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ETA (separatist group) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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The terms " extremist", " terrorist" and " freedom fighter" should be avoided or used with care. Editors discussing the use of these terms are advised to familiarize themselves with the guideline, and discuss objections at the relevant talkpage, not here. If you feel this article represents an exception, then that discussion properly belongs here. |
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According to the article:
Afaik, it was exactly the opposite - "modern" ETA is ETA-V; it was ETA-VI (the winners of the VI Conference) that dissapeared, merging with the Trotskyist movemement-- 194.38.144.2 ( talk) 14:26, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
This
edit request to
ETA (separatist and terrorist group) has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
ETA was a terrorist organization, not just a separatist group. 136.173.162.129 ( talk) 15:28, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
ETA was classified as a terrorist group by Spain, France, the United Kingdom, the United States, Canada and the European Union. This convention was followed by a plurality of domestic and international media, which also referred to the group as "terrorists".-- MarioGom ( talk) 22:35, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
Any objections to this edit? https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=ETA_(separatist_group)&diff=852795421&oldid=852551709 80.111.16.75 ( talk) 13:07, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
ETA is known to have had 'fraternal' contacts with the Provisional Irish Republican Army; the two groups have both, at times, characterized their struggles as parallel. Links between the two groups go back to at least March 1974. [1] [2] ETA purchased Strela 2 surface-to-air missiles from the IRA and in 2001 unsuccessfully attempted to shoot down a jet carrying the Spanish Prime Minister, Jose Maria Aznar. [3] It has also had links with other militant left-wing movements in Europe and in other places throughout the world.
References
I do not know why my edit referring to ETA as a terrorist group is being removed by a biased user. ETA has been classified as a terrorist group by Spain, France, the United Kingdom, the United States, Canada, the European Union and many other states. Hiding this fact is biased and poorly informed. It should appear in the title loud and clear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheRectificator ( talk • contribs) 14:24, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
Omiting terrorist here would be an attempt to launder the organization and would constitute censorship. Truthslover ( talk) 01:35, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
Ignoring facts to whitewash a terrorist group is awful. These assassins and kidnappers committed murders, bombings, extortions, and threatened thousands of individuals for political gains. They were (are, as the disbandment was never confirmed by truly independent consultants) a terrorist organization. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.33.94.235 ( talk) 15:01, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
The emotion of your response is a good example of why terms like 'terrorist' are best avoided in an encyclopaedia. No one is denying the beastly nature of ETAs activities, however, Wikipedia is designed to describe, not to judge and describe it does. Virtually every such article whether it's on Al-Qaeda, the IRA or indeed ETA will list the various notable institutions that have proscribed them as terrorists. This is to my mind a much better system than having an emotional response. The near unanimous use of the term 'banda terrorista ETA' in Spanish media is much like the term 'IRA-Sinn Féin' used by Northern Irish Loyalists. Irrespective of how accurate such assignations may be, they come from a partisan position and are best avoided as a term of description by a neutral narrator. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.218.224.166 ( talk) 10:14, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
References
Brat Forelli🦊 18:20, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
Euskadi Ta Askatasuna is the official name, ETA is well known shortform. Correctly the tite has to be Euskadi Ta Askatasuna. Pleas change this. -- Outdoor-Bro ( talk) 22:35, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
No consensus, with consensus leaning against the proposed move. BD2412 T 02:37, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
ETA (separatist group) → Euskadi Ta Askatasuna – Rationale:
Using an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English reliable sources, albeit not as commonly as the preferred-but-ambiguous title, WP:ACRONYMTITLE:
Acronyms should be used in a page name if the subject is known primarily by its abbreviation [...]. One general exception to this rule deals with our strong preference for natural disambiguation.)
Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA)( [2]) but also
Euskadi Ta Askatasuna (ETA)( [3]), the Britannica starts is article as
ETA, abbreviation of Basque Euskadi Ta Askatasuna (“Basque Homeland and Liberty”)( [4]) and the BBC has used different forms, for example
ETA (Euskadi Ta Askatasuna, or Basque Homeland and Freedom( [5]). So English translations are usually Basque Homeland and Freedom, Basque Homeland and Liberty, Basque Fatherland and Liberty... none of them is really common. When the full name is used, it is usually the original Basque form (Euskadi Ta Askatasuna). -- MarioGom ( talk) 16:40, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
How is this pronounced in English? I've always heard it as English: /ˈeta/ like Spanish: [ˈeta], but I could see that others might pronounce it more like /ˈi:ta/. We have Basque and Spanish prononunciations but not English, which is a bit odd. Wktionary doesn't give pronunciations for any language. 85.238.91.68 ( talk) 07:10, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
I can't see why is ETA called a "separatist" group as it is clearly a terrorist gang: they killed innocents, threatened people, kidnaped to get money, were involved with drugs and arms trafficking... They used terror in every possible way to continue to exist, so they must be called terrorists. If you want facts to support this, you can just review newspapers and TV news since 1960. We, the Spanish people who have grown up in the period in which ETA was active, have not a a single doubt regarding their condition of terrorists, murders and criminals.
A separatist group it's a group of people who have separatist ideas and may even fight for them. That's not the case with ETA; at least not since Spanish democracy was stablished (late 1970's) and allowed separatist political parties (PNV and many others) to defend their ideas without murdering people. ETA is just a terrorist gang, same as FARC (who also started with political ideas, but evolved to become something very different).
PD: Here you have your cite to prove ETA is a terrorist gang: it's enough to search in google "ETA considerada banda terrorista" [ETA+CONSIDERED+TERRORIST+GANG] to get 460.000 results from a variety of Spanish and foreign newspapers, including also the public Spanish TV (RTVE), the CNN and a lot of media ( [1]). And these are only the results to a search made in Spanish language. In English language I may cite your own wiki because you do recognize they are terrrorists in the contents of the article, although not in the title: "ETA was classified as a terrorist group by Spain, France,[15] the United Kingdom,[16] the United States,[17] Canada[18] and the European Union.[19] This convention was followed by a plurality of domestic and international media, which also referred to the group as "terrorists".( [2]) As you very well know, wikipedia is often cite and it's used as the main source of information by many people (most of people, in fact) all around the world. Other sources which may be called "more reliable" by some just copy your words. You have a great responsability and you SHOULD call "terrorism" what is so; otherwise you are helping to spread a lie and to justify the existence and actions of an organized gang of criminals. Other cites in English: "Basque terrorist group Eta to be dissolved in weeks says mediator."; appeared in october 2019 in The Guardian ( [3]). "Spain's ETA Terrorist Group is Dying" appeared in 2012 in ScienceDirect ( [4]). I could go on, but I think it is enough to anyone who doesn't have a bias point of view about this subject. M 08:20, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
This is not restricted by MOS:TERRORIST, simply a guide for words to watch, because this group has reliably been labelled a terrorist group, specifically the United Nations as well as several others. [5] [6] [7] "December 2001: The European Union declares Eta a terrorist organisation - the first time all 15 member governments have labelled Eta as such, in a significant diplomatic victory for the Spanish Government." [8] I will make the change in the article accordingly. MartinezMD ( talk) 15:54, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
References
This reference does not confirm French designation. The page is quite long, so search for "Euskadi Ta Askatasuna" to be taken to the relevant point. If you scroll up past the "PERSONNES" section above that you will see the European Council press release. Although it's from 2004 you can see the similarity when comparing the "PERSONNES" and "GROUPES ET ENTITES" sections with the EU list from 2009. Obviously some people and groups don't appear on both lists, but it is clear they are the same list, just from different years. So as the French website is only giving the EU list, it does not confirm ETA are designated in France. It is quite possible they are, which is why I will only be tagging the information at present rather than simply removing it. FDW777 ( talk) 20:26, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
No suggested changes to the article, no point letting the whining carry on. FDW777 ( talk) 09:20, 15 July 2020 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This is a section with no future, will surely be removed very soon. I opened it in order to publish contributions of French and Spanish people who feel ashamed of this article. Like me. ETA´s definition in English Wikipedia (In French the article has been redacted by an user called Artapalo... the main chief of ETA!) is offensive. An armed group that commits murder (including 22 children) against democratic countries is a terrorist group. Shame on you, Wikipedia. 1PLL ( talk) 11:22, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
Could I look fairly at things like this: "An armed group that commits murder (including 22 children) against democratic countries"? Of course: a fair thing called terrorist group. UK, France, Italy, Germany, Portugal, Netherlands, Sweden, Canada, USA and the UE looked at things fairly. 188.87.201.244 ( talk) 09:04, 15 July 2020 (UTC) |
MOS:TERRORIST does not say
"that the term can be used if there are strong sources for it", this is a truncated version that misses the entire point of it. What it says is unless widely used by reliable sources to describe the subject, in which case use
in-text attribution
(my emphasis). Since there is no in-text attribution in the short description (and neither should there be, since it's suposed to be short, it is a violation of the guideline and
WP:NPOV to have Armed Basque terrorist group
as the short description.
FDW777 (
talk) 10:33, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
Unanimously adopting resolution 1530 (2004), the Security Council expressed its reinforced determination to combat all forms of terrorism, and condemned today’s attacks in Madrid “perpetrated by the terrorist group ETA”. At least 190 commuters were killed and more than a thousand more wounded after simultaneous bombings targeted rush-hour trains in the Spanish capital.. The 2004 Madrid train bombings weren't perpetrated by ETA. See also this article regarding that statement. FDW777 ( talk) 11:09, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
ETA is mentioned quite a bit in Craig Johnson’s Death Without Company. Specifically chapter 11 and in another chapter before. The book is about Basque immigrants and is a detective series set in Wyoming. 2600:1700:1D52:4020:15A8:A3CE:B61F:DA68 ( talk) 02:39, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
ETA was a terrorist gang, not separatist group, no cherleader group, no cualquieridiotez group. Terrorists. Kises :-) 90.167.95.103 ( talk) 08:06, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
ETA (separatist group) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 |
The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
This page is not a forum for general discussion about ETA (separatist group). Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about ETA (separatist group) at the Reference desk. |
The terms " extremist", " terrorist" and " freedom fighter" should be avoided or used with care. Editors discussing the use of these terms are advised to familiarize themselves with the guideline, and discuss objections at the relevant talkpage, not here. If you feel this article represents an exception, then that discussion properly belongs here. |
Discussions on this page often lead to previous arguments being restated. Please read recent comments and look in the archives before commenting. |
Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute. |
A news item involving ETA (separatist group) was featured on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
In the news section on the following dates:
|
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
According to the article:
Afaik, it was exactly the opposite - "modern" ETA is ETA-V; it was ETA-VI (the winners of the VI Conference) that dissapeared, merging with the Trotskyist movemement-- 194.38.144.2 ( talk) 14:26, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
This
edit request to
ETA (separatist and terrorist group) has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
ETA was a terrorist organization, not just a separatist group. 136.173.162.129 ( talk) 15:28, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
ETA was classified as a terrorist group by Spain, France, the United Kingdom, the United States, Canada and the European Union. This convention was followed by a plurality of domestic and international media, which also referred to the group as "terrorists".-- MarioGom ( talk) 22:35, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
Any objections to this edit? https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=ETA_(separatist_group)&diff=852795421&oldid=852551709 80.111.16.75 ( talk) 13:07, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
ETA is known to have had 'fraternal' contacts with the Provisional Irish Republican Army; the two groups have both, at times, characterized their struggles as parallel. Links between the two groups go back to at least March 1974. [1] [2] ETA purchased Strela 2 surface-to-air missiles from the IRA and in 2001 unsuccessfully attempted to shoot down a jet carrying the Spanish Prime Minister, Jose Maria Aznar. [3] It has also had links with other militant left-wing movements in Europe and in other places throughout the world.
References
I do not know why my edit referring to ETA as a terrorist group is being removed by a biased user. ETA has been classified as a terrorist group by Spain, France, the United Kingdom, the United States, Canada, the European Union and many other states. Hiding this fact is biased and poorly informed. It should appear in the title loud and clear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheRectificator ( talk • contribs) 14:24, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
Omiting terrorist here would be an attempt to launder the organization and would constitute censorship. Truthslover ( talk) 01:35, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
Ignoring facts to whitewash a terrorist group is awful. These assassins and kidnappers committed murders, bombings, extortions, and threatened thousands of individuals for political gains. They were (are, as the disbandment was never confirmed by truly independent consultants) a terrorist organization. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.33.94.235 ( talk) 15:01, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
The emotion of your response is a good example of why terms like 'terrorist' are best avoided in an encyclopaedia. No one is denying the beastly nature of ETAs activities, however, Wikipedia is designed to describe, not to judge and describe it does. Virtually every such article whether it's on Al-Qaeda, the IRA or indeed ETA will list the various notable institutions that have proscribed them as terrorists. This is to my mind a much better system than having an emotional response. The near unanimous use of the term 'banda terrorista ETA' in Spanish media is much like the term 'IRA-Sinn Féin' used by Northern Irish Loyalists. Irrespective of how accurate such assignations may be, they come from a partisan position and are best avoided as a term of description by a neutral narrator. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.218.224.166 ( talk) 10:14, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
References
Brat Forelli🦊 18:20, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
Euskadi Ta Askatasuna is the official name, ETA is well known shortform. Correctly the tite has to be Euskadi Ta Askatasuna. Pleas change this. -- Outdoor-Bro ( talk) 22:35, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
No consensus, with consensus leaning against the proposed move. BD2412 T 02:37, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
ETA (separatist group) → Euskadi Ta Askatasuna – Rationale:
Using an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English reliable sources, albeit not as commonly as the preferred-but-ambiguous title, WP:ACRONYMTITLE:
Acronyms should be used in a page name if the subject is known primarily by its abbreviation [...]. One general exception to this rule deals with our strong preference for natural disambiguation.)
Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA)( [2]) but also
Euskadi Ta Askatasuna (ETA)( [3]), the Britannica starts is article as
ETA, abbreviation of Basque Euskadi Ta Askatasuna (“Basque Homeland and Liberty”)( [4]) and the BBC has used different forms, for example
ETA (Euskadi Ta Askatasuna, or Basque Homeland and Freedom( [5]). So English translations are usually Basque Homeland and Freedom, Basque Homeland and Liberty, Basque Fatherland and Liberty... none of them is really common. When the full name is used, it is usually the original Basque form (Euskadi Ta Askatasuna). -- MarioGom ( talk) 16:40, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
How is this pronounced in English? I've always heard it as English: /ˈeta/ like Spanish: [ˈeta], but I could see that others might pronounce it more like /ˈi:ta/. We have Basque and Spanish prononunciations but not English, which is a bit odd. Wktionary doesn't give pronunciations for any language. 85.238.91.68 ( talk) 07:10, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
I can't see why is ETA called a "separatist" group as it is clearly a terrorist gang: they killed innocents, threatened people, kidnaped to get money, were involved with drugs and arms trafficking... They used terror in every possible way to continue to exist, so they must be called terrorists. If you want facts to support this, you can just review newspapers and TV news since 1960. We, the Spanish people who have grown up in the period in which ETA was active, have not a a single doubt regarding their condition of terrorists, murders and criminals.
A separatist group it's a group of people who have separatist ideas and may even fight for them. That's not the case with ETA; at least not since Spanish democracy was stablished (late 1970's) and allowed separatist political parties (PNV and many others) to defend their ideas without murdering people. ETA is just a terrorist gang, same as FARC (who also started with political ideas, but evolved to become something very different).
PD: Here you have your cite to prove ETA is a terrorist gang: it's enough to search in google "ETA considerada banda terrorista" [ETA+CONSIDERED+TERRORIST+GANG] to get 460.000 results from a variety of Spanish and foreign newspapers, including also the public Spanish TV (RTVE), the CNN and a lot of media ( [1]). And these are only the results to a search made in Spanish language. In English language I may cite your own wiki because you do recognize they are terrrorists in the contents of the article, although not in the title: "ETA was classified as a terrorist group by Spain, France,[15] the United Kingdom,[16] the United States,[17] Canada[18] and the European Union.[19] This convention was followed by a plurality of domestic and international media, which also referred to the group as "terrorists".( [2]) As you very well know, wikipedia is often cite and it's used as the main source of information by many people (most of people, in fact) all around the world. Other sources which may be called "more reliable" by some just copy your words. You have a great responsability and you SHOULD call "terrorism" what is so; otherwise you are helping to spread a lie and to justify the existence and actions of an organized gang of criminals. Other cites in English: "Basque terrorist group Eta to be dissolved in weeks says mediator."; appeared in october 2019 in The Guardian ( [3]). "Spain's ETA Terrorist Group is Dying" appeared in 2012 in ScienceDirect ( [4]). I could go on, but I think it is enough to anyone who doesn't have a bias point of view about this subject. M 08:20, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
This is not restricted by MOS:TERRORIST, simply a guide for words to watch, because this group has reliably been labelled a terrorist group, specifically the United Nations as well as several others. [5] [6] [7] "December 2001: The European Union declares Eta a terrorist organisation - the first time all 15 member governments have labelled Eta as such, in a significant diplomatic victory for the Spanish Government." [8] I will make the change in the article accordingly. MartinezMD ( talk) 15:54, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
References
This reference does not confirm French designation. The page is quite long, so search for "Euskadi Ta Askatasuna" to be taken to the relevant point. If you scroll up past the "PERSONNES" section above that you will see the European Council press release. Although it's from 2004 you can see the similarity when comparing the "PERSONNES" and "GROUPES ET ENTITES" sections with the EU list from 2009. Obviously some people and groups don't appear on both lists, but it is clear they are the same list, just from different years. So as the French website is only giving the EU list, it does not confirm ETA are designated in France. It is quite possible they are, which is why I will only be tagging the information at present rather than simply removing it. FDW777 ( talk) 20:26, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
No suggested changes to the article, no point letting the whining carry on. FDW777 ( talk) 09:20, 15 July 2020 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This is a section with no future, will surely be removed very soon. I opened it in order to publish contributions of French and Spanish people who feel ashamed of this article. Like me. ETA´s definition in English Wikipedia (In French the article has been redacted by an user called Artapalo... the main chief of ETA!) is offensive. An armed group that commits murder (including 22 children) against democratic countries is a terrorist group. Shame on you, Wikipedia. 1PLL ( talk) 11:22, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
Could I look fairly at things like this: "An armed group that commits murder (including 22 children) against democratic countries"? Of course: a fair thing called terrorist group. UK, France, Italy, Germany, Portugal, Netherlands, Sweden, Canada, USA and the UE looked at things fairly. 188.87.201.244 ( talk) 09:04, 15 July 2020 (UTC) |
MOS:TERRORIST does not say
"that the term can be used if there are strong sources for it", this is a truncated version that misses the entire point of it. What it says is unless widely used by reliable sources to describe the subject, in which case use
in-text attribution
(my emphasis). Since there is no in-text attribution in the short description (and neither should there be, since it's suposed to be short, it is a violation of the guideline and
WP:NPOV to have Armed Basque terrorist group
as the short description.
FDW777 (
talk) 10:33, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
Unanimously adopting resolution 1530 (2004), the Security Council expressed its reinforced determination to combat all forms of terrorism, and condemned today’s attacks in Madrid “perpetrated by the terrorist group ETA”. At least 190 commuters were killed and more than a thousand more wounded after simultaneous bombings targeted rush-hour trains in the Spanish capital.. The 2004 Madrid train bombings weren't perpetrated by ETA. See also this article regarding that statement. FDW777 ( talk) 11:09, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
ETA is mentioned quite a bit in Craig Johnson’s Death Without Company. Specifically chapter 11 and in another chapter before. The book is about Basque immigrants and is a detective series set in Wyoming. 2600:1700:1D52:4020:15A8:A3CE:B61F:DA68 ( talk) 02:39, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
ETA was a terrorist gang, not separatist group, no cherleader group, no cualquieridiotez group. Terrorists. Kises :-) 90.167.95.103 ( talk) 08:06, 30 August 2023 (UTC)