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There needs to be an addition for the viewpoint against things like Drag Story Time, etc. to go along with the sources that are proponents. The current status of the section is merely an editorial quote via one person.
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 August 2023 and 8 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Airam Gomez ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: Natalie.alvarez314.
— Assignment last updated by ACHorwitz ( talk) 16:18, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2023 and 15 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Micklepickle01 ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Ktrachsel01 ( talk) 01:08, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
Since we are apparently a society of full inclusion, no matter what, I would like to ask that the term cisgender be removed from the article and replaced with heterosexual or straight as I find the above term non inclusive of the rights of heterosexual people. Thank you. 31.126.66.175 ( talk) 16:15, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
This is most likely a red herring, but in case anyone feels like investigating further: one of the words for 'a costume' or 'an outfit' in Norwegian, Danish and Swedish is
—suggesting a connection with being 'in costume'.
(Links go to dictionary entries in those languages.)
In German, I think it's Tracht. Not sure about Dutch.
It's perfectly possible,though, that being in drag is unrelated to these. The OED don't mention anything along those lines, for example. (When learning Norwegian, I assumed the words were related, and remembered drakt that way.) Musiconeologist ( talk) 16:50, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
You should point out that trans men can also be drag queens (and not only drag kings) as a performance like the famous Gottmik. 2A01:E0A:5DA:C520:C076:CBBE:592B:1EBF ( talk) 15:11, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Isn't it obvouls that this whole section belongs in the arcticle Drag (entertainment), not here? SergeWoodzing ( talk) 14:36, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
I rolled back 2 edits where an image had been added here as a separate section, but with no explaiation or request, SergeWoodzing ( talk) 08:38, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
@ SergeWoodzing I just created a quick article on Female impersonation (needs expanding) which makes an important separation from drag (entertainment), although it might be better to move it to gender impersonation. In general, I think we need to do a better job differentiating between gender impersonation and drag because they aren't exactly the same thing. This book makes a compelling distinction where drag is defined as different than female impersonation because of its specifically queer identity: French, Sarah. Staging Queer Feminism. Palgrave Macmillan UK. p. 94. ISBN 9781137465436. We need to recognize that much of what is being presented here as "drag history" isn't exactly drag history but the history of female impersonation which for the majority of history looked nothing like the drag queens of LGBTQ culture. For one thing, female impersonators were predominantly cisgender heterosexual men (at least as far as the public knew) through most of history, and they were taking on female characters in plays and comedy sketches performed for heteronormative audiences as opposed to adopting/developing a drag persona and identity for a queer audience. They also were predominantly performing in works with little to no queer subtext, and in fact there was a concerted effort to deliberately dissociate from queer identity in most cases. Minstrel shows, vaudeville, burlesque, early films for the most part were presenting female impersonators as heteronormative, although undoubtedly some of the performances were queer coded and performed by queer artist who were closeted in some instances. (and those are exactly the types of examples we should be highlighting when looking at drag's roots within the broader subject of female impersonation) In short, I think we should move much of this history to the female impersonation article, and really focus in on the queer identity aspect of drag within this article . 4meter4 ( talk) 05:40, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Drag queen article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5Auto-archiving period: 365 days |
This
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
There needs to be an addition for the viewpoint against things like Drag Story Time, etc. to go along with the sources that are proponents. The current status of the section is merely an editorial quote via one person.
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 August 2023 and 8 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Airam Gomez ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: Natalie.alvarez314.
— Assignment last updated by ACHorwitz ( talk) 16:18, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2023 and 15 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Micklepickle01 ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Ktrachsel01 ( talk) 01:08, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
Since we are apparently a society of full inclusion, no matter what, I would like to ask that the term cisgender be removed from the article and replaced with heterosexual or straight as I find the above term non inclusive of the rights of heterosexual people. Thank you. 31.126.66.175 ( talk) 16:15, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
This is most likely a red herring, but in case anyone feels like investigating further: one of the words for 'a costume' or 'an outfit' in Norwegian, Danish and Swedish is
—suggesting a connection with being 'in costume'.
(Links go to dictionary entries in those languages.)
In German, I think it's Tracht. Not sure about Dutch.
It's perfectly possible,though, that being in drag is unrelated to these. The OED don't mention anything along those lines, for example. (When learning Norwegian, I assumed the words were related, and remembered drakt that way.) Musiconeologist ( talk) 16:50, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
You should point out that trans men can also be drag queens (and not only drag kings) as a performance like the famous Gottmik. 2A01:E0A:5DA:C520:C076:CBBE:592B:1EBF ( talk) 15:11, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Isn't it obvouls that this whole section belongs in the arcticle Drag (entertainment), not here? SergeWoodzing ( talk) 14:36, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
I rolled back 2 edits where an image had been added here as a separate section, but with no explaiation or request, SergeWoodzing ( talk) 08:38, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
@ SergeWoodzing I just created a quick article on Female impersonation (needs expanding) which makes an important separation from drag (entertainment), although it might be better to move it to gender impersonation. In general, I think we need to do a better job differentiating between gender impersonation and drag because they aren't exactly the same thing. This book makes a compelling distinction where drag is defined as different than female impersonation because of its specifically queer identity: French, Sarah. Staging Queer Feminism. Palgrave Macmillan UK. p. 94. ISBN 9781137465436. We need to recognize that much of what is being presented here as "drag history" isn't exactly drag history but the history of female impersonation which for the majority of history looked nothing like the drag queens of LGBTQ culture. For one thing, female impersonators were predominantly cisgender heterosexual men (at least as far as the public knew) through most of history, and they were taking on female characters in plays and comedy sketches performed for heteronormative audiences as opposed to adopting/developing a drag persona and identity for a queer audience. They also were predominantly performing in works with little to no queer subtext, and in fact there was a concerted effort to deliberately dissociate from queer identity in most cases. Minstrel shows, vaudeville, burlesque, early films for the most part were presenting female impersonators as heteronormative, although undoubtedly some of the performances were queer coded and performed by queer artist who were closeted in some instances. (and those are exactly the types of examples we should be highlighting when looking at drag's roots within the broader subject of female impersonation) In short, I think we should move much of this history to the female impersonation article, and really focus in on the queer identity aspect of drag within this article . 4meter4 ( talk) 05:40, 11 June 2024 (UTC)