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Just wanted to say that, if anyone ever plans on taking this thing to FAC, there's a big job ahead of them. Back in 2014, I scanned around 200 pages of Dreamcast magazine coverage for Red Phoenix, and it's all still available here. Most of it has not been cited in the article, and I don't think any Dreamcast FA could be considered comprehensive without a careful trawling of this material. Even if most of it is redundant (a distinct possibility), it still has to be double-checked before FAC, in case there are holes in the present article. Plus, I see a lot of weak sources in the article currently (GameSpot and IGN coverage from the 90s, for example) that could be replaced by stronger magazine citations. There's a disproportionate number of online sources in general, given the era in which the Dreamcast was released. All of this is fine for a GA, but, for the future, I wanted to let people know (since Red Phoenix has retired) that this scan cache exists. JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 21:11, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
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Total Sales is suspect. All references to 10.6 million sold should be changed to 9.13 million sold
The multiple references to 10.6 million console sales are unsubstantiated and are not sourced from a verifiable resource. Actual verifiable resources from Sega shows that only 9.13 million units were produced and shipped. in their 2001 Anual Report it's stated "for respective totals of 8.20 million units" [1] with the remaining 930,000 units accounted for in their Revision later that year "with domestic sales of 130,000 units and U.S. sales of 530,000 units for the first half.- Consequently, at the end of the half, Dreamcast inventories totaled 40,000 units domestically and 230,000 units for the United States, and we anticipate being able to sell all remaining units by the holiday season as initially planned." [2] Jcgarmatz ( talk) 01:52, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
References
Jcgarmatz (
talk) 01:52, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
Not done Many reliable sources verify the 10.6 figure.
Sergecross73
msg me
02:25, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
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58.70.199.213 ( talk) 09:59, 30 October 2015 (UTC) Japanese wikipedia has accurate source that only 9.13 million Dreamcasts were ever produced. This makes the English sites 10.6million totally inaccurate.
However, if the editors are refusing to check actual facts what is the point of Wikipedia? How isa blog an accurate source over the manufacturer as a source? Seems both childish and pathetic. Add to the fact we have it clearly stated on the Japanese Wiki the Japanese company made 9.13 million units this whole 10.6 million figure is now nothing more that a bad joke.
The editors are abusing power here instead of looking at facts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.70.199.213 ( talk) 11:55, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
Hi guys. Sorry to post here, as it's a little off-topic, but no one has responded to my post on the Shenmue talk page. I've been doing a lot of work on the various Shenmue articles, but try as I might I can't find a reliable source anywhere stating the Japanese and European release dates for Shenmue 1. Does anyone know where I could find these? Popcornduff ( talk) 04:48, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
https://www.segasammy.co.jp/japanese/ir/library/pdf/printing_archive/2001/sega/sega_annual_tuuki_2001.pdf Here is the link to the official sales report form SEGA 2001, can someone correct the sales in the article?.
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There are active homebrew communities even today, and they are continuing to write software for the console. Some people feel as though the console never died. Would it be appropriate to add this to the article? Ryanalexmartin ( talk) 00:41, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
Reliable sources such as the actual game studio called Josh Prod? They buy old IPs and mostly release them on the Dreamcast and is a registrered Developer. PettrK ( talk) 07:58, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
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Why is there no mention of the 3 different colours used for the logo on different regions machines? Aluminium Colours ( talk) 23:09, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
Sega worked with Microsoft (Xbox) to create the Dreamcast. - TB57
Theres seems to be some issue at saying Sega had a built-in modem at the launch of its console. Considering most of the references on the page says this I don't understand the rsistance here. CD-i had models with built in modems so that two word addition to that paragraph, two words I stress, shouldn't be an issue. Especially since "at release" or "launched with" is used in many references in the Dreamcast article itself. At launch is to specify, and remove minor confusion. Spike Danton ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:00, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
The below little article in Next Generation seems to only have info that's already well-sourced in the WP article, but I'm not well-versed in Dreamcast history, so I'm a bit worried I may have overlooked something. If anyone wants to give it a look...-- Martin IIIa ( talk) 02:11, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
@Sergecross73
ok, but the legacy of Dreamcast is special, communities mention is relevant.
and what you mean with "Major regions only"? Australia is not a "major region", Russian Federation is much bigger and has one of the biggest video gaming markets in the world which is fast growing. sometimes it seems like Wikipedia is stucked in the past. but ok your choice. i believe this choice is not right -- 85.212.86.28 ( talk) 03:57, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
I appreciate the edits made by PettrK, but I'm afraid I have to revert such edits in good faith. Reasons are as follows:
If you feel that the information should be included in the article, please feel free to discuss. Thanks! – Hounder4 10:41, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for your reply Hounder4! I agree with you, however, I have lots of info to add, but I was on my cellphone and was actually fixing alot of this stuff, before I got a low battery warning, then 10seconds, (like wth, 10 seconds warning??) it just died. All gone. Anyway, one thing that annoys me about one particular Sega product on Wikipedia is the Sega Mega Drive, or, Genesis if you live in __ONE__ region where that name is correct. How come the rest of the world is ignored just because the site is in English? People in India has English as their language (although 2nd language) as well, yet I do believe they did not get the Genesis name on their consoles.
Best regards PettrK ( talk) 11:52, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
PettrK ( talk) 07:38, 2 March 2020 (GMT+2) At E3, Sega themselves made this statement that since the Dreamcast, this is their first home consumer console and hardware production available at retailers. As in, this is the first time Sega has produced 1st party peripherals and console hardware since the Dreamcast. The console includes two games, which does not see an official release back in the day of Genesis and Mega Drive, and thus, this *IS* a console with it's own games. However, I agree somewhat in that it's based on a previous console, but that being said, thats like saying the manufacturers of, say, Google Stadia or Nvidia (Shield), is not in the hardware gaming business, something that is simply not true. Sega has undoubtedly re-entered the console manufacturing business for home consumers with this Mini console because it has games never been released at a "16"-bit console before, Darius and Tetris. How is this false? Before the release of the Mini, Sega's COO said the following, which is reported by Polygon: Just last week, Sega’s COO said the company was interested in getting back into the hardware business, following the explosive success of Nintendo’s classic reissues. "[...]Sega famously exited the hardware business after the failure of the Sega Dreamcast in 2001." and "Sega's COO says they're looking at getting back into the hardware game with a proper reissue of the Genesis/Mega Drive, no doubt inspired by Nintendo's wild success with the NES and SNES classic."
If this is not a reliable source, Polygon, then the guidelines for what is needs to be updated. This is a direct reference to the COO of Sega, about making a return to the hardware business - which did happen, in form of the Mini, as a first party console never before produced, and the first one since Sega. I highly disagree with you on this exact statement. However a next-generation console is never mentioned, but was never written anyway. [1] PettrK ( talk) 06:48, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
@ TheTimesAreAChanging: Regarding this edit, and this summary: "deletion of sourced, notable context due to the mistaken belief that influential games cannot have antecedents"
To clarify, that is not my belief, and I didn't say it was. My point is that it is odd to describe a game as influential, then, instead of explaining why or how it is influential, which would be interesting and relevant, explain only that it was inspired by another game. It's a non-sequitur.
The sources I supplied were (if I'm not mistaken) sources that credited PSO as a landmark game for being the first online console RPG. They were taken from the Phantasy Star Online article. Are we sure that the sources we now have back up the claim that it "is considered a landmark game for refining and simplifing Diablo's style of gameplay to appeal to console audiences"? Two of them 404/redirect for me and the other is a book I don't have access to. I am not sure that the fact that PSO was inspired by Diablo is what makes it important. Popcornfud ( talk) 16:03, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
"that PSO was inspired by Diablo is what makes it important"; however, the current text (trimmed per your request) is fully supported by the cited sources. For example, 1UP.com's "The Decade That Was: Essential Newcomers" (which is still accessible on archive.is) states:
While [PSO's] design wasn't particularly massive, it was multiplayer and online, and it paved the way for larger-scale efforts such as Final Fantasy XI. More significantly, it established a template that would be copied and perfected by Capcom's Monster Hunter series. ... PSO's design wasn't entirely original. Its loot-driven cooperative action owed a tremendous debt to Blizzard's Diablo series. What Sega's Sonic Team accomplished with PSO, though, was a reinvention of an established PC adventure concept into something perfectly suited for the tastes and demands of console gamers. More importantly, it made both online gaming and the concept of fee-based services a reality for consoles.
"When Phantasy Star Online was released in 2000, it wasn't the first online console game. ... But Phantasy Star Online was the first that felt like it really worked—and the first online game to adopt a console design sensibility, transforming it through the prism of online connectivity to create something truly original, something that probably couldn't have existed on a PC alone. Taking inspiration from massively multiplayer online role-playing games (MMORPGs) that were in abundance on PCs at the time, Phantasy Star Online took the connectivity and community of the genre but brought a more tightly contained, console-style adventuring."TheTimesAreAChanging ( talk) 17:35, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
considered a landmark game for refining and simplifying Diablo's style of gameplay to appeal to console audiences, quite reflects the sources we're citing.
More importantly, it made both online gaming and the concept of fee-based services a reality for consoles. In other words, it is literally saying that the Diablo thing is not the most important thing about the game. Specifically, we are missing what seems to be the obviously important thing, which is that it was the first online console RPG.
Sonic Team's Phantasy Star Online, influenced by the PC game Diablo, was the first online console RPG.Popcornfud ( talk) 14:43, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
@ TheTimesAreAChanging and Indrian: I wanted to get your attention because of my past history with this article - reviews for it and Sega Saturn were not my finest hours as an editor, but I digress. I've been thinking long and hard about this, and with as well-written and well-referenced as this article is, plus six years of new sources that are bound to have been written (we just passed 20 years since the launch in 2019), I'd love to try and take this up to FA status. If it weren't for the fact that I'm really getting to this too late, I'd say March 2021 would have been a good time to get it on the main page for 20 years since its cancellation and the death of Sega as a hardware maker. But, I don't know even if I had all the time in the world that I could get it through FAC by then. Regardless, at least with an FA star, at the right time it could be the featured article of the day when it's appropriate.
The reason I'm pinging both of you is this: as much as I did do a lot to this article, I know most of the prose and referencing now is not my work; it's yours. WP:OWN aside, I don't want to step on anyone's toes if I start messing with things or decide to work on this further without consulting with those really behind this article first. It's also an FAC requirement, though I don't want to send it to FAC as-is. I guess I'd like to know two things:
1. Is everyone okay if I start working on this again and take it to FAC when it's ready? It may be a few months; I'm starting a new job this week.
2. Does anyone want to collaborate? I'm all for it, but I will understand if I'm going it alone.
You guys did a really great job with this article, much better than I was capable of in 2014. I'd love to see it stand among Wikipedia's best. Red Phoenix talk 21:29, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
According to /info/en/?search=NV1 and other sources around the web nvidia also worked with sega on providing the gpu for the dreamcast. maybe this should be incorporated into this article?
Here's an archived article on the NV2 and Sega involvement. https://web.archive.org/web/20060919170554/https://firingsquad.com/features/nv2/default.asp
Djmips ( talk) 20:46, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
Acorrding to there official website Sega claims that it launched November 11, 1998 instraf of November 27.
Press the link below.
So should we change Japan's release date?
Dreamcast | SEGA NakhlaMan ( talk) 13:02, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
The article uses a logo sourced from a dead link to a Fandom logo wiki. The color also differs distinctly from the one on the Sega website. First and foremost, the current logo should have a better source to prevent citogenesis.
In fact, Wikipedia has three versions of the SEGA logo uploaded: a red one labeled NTSC-U, a light orange one labeled NTSC-J, and a blue one labeled PAL. These all appear to be reproductions of the logo from the Dreamcast boot screen, and while there is evidence for the PAL blue logo, neither the red or light orange seem to be accurate. It looks like the logo should be a reddish orange color, as appears on the Sega website linked above and the boot screen of the console. Unless a primary source for these red and light orange logos can be found, I am concerned that citogenesis has already taken place as these seem to be the commonly used Dreamcast logos online. DMonitor ( talk) 06:11, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
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Just wanted to say that, if anyone ever plans on taking this thing to FAC, there's a big job ahead of them. Back in 2014, I scanned around 200 pages of Dreamcast magazine coverage for Red Phoenix, and it's all still available here. Most of it has not been cited in the article, and I don't think any Dreamcast FA could be considered comprehensive without a careful trawling of this material. Even if most of it is redundant (a distinct possibility), it still has to be double-checked before FAC, in case there are holes in the present article. Plus, I see a lot of weak sources in the article currently (GameSpot and IGN coverage from the 90s, for example) that could be replaced by stronger magazine citations. There's a disproportionate number of online sources in general, given the era in which the Dreamcast was released. All of this is fine for a GA, but, for the future, I wanted to let people know (since Red Phoenix has retired) that this scan cache exists. JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 21:11, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
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Total Sales is suspect. All references to 10.6 million sold should be changed to 9.13 million sold
The multiple references to 10.6 million console sales are unsubstantiated and are not sourced from a verifiable resource. Actual verifiable resources from Sega shows that only 9.13 million units were produced and shipped. in their 2001 Anual Report it's stated "for respective totals of 8.20 million units" [1] with the remaining 930,000 units accounted for in their Revision later that year "with domestic sales of 130,000 units and U.S. sales of 530,000 units for the first half.- Consequently, at the end of the half, Dreamcast inventories totaled 40,000 units domestically and 230,000 units for the United States, and we anticipate being able to sell all remaining units by the holiday season as initially planned." [2] Jcgarmatz ( talk) 01:52, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
References
Jcgarmatz (
talk) 01:52, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
Not done Many reliable sources verify the 10.6 figure.
Sergecross73
msg me
02:25, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
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58.70.199.213 ( talk) 09:59, 30 October 2015 (UTC) Japanese wikipedia has accurate source that only 9.13 million Dreamcasts were ever produced. This makes the English sites 10.6million totally inaccurate.
However, if the editors are refusing to check actual facts what is the point of Wikipedia? How isa blog an accurate source over the manufacturer as a source? Seems both childish and pathetic. Add to the fact we have it clearly stated on the Japanese Wiki the Japanese company made 9.13 million units this whole 10.6 million figure is now nothing more that a bad joke.
The editors are abusing power here instead of looking at facts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.70.199.213 ( talk) 11:55, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
Hi guys. Sorry to post here, as it's a little off-topic, but no one has responded to my post on the Shenmue talk page. I've been doing a lot of work on the various Shenmue articles, but try as I might I can't find a reliable source anywhere stating the Japanese and European release dates for Shenmue 1. Does anyone know where I could find these? Popcornduff ( talk) 04:48, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
https://www.segasammy.co.jp/japanese/ir/library/pdf/printing_archive/2001/sega/sega_annual_tuuki_2001.pdf Here is the link to the official sales report form SEGA 2001, can someone correct the sales in the article?.
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There are active homebrew communities even today, and they are continuing to write software for the console. Some people feel as though the console never died. Would it be appropriate to add this to the article? Ryanalexmartin ( talk) 00:41, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
Reliable sources such as the actual game studio called Josh Prod? They buy old IPs and mostly release them on the Dreamcast and is a registrered Developer. PettrK ( talk) 07:58, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
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Why is there no mention of the 3 different colours used for the logo on different regions machines? Aluminium Colours ( talk) 23:09, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
Sega worked with Microsoft (Xbox) to create the Dreamcast. - TB57
Theres seems to be some issue at saying Sega had a built-in modem at the launch of its console. Considering most of the references on the page says this I don't understand the rsistance here. CD-i had models with built in modems so that two word addition to that paragraph, two words I stress, shouldn't be an issue. Especially since "at release" or "launched with" is used in many references in the Dreamcast article itself. At launch is to specify, and remove minor confusion. Spike Danton ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:00, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
The below little article in Next Generation seems to only have info that's already well-sourced in the WP article, but I'm not well-versed in Dreamcast history, so I'm a bit worried I may have overlooked something. If anyone wants to give it a look...-- Martin IIIa ( talk) 02:11, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
@Sergecross73
ok, but the legacy of Dreamcast is special, communities mention is relevant.
and what you mean with "Major regions only"? Australia is not a "major region", Russian Federation is much bigger and has one of the biggest video gaming markets in the world which is fast growing. sometimes it seems like Wikipedia is stucked in the past. but ok your choice. i believe this choice is not right -- 85.212.86.28 ( talk) 03:57, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
I appreciate the edits made by PettrK, but I'm afraid I have to revert such edits in good faith. Reasons are as follows:
If you feel that the information should be included in the article, please feel free to discuss. Thanks! – Hounder4 10:41, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for your reply Hounder4! I agree with you, however, I have lots of info to add, but I was on my cellphone and was actually fixing alot of this stuff, before I got a low battery warning, then 10seconds, (like wth, 10 seconds warning??) it just died. All gone. Anyway, one thing that annoys me about one particular Sega product on Wikipedia is the Sega Mega Drive, or, Genesis if you live in __ONE__ region where that name is correct. How come the rest of the world is ignored just because the site is in English? People in India has English as their language (although 2nd language) as well, yet I do believe they did not get the Genesis name on their consoles.
Best regards PettrK ( talk) 11:52, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
PettrK ( talk) 07:38, 2 March 2020 (GMT+2) At E3, Sega themselves made this statement that since the Dreamcast, this is their first home consumer console and hardware production available at retailers. As in, this is the first time Sega has produced 1st party peripherals and console hardware since the Dreamcast. The console includes two games, which does not see an official release back in the day of Genesis and Mega Drive, and thus, this *IS* a console with it's own games. However, I agree somewhat in that it's based on a previous console, but that being said, thats like saying the manufacturers of, say, Google Stadia or Nvidia (Shield), is not in the hardware gaming business, something that is simply not true. Sega has undoubtedly re-entered the console manufacturing business for home consumers with this Mini console because it has games never been released at a "16"-bit console before, Darius and Tetris. How is this false? Before the release of the Mini, Sega's COO said the following, which is reported by Polygon: Just last week, Sega’s COO said the company was interested in getting back into the hardware business, following the explosive success of Nintendo’s classic reissues. "[...]Sega famously exited the hardware business after the failure of the Sega Dreamcast in 2001." and "Sega's COO says they're looking at getting back into the hardware game with a proper reissue of the Genesis/Mega Drive, no doubt inspired by Nintendo's wild success with the NES and SNES classic."
If this is not a reliable source, Polygon, then the guidelines for what is needs to be updated. This is a direct reference to the COO of Sega, about making a return to the hardware business - which did happen, in form of the Mini, as a first party console never before produced, and the first one since Sega. I highly disagree with you on this exact statement. However a next-generation console is never mentioned, but was never written anyway. [1] PettrK ( talk) 06:48, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
@ TheTimesAreAChanging: Regarding this edit, and this summary: "deletion of sourced, notable context due to the mistaken belief that influential games cannot have antecedents"
To clarify, that is not my belief, and I didn't say it was. My point is that it is odd to describe a game as influential, then, instead of explaining why or how it is influential, which would be interesting and relevant, explain only that it was inspired by another game. It's a non-sequitur.
The sources I supplied were (if I'm not mistaken) sources that credited PSO as a landmark game for being the first online console RPG. They were taken from the Phantasy Star Online article. Are we sure that the sources we now have back up the claim that it "is considered a landmark game for refining and simplifing Diablo's style of gameplay to appeal to console audiences"? Two of them 404/redirect for me and the other is a book I don't have access to. I am not sure that the fact that PSO was inspired by Diablo is what makes it important. Popcornfud ( talk) 16:03, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
"that PSO was inspired by Diablo is what makes it important"; however, the current text (trimmed per your request) is fully supported by the cited sources. For example, 1UP.com's "The Decade That Was: Essential Newcomers" (which is still accessible on archive.is) states:
While [PSO's] design wasn't particularly massive, it was multiplayer and online, and it paved the way for larger-scale efforts such as Final Fantasy XI. More significantly, it established a template that would be copied and perfected by Capcom's Monster Hunter series. ... PSO's design wasn't entirely original. Its loot-driven cooperative action owed a tremendous debt to Blizzard's Diablo series. What Sega's Sonic Team accomplished with PSO, though, was a reinvention of an established PC adventure concept into something perfectly suited for the tastes and demands of console gamers. More importantly, it made both online gaming and the concept of fee-based services a reality for consoles.
"When Phantasy Star Online was released in 2000, it wasn't the first online console game. ... But Phantasy Star Online was the first that felt like it really worked—and the first online game to adopt a console design sensibility, transforming it through the prism of online connectivity to create something truly original, something that probably couldn't have existed on a PC alone. Taking inspiration from massively multiplayer online role-playing games (MMORPGs) that were in abundance on PCs at the time, Phantasy Star Online took the connectivity and community of the genre but brought a more tightly contained, console-style adventuring."TheTimesAreAChanging ( talk) 17:35, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
considered a landmark game for refining and simplifying Diablo's style of gameplay to appeal to console audiences, quite reflects the sources we're citing.
More importantly, it made both online gaming and the concept of fee-based services a reality for consoles. In other words, it is literally saying that the Diablo thing is not the most important thing about the game. Specifically, we are missing what seems to be the obviously important thing, which is that it was the first online console RPG.
Sonic Team's Phantasy Star Online, influenced by the PC game Diablo, was the first online console RPG.Popcornfud ( talk) 14:43, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
@ TheTimesAreAChanging and Indrian: I wanted to get your attention because of my past history with this article - reviews for it and Sega Saturn were not my finest hours as an editor, but I digress. I've been thinking long and hard about this, and with as well-written and well-referenced as this article is, plus six years of new sources that are bound to have been written (we just passed 20 years since the launch in 2019), I'd love to try and take this up to FA status. If it weren't for the fact that I'm really getting to this too late, I'd say March 2021 would have been a good time to get it on the main page for 20 years since its cancellation and the death of Sega as a hardware maker. But, I don't know even if I had all the time in the world that I could get it through FAC by then. Regardless, at least with an FA star, at the right time it could be the featured article of the day when it's appropriate.
The reason I'm pinging both of you is this: as much as I did do a lot to this article, I know most of the prose and referencing now is not my work; it's yours. WP:OWN aside, I don't want to step on anyone's toes if I start messing with things or decide to work on this further without consulting with those really behind this article first. It's also an FAC requirement, though I don't want to send it to FAC as-is. I guess I'd like to know two things:
1. Is everyone okay if I start working on this again and take it to FAC when it's ready? It may be a few months; I'm starting a new job this week.
2. Does anyone want to collaborate? I'm all for it, but I will understand if I'm going it alone.
You guys did a really great job with this article, much better than I was capable of in 2014. I'd love to see it stand among Wikipedia's best. Red Phoenix talk 21:29, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
According to /info/en/?search=NV1 and other sources around the web nvidia also worked with sega on providing the gpu for the dreamcast. maybe this should be incorporated into this article?
Here's an archived article on the NV2 and Sega involvement. https://web.archive.org/web/20060919170554/https://firingsquad.com/features/nv2/default.asp
Djmips ( talk) 20:46, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
Acorrding to there official website Sega claims that it launched November 11, 1998 instraf of November 27.
Press the link below.
So should we change Japan's release date?
Dreamcast | SEGA NakhlaMan ( talk) 13:02, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
The article uses a logo sourced from a dead link to a Fandom logo wiki. The color also differs distinctly from the one on the Sega website. First and foremost, the current logo should have a better source to prevent citogenesis.
In fact, Wikipedia has three versions of the SEGA logo uploaded: a red one labeled NTSC-U, a light orange one labeled NTSC-J, and a blue one labeled PAL. These all appear to be reproductions of the logo from the Dreamcast boot screen, and while there is evidence for the PAL blue logo, neither the red or light orange seem to be accurate. It looks like the logo should be a reddish orange color, as appears on the Sega website linked above and the boot screen of the console. Unless a primary source for these red and light orange logos can be found, I am concerned that citogenesis has already taken place as these seem to be the commonly used Dreamcast logos online. DMonitor ( talk) 06:11, 6 May 2024 (UTC)