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The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
@
Sdrqaz Don't think a move discussion was necessary, I'm gonna move the article there (as the AfC publisher) if no one makes an objection soon. See
Boston cream doughnut for an example of "doughnut" and
Oat for an example of the singular form. :3
F4U (
they/it) 11:47, 26 July 2023 (UTC)reply
I thought that it could prove controversial (there's a page-view online search results argument to be made for donut too), so I decided to open an RM instead of moving it myself.
Sdrqaz (
talk) 13:20, 26 July 2023 (UTC) – correction at 16:56, 26 July 2023 (UTC)reply
How the hell did we get to here I thought this would be uncontroversial 😭😭😭😭 :3
F4U (
they/it) 03:46, 27 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Support the move, the redirect will suffice for those who spell it "donut". (Found an interesting examination of the two spellings
here; not RS, just interesting.)
Schazjmd(talk) 15:20, 26 July 2023 (UTC)reply
I think that it's worth noting that some of the "donut hole" results on Google may be skewed by
Medicare Part D coverage gap – the Medicare "donut hole" features quite prominently when I search online with inverted commas, anyway. I'm not an expert with using N-grams, so is there a way of excluding those non-food results?
Sdrqaz (
talk) 16:56, 26 July 2023 (UTC)reply
I'm unsure about the applicability of retain here. What are we retaining? The "doughnut" spelling is recommended by multiple American style guides and has very close usage to "donut" per
ngrams. (
ngram 2) :3
F4U (
they/it) 16:52, 26 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Comment: There seems to be a bit of a false association here: while "donut" is a generally American spelling, that does not mean "doughnut" is not American. From what I've read, "doughnut" is a universal spelling – this isn't colour/color, where there is a clear divide between British and American spelling. From the
AP Stylebook, an American style book:
Others may call it a donut. But doughnut is proper style.As for VAR and RETAIN argumemts, this seems like a good fit for
WP:TITLEVAR: "a less common but non-nation-specific term is selected to avoid having to choose between national varieties". Best wishes,
Sdrqaz (
talk) 16:56, 26 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Comment on retain: If we are going to apply
WP:RETAIN here actually, the original article (before it was draftified and republished), was at
Doughnut holes - See here:
[1] :3
F4U (
they/it) 17:26, 26 July 2023 (UTC)reply
I have changed my vote to support in light of this information.
Rreagan007 (
talk) 02:08, 27 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Move to
donut hole per SINGULAR. This topic does not have strong national ties, and so the spelling should simply reflect the
WP:COMMONNAME among English speakers (and Wikipedia readers), which "donut" clearly satisfies. RETAIN doesn't apply, and should not be an anchor strung around the neck of good sense. --
Netoholic@ 03:45, 27 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose move to "doughnut hole" as "donut holes" are not actually a product, but a marketing term introduced by Dunkin' Donuts (who adamantly spell doughnuts "donuts"). So best to keep it in its original spelling. It's not merely national ties, it is company ties. PS Prior to the Dunkin' campaign, a "doughnut/donut hole" was actually a reference to the hole, not a pastry. And references to "buying doughnut holes" would be a common joke about being cheated or being on a diet.
Walrasiad (
talk) 10:20, 27 July 2023 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Feedback from New Page Review process
I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: Hey there! Hope you're having a great day. Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia with your article. I'm happy to inform you that your article has adhered to Wikipedia's policies, so I've marked it as reviewed. Have a fantastic day for you and your family!
The lump of dough that made up the type of donut called a donut hole was never the exact piece of dough that was “punched out" to make a ring-shaped donut. The name and the marketing implied that, but it was never the case.
2600:4040:5D30:4800:4C9E:756F:DA4:38D4 (
talk) 20:15, 23 October 2023 (UTC)reply
This article was reviewed by member(s) of WikiProject Articles for creation. The project works to allow users to contribute quality articles and media files to the encyclopedia and track their progress as they are developed. To participate, please visit the
project page for more information.Articles for creationWikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creationTemplate:WikiProject Articles for creationAfC articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Brands, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
brands on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BrandsWikipedia:WikiProject BrandsTemplate:WikiProject BrandsBrands articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Food and drink, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
food and
drink related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Food and drinkWikipedia:WikiProject Food and drinkTemplate:WikiProject Food and drinkFood and drink articles
Delete unrelated trivia sections found in articles. Please review
WP:Trivia and
WP:Handling trivia to learn how to do this.
Add the {{WikiProject Food and drink}} project banner to food and drink related articles and content to help bring them to the attention of members. For a complete list of banners for WikiProject Food and drink and its child projects,
select here.
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
@
Sdrqaz Don't think a move discussion was necessary, I'm gonna move the article there (as the AfC publisher) if no one makes an objection soon. See
Boston cream doughnut for an example of "doughnut" and
Oat for an example of the singular form. :3
F4U (
they/it) 11:47, 26 July 2023 (UTC)reply
I thought that it could prove controversial (there's a page-view online search results argument to be made for donut too), so I decided to open an RM instead of moving it myself.
Sdrqaz (
talk) 13:20, 26 July 2023 (UTC) – correction at 16:56, 26 July 2023 (UTC)reply
How the hell did we get to here I thought this would be uncontroversial 😭😭😭😭 :3
F4U (
they/it) 03:46, 27 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Support the move, the redirect will suffice for those who spell it "donut". (Found an interesting examination of the two spellings
here; not RS, just interesting.)
Schazjmd(talk) 15:20, 26 July 2023 (UTC)reply
I think that it's worth noting that some of the "donut hole" results on Google may be skewed by
Medicare Part D coverage gap – the Medicare "donut hole" features quite prominently when I search online with inverted commas, anyway. I'm not an expert with using N-grams, so is there a way of excluding those non-food results?
Sdrqaz (
talk) 16:56, 26 July 2023 (UTC)reply
I'm unsure about the applicability of retain here. What are we retaining? The "doughnut" spelling is recommended by multiple American style guides and has very close usage to "donut" per
ngrams. (
ngram 2) :3
F4U (
they/it) 16:52, 26 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Comment: There seems to be a bit of a false association here: while "donut" is a generally American spelling, that does not mean "doughnut" is not American. From what I've read, "doughnut" is a universal spelling – this isn't colour/color, where there is a clear divide between British and American spelling. From the
AP Stylebook, an American style book:
Others may call it a donut. But doughnut is proper style.As for VAR and RETAIN argumemts, this seems like a good fit for
WP:TITLEVAR: "a less common but non-nation-specific term is selected to avoid having to choose between national varieties". Best wishes,
Sdrqaz (
talk) 16:56, 26 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Comment on retain: If we are going to apply
WP:RETAIN here actually, the original article (before it was draftified and republished), was at
Doughnut holes - See here:
[1] :3
F4U (
they/it) 17:26, 26 July 2023 (UTC)reply
I have changed my vote to support in light of this information.
Rreagan007 (
talk) 02:08, 27 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Move to
donut hole per SINGULAR. This topic does not have strong national ties, and so the spelling should simply reflect the
WP:COMMONNAME among English speakers (and Wikipedia readers), which "donut" clearly satisfies. RETAIN doesn't apply, and should not be an anchor strung around the neck of good sense. --
Netoholic@ 03:45, 27 July 2023 (UTC)reply
Oppose move to "doughnut hole" as "donut holes" are not actually a product, but a marketing term introduced by Dunkin' Donuts (who adamantly spell doughnuts "donuts"). So best to keep it in its original spelling. It's not merely national ties, it is company ties. PS Prior to the Dunkin' campaign, a "doughnut/donut hole" was actually a reference to the hole, not a pastry. And references to "buying doughnut holes" would be a common joke about being cheated or being on a diet.
Walrasiad (
talk) 10:20, 27 July 2023 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Feedback from New Page Review process
I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: Hey there! Hope you're having a great day. Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia with your article. I'm happy to inform you that your article has adhered to Wikipedia's policies, so I've marked it as reviewed. Have a fantastic day for you and your family!
The lump of dough that made up the type of donut called a donut hole was never the exact piece of dough that was “punched out" to make a ring-shaped donut. The name and the marketing implied that, but it was never the case.
2600:4040:5D30:4800:4C9E:756F:DA4:38D4 (
talk) 20:15, 23 October 2023 (UTC)reply