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I don't think Brion Gysin was either Canadian or Muslim and I haven't seen any evidence that Ian Sommerville was a mathematician, so I've removed those adjectives from the first sentence... they might well be vandalism. Nick 12:00, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Hi, Just added a photo at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dreamachine1.jpg with sime comments and links. More dreamachine photos on line at : http://www.inter-zone.org/catal1.html http://www.inter-zone.org/dm.html http://www.interpc.fr/mapage/westernlands/ http://www.inter-zone.org/dmclass.html
Isabelle Baudron-Aubert baudron@interpc.fr
Oh, um, hey, I'm not too good at this sort of thing, but I put a picture on Commons, http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Scan0023.jpg, and I don't know how to put it with the other dream machine pictures. I was hoping someone with perhaps more, er, prowess could help me out. 'Ppreciate it.
The article mentions that it 'claims' to induce lucid dreaming but doesn't really mention whether people actually find success with it or not. Some more information here would be nice - Averisk 11:05, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
It does not matter about the spacing of the holes, it won’t work. There are free plans you can download right from the web. I once had some notes from a class on why a strobe light works, but I can’t find that information online, and I no longer have the notes. I believe either the light itself from a light bulb is wrong, or the timing is wrong or both.-- Robert551 04:28, 14 July 2006 (UTC) I have done further research and I have found that flickering which is more random such as sunlight coming into the window of an indoor pool. When the sun reflects upon the water that is being splashed about by swimmers there is more of an hypnotic effect, then with the dream machine because the flickering is too regular and not random enough to produce interesting dancing shapes of light behind one's closed eyes. Brion gysin original found that looking out the window of a bus as the sunlight flickered off and on from behind things like trees? That flicking is what inspired him to create a machine that could attempt to replicate the same experiences. But, I could be that sunlight coming through windows are the best possible experiences and not a machine with a light bulb. Robert551 ( talk) 05:45, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
I would be willing to change my statement to the dreamachine does not work for me or for many other people. I found it boring, and the flicking was too regular to be interesting. I am sure they are some people who find it relaxing, but it does not create an altered state by itself. One would have to consecrate and mediate which can be done with or without a dreammachine to reach an altered state of consciousness. It does not automatically induce such a state as the name "Machine" implies. Robert551 ( talk) 05:45, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
I tried the online version in this article and I felt a bit of how I feel when I'm entering a lucid dream. What some people describe as nausea is actually the loss of the sense of your body. When you are asleep you do not feel your body, and thus you feel as if you are floating. This floating sensation gives way to a spinning feeling, what I like to think of as a paranoia, "if you cannot feel yourself how do you know you are not spinning?!" is a nice way to explain it. So you ask, "does it work"? my answer is "it can." Just have to be open-minded and know what is going on in your head somewhat. --Rewen 09:28, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
When i was 17 years old .Resting before a baseball game in our livingroom floor with the sun at about a 45 degree angle from my eyes,shineing through the window I streched my arms out in front of my face and over my head.I noticed the flicker of light when my hands blocked the sun from my eyes was ,cool.I decided to move them back and forth quickly and see what happend. Patterns and colors of some specific geometry danced on the back of my eyelids .I couldnt do that all day ,my arms got tired and i had a baseball gaME to play.It was very relaxing ,and the longer i did it the more vivid the patterns became.Also ive notice when rideing as a passenger on a vehicle alongside some trees with the sun behind them ,where repetidly it peaks through ,face the sun and close your eyes enjoy the ride. I dont have a dreamachine ,but i want one .Those experiences tell me there is much more to behold. aj242008@yahoo.com ,Username -waydeep thanks —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Waydeep (
talk •
contribs)
15:20, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
could someone please explain what are these? are you referring to so-called 'brainmachines' (these glasses with flickering LEDs). and also what means 'air-propelled viewmaster type' ? thank you. -- 7Hz, 11 January 2006
Reverting to a version from 19 September 2005 is not helpful. Please do not do that. Discuss any changes here, please. — Viriditas | Talk 01:50, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
I've read a lot about the dream machine, but have seen different info about at what frequency the flashing will create the desired effect. Most sources seem to say about 20 flashes per second (different from this article). Sources usually claim that this stmulates or matches "your brain waves." But WHICH brain waves? The conclusions are wildly different. I would love to see some more precise info. Flange P. Vibrator 21:33, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Sites that sell these also offer a lot of other devices with extraordinary claims, such as a "Wishing Machine." Maybe the purpose is to put more hope in a different device if just buying the Dreamachine doesn't work.
According to Flickers of the Dreamachine, Gysin received the patent number PV86828 on July 18, 1961. According to this webpage, the patent number is P.V.868,281. I searched both numbers on http://www.uspto.gov/, but none of these two numbers seems to be correct. Elamita
someone wrote on the to-do list that mr. woodard is the "sole Burroughs authorized Dreamachine" maker... to my modest knowledge, this is untrue. i do not want to minimize mr. woodard activity, just say i think there is no such thing as an "authorized" dreamachine maker: 1, the dreamachine has been patented by Gysin around 1961. the patent number is cited in two published books, but i've been unable to find them on the US patents website (see section above). it is unclear at least for me, if this patent is still valid. 2, around 1974 gysin sold(or gave?) his plans to art dealer carl laszlo to commercialize the dreamachine, but laszlo built only 20 of them for some art galleries. this is stated for example in a gysin biography by ramuncho matta, a close gysin late-collaborator. 3, around 1984 gysin collaborated with genesis p-orridge and andrew mckenzie to the first commercially available dreamachine. as both artists (p-orridge & mckenzie) are still active, someone should contact them to investigate further. 3, french-based artists étant-donnés have stated in some interviews that gysin gave them personally a copy of his plans and considered them as sort-of "heirs". again, they should be contacted and asked for details. my two cents. Elamita 14:18, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
hello. later this year, a definitive edition/re-release of "the hafler trio and thee temple ov psychick youth present brion gysin's dreamachine", complete with plastic dreamachine to the precise specifications approved by Gysin before his death and DVD of archive footage and documentary, will be published by Soleilmoon. many of the questions raised here will hopefully be answered there. it would be nice if you could provide in your references some mention that we originally released a dreammachine kit, book, LP and CD on KK Records, Belgium, in 1989, as well as a video. there was also a performance that was the world's first exposition of the dreamachine with sound material designed to give similar effects as with the visual. here are some links:
http://www.brainwashed.com/h3o/dreamachine/ and
http://www.brainwashed.com/h3o/dream.html. many of the questions posed here on this page are answered in those links and the links they in turn lead to. regards, --andrew m.mckenzie
213.35.235.249
20:09, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
It appears Gareth Spor has added information about himseld and his "updated" Dreamachine to this page. I suggest his contribution to be deleted, as it is more advertisement for Gareth than information contributing to the subject. Opinions? -- Qmwpeto ( talk) 09:37, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Should there be a mention of Fechner Color (Pattern Induced Flicker Colors):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fechner_color
Is there any relationship between a Dream-Machine and Benham's Top?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benham%27s_top
32.97.110.142 ( talk) 17:58, 24 September 2008 (UTC)Dave
I reworded the description of Sommerville as a "scientist" from the lead, since the supporting reference "Everything is Permuted -- Inside Out: The Mysticism of dreamachines" merely says
which to any reasonable reader means no more than "they collaborated on it, Gysin from the artistic side and Sommerville from the scientific". Everything in our coverage suggests Sommerville had a technical background, e.g. enuf to see what math to do in choosing the record-player speed, enuf to write a program to manipulate text using a cookbook random-number-generator, enuf to understand the specs on high-end recording equipment and perform (or oversee) maintenance on it. If he had a B.S. degree in math, that would probably make him a mathematician (B.A. maybe not, M.S. pretty surely), but not a scientist. There is no reason to believe he was a scientist.
--
Jerzy•
t
05:49, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
Hello, I think the article should include a mention of the first commercially available Dreamachine, produced by the Temple ov thee Psychick Youth & Andrew M. McKenzie of the Hafler Trio.
Here are the detals:
Hafler Trio, The & Thee Temple Ov Psychick Youth - Present Brion Gysin's Dreamachine. Published by KK records (Belgium, 1989) - catalog number KK 015. 72 pages booklet + Dreamachine template + audio CD containing three tracks to be used with the Dreamachine.
Also, I noticed that the link to the 10111.org ( http://10111.org) webpage disappeared from the external links. This group is manufacturing Dreamachines replicas, and they reproduced two old models (prototypes?) from the sixties. In their database, there's quite a lot of information. Shouldn't this link be re-included?
Regards, Elamita ( talk) 15:41, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
The external link included in this section (A detailed explanation of how to build a dream machine By Dan Petley) is not so detailed. It's rather poorly written and misleading: it's not impossible to find a cardboard sheet of the proper size; plans are well available on the internet; the included templates are "borrowed" without citing the source; overall, it's biased. Shouldn't this be removed?
External links of interest are:
http://www.noah.org/wiki/Dreamachine
http://www.inter-zone.org/dm.html
Regards, Elamita ( talk) 07:48, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
What does "homemade version semi-off" mean? Шизомби ( talk) 16:27, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
To-do list for Dreamachine:
|
I don't think Brion Gysin was either Canadian or Muslim and I haven't seen any evidence that Ian Sommerville was a mathematician, so I've removed those adjectives from the first sentence... they might well be vandalism. Nick 12:00, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Hi, Just added a photo at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dreamachine1.jpg with sime comments and links. More dreamachine photos on line at : http://www.inter-zone.org/catal1.html http://www.inter-zone.org/dm.html http://www.interpc.fr/mapage/westernlands/ http://www.inter-zone.org/dmclass.html
Isabelle Baudron-Aubert baudron@interpc.fr
Oh, um, hey, I'm not too good at this sort of thing, but I put a picture on Commons, http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Scan0023.jpg, and I don't know how to put it with the other dream machine pictures. I was hoping someone with perhaps more, er, prowess could help me out. 'Ppreciate it.
The article mentions that it 'claims' to induce lucid dreaming but doesn't really mention whether people actually find success with it or not. Some more information here would be nice - Averisk 11:05, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
It does not matter about the spacing of the holes, it won’t work. There are free plans you can download right from the web. I once had some notes from a class on why a strobe light works, but I can’t find that information online, and I no longer have the notes. I believe either the light itself from a light bulb is wrong, or the timing is wrong or both.-- Robert551 04:28, 14 July 2006 (UTC) I have done further research and I have found that flickering which is more random such as sunlight coming into the window of an indoor pool. When the sun reflects upon the water that is being splashed about by swimmers there is more of an hypnotic effect, then with the dream machine because the flickering is too regular and not random enough to produce interesting dancing shapes of light behind one's closed eyes. Brion gysin original found that looking out the window of a bus as the sunlight flickered off and on from behind things like trees? That flicking is what inspired him to create a machine that could attempt to replicate the same experiences. But, I could be that sunlight coming through windows are the best possible experiences and not a machine with a light bulb. Robert551 ( talk) 05:45, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
I would be willing to change my statement to the dreamachine does not work for me or for many other people. I found it boring, and the flicking was too regular to be interesting. I am sure they are some people who find it relaxing, but it does not create an altered state by itself. One would have to consecrate and mediate which can be done with or without a dreammachine to reach an altered state of consciousness. It does not automatically induce such a state as the name "Machine" implies. Robert551 ( talk) 05:45, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
I tried the online version in this article and I felt a bit of how I feel when I'm entering a lucid dream. What some people describe as nausea is actually the loss of the sense of your body. When you are asleep you do not feel your body, and thus you feel as if you are floating. This floating sensation gives way to a spinning feeling, what I like to think of as a paranoia, "if you cannot feel yourself how do you know you are not spinning?!" is a nice way to explain it. So you ask, "does it work"? my answer is "it can." Just have to be open-minded and know what is going on in your head somewhat. --Rewen 09:28, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
When i was 17 years old .Resting before a baseball game in our livingroom floor with the sun at about a 45 degree angle from my eyes,shineing through the window I streched my arms out in front of my face and over my head.I noticed the flicker of light when my hands blocked the sun from my eyes was ,cool.I decided to move them back and forth quickly and see what happend. Patterns and colors of some specific geometry danced on the back of my eyelids .I couldnt do that all day ,my arms got tired and i had a baseball gaME to play.It was very relaxing ,and the longer i did it the more vivid the patterns became.Also ive notice when rideing as a passenger on a vehicle alongside some trees with the sun behind them ,where repetidly it peaks through ,face the sun and close your eyes enjoy the ride. I dont have a dreamachine ,but i want one .Those experiences tell me there is much more to behold. aj242008@yahoo.com ,Username -waydeep thanks —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Waydeep (
talk •
contribs)
15:20, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
could someone please explain what are these? are you referring to so-called 'brainmachines' (these glasses with flickering LEDs). and also what means 'air-propelled viewmaster type' ? thank you. -- 7Hz, 11 January 2006
Reverting to a version from 19 September 2005 is not helpful. Please do not do that. Discuss any changes here, please. — Viriditas | Talk 01:50, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
I've read a lot about the dream machine, but have seen different info about at what frequency the flashing will create the desired effect. Most sources seem to say about 20 flashes per second (different from this article). Sources usually claim that this stmulates or matches "your brain waves." But WHICH brain waves? The conclusions are wildly different. I would love to see some more precise info. Flange P. Vibrator 21:33, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Sites that sell these also offer a lot of other devices with extraordinary claims, such as a "Wishing Machine." Maybe the purpose is to put more hope in a different device if just buying the Dreamachine doesn't work.
According to Flickers of the Dreamachine, Gysin received the patent number PV86828 on July 18, 1961. According to this webpage, the patent number is P.V.868,281. I searched both numbers on http://www.uspto.gov/, but none of these two numbers seems to be correct. Elamita
someone wrote on the to-do list that mr. woodard is the "sole Burroughs authorized Dreamachine" maker... to my modest knowledge, this is untrue. i do not want to minimize mr. woodard activity, just say i think there is no such thing as an "authorized" dreamachine maker: 1, the dreamachine has been patented by Gysin around 1961. the patent number is cited in two published books, but i've been unable to find them on the US patents website (see section above). it is unclear at least for me, if this patent is still valid. 2, around 1974 gysin sold(or gave?) his plans to art dealer carl laszlo to commercialize the dreamachine, but laszlo built only 20 of them for some art galleries. this is stated for example in a gysin biography by ramuncho matta, a close gysin late-collaborator. 3, around 1984 gysin collaborated with genesis p-orridge and andrew mckenzie to the first commercially available dreamachine. as both artists (p-orridge & mckenzie) are still active, someone should contact them to investigate further. 3, french-based artists étant-donnés have stated in some interviews that gysin gave them personally a copy of his plans and considered them as sort-of "heirs". again, they should be contacted and asked for details. my two cents. Elamita 14:18, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
hello. later this year, a definitive edition/re-release of "the hafler trio and thee temple ov psychick youth present brion gysin's dreamachine", complete with plastic dreamachine to the precise specifications approved by Gysin before his death and DVD of archive footage and documentary, will be published by Soleilmoon. many of the questions raised here will hopefully be answered there. it would be nice if you could provide in your references some mention that we originally released a dreammachine kit, book, LP and CD on KK Records, Belgium, in 1989, as well as a video. there was also a performance that was the world's first exposition of the dreamachine with sound material designed to give similar effects as with the visual. here are some links:
http://www.brainwashed.com/h3o/dreamachine/ and
http://www.brainwashed.com/h3o/dream.html. many of the questions posed here on this page are answered in those links and the links they in turn lead to. regards, --andrew m.mckenzie
213.35.235.249
20:09, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
It appears Gareth Spor has added information about himseld and his "updated" Dreamachine to this page. I suggest his contribution to be deleted, as it is more advertisement for Gareth than information contributing to the subject. Opinions? -- Qmwpeto ( talk) 09:37, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Should there be a mention of Fechner Color (Pattern Induced Flicker Colors):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fechner_color
Is there any relationship between a Dream-Machine and Benham's Top?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benham%27s_top
32.97.110.142 ( talk) 17:58, 24 September 2008 (UTC)Dave
I reworded the description of Sommerville as a "scientist" from the lead, since the supporting reference "Everything is Permuted -- Inside Out: The Mysticism of dreamachines" merely says
which to any reasonable reader means no more than "they collaborated on it, Gysin from the artistic side and Sommerville from the scientific". Everything in our coverage suggests Sommerville had a technical background, e.g. enuf to see what math to do in choosing the record-player speed, enuf to write a program to manipulate text using a cookbook random-number-generator, enuf to understand the specs on high-end recording equipment and perform (or oversee) maintenance on it. If he had a B.S. degree in math, that would probably make him a mathematician (B.A. maybe not, M.S. pretty surely), but not a scientist. There is no reason to believe he was a scientist.
--
Jerzy•
t
05:49, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
Hello, I think the article should include a mention of the first commercially available Dreamachine, produced by the Temple ov thee Psychick Youth & Andrew M. McKenzie of the Hafler Trio.
Here are the detals:
Hafler Trio, The & Thee Temple Ov Psychick Youth - Present Brion Gysin's Dreamachine. Published by KK records (Belgium, 1989) - catalog number KK 015. 72 pages booklet + Dreamachine template + audio CD containing three tracks to be used with the Dreamachine.
Also, I noticed that the link to the 10111.org ( http://10111.org) webpage disappeared from the external links. This group is manufacturing Dreamachines replicas, and they reproduced two old models (prototypes?) from the sixties. In their database, there's quite a lot of information. Shouldn't this link be re-included?
Regards, Elamita ( talk) 15:41, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
The external link included in this section (A detailed explanation of how to build a dream machine By Dan Petley) is not so detailed. It's rather poorly written and misleading: it's not impossible to find a cardboard sheet of the proper size; plans are well available on the internet; the included templates are "borrowed" without citing the source; overall, it's biased. Shouldn't this be removed?
External links of interest are:
http://www.noah.org/wiki/Dreamachine
http://www.inter-zone.org/dm.html
Regards, Elamita ( talk) 07:48, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
What does "homemade version semi-off" mean? Шизомби ( talk) 16:27, 7 March 2009 (UTC)