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@ Pbritti: Why did you revert? An intentional dab link is the most logical target for a sentence that reads "There are different meanings of the word..." and the same paragraph utilises an intentional dab link for another ambiguous term. The only other good option there would be no link, since linking to an unambiguous target would be undermine the point of that sentence. -- Scyrme ( talk) 19:20, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
There has been a lot of back and forth on this topic over the last couple weeks and I would rather we laid out a plain discussion of the matter here. Per the cited Attwater source, the Syro-Malabar ecclesial community returned to the Catholic Church in 1662 following a brief schism, a reunion formalized in 1663 with the appointment of a bishop. This reunion is the best date I can find for saying the modern Syro-Malabar became part of the Catholic Church (there are multiple dates given to the establishment of what became Syro-Malabar Christianity more generally, usually between the late First Century and mid Third Century). There was a restructuring of the Syro-Malabar Church in 1923 that granted additional autonomy, elevating its autonomy to the degree we now refer to as sui iuris church on par with other major archiepiscopal particular churches like the UGCC. This is also viewable in the cited Attwater source. While this latter date is very important, I would suggest that it does not reflect the establishment of the church within the Catholic Church, as some degree of self-governance in communion with Rome was maintained before and after the schism with Rome in the 1600s. The 1923 date might be best understood as the date that any claims of Chaldean patriarchal authority were dismissed rather than the establishment of a new church. I intend to insert the First Century and 1663 dates with an explanatory note into the page. If any find deficiencies with this proposal, please comment here (rather than my talk page). I'll make the additions sometime after Latin Easter. ~ Pbritti ( talk) 18:47, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
The Syro-Malabar Church has its origin in the first century and came into communion with Roman catholic Church in the mid sixteenth century. It was recognised as an eastern Catholic Church snd it had Eastern bishops appointed, such as, Joseph Sulaqa, Abraham of Angamaly and Giwargis of Christ. However cunning colonial latin missionaries subjugated the church following the death of the last eastern bishop, declared the Chaldean Catholic Patriarch a Nestorian heretic and Schismatic and de-established the Syro-Malabar Church in 1599 through the Synod of Diamper. At times, the Syro-Malabar Christians revolted. The Coonan Cross Oath and Angamaly Padiyola. The papacy tactfully reciprocated by consecrating native bishops to heal the revolts. Palliveettil Chandy was consecrated to heal the revolt of 1653 and Kariattil Iousep was consecrated to end the schism in the eighteenth century. Both of the bishops were actually part of the Latin hierarchy. The Syro-Malabar hierarchy was established only in 1923. Since then it has been permanent and separate from latin hierarchy. Qaumrambista ( talk) 11:50, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
I have opened up an RFC to discuss the Syro-Malabar Church date issue here. – MJL ‐Talk‐ ☖ 15:40, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 00:52, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
I'll wait on confirmation before doing any changes to the table or the narrative.
Having an official sui-iuris Church unlisted would merits IMHO a section on the body of the article on extinct (??) churches. We know that Estonia had a few parishes that were never a jurisdiction. We know about the Church of Georgia, never officially listed, but with ambiguous history. Now, we have the Albanian Church. ~~---- Coquidragon ( talk) 18:39, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
@ Pbritti, as of the most recent Pontifical Yearbook (2023) published by Rome, the Syro-Malabar Church is the most numerous.
The 15 Churches with unified synods by size (as of 2023)
The multiple reliable sources published this yearare actually not reliable and are most probably examples of citogenesis. Logosx127 ( talk) 02:01, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
It is the largest Eastern Catholic Church after the Ukrainian Churchon the front page. ~ Pbritti ( talk) 17:26, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Eastern Catholic Churches article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3Auto-archiving period: 90 days |
Eastern Catholic Churches was nominated as a Philosophy and religion good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (February 17, 2017). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated. |
This
level-4 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
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Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
@ Pbritti: Why did you revert? An intentional dab link is the most logical target for a sentence that reads "There are different meanings of the word..." and the same paragraph utilises an intentional dab link for another ambiguous term. The only other good option there would be no link, since linking to an unambiguous target would be undermine the point of that sentence. -- Scyrme ( talk) 19:20, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
There has been a lot of back and forth on this topic over the last couple weeks and I would rather we laid out a plain discussion of the matter here. Per the cited Attwater source, the Syro-Malabar ecclesial community returned to the Catholic Church in 1662 following a brief schism, a reunion formalized in 1663 with the appointment of a bishop. This reunion is the best date I can find for saying the modern Syro-Malabar became part of the Catholic Church (there are multiple dates given to the establishment of what became Syro-Malabar Christianity more generally, usually between the late First Century and mid Third Century). There was a restructuring of the Syro-Malabar Church in 1923 that granted additional autonomy, elevating its autonomy to the degree we now refer to as sui iuris church on par with other major archiepiscopal particular churches like the UGCC. This is also viewable in the cited Attwater source. While this latter date is very important, I would suggest that it does not reflect the establishment of the church within the Catholic Church, as some degree of self-governance in communion with Rome was maintained before and after the schism with Rome in the 1600s. The 1923 date might be best understood as the date that any claims of Chaldean patriarchal authority were dismissed rather than the establishment of a new church. I intend to insert the First Century and 1663 dates with an explanatory note into the page. If any find deficiencies with this proposal, please comment here (rather than my talk page). I'll make the additions sometime after Latin Easter. ~ Pbritti ( talk) 18:47, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
The Syro-Malabar Church has its origin in the first century and came into communion with Roman catholic Church in the mid sixteenth century. It was recognised as an eastern Catholic Church snd it had Eastern bishops appointed, such as, Joseph Sulaqa, Abraham of Angamaly and Giwargis of Christ. However cunning colonial latin missionaries subjugated the church following the death of the last eastern bishop, declared the Chaldean Catholic Patriarch a Nestorian heretic and Schismatic and de-established the Syro-Malabar Church in 1599 through the Synod of Diamper. At times, the Syro-Malabar Christians revolted. The Coonan Cross Oath and Angamaly Padiyola. The papacy tactfully reciprocated by consecrating native bishops to heal the revolts. Palliveettil Chandy was consecrated to heal the revolt of 1653 and Kariattil Iousep was consecrated to end the schism in the eighteenth century. Both of the bishops were actually part of the Latin hierarchy. The Syro-Malabar hierarchy was established only in 1923. Since then it has been permanent and separate from latin hierarchy. Qaumrambista ( talk) 11:50, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
I have opened up an RFC to discuss the Syro-Malabar Church date issue here. – MJL ‐Talk‐ ☖ 15:40, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 00:52, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
I'll wait on confirmation before doing any changes to the table or the narrative.
Having an official sui-iuris Church unlisted would merits IMHO a section on the body of the article on extinct (??) churches. We know that Estonia had a few parishes that were never a jurisdiction. We know about the Church of Georgia, never officially listed, but with ambiguous history. Now, we have the Albanian Church. ~~---- Coquidragon ( talk) 18:39, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
@ Pbritti, as of the most recent Pontifical Yearbook (2023) published by Rome, the Syro-Malabar Church is the most numerous.
The 15 Churches with unified synods by size (as of 2023)
The multiple reliable sources published this yearare actually not reliable and are most probably examples of citogenesis. Logosx127 ( talk) 02:01, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
It is the largest Eastern Catholic Church after the Ukrainian Churchon the front page. ~ Pbritti ( talk) 17:26, 16 June 2024 (UTC)