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The article, as is, needs some heavy copy editing. It is far too long, with many unneccessary details. Unfortunately, there are far too few details in the character history section. Important events such as the birth of Carnage and the other symbiote spawn are missing.
The section on the creator controversy is only tangentially relevent to the character information and would be much more suited for a separate article. There are already articles in existence about the Spider-Man movies, so we don't need to discuss them in depth here. Etc.-- 66.188.137.248 03:27, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
The creator controversy does go on a tangent from the article, but I don't think there's enough to justify it being a separate article, unless there is more to add to the story. If more sources and more information can be provided, and some organization of the section, then I think having a separate article would be a good idea.-- Undertow87 23:39, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
TOO LONG!!!! What the!!! Why, why why, what the heck happened!!?? This Wikipedia website is starting to SUCK!! This article was fine the way it is. It´s good there is a lot of info. A few people might want to read (what WAS here) this so that, incase they haven´t read the comics, they can read THIS!!! Hybrid 2 17:58, 9 November 2006 (UTC)Hybrid 2
Thankyou. It was great as it was, had a lot of info I'd personally gone away and referenced for other people. I lose net access for a few weeks and the main info has been butchered. Darkwarriorblake 18:03, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
You know the Ultimate Venom article? Before it was combined with the Venom article? Do you think you could bring the Ultimate Venom article back, but combined with the Venom Article? Or you can make it like how you make Wolverine, you know? There is a section with Ultimate Wolverine but a link leads to a seperate article. Can you do the same with Ultimate Venom please? If you do I'll stop changing the Ultimate Venom, Rhino pages. Answer Below As Soon As Possible.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.77.167.58 ( talk • contribs) 13:13, August 21, 2006
Until then, why can't you bring back what was deleted, like the ultimate wolverine? Then you can add more info later? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.77.167.58 ( talk • contribs) 15:05, August 21, 2006
It's pretty simple, really. The kid just wants Ultimate characters to have SHBs. Ultimate Namor, #Ultimate Deadpool|Ultimate Deadpool and Ultimate Giant-Man among others. Now, it's likely a universal decision that affects Ultimate character sections across the board needs to be reached, so, Kid GIPU, I recommend you take this up with the comics project. Oh and sign your comments.
Stop changing my corrections. Now maybe I haven't put enought info on Ultimate Venom, Carnage, and Rhino, but instead of deleting my corrections, add stuff I haven't added. I think wikipedia works better if most of these articles are as precise as possible.
Newt ΨΦ, are you the one who deleted the Ultimate Venom article and combined it with the Venom article?
First of all, how do you sign your comments? Second of all, do you agree that we should or shouldn't delete the ultimate articles? I say we shouldn't.
Four Villains, including Sandman, Venom, Goblin, and someone else. Avi Arad said that. -- Kozmik Pariah 22:31, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Most every source says that the first appearance of Venom is Amazing #299. But the info box on the Venom (Eddie Brock) page says that it's #298, and I have heard that a few other places also. The page here shows the frame from 299 which to my knowledge was the first real appearance. What happened in 298? Andrewdoane 13:36, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
It is perhaps not coincidental that this dispute arose at a time when artists such as McFarlane and Larsen were enjoying a great deal of popularity and clout with readers, and exploiting their popularity by publishing creator-owned books with their new company, Image Comics, and it is possible that this issue was a subtext of the greater debate over the importance of writers versus artists that was being waged in the industry at the time.
This seems grossly inadequate. The only reason John Bryne is involved in this discussion at all is that there was a vicious Bryne/McFarlane feud at the time. I'm starting to wish I kept issues of Wizard from the early 90s, but John Byrne would write angry responses to McFarlane's column in Wizard. McFarlane would put thinly veiled jabs at Bryne in the note from the author section of Spawn. It's irresponsible to bring Bryne into the discussion at all without explaining the situation.
I'm pretty sure of four out of the five names of Venom's children. Scream, Riot, Lasher, and Shriek, even though Shriek is already the name of another villian. I'm not sure about the black symbiote that looks like Venom. His human name is supposedly Carl, yet the symbiote name might be Phage or Hybrid or something else. Illusionz
The children of Venom I am familiar with are Carnage, Phage, Hybrid, Lasher Shriker, and Riot. Josh C.
I remember reading in the Earth X and Universe X series that in that future, Venom has joined with Peter Parker's daughter, May Parker, and they have become a crimefighter Venom. I believe this is an alternative-timeline future, but it seems important enough that it could deserve it's own section under "Other Versions of Venom". Anyone who knows this topic better than I want to tackle it?
Before, this idea was knocked out as "vandalism" or being "stupid." However, whether it was stupid or not, it was still a major feature of the character's development.
The drug that the symbiote needed was phenethylamine, which is a real chemical really found in both animals (though I haven't done research to see if it was speicifically in brain tissue) and in chocolate. It's quite common, actually, which is a bend in the reality for Marvel.
However, since this particular quirk was an issue for all the miniseries appearances of Venom after The Hunger, (in Lethal Protector he is given chocolate by the government as part of the arrangement), it seems a bit ignorant and/or petty to remove it from the front wiki.
Just my two bits.
I was talking it out with SoM (the remover) and he says it lacked sources. I've since found numerous people confirming the Hunger miniseries fact, and thing it can be added back now, maybe with the provision that it says that the point rarely appeared afterwards.
This is not a major feature of Venom. It was brought up once only during The Hunger, addressed (he's fine as long he eats chocolate) and hasn't been used again. It's not pivotal, and its exclusion wouldn not be missed. QuestionMark 20:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone else see the irony in this statement (regarding IMDb listing Topher Grace as Venom in Spiderman 3):
...this cannot be taken as fact since IMDB is a free-access site that can be edited by various sources.
-- Don Don 06:39, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
In Mark Millar's 'Venomous' arc Angelo Fortunato did indeed possess the Venom suit before being splattered all over the street.
And while I hadn't read the Venom series, I do know that Venom did possess Wolverine. 'Half of Canada' I'm not so sure on.
IF Venom has ALL the powers of Spider-Man, then he does have a healing factor. Peter Parker has always been able to heal fast. He's no Wolverine, but he's had broken bones heal in just a few days. So IF (notice the if) Eddie has all the same powers, then he does. Just wanting to mention that. Thanos6 21:46, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Tell me then is Venom fast? Is he strong? If Venom is only Eddie Brock and not the symbiote can I guess you can only consider him of normal human speed and strength. Venom is the combined sum of Brock and the symbiote. Since the coustume does have a healing factor then Venom does too. If Venom's bio went by what only Eddie had then he would just be a normal human. Do you even read Venom comics?
Didn't Venom use the symbiote to heal a wound on his ex-wife? And if he used the symbiote to perform surgery on himself to get a bomb out of his chest, I think it's safe to say the symbiote bestows a signifcant healing factor on its host if it can do that.
Learn how to sign your posts!!! 203.14.180.97 10:19, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
User:24.228.52.76 is taking things out of context in the powers and abilities section. Hulk and Juggeruant were not hurt by Venom's punches, and Superman was very weak when he faught Venom. I also need proof the Venom/Superman is canon. T-1000 05:30, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
"Juggernaut was knocked around like a toy in The Madness 2 and 3 meaning Venom is a alot stronger than 11 ton range. He also almost killed Sandman who is at the 85 class and almost killed Thing. Superman was not weakend in the comic. It never said or even hinted at that. Fans came up with that for an explanation. Hulk was not hurt by Venom but Venom was not hurt by his punches either until his sonic clap.
The symbiote bonds to Eddie and they become one. They share all their combined powers. It can be said if Venom does not have a healing factor then he only has normal human speed and strength since that too is from the symbiote. The point is still the same, the symbiote does have a healing factore of its own. Once bonded to Eddie then he has it too. He seems to not know that Venom is the combined entities of Eddie Brock and the symbiote. Juggeruant is not immune to all physical damage since there are comics that show he has taken damage from various beings ranging from Hulk to Apocalyspse. Also it does not matter if he is since I mentioned Venom was strong enough to have an affact on Juggy. He still knocked him around like a toy. Moving him alone is a big accomplishment. All marvel/dc crossovers are canon if the comic takes place in two seprate universes. Last durability or not it takes great strenght to face the Hulk and lets not forget Venom almost killed the Thing and Sandman who are both in the 85-90 ton range. The point of all this is that Venom has shown greater strength than his bio.
Venom bite the Sandman. This had nothing to do with strength. Same with the Thing. Fighting a Super strong guy does not make you super strong. It's simple logic. Wolverine has faught the Hulk to a standstill, yet he is not super strong.
Non of the comic crossovers are canon except JLA/Avengers. Certainly not Marvel vs. DC and all access.
People with healing factors healing themselves. The symbiote is healing the host. See the difference?
Also, the stuff you inserted clearly violates NPOV, hence it is to be removed. T-1000 03:48, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Try reading Venom the Madness 2 and 3 not just 1 to support your argument. Juggy got bitched slapped all around. Venom fought Sandman more that once. That was their third fight. I guess you know that since you appear to be a big Venom fan. The first time Venom went punch for punch with him and beat him down back in the early nineties. All Access is considered canon because it acknowledges that DC and Marvel are two seperate universes. Check that out for yourself. NPOV? What is that. How strong is She-Hulk? He also tossed her around too like she was nothing. Venom also has lifted a large tank. Do you know how many tons a small tank is let alone a large one? Now for the healing factor. The symbiote has one. Venom has one too because Venom is the combination of Eddie and the symbiote. Venom is the total of them two and not just Brock. You seemed to have forgotten that when I told you last. Why is that?
MikeJ9919 04:23, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
That comic he copied was in the madness one not 2 or 3.
Just read the Madness 2 and 3 for proof. Any comic store will have it.
Being asked to weight in on this discussion, I have this to say: No series published more than five years ago accurately portrays what current writers or editors will consider the Venom symbiote's strength range. Not until the Marvel Handbook gets to Venom will we have an official listing, and even then, this is with the idea that individual writers will stick by these standards and not have grossly out of proportion performance levels in stories. Comic book heroes are notorious for not being consistent having changed hands from so many writers (see the comparison between pre-Crisis Superman and post-Crisis Superman currently happening in Infinite Crisis). At best, we can state that Venom has significant strength, superior to Spider-Man's, and what fluxuations can be charted (like taking on the Juggernaut). We can't say anything that happened in any one series or comic appearance is a constant of the character, but we can compare power differences in publishing history to inform the reader. Cybertooth85 02:05, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
I like it
I've asked User:24.228.52.76 not to revert through my copyediting and to discuss his issues with the substantive text on the Talk page before reimplementing it. He ignored this request and reverted with no discussion on the Talk page, with me, or (as far as I know) with T-1000. He has also included no explanation in his edit summaries. I propose a policy of reverting similar changes on sight unless some discussion is attempted. Please note I have no knowledge of the dispute nor interest in it beyond the fact that User:24.228.52.76 reverted twice through basic copyediting, which I find rude. I invite editor comment and consensus. -- MikeJ9919 05:16, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
I gave explanations for my writings in the texts itself and I never new this was here. I did not know what the hell you meant when you asked me to talk.
Mike - thanks for your attempts at mediation. I've blocked both for 12h as a wake-up call to them. Hopefully they will come back more prepared to compromise and discuss William M. Connolley 13:07, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
I tried to make a comprimise of the two. I'd like the last two paragraphs to STOP being removed, since they are not part of the Venom-strength debate. -- Viridis 03:39, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to move the discussion down here for a final consensus, so we can avoid having two discussions ongoing in the "Powers" section and the "Reverting" section above. I'd like to thank Viridis for his compromise, and endorse it along with T-1000's minor changes. I've made some very slight flow changes, as well as adding the actual name of the additional symbiote / sentient toxic waste, the Mercurial Virus. I would not mind a mention of the Superman / Venom fight, as long as it's made clear that there is no evidence that this crossover is considered canon. Otherwise, I endorse this version as a consensus compromise. Anyone else? -- MikeJ9919 06:28, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
"This indicates the symbiote doesn't have any inner organs or cells as we know it; it is a living and morphing mass made up of alien molecules. Finally, the symbiote is able to heal the host (a power that all the symbiotes share), and can protect its host in numerous ways. For example: by making sure the host gets enough oxygen even if they are one the bottom of the ocean. It is possible some of these powers evolved on the alien planet in Secret Wars. Because of the strange force the planet was loaded with, which among other things made it possible for Captain America to fuse the broken pieces from his shield together again as a whole by using nothing more than his will power and later made it possible for Ben Grimm to split into two different bodies (The Thing and an evil Ben Grimm), this could have had an effect on other Marvel characters too, even on a subconscious level (it was on this planet the Hulk started to change again). The minds and fusion of the symbiote and Peter Parker on this planet could then have resulted in some sort of transformation of the symbiote, giving it new abilities, like Peter Parker's need for a place to hide his camera, the need for a web and the fact that this symbiote was able to copy most of his powers. Venom is the only known symbiote that has been able to copy the powers of its host, and it only happened once (with Spider-Man). Since then, they have stayed with him on a permanent basis, also the spider symbol on his chest and the webbing. Even his offspring have inherited such things as the look, the power to climb on all surfaces and not activating the spider-sense. If they were able to copy the power of other superhumans just by touch or making them their hosts, they would probably have done this a long time ago to make themselves even more powerful. Venom himself appears to be unable to repeat the trick. Which is another indication that what happened on the alien planet in Secret Wars was only possible there and then. Peter Parker is the only host (his first?) that has become negative affected in the partnership with the symbiote, being constantly tired and taken over by the suit when sleeping, while all the other hosts has become stronger, including those of his offsprings. It seems like the almost complete fusion with Spider-Man was a little too successful, as he as mentioned since then have kept Spider-Man's powers (except the spider-sense), the general look of the black suit and been unable to adapt to or copy the genetic profile of other hosts in the same degree or fuse with them in the same way it tried with Parker. During the time it was a part of Peter Parker, it became permanently transformed, a transformation that has clearly passed on to the next generations, making them different from their relatives on their home planet. A little longer, and it would probably have been impossible to separate Peter Parker and the symbiote when the merging process were complete. Because of this, Spider-Man has a strong connection with Venom and the other symbiotes on earth. In a way they are a part of him, and his influence on their powers and abilities is clear. (Carnage is different with his more intimate connection between symbiote and host, as another process was involved in the creation of him, infecting his bloodstream rather than just covering his body surface. Still, he has inherited most of Venom's powers and limitations)."
I don't agree. It is not my opinions, it is suggestions on how to explain existing elements about Venom that is not mentioned elsewhere. And unless someone can prove it is correct or incorrect, they will do just fine the way they are. It is also possible to think logic (for instance; even if it is not mentioned, we have to assume that a day still has 24 hours, the earth still has a moon, marsupials still exists in Australia and so on. This way of thinking also goes for characters in the Marvel universe). Even the writers of he Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe have used words as "possibly", "could" and "maybe". I also notice you are reverting everything I have written, not only my suggestions. For instance the parts about the mental powers and the example about providing oxygen to its host even if it is under water (as seen in a story where Venom thinks he has finally killed Spider-Man). Instead of just changing, you are removing everything, which is not the way to do it.
"Do you have anything to back all of this up?"
Amazing Spider-Man #258 and Peter Parker #96. There you can read that the parasite are trying to become a permanent part of Parker, and that it would probably have succeded if Reed Richards hadn't been able to remove it. Because the symbiote was captured and separated from Spider-Man, we will never know what would happened. Maybe it would have fused completely, and maybe it would have been possible to remove it after all. Based on the issues mentioned above, the word "probably" is what suits best in this case.
In Amazing Spider-Man, from #259 to #261, we also see that the symbiote communicates telepathic with a small flying machine from space and is trying to take mental control over Franklin Richards, even if the symbiote is still captured in the container.
And like I said, you are allowed to think logic. Since the symbiotes have never shown any signs to be able to copy someones powers, and no scientists have discovered any signs of this, and it only has happened once (on the alien planet in Secret Wars), it is not a bad suggestion that Venoms powers has something to do with what happened on that planet. He was different from the other symbiotes, but only because he wanted to fuse with the host instead of living as a pure parasite. So far there is nothing that indicates he had other powers. But some of his powers have never been found in any other symbiotes or in any other hosts than with Spider-Man. And there is one thing we can say for sure, which is that the spider symbol on his chest and the white areas where the web is coming from was not a part of the original look of the symbiote. Yet it has become a part of Venom. Just because there is no direct proves to be found in the comic books (yet), it doesn't mean assuming is wrong. In Spider-Man, fans claimed that it wasn't the fall from the bridge that killed Gwen Stacy, it Spider-Man who killed her when he stopped her using his web, causing her neck to crack. In issues years later, it turned out the fans were right. No matter how or why, when looking at Venom and the other symbiotes, it seems clear that the first contact between Spider-Man and the symbiote was something unique. All I did was to suggests an explanation.
"Do you have info from the comic that proves that the symbiote's powers are not innate?"
Well, do you have any info from the comic that they are? So just because neither I or you can prove it, it should not be mentioned at all even if there are a lot of indications about the nature of the character? This is one of those subjects which is an open question, and because if that, it is worth mentioning.
"Your edit clearly violates NPOV and it is Original Research."
Wikipedia includes such things as politics, science, history, religion and so on. So it is obvious that it is important not to allowe all kinds of people coming up with their own ideas and claims without any relieble sources. But in this case we are talking about a comic book character and its origin/powers, which has nothing to do with the real world at all. In the strange world of comic books, facts and data will often not exist until they are published. The past, future, present and characters are not always the same in the comic reality, it depends on who is the writer and editor for the moment. When some elements about a character are not clear or is unexplained, it is only natural for people to mention this in the article, and come up with (neutral) suggestions that explains these parts in a best possible way if the answear does not exist yet. This tells the readers the following things; there are some interesting and relevant elements that is still not explained, and that the explanation offered is not a claim but the best possible suggestions for the moment until some writer of the comic book gives us the full story and all the answears, leaving no doubt behind (in the world of comic books, the reality where the characters are living is shaped and built in front of our eyes, including the past, and no one knows what will happen next). Before this happens, it is important to show readers the difference between facts and explanations based on strong indications (but still not proven). When some proves does show up, all what is needed is to edit the article a bit. Or do you prefer the words "but nobody knows..." to all the unexplained parts?
If you don't like the way I write, then write it with your own words instead of just removing all of it. English is not my mother language, and I don't live and have never lived in an English speaking country, so I just have to do the best I can.
A sketch by Mark Bagley featuring Venom, Spider-Man and Punisher from mid '90 was not used for a comic yet.
Where does it come from?
Was there a backstory about this sketch?
Any info, please!
Does anyone want to add something about Venom's variably referring to himself as "we" and "I""? It seems to be thoroughly inconsistent in the comic books. When I was younger, I'd vehemntly defend that Venom was always "we" (Eddie Brock + alien symbiote), but, now, I think that this is just a moot point, perhaps deserving to be mentioned on Wikipedia's page.
( Commando303)
Per WP:CMC, Ultimate character articles should be merged into the articles of their Marvel U. counterparts.
Discussion closed with the result being Merge. -- Chris Griswold 08:41, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
This is the Negotiater, I am now deleting all the other Ultimate Marvel articles and merging them to the original. Tell me if it's bad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.141.83.150 ( talk • contribs) 13:55, 23 September 2006
Stop using my name, anyway, who merged the Ultimate Venom and how do you work the Deletion Log? —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Nagotiater ( talk • contribs) 19:25, 25 September 2006
Remember when I was whining for the Ultimate Venom article? Well, how the section is now is good if you let me add the characteristics, then I will feel fine, I won't whine again.—Preceding
unsigned comment added by
The Nagotiater (
talk •
contribs)
We don't base the article revolving around how YOU feel. So suck it up, we don't need it. It's practicaly the same as the 616 box. UnDeRsCoRe 22:10, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
It would be awesome if in the alternate Venom section, an addition of Pork Grind, Venom from the Spider-Ham universe, could be added, especially with a picture.
I'm trying to edit it a bit but I'm having trouble since I can't tell if its for Brock, the Symbiote, the combination that creates Venom or what. The symbiote itself isn't called Venom I don't think, but the combination of Brock and the symbiote is. Its worse because other characters are being called Venom because they are using the symbiote so then do you follow the symbiotes progress or Brocks? Darkwarriorblake 02:41, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
I think that the Venom/Carnage film should still be made, albeit a few more years in the future.
Venom is definitely one of the coolest characters in the Spider-Man universe, and I hate to fail the article, but it just doesn't quite make GA standards. I see that you guys have a lot of trouble with anonymous editors adding stuff that needs to be cited, but so far you've managed that well. The best section is "Ultimate Venom"; you should try to follow in the style of that section when writing the rest of the article.
Don't forget to italicize comic book titles. Good luck. -- Dark Kubrick 05:36, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
CHECKLIST
Darkwarriorblake 21:34, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
Theres a lot of family info on eddie brock. Now personally I think its kind of important but I also think its out of place where it is, does anyone have any advice? Perhaps an article should be created for Eddie Brock. His existence is basically as Venom but Venoms history is possibly TOO full to contain info on the human side of the host. Darkwarriorblake 16:08, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Well I'm only asking because of the personality and family/relationships part. It seems out of place where it is and its a fairly huge chunk. But in some ways it seems important at least to Eddie's character and history and since we're trying to create a repository of knowledge, trimmed and neat though it may be, it seems to make sense to let readers know what Eddie himself is like and his history since theres a whole article on the symbiotes themselves to take care of their personalities and abilities. Anyone seen Senator Wards article? Now thats unecessary. Darkwarriorblake 21:58, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
The venom article should still be about the pairing, Brock and the Symbiote ARE Venom and every event has involved them, its really Brocks history thats the problem. We could always just remove it but it seems weird not to have that information here, like I said, its meant to be a place where if someone wants to know about Venom, they type Venom and bam, theres his detailed history, everything hes done, those are the games he was in, etc, etc. Darkwarriorblake 19:18, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
I changed the UV pic because you couldn't see anything but teeth and eyes. If you disagree with the current picture I found/edited these two also. IMO, I like the current one but I could understand complaints that you can't see the top of his face properly. It does showcase his whole body though which I think is more beneficial for a picture. Shows off the purple hue he seems to have in Ultimate.:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/97/Ultimatevenom1002.jpg/180px-Ultimatevenom1003.jpg Darkwarriorblake 21:59, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
There thats better. If it ain't being seen it ain't using bandwidth. Shouldn't cause any harm. Darkwarriorblake 00:23, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
I know in the Ultimate Spider-Man video game, Electro says, "this guy's vulnerable to electricity!" but Venom's weakness to electricity is really up to debate for the time being. In the comics, when Peter wore the suit it apparently vaporized when he hit two telephone wires for an extended period of time, but Venom was only stunned for a moment when he hit power lines. Since he then survived a more massive voltage soon afterwards, it doesn't appear electricity is really all that powerful against the suit.
Do you think we could get a better picture of Venom here? UnDeRsCoRe 00:13, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Do NOT re-add the cover. It was removed for a reason. Darkwarriorblake 03:17, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Well, if we cannot add that cover, how about this: http://comicsmedia.ign.com/comics/image/article/620/620606/venom-20050531024229721.jpg It gives Venom a more realistic feel. While still showing his trademark long tounge and sharp teeth. UnDeRsCoRe 03:33, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Well, that current image looks pretty good, but It's a bit low quality. UnDeRsCoRe 13:05, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
http://www.inkietos.com/wp-content/200509/29/venom.jpg
How about that? Thats pretty cool.
Or http://www.samruby.com/Villains/Venom/Venom.gif Darkwarriorblake 21:56, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree but isn't that the clone venom? UnDeRsCoRe 22:00, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Wouldn't really matter would it? It's still a picture that represents Venom. Found a bigger version to.
http://www.spyder-25.com/covers/venom/venom_12.jpg
Darkwarriorblake 22:01, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, it's great. It shows off Venom's full appearence and character. I think we should put it up. But who is the artisit? UnDeRsCoRe 22:03, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Again i don't know the exact artist, just that its from a comics panel. Considering the style though its most likely Mark Bagley. Darkwarriorblake 22:06, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
It's Francisco Herrera. I saw it on Spider-Fan.org. Here [4] It's the cover to Venom #12 UnDeRsCoRe 22:19, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Now, I'm stil curious about certain things:
ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 23:33, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
How did we go from Controversy over creator credit to Venom creator credit dispute. Tell me which one makes more sense there from an English language stand-point. You're also supposed to discuss/poll moves. Again Venom : Controversy Over Creator Credit makes more sense and sounds better than Venom creator credit dispute. One sounds like its an addition to the Venom article, which it is. The other...well just sounds lame. Darkwarriorblake 16:28, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
I removed the personality section after reading it and finding that if you take away the POV statements and the original research there was nothing salvageable. If someone could find a reputable source that discusses Venom's anti-hero nature, I would be for its addition, however there was far too much independent analysis and point of view to include it in a form close to what it was. There are a few questions I have, as someone that does not know much about Venom, I do not feel I know much more after editing as much as I did. All I can tell is that writers seem to enjoy separating Brock from the symbiote, as that seems to be how every story ends. Also
Please try to keep the summary brief and discuss only events notable to the character. Also try to keep this an out of universe discussion of the character as a phenomenon not a real person. Merely including that he is a fictional character in the heading does not mean that he is treated as one in the rest of the article. I've done a bit to try to abbreviate the fictional history of the character, but the actual history (development, effects of specific writers and artists on the character, etc) would be much more informative. -- Newt ΨΦ 02:42, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
Dude I know it has to be brief but it doesn't have to be ultra short to the point it misses out facts which while minor are still notable or important. It doesn't have to be THAT brief. Just not paragraph after paragraph of waffle. Darkwarriorblake 11:16, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
I can't recall right now, you might want to make one big edit instead of 8-9 small ones because I have to visit each one to see and then remember them. It's mostly sentences that are either not sentences or small seemingly unimportant chunks of info which are removed which should be important. Like saying that Venom started hating Spidey again because his wife commited suicide. But that makes no sense. Its because she is afraid of the symbiote and sees Spider-Man in a black suit, then commits suicide. I know it didn't say the Spidey part before (I don't recall writing that bit) but it did at least say she was afraid of the symbiote and that sent Brock off on a vengeance bender. Darkwarriorblake 17:41, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
I disagree. For 13 issues, the Clone is made out to BE Venom until its eventually revealed that it is a clone made from his tongue. Plus it also then displays the fact that Wolverine and Patricia have been hosts since one of them is She-Venom and is absorbed INTO the original Venom, clone AND host plus Wolverine being a host is listed at the bottom, at least with that brief little sentence, people now know how and when he was the host. So I believe it is relevant history and it is brief. Like I said, you don't want a huge article but that doesn't mean everything has to be an insanely short, detail-less run through of events. Darkwarriorblake 19:02, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
www.spiderfan.org
Your analysis is fair, I've gone away and researched this info and I'm trying to put as much in while keeping it brief so context and such is kept but I have more knowledge than someone who knows nothing of Venom. I do understand, for example, that Spidey and Venom have fought before but time progresses and my belief was that the article was trying to keep a history of the character. I haven't detailed every fight for example but any important interactions should be there.
Nix one, no need for two at all. My vote goes for keeping the newest one, looks cleaner, no logos and displays more of Venny. Darkwarriorblake 23:51, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree with you on that one. :D UnDeRsCoRe 00:00, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
The following line "Reluctant to kill Thor, the heroes used one final plan, employing Black Bolt's incredibly powerful voice to create enough sonic damage to critically injure the symbiote." I believe is incorrect. I don't have the comic in hand, but as I remember it, it was Reed Richards with a large sonic gun (almost identical to what Black Cat later uses) who ultimately beat the symbiote, but couldn't bring himself to kill it because of its scientific value.
There's already a Venom (DC Comics), so the simple disambiguation (comics) in this pages title is inaccurate. I propose it be moved to Venom (Marvel). Any objections? -- tjstrf 22:28, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
I don't have any objections. It seem obvious. I mean, why says Venom (comics) when there is more than one Venom is the comics? So, I vote we move it. UnDeRsCoRe 22:32, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
Now then, I propose we leave things as they are for the time and discuss things further. (I know. I'm surprised I'd be the one saying that, too.) ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 01:05, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
This article belongs at this name. The DC Venom is realtively unknown outside of Bane appearances, whereas the Venom character has had his own series, action figures, and appearances in cartoons and film. -- Chris Griswold ( ☎ ☓) 19:53, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
Please stop adding it, it's uneeded, basically just the same info as 616. UnDeRsCoRe 22:12, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
i don't think venom appeared in this game. 69.148.51.254 22:53, 3 October 2006 (UTC)JasonX80
The attempt to paint Venom as having incalculable high superstrength borders on non-NOPV. He has rarely shown these strength levels. There is also no proof and Juggeruant being weaker than Superman, so it is not needed to mention both characters. Mentioning Superman in this article will also cause confusion that Superman and Venom are published by the same company. T-1000 19:30, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
T-1000 does have a point. Many characters hold their own and defeat other characters who are considerably stronger than they are. Remember the battle between Wolverine and Lobo from the DC vs Marvel crossover? It's been nearly a decade and people still debate about it or piss and moan over the fact that Lobo lost because he's "stronger". The crossover itself isn't even canon, just something to boost sales. Winning, losing, or holding your own in a fight doesn't determine how much pressure a character can generate nor how much weight they can lift. Is the battle between the two even canon anyhow? If it isn't, then the entire discussion really is a bit pointless because using it to measure Venom's strength wouldn't exactly be an accurate portrayal of Venom. Odin's Beard 01:24, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
It would perhaps be nice to refocus the comics section of this away from fictional biography and towards a publishing history of the character - tracing his meteroric popularity in the 90s, the explosion of miniseries, etc. Phil Sandifer 17:53, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
It looks like it should really be part of this article - Venom (comics) doesn't have a "publication history" section yet, but if it had, that'd be the ideal place for this? -- Mrph 20:38, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
There was already one discussion about splitting it in the first place and it was done because it was a lot of text and a big chunk in the middle of a page, it is ok where it is and isn't harming anyone, I think bringing it back would make the article too big for a start and ugly for another Darkwarriorblake 18:59, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Discussion closed. Result was MERGE -- Mrph 18:57, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Seriously? Alternate versions had sources for a start, were on this page for a second. Jeez people, it was fine as it was weeks ago and its been totally boned in such a short time. Whoever decided to edit the alternate versions and remove its sources don't ever edit anything ever again. Put it back on this page also, don't know why you think you can just split it that way, especially when its unecessary but you can't. Darkwarriorblake 01:39, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the link. I really think this article has taken a downhill turn in only a month. It was nigh flawless before. Good article flawless. Darkwarriorblake 18:04, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
I have a theory on how Venom changed from his TAS appearance to his Unlimited appearance. I think he was either fused with Carnage, hence both their dramatic changes in appearance, or it came around as some sort of side-effect of the time portal they were stuck in. The former might explain why Venom has powers like Carnage's own, and why Carnage now refers to himself as 'we' instead of 'I'. Also I think it a little odd that Venom wanted to destroy Carnage in the TAS, but because the TAS and Spider-Man Unlimited remained unbridged, there is no explaination as to why Venom sides with Carnage, especially since Venom sees Carnage as a threat against the revenge Venom plans against Spidey. It is strangeand it goes against all other incarnations of the character! Ggctuk 11:15, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Apparently, the Ultimate Venom article has returned, I think it is quite a shock, but so far no one is saying anything. 201.141.212.132 22:45, 16 November 2006 (UTC)Newcomer
I'm not happy about it but right now I don't have the energy to get into a bunch of big edits. Feel free to undo it. Darkwarriorblake 23:23, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Its nothing that couldn't be in the main article, especially considering the size of the ultimate venom description currently there. Notoriety from the movie? His names Eddie Brock Jr. Beyond that there isnt a single similarity whatsoever. Jr isn't a photographer, his suit is a protoplasmic whatever and he didn't get his suit in a belltower either while funnily enough, the normal Brock did during the animated series. I allowed you to keep that unnecessary sentence in the UV section and make Spidey 3 a header but this is taking it too far. I'll leave it up to you to put it back in the main Venom article or otherwise I'll do it. Darkwarriorblake 23:57, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
I allowed you by not removing the changes when they were not needed and not really appropriate to the article. People don't need to jump from Ultimate Venom directly to Spider-Man 3. The suffix 'jr' does not mean movie brock is based on Ultimate Brock at all. Darkwarriorblake 01:42, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Now, there will bew differences, but who knows? Maybe movie Eddie will be a scientist on the sad. It would follow the theme set by the last two films. Control your POV and ownership issues. I won't rip off your style and say I'm infallibly right or that this is the way things have to be, but I've yet to notice any legit complaints. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 01:59, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
You haven't noticed complaints because you and I are pretty much teh only ones editing this article. The UV article is nothing that requires its own article. Ultimate Venoms powers are no different than 616's apart from using tendrils instead of webbing so theres no point there. His history so far is nowhere near long enough either. It was merged for a reason and I'm pretty sure since then nothing eventful has hapenned to Ultimate Venom to warrant it extending any further. EDIT: Oh and there is a complaint, its right there above my initial post.
Darkwarriorblake
02:20, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Feh. Doesn't matter anyway. The whole article's just copyvio, anyway. Hybrid seems to have a history of dickup edits, too. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 03:39, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
What happened to the rather nice profile I gave Ultimate Venom Yesterday? It was betetr than the article you have now. In my opinion, if a loser like Carnage gets an Ultimate profile, then so should Venom. SaliereTheFish 10:08, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
How can I get this: http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i209/mexicutioner124/venom.gif
to be viewable like this: Image:Onslaught.gif
Answer ASAP please.
The Venom leaked trailer (at least the end of it where Eddie Brock becomes Venom) is official now. It was shown on Fox before Spider-Man 2 was shown. So it's no longer an unofficial leaked trailer. It should be okay to post those pictures now, but not the Venom Concept Art. It's on Youtube now, and SuperHeroHype has lots of avatars and animated GIFS from that trailer. Ggctuk 10:39, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
If you want to use the first crop in the article, I have a slide of cropped images from the SM3 behind-the-scenes preview right below.
-image removed-
Feel free to use it. I know it isn't exactly clear, but it's the best I could do given the quality of the Thanksgiving preview. The Chibi Kiriyama
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d177/ChibiKiriyama/Venomproof2.jpg
I lack the ability to crop nearly as well as the user who got the FOX footage crops, and can safely say that the picture I provided (with proof in the image of the URL I obtained it from) is a clear picture of the movie Venom. Perhaps it showed more than his gullet...? The Chibi Kiriyama
Why have you deleted my info about the cybercomics?
- Venom appeares in the Spider-Man CyberComic Storyline #11 called "Venom Saga", where he frames Spider-Man for a murder.
Let's settle this. In the first issue of the Planet of the symbiotes, Eddie is ruminating over whether or not it was he himself or the symbiote who drove him to murder. When he says to himself "...perhaps I should find help...." he immediately dismisses the thought and says something to the effect of "No, I am Edward Allan Brock, I've never needed anyone." This whole Eddie Charles Brock thing has no proof other than the official Marvel Encyclopedia. What do you trust more? A newly made publication likely written by people who hadnt read the Venom miniseries, or Eddie Brock himself? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.12.230.169 ( talk • contribs) 23:15, January 28, 2007
Image:Venomoviepic7.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 04:53, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Ultimate Venom's portion of this article has become quite long. Like Ultimate Nick Fury and Ultimate Thor, Ultimate Venom is a vastly different character than it's 616 counterpart, so I think it would be best to create a new article for Ultimate Venom and just put a link from this think this is put into action. 134.68.177.127 18:26, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
No Split - there are already enough Venom articles on WIkipedia. This page just needs some trimming as a whole, not just the Ultimate section. The "Early Appearances" sections seems particularly useless. If the page is ever split off it should be done as per the Category:Alternate versions of fictional characters convention. -- 69.182.73.240 23:11, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
In the effort of full disclosure, I was the one from the IP who originally proposed the split. Notthegoatseguy 14:51, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
I noticed someone tagged this article as a possible merge back to the main Venom article, but didn't say anything on the talk page. It'd be nice to hear from them.
==double double lol wut Bly1993 03:18, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
Image:Firstvenom.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 08:23, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Discussion closed with consensus of no merge. - 66.109.248.114 ( talk) 08:37, 28 November 2007 (UTC).
Does anyone else really think this article is too long? It looks like a good length to me, especially for such a major character in comics. Anakinjmt ( talk) 03:42, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Theres absolutely no need for the Spider-Man 3 section to be anywhere near as long as it is. Theres a separate article for that and I don't know who is so adamant about keeping it that they keep undoing the vast shortening that takes place. But it needs to go, along with a lot of fluff thats been added to the powers section. Darkwarriorblake ( talk) 23:56, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
I do agree with that last post that the Spider man 3 section on this character is far too long. But aside from that I do not think this article as a whole is "too long." as a reference I looked at the pages of Batman and the Joker and each is respectfully just as long as this Eddie Brock character page. The Joker has been in more media but has far less of a fictional history then Venom. I think the balance is fair. Eddie Brock is a relatively recent but incredibly popular, varied and eventful character. I would not consider this article too long at all. Danleary25 ( talk) 02:49, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
It could still use a substantial check and possible re-write of sections to improve their quality even if nothing need be removed. I still think a great deal of the powers section is fluff. Darkwarriorblake ( talk) 21:49, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
Today Darkwarriorblake went and shortened the section on Spider-Man 3, as was discussed here. Then Alexfusco5 called these edits "vandalism?" Has this been sorted out? The section as Darkwarriorblake edited makes it concise and actually relevant. Before, it contained a lot of extra plot points and explanations from the movie which had NOTHING to do with Eddie Brock (this articles subject). To then call the edits vandalism when there is a tag on the article being too long. Danleary25 ( talk) 23:48, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm not arguing with you, I apologise if you intrpret it that way. The picture you're replacing it with was replaced with the current and has been that way for a considerably, very considerably long time, mainly because the one you're replacing it with is cluttered with other imagery and it doesn't clearly display Venom. I've bettered the fair use for the other pic. If you do want to use it, it might be more sensible to do so within the document itself particularly the start of his bio or publication history.
As for the intro, the intro is like an abstract from my understanding and should give a reader an overview of the document so that they can make a decision to read further and get more detail.
EDIT: I am compromising with you, I did like a few of your last edits and kept them in and in some cases merged them with previous versions. He is not a Junior though. Never was. You're confusing him with Ultimate Brock or movie Brock. Either way its incorrect. Darkwarriorblake ( talk) 21:34, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
Image:Ultimate venom.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 02:31, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
It's called Venom: Dark Origins, and it's coming out in August. That'll add a few reference points to this article and/or help clear things up. :D 142.26.133.248 ( talk) 19:29, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Is the 616 Eddie actually Eddie Brock Jr or is this someone confusing ultimate marvel with mainstream continuity? Because I've never heard of Eddie being Eddie Brock Jr in 616. Darkwarriorblake ( talk) 18:42, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure you're right. The Eddie Brock of Earth-616 (the Mainstream Marvel universe) ISN'T Eddie Brock Jr. That IS just the ULTIMATE version of the character.-- BigBang616 ( talk) 01:40, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
There is someone who keeps removing the word 'fictional' in the lead for no reason at all. DCincarnate ( talk) 17:04, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
There has been a editing contest for the relevance of this picture which illustrates the moment that the character Eddie Brock first bonds with the Venom Symbiote. Kung Fu Man said when removing it "This image doesn't serve much of a purpose." To which Mariomassone reverted the edir and said of the picture: "It's a key moment in character's history." Kung Fu Man then removed the picture again and said "Yet as a fair-use image it illustrates nothing. The text alone suffices in this case."
While I agree that the text is effective I do not agree that the image is "irrelevant" or that the text alone is sufficient. The image shows many different things that the text alone can not. 1)It is the only picture of Venom-less Brock that shows what he looked like before the symbiote had an effect on his body. 2)A bit more cerebral, but it shows in Brock screaming face that Brock himself is as much a victim of his place as a major Marvel villain. And more importantly 3)It helps to support the fact that Brock is not necessarily Venom and Venom is not necessarily Brock. There is a major problem with editing of Venom on Wikipedia that many writers and readers can not differentiate the fact that while Brock has been called by the name Venom in the past, it is the SYMBIOTE that is the definitive creature to be identified as Venom. Brock is a human and a host to the symbiote creature, and is separate from the creature. Danleary25 ( talk) 21:40, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
By the pieces:
- J Greb ( talk) 01:09, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
The article, as is, needs some heavy copy editing. It is far too long, with many unneccessary details. Unfortunately, there are far too few details in the character history section. Important events such as the birth of Carnage and the other symbiote spawn are missing.
The section on the creator controversy is only tangentially relevent to the character information and would be much more suited for a separate article. There are already articles in existence about the Spider-Man movies, so we don't need to discuss them in depth here. Etc.-- 66.188.137.248 03:27, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
The creator controversy does go on a tangent from the article, but I don't think there's enough to justify it being a separate article, unless there is more to add to the story. If more sources and more information can be provided, and some organization of the section, then I think having a separate article would be a good idea.-- Undertow87 23:39, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
TOO LONG!!!! What the!!! Why, why why, what the heck happened!!?? This Wikipedia website is starting to SUCK!! This article was fine the way it is. It´s good there is a lot of info. A few people might want to read (what WAS here) this so that, incase they haven´t read the comics, they can read THIS!!! Hybrid 2 17:58, 9 November 2006 (UTC)Hybrid 2
Thankyou. It was great as it was, had a lot of info I'd personally gone away and referenced for other people. I lose net access for a few weeks and the main info has been butchered. Darkwarriorblake 18:03, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
You know the Ultimate Venom article? Before it was combined with the Venom article? Do you think you could bring the Ultimate Venom article back, but combined with the Venom Article? Or you can make it like how you make Wolverine, you know? There is a section with Ultimate Wolverine but a link leads to a seperate article. Can you do the same with Ultimate Venom please? If you do I'll stop changing the Ultimate Venom, Rhino pages. Answer Below As Soon As Possible.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.77.167.58 ( talk • contribs) 13:13, August 21, 2006
Until then, why can't you bring back what was deleted, like the ultimate wolverine? Then you can add more info later? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.77.167.58 ( talk • contribs) 15:05, August 21, 2006
It's pretty simple, really. The kid just wants Ultimate characters to have SHBs. Ultimate Namor, #Ultimate Deadpool|Ultimate Deadpool and Ultimate Giant-Man among others. Now, it's likely a universal decision that affects Ultimate character sections across the board needs to be reached, so, Kid GIPU, I recommend you take this up with the comics project. Oh and sign your comments.
Stop changing my corrections. Now maybe I haven't put enought info on Ultimate Venom, Carnage, and Rhino, but instead of deleting my corrections, add stuff I haven't added. I think wikipedia works better if most of these articles are as precise as possible.
Newt ΨΦ, are you the one who deleted the Ultimate Venom article and combined it with the Venom article?
First of all, how do you sign your comments? Second of all, do you agree that we should or shouldn't delete the ultimate articles? I say we shouldn't.
Four Villains, including Sandman, Venom, Goblin, and someone else. Avi Arad said that. -- Kozmik Pariah 22:31, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Most every source says that the first appearance of Venom is Amazing #299. But the info box on the Venom (Eddie Brock) page says that it's #298, and I have heard that a few other places also. The page here shows the frame from 299 which to my knowledge was the first real appearance. What happened in 298? Andrewdoane 13:36, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
It is perhaps not coincidental that this dispute arose at a time when artists such as McFarlane and Larsen were enjoying a great deal of popularity and clout with readers, and exploiting their popularity by publishing creator-owned books with their new company, Image Comics, and it is possible that this issue was a subtext of the greater debate over the importance of writers versus artists that was being waged in the industry at the time.
This seems grossly inadequate. The only reason John Bryne is involved in this discussion at all is that there was a vicious Bryne/McFarlane feud at the time. I'm starting to wish I kept issues of Wizard from the early 90s, but John Byrne would write angry responses to McFarlane's column in Wizard. McFarlane would put thinly veiled jabs at Bryne in the note from the author section of Spawn. It's irresponsible to bring Bryne into the discussion at all without explaining the situation.
I'm pretty sure of four out of the five names of Venom's children. Scream, Riot, Lasher, and Shriek, even though Shriek is already the name of another villian. I'm not sure about the black symbiote that looks like Venom. His human name is supposedly Carl, yet the symbiote name might be Phage or Hybrid or something else. Illusionz
The children of Venom I am familiar with are Carnage, Phage, Hybrid, Lasher Shriker, and Riot. Josh C.
I remember reading in the Earth X and Universe X series that in that future, Venom has joined with Peter Parker's daughter, May Parker, and they have become a crimefighter Venom. I believe this is an alternative-timeline future, but it seems important enough that it could deserve it's own section under "Other Versions of Venom". Anyone who knows this topic better than I want to tackle it?
Before, this idea was knocked out as "vandalism" or being "stupid." However, whether it was stupid or not, it was still a major feature of the character's development.
The drug that the symbiote needed was phenethylamine, which is a real chemical really found in both animals (though I haven't done research to see if it was speicifically in brain tissue) and in chocolate. It's quite common, actually, which is a bend in the reality for Marvel.
However, since this particular quirk was an issue for all the miniseries appearances of Venom after The Hunger, (in Lethal Protector he is given chocolate by the government as part of the arrangement), it seems a bit ignorant and/or petty to remove it from the front wiki.
Just my two bits.
I was talking it out with SoM (the remover) and he says it lacked sources. I've since found numerous people confirming the Hunger miniseries fact, and thing it can be added back now, maybe with the provision that it says that the point rarely appeared afterwards.
This is not a major feature of Venom. It was brought up once only during The Hunger, addressed (he's fine as long he eats chocolate) and hasn't been used again. It's not pivotal, and its exclusion wouldn not be missed. QuestionMark 20:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone else see the irony in this statement (regarding IMDb listing Topher Grace as Venom in Spiderman 3):
...this cannot be taken as fact since IMDB is a free-access site that can be edited by various sources.
-- Don Don 06:39, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
In Mark Millar's 'Venomous' arc Angelo Fortunato did indeed possess the Venom suit before being splattered all over the street.
And while I hadn't read the Venom series, I do know that Venom did possess Wolverine. 'Half of Canada' I'm not so sure on.
IF Venom has ALL the powers of Spider-Man, then he does have a healing factor. Peter Parker has always been able to heal fast. He's no Wolverine, but he's had broken bones heal in just a few days. So IF (notice the if) Eddie has all the same powers, then he does. Just wanting to mention that. Thanos6 21:46, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Tell me then is Venom fast? Is he strong? If Venom is only Eddie Brock and not the symbiote can I guess you can only consider him of normal human speed and strength. Venom is the combined sum of Brock and the symbiote. Since the coustume does have a healing factor then Venom does too. If Venom's bio went by what only Eddie had then he would just be a normal human. Do you even read Venom comics?
Didn't Venom use the symbiote to heal a wound on his ex-wife? And if he used the symbiote to perform surgery on himself to get a bomb out of his chest, I think it's safe to say the symbiote bestows a signifcant healing factor on its host if it can do that.
Learn how to sign your posts!!! 203.14.180.97 10:19, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
User:24.228.52.76 is taking things out of context in the powers and abilities section. Hulk and Juggeruant were not hurt by Venom's punches, and Superman was very weak when he faught Venom. I also need proof the Venom/Superman is canon. T-1000 05:30, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
"Juggernaut was knocked around like a toy in The Madness 2 and 3 meaning Venom is a alot stronger than 11 ton range. He also almost killed Sandman who is at the 85 class and almost killed Thing. Superman was not weakend in the comic. It never said or even hinted at that. Fans came up with that for an explanation. Hulk was not hurt by Venom but Venom was not hurt by his punches either until his sonic clap.
The symbiote bonds to Eddie and they become one. They share all their combined powers. It can be said if Venom does not have a healing factor then he only has normal human speed and strength since that too is from the symbiote. The point is still the same, the symbiote does have a healing factore of its own. Once bonded to Eddie then he has it too. He seems to not know that Venom is the combined entities of Eddie Brock and the symbiote. Juggeruant is not immune to all physical damage since there are comics that show he has taken damage from various beings ranging from Hulk to Apocalyspse. Also it does not matter if he is since I mentioned Venom was strong enough to have an affact on Juggy. He still knocked him around like a toy. Moving him alone is a big accomplishment. All marvel/dc crossovers are canon if the comic takes place in two seprate universes. Last durability or not it takes great strenght to face the Hulk and lets not forget Venom almost killed the Thing and Sandman who are both in the 85-90 ton range. The point of all this is that Venom has shown greater strength than his bio.
Venom bite the Sandman. This had nothing to do with strength. Same with the Thing. Fighting a Super strong guy does not make you super strong. It's simple logic. Wolverine has faught the Hulk to a standstill, yet he is not super strong.
Non of the comic crossovers are canon except JLA/Avengers. Certainly not Marvel vs. DC and all access.
People with healing factors healing themselves. The symbiote is healing the host. See the difference?
Also, the stuff you inserted clearly violates NPOV, hence it is to be removed. T-1000 03:48, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Try reading Venom the Madness 2 and 3 not just 1 to support your argument. Juggy got bitched slapped all around. Venom fought Sandman more that once. That was their third fight. I guess you know that since you appear to be a big Venom fan. The first time Venom went punch for punch with him and beat him down back in the early nineties. All Access is considered canon because it acknowledges that DC and Marvel are two seperate universes. Check that out for yourself. NPOV? What is that. How strong is She-Hulk? He also tossed her around too like she was nothing. Venom also has lifted a large tank. Do you know how many tons a small tank is let alone a large one? Now for the healing factor. The symbiote has one. Venom has one too because Venom is the combination of Eddie and the symbiote. Venom is the total of them two and not just Brock. You seemed to have forgotten that when I told you last. Why is that?
MikeJ9919 04:23, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
That comic he copied was in the madness one not 2 or 3.
Just read the Madness 2 and 3 for proof. Any comic store will have it.
Being asked to weight in on this discussion, I have this to say: No series published more than five years ago accurately portrays what current writers or editors will consider the Venom symbiote's strength range. Not until the Marvel Handbook gets to Venom will we have an official listing, and even then, this is with the idea that individual writers will stick by these standards and not have grossly out of proportion performance levels in stories. Comic book heroes are notorious for not being consistent having changed hands from so many writers (see the comparison between pre-Crisis Superman and post-Crisis Superman currently happening in Infinite Crisis). At best, we can state that Venom has significant strength, superior to Spider-Man's, and what fluxuations can be charted (like taking on the Juggernaut). We can't say anything that happened in any one series or comic appearance is a constant of the character, but we can compare power differences in publishing history to inform the reader. Cybertooth85 02:05, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
I like it
I've asked User:24.228.52.76 not to revert through my copyediting and to discuss his issues with the substantive text on the Talk page before reimplementing it. He ignored this request and reverted with no discussion on the Talk page, with me, or (as far as I know) with T-1000. He has also included no explanation in his edit summaries. I propose a policy of reverting similar changes on sight unless some discussion is attempted. Please note I have no knowledge of the dispute nor interest in it beyond the fact that User:24.228.52.76 reverted twice through basic copyediting, which I find rude. I invite editor comment and consensus. -- MikeJ9919 05:16, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
I gave explanations for my writings in the texts itself and I never new this was here. I did not know what the hell you meant when you asked me to talk.
Mike - thanks for your attempts at mediation. I've blocked both for 12h as a wake-up call to them. Hopefully they will come back more prepared to compromise and discuss William M. Connolley 13:07, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
I tried to make a comprimise of the two. I'd like the last two paragraphs to STOP being removed, since they are not part of the Venom-strength debate. -- Viridis 03:39, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to move the discussion down here for a final consensus, so we can avoid having two discussions ongoing in the "Powers" section and the "Reverting" section above. I'd like to thank Viridis for his compromise, and endorse it along with T-1000's minor changes. I've made some very slight flow changes, as well as adding the actual name of the additional symbiote / sentient toxic waste, the Mercurial Virus. I would not mind a mention of the Superman / Venom fight, as long as it's made clear that there is no evidence that this crossover is considered canon. Otherwise, I endorse this version as a consensus compromise. Anyone else? -- MikeJ9919 06:28, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
"This indicates the symbiote doesn't have any inner organs or cells as we know it; it is a living and morphing mass made up of alien molecules. Finally, the symbiote is able to heal the host (a power that all the symbiotes share), and can protect its host in numerous ways. For example: by making sure the host gets enough oxygen even if they are one the bottom of the ocean. It is possible some of these powers evolved on the alien planet in Secret Wars. Because of the strange force the planet was loaded with, which among other things made it possible for Captain America to fuse the broken pieces from his shield together again as a whole by using nothing more than his will power and later made it possible for Ben Grimm to split into two different bodies (The Thing and an evil Ben Grimm), this could have had an effect on other Marvel characters too, even on a subconscious level (it was on this planet the Hulk started to change again). The minds and fusion of the symbiote and Peter Parker on this planet could then have resulted in some sort of transformation of the symbiote, giving it new abilities, like Peter Parker's need for a place to hide his camera, the need for a web and the fact that this symbiote was able to copy most of his powers. Venom is the only known symbiote that has been able to copy the powers of its host, and it only happened once (with Spider-Man). Since then, they have stayed with him on a permanent basis, also the spider symbol on his chest and the webbing. Even his offspring have inherited such things as the look, the power to climb on all surfaces and not activating the spider-sense. If they were able to copy the power of other superhumans just by touch or making them their hosts, they would probably have done this a long time ago to make themselves even more powerful. Venom himself appears to be unable to repeat the trick. Which is another indication that what happened on the alien planet in Secret Wars was only possible there and then. Peter Parker is the only host (his first?) that has become negative affected in the partnership with the symbiote, being constantly tired and taken over by the suit when sleeping, while all the other hosts has become stronger, including those of his offsprings. It seems like the almost complete fusion with Spider-Man was a little too successful, as he as mentioned since then have kept Spider-Man's powers (except the spider-sense), the general look of the black suit and been unable to adapt to or copy the genetic profile of other hosts in the same degree or fuse with them in the same way it tried with Parker. During the time it was a part of Peter Parker, it became permanently transformed, a transformation that has clearly passed on to the next generations, making them different from their relatives on their home planet. A little longer, and it would probably have been impossible to separate Peter Parker and the symbiote when the merging process were complete. Because of this, Spider-Man has a strong connection with Venom and the other symbiotes on earth. In a way they are a part of him, and his influence on their powers and abilities is clear. (Carnage is different with his more intimate connection between symbiote and host, as another process was involved in the creation of him, infecting his bloodstream rather than just covering his body surface. Still, he has inherited most of Venom's powers and limitations)."
I don't agree. It is not my opinions, it is suggestions on how to explain existing elements about Venom that is not mentioned elsewhere. And unless someone can prove it is correct or incorrect, they will do just fine the way they are. It is also possible to think logic (for instance; even if it is not mentioned, we have to assume that a day still has 24 hours, the earth still has a moon, marsupials still exists in Australia and so on. This way of thinking also goes for characters in the Marvel universe). Even the writers of he Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe have used words as "possibly", "could" and "maybe". I also notice you are reverting everything I have written, not only my suggestions. For instance the parts about the mental powers and the example about providing oxygen to its host even if it is under water (as seen in a story where Venom thinks he has finally killed Spider-Man). Instead of just changing, you are removing everything, which is not the way to do it.
"Do you have anything to back all of this up?"
Amazing Spider-Man #258 and Peter Parker #96. There you can read that the parasite are trying to become a permanent part of Parker, and that it would probably have succeded if Reed Richards hadn't been able to remove it. Because the symbiote was captured and separated from Spider-Man, we will never know what would happened. Maybe it would have fused completely, and maybe it would have been possible to remove it after all. Based on the issues mentioned above, the word "probably" is what suits best in this case.
In Amazing Spider-Man, from #259 to #261, we also see that the symbiote communicates telepathic with a small flying machine from space and is trying to take mental control over Franklin Richards, even if the symbiote is still captured in the container.
And like I said, you are allowed to think logic. Since the symbiotes have never shown any signs to be able to copy someones powers, and no scientists have discovered any signs of this, and it only has happened once (on the alien planet in Secret Wars), it is not a bad suggestion that Venoms powers has something to do with what happened on that planet. He was different from the other symbiotes, but only because he wanted to fuse with the host instead of living as a pure parasite. So far there is nothing that indicates he had other powers. But some of his powers have never been found in any other symbiotes or in any other hosts than with Spider-Man. And there is one thing we can say for sure, which is that the spider symbol on his chest and the white areas where the web is coming from was not a part of the original look of the symbiote. Yet it has become a part of Venom. Just because there is no direct proves to be found in the comic books (yet), it doesn't mean assuming is wrong. In Spider-Man, fans claimed that it wasn't the fall from the bridge that killed Gwen Stacy, it Spider-Man who killed her when he stopped her using his web, causing her neck to crack. In issues years later, it turned out the fans were right. No matter how or why, when looking at Venom and the other symbiotes, it seems clear that the first contact between Spider-Man and the symbiote was something unique. All I did was to suggests an explanation.
"Do you have info from the comic that proves that the symbiote's powers are not innate?"
Well, do you have any info from the comic that they are? So just because neither I or you can prove it, it should not be mentioned at all even if there are a lot of indications about the nature of the character? This is one of those subjects which is an open question, and because if that, it is worth mentioning.
"Your edit clearly violates NPOV and it is Original Research."
Wikipedia includes such things as politics, science, history, religion and so on. So it is obvious that it is important not to allowe all kinds of people coming up with their own ideas and claims without any relieble sources. But in this case we are talking about a comic book character and its origin/powers, which has nothing to do with the real world at all. In the strange world of comic books, facts and data will often not exist until they are published. The past, future, present and characters are not always the same in the comic reality, it depends on who is the writer and editor for the moment. When some elements about a character are not clear or is unexplained, it is only natural for people to mention this in the article, and come up with (neutral) suggestions that explains these parts in a best possible way if the answear does not exist yet. This tells the readers the following things; there are some interesting and relevant elements that is still not explained, and that the explanation offered is not a claim but the best possible suggestions for the moment until some writer of the comic book gives us the full story and all the answears, leaving no doubt behind (in the world of comic books, the reality where the characters are living is shaped and built in front of our eyes, including the past, and no one knows what will happen next). Before this happens, it is important to show readers the difference between facts and explanations based on strong indications (but still not proven). When some proves does show up, all what is needed is to edit the article a bit. Or do you prefer the words "but nobody knows..." to all the unexplained parts?
If you don't like the way I write, then write it with your own words instead of just removing all of it. English is not my mother language, and I don't live and have never lived in an English speaking country, so I just have to do the best I can.
A sketch by Mark Bagley featuring Venom, Spider-Man and Punisher from mid '90 was not used for a comic yet.
Where does it come from?
Was there a backstory about this sketch?
Any info, please!
Does anyone want to add something about Venom's variably referring to himself as "we" and "I""? It seems to be thoroughly inconsistent in the comic books. When I was younger, I'd vehemntly defend that Venom was always "we" (Eddie Brock + alien symbiote), but, now, I think that this is just a moot point, perhaps deserving to be mentioned on Wikipedia's page.
( Commando303)
Per WP:CMC, Ultimate character articles should be merged into the articles of their Marvel U. counterparts.
Discussion closed with the result being Merge. -- Chris Griswold 08:41, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
This is the Negotiater, I am now deleting all the other Ultimate Marvel articles and merging them to the original. Tell me if it's bad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.141.83.150 ( talk • contribs) 13:55, 23 September 2006
Stop using my name, anyway, who merged the Ultimate Venom and how do you work the Deletion Log? —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Nagotiater ( talk • contribs) 19:25, 25 September 2006
Remember when I was whining for the Ultimate Venom article? Well, how the section is now is good if you let me add the characteristics, then I will feel fine, I won't whine again.—Preceding
unsigned comment added by
The Nagotiater (
talk •
contribs)
We don't base the article revolving around how YOU feel. So suck it up, we don't need it. It's practicaly the same as the 616 box. UnDeRsCoRe 22:10, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
It would be awesome if in the alternate Venom section, an addition of Pork Grind, Venom from the Spider-Ham universe, could be added, especially with a picture.
I'm trying to edit it a bit but I'm having trouble since I can't tell if its for Brock, the Symbiote, the combination that creates Venom or what. The symbiote itself isn't called Venom I don't think, but the combination of Brock and the symbiote is. Its worse because other characters are being called Venom because they are using the symbiote so then do you follow the symbiotes progress or Brocks? Darkwarriorblake 02:41, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
I think that the Venom/Carnage film should still be made, albeit a few more years in the future.
Venom is definitely one of the coolest characters in the Spider-Man universe, and I hate to fail the article, but it just doesn't quite make GA standards. I see that you guys have a lot of trouble with anonymous editors adding stuff that needs to be cited, but so far you've managed that well. The best section is "Ultimate Venom"; you should try to follow in the style of that section when writing the rest of the article.
Don't forget to italicize comic book titles. Good luck. -- Dark Kubrick 05:36, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
CHECKLIST
Darkwarriorblake 21:34, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
Theres a lot of family info on eddie brock. Now personally I think its kind of important but I also think its out of place where it is, does anyone have any advice? Perhaps an article should be created for Eddie Brock. His existence is basically as Venom but Venoms history is possibly TOO full to contain info on the human side of the host. Darkwarriorblake 16:08, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Well I'm only asking because of the personality and family/relationships part. It seems out of place where it is and its a fairly huge chunk. But in some ways it seems important at least to Eddie's character and history and since we're trying to create a repository of knowledge, trimmed and neat though it may be, it seems to make sense to let readers know what Eddie himself is like and his history since theres a whole article on the symbiotes themselves to take care of their personalities and abilities. Anyone seen Senator Wards article? Now thats unecessary. Darkwarriorblake 21:58, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
The venom article should still be about the pairing, Brock and the Symbiote ARE Venom and every event has involved them, its really Brocks history thats the problem. We could always just remove it but it seems weird not to have that information here, like I said, its meant to be a place where if someone wants to know about Venom, they type Venom and bam, theres his detailed history, everything hes done, those are the games he was in, etc, etc. Darkwarriorblake 19:18, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
I changed the UV pic because you couldn't see anything but teeth and eyes. If you disagree with the current picture I found/edited these two also. IMO, I like the current one but I could understand complaints that you can't see the top of his face properly. It does showcase his whole body though which I think is more beneficial for a picture. Shows off the purple hue he seems to have in Ultimate.:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/97/Ultimatevenom1002.jpg/180px-Ultimatevenom1003.jpg Darkwarriorblake 21:59, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
There thats better. If it ain't being seen it ain't using bandwidth. Shouldn't cause any harm. Darkwarriorblake 00:23, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
I know in the Ultimate Spider-Man video game, Electro says, "this guy's vulnerable to electricity!" but Venom's weakness to electricity is really up to debate for the time being. In the comics, when Peter wore the suit it apparently vaporized when he hit two telephone wires for an extended period of time, but Venom was only stunned for a moment when he hit power lines. Since he then survived a more massive voltage soon afterwards, it doesn't appear electricity is really all that powerful against the suit.
Do you think we could get a better picture of Venom here? UnDeRsCoRe 00:13, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Do NOT re-add the cover. It was removed for a reason. Darkwarriorblake 03:17, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Well, if we cannot add that cover, how about this: http://comicsmedia.ign.com/comics/image/article/620/620606/venom-20050531024229721.jpg It gives Venom a more realistic feel. While still showing his trademark long tounge and sharp teeth. UnDeRsCoRe 03:33, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Well, that current image looks pretty good, but It's a bit low quality. UnDeRsCoRe 13:05, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
http://www.inkietos.com/wp-content/200509/29/venom.jpg
How about that? Thats pretty cool.
Or http://www.samruby.com/Villains/Venom/Venom.gif Darkwarriorblake 21:56, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree but isn't that the clone venom? UnDeRsCoRe 22:00, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Wouldn't really matter would it? It's still a picture that represents Venom. Found a bigger version to.
http://www.spyder-25.com/covers/venom/venom_12.jpg
Darkwarriorblake 22:01, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, it's great. It shows off Venom's full appearence and character. I think we should put it up. But who is the artisit? UnDeRsCoRe 22:03, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Again i don't know the exact artist, just that its from a comics panel. Considering the style though its most likely Mark Bagley. Darkwarriorblake 22:06, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
It's Francisco Herrera. I saw it on Spider-Fan.org. Here [4] It's the cover to Venom #12 UnDeRsCoRe 22:19, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Now, I'm stil curious about certain things:
ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 23:33, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
How did we go from Controversy over creator credit to Venom creator credit dispute. Tell me which one makes more sense there from an English language stand-point. You're also supposed to discuss/poll moves. Again Venom : Controversy Over Creator Credit makes more sense and sounds better than Venom creator credit dispute. One sounds like its an addition to the Venom article, which it is. The other...well just sounds lame. Darkwarriorblake 16:28, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
I removed the personality section after reading it and finding that if you take away the POV statements and the original research there was nothing salvageable. If someone could find a reputable source that discusses Venom's anti-hero nature, I would be for its addition, however there was far too much independent analysis and point of view to include it in a form close to what it was. There are a few questions I have, as someone that does not know much about Venom, I do not feel I know much more after editing as much as I did. All I can tell is that writers seem to enjoy separating Brock from the symbiote, as that seems to be how every story ends. Also
Please try to keep the summary brief and discuss only events notable to the character. Also try to keep this an out of universe discussion of the character as a phenomenon not a real person. Merely including that he is a fictional character in the heading does not mean that he is treated as one in the rest of the article. I've done a bit to try to abbreviate the fictional history of the character, but the actual history (development, effects of specific writers and artists on the character, etc) would be much more informative. -- Newt ΨΦ 02:42, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
Dude I know it has to be brief but it doesn't have to be ultra short to the point it misses out facts which while minor are still notable or important. It doesn't have to be THAT brief. Just not paragraph after paragraph of waffle. Darkwarriorblake 11:16, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
I can't recall right now, you might want to make one big edit instead of 8-9 small ones because I have to visit each one to see and then remember them. It's mostly sentences that are either not sentences or small seemingly unimportant chunks of info which are removed which should be important. Like saying that Venom started hating Spidey again because his wife commited suicide. But that makes no sense. Its because she is afraid of the symbiote and sees Spider-Man in a black suit, then commits suicide. I know it didn't say the Spidey part before (I don't recall writing that bit) but it did at least say she was afraid of the symbiote and that sent Brock off on a vengeance bender. Darkwarriorblake 17:41, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
I disagree. For 13 issues, the Clone is made out to BE Venom until its eventually revealed that it is a clone made from his tongue. Plus it also then displays the fact that Wolverine and Patricia have been hosts since one of them is She-Venom and is absorbed INTO the original Venom, clone AND host plus Wolverine being a host is listed at the bottom, at least with that brief little sentence, people now know how and when he was the host. So I believe it is relevant history and it is brief. Like I said, you don't want a huge article but that doesn't mean everything has to be an insanely short, detail-less run through of events. Darkwarriorblake 19:02, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
www.spiderfan.org
Your analysis is fair, I've gone away and researched this info and I'm trying to put as much in while keeping it brief so context and such is kept but I have more knowledge than someone who knows nothing of Venom. I do understand, for example, that Spidey and Venom have fought before but time progresses and my belief was that the article was trying to keep a history of the character. I haven't detailed every fight for example but any important interactions should be there.
Nix one, no need for two at all. My vote goes for keeping the newest one, looks cleaner, no logos and displays more of Venny. Darkwarriorblake 23:51, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree with you on that one. :D UnDeRsCoRe 00:00, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
The following line "Reluctant to kill Thor, the heroes used one final plan, employing Black Bolt's incredibly powerful voice to create enough sonic damage to critically injure the symbiote." I believe is incorrect. I don't have the comic in hand, but as I remember it, it was Reed Richards with a large sonic gun (almost identical to what Black Cat later uses) who ultimately beat the symbiote, but couldn't bring himself to kill it because of its scientific value.
There's already a Venom (DC Comics), so the simple disambiguation (comics) in this pages title is inaccurate. I propose it be moved to Venom (Marvel). Any objections? -- tjstrf 22:28, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
I don't have any objections. It seem obvious. I mean, why says Venom (comics) when there is more than one Venom is the comics? So, I vote we move it. UnDeRsCoRe 22:32, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
Now then, I propose we leave things as they are for the time and discuss things further. (I know. I'm surprised I'd be the one saying that, too.) ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 01:05, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
This article belongs at this name. The DC Venom is realtively unknown outside of Bane appearances, whereas the Venom character has had his own series, action figures, and appearances in cartoons and film. -- Chris Griswold ( ☎ ☓) 19:53, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
Please stop adding it, it's uneeded, basically just the same info as 616. UnDeRsCoRe 22:12, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
i don't think venom appeared in this game. 69.148.51.254 22:53, 3 October 2006 (UTC)JasonX80
The attempt to paint Venom as having incalculable high superstrength borders on non-NOPV. He has rarely shown these strength levels. There is also no proof and Juggeruant being weaker than Superman, so it is not needed to mention both characters. Mentioning Superman in this article will also cause confusion that Superman and Venom are published by the same company. T-1000 19:30, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
T-1000 does have a point. Many characters hold their own and defeat other characters who are considerably stronger than they are. Remember the battle between Wolverine and Lobo from the DC vs Marvel crossover? It's been nearly a decade and people still debate about it or piss and moan over the fact that Lobo lost because he's "stronger". The crossover itself isn't even canon, just something to boost sales. Winning, losing, or holding your own in a fight doesn't determine how much pressure a character can generate nor how much weight they can lift. Is the battle between the two even canon anyhow? If it isn't, then the entire discussion really is a bit pointless because using it to measure Venom's strength wouldn't exactly be an accurate portrayal of Venom. Odin's Beard 01:24, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
It would perhaps be nice to refocus the comics section of this away from fictional biography and towards a publishing history of the character - tracing his meteroric popularity in the 90s, the explosion of miniseries, etc. Phil Sandifer 17:53, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
It looks like it should really be part of this article - Venom (comics) doesn't have a "publication history" section yet, but if it had, that'd be the ideal place for this? -- Mrph 20:38, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
There was already one discussion about splitting it in the first place and it was done because it was a lot of text and a big chunk in the middle of a page, it is ok where it is and isn't harming anyone, I think bringing it back would make the article too big for a start and ugly for another Darkwarriorblake 18:59, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Discussion closed. Result was MERGE -- Mrph 18:57, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Seriously? Alternate versions had sources for a start, were on this page for a second. Jeez people, it was fine as it was weeks ago and its been totally boned in such a short time. Whoever decided to edit the alternate versions and remove its sources don't ever edit anything ever again. Put it back on this page also, don't know why you think you can just split it that way, especially when its unecessary but you can't. Darkwarriorblake 01:39, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the link. I really think this article has taken a downhill turn in only a month. It was nigh flawless before. Good article flawless. Darkwarriorblake 18:04, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
I have a theory on how Venom changed from his TAS appearance to his Unlimited appearance. I think he was either fused with Carnage, hence both their dramatic changes in appearance, or it came around as some sort of side-effect of the time portal they were stuck in. The former might explain why Venom has powers like Carnage's own, and why Carnage now refers to himself as 'we' instead of 'I'. Also I think it a little odd that Venom wanted to destroy Carnage in the TAS, but because the TAS and Spider-Man Unlimited remained unbridged, there is no explaination as to why Venom sides with Carnage, especially since Venom sees Carnage as a threat against the revenge Venom plans against Spidey. It is strangeand it goes against all other incarnations of the character! Ggctuk 11:15, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Apparently, the Ultimate Venom article has returned, I think it is quite a shock, but so far no one is saying anything. 201.141.212.132 22:45, 16 November 2006 (UTC)Newcomer
I'm not happy about it but right now I don't have the energy to get into a bunch of big edits. Feel free to undo it. Darkwarriorblake 23:23, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Its nothing that couldn't be in the main article, especially considering the size of the ultimate venom description currently there. Notoriety from the movie? His names Eddie Brock Jr. Beyond that there isnt a single similarity whatsoever. Jr isn't a photographer, his suit is a protoplasmic whatever and he didn't get his suit in a belltower either while funnily enough, the normal Brock did during the animated series. I allowed you to keep that unnecessary sentence in the UV section and make Spidey 3 a header but this is taking it too far. I'll leave it up to you to put it back in the main Venom article or otherwise I'll do it. Darkwarriorblake 23:57, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
I allowed you by not removing the changes when they were not needed and not really appropriate to the article. People don't need to jump from Ultimate Venom directly to Spider-Man 3. The suffix 'jr' does not mean movie brock is based on Ultimate Brock at all. Darkwarriorblake 01:42, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Now, there will bew differences, but who knows? Maybe movie Eddie will be a scientist on the sad. It would follow the theme set by the last two films. Control your POV and ownership issues. I won't rip off your style and say I'm infallibly right or that this is the way things have to be, but I've yet to notice any legit complaints. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 01:59, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
You haven't noticed complaints because you and I are pretty much teh only ones editing this article. The UV article is nothing that requires its own article. Ultimate Venoms powers are no different than 616's apart from using tendrils instead of webbing so theres no point there. His history so far is nowhere near long enough either. It was merged for a reason and I'm pretty sure since then nothing eventful has hapenned to Ultimate Venom to warrant it extending any further. EDIT: Oh and there is a complaint, its right there above my initial post.
Darkwarriorblake
02:20, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Feh. Doesn't matter anyway. The whole article's just copyvio, anyway. Hybrid seems to have a history of dickup edits, too. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 03:39, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
What happened to the rather nice profile I gave Ultimate Venom Yesterday? It was betetr than the article you have now. In my opinion, if a loser like Carnage gets an Ultimate profile, then so should Venom. SaliereTheFish 10:08, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
How can I get this: http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i209/mexicutioner124/venom.gif
to be viewable like this: Image:Onslaught.gif
Answer ASAP please.
The Venom leaked trailer (at least the end of it where Eddie Brock becomes Venom) is official now. It was shown on Fox before Spider-Man 2 was shown. So it's no longer an unofficial leaked trailer. It should be okay to post those pictures now, but not the Venom Concept Art. It's on Youtube now, and SuperHeroHype has lots of avatars and animated GIFS from that trailer. Ggctuk 10:39, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
If you want to use the first crop in the article, I have a slide of cropped images from the SM3 behind-the-scenes preview right below.
-image removed-
Feel free to use it. I know it isn't exactly clear, but it's the best I could do given the quality of the Thanksgiving preview. The Chibi Kiriyama
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d177/ChibiKiriyama/Venomproof2.jpg
I lack the ability to crop nearly as well as the user who got the FOX footage crops, and can safely say that the picture I provided (with proof in the image of the URL I obtained it from) is a clear picture of the movie Venom. Perhaps it showed more than his gullet...? The Chibi Kiriyama
Why have you deleted my info about the cybercomics?
- Venom appeares in the Spider-Man CyberComic Storyline #11 called "Venom Saga", where he frames Spider-Man for a murder.
Let's settle this. In the first issue of the Planet of the symbiotes, Eddie is ruminating over whether or not it was he himself or the symbiote who drove him to murder. When he says to himself "...perhaps I should find help...." he immediately dismisses the thought and says something to the effect of "No, I am Edward Allan Brock, I've never needed anyone." This whole Eddie Charles Brock thing has no proof other than the official Marvel Encyclopedia. What do you trust more? A newly made publication likely written by people who hadnt read the Venom miniseries, or Eddie Brock himself? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.12.230.169 ( talk • contribs) 23:15, January 28, 2007
Image:Venomoviepic7.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 04:53, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Ultimate Venom's portion of this article has become quite long. Like Ultimate Nick Fury and Ultimate Thor, Ultimate Venom is a vastly different character than it's 616 counterpart, so I think it would be best to create a new article for Ultimate Venom and just put a link from this think this is put into action. 134.68.177.127 18:26, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
No Split - there are already enough Venom articles on WIkipedia. This page just needs some trimming as a whole, not just the Ultimate section. The "Early Appearances" sections seems particularly useless. If the page is ever split off it should be done as per the Category:Alternate versions of fictional characters convention. -- 69.182.73.240 23:11, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
In the effort of full disclosure, I was the one from the IP who originally proposed the split. Notthegoatseguy 14:51, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
I noticed someone tagged this article as a possible merge back to the main Venom article, but didn't say anything on the talk page. It'd be nice to hear from them.
==double double lol wut Bly1993 03:18, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
Image:Firstvenom.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 08:23, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Discussion closed with consensus of no merge. - 66.109.248.114 ( talk) 08:37, 28 November 2007 (UTC).
Does anyone else really think this article is too long? It looks like a good length to me, especially for such a major character in comics. Anakinjmt ( talk) 03:42, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Theres absolutely no need for the Spider-Man 3 section to be anywhere near as long as it is. Theres a separate article for that and I don't know who is so adamant about keeping it that they keep undoing the vast shortening that takes place. But it needs to go, along with a lot of fluff thats been added to the powers section. Darkwarriorblake ( talk) 23:56, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
I do agree with that last post that the Spider man 3 section on this character is far too long. But aside from that I do not think this article as a whole is "too long." as a reference I looked at the pages of Batman and the Joker and each is respectfully just as long as this Eddie Brock character page. The Joker has been in more media but has far less of a fictional history then Venom. I think the balance is fair. Eddie Brock is a relatively recent but incredibly popular, varied and eventful character. I would not consider this article too long at all. Danleary25 ( talk) 02:49, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
It could still use a substantial check and possible re-write of sections to improve their quality even if nothing need be removed. I still think a great deal of the powers section is fluff. Darkwarriorblake ( talk) 21:49, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
Today Darkwarriorblake went and shortened the section on Spider-Man 3, as was discussed here. Then Alexfusco5 called these edits "vandalism?" Has this been sorted out? The section as Darkwarriorblake edited makes it concise and actually relevant. Before, it contained a lot of extra plot points and explanations from the movie which had NOTHING to do with Eddie Brock (this articles subject). To then call the edits vandalism when there is a tag on the article being too long. Danleary25 ( talk) 23:48, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm not arguing with you, I apologise if you intrpret it that way. The picture you're replacing it with was replaced with the current and has been that way for a considerably, very considerably long time, mainly because the one you're replacing it with is cluttered with other imagery and it doesn't clearly display Venom. I've bettered the fair use for the other pic. If you do want to use it, it might be more sensible to do so within the document itself particularly the start of his bio or publication history.
As for the intro, the intro is like an abstract from my understanding and should give a reader an overview of the document so that they can make a decision to read further and get more detail.
EDIT: I am compromising with you, I did like a few of your last edits and kept them in and in some cases merged them with previous versions. He is not a Junior though. Never was. You're confusing him with Ultimate Brock or movie Brock. Either way its incorrect. Darkwarriorblake ( talk) 21:34, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
Image:Ultimate venom.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 02:31, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
It's called Venom: Dark Origins, and it's coming out in August. That'll add a few reference points to this article and/or help clear things up. :D 142.26.133.248 ( talk) 19:29, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Is the 616 Eddie actually Eddie Brock Jr or is this someone confusing ultimate marvel with mainstream continuity? Because I've never heard of Eddie being Eddie Brock Jr in 616. Darkwarriorblake ( talk) 18:42, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure you're right. The Eddie Brock of Earth-616 (the Mainstream Marvel universe) ISN'T Eddie Brock Jr. That IS just the ULTIMATE version of the character.-- BigBang616 ( talk) 01:40, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
There is someone who keeps removing the word 'fictional' in the lead for no reason at all. DCincarnate ( talk) 17:04, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
There has been a editing contest for the relevance of this picture which illustrates the moment that the character Eddie Brock first bonds with the Venom Symbiote. Kung Fu Man said when removing it "This image doesn't serve much of a purpose." To which Mariomassone reverted the edir and said of the picture: "It's a key moment in character's history." Kung Fu Man then removed the picture again and said "Yet as a fair-use image it illustrates nothing. The text alone suffices in this case."
While I agree that the text is effective I do not agree that the image is "irrelevant" or that the text alone is sufficient. The image shows many different things that the text alone can not. 1)It is the only picture of Venom-less Brock that shows what he looked like before the symbiote had an effect on his body. 2)A bit more cerebral, but it shows in Brock screaming face that Brock himself is as much a victim of his place as a major Marvel villain. And more importantly 3)It helps to support the fact that Brock is not necessarily Venom and Venom is not necessarily Brock. There is a major problem with editing of Venom on Wikipedia that many writers and readers can not differentiate the fact that while Brock has been called by the name Venom in the past, it is the SYMBIOTE that is the definitive creature to be identified as Venom. Brock is a human and a host to the symbiote creature, and is separate from the creature. Danleary25 ( talk) 21:40, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
By the pieces:
- J Greb ( talk) 01:09, 12 February 2009 (UTC)