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The lead of this article begins with: Edinburgh Castle is a fortress which dominates the skyline of the city of Edinburgh, Scotland, from its position atop the volcanic Castle Rock. However the lead image that is currently there does little to support these statements and has some technical issues. Despite this it is stilll quite a nice capture but shows only a small portion of the castle in isolation. Perhaps better suited to the body of the article. I had suggested a recent image I had taken as it was hi-res, technically sound and highlighted (literally and figuratively) that the castle dominates the city skyline. It was reverted upon inclusion in the article for not what i would consider good reason. To avoid any hint of an edit war, I am submitting the two images for community consideration.
What are the community's thoughts on this change? Saffron Blaze ( talk) 23:46, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
Here's a photograph that shows the approach to the Castle over the Esplanade. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Edinburgh_Castle_and_the_Esplanade.JPG I wouldn't claim it's "a really good shot", but it has documentary value. Kim Traynor 18:49, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
This is fast becoming a silly page. Here we are discussing the best image to lead into the subject, while meantime Nab82ba has posted a pic in the 2nd position, which is very good but almost a duplicate of the picture by Macographer that follows. Nab82ba's is as much a photo of the fountain as the castle; and I find the fountain distracts from the main subject. Its main virtue is that it is a closer view. I suggest someone replace the new posting with a more appropriate overview image and move Nab82ba's to the position currently occupied by the Mactographer image, which already appears on the Hills In Edinburgh page. I won't do the substitution myself as I have had a recent disagreement with Saffron Blaze about the nature of the photo that should appear here - see User talk:Saffron Blaze. As a relatively new kid on the block myself, I would defer to Jonathan's judgement, as he has had a longer experience with the page, and I think he should choose an image he deems appropriate from the WikiCommons archive. Kim Traynor 12:31, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
I think we are at the point that good discussion has gone on but no consensus has been achieved other than perhaps we would all prefer something better than anything offered so far. I am content to leave whatever is there now as the alternatives are not spectacular. Hopefully Kim gets a fine day and some free time:) Saffron Blaze ( talk) 18:27, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
Kim, you should move your new image to the lead! I'll leave it to you though. Well done. Saffron Blaze ( talk) 20:25, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
Sorry guys I didn't realise there was an ongoing discussion in regards to the lead image, I uploaded the current one (The one from Princes Street Gardens, I took it last year). I hope that people are ok with it. If not please feel free to drop me a wee line as I am open in regards to changing it. Again sorry to jump the gun by putting it up there! BrotherDarksoul ( talk) 22:39, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
I am suprised to read here that Edward I removed the Scottish national records from the castle when negotiating a successor to Alexander III. I don't know the source being cited, so I don't know on what evidence the claim is based. I do know that Edward met the Scottish nobles at Norham on the border. I was under the impression, though I can't recall where I read it, that the archive was removed after the dethronement of Balliol and Edward's occupation of Scotland. That strikes me as inherently more likely unless he had removed the records, e.g. land charters, beforehand so that his lawyers could examine the relative wealth of the Scottish nobles. If anyone has evidence in print that disagrees with the Salter reference and supports the other contention, I would suggest that the reference be changed. Kim Traynor 23:35, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
While not wishing to detract from what probably constitutes the greatest single feat of bravery in the first War of Independence, I would question the ready acceptance of the story from Barbour's Brus that suggests Randolph and his men scaled the northern face of the Castle Rock. That is a probably a dramatic fiction to heighten the achievement, rather than historical fact. William Francis was a soldier who was said to know a way to sneak in and out of the castle to visit his girfriend in the burgh. Common sense suggests that he probably knew a pathway along the side of the rock that circumvented whatever gatehouse arrangement existed at the time. It's hard to imagine him descending and ascending the northern rockface, unless the girl's charms were exceptional. The idea that Randolph and his men would start at ground level (tactically a very dangerous position to put themselves in), climb the northern face of the rock and still have enough energy to scale the walls and defeat the garrison, places them in the league of supermen of a kind only encountered in legend and comics. The taking of the castle was certainly a remarkable accomplishment, but I think the page should be careful how it describes this incident. The word 'reputedly' springs to mind. Kim Traynor 23:54, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
Comment "unless the girl's charms were exceptional"
The lead sentence is not neutral, in so far that it says the castle "dominates" the Edinburgh city skyline. This is a matter of opinion, dependant on your thoughts on what constitutes "dominating", and also what constitutes Edinburgh city. Personally I can think of lots of places I consider Edinburgh where it's not even visible on the skyline, far less dominating. Saffron Blaze thinks that it dominates "By any objective measure", but I can't think of any objective measurement for "dominating", which is just the problem you get with POV descriptions such as this.
Certainly it is a prominent feature. But "dominates" is a matter of opinion that shouldn't appear in the lead of an article. -- Escape Orbit (Talk) 16:23, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
NPOV is not a requirement to make everything bland. Saying Edinburgh Castle is a feature of the skyline of Edinburgh is like saying the CN Tower is a feature of the Toronto skyline. While both statements are essentially true they are not very enlightening to the reader. If you look at the definitions of "dominate" and "feature" you could surmise that many structures are features of both those skylines but only a very few could be considered to dominate. It seems clear to me that Edinburgh Castle meets the definition of dominates quite well. UNESCO in their description of Edinburgh as a World Heritage Site explicitly states Edinburgh is "dominated by a medieval fortress". This is only one of many verifiable references that describe the castle as such and most make reference specifically to the skyline. I am not convinced sourcing is a requirement since the dominance of this feature is self-evident is so many of the images of the Edinburgh skyline. At a minimum "dominates" is a better descriptor than "feature" as it provides useful factual information. It came across to me as an assertion of fact which would generally be uncontested. Google the sentence "What dominates the skyline of Edinburgh?" for fun. I think you will see my point about uncontested. Saffron Blaze ( talk) 18:23, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
Saffron Blaze ( talk) 19:17, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
Couldn't we settle for the first sentence being: "Edinburgh Castle is a fortress which dominates the centre of the city of Edinburgh, Scotland, from its position atop the volcanic Castle Rock." I can't see much wrong with that as plain English. It's in the centre and if you also happen to be there it certainly seems to be a dominating presence. Kim Traynor 22:54, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
"Edinburgh Castle is a medieval fortress whose position atop the volcanic Castle Rock continues to give it a dominant presence on the skyline of Edinburgh City." Is medieval still correct despite what UNESCO said? Saffron Blaze ( talk) 14:38, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
The attempt made by myelf was I can assure you Sir to connect both the history of the town and that of a specific element within it (the 'Castle Hill' and as by myself suggested resulting architecture of many sorts) with the creation of the 'United Kingdom' together with that of Soviet Union and the related history over a period of years including of course what were to be called 'world wars'.
The essential feature was therefore an attempt to at least indicate what for my own part I believe can be shown to be specific architectural intentions relating to the extraordinary feature which still exists throughout the world and known as having existed over an indefinite period of centuries, namely the volcanoes and their strange relationship with what is below and what is above, and therefore in this apparently purely geographical sense with human religion and 'renaissance'.
Unfortunately of course this has never been officially recognized for whatever reason at least so far as I am aware, but if you pay attention you should I suggest find it confirmed within the Shrine of the Scottish National War Memorial and elsewhere within that Memorial.
I do not know what the answer is, it is possible that attempting to indicate at least in outline this sort of feature within this article was indeed not the answer, as you say in connection with the removal of the text.
Whoever reads this Talk Page (and no doubt there will not be a great many in comparison with those who read the article!) should perhaps however be aware that this attempt was made and incidentally perhaps also bear in mind that both the Scottish National War Memorial and the war memorial in Newcastle to which reference was made were opened in the 1920s by the Prince of Wales, with the entire Monarchy involved in the opening of the Scottish National War Memorial on the anniversary of Victory Day in France 14 July in 1919, this date being also incidentally directly connected with both the French revolution and the 1870 Franco-Prussian war and therefore hardly a coincidence.
Thanks again for saving everybody the trouble of getting involved in such extremely complicated issues. It seems I am the only one, and why should I bother if nobody else wants to do so, I wonder? War and peace, including in this particular case the creation of the 'United Kingdom', remain I think, so far as I am concerned, the mystery. Unfortunately the government does nothing whatsoever to resolve it. Likewise, in the otherwise outstanding article on peace there is no reference to Edinburgh for the time being (2012), but if Scotland ever returns to independance the future in general must remain uncertain (it will perhaps remain forever a mystery). Peter Judge — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.30.151.86 ( talk) 20:19, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
The lead image is a complete technical failure. The image is worse than bad. It lacks clear detail, has areas that are completely blown and colours that are better left inside a kaleidoscope. How has it survived in place so long? Regardless, find something better such as Kim's image that follows.
As an aside. It would be useful if all the hard pixel sizes were removed to be in accordance with WP:MOS for images. Saffron Blaze ( talk) 19:10, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
OK, lets sort this out:
My first choice would be Option 2 for the lead, with 1 or 3 used in the section on the rock. Any advance? Thanks, Jonathan Oldenbuck ( talk) 13:05, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
What a great article! I really enjoyed reading it. Thanks to those who wrote it. -- John ( talk) 05:39, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
There seems to be some recent disagreement over who 'owns' Edinburgh Castle.
As far as I am aware there are three major stakeholders, the MOD who have a number of servicemen/woman stationed there, Historic Scotland who run and look after the tourist side of the castle, and 'Scottish Ministers' who have an unknown input. This webpage was cited but leads no where.
Can someone clarify the situation? NotMiserable ( talk) 12:20, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
I have no axe to grind on this particular issue, but the assertions made here about the Crown owning the Castle are not backed with references. However, ownership by Scottish Ministers is. I'm not going to change the text again at this point, but I would ask that references supporting Crown ownership are provided. When these are, we can hopefully reach a fully informed consensus. Whether that be for the Crown, Scottish Ministers, or a form of words reflecting uncertainty over ownership, is fine by me. Thanks. Dalliance ( talk) 12:01, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
As per Dalliance, the only clearly-stated references found so far say that "Scottish Ministers own Edinburgh Castle", [1] and "the Scottish Government who own Edinburgh Castle". [2] The issue has been discussed by MSPs, see the links here. There is no dispute that the Scottish Ministers/Scottish Government (essentially the same thing) own the castle. It isn't "managed by the Scottish Government", it is managed by Historic Scotland. As Hchc says, the Scottish Government represents the Crown, but there are no references stating that "Edinburgh Castle is owned by the Crown". The Crown Estate owns part of Princes Street Gardens, but not the castle, so it is not correct to describe the castle as " Crown land" or similar. The article should state that the castle is owned by the Scottish Government, unless references are provided to show otherwise. I agree this is all highly academic, but WP needs to be verifiable, not based on editors' speculations. Thanks, Jonathan Oldenbuck ( talk) 13:07, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
The Esplanade of Edinburgh Castle, in Scotland, legally is part of Nova Scotia in Canada. Charles I declared it to be Nova Scotia territory so that Nova Scotian baronets might receive their lands there. The decree has never been revoked. Source: Facts About Scotland http://www.rampantscotland.com/didyouknow.htm and http://newscotland1398.ca/hist/nshistory01.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.157.53.111 ( talk) 19:49, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
Strikes me it would be quite easy to take this to Good Article status. Any interest among regular editors? -- MarchOrDie ( talk) 20:46, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
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Reviewer: Ritchie333 ( talk · contribs) 13:44, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
I will review.
All the issues above are minor, in my view, and easy to resolve, so I am putting the review On Hold. Most of the comments are relating to making better image captions or to clarify something that is linked so the reader isn't obliged to click on it to further their understanding. Some parts of the article are very well written and although I have checked the article carefully, I am having difficulty finding anything else to comment on and criticize. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 17:41, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
I'm all for Scotch pride but, even leaving aside the fact that "Harry Potter" (o_O) confused a plural genitive with an adjective, it is dubious to the point of WP:FRINGE/ POV that this Maiden Castle out of all the other ones derived its name from its supposedly unvanquished reputation into distant antiquity. Leaving that as the conclusion of the paragraph with an opining "simply" gives the dubious proposition WP:UNDUE status, particularly when it seems much more likely all these Iron Age sites simply preserve some Brittonic name ending with -dun ("rock"/"fortress"). I just happened to find this 19th century source to that effect but surely someone has mentioned this more recently. In any case, we shouldn't be substituting new touristy legends for the old religious ones. — LlywelynII 21:11, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
Would it not be appropriate to make this very informative plan larger as it is hard to see at it's current size. If it were to be centred and doubled in size with the key to the side or below, it would be far more usable.-- Nozzer71 ( talk) 12:36, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
I've amended the Garrison Commander, which previously showed Maj Gen (retd) Mike Riddell-Webster. He is the Governor of Edinburgh Castle, not to be confused with the military position of Garrison Commander. The current Comd is Lt Col Douglas J Mackay. // Steve 82.39.77.162 ( talk) 23:22, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
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This article was very interesting. In particular, the history section is very detailed and documented. I enjoyed reading it and I have a few comments.
1. "Meanwhile, the royal family began to stay more frequently at the Abbey of Holyrood".
Is it really possible that a royal family would stay inside an abbey?
2. "Prior to the Lang Siege, the tower was recorded as being 59 feet (18 m) high, and the remaining portions stand up to 49 feet (15 m) from the rock."
A photo should be added for illustration purposes.
3. "Edinburgh Castle remains the most popular paid visitor attraction in Scotland, with over 1.4 million visitors in 2013."
This should be updated as necessary.
ICE77 ( talk) 06:26, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
Hello! This is to let editors know that File:Edinburgh Castle from Grass Market.jpg, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for January 25, 2023. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2023-01-25. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 7.9% of all FPs 21:39, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
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Edinburgh Castle is a castle in Edinburgh, Scotland. It stands on Castle Rock, which has been occupied by humans since at least the Iron Age. Serving as a royal residence for the Kingdom of Scotland from the 12th century or earlier until 1633, Edinburgh Castle was involved in many historical conflicts from the Wars of Scottish Independence in the 14th century to the Jacobite rising of 1745. Few of the present buildings pre-date the Lang Siege of the 16th century when the medieval defences were largely destroyed by artillery bombardment. The most notable exceptions are St Margaret's Chapel (which dates from the early 12th century and is regarded as the oldest building in Edinburgh), the Royal Palace, and the early-16th-century Great Hall. The castle also houses the Scottish regalia, known as the Honours of Scotland, and is the site of the Scottish National War Memorial and the National War Museum. Some of the castle buildings house regimental museums that contribute to its presentation as a tourist attraction. This image shows a view of Edinburgh Castle from the nearby Grassmarket, taken by the Scottish photographer George Washington Wilson between 1865 and 1885. Photograph credit: George Washington Wilson; restored by Adam Cuerden
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The lead of this article begins with: Edinburgh Castle is a fortress which dominates the skyline of the city of Edinburgh, Scotland, from its position atop the volcanic Castle Rock. However the lead image that is currently there does little to support these statements and has some technical issues. Despite this it is stilll quite a nice capture but shows only a small portion of the castle in isolation. Perhaps better suited to the body of the article. I had suggested a recent image I had taken as it was hi-res, technically sound and highlighted (literally and figuratively) that the castle dominates the city skyline. It was reverted upon inclusion in the article for not what i would consider good reason. To avoid any hint of an edit war, I am submitting the two images for community consideration.
What are the community's thoughts on this change? Saffron Blaze ( talk) 23:46, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
Here's a photograph that shows the approach to the Castle over the Esplanade. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Edinburgh_Castle_and_the_Esplanade.JPG I wouldn't claim it's "a really good shot", but it has documentary value. Kim Traynor 18:49, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
This is fast becoming a silly page. Here we are discussing the best image to lead into the subject, while meantime Nab82ba has posted a pic in the 2nd position, which is very good but almost a duplicate of the picture by Macographer that follows. Nab82ba's is as much a photo of the fountain as the castle; and I find the fountain distracts from the main subject. Its main virtue is that it is a closer view. I suggest someone replace the new posting with a more appropriate overview image and move Nab82ba's to the position currently occupied by the Mactographer image, which already appears on the Hills In Edinburgh page. I won't do the substitution myself as I have had a recent disagreement with Saffron Blaze about the nature of the photo that should appear here - see User talk:Saffron Blaze. As a relatively new kid on the block myself, I would defer to Jonathan's judgement, as he has had a longer experience with the page, and I think he should choose an image he deems appropriate from the WikiCommons archive. Kim Traynor 12:31, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
I think we are at the point that good discussion has gone on but no consensus has been achieved other than perhaps we would all prefer something better than anything offered so far. I am content to leave whatever is there now as the alternatives are not spectacular. Hopefully Kim gets a fine day and some free time:) Saffron Blaze ( talk) 18:27, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
Kim, you should move your new image to the lead! I'll leave it to you though. Well done. Saffron Blaze ( talk) 20:25, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
Sorry guys I didn't realise there was an ongoing discussion in regards to the lead image, I uploaded the current one (The one from Princes Street Gardens, I took it last year). I hope that people are ok with it. If not please feel free to drop me a wee line as I am open in regards to changing it. Again sorry to jump the gun by putting it up there! BrotherDarksoul ( talk) 22:39, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
I am suprised to read here that Edward I removed the Scottish national records from the castle when negotiating a successor to Alexander III. I don't know the source being cited, so I don't know on what evidence the claim is based. I do know that Edward met the Scottish nobles at Norham on the border. I was under the impression, though I can't recall where I read it, that the archive was removed after the dethronement of Balliol and Edward's occupation of Scotland. That strikes me as inherently more likely unless he had removed the records, e.g. land charters, beforehand so that his lawyers could examine the relative wealth of the Scottish nobles. If anyone has evidence in print that disagrees with the Salter reference and supports the other contention, I would suggest that the reference be changed. Kim Traynor 23:35, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
While not wishing to detract from what probably constitutes the greatest single feat of bravery in the first War of Independence, I would question the ready acceptance of the story from Barbour's Brus that suggests Randolph and his men scaled the northern face of the Castle Rock. That is a probably a dramatic fiction to heighten the achievement, rather than historical fact. William Francis was a soldier who was said to know a way to sneak in and out of the castle to visit his girfriend in the burgh. Common sense suggests that he probably knew a pathway along the side of the rock that circumvented whatever gatehouse arrangement existed at the time. It's hard to imagine him descending and ascending the northern rockface, unless the girl's charms were exceptional. The idea that Randolph and his men would start at ground level (tactically a very dangerous position to put themselves in), climb the northern face of the rock and still have enough energy to scale the walls and defeat the garrison, places them in the league of supermen of a kind only encountered in legend and comics. The taking of the castle was certainly a remarkable accomplishment, but I think the page should be careful how it describes this incident. The word 'reputedly' springs to mind. Kim Traynor 23:54, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
Comment "unless the girl's charms were exceptional"
The lead sentence is not neutral, in so far that it says the castle "dominates" the Edinburgh city skyline. This is a matter of opinion, dependant on your thoughts on what constitutes "dominating", and also what constitutes Edinburgh city. Personally I can think of lots of places I consider Edinburgh where it's not even visible on the skyline, far less dominating. Saffron Blaze thinks that it dominates "By any objective measure", but I can't think of any objective measurement for "dominating", which is just the problem you get with POV descriptions such as this.
Certainly it is a prominent feature. But "dominates" is a matter of opinion that shouldn't appear in the lead of an article. -- Escape Orbit (Talk) 16:23, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
NPOV is not a requirement to make everything bland. Saying Edinburgh Castle is a feature of the skyline of Edinburgh is like saying the CN Tower is a feature of the Toronto skyline. While both statements are essentially true they are not very enlightening to the reader. If you look at the definitions of "dominate" and "feature" you could surmise that many structures are features of both those skylines but only a very few could be considered to dominate. It seems clear to me that Edinburgh Castle meets the definition of dominates quite well. UNESCO in their description of Edinburgh as a World Heritage Site explicitly states Edinburgh is "dominated by a medieval fortress". This is only one of many verifiable references that describe the castle as such and most make reference specifically to the skyline. I am not convinced sourcing is a requirement since the dominance of this feature is self-evident is so many of the images of the Edinburgh skyline. At a minimum "dominates" is a better descriptor than "feature" as it provides useful factual information. It came across to me as an assertion of fact which would generally be uncontested. Google the sentence "What dominates the skyline of Edinburgh?" for fun. I think you will see my point about uncontested. Saffron Blaze ( talk) 18:23, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
Saffron Blaze ( talk) 19:17, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
Couldn't we settle for the first sentence being: "Edinburgh Castle is a fortress which dominates the centre of the city of Edinburgh, Scotland, from its position atop the volcanic Castle Rock." I can't see much wrong with that as plain English. It's in the centre and if you also happen to be there it certainly seems to be a dominating presence. Kim Traynor 22:54, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
"Edinburgh Castle is a medieval fortress whose position atop the volcanic Castle Rock continues to give it a dominant presence on the skyline of Edinburgh City." Is medieval still correct despite what UNESCO said? Saffron Blaze ( talk) 14:38, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
The attempt made by myelf was I can assure you Sir to connect both the history of the town and that of a specific element within it (the 'Castle Hill' and as by myself suggested resulting architecture of many sorts) with the creation of the 'United Kingdom' together with that of Soviet Union and the related history over a period of years including of course what were to be called 'world wars'.
The essential feature was therefore an attempt to at least indicate what for my own part I believe can be shown to be specific architectural intentions relating to the extraordinary feature which still exists throughout the world and known as having existed over an indefinite period of centuries, namely the volcanoes and their strange relationship with what is below and what is above, and therefore in this apparently purely geographical sense with human religion and 'renaissance'.
Unfortunately of course this has never been officially recognized for whatever reason at least so far as I am aware, but if you pay attention you should I suggest find it confirmed within the Shrine of the Scottish National War Memorial and elsewhere within that Memorial.
I do not know what the answer is, it is possible that attempting to indicate at least in outline this sort of feature within this article was indeed not the answer, as you say in connection with the removal of the text.
Whoever reads this Talk Page (and no doubt there will not be a great many in comparison with those who read the article!) should perhaps however be aware that this attempt was made and incidentally perhaps also bear in mind that both the Scottish National War Memorial and the war memorial in Newcastle to which reference was made were opened in the 1920s by the Prince of Wales, with the entire Monarchy involved in the opening of the Scottish National War Memorial on the anniversary of Victory Day in France 14 July in 1919, this date being also incidentally directly connected with both the French revolution and the 1870 Franco-Prussian war and therefore hardly a coincidence.
Thanks again for saving everybody the trouble of getting involved in such extremely complicated issues. It seems I am the only one, and why should I bother if nobody else wants to do so, I wonder? War and peace, including in this particular case the creation of the 'United Kingdom', remain I think, so far as I am concerned, the mystery. Unfortunately the government does nothing whatsoever to resolve it. Likewise, in the otherwise outstanding article on peace there is no reference to Edinburgh for the time being (2012), but if Scotland ever returns to independance the future in general must remain uncertain (it will perhaps remain forever a mystery). Peter Judge — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.30.151.86 ( talk) 20:19, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
The lead image is a complete technical failure. The image is worse than bad. It lacks clear detail, has areas that are completely blown and colours that are better left inside a kaleidoscope. How has it survived in place so long? Regardless, find something better such as Kim's image that follows.
As an aside. It would be useful if all the hard pixel sizes were removed to be in accordance with WP:MOS for images. Saffron Blaze ( talk) 19:10, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
OK, lets sort this out:
My first choice would be Option 2 for the lead, with 1 or 3 used in the section on the rock. Any advance? Thanks, Jonathan Oldenbuck ( talk) 13:05, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
What a great article! I really enjoyed reading it. Thanks to those who wrote it. -- John ( talk) 05:39, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
There seems to be some recent disagreement over who 'owns' Edinburgh Castle.
As far as I am aware there are three major stakeholders, the MOD who have a number of servicemen/woman stationed there, Historic Scotland who run and look after the tourist side of the castle, and 'Scottish Ministers' who have an unknown input. This webpage was cited but leads no where.
Can someone clarify the situation? NotMiserable ( talk) 12:20, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
I have no axe to grind on this particular issue, but the assertions made here about the Crown owning the Castle are not backed with references. However, ownership by Scottish Ministers is. I'm not going to change the text again at this point, but I would ask that references supporting Crown ownership are provided. When these are, we can hopefully reach a fully informed consensus. Whether that be for the Crown, Scottish Ministers, or a form of words reflecting uncertainty over ownership, is fine by me. Thanks. Dalliance ( talk) 12:01, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
As per Dalliance, the only clearly-stated references found so far say that "Scottish Ministers own Edinburgh Castle", [1] and "the Scottish Government who own Edinburgh Castle". [2] The issue has been discussed by MSPs, see the links here. There is no dispute that the Scottish Ministers/Scottish Government (essentially the same thing) own the castle. It isn't "managed by the Scottish Government", it is managed by Historic Scotland. As Hchc says, the Scottish Government represents the Crown, but there are no references stating that "Edinburgh Castle is owned by the Crown". The Crown Estate owns part of Princes Street Gardens, but not the castle, so it is not correct to describe the castle as " Crown land" or similar. The article should state that the castle is owned by the Scottish Government, unless references are provided to show otherwise. I agree this is all highly academic, but WP needs to be verifiable, not based on editors' speculations. Thanks, Jonathan Oldenbuck ( talk) 13:07, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
The Esplanade of Edinburgh Castle, in Scotland, legally is part of Nova Scotia in Canada. Charles I declared it to be Nova Scotia territory so that Nova Scotian baronets might receive their lands there. The decree has never been revoked. Source: Facts About Scotland http://www.rampantscotland.com/didyouknow.htm and http://newscotland1398.ca/hist/nshistory01.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.157.53.111 ( talk) 19:49, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
Strikes me it would be quite easy to take this to Good Article status. Any interest among regular editors? -- MarchOrDie ( talk) 20:46, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
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Reviewer: Ritchie333 ( talk · contribs) 13:44, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
I will review.
All the issues above are minor, in my view, and easy to resolve, so I am putting the review On Hold. Most of the comments are relating to making better image captions or to clarify something that is linked so the reader isn't obliged to click on it to further their understanding. Some parts of the article are very well written and although I have checked the article carefully, I am having difficulty finding anything else to comment on and criticize. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 17:41, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
I'm all for Scotch pride but, even leaving aside the fact that "Harry Potter" (o_O) confused a plural genitive with an adjective, it is dubious to the point of WP:FRINGE/ POV that this Maiden Castle out of all the other ones derived its name from its supposedly unvanquished reputation into distant antiquity. Leaving that as the conclusion of the paragraph with an opining "simply" gives the dubious proposition WP:UNDUE status, particularly when it seems much more likely all these Iron Age sites simply preserve some Brittonic name ending with -dun ("rock"/"fortress"). I just happened to find this 19th century source to that effect but surely someone has mentioned this more recently. In any case, we shouldn't be substituting new touristy legends for the old religious ones. — LlywelynII 21:11, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
Would it not be appropriate to make this very informative plan larger as it is hard to see at it's current size. If it were to be centred and doubled in size with the key to the side or below, it would be far more usable.-- Nozzer71 ( talk) 12:36, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
I've amended the Garrison Commander, which previously showed Maj Gen (retd) Mike Riddell-Webster. He is the Governor of Edinburgh Castle, not to be confused with the military position of Garrison Commander. The current Comd is Lt Col Douglas J Mackay. // Steve 82.39.77.162 ( talk) 23:22, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
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This article was very interesting. In particular, the history section is very detailed and documented. I enjoyed reading it and I have a few comments.
1. "Meanwhile, the royal family began to stay more frequently at the Abbey of Holyrood".
Is it really possible that a royal family would stay inside an abbey?
2. "Prior to the Lang Siege, the tower was recorded as being 59 feet (18 m) high, and the remaining portions stand up to 49 feet (15 m) from the rock."
A photo should be added for illustration purposes.
3. "Edinburgh Castle remains the most popular paid visitor attraction in Scotland, with over 1.4 million visitors in 2013."
This should be updated as necessary.
ICE77 ( talk) 06:26, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
Hello! This is to let editors know that File:Edinburgh Castle from Grass Market.jpg, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for January 25, 2023. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2023-01-25. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 7.9% of all FPs 21:39, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
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Edinburgh Castle is a castle in Edinburgh, Scotland. It stands on Castle Rock, which has been occupied by humans since at least the Iron Age. Serving as a royal residence for the Kingdom of Scotland from the 12th century or earlier until 1633, Edinburgh Castle was involved in many historical conflicts from the Wars of Scottish Independence in the 14th century to the Jacobite rising of 1745. Few of the present buildings pre-date the Lang Siege of the 16th century when the medieval defences were largely destroyed by artillery bombardment. The most notable exceptions are St Margaret's Chapel (which dates from the early 12th century and is regarded as the oldest building in Edinburgh), the Royal Palace, and the early-16th-century Great Hall. The castle also houses the Scottish regalia, known as the Honours of Scotland, and is the site of the Scottish National War Memorial and the National War Museum. Some of the castle buildings house regimental museums that contribute to its presentation as a tourist attraction. This image shows a view of Edinburgh Castle from the nearby Grassmarket, taken by the Scottish photographer George Washington Wilson between 1865 and 1885. Photograph credit: George Washington Wilson; restored by Adam Cuerden
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