This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future: |
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
I'm just wondering how you can publish your own comics, like Doujinshi, if anyone knows please post a message. Hey Joe what you know? ( talk) 23:17, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Another thing you might want to add is the fact that Dojinshi doesn't stop at fan-created work of existing titles. Doujinshi is also comprised of "Original Work"....this brings you to large events outside of Comiket which is Comitia which solely places emphasis on original titles from independent artists/authors. In fact, Comiket ALSO has a big section of original works as well. I was just at the last two comikets as well as Comitia which is quartely so I've seen them. This article that is currently in Wikipedia is a bit misleading. I also second what the poster typed down below. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.6.89.169 ( talk) 19:26, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello;
It's been a while I've been watching this page, and I've finally decided to say and do what I have to today.
As it's stated in the introduction of this article, Dojins arent restricted to comic books/mangas. Basically every medias are covered by doujin releases, such as games, music and videos. I am myself a Doujin Music amateur and feel having the general term Dojin linking to this Dojinshi entry, and the Dojin Soft one would be by far more logical. As a matter of fact, Doujinshi (同人誌) is a sub category of Doujin (同人). Doujin Music would be 同人音楽.
I hope it's ok for me to take such an step and that everyoen will understand and agree with my reasoning.
-- Nikisiou 10:33, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
So what are these copyright laws that force short runs of doujinshi? -- coldacid 14:20, 2004 May 3 (UTC)
I'm preferring Doujinshi instead of Dojinshi for this article's name, for the same reason we prefer Tokyo to Tōkyō. Ashibaka ✎ 19:21, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
That reason would be the same reason it's ecchi and not etchi: the one used in english more is ecchi. Note that in the manual of style you quoted it says "An English word or name with a Japanese origin should be used in its English form in the body of an article, even if that is pronounced or spelled differently from the properly romanized Japanese form: use Mount Fuji, Tokyo, jiu jitsu, shogi and not Fujisan, Tōkyō, jūjutsu, shōgi." And note that in english, and indeed western languages in general, the more commonly used is doujinshi as noted here As a matter of fact, when you type dojinshi into google, it gives you the same message as though you had spelled it wrong. - Aknorals 22:07, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)
No, what we are really trying to get at is dojinshi with a macron. That is a more academic spelling than "doujinshi", which is popularized by anime fans. "Dojinshi" with a macron is not possible as an article title, so we use "dojinshi". "Dojinshi" isn't a person, and there is no one body that governs dojinshi, and dojinshi doesn't appear in the dictionary, so academic spelling applies. WhisperToMe 17:14, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you are all arguing about. There is one usually accepted means of romanization. Ecchi stays ecchi. Try typing it into a japanese input method on your computer (if you have it installed). Someone correct me if I am wrong but ecchi in hiragana is えっち. Which would mean ecchi is the correct romanization. Likewise (correct me if I am wrong again) doujinshi is どうじんし and you should use a one or two letter set for most romanization (except for the more complex ones like kya きゃ and others). Wikipedia should stick to the generally accepted means of romanization. Dōjinshi should be changed to the accurate Doujinshi and Dojin should be changed to the accurate Doujin. This is the generally used term and is also correct romanization so there are no compromises. I do not see why people are having a problem with this. Ergzay 05:23, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Are Dōjinshi exclusively Japanese? The web-comic Megatokyo (for example) explicitly claims to being a 'Doujinshi' and many other web-comics drawn in Manga style also would appear to fit the description to an extent (a better example might be the Powerpuff Girls Doujinshi). — Leedar 14:35, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I think it's worth noting that in the English-speaking world "doujinshi" (or "doujin") is quite often a euphemism for hentai featuring characters from popular anime (Try searching "doujin" on Google for example). — Casey J. Morris July 7, 2005 06:42 (UTC)
There are 7 external links that all point to the same website. After looking at the history it would seem that whoever put those links there keeps putting them back after other someone has removed them. Can the spam be kept off of the article? — Isuldor 09:15, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
I still question the validity of the external links, all four read like advertisements and aren't relevant to someone looking for information on dojinshi. 71.224.112.22 ( talk) 03:58, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
What about legality of doujinshi (when they use characters from another company's anime or manga)? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.82.84.67 ( talk • contribs) .
Depends on the jurisdiction in which they are produced and/or distributed and the attitude to such fan created works of the intellectual property right(s) holder(s) in that jurisdiction or jurisdictions. Alex Law 08:57, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
Any ideas on where to look into maybe finding someone willing to make their doujinshi free use? Or at least just the cover. Seems like someone out there wouldn't mind.-- SeizureDog 08:00, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Is it really neutral to state that "most" people in the west think of doujinshi as derivative or pornographic? According to what source? Personal experience? Bias against westerners? A source needs to be cited, or the neutrality of the "perception section needs to be assessed. Fade 00:39, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Notice that dōjinshi and samizdat both mean (roughly translated) "self-publishing". The fact that the one actually mostly means "porn" in practice, and the other "political pamphlet" (even if in neither case exclusively) seems to me to reflect on what is "repressed" in each of the originating countries. :-) -- Tonymec 17:57, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, that makes sense. -- AnY FOUR! 23:17, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
What? They only can be in English or Japanese? Better definition please. Like self-published manga with linkie to manga. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hitsuji Kinno ( talk • contribs) 18:57, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
I've decided not to add this information here, because it is not sourced, but, accroding to ru:Додзинси, dōjinshi was initially literary magazines (not novels), and the term itself is a Japanese portmanteau of dojinzasshi (同人雑誌). It's also said that the term was initially related to junbungaku literature ( 純文学), "pure literature" (i.e. serious books, not pop-oriented). -- deerstop. 16:47, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
Yano Research Reports on Japan's 2009-10 Otaku Market
-- KrebMarkt ( talk) 19:51, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/?title=Talk:Higurashi_When_They_Cry&diff=prev&oldid=448145945 -- Gwern (contribs) 02:27 3 September 2011 (GMT)
Major Wired article from 2007. Axem Titanium ( talk) 20:44, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
Are you seriously trying to make people believe that Touhou doesn't have much adult dojinshi? Have you LOOKED around lately? There's a joke that goes "new Touhou doujins get created every 5 seconds". I'm sorry, I just don't buy that Touhou is an "exception" rather than the norm.-- 68.6.182.39 ( talk) 21:22, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
I found this gem of an uncited statement:
“ | At the Convention, over 20 acres (81,000 m2) of dōjinshi are bought, sold, and traded by attendees. | ” |
Obviously this needs to be fixed. Can someone improve this statement? Marowmerowmer ( talk) 08:16, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Dōjinshi. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 09:44, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
Can we have a more appropriate doujinshi cover image for this page? Right now we've got one about peeking at the panties of underage school girls. That kind of doujinshi is a pretty small minority. There are lots of safe for work doujinshi, and lots of doujinshi with erotic content that have safe for work covers. I feel that the current cover is giving the wrong impression of what most doujinshi are like. Amanoshi ( talk) 11:58, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
I've removed this again for reasons similar to the ones articulated by Charon. Since it is not an actual doujin cover, it does not effectively illustrate the statement about how doujin covers emulate manga covers. Without that, we're just including an upskirt picture of a child for the hell of it. – Roscelese ( talk ⋅ contribs) 03:03, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Andrewa ( talk) 09:09, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
Dōjinshi → Doujinshi – Since the word "同人誌/dōjinshi" is commonly romanized as "doujinshi", I believe this article should be renamed in courtesy towards WP:COMMONNAME and the "Determining common usage" section of WP:ROMAJI... 69.160.29.222 ( talk) 04:40, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
18:28, 23 June 2005 WhisperToMe talk contribs block 23 bytes +23 Doujinshi moved to Dojinshi 21:06, 6 July 2005 DopefishJustin talk contribs block 23 bytes +23 Dojinshi moved to Dōjinshi: macrons in titles are possible now
Hopefully this will lead to stability. Andrewa ( talk) 09:06, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved articles. Categories should be listed at WP:Categories for discussion/Speedy ( non-admin closure) ( t · c) buidhe 14:24, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
– In September of this year, two discussions closed { 1, 2} with the decision to move "Dōjin" to "Doujin" and "Dōjinshi" to "Doujinshi". As far as I can tell, there are now 5 pages on the English Wikipedia with "dōjin" in the title, so I wanted to start a discussion about them in the interest of consistency.
From what I can see, these last two moves were correct because they obey WP:ROMAJI, which says to use the most common romanization. Scholarly material on the subject of doujin culture is a little sparse, but my searches of Google Scholar ( "doujin", "dōjin", and "dojin") and Books ( "doujin", "dōjin", and "dojin") seem to show a similar prevalence of "doujin" and "dōjin", though the sample size is very small. Here is the Ngram chart: [1].
A search of Anime News Network reporting (a common and widespread WP:ANIME RS) seems to show a prevalence of "doujin" (1,240 news hits) over "dōjin" (676 hits) and "dojin" (497 hits, though this captured many "dōjin" results as well) in raw numbers, as well in a variety of common uses. Searching specifically for the exact terms in this RM, though, the # of results are not sufficient to determine: { [2] [3] [4]} and { [5] [6] [7]}.
Note to closer: there are several categories and subcategories that would be need to renamed if this proposal passes (see Category:Dōjin). — Goszei ( talk) 09:50, 6 December 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. BegbertBiggs ( talk) 16:29, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
neither encouraged nor discouraged" per WP:DIACRITICS, the ngram suggests that this is the proper title. It is also probably easier for the common English speaker to understand/pronounce phonetically. And of course, consistency with prior moves. - 2pou ( talk) 17:54, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
See Talk:Doujinshi convention#Requested move 20 October 2021. -- Thibaut ( talk) 04:11, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
Can we get rid of this bit? It's so obviously nonsense. Eldomtom2 ( talk) 09:50, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future: |
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
I'm just wondering how you can publish your own comics, like Doujinshi, if anyone knows please post a message. Hey Joe what you know? ( talk) 23:17, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Another thing you might want to add is the fact that Dojinshi doesn't stop at fan-created work of existing titles. Doujinshi is also comprised of "Original Work"....this brings you to large events outside of Comiket which is Comitia which solely places emphasis on original titles from independent artists/authors. In fact, Comiket ALSO has a big section of original works as well. I was just at the last two comikets as well as Comitia which is quartely so I've seen them. This article that is currently in Wikipedia is a bit misleading. I also second what the poster typed down below. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.6.89.169 ( talk) 19:26, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello;
It's been a while I've been watching this page, and I've finally decided to say and do what I have to today.
As it's stated in the introduction of this article, Dojins arent restricted to comic books/mangas. Basically every medias are covered by doujin releases, such as games, music and videos. I am myself a Doujin Music amateur and feel having the general term Dojin linking to this Dojinshi entry, and the Dojin Soft one would be by far more logical. As a matter of fact, Doujinshi (同人誌) is a sub category of Doujin (同人). Doujin Music would be 同人音楽.
I hope it's ok for me to take such an step and that everyoen will understand and agree with my reasoning.
-- Nikisiou 10:33, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
So what are these copyright laws that force short runs of doujinshi? -- coldacid 14:20, 2004 May 3 (UTC)
I'm preferring Doujinshi instead of Dojinshi for this article's name, for the same reason we prefer Tokyo to Tōkyō. Ashibaka ✎ 19:21, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
That reason would be the same reason it's ecchi and not etchi: the one used in english more is ecchi. Note that in the manual of style you quoted it says "An English word or name with a Japanese origin should be used in its English form in the body of an article, even if that is pronounced or spelled differently from the properly romanized Japanese form: use Mount Fuji, Tokyo, jiu jitsu, shogi and not Fujisan, Tōkyō, jūjutsu, shōgi." And note that in english, and indeed western languages in general, the more commonly used is doujinshi as noted here As a matter of fact, when you type dojinshi into google, it gives you the same message as though you had spelled it wrong. - Aknorals 22:07, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)
No, what we are really trying to get at is dojinshi with a macron. That is a more academic spelling than "doujinshi", which is popularized by anime fans. "Dojinshi" with a macron is not possible as an article title, so we use "dojinshi". "Dojinshi" isn't a person, and there is no one body that governs dojinshi, and dojinshi doesn't appear in the dictionary, so academic spelling applies. WhisperToMe 17:14, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you are all arguing about. There is one usually accepted means of romanization. Ecchi stays ecchi. Try typing it into a japanese input method on your computer (if you have it installed). Someone correct me if I am wrong but ecchi in hiragana is えっち. Which would mean ecchi is the correct romanization. Likewise (correct me if I am wrong again) doujinshi is どうじんし and you should use a one or two letter set for most romanization (except for the more complex ones like kya きゃ and others). Wikipedia should stick to the generally accepted means of romanization. Dōjinshi should be changed to the accurate Doujinshi and Dojin should be changed to the accurate Doujin. This is the generally used term and is also correct romanization so there are no compromises. I do not see why people are having a problem with this. Ergzay 05:23, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Are Dōjinshi exclusively Japanese? The web-comic Megatokyo (for example) explicitly claims to being a 'Doujinshi' and many other web-comics drawn in Manga style also would appear to fit the description to an extent (a better example might be the Powerpuff Girls Doujinshi). — Leedar 14:35, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I think it's worth noting that in the English-speaking world "doujinshi" (or "doujin") is quite often a euphemism for hentai featuring characters from popular anime (Try searching "doujin" on Google for example). — Casey J. Morris July 7, 2005 06:42 (UTC)
There are 7 external links that all point to the same website. After looking at the history it would seem that whoever put those links there keeps putting them back after other someone has removed them. Can the spam be kept off of the article? — Isuldor 09:15, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
I still question the validity of the external links, all four read like advertisements and aren't relevant to someone looking for information on dojinshi. 71.224.112.22 ( talk) 03:58, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
What about legality of doujinshi (when they use characters from another company's anime or manga)? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.82.84.67 ( talk • contribs) .
Depends on the jurisdiction in which they are produced and/or distributed and the attitude to such fan created works of the intellectual property right(s) holder(s) in that jurisdiction or jurisdictions. Alex Law 08:57, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
Any ideas on where to look into maybe finding someone willing to make their doujinshi free use? Or at least just the cover. Seems like someone out there wouldn't mind.-- SeizureDog 08:00, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Is it really neutral to state that "most" people in the west think of doujinshi as derivative or pornographic? According to what source? Personal experience? Bias against westerners? A source needs to be cited, or the neutrality of the "perception section needs to be assessed. Fade 00:39, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Notice that dōjinshi and samizdat both mean (roughly translated) "self-publishing". The fact that the one actually mostly means "porn" in practice, and the other "political pamphlet" (even if in neither case exclusively) seems to me to reflect on what is "repressed" in each of the originating countries. :-) -- Tonymec 17:57, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, that makes sense. -- AnY FOUR! 23:17, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
What? They only can be in English or Japanese? Better definition please. Like self-published manga with linkie to manga. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hitsuji Kinno ( talk • contribs) 18:57, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
I've decided not to add this information here, because it is not sourced, but, accroding to ru:Додзинси, dōjinshi was initially literary magazines (not novels), and the term itself is a Japanese portmanteau of dojinzasshi (同人雑誌). It's also said that the term was initially related to junbungaku literature ( 純文学), "pure literature" (i.e. serious books, not pop-oriented). -- deerstop. 16:47, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
Yano Research Reports on Japan's 2009-10 Otaku Market
-- KrebMarkt ( talk) 19:51, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/?title=Talk:Higurashi_When_They_Cry&diff=prev&oldid=448145945 -- Gwern (contribs) 02:27 3 September 2011 (GMT)
Major Wired article from 2007. Axem Titanium ( talk) 20:44, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
Are you seriously trying to make people believe that Touhou doesn't have much adult dojinshi? Have you LOOKED around lately? There's a joke that goes "new Touhou doujins get created every 5 seconds". I'm sorry, I just don't buy that Touhou is an "exception" rather than the norm.-- 68.6.182.39 ( talk) 21:22, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
I found this gem of an uncited statement:
“ | At the Convention, over 20 acres (81,000 m2) of dōjinshi are bought, sold, and traded by attendees. | ” |
Obviously this needs to be fixed. Can someone improve this statement? Marowmerowmer ( talk) 08:16, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Dōjinshi. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 09:44, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
Can we have a more appropriate doujinshi cover image for this page? Right now we've got one about peeking at the panties of underage school girls. That kind of doujinshi is a pretty small minority. There are lots of safe for work doujinshi, and lots of doujinshi with erotic content that have safe for work covers. I feel that the current cover is giving the wrong impression of what most doujinshi are like. Amanoshi ( talk) 11:58, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
I've removed this again for reasons similar to the ones articulated by Charon. Since it is not an actual doujin cover, it does not effectively illustrate the statement about how doujin covers emulate manga covers. Without that, we're just including an upskirt picture of a child for the hell of it. – Roscelese ( talk ⋅ contribs) 03:03, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Andrewa ( talk) 09:09, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
Dōjinshi → Doujinshi – Since the word "同人誌/dōjinshi" is commonly romanized as "doujinshi", I believe this article should be renamed in courtesy towards WP:COMMONNAME and the "Determining common usage" section of WP:ROMAJI... 69.160.29.222 ( talk) 04:40, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
18:28, 23 June 2005 WhisperToMe talk contribs block 23 bytes +23 Doujinshi moved to Dojinshi 21:06, 6 July 2005 DopefishJustin talk contribs block 23 bytes +23 Dojinshi moved to Dōjinshi: macrons in titles are possible now
Hopefully this will lead to stability. Andrewa ( talk) 09:06, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved articles. Categories should be listed at WP:Categories for discussion/Speedy ( non-admin closure) ( t · c) buidhe 14:24, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
– In September of this year, two discussions closed { 1, 2} with the decision to move "Dōjin" to "Doujin" and "Dōjinshi" to "Doujinshi". As far as I can tell, there are now 5 pages on the English Wikipedia with "dōjin" in the title, so I wanted to start a discussion about them in the interest of consistency.
From what I can see, these last two moves were correct because they obey WP:ROMAJI, which says to use the most common romanization. Scholarly material on the subject of doujin culture is a little sparse, but my searches of Google Scholar ( "doujin", "dōjin", and "dojin") and Books ( "doujin", "dōjin", and "dojin") seem to show a similar prevalence of "doujin" and "dōjin", though the sample size is very small. Here is the Ngram chart: [1].
A search of Anime News Network reporting (a common and widespread WP:ANIME RS) seems to show a prevalence of "doujin" (1,240 news hits) over "dōjin" (676 hits) and "dojin" (497 hits, though this captured many "dōjin" results as well) in raw numbers, as well in a variety of common uses. Searching specifically for the exact terms in this RM, though, the # of results are not sufficient to determine: { [2] [3] [4]} and { [5] [6] [7]}.
Note to closer: there are several categories and subcategories that would be need to renamed if this proposal passes (see Category:Dōjin). — Goszei ( talk) 09:50, 6 December 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. BegbertBiggs ( talk) 16:29, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
neither encouraged nor discouraged" per WP:DIACRITICS, the ngram suggests that this is the proper title. It is also probably easier for the common English speaker to understand/pronounce phonetically. And of course, consistency with prior moves. - 2pou ( talk) 17:54, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
See Talk:Doujinshi convention#Requested move 20 October 2021. -- Thibaut ( talk) 04:11, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
Can we get rid of this bit? It's so obviously nonsense. Eldomtom2 ( talk) 09:50, 30 October 2022 (UTC)