This article is within the scope of WikiProject Anthroponymy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
the study of people's names on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AnthroponymyWikipedia:WikiProject AnthroponymyTemplate:WikiProject AnthroponymyAnthroponymy articles
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[[List of Toy Story characters#Ducky|Ducky]] The anchor (#Ducky) has been
deleted by other users before.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors
DAB categorization issues
Clarityfiend, thanks for your efforts to improve this page. Couple of notes:
A
nickname is a type of given name. Categorizing this page with given names is appropriate.
The documentation for {{Disambiguation}} plainly allows for surname categorization when there is only one element in the list, so this category is also appropriate.
The
Oxford English Dictionary defines a given name as "the name given at baptism, the Christian name".
[1]Merriam-Webster Online gives the highly illuminating example "everyone calls me Jack, but my given name is John." (their italics)
[2]
As for the surname, the wording "Disambiguation pages with surname-holder lists" should tell you something. This means that surnames should be split off to separate list articles. Since this is ridiculous for a single entry, there is no purpose in having this category here.
Clarityfiend (
talk) 23:19, 6 January 2015 (UTC)reply
MOS:DABNAME states that "new sections of Persons with the surname Xxxx ... can be added below the main disambiguation list". (bolding mine) Personally, I find it silly to have two sections of one entry, one after the other (and such sparse sections anywhere).
Clarityfiend (
talk) 23:25, 6 January 2015 (UTC)reply
It does look a bit cluttered. How about we move the "other uses" entry to the top section, like we'd see on most dab pages? That will allow us to make the page flow better while still conforming to DABNAME.
For surname categorization, yes, it's possible and common to create a separate surname article. But this dab page still contains such a list, even if it's a list of one item, so it gets the category. I haven't been able to find any guideline, template documentation or category inclusion criteria statement that suggests otherwise.
I, too, struggled with the given name question, months ago when I added the category. The OED is unhelpfully narrow (I know a lot of non-Christians with given names). The definition from Merriam-Webster, which you omitted above, is "a name that precedes one's surname; especiallyfirst name". And that certainly is worded to cover nicknames. Yes, most of the time the term refers to personal name(s) given early in life, but I don't see a clear division between these and other given names. Parents may give a child a nickname at the same time as or even before their official personal name. How do we tell them apart? A baptismal name is not necessarily the name a person receives at birth, so in that sense might be considered a nickname, but we generally understand it as a given name. What if a person takes a different name later in life? Most people consider Jamie Foxx's given name to be "Jamie", not "Eric", and Gerald Ford's to be "Gerald" instead of "Leslie". A given name is just what it says it is: any name that is given to the individual, rather than gained inherently via membership in a family or other group. The whole issue gets very muddy, so it works better to approach nicknames as a special subset of given names, and I think this is why our fellow Wikipedians have made decisions like placing
Category:Nicknames as a child of
Category:Given names, and including in
Category:Disambiguation pages with given-name-holder lists members like
Fred,
Maxi and
Chi-Chi. If you think this is a bad way to go, perhaps we could consider adding an additional "nickname" category for disambiguation pages. It's a bit more work, but categorization should avoid controversy wherever possible. I'm also up for doing an RfC on the question so we can get consensus.
Ibadibam (
talk) 00:44, 7 January 2015 (UTC)reply
Cool (or should I say that's just ducky?). An RFC sounds fine. I'd like to know what others think about given names, nicknames and a whole lot of other variations. For instance, is Frank
L. Frank Baum's given name? What about informal versions, like
Teddy Roosevelt or
Chuck Yeager? What about
pen names and
pseudonyms?
Clarityfiend (
talk) 06:08, 7 January 2015 (UTC)reply
Rubber ducky
Despite
rubber ducky being a
partial title match, I believe it is still one of the most likely targets for readers who have ended up at this page. The item can be referred to as ducky or duckie, as in "
Put Down the Duckie". So I'd like to suggest a local consensus to include it at the top of this page as a special case of the first point of
MOS:DABORDER.
Ibadibam (
talk) 23:03, 6 January 2015 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Anthroponymy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
the study of people's names on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AnthroponymyWikipedia:WikiProject AnthroponymyTemplate:WikiProject AnthroponymyAnthroponymy articles
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
[[List of Toy Story characters#Ducky|Ducky]] The anchor (#Ducky) has been
deleted by other users before.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors
DAB categorization issues
Clarityfiend, thanks for your efforts to improve this page. Couple of notes:
A
nickname is a type of given name. Categorizing this page with given names is appropriate.
The documentation for {{Disambiguation}} plainly allows for surname categorization when there is only one element in the list, so this category is also appropriate.
The
Oxford English Dictionary defines a given name as "the name given at baptism, the Christian name".
[1]Merriam-Webster Online gives the highly illuminating example "everyone calls me Jack, but my given name is John." (their italics)
[2]
As for the surname, the wording "Disambiguation pages with surname-holder lists" should tell you something. This means that surnames should be split off to separate list articles. Since this is ridiculous for a single entry, there is no purpose in having this category here.
Clarityfiend (
talk) 23:19, 6 January 2015 (UTC)reply
MOS:DABNAME states that "new sections of Persons with the surname Xxxx ... can be added below the main disambiguation list". (bolding mine) Personally, I find it silly to have two sections of one entry, one after the other (and such sparse sections anywhere).
Clarityfiend (
talk) 23:25, 6 January 2015 (UTC)reply
It does look a bit cluttered. How about we move the "other uses" entry to the top section, like we'd see on most dab pages? That will allow us to make the page flow better while still conforming to DABNAME.
For surname categorization, yes, it's possible and common to create a separate surname article. But this dab page still contains such a list, even if it's a list of one item, so it gets the category. I haven't been able to find any guideline, template documentation or category inclusion criteria statement that suggests otherwise.
I, too, struggled with the given name question, months ago when I added the category. The OED is unhelpfully narrow (I know a lot of non-Christians with given names). The definition from Merriam-Webster, which you omitted above, is "a name that precedes one's surname; especiallyfirst name". And that certainly is worded to cover nicknames. Yes, most of the time the term refers to personal name(s) given early in life, but I don't see a clear division between these and other given names. Parents may give a child a nickname at the same time as or even before their official personal name. How do we tell them apart? A baptismal name is not necessarily the name a person receives at birth, so in that sense might be considered a nickname, but we generally understand it as a given name. What if a person takes a different name later in life? Most people consider Jamie Foxx's given name to be "Jamie", not "Eric", and Gerald Ford's to be "Gerald" instead of "Leslie". A given name is just what it says it is: any name that is given to the individual, rather than gained inherently via membership in a family or other group. The whole issue gets very muddy, so it works better to approach nicknames as a special subset of given names, and I think this is why our fellow Wikipedians have made decisions like placing
Category:Nicknames as a child of
Category:Given names, and including in
Category:Disambiguation pages with given-name-holder lists members like
Fred,
Maxi and
Chi-Chi. If you think this is a bad way to go, perhaps we could consider adding an additional "nickname" category for disambiguation pages. It's a bit more work, but categorization should avoid controversy wherever possible. I'm also up for doing an RfC on the question so we can get consensus.
Ibadibam (
talk) 00:44, 7 January 2015 (UTC)reply
Cool (or should I say that's just ducky?). An RFC sounds fine. I'd like to know what others think about given names, nicknames and a whole lot of other variations. For instance, is Frank
L. Frank Baum's given name? What about informal versions, like
Teddy Roosevelt or
Chuck Yeager? What about
pen names and
pseudonyms?
Clarityfiend (
talk) 06:08, 7 January 2015 (UTC)reply
Rubber ducky
Despite
rubber ducky being a
partial title match, I believe it is still one of the most likely targets for readers who have ended up at this page. The item can be referred to as ducky or duckie, as in "
Put Down the Duckie". So I'd like to suggest a local consensus to include it at the top of this page as a special case of the first point of
MOS:DABORDER.
Ibadibam (
talk) 23:03, 6 January 2015 (UTC)reply