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McElroy, "Debates of Liberty" says Lum was an anarcho-communist. The source being used in this article to say he was an individualist did not say that. It just said he was a contributor to "Liberty." That makes sense now, because the things in this article and his quotes didn't seem individualist to me. Operation Spooner 18:24, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
I've reread Lum's essay in Parsons. Lum doesn't call himself either individualist or communist in the work, but his proposals are characteristically individualist and/or mutualist: pt 1:
It says to the financier: -Your function in society should not lie determined by monopoly, but under equal opportunities. Your privileges are our restriction; your charters our disenfranchisement. We demand freedom to co-operate in financial as in other matters; to co-operate for mutual banking is well as for mutual insurance; and when you are shorn of privileges we may co-operate to base credit upon all wealth as well as on that you would dictate. For equal opportunities would destroy your prerogative to fashion and control a medium of exchange. Justice would reign and interest cease, because it could not [?]. It says to the landlord; Equal opportunities give you no monopoly of the soil. Again, monopoly has conferred a chartered right and men are disinherited. Destroy this chartered privilege and strong wins [?] will labor with joy and find in mutual credit new avenues to invade the province of nature. Co-operation would enlarge production. extend consumption and equalize distribution. Overproduction and underconsumption would become myths, and demand would seek supply with unfailing regularity without other guarantee than absence of restriction.
To them all it says: gentlemen, we ask no privilege, -we propose no restriction; nor, on the other hand will we permit it. We have no new shackles to propose, -we seek emancipation from shackles. We ask no legislative sanction for co-operation asks only for "A free field and no favors; neither will we permit their interference."
It asserts that in freedom of the social unit [individual?] lies the freedom of the social state [collective?]. It asserts that in freedom to the capitalization of all acquired wealth lies social advancement and the death of interest.
pt 2:
To follow a given course, to advocate certain measures, there must be sufficient inducement therein to satisfy my mind that such is for my interest to do so.
Okay, that sums up my reasons for disputing McElroy's classification. Hang on, I'll look further, and read more of Lum and commentaries on Lum. Jacob Haller 19:56, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Lum discusses his view of rights in Liberty, vol. 6 no. 25, or #155. Jacob Haller 20:45, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
He discusses some of the same issues in the Alarm, Nature of Rights, April 3rd, 1886:
The struggle of the age is for freedom to the individual, freedom of contract, freedom to compete, unfettered by the incubus of legalized privilege. It is not so much an assertion of "rights," as a demand for equality of opportunities. Our battle is to strike down legalized privilege, whether of the few or the many, of the monopolist or the mob. That battle won, natural rights will take care of themselves. And only when the natural rights of the individual are thus left free to assert themselves, will there complete accord with alleged "rights of society."
Again, this looks like classic individualist anarchism. Jacob Haller 20:59, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Presley, in Exquisite Rebel: Voltairine de Cleyre contrasts Lum's "mutualism" with Tucker's "individualism," and later describes Lum as an "anarchist without adjectives." Jacob Haller 21:03, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
The journal Freedom, vol. 2, no. 17, February 1888, states that:
Accordingly we find Individualist Anarchism represented in Australia by the Melbourne "Honesty", and in America by four or five papers: "Liberty" in Boston, "Lucifer" and the "Sun" in Kansas and, since its revival by Dyer Lum, the "Alarm" in Chicago.
Crass, in Voltairine de Cleyre: A Biographical Sketch describes both (Lum and de Cleyre) as "anarchists without adjectives." Jacob Haller 21:18, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Nearly the whole second volume of The Alarm, edited by Lum, is available online. Enjoy. Libertatia ( talk) 06:20, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
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![]() | Dyer Lum was one of the History good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Current status: Delisted good article |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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McElroy, "Debates of Liberty" says Lum was an anarcho-communist. The source being used in this article to say he was an individualist did not say that. It just said he was a contributor to "Liberty." That makes sense now, because the things in this article and his quotes didn't seem individualist to me. Operation Spooner 18:24, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
I've reread Lum's essay in Parsons. Lum doesn't call himself either individualist or communist in the work, but his proposals are characteristically individualist and/or mutualist: pt 1:
It says to the financier: -Your function in society should not lie determined by monopoly, but under equal opportunities. Your privileges are our restriction; your charters our disenfranchisement. We demand freedom to co-operate in financial as in other matters; to co-operate for mutual banking is well as for mutual insurance; and when you are shorn of privileges we may co-operate to base credit upon all wealth as well as on that you would dictate. For equal opportunities would destroy your prerogative to fashion and control a medium of exchange. Justice would reign and interest cease, because it could not [?]. It says to the landlord; Equal opportunities give you no monopoly of the soil. Again, monopoly has conferred a chartered right and men are disinherited. Destroy this chartered privilege and strong wins [?] will labor with joy and find in mutual credit new avenues to invade the province of nature. Co-operation would enlarge production. extend consumption and equalize distribution. Overproduction and underconsumption would become myths, and demand would seek supply with unfailing regularity without other guarantee than absence of restriction.
To them all it says: gentlemen, we ask no privilege, -we propose no restriction; nor, on the other hand will we permit it. We have no new shackles to propose, -we seek emancipation from shackles. We ask no legislative sanction for co-operation asks only for "A free field and no favors; neither will we permit their interference."
It asserts that in freedom of the social unit [individual?] lies the freedom of the social state [collective?]. It asserts that in freedom to the capitalization of all acquired wealth lies social advancement and the death of interest.
pt 2:
To follow a given course, to advocate certain measures, there must be sufficient inducement therein to satisfy my mind that such is for my interest to do so.
Okay, that sums up my reasons for disputing McElroy's classification. Hang on, I'll look further, and read more of Lum and commentaries on Lum. Jacob Haller 19:56, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Lum discusses his view of rights in Liberty, vol. 6 no. 25, or #155. Jacob Haller 20:45, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
He discusses some of the same issues in the Alarm, Nature of Rights, April 3rd, 1886:
The struggle of the age is for freedom to the individual, freedom of contract, freedom to compete, unfettered by the incubus of legalized privilege. It is not so much an assertion of "rights," as a demand for equality of opportunities. Our battle is to strike down legalized privilege, whether of the few or the many, of the monopolist or the mob. That battle won, natural rights will take care of themselves. And only when the natural rights of the individual are thus left free to assert themselves, will there complete accord with alleged "rights of society."
Again, this looks like classic individualist anarchism. Jacob Haller 20:59, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Presley, in Exquisite Rebel: Voltairine de Cleyre contrasts Lum's "mutualism" with Tucker's "individualism," and later describes Lum as an "anarchist without adjectives." Jacob Haller 21:03, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
The journal Freedom, vol. 2, no. 17, February 1888, states that:
Accordingly we find Individualist Anarchism represented in Australia by the Melbourne "Honesty", and in America by four or five papers: "Liberty" in Boston, "Lucifer" and the "Sun" in Kansas and, since its revival by Dyer Lum, the "Alarm" in Chicago.
Crass, in Voltairine de Cleyre: A Biographical Sketch describes both (Lum and de Cleyre) as "anarchists without adjectives." Jacob Haller 21:18, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Nearly the whole second volume of The Alarm, edited by Lum, is available online. Enjoy. Libertatia ( talk) 06:20, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Dyer Lum. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
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This message was posted before February 2018.
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RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:29, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Dyer Lum. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 08:34, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria