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In Northen Transsylvania, during the Easter's Monday, perfume or perfumed water is often sprinkled by men (especially young men) on women (especially not married women) in exchange for an Easter egg (red egg or painted egg). The sprinkled perfume or perfumed water is meant to "increase the atractivness and the beauty" of the "flower" (woman).
During the Third Easter's Day, the highlanders from Tara Motilor used to congregate on mountain tops (in fact mountain plateaus) in Apuseni Mountains for popular feasts (named "nedeea"). Some of the feasts included semi-ritualized free fights between local men. One of the most popular Easter feast spot was (until the late "80) the "Feast at the Manuntelu Cross", located on a scenic mountain top plateau, 5 km South from Campeni municipality.
These customs, some of them with pre-Christian origin, are tending to be lost during the latest years of the 20th century. My sugestion is to mention that facts on the Easter's edit. Happy Easters ! user: Transsylvanian
Please insure that the informations are real. Romania,first of all is not a slavic country,do not be misslead by Romania's geographic location. Please do check before writing!!!!! In what regards the traditions,all the information given are valid and real. Transilvania is a part of Romania,but it holds plenty of minorities,reasons of which there are more and diverse traditions for all the religious celebrations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.200.2.20 ( talk) 03:37, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
There is no conflict between John and the Synoptics concerning the Last Supper and the crucifixion occuring on 14 Nisan. Matthew 26:17, Mark 14:12, and Luke 22:7 say that it was the first day of Unleavened Bread, so you would assume thats 15 Nisan. But both Mark and Luke in the same verses say that it was when the Passover lamb is sacrificed, which is the Preparation Day 14 Nisan. In Mark 15:42-47 and Luke 23:50-55 it is the Preparation Day when Jesus is taken down from the cross and buried - sunset to sunset, the same day as the Last Supper. Matthew 26:17 just says that the Last Supper was on the first day of Unleavened Bread. But like its fellow Synoptics we know its 14 Nisan from Matthew 27:62-66. We are told that the day after the crucifixion is the day after the Preparation Day. The Pharisees go to Pilate and convince him to put a guard at the tomb. The confusion arises because the Synoptics equate the first day of Unleavened Bread with the Preparation Day. The first Christians knew this and commemorated the crucifixion on 14 Nisan. Barney Hill ( talk) 21:53, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
Since I was discussing confusion about Holy Week, in my opinion Jesus wasn't crucified on a Friday. Good Friday comes from the mistaken belief that the sabbath after the crucifixion was the regular Saturday sabbath. John 19:31 says it was a special or great sabbath. If the crucifixion was on Preparation Day then the great sabbath has to be the Passover sabbath. Since Jesus said he would rise in three days, the crucifixion had to take place on a Wednesday for the Sunday resurrection. Barney Hill ( talk) 22:15, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
It says, under the icon picture, "Date First Sunday after the first full moon on or after March 21". That's misleading; it is not the real Full Moon, which in any case occurs on different local dates in different parts of the world. Granted, the main text has correct details; but I think that the term "Ecclesiastical Full Moon" should be used to indicate that there is something non-standard about it. 82.163.24.100 ( talk) 12:43, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
It says that there are 35 possible dates for Gregorian Easter Sunday, March 22 to April 25, which is of course correct for yyyy-MM-DD dates. There are 36 possible Ordinal Dates (yyyy-DDD), 081 to 116. There are only 6 possible ISO Week Numbering dates, yyyy-W12-7 to yyyy-W17-7. http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/estrdate.htm#SC 82.163.24.100 ( talk) 13:11, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Still related to the 35 possible dates above, it says that "... the Paschal full moon (the 14th of that lunar month) must fall on a date from March 21 to April 18 inclusive." Where does the date in the sentence "Accordingly, Gregorian Easter can fall on 35 possible dates - between March 22 and April 25 inclusive." came from? I'm reading Computus but cannot find the answer there either. Bennylin ( talk) 05:04, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
This image should be in this article somewhere. Directly relevant to Easter.
69.104.122.96 ( talk) 20:18, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
This recently-added passage
The dates of Easter and Passover usually fall within a week or so of each other, but in years 3, 11, and 14 of the 19-year metonic cycle, which is used in the Hebrew calendar, Passover will fall about a month after the (Gregorian) Easter. This is because the metonic cycle does not correspond entirely to the length of the tropical year. So, over the centuries the date of the vernal equinox (which is March 21 by Christian reckoning) has been drifting to later and later dates in relation to the metonic cycle. In ancient times this was not a problem since Passover was set by actual observations of the New Moon and of the vernal equinox. However, after Hillel II standardized the Hebrew calendar in the 4th century, actual observations of celestial events no longer played a part in the determination of the date of Passover. The Gregorian calendar reform of 1582 brought the Western Church back into line with the astronomical cycle. Similarly, because of the interplay of these variables, Orthodox Easter occurs about a month after Gregorian Easter in years 3, 8, 11, 14 and 19 of the metonic cycle. In three of these years (years 3, 11 and 14), Passover also falls about a month after Gregorian Easter.
Contains multiple problems:
-- Mockingbird0 ( talk) 14:10, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
The statement that the breaching of the rule of the equinox by the Jewish calendar in the late 3rd/early 4th century was "not intentional" cannot be supported. In the case of the Jewish community recorded in the Sardica paschal table it clearly was intentional: the Jews of that city did not have a rule of the equinox. The Babylonian Talmud attributes a rule of the equinox to the 4th-century Rabbi Huna ben Avin (b. Rosh Hashana 21a) but it is not clear that this rule was consistently followed even in Rabbinic circles at this early peariod. The Rabbinic calendar didn't reach its present form until around the 8th/9th century CE.-- Mockingbird0 ( talk) 14:45, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
Rwflammang ( talk · contribs) is pushing to have the etymology section bumped down far into the body rather than the usual front and center convention we see on Wikipedia. Generally, we have the etymology section as the first thing in the article when there's material for it. Rwflammang, please state your reasoning for this so we can discuss it rather than going through a pointless revert war. :bloodofox: ( talk) 18:03, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
After longer than "quick search", I cannot be certain what "14th day of moon" means - no less "first 14th". I think it probably means 14th day after new moon - but it could be 14th day after first crescent. I doubt it is 14th day after full, but others might easily read it that way - explanation needed somewhere -- JimWae ( talk) 18:41, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
It may be of interest that the very young crescent is easiest to see from the northern hemisphere when the sun and moon are near the spring equinox, since the moon's elevation above the horizon (as seen from the temperate northern hemisphere) increases most rapidly with her elongation from the sun at this point in the sky. Here is a picture of this year's new Paschal crescent: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080315.html -- Mockingbird0 ( talk) 05:11, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps User:Mockingbird0 would care to explain to us why the term Feast of Unleavened Bread is preferable to its synonym, Passover? Passover is by far the more common and less wordy term. People are much more likely to know what it means without consulting a dictionary. I prefer Passover, myself. Rwflammang ( talk) 16:29, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
Since the section of the article discussing the relationship between calendars is inherently computistical, the distinction should be maintained there.-- Mockingbird0 ( talk) 21:23, 15 October 2008 (UTC)Primum ergo diem azymorum appellat eum in quo exercitum eorum esset educturus de Aegypto. Constat autem quia non quartadecima die, in cuius vespera agnus est immmolatus, et quae proprie Pascha sive Phase dicitur; sed quintadecima sunt educti ex Aegypto. (He calls it the first day of Unleavened Bread in which he was to bring their host out of Egypt. But it is clear that they were not brought out on the 14th day, in the evening of which the lamb was slain, and which is rightly called the Passover or Phase; but on the 15th day they were brought out of Egypt.)
Just a thought: are we sure we are taking into account that the Jewish religious day begins at sunset? Thus, the evening of the fifteenth day of the moon is on the fourteenth day of the moon when reckoned with civil days. — Gareth Hughes ( talk) 23:33, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
I have read this section on the relationship of the date of Easter to Passover, trying to understand what is being asserted, and I can say that in its present form it makes absolutely no sense to me. It explains nothing. It uses terminology which only Mockingbird0 seems to know. Perhaps we should revert to plain English such as (in outline form only): the Jewish calendar uses strict astronomical phenomena of the equinox, full moon etc in the determination of Passover (see Hebrew calendar). Easter, on the other hand, is determined using the fixed date of March 21 as the equinox date (irrespective of the actual astronomical date) and using its particular 19-year lunisolar calendar cycle which runs independent from the actual astronomical equinox by inserting the intercalary lunar month at set points of its 19-year cycle, which is different to the 19-year metonic cycle used by the Jewish calendar...
Mockingbird0 seems to be obtaining his material from some unnamed source. If that is the case, I would appreciate its citation, to enable me to refer to it to understand what he is "trying" to say. I was the one who tagged his material as "dubious", which I still think is the case, and his table does not seem to really explain the assertion.
In the third place, I am beginning to get very uncomfortable to his repeated use of the adjective "Rabbinic". I know that the modern Jewish calculation-based calendar was a product of rabbinic Judaism, but it is now the normative calendar in use by all Jewish communities, with some small exceptions. It is not the rabbis' calendar nor is Nissan 15 nor whatever. I would like to know where his terminology, including his repeated use of the term Feast of Unleavened Bread is coming from. It's from no source that I know of.
Lastly, though it may be interesting that the paschal lamb was sacrificed on the 14th, etc, what has that got to do with the relationship between the two holidays? Whether Passover starts on Nissan 14 or 15 makes no difference in this context. So what is the point of the paragraph on the seder, or Maundy Thursday? Ewawer ( talk) 23:56, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
Likewise Philo:On the fourteenth day of the first month is the Lord's passover. And on the fifteenth day of this month is a feast; seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten. (Numbers 28.16).
Likewise Josephus:[On] the Crossing-feast, which the Hebrews in their native tongue call Pascha...many myriads of victims from noon till eventide are offered by the whole people...The day on which this national festivity occurs may very properly be noted. It is the 14th day of the month....With the Crossing-feast [Moses] combines one in which the food consumed is of a different and unfamiliar kind, namely, unleavened bread, which also gives its name to the feast....The feast begins at the middle of the month, on the fifteenth day, when the moon is full [and] is held for seven days... (Special Laws II.27-28).
In addition, as I have tried to show, the distinction between the Passover and the Days of Unleavened Bread is important in the literature of the computus and the Easter controversies. In an article about Easter it seems prudent to maintain this distinction.In the month of Xanthicus, which with us is called Nisan and begins the year, on the fourteenth day by lunar reckoning, the sun being then in Aries, our lawgiver, seeing that in this month we were delivered from bondage to the Egyptians, ordained that we should year by year offer the same sacrifice which....we offered then on departure from Egypt-the sacrifices called Pascha. And so in fact we celebrate it by fraternities, nothing of the sacrificial victims being kept for the morrow. On the fifteenth the Passover is followed up by the Feast of Unleavened Bread, lasting seven days, during which our people subsist on unleavened loaves... (Antiquities 3.10.5).
The deviation [of the Hebrew calendar] from the true astronomical figure is very slight as far as the lunar month is concerned, and therefore the Hebrew calendar months still follow the course of the moon quite closely in our time. The difference between the traditional length of the sun year and the respective astronomical figure is,however, not negligible and causes the Hebrew months to advance against the sun approximately 4 1/2 days in a thousand years For example, we celebrate Pesah 4 1/2 days later, on the average, than our ancestors did 1000 years ago at the time of Saadia Gaon.
Ewawer claims to have certain knowledge that "most Jews would not even know what the Feast of Unleavened Bread is." Yet the kiddush open the seder says quite plainly, "Thou hast given us in love the day of this Feast of Unleavened Bread and this festival of holy convocation, the season of our freedom, in commemoration of the out-going from Egypt." The festival amidah that is used on some of the Days of Unleavened Bread likewise contains the phrase "Feast of Unleavened Bread (hag ha-matzoth), the season of our freedom." So some folk apparently haven't gotten word that Ewawer thinks they aren't supposed to know this phrase.-- Mockingbird0 ( talk) 01:46, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
Someone marked as "dubious" the statement that in the years 2200-2299, Rabbinic Nisan 15 will be 1 lunation later than Easter in 4 years out of 19, instead of in only 3, as now. Here, to demonstrate that it is so, are 19 years in the period 2200-2299.-- Mockingbird0 ( talk) 23:25, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
Gregorian year | Golden number | Hebrew year | Year of Jewish cycle | Gregorian Easter | Rabbinic Nisan 15 |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
2201 | 17 | 5961 | 14 | April 19 | April 19 |
2202 | 18 | 5962 | 15 | April 11 | April 8 |
2203 | 19 | 5963 | 16 | April 3 | March 29 |
2204 | 1 | 5964 | 17 | April 22 | April 17 |
2205 | 2 | 5965 | 18 | April 7 | April 6 |
2206 | 3 | 5966 | 19 | March 30 | April 24 |
2207 | 4 | 5967 | 1 | April 19 | April 14 |
2208 | 5 | 5968 | 2 | April 3 | April 2 |
2209 | 6 | 5969 | 3 | March 26 | April 20 |
2210 | 7 | 5970 | 4 | April 15 | April 10 |
2211 | 8 | 5971 | 5 | March 31 | March 30 |
2212 | 9 | 5972 | 6 | April 19 | April 18 |
2213 | 10 | 5973 | 7 | April 11 | April 6 |
2214 | 11 | 5974 | 8 | March 27 | April 26 |
2215 | 12 | 5975 | 9 | April 16 | April 15 |
2216 | 13 | 5976 | 10 | April 7 | April 4 |
2217 | 14 | 5977 | 11 | March 30 | April 22 |
2218 | 15 | 5978 | 12 | April 12 | April 11 |
2219 | 16 | 5979 | 13 | April 4 | April 1 |
The Article has : "To prevent any differences developing in the dating of Easter, the Catholic Church has compiled tables for Easter, which are based on the ecclesiastical rules described above. All affiliated churches celebrate Easter in accordance with these tables."
I don't think that clearly expresses whatever the situation is.
That, if it remains, needs an immediately-visible link, perhaps via a footnote, to authoritative and legible versions of those Catholic Tables.
There should be a corresponding statement for the Anglican Church, since the ultimate Anglican authority (Prayer Book / Calendar Act) expresses the calculation in a manner which is only moderately like that of the ultimate Catholic authority (the Bull and Canons of 1582). Its corresponding link should not currently be to the Statute Law Database.
82.163.24.100 ( talk) 23:32, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
I suggest that the trimming robot be invited to operate here. 82.163.24.100 ( talk) 23:32, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
The head of the article gives the dates of nearby Easters, Eastern and Western. It says that next years' are on the same date. Actually, they are on the same Gregorian date and the same day; the Julian and Gregorian dates differ next year. IMHO, the type of date should be indicated. That will become even more important after 2100-02-29, when one will not be able to tell whether an Easter date is Julian or Gregorian by knowing that it must represent a Sunday. 82.163.24.100 ( talk) 20:13, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
My daily life interferes too much for me to get too involved, but I'll just echo what was said above. This article's focus is clearly on the Christian holiday, rather than on the larger meta-holiday that is pagan, secular, and christian. The article is upfront about this focus: "This article is about the Christian religious festival." The article dutifully tacks on a mention here or there that other peoples, passed and present, have celebrated the holiday along the way and have different traditions for its celebration-- but these are mostly asides; the Christian religious festival is clearly the primary and most central focus of the current article.
Nothing wrong with that, but there should also be an article on Easter from a culturally neutral point of view. What Easter _primarily_ is-- secular or pagan or christian, probably can't be stated definitively. A US court [1] ruled, for example, that Easter is primarily a secular holiday. Hundreds of millions of Christians would say it's primarily a secular holiday. Cultural anthropologists, looking at eggs and bunnies and candy and the name, might say it first and foremost a pre-christian Spring holiday.
The current article doesn't try to strike a balance-- it definitely focuses first and foremost on the Christian holiday. It's an entirely defensible decision, but I doubt it's a fully neutral point of view.
I'm not in a position to try to fix it, but I'd encourage the next person who comes along and concurs to try to help the article find a better balance, farming out some content to Easter (Christian festival) as needed. -- Alecmconroy ( talk) 10:43, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
We note that we find nothing in the record or otherwise that indicates that Easter, the holiest day in all of Christendom, is, as the district court concluded, “a highly secularized holiday.” The anecdotal evidence in the record before us concerning the secularization of Easter proves nothing. Neither Koenick's reliance on the deeply religious aspects of Easter for practicing Christians nor the Board's recitation of the many seemingly secular events surrounding the day evidence the level of secularization of the holiday. See Lynch v. Donnelly, 465 U.S. 668, 675, 685-86, 104 S.Ct. 1355, 79 L.Ed.2d 604 (1984) (Christmas does not have to lose its religious significance for believers in order to be considered a secular holiday); County of Allegheny v. ACLU, 492 U.S. 573, 633, 109 S.Ct. 3086, 106 L.Ed.2d 472 (1989) (O'Connor, J., concurring) (“The Easter holiday celebrated by Christians may be accompanied by certain ‘secular aspects' such as Easter bunnies and Easter egg hunts; but it is nevertheless a religious holiday.” ). What is necessary to prove Easter's secularization is evidence of the numbers of persons who observe the holiday in a purely secular way-that is, the number of persons for whom the holiday has no religious significance but who nonetheless celebrate the occasion in some manner. See, e.g., County of Allegheny, 492 U.S. at 585, 616-17, 109 S.Ct. 3086 (noting that many Americans have a Christmas tree in their home or otherwise celebrate Christmas or Chanukah “without regard to [their] religious significance” ). This record is devoid of such evidence. Accordingly, unlike the district court, we do not base our holding on a finding that Easter is a secular holiday.
Koenick v. Felton 190 F.3d 259 (4th Cir. 1999) Wow, look at that! Then, the US Supreme Court refused to hear the case. 528 U.S. 1118 (2000) Guess the law in the United States is that Easter is a religious holiday and not a secular one. I would suggest someone should edit the article to reflect the Federal recognition of this fact. Here is a thought: maybe it should have a greater religious point of view seeing that it is a religious topic. 76.99.55.47 ( talk) 02:52, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
The Article currently includes Their proposals include always observing Easter on the second Sunday in April, or always having seven Sundays between the Epiphany and Ash Wednesday, producing the same result except that in leap years Easter could fall on April 7.
To keep Easter on a Sunday, such proposals must necessarily allow seven or more Gregorian month-day dates. The unimplemented UK Easter Act 1928, for example, uses the Sunday after the second Saturday in April (April 9th-15th). The above "seven Sundays between" uses eight month-day dates.
It would be better to choose the Sunday of the fifteenth ISO 8601 week of the year - a truly fixed date, mapping on to April 12th-18th for common years and April 11th-17th for Leap Years. It would be as if the Paschal Full Moon date were always the 101st day of the year (100 days after New Year's Day), April 11th or 10th respectively.
Diaries commonly show, and businesses commonly use, ISO week-numbering.
82.163.24.100 ( talk) 23:30, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
Someone has put an "unpublished synthesis" banner over the section "Easter in the Early Church".
I have never been very satisfied with the wording of the citation to Socrates that opens that section and would happily revise it if that is the reason for the banner.
But in any case, if whoever posted the banner doesn't show up soon and support the action on this talk board, I intend to delete the banner.-- Mockingbird0 ( talk) 02:36, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Are we reading the same article? The statement that "others felt that the customary practice of consulting Jews should continue, even if the Jewish computations were in error" if followed immediately by a quotation from a primary source which expresses precisely that opinion.-- Mockingbird0 ( talk) 03:33, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
"Eusebius reports that Dionysius, Bishop of Alexandria, proposed an 8-year Easter cycle, and quotes a letter from Anatolius, Bishop of Laodicea, that refers to a 19-year cycle. Eusebius, Church History, 7.20, 7.31. An 8-year cycle has been found inscribed on a statue unearthed in Rome in the 17th century, dated to the third century. Allen Brent, Hippolytus and the Roman Church in the Third Century, Leiden, E.J. Brill, 1995."
The citation to 7.20 and 7.31 is given in support of the statement that some Christians began to experiment with independent computations, as anyone can see. The statement that some were dissatisfied is supported by the earlier citations.
The Audiani (who were a schism, not a heresy) are accurately called "others." They became schismatics precisely because they wanted to continue the custom of following the Jewish calendar.
The Hebrew calendar now puts Passover always after the equinox. In the 3rd and 4th centuries, it didn't.-- Mockingbird0 ( talk) 13:52, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Easter is the most important religious feast in the Christian liturgical year. In Christian mythology, Jesus was resurrected from the dead three days 2 after his crucifixion. Many Christian denominations celebrate this resurrection on Easter Day or Easter Sunday (also Resurrection Day or Resurrection Sunday), two days after Good Friday. The chronology of his death and resurrection is variously interoperated to be between the years 26 and 36 A.D. Easter also refers to the season of the church year called Eastertide or the Easter Season. Traditionally the Easter Season lasted for the forty days from Easter Day until Ascension Day but now officially lasts for the fifty days until Pentecost. The first week of the Easter Season is known as Easter Week or the Octave of Easter. Easter also marks the end of Lent, a season of prayer and penance. Easter is a moveable feast, meaning it is not fixed in relation to the civil calendar. Easter falls at some point between late March and late April each year (early April to early May in Eastern Christianity), following the cycle of the Moon. After several centuries of disagreement, all churches accepted the computation of the Alexandrian Church (now the Coptic Church) that Easter is the first Sunday after the Paschal Full Moon, which is the first moon whose 14th day (the ecclesiastic "full moon") is on or after March 21 (the ecclesiastic "vernal equinox"). Easter is linked to the Jewish Passover not only for much of its symbolism but also for its position in the calendar. It is also linked to Spring Break, a secular school holiday (customarily a week long) celebrated at various times across North America, and characterized by road trips and bacchanalia. Cultural elements, such as the Easter Bunny, have become part of the holiday's modern celebrations, and those aspects are often celebrated by many Christians and non-Christians alike. There are also some Christian denominations who do not celebrate Easter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.195.183.212 ( talk) 08:12, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
"A similar tradition existed in Poland (where it is called Dyngus Day), but it is now little more than an all-day water fight." and where's the source for this please? Luggerhead ( talk) 10:51, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
{{
editsemiprotected}}
Recommend the following clarification edit. From:
determining the date of Orthodox Easter is also March 21 according to the Julian reckoning, resulting in the divergence in the date of Easter in most years. (see table)
To:
determining the date of Orthodox Easter is also March 21, but according to the Julian reckoning, which corresponds to April 4th on the Gregorian calendar, resulting in the divergence in the date of Easter in most years. (see table)
Petervog (
talk)
18:31, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
The new wording is better overall. However, the 13-day difference causes the divergence only in 5 years out of 19, which can't be said to be "most" years. In other years, the divergence is due to the differences on the lunar side. I have modified the passage to include mention of the lunar discrepancy's contribution.-- Mockingbird0 ( talk) 21:06, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
"Easter is linked to the Jewish Passover not only for much of its symbolism but also for its position in the calendar." erm, it's pretty much completely unrelated especially in symbolism, i challange you to find a depiction of the cross in any celebration of the passover, being roughly the same time of the year is coincidental, this is like saying christmass is related to hanakah (sp?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.6.5.186 ( talk) 00:17, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
In the section "Etymology" the phrase "and that feasts held her in honor" should read "and that feasts held in her honor." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.178.118.222 ( talk) 04:13, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Why is there a * next to the 2009 Easter date in the two tables? 76.67.210.125 ( talk) 12:42, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
I reckon it is because that is THIS YEARS date ! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.13.86.63 ( talk) 20:07, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
::you guys need a star for that?? really? 76.67.210.125 ( talk) 11:42, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
I dunno - looks like original research to me. Where's the reliable source that we are actually in the year 2009? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 11:45, 13 April 2009 (UTC) Oh. Never mind. :)
Easter is just like Christmas in a way. Families get together and celebrate for religious reasons or just to come together. Even if you dont celebrate it consider it a day of just family fun activities. HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!! -- Soccerchick9 ( talk) 13:19, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Maybe I didnt red article well enough? Wasnt Easter from Asarte I beleive???? A Pagan holiday of sopringtime first thanks!(Dr. Edson Andre' Johnson D>D>ULC> sP.M.Sn.April12,200921stCentury) Andreisme ( talk) 02:46, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
There are lots of urban legends about the "pagan origins" of Easter. White the article could perhaps note their existence, if it is to be factual it should not give credence to them. SteveH ( talk) 04:03, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
If I may jump in: "Easter" is only it's name in English, and it most certainly has nothing to do with the Syro-Phoenician goddess Astarte. The Anglo-Saxons called it Easter because it occurred during their month of Oestermonath - "the month of buds (or opening)". Apart from a single reference by Bede there is absolutely not one shred of evidence that there was every a pagan goddess of spring or fertility worshipped by that name or any similar name anywhere in Britain or on the Continent. The feast of the Resurrection (Pascha) was not an adopted pagan holiday either. There is no evidence of such a pagan festival coinciding with Passover, and all those supposed "dying and resurrected gods of spring" in the Near East weren't: most never died, and those who did weren't ever resurrected. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.25.43.63 ( talk) 11:25, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
What "Christian slant?" The article is about a Christian holiday. It must explain Christianity's view of its own holiday in order to be accurate and informative. This is not a "slant". It is fact. -- Mockingbird0 ( talk) 15:54, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
So far as I'm aware, there are four different 'pagan origin of Easter' theories, and I'm curious which one the current batch of pagan-Easter editors support:
Which is it? Ben ( talk) 20:34, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm for giving the "pagan origins" hacks a few more days to come up with credible evidence from credible sources. But if what we've seen here is the best they can do, the tag should come down. The dispute will have been resolved by sensible people concluding that those who put up the tag didn't have a leg to stand on.-- Mockingbird0 ( talk) 02:37, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Pagan origins of Easter:
The name "Easter" originated with the names of an ancient Goddess and God. The Venerable Bede, (672-735 CE.) a Christian scholar, first asserted in his book De Ratione Temporum that Easter was named after Eostre (a.k.a. Eastre). She was the Great Mother Goddess of the Saxon people in Northern Europe. Similarly, the "Teutonic dawn goddess of fertility [was] known variously as Ostare, Ostara, Ostern, Eostra, Eostre, Eostur, Eastra, Eastur, Austron and Ausos." 1 Her name was derived from the ancient word for spring: "eastre." Similar Goddesses were known by other names in ancient cultures around the Mediterranean, and were celebrated in the springtime. Some were:
Aphrodite from ancient Cyprus Astoreth from Ancient Israel Astart from Ancient Greece Dememter from Mycenae Astaroth from Ancient Egypt Ishtar from Assyria Kali, from India Ostara, a Norse goddess of fertility
An alternative explanation has been suggested. The name given by the Frankish church to Jesus' resurrection festival included the Latin word "alba" which means "white." (This was a reference to the white robes that were worn during the festival.) "Alba" also has a second meaning: "sunrise." When the name of the festival was translated into German, the "sunrise" meaning was selected in error. This became "ostern" in German. Ostern has been proposed as the origin of the word "Easter". 2
Many, perhaps most, Pagan religions in the Mediterranean area had a major seasonal day of religious celebration at or following the Spring Equinox. Cybele, the Phrygian fertility goddess, had a fictional consort who was believed to have been born via a virgin birth. He was Attis, who was believed to have died and been resurrected each year during the period MAR-22 to MAR-25. "About 200 B.C. mystery cults began to appear in Rome just as they had earlier in Greece. Most notable was the Cybele cult centered on Vatican hill ...Associated with the Cybele cult was that of her lover, Attis (the older Tammuz, Osiris, Dionysus, or Orpheus under a new name). He was a god of ever-reviving vegetation. Born of a virgin, he died and was reborn annually. The festival began as a day of blood on Black Friday and culminated after three days in a day of rejoicing over the resurrection." 3
Wherever Christian worship of Jesus and Pagan worship of Attis were active in the same geographical area in ancient times, Christians "used to celebrate the death and resurrection of Jesus on the same date; and pagans and Christians used to quarrel bitterly about which of their gods was the true prototype and which the imitation."
Many religious historians believe that the death and resurrection legends were first associated with Attis, many centuries before the birth of Jesus. They were simply grafted onto stories of Jesus' life in order to make Christian theology more acceptable to Pagans. Others suggest that many of the events in Jesus' life that were recorded in the gospels were lifted from the life of Krishna, the second person of the Hindu Trinity. Ancient Christians had an alternative explanation; they claimed that Satan had created counterfeit deities in advance of the coming of Christ in order to confuse humanity. 4 Modern-day Christians generally regard the Attis legend as being a Pagan myth of little value. They regard Jesus' death and resurrection account as being true, and unrelated to the earlier tradition.
Wiccans and other modern-day Neopagans continue to celebrate the Spring Equinox as one of their 8 yearly Sabbats (holy days of celebration). Near the Mediterranean, this is a time of sprouting of the summer's crop; farther north, it is the time for seeding. Their rituals at the Spring Equinox are related primarily to the fertility of the crops and to the balance of the day and night times. Where Wiccans can safely celebrate the Sabbat out of doors without threat of religious persecution, they often incorporate a bonfire into their rituals, jumping over the dying embers is believed to assure fertility of people and crops.
1. Larry Boemler "Asherah and Easter," Biblical Archaeology Review, Vol. 18, Number 3, 1992-May/June reprinted at: http://www.worldmissions.org/Clipper/Holidays/EasterAndAsherah.htm 2. Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod Q & A Set 15, "Why do we celebrate a festival called Easter?" at: http://www.wels.net/sab/text/qa/qa15.html 3. Gerald L. Berry, "Religions of the World," Barns & Noble, (1956). 4. J Farrar & S. Farrar, "Eight Sabbats for Witches," Phoenix, Custer, WA, (1988). 5. "Sunna," TeenWitch at: http://www.teenwitch.com 6. "Dies Solis and other Latin Names for the Days of the Week," Logo Files, at: http://www.logofiles.com/ 7. "Sunday Observance," Latin Mass News, at: http://www.unavoceca.org/ 122.110.180.146 ( talk) 10:51, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
I have to dispute alba, what I presume to be the feminine form of albus, to have an alternative meaning of "sunrise." Of all the years I have studied Latin, I have never come across that meaning. [4] We have two sources using albus in reference to the sun: Cicero uses it (so another source says) as an epithet for both the sun and moon, and another source describes the "bright, white radiance of Hyperion." Neither of these two references are to oriens or orientalis, sunrise. Albus means white, not sunrise. It is completely false that there would be a problem translating alba into German with the fictitious dawn meaning. Gx872op ( talk) 08:03, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
The artcle gives too much honour to the Ostara-speculation of the German romantic area. For generations there has not been a scholar in the German speaking academia who still upholds Ostara as being valid (cf de:Ostern). This was a pure assumption by Grimm. As far as Eostre is concerned I am not familiar with the scholarly debate in English but in German it is at most looked at as a possibility but with no more probabilty that Bede just guessed; I live where the Angles and Saxons came from and there is no trace of a former "Eostre/Ostara" over here. Definitely the claim that "pre-Christian Saxons had a spring goddess called Eostre, whose feast was held on the Vernal Equinox, around 21 March. Her animal was the spring hare" (so the present article) has no factual base and is pure phantasy. Cf Eostre.
Nothing at all is known about an Eostre except her being mentioned once by Bede. -- Kipala ( talk) 15:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Pink bunny is not appropriate for essentialy religious celebration. All other pictures are religious. Somebody was too interested in rodents. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.83.241.4 ( talk) 11:08, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. Bunnies and coloured eggs are just local custom. And I never heard of people dressing in pink costumes as typical or any part of Easter. It felt like prank on Christians (in Europe this would be a symbol of gay movement). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.83.241.4 ( talk) 23:49, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
(outdent) as a bare minimum, the article should explain that the traditions and english name of easter are secular. Further, it should also explain the origins of christian easter myths Andrewjlockley ( talk) 00:16, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
It's been a week with no attributed arguments from "pagan Easter" editors. Can we strip the NPOV tag from the article now? Ben ( talk) 12:13, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
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In Northen Transsylvania, during the Easter's Monday, perfume or perfumed water is often sprinkled by men (especially young men) on women (especially not married women) in exchange for an Easter egg (red egg or painted egg). The sprinkled perfume or perfumed water is meant to "increase the atractivness and the beauty" of the "flower" (woman).
During the Third Easter's Day, the highlanders from Tara Motilor used to congregate on mountain tops (in fact mountain plateaus) in Apuseni Mountains for popular feasts (named "nedeea"). Some of the feasts included semi-ritualized free fights between local men. One of the most popular Easter feast spot was (until the late "80) the "Feast at the Manuntelu Cross", located on a scenic mountain top plateau, 5 km South from Campeni municipality.
These customs, some of them with pre-Christian origin, are tending to be lost during the latest years of the 20th century. My sugestion is to mention that facts on the Easter's edit. Happy Easters ! user: Transsylvanian
Please insure that the informations are real. Romania,first of all is not a slavic country,do not be misslead by Romania's geographic location. Please do check before writing!!!!! In what regards the traditions,all the information given are valid and real. Transilvania is a part of Romania,but it holds plenty of minorities,reasons of which there are more and diverse traditions for all the religious celebrations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.200.2.20 ( talk) 03:37, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
There is no conflict between John and the Synoptics concerning the Last Supper and the crucifixion occuring on 14 Nisan. Matthew 26:17, Mark 14:12, and Luke 22:7 say that it was the first day of Unleavened Bread, so you would assume thats 15 Nisan. But both Mark and Luke in the same verses say that it was when the Passover lamb is sacrificed, which is the Preparation Day 14 Nisan. In Mark 15:42-47 and Luke 23:50-55 it is the Preparation Day when Jesus is taken down from the cross and buried - sunset to sunset, the same day as the Last Supper. Matthew 26:17 just says that the Last Supper was on the first day of Unleavened Bread. But like its fellow Synoptics we know its 14 Nisan from Matthew 27:62-66. We are told that the day after the crucifixion is the day after the Preparation Day. The Pharisees go to Pilate and convince him to put a guard at the tomb. The confusion arises because the Synoptics equate the first day of Unleavened Bread with the Preparation Day. The first Christians knew this and commemorated the crucifixion on 14 Nisan. Barney Hill ( talk) 21:53, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
Since I was discussing confusion about Holy Week, in my opinion Jesus wasn't crucified on a Friday. Good Friday comes from the mistaken belief that the sabbath after the crucifixion was the regular Saturday sabbath. John 19:31 says it was a special or great sabbath. If the crucifixion was on Preparation Day then the great sabbath has to be the Passover sabbath. Since Jesus said he would rise in three days, the crucifixion had to take place on a Wednesday for the Sunday resurrection. Barney Hill ( talk) 22:15, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
It says, under the icon picture, "Date First Sunday after the first full moon on or after March 21". That's misleading; it is not the real Full Moon, which in any case occurs on different local dates in different parts of the world. Granted, the main text has correct details; but I think that the term "Ecclesiastical Full Moon" should be used to indicate that there is something non-standard about it. 82.163.24.100 ( talk) 12:43, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
It says that there are 35 possible dates for Gregorian Easter Sunday, March 22 to April 25, which is of course correct for yyyy-MM-DD dates. There are 36 possible Ordinal Dates (yyyy-DDD), 081 to 116. There are only 6 possible ISO Week Numbering dates, yyyy-W12-7 to yyyy-W17-7. http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/estrdate.htm#SC 82.163.24.100 ( talk) 13:11, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Still related to the 35 possible dates above, it says that "... the Paschal full moon (the 14th of that lunar month) must fall on a date from March 21 to April 18 inclusive." Where does the date in the sentence "Accordingly, Gregorian Easter can fall on 35 possible dates - between March 22 and April 25 inclusive." came from? I'm reading Computus but cannot find the answer there either. Bennylin ( talk) 05:04, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
This image should be in this article somewhere. Directly relevant to Easter.
69.104.122.96 ( talk) 20:18, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
This recently-added passage
The dates of Easter and Passover usually fall within a week or so of each other, but in years 3, 11, and 14 of the 19-year metonic cycle, which is used in the Hebrew calendar, Passover will fall about a month after the (Gregorian) Easter. This is because the metonic cycle does not correspond entirely to the length of the tropical year. So, over the centuries the date of the vernal equinox (which is March 21 by Christian reckoning) has been drifting to later and later dates in relation to the metonic cycle. In ancient times this was not a problem since Passover was set by actual observations of the New Moon and of the vernal equinox. However, after Hillel II standardized the Hebrew calendar in the 4th century, actual observations of celestial events no longer played a part in the determination of the date of Passover. The Gregorian calendar reform of 1582 brought the Western Church back into line with the astronomical cycle. Similarly, because of the interplay of these variables, Orthodox Easter occurs about a month after Gregorian Easter in years 3, 8, 11, 14 and 19 of the metonic cycle. In three of these years (years 3, 11 and 14), Passover also falls about a month after Gregorian Easter.
Contains multiple problems:
-- Mockingbird0 ( talk) 14:10, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
The statement that the breaching of the rule of the equinox by the Jewish calendar in the late 3rd/early 4th century was "not intentional" cannot be supported. In the case of the Jewish community recorded in the Sardica paschal table it clearly was intentional: the Jews of that city did not have a rule of the equinox. The Babylonian Talmud attributes a rule of the equinox to the 4th-century Rabbi Huna ben Avin (b. Rosh Hashana 21a) but it is not clear that this rule was consistently followed even in Rabbinic circles at this early peariod. The Rabbinic calendar didn't reach its present form until around the 8th/9th century CE.-- Mockingbird0 ( talk) 14:45, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
Rwflammang ( talk · contribs) is pushing to have the etymology section bumped down far into the body rather than the usual front and center convention we see on Wikipedia. Generally, we have the etymology section as the first thing in the article when there's material for it. Rwflammang, please state your reasoning for this so we can discuss it rather than going through a pointless revert war. :bloodofox: ( talk) 18:03, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
After longer than "quick search", I cannot be certain what "14th day of moon" means - no less "first 14th". I think it probably means 14th day after new moon - but it could be 14th day after first crescent. I doubt it is 14th day after full, but others might easily read it that way - explanation needed somewhere -- JimWae ( talk) 18:41, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
It may be of interest that the very young crescent is easiest to see from the northern hemisphere when the sun and moon are near the spring equinox, since the moon's elevation above the horizon (as seen from the temperate northern hemisphere) increases most rapidly with her elongation from the sun at this point in the sky. Here is a picture of this year's new Paschal crescent: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080315.html -- Mockingbird0 ( talk) 05:11, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps User:Mockingbird0 would care to explain to us why the term Feast of Unleavened Bread is preferable to its synonym, Passover? Passover is by far the more common and less wordy term. People are much more likely to know what it means without consulting a dictionary. I prefer Passover, myself. Rwflammang ( talk) 16:29, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
Since the section of the article discussing the relationship between calendars is inherently computistical, the distinction should be maintained there.-- Mockingbird0 ( talk) 21:23, 15 October 2008 (UTC)Primum ergo diem azymorum appellat eum in quo exercitum eorum esset educturus de Aegypto. Constat autem quia non quartadecima die, in cuius vespera agnus est immmolatus, et quae proprie Pascha sive Phase dicitur; sed quintadecima sunt educti ex Aegypto. (He calls it the first day of Unleavened Bread in which he was to bring their host out of Egypt. But it is clear that they were not brought out on the 14th day, in the evening of which the lamb was slain, and which is rightly called the Passover or Phase; but on the 15th day they were brought out of Egypt.)
Just a thought: are we sure we are taking into account that the Jewish religious day begins at sunset? Thus, the evening of the fifteenth day of the moon is on the fourteenth day of the moon when reckoned with civil days. — Gareth Hughes ( talk) 23:33, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
I have read this section on the relationship of the date of Easter to Passover, trying to understand what is being asserted, and I can say that in its present form it makes absolutely no sense to me. It explains nothing. It uses terminology which only Mockingbird0 seems to know. Perhaps we should revert to plain English such as (in outline form only): the Jewish calendar uses strict astronomical phenomena of the equinox, full moon etc in the determination of Passover (see Hebrew calendar). Easter, on the other hand, is determined using the fixed date of March 21 as the equinox date (irrespective of the actual astronomical date) and using its particular 19-year lunisolar calendar cycle which runs independent from the actual astronomical equinox by inserting the intercalary lunar month at set points of its 19-year cycle, which is different to the 19-year metonic cycle used by the Jewish calendar...
Mockingbird0 seems to be obtaining his material from some unnamed source. If that is the case, I would appreciate its citation, to enable me to refer to it to understand what he is "trying" to say. I was the one who tagged his material as "dubious", which I still think is the case, and his table does not seem to really explain the assertion.
In the third place, I am beginning to get very uncomfortable to his repeated use of the adjective "Rabbinic". I know that the modern Jewish calculation-based calendar was a product of rabbinic Judaism, but it is now the normative calendar in use by all Jewish communities, with some small exceptions. It is not the rabbis' calendar nor is Nissan 15 nor whatever. I would like to know where his terminology, including his repeated use of the term Feast of Unleavened Bread is coming from. It's from no source that I know of.
Lastly, though it may be interesting that the paschal lamb was sacrificed on the 14th, etc, what has that got to do with the relationship between the two holidays? Whether Passover starts on Nissan 14 or 15 makes no difference in this context. So what is the point of the paragraph on the seder, or Maundy Thursday? Ewawer ( talk) 23:56, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
Likewise Philo:On the fourteenth day of the first month is the Lord's passover. And on the fifteenth day of this month is a feast; seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten. (Numbers 28.16).
Likewise Josephus:[On] the Crossing-feast, which the Hebrews in their native tongue call Pascha...many myriads of victims from noon till eventide are offered by the whole people...The day on which this national festivity occurs may very properly be noted. It is the 14th day of the month....With the Crossing-feast [Moses] combines one in which the food consumed is of a different and unfamiliar kind, namely, unleavened bread, which also gives its name to the feast....The feast begins at the middle of the month, on the fifteenth day, when the moon is full [and] is held for seven days... (Special Laws II.27-28).
In addition, as I have tried to show, the distinction between the Passover and the Days of Unleavened Bread is important in the literature of the computus and the Easter controversies. In an article about Easter it seems prudent to maintain this distinction.In the month of Xanthicus, which with us is called Nisan and begins the year, on the fourteenth day by lunar reckoning, the sun being then in Aries, our lawgiver, seeing that in this month we were delivered from bondage to the Egyptians, ordained that we should year by year offer the same sacrifice which....we offered then on departure from Egypt-the sacrifices called Pascha. And so in fact we celebrate it by fraternities, nothing of the sacrificial victims being kept for the morrow. On the fifteenth the Passover is followed up by the Feast of Unleavened Bread, lasting seven days, during which our people subsist on unleavened loaves... (Antiquities 3.10.5).
The deviation [of the Hebrew calendar] from the true astronomical figure is very slight as far as the lunar month is concerned, and therefore the Hebrew calendar months still follow the course of the moon quite closely in our time. The difference between the traditional length of the sun year and the respective astronomical figure is,however, not negligible and causes the Hebrew months to advance against the sun approximately 4 1/2 days in a thousand years For example, we celebrate Pesah 4 1/2 days later, on the average, than our ancestors did 1000 years ago at the time of Saadia Gaon.
Ewawer claims to have certain knowledge that "most Jews would not even know what the Feast of Unleavened Bread is." Yet the kiddush open the seder says quite plainly, "Thou hast given us in love the day of this Feast of Unleavened Bread and this festival of holy convocation, the season of our freedom, in commemoration of the out-going from Egypt." The festival amidah that is used on some of the Days of Unleavened Bread likewise contains the phrase "Feast of Unleavened Bread (hag ha-matzoth), the season of our freedom." So some folk apparently haven't gotten word that Ewawer thinks they aren't supposed to know this phrase.-- Mockingbird0 ( talk) 01:46, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
Someone marked as "dubious" the statement that in the years 2200-2299, Rabbinic Nisan 15 will be 1 lunation later than Easter in 4 years out of 19, instead of in only 3, as now. Here, to demonstrate that it is so, are 19 years in the period 2200-2299.-- Mockingbird0 ( talk) 23:25, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
Gregorian year | Golden number | Hebrew year | Year of Jewish cycle | Gregorian Easter | Rabbinic Nisan 15 |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
2201 | 17 | 5961 | 14 | April 19 | April 19 |
2202 | 18 | 5962 | 15 | April 11 | April 8 |
2203 | 19 | 5963 | 16 | April 3 | March 29 |
2204 | 1 | 5964 | 17 | April 22 | April 17 |
2205 | 2 | 5965 | 18 | April 7 | April 6 |
2206 | 3 | 5966 | 19 | March 30 | April 24 |
2207 | 4 | 5967 | 1 | April 19 | April 14 |
2208 | 5 | 5968 | 2 | April 3 | April 2 |
2209 | 6 | 5969 | 3 | March 26 | April 20 |
2210 | 7 | 5970 | 4 | April 15 | April 10 |
2211 | 8 | 5971 | 5 | March 31 | March 30 |
2212 | 9 | 5972 | 6 | April 19 | April 18 |
2213 | 10 | 5973 | 7 | April 11 | April 6 |
2214 | 11 | 5974 | 8 | March 27 | April 26 |
2215 | 12 | 5975 | 9 | April 16 | April 15 |
2216 | 13 | 5976 | 10 | April 7 | April 4 |
2217 | 14 | 5977 | 11 | March 30 | April 22 |
2218 | 15 | 5978 | 12 | April 12 | April 11 |
2219 | 16 | 5979 | 13 | April 4 | April 1 |
The Article has : "To prevent any differences developing in the dating of Easter, the Catholic Church has compiled tables for Easter, which are based on the ecclesiastical rules described above. All affiliated churches celebrate Easter in accordance with these tables."
I don't think that clearly expresses whatever the situation is.
That, if it remains, needs an immediately-visible link, perhaps via a footnote, to authoritative and legible versions of those Catholic Tables.
There should be a corresponding statement for the Anglican Church, since the ultimate Anglican authority (Prayer Book / Calendar Act) expresses the calculation in a manner which is only moderately like that of the ultimate Catholic authority (the Bull and Canons of 1582). Its corresponding link should not currently be to the Statute Law Database.
82.163.24.100 ( talk) 23:32, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
I suggest that the trimming robot be invited to operate here. 82.163.24.100 ( talk) 23:32, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
The head of the article gives the dates of nearby Easters, Eastern and Western. It says that next years' are on the same date. Actually, they are on the same Gregorian date and the same day; the Julian and Gregorian dates differ next year. IMHO, the type of date should be indicated. That will become even more important after 2100-02-29, when one will not be able to tell whether an Easter date is Julian or Gregorian by knowing that it must represent a Sunday. 82.163.24.100 ( talk) 20:13, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
My daily life interferes too much for me to get too involved, but I'll just echo what was said above. This article's focus is clearly on the Christian holiday, rather than on the larger meta-holiday that is pagan, secular, and christian. The article is upfront about this focus: "This article is about the Christian religious festival." The article dutifully tacks on a mention here or there that other peoples, passed and present, have celebrated the holiday along the way and have different traditions for its celebration-- but these are mostly asides; the Christian religious festival is clearly the primary and most central focus of the current article.
Nothing wrong with that, but there should also be an article on Easter from a culturally neutral point of view. What Easter _primarily_ is-- secular or pagan or christian, probably can't be stated definitively. A US court [1] ruled, for example, that Easter is primarily a secular holiday. Hundreds of millions of Christians would say it's primarily a secular holiday. Cultural anthropologists, looking at eggs and bunnies and candy and the name, might say it first and foremost a pre-christian Spring holiday.
The current article doesn't try to strike a balance-- it definitely focuses first and foremost on the Christian holiday. It's an entirely defensible decision, but I doubt it's a fully neutral point of view.
I'm not in a position to try to fix it, but I'd encourage the next person who comes along and concurs to try to help the article find a better balance, farming out some content to Easter (Christian festival) as needed. -- Alecmconroy ( talk) 10:43, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
We note that we find nothing in the record or otherwise that indicates that Easter, the holiest day in all of Christendom, is, as the district court concluded, “a highly secularized holiday.” The anecdotal evidence in the record before us concerning the secularization of Easter proves nothing. Neither Koenick's reliance on the deeply religious aspects of Easter for practicing Christians nor the Board's recitation of the many seemingly secular events surrounding the day evidence the level of secularization of the holiday. See Lynch v. Donnelly, 465 U.S. 668, 675, 685-86, 104 S.Ct. 1355, 79 L.Ed.2d 604 (1984) (Christmas does not have to lose its religious significance for believers in order to be considered a secular holiday); County of Allegheny v. ACLU, 492 U.S. 573, 633, 109 S.Ct. 3086, 106 L.Ed.2d 472 (1989) (O'Connor, J., concurring) (“The Easter holiday celebrated by Christians may be accompanied by certain ‘secular aspects' such as Easter bunnies and Easter egg hunts; but it is nevertheless a religious holiday.” ). What is necessary to prove Easter's secularization is evidence of the numbers of persons who observe the holiday in a purely secular way-that is, the number of persons for whom the holiday has no religious significance but who nonetheless celebrate the occasion in some manner. See, e.g., County of Allegheny, 492 U.S. at 585, 616-17, 109 S.Ct. 3086 (noting that many Americans have a Christmas tree in their home or otherwise celebrate Christmas or Chanukah “without regard to [their] religious significance” ). This record is devoid of such evidence. Accordingly, unlike the district court, we do not base our holding on a finding that Easter is a secular holiday.
Koenick v. Felton 190 F.3d 259 (4th Cir. 1999) Wow, look at that! Then, the US Supreme Court refused to hear the case. 528 U.S. 1118 (2000) Guess the law in the United States is that Easter is a religious holiday and not a secular one. I would suggest someone should edit the article to reflect the Federal recognition of this fact. Here is a thought: maybe it should have a greater religious point of view seeing that it is a religious topic. 76.99.55.47 ( talk) 02:52, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
The Article currently includes Their proposals include always observing Easter on the second Sunday in April, or always having seven Sundays between the Epiphany and Ash Wednesday, producing the same result except that in leap years Easter could fall on April 7.
To keep Easter on a Sunday, such proposals must necessarily allow seven or more Gregorian month-day dates. The unimplemented UK Easter Act 1928, for example, uses the Sunday after the second Saturday in April (April 9th-15th). The above "seven Sundays between" uses eight month-day dates.
It would be better to choose the Sunday of the fifteenth ISO 8601 week of the year - a truly fixed date, mapping on to April 12th-18th for common years and April 11th-17th for Leap Years. It would be as if the Paschal Full Moon date were always the 101st day of the year (100 days after New Year's Day), April 11th or 10th respectively.
Diaries commonly show, and businesses commonly use, ISO week-numbering.
82.163.24.100 ( talk) 23:30, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
Someone has put an "unpublished synthesis" banner over the section "Easter in the Early Church".
I have never been very satisfied with the wording of the citation to Socrates that opens that section and would happily revise it if that is the reason for the banner.
But in any case, if whoever posted the banner doesn't show up soon and support the action on this talk board, I intend to delete the banner.-- Mockingbird0 ( talk) 02:36, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Are we reading the same article? The statement that "others felt that the customary practice of consulting Jews should continue, even if the Jewish computations were in error" if followed immediately by a quotation from a primary source which expresses precisely that opinion.-- Mockingbird0 ( talk) 03:33, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
"Eusebius reports that Dionysius, Bishop of Alexandria, proposed an 8-year Easter cycle, and quotes a letter from Anatolius, Bishop of Laodicea, that refers to a 19-year cycle. Eusebius, Church History, 7.20, 7.31. An 8-year cycle has been found inscribed on a statue unearthed in Rome in the 17th century, dated to the third century. Allen Brent, Hippolytus and the Roman Church in the Third Century, Leiden, E.J. Brill, 1995."
The citation to 7.20 and 7.31 is given in support of the statement that some Christians began to experiment with independent computations, as anyone can see. The statement that some were dissatisfied is supported by the earlier citations.
The Audiani (who were a schism, not a heresy) are accurately called "others." They became schismatics precisely because they wanted to continue the custom of following the Jewish calendar.
The Hebrew calendar now puts Passover always after the equinox. In the 3rd and 4th centuries, it didn't.-- Mockingbird0 ( talk) 13:52, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Easter is the most important religious feast in the Christian liturgical year. In Christian mythology, Jesus was resurrected from the dead three days 2 after his crucifixion. Many Christian denominations celebrate this resurrection on Easter Day or Easter Sunday (also Resurrection Day or Resurrection Sunday), two days after Good Friday. The chronology of his death and resurrection is variously interoperated to be between the years 26 and 36 A.D. Easter also refers to the season of the church year called Eastertide or the Easter Season. Traditionally the Easter Season lasted for the forty days from Easter Day until Ascension Day but now officially lasts for the fifty days until Pentecost. The first week of the Easter Season is known as Easter Week or the Octave of Easter. Easter also marks the end of Lent, a season of prayer and penance. Easter is a moveable feast, meaning it is not fixed in relation to the civil calendar. Easter falls at some point between late March and late April each year (early April to early May in Eastern Christianity), following the cycle of the Moon. After several centuries of disagreement, all churches accepted the computation of the Alexandrian Church (now the Coptic Church) that Easter is the first Sunday after the Paschal Full Moon, which is the first moon whose 14th day (the ecclesiastic "full moon") is on or after March 21 (the ecclesiastic "vernal equinox"). Easter is linked to the Jewish Passover not only for much of its symbolism but also for its position in the calendar. It is also linked to Spring Break, a secular school holiday (customarily a week long) celebrated at various times across North America, and characterized by road trips and bacchanalia. Cultural elements, such as the Easter Bunny, have become part of the holiday's modern celebrations, and those aspects are often celebrated by many Christians and non-Christians alike. There are also some Christian denominations who do not celebrate Easter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.195.183.212 ( talk) 08:12, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
"A similar tradition existed in Poland (where it is called Dyngus Day), but it is now little more than an all-day water fight." and where's the source for this please? Luggerhead ( talk) 10:51, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
{{
editsemiprotected}}
Recommend the following clarification edit. From:
determining the date of Orthodox Easter is also March 21 according to the Julian reckoning, resulting in the divergence in the date of Easter in most years. (see table)
To:
determining the date of Orthodox Easter is also March 21, but according to the Julian reckoning, which corresponds to April 4th on the Gregorian calendar, resulting in the divergence in the date of Easter in most years. (see table)
Petervog (
talk)
18:31, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
The new wording is better overall. However, the 13-day difference causes the divergence only in 5 years out of 19, which can't be said to be "most" years. In other years, the divergence is due to the differences on the lunar side. I have modified the passage to include mention of the lunar discrepancy's contribution.-- Mockingbird0 ( talk) 21:06, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
"Easter is linked to the Jewish Passover not only for much of its symbolism but also for its position in the calendar." erm, it's pretty much completely unrelated especially in symbolism, i challange you to find a depiction of the cross in any celebration of the passover, being roughly the same time of the year is coincidental, this is like saying christmass is related to hanakah (sp?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.6.5.186 ( talk) 00:17, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
In the section "Etymology" the phrase "and that feasts held her in honor" should read "and that feasts held in her honor." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.178.118.222 ( talk) 04:13, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Why is there a * next to the 2009 Easter date in the two tables? 76.67.210.125 ( talk) 12:42, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
I reckon it is because that is THIS YEARS date ! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.13.86.63 ( talk) 20:07, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
::you guys need a star for that?? really? 76.67.210.125 ( talk) 11:42, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
I dunno - looks like original research to me. Where's the reliable source that we are actually in the year 2009? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 11:45, 13 April 2009 (UTC) Oh. Never mind. :)
Easter is just like Christmas in a way. Families get together and celebrate for religious reasons or just to come together. Even if you dont celebrate it consider it a day of just family fun activities. HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!! -- Soccerchick9 ( talk) 13:19, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Maybe I didnt red article well enough? Wasnt Easter from Asarte I beleive???? A Pagan holiday of sopringtime first thanks!(Dr. Edson Andre' Johnson D>D>ULC> sP.M.Sn.April12,200921stCentury) Andreisme ( talk) 02:46, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
There are lots of urban legends about the "pagan origins" of Easter. White the article could perhaps note their existence, if it is to be factual it should not give credence to them. SteveH ( talk) 04:03, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
If I may jump in: "Easter" is only it's name in English, and it most certainly has nothing to do with the Syro-Phoenician goddess Astarte. The Anglo-Saxons called it Easter because it occurred during their month of Oestermonath - "the month of buds (or opening)". Apart from a single reference by Bede there is absolutely not one shred of evidence that there was every a pagan goddess of spring or fertility worshipped by that name or any similar name anywhere in Britain or on the Continent. The feast of the Resurrection (Pascha) was not an adopted pagan holiday either. There is no evidence of such a pagan festival coinciding with Passover, and all those supposed "dying and resurrected gods of spring" in the Near East weren't: most never died, and those who did weren't ever resurrected. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.25.43.63 ( talk) 11:25, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
What "Christian slant?" The article is about a Christian holiday. It must explain Christianity's view of its own holiday in order to be accurate and informative. This is not a "slant". It is fact. -- Mockingbird0 ( talk) 15:54, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
So far as I'm aware, there are four different 'pagan origin of Easter' theories, and I'm curious which one the current batch of pagan-Easter editors support:
Which is it? Ben ( talk) 20:34, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm for giving the "pagan origins" hacks a few more days to come up with credible evidence from credible sources. But if what we've seen here is the best they can do, the tag should come down. The dispute will have been resolved by sensible people concluding that those who put up the tag didn't have a leg to stand on.-- Mockingbird0 ( talk) 02:37, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Pagan origins of Easter:
The name "Easter" originated with the names of an ancient Goddess and God. The Venerable Bede, (672-735 CE.) a Christian scholar, first asserted in his book De Ratione Temporum that Easter was named after Eostre (a.k.a. Eastre). She was the Great Mother Goddess of the Saxon people in Northern Europe. Similarly, the "Teutonic dawn goddess of fertility [was] known variously as Ostare, Ostara, Ostern, Eostra, Eostre, Eostur, Eastra, Eastur, Austron and Ausos." 1 Her name was derived from the ancient word for spring: "eastre." Similar Goddesses were known by other names in ancient cultures around the Mediterranean, and were celebrated in the springtime. Some were:
Aphrodite from ancient Cyprus Astoreth from Ancient Israel Astart from Ancient Greece Dememter from Mycenae Astaroth from Ancient Egypt Ishtar from Assyria Kali, from India Ostara, a Norse goddess of fertility
An alternative explanation has been suggested. The name given by the Frankish church to Jesus' resurrection festival included the Latin word "alba" which means "white." (This was a reference to the white robes that were worn during the festival.) "Alba" also has a second meaning: "sunrise." When the name of the festival was translated into German, the "sunrise" meaning was selected in error. This became "ostern" in German. Ostern has been proposed as the origin of the word "Easter". 2
Many, perhaps most, Pagan religions in the Mediterranean area had a major seasonal day of religious celebration at or following the Spring Equinox. Cybele, the Phrygian fertility goddess, had a fictional consort who was believed to have been born via a virgin birth. He was Attis, who was believed to have died and been resurrected each year during the period MAR-22 to MAR-25. "About 200 B.C. mystery cults began to appear in Rome just as they had earlier in Greece. Most notable was the Cybele cult centered on Vatican hill ...Associated with the Cybele cult was that of her lover, Attis (the older Tammuz, Osiris, Dionysus, or Orpheus under a new name). He was a god of ever-reviving vegetation. Born of a virgin, he died and was reborn annually. The festival began as a day of blood on Black Friday and culminated after three days in a day of rejoicing over the resurrection." 3
Wherever Christian worship of Jesus and Pagan worship of Attis were active in the same geographical area in ancient times, Christians "used to celebrate the death and resurrection of Jesus on the same date; and pagans and Christians used to quarrel bitterly about which of their gods was the true prototype and which the imitation."
Many religious historians believe that the death and resurrection legends were first associated with Attis, many centuries before the birth of Jesus. They were simply grafted onto stories of Jesus' life in order to make Christian theology more acceptable to Pagans. Others suggest that many of the events in Jesus' life that were recorded in the gospels were lifted from the life of Krishna, the second person of the Hindu Trinity. Ancient Christians had an alternative explanation; they claimed that Satan had created counterfeit deities in advance of the coming of Christ in order to confuse humanity. 4 Modern-day Christians generally regard the Attis legend as being a Pagan myth of little value. They regard Jesus' death and resurrection account as being true, and unrelated to the earlier tradition.
Wiccans and other modern-day Neopagans continue to celebrate the Spring Equinox as one of their 8 yearly Sabbats (holy days of celebration). Near the Mediterranean, this is a time of sprouting of the summer's crop; farther north, it is the time for seeding. Their rituals at the Spring Equinox are related primarily to the fertility of the crops and to the balance of the day and night times. Where Wiccans can safely celebrate the Sabbat out of doors without threat of religious persecution, they often incorporate a bonfire into their rituals, jumping over the dying embers is believed to assure fertility of people and crops.
1. Larry Boemler "Asherah and Easter," Biblical Archaeology Review, Vol. 18, Number 3, 1992-May/June reprinted at: http://www.worldmissions.org/Clipper/Holidays/EasterAndAsherah.htm 2. Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod Q & A Set 15, "Why do we celebrate a festival called Easter?" at: http://www.wels.net/sab/text/qa/qa15.html 3. Gerald L. Berry, "Religions of the World," Barns & Noble, (1956). 4. J Farrar & S. Farrar, "Eight Sabbats for Witches," Phoenix, Custer, WA, (1988). 5. "Sunna," TeenWitch at: http://www.teenwitch.com 6. "Dies Solis and other Latin Names for the Days of the Week," Logo Files, at: http://www.logofiles.com/ 7. "Sunday Observance," Latin Mass News, at: http://www.unavoceca.org/ 122.110.180.146 ( talk) 10:51, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
I have to dispute alba, what I presume to be the feminine form of albus, to have an alternative meaning of "sunrise." Of all the years I have studied Latin, I have never come across that meaning. [4] We have two sources using albus in reference to the sun: Cicero uses it (so another source says) as an epithet for both the sun and moon, and another source describes the "bright, white radiance of Hyperion." Neither of these two references are to oriens or orientalis, sunrise. Albus means white, not sunrise. It is completely false that there would be a problem translating alba into German with the fictitious dawn meaning. Gx872op ( talk) 08:03, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
The artcle gives too much honour to the Ostara-speculation of the German romantic area. For generations there has not been a scholar in the German speaking academia who still upholds Ostara as being valid (cf de:Ostern). This was a pure assumption by Grimm. As far as Eostre is concerned I am not familiar with the scholarly debate in English but in German it is at most looked at as a possibility but with no more probabilty that Bede just guessed; I live where the Angles and Saxons came from and there is no trace of a former "Eostre/Ostara" over here. Definitely the claim that "pre-Christian Saxons had a spring goddess called Eostre, whose feast was held on the Vernal Equinox, around 21 March. Her animal was the spring hare" (so the present article) has no factual base and is pure phantasy. Cf Eostre.
Nothing at all is known about an Eostre except her being mentioned once by Bede. -- Kipala ( talk) 15:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Pink bunny is not appropriate for essentialy religious celebration. All other pictures are religious. Somebody was too interested in rodents. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.83.241.4 ( talk) 11:08, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. Bunnies and coloured eggs are just local custom. And I never heard of people dressing in pink costumes as typical or any part of Easter. It felt like prank on Christians (in Europe this would be a symbol of gay movement). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.83.241.4 ( talk) 23:49, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
(outdent) as a bare minimum, the article should explain that the traditions and english name of easter are secular. Further, it should also explain the origins of christian easter myths Andrewjlockley ( talk) 00:16, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
It's been a week with no attributed arguments from "pagan Easter" editors. Can we strip the NPOV tag from the article now? Ben ( talk) 12:13, 30 April 2009 (UTC)