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Per the tag statement - you may remove this tag if you "object to its deletion for any reason" - the lede clearly denotes the subject is well-known and pioneer in facial surgery. A quick search found three books [1] , A lecture he did for the American Society of Plastic Surgeons [2] and this bio info:
"I am, and have been, on the boards of many plastic surgical societies, including being President of the American Society of Maxillofacial Surgeons (1994-1995), and on the editorial board of four different plastic surgery journals. I am on the Advisory Committee for "Recommended Guidelines for Transgender Care", AEGIS.
I hold staff memberships at several hospitals, including Davies Medical Center, Saint Francis Memorial Hospital, California Pacific Medical Center, and the University of California, San Francisco, where I am a Clinical Professor of Plastic Surgery, participating especially with a panel of experts at the Center for Craniofacial Anomalies. I have operated in many countries outside the United States.
Throughout my career, I have presented dozens of major scientific papers, both nationally and internationally. I have published scores of scientific papers. My medical textbook, Aesthetic Contouring of the Craniofacial Skeleton, was published in 1991."
I see little to contradict this information and assert that a deletion before improving the article with regular editing is quite premature. Benjiboi 07:46, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Added advert and coi tags to article using Friendly. Reason behind this is edits have been made to this page by Mira Coluccio who is Douglas K. Ousterhout's office manager and business partner. Also involves talking about a former patient opening other legal issues which could be taken by the patient. Using Wikipedia to disclose patient information by a doctor or employee/business partner of that doctor could become a legal matter. Janemillert 06:36, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
I have placed the speedy deletion tag on this page for the following reason this page is being used to promote a comerical interest for this doctor by his through the direction of Mira Coluccio.
--- WP:OUTING material deleted. ---
So now that we have deterimed that you are spaming your own link under the direction of the offices of Dr. Ousterhout and your company through back linking.
Another fact that proves this very clearly is that you removed the link for Trinity Rose of http://www.facialfeminizationsurgery.net/facialfeminizationsurgery.html which makes this a neuatal article since it advises people of the negative aspects of having this surgery.
This is another attempt to use wikipedia as a advertiser for this doctor.
James, Andrea (Andrea James) A.K.A. joketress sells a video promoting Dr. Ousterhout this in many venues with the consent of Dr. Ousterhout as can be seen in the video all over the web. She also promotes his book. Dr. Ousterhout also sponsors her events. Use of this link as a ref is 100% spam written all over it
Also under publications you list Ousterhout, MD, DDS, Douglas K. (1995). "Feminization of the Transsexual". http://www.drbecky.com/dko.html. Retrieved Oct 23 2010. for Dr. Becky is 100% spam, it is the same information that Dr. Ousterhouts office uses for their brochure. So pretty much you are using wikipedia to spam Dr. Ousterhouts office brochure.
Then you list the site again under Ref. 4. ^ Allison, MD, Becky. "Make Me Pretty". http://www.drbecky.com/pretty.html. Retrieved Oct 23 2010.
Lynne Conway is a person friend of Dr. Ousterhouts and if you want I could post some photos of this fact.
This page has been nothing more than a spamming point for the offices of this doctor who employs or sponsors former patients of his. First by Mira Coluccio who is the office manager now by you a former patient who seems to be vested with a comerical interest from the added and removed items.
Please stop using wikipedia as place spam this doctor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Janemillert ( talk • contribs) 11:49, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
This is also the third time I have added the advert and coi tags they have been removed by Msnicki twice now.
Also adding http://www.facialfeminizationsurgery.net/facialfeminizationsurgery.html since it is the only thing that adds something neuatal to this article.
--- WP:OUTING material deleted.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Janemillert ( talk • contribs) 12:57, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
I have removed the Trinity reference as I believe it falls into the category of potentially libelous material. It makes claims of possible malpractice that, if true, should be taken up in court, not fought out here on WP. Also, I disagree with simply repasting the conflict of interest, advertising and other tags. The puffery and peacock words are gone. I took them out myself. I have no connection with Ousterhout. I haven't even talked to him or anyone on his staff in perhaps 10 years. Finally, I disagree with removing the sentence describing what he does; the patient accounts make it clear both what he does and that he often does it in a single day of surgery. I do concede it's worth citing his book in support of the statement that he developed the procedures in the 1990s. Msnicki ( talk) 16:52, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
So if you are not a spammer only for this doctor you will not mind taking leaving this list in talk of every doctor in the world that provides this surgery. As you can see I very NPOV I have posted the list for doctors throught the world doing FFS [redacted — chaos5023 ( talk) 21:25, 25 October 2010 (UTC)] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trinity1rose ( talk • contribs) 20:30, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
What about this: As has been stated before 2. James, Andrea (Sep 15 2005). "My surgical journal". http://web.archive.org/web/20060505223455/www.tsroadmap.com/physical/face/ousterhout1.html. Retrieved Oct 23 2010. is by no means a NPOV link she sells a video selling video she made with the express concent of Dr. Ousterhouts office. She is sponered by Dr. Ousterhouts office. I am a publisher also and guess what there is a contract to do things like this for any admins taking a look at this please let me know if you would like the links to video in question. Making money from a person and selling videos about him is not a Npov referance to use and would fall into spam tag being placed on this article. Trinity1rose ( talk —Preceding undated comment added 21:39, 25 October 2010 (UTC).
Just wondering where wp link for rules for the ref and links?
Wondering which links are being used to establishing notability?
-- Trinity1rose ( talk) 22:10, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
I am wondering if Msnicki is posting a site on the article that is her own site with her full legal name personal info. Would that be condered spamming?? Then she hides the fact with WP:OUTING after people start posting that it is her site. I read WP:OUTING http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:OUTING#Posting_of_personal_information and it said Posting another person's personal information is harassment, unless that person voluntarily had posted his or her own information, or links to such information, on Wikipedia. She posts her own FFS story for every one to see with a link here on Wikipedia with all her personal infornation there then if some says it is spam for doing so she and provides the link she has it removed using the WP:OUTING Would that be condered hiding spam?? She has done this from a admin talk page.
I know if I was to post a link to mine own site I would be a called spammer? -- Trinity1rose ( talk) 22:31, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Someone has already posted db-spam tag, coi tag, advert tags on the article as shown in the history of and edits to the article http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Douglas_Ousterhout&oldid=392794022
But the problem is Msnicki has been undoing those edits all day or doing reverts to them all day. -- Trinity1rose ( talk) 22:47, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Chaos5023 I am asking questions thats all about how those this work and how does that work if you think targets at someone can we provide this whole article to a admin board for help and let a group of admins to decide the out come. I am sure there is a board like that one WP that is not related to computers or programing that look this all over. Or am I out of line to request information about a article related to admins that look over maters like this. -- Trinity1rose ( talk) 23:48, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Noting here for anyone curious about the abrupt termination of this discussion that Trinity1rose was blocked as a sockpuppet of Janemillert. — chaos5023 ( talk) 03:17, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
Brought the issue of all four testimonials to Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#SPS_testimonials_in_physician.27s_bio. Carolmooredc ( Talkie-Talkie) 15:48, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
I hadn't intended or anticipated that my citations of a few patient accounts to support the description of what Ousterhout does would to be so controversial. On reflection, I realize I could have been more helpful by offering a comment here to explain the selections I made. Belatedly, I would like to correct that.
I have attempted to make good choices but I am imperfect and accept suggestions for improvement. Msnicki ( talk) 20:53, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
I removed
and
as "not about him".
It was restored with the justification, "of course its about him, he invented the technique." The first sentence can perhaps be integrated into the rest or the article with some minor changes, which I will try. The second I still think belongs only on an article on the technique. DGG ( talk ) 17:57, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
Please stop adding additional links to drofacialsurgery.com. Am looking to see if there is some ref about facial masculinization surgery; if there is this should go in the body of the article; the lead just summarizes the body per WP:LEAD. This is classic spamming behavior. Jytdog ( talk) 02:14, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
Not spam. He's not even in practice anymore. The man is retired. This merely reports what he did. Please take five minutes and read the website. Here is the link. Is that the website of a clinical practice or not? Jytdog ( talk) 02:41, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
oh, whatever, i will stop contesting the link, especially now that the duplicate EL link has been removed.
Msniki - you keep writing thing like this edit note saying "Rm the official website. That's clearly not really his anymore now that he's sold the practice" and this edit note saying "Since no official website anymore, put an archive link into the lede".
I just want to point out that the vanity fair article, dated 2015, says "semiretired". I have fixed that. I don't know where you got the idea that he is fully retired or that he sold the practice... this is not sourced anywhere. Jytdog ( talk) 15:10, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Douglas Ousterhout article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article was nominated for deletion on 15 June 2016. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||
|
Per the tag statement - you may remove this tag if you "object to its deletion for any reason" - the lede clearly denotes the subject is well-known and pioneer in facial surgery. A quick search found three books [1] , A lecture he did for the American Society of Plastic Surgeons [2] and this bio info:
"I am, and have been, on the boards of many plastic surgical societies, including being President of the American Society of Maxillofacial Surgeons (1994-1995), and on the editorial board of four different plastic surgery journals. I am on the Advisory Committee for "Recommended Guidelines for Transgender Care", AEGIS.
I hold staff memberships at several hospitals, including Davies Medical Center, Saint Francis Memorial Hospital, California Pacific Medical Center, and the University of California, San Francisco, where I am a Clinical Professor of Plastic Surgery, participating especially with a panel of experts at the Center for Craniofacial Anomalies. I have operated in many countries outside the United States.
Throughout my career, I have presented dozens of major scientific papers, both nationally and internationally. I have published scores of scientific papers. My medical textbook, Aesthetic Contouring of the Craniofacial Skeleton, was published in 1991."
I see little to contradict this information and assert that a deletion before improving the article with regular editing is quite premature. Benjiboi 07:46, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Added advert and coi tags to article using Friendly. Reason behind this is edits have been made to this page by Mira Coluccio who is Douglas K. Ousterhout's office manager and business partner. Also involves talking about a former patient opening other legal issues which could be taken by the patient. Using Wikipedia to disclose patient information by a doctor or employee/business partner of that doctor could become a legal matter. Janemillert 06:36, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
I have placed the speedy deletion tag on this page for the following reason this page is being used to promote a comerical interest for this doctor by his through the direction of Mira Coluccio.
--- WP:OUTING material deleted. ---
So now that we have deterimed that you are spaming your own link under the direction of the offices of Dr. Ousterhout and your company through back linking.
Another fact that proves this very clearly is that you removed the link for Trinity Rose of http://www.facialfeminizationsurgery.net/facialfeminizationsurgery.html which makes this a neuatal article since it advises people of the negative aspects of having this surgery.
This is another attempt to use wikipedia as a advertiser for this doctor.
James, Andrea (Andrea James) A.K.A. joketress sells a video promoting Dr. Ousterhout this in many venues with the consent of Dr. Ousterhout as can be seen in the video all over the web. She also promotes his book. Dr. Ousterhout also sponsors her events. Use of this link as a ref is 100% spam written all over it
Also under publications you list Ousterhout, MD, DDS, Douglas K. (1995). "Feminization of the Transsexual". http://www.drbecky.com/dko.html. Retrieved Oct 23 2010. for Dr. Becky is 100% spam, it is the same information that Dr. Ousterhouts office uses for their brochure. So pretty much you are using wikipedia to spam Dr. Ousterhouts office brochure.
Then you list the site again under Ref. 4. ^ Allison, MD, Becky. "Make Me Pretty". http://www.drbecky.com/pretty.html. Retrieved Oct 23 2010.
Lynne Conway is a person friend of Dr. Ousterhouts and if you want I could post some photos of this fact.
This page has been nothing more than a spamming point for the offices of this doctor who employs or sponsors former patients of his. First by Mira Coluccio who is the office manager now by you a former patient who seems to be vested with a comerical interest from the added and removed items.
Please stop using wikipedia as place spam this doctor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Janemillert ( talk • contribs) 11:49, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
This is also the third time I have added the advert and coi tags they have been removed by Msnicki twice now.
Also adding http://www.facialfeminizationsurgery.net/facialfeminizationsurgery.html since it is the only thing that adds something neuatal to this article.
--- WP:OUTING material deleted.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Janemillert ( talk • contribs) 12:57, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
I have removed the Trinity reference as I believe it falls into the category of potentially libelous material. It makes claims of possible malpractice that, if true, should be taken up in court, not fought out here on WP. Also, I disagree with simply repasting the conflict of interest, advertising and other tags. The puffery and peacock words are gone. I took them out myself. I have no connection with Ousterhout. I haven't even talked to him or anyone on his staff in perhaps 10 years. Finally, I disagree with removing the sentence describing what he does; the patient accounts make it clear both what he does and that he often does it in a single day of surgery. I do concede it's worth citing his book in support of the statement that he developed the procedures in the 1990s. Msnicki ( talk) 16:52, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
So if you are not a spammer only for this doctor you will not mind taking leaving this list in talk of every doctor in the world that provides this surgery. As you can see I very NPOV I have posted the list for doctors throught the world doing FFS [redacted — chaos5023 ( talk) 21:25, 25 October 2010 (UTC)] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trinity1rose ( talk • contribs) 20:30, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
What about this: As has been stated before 2. James, Andrea (Sep 15 2005). "My surgical journal". http://web.archive.org/web/20060505223455/www.tsroadmap.com/physical/face/ousterhout1.html. Retrieved Oct 23 2010. is by no means a NPOV link she sells a video selling video she made with the express concent of Dr. Ousterhouts office. She is sponered by Dr. Ousterhouts office. I am a publisher also and guess what there is a contract to do things like this for any admins taking a look at this please let me know if you would like the links to video in question. Making money from a person and selling videos about him is not a Npov referance to use and would fall into spam tag being placed on this article. Trinity1rose ( talk —Preceding undated comment added 21:39, 25 October 2010 (UTC).
Just wondering where wp link for rules for the ref and links?
Wondering which links are being used to establishing notability?
-- Trinity1rose ( talk) 22:10, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
I am wondering if Msnicki is posting a site on the article that is her own site with her full legal name personal info. Would that be condered spamming?? Then she hides the fact with WP:OUTING after people start posting that it is her site. I read WP:OUTING http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:OUTING#Posting_of_personal_information and it said Posting another person's personal information is harassment, unless that person voluntarily had posted his or her own information, or links to such information, on Wikipedia. She posts her own FFS story for every one to see with a link here on Wikipedia with all her personal infornation there then if some says it is spam for doing so she and provides the link she has it removed using the WP:OUTING Would that be condered hiding spam?? She has done this from a admin talk page.
I know if I was to post a link to mine own site I would be a called spammer? -- Trinity1rose ( talk) 22:31, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Someone has already posted db-spam tag, coi tag, advert tags on the article as shown in the history of and edits to the article http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Douglas_Ousterhout&oldid=392794022
But the problem is Msnicki has been undoing those edits all day or doing reverts to them all day. -- Trinity1rose ( talk) 22:47, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Chaos5023 I am asking questions thats all about how those this work and how does that work if you think targets at someone can we provide this whole article to a admin board for help and let a group of admins to decide the out come. I am sure there is a board like that one WP that is not related to computers or programing that look this all over. Or am I out of line to request information about a article related to admins that look over maters like this. -- Trinity1rose ( talk) 23:48, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Noting here for anyone curious about the abrupt termination of this discussion that Trinity1rose was blocked as a sockpuppet of Janemillert. — chaos5023 ( talk) 03:17, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
Brought the issue of all four testimonials to Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#SPS_testimonials_in_physician.27s_bio. Carolmooredc ( Talkie-Talkie) 15:48, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
I hadn't intended or anticipated that my citations of a few patient accounts to support the description of what Ousterhout does would to be so controversial. On reflection, I realize I could have been more helpful by offering a comment here to explain the selections I made. Belatedly, I would like to correct that.
I have attempted to make good choices but I am imperfect and accept suggestions for improvement. Msnicki ( talk) 20:53, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
I removed
and
as "not about him".
It was restored with the justification, "of course its about him, he invented the technique." The first sentence can perhaps be integrated into the rest or the article with some minor changes, which I will try. The second I still think belongs only on an article on the technique. DGG ( talk ) 17:57, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
Please stop adding additional links to drofacialsurgery.com. Am looking to see if there is some ref about facial masculinization surgery; if there is this should go in the body of the article; the lead just summarizes the body per WP:LEAD. This is classic spamming behavior. Jytdog ( talk) 02:14, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
Not spam. He's not even in practice anymore. The man is retired. This merely reports what he did. Please take five minutes and read the website. Here is the link. Is that the website of a clinical practice or not? Jytdog ( talk) 02:41, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
oh, whatever, i will stop contesting the link, especially now that the duplicate EL link has been removed.
Msniki - you keep writing thing like this edit note saying "Rm the official website. That's clearly not really his anymore now that he's sold the practice" and this edit note saying "Since no official website anymore, put an archive link into the lede".
I just want to point out that the vanity fair article, dated 2015, says "semiretired". I have fixed that. I don't know where you got the idea that he is fully retired or that he sold the practice... this is not sourced anywhere. Jytdog ( talk) 15:10, 6 February 2018 (UTC)