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I lived in Tahiti for 25 years. As far as I know, Trader Vic never set foot in the place.
"Maitai" or "mai tai" means "good".
"Maitai roa" or "mai tai roa", which, according to the Trader Vic story, is what the first person to drink his concoction cried out, means "very good".
Trust me on this....
a Don the Beachcombers in WEST Lafayette, Louisiana?????? Even if it were just plain Lafayette, that would be remarkable enough.... Hayford Peirce ( talk) 21:54, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
Arnold Bittner, who married Beach's ex wife, was born in Indiana. Stephen Crane, probably the third most important person in tiki bar history, was also born in Indiana. An Indiana location seems plausible. This was likely not vandalism, just an error between LA and IN. However, it is also worth noting that Beach spent considerable time in New Orleans when he was younger.
A change has just been made to the openeing date, from 1934 to 1933. Prior to this change, the specified reference was the Wall Street Journal. After the change, that reference was removed, and a user forum was referenced. There are several problems with the new source: (1) It's a user forum, and as such is not a reliable source. (2) Even within the cited source, there are contradictions as to whether it is 1933 or 1934. (3) Forum messages refer to the Van Nuys [Valley] News, which certainly isn't as reliable as the WSJ -- and in any case two articles are cited, one which says reputedly says 1933 and one which says 1934. Of course, we don't even know if the Van Nuys News ever had such articles, since the forum is not a reliable source. -- Larry ( talk) 18:27, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
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Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 02:33, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
Note: This article was originally written under the title Don the Beachcomber, but the article is mostly about the person, not the restaurant. He sometimes called himself Don the Beachcomber but that was never his actual name. His name was Donn Beach (after he changed it legally from Ernest Gantt). So I have moved the article and talk page to the title Donn Beach. -- MelanieN ( talk) 19:24, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
A source says that there were 16 restaurants at its heighth. However, a counting of the actual locations listed on this page is much closer to 25. Either the source is incorrect, or more clarity is needed in the article for what "at its heighth" means, or some of the locations are in error.
The background on Beach's name is certainly vexing, with multiple sources with different information, even with varying chronological orders. We do know his tombstone is inscribed "Donn E R G Beach" ( https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/14470706). Most sources indicate his name was legally changed to Donn Beach. Others show variations, and it is difficult to tell how many variations were actual legal name changes or just reported as such when they were in fact nicknames, or if he had a succession of legal name changes. In Sippin' Safari (Jeff Berry, 10th Anniverstary edition, 2017, pg 49), Berry indicates the legal name change as to "Don E.R. Beachcomber, Donn Beach for short", which makes little sense. Researchers with access to the Social Security Death Index might be helpful in this area. In any event, the grave marker name, and (very loose) consensus of sources would seem to mean that "Donn Beach" is the best for now. As an aside, in footnotes on the same page of Sippin' Safari, Berry infers that the name change was a result of avoiding attention due to an early (illegal) speakeasy of Donn's known as "Ernie's Place" (as alleged by Art Snyder). Regarding the restaurant's name, there is a similar problem of what actual early and later names were for the restaurant, with some indicating it was first simply the "Don Beachcomber" restaurant. While some pictures of the sign show Don the Beachcomber (likely Hollywood), later photos in Hawaii show a "Don the Beachcomber's" (with an apostrophe) at the International Market Place. This may have been done because that is (1) what people began to call it, (2) to mimic Trader Vic's, or (3) because he had lost rights to the restaurant to his ex-wife. Nicholas Nastrusnic ( talk) 12:47, 13 March 2019 (UTC) Also, the additional birth name of "Beaumount" is of unknown origin until a birth certifcate can be located.
There are also many conflicting sources regarding his birthplace. Many for Texas and also New Orleans. There may be a need to be able to see/reference an actual birth certificate to ultimately get the correct information. Lesser attempts have thus far not provided true certainty. Nicholas Nastrusnic ( talk) 00:39, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
Would be great if anyone has an actual picture of Beach that qualifies as being uploadable to Commons for inclusion here.
Edgar Leeteg was painter (of sorts) who lived in Tahiti for many years and who probably invented the Exotic Painting on Black Velvet ( Velvet painting). I myself lived in Tahiti for a number of years and used to see a small sign on the side of the road not far from the Moorea airport. It said Beach, and I always vaguely wondered why a sign for a beach would be in English and not French. Little did I know that that was where Donn Beach had his houseboat. If I had known, I would instantly have gone to introduce myself. For many years in the late 50s and early 60s my family's favorite restaurant in the entire world was D. the Beach in Hollywood, where they would serve me a Navy Grog when I was 15 or so (and with my mother). Looking back on it 60 years later, it's STILL my favorite restaurant in all the world, and I'm the guy who originally scanned the restaurant cover and put it into this article.
I also, about 6 or 7 years ago, wrote a private-eye detective story set in Tahiti called "The Lethal Leeteg", after the name of a newly invented Tiki drink. In the story, my detective hero does a job (successfully) for Donn Beach, then living on his houseboat. Involving a stolen Leeteg that Donn had on his houseboat. It was published in Ellery Queen Mystery Magazine and a while later was nominated by a Private Eye group as the best short story of the year. It didn't win, of course, but I was flattered. http://crimespreemag.com/2014-shamus-award-winners/
Anyway, do you think a mention of this should creep into this article as a minor bit of info, or throw-away, or not? Hayford Peirce ( talk) 23:18, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
I guess "high" is subjective. I have never been, and it appears from what I have read that there was more than one treehouse so maybe there was higher ones over time. I sure would not want to fall out of this regardless: https://www.flickr.com/photos/11311958@N06/42508360134 Would be great if someone could find a free use image of the tree house to place into the International Market Place article, it is sorely needed. Cheers. Nicholas Nastrusnic ( talk) 01:02, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Donn Beach article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
It is requested that an image or photograph of Donn Beach be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
I lived in Tahiti for 25 years. As far as I know, Trader Vic never set foot in the place.
"Maitai" or "mai tai" means "good".
"Maitai roa" or "mai tai roa", which, according to the Trader Vic story, is what the first person to drink his concoction cried out, means "very good".
Trust me on this....
a Don the Beachcombers in WEST Lafayette, Louisiana?????? Even if it were just plain Lafayette, that would be remarkable enough.... Hayford Peirce ( talk) 21:54, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
Arnold Bittner, who married Beach's ex wife, was born in Indiana. Stephen Crane, probably the third most important person in tiki bar history, was also born in Indiana. An Indiana location seems plausible. This was likely not vandalism, just an error between LA and IN. However, it is also worth noting that Beach spent considerable time in New Orleans when he was younger.
A change has just been made to the openeing date, from 1934 to 1933. Prior to this change, the specified reference was the Wall Street Journal. After the change, that reference was removed, and a user forum was referenced. There are several problems with the new source: (1) It's a user forum, and as such is not a reliable source. (2) Even within the cited source, there are contradictions as to whether it is 1933 or 1934. (3) Forum messages refer to the Van Nuys [Valley] News, which certainly isn't as reliable as the WSJ -- and in any case two articles are cited, one which says reputedly says 1933 and one which says 1934. Of course, we don't even know if the Van Nuys News ever had such articles, since the forum is not a reliable source. -- Larry ( talk) 18:27, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Don the Beachcomber. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
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nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
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Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 02:33, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
Note: This article was originally written under the title Don the Beachcomber, but the article is mostly about the person, not the restaurant. He sometimes called himself Don the Beachcomber but that was never his actual name. His name was Donn Beach (after he changed it legally from Ernest Gantt). So I have moved the article and talk page to the title Donn Beach. -- MelanieN ( talk) 19:24, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
A source says that there were 16 restaurants at its heighth. However, a counting of the actual locations listed on this page is much closer to 25. Either the source is incorrect, or more clarity is needed in the article for what "at its heighth" means, or some of the locations are in error.
The background on Beach's name is certainly vexing, with multiple sources with different information, even with varying chronological orders. We do know his tombstone is inscribed "Donn E R G Beach" ( https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/14470706). Most sources indicate his name was legally changed to Donn Beach. Others show variations, and it is difficult to tell how many variations were actual legal name changes or just reported as such when they were in fact nicknames, or if he had a succession of legal name changes. In Sippin' Safari (Jeff Berry, 10th Anniverstary edition, 2017, pg 49), Berry indicates the legal name change as to "Don E.R. Beachcomber, Donn Beach for short", which makes little sense. Researchers with access to the Social Security Death Index might be helpful in this area. In any event, the grave marker name, and (very loose) consensus of sources would seem to mean that "Donn Beach" is the best for now. As an aside, in footnotes on the same page of Sippin' Safari, Berry infers that the name change was a result of avoiding attention due to an early (illegal) speakeasy of Donn's known as "Ernie's Place" (as alleged by Art Snyder). Regarding the restaurant's name, there is a similar problem of what actual early and later names were for the restaurant, with some indicating it was first simply the "Don Beachcomber" restaurant. While some pictures of the sign show Don the Beachcomber (likely Hollywood), later photos in Hawaii show a "Don the Beachcomber's" (with an apostrophe) at the International Market Place. This may have been done because that is (1) what people began to call it, (2) to mimic Trader Vic's, or (3) because he had lost rights to the restaurant to his ex-wife. Nicholas Nastrusnic ( talk) 12:47, 13 March 2019 (UTC) Also, the additional birth name of "Beaumount" is of unknown origin until a birth certifcate can be located.
There are also many conflicting sources regarding his birthplace. Many for Texas and also New Orleans. There may be a need to be able to see/reference an actual birth certificate to ultimately get the correct information. Lesser attempts have thus far not provided true certainty. Nicholas Nastrusnic ( talk) 00:39, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
Would be great if anyone has an actual picture of Beach that qualifies as being uploadable to Commons for inclusion here.
Edgar Leeteg was painter (of sorts) who lived in Tahiti for many years and who probably invented the Exotic Painting on Black Velvet ( Velvet painting). I myself lived in Tahiti for a number of years and used to see a small sign on the side of the road not far from the Moorea airport. It said Beach, and I always vaguely wondered why a sign for a beach would be in English and not French. Little did I know that that was where Donn Beach had his houseboat. If I had known, I would instantly have gone to introduce myself. For many years in the late 50s and early 60s my family's favorite restaurant in the entire world was D. the Beach in Hollywood, where they would serve me a Navy Grog when I was 15 or so (and with my mother). Looking back on it 60 years later, it's STILL my favorite restaurant in all the world, and I'm the guy who originally scanned the restaurant cover and put it into this article.
I also, about 6 or 7 years ago, wrote a private-eye detective story set in Tahiti called "The Lethal Leeteg", after the name of a newly invented Tiki drink. In the story, my detective hero does a job (successfully) for Donn Beach, then living on his houseboat. Involving a stolen Leeteg that Donn had on his houseboat. It was published in Ellery Queen Mystery Magazine and a while later was nominated by a Private Eye group as the best short story of the year. It didn't win, of course, but I was flattered. http://crimespreemag.com/2014-shamus-award-winners/
Anyway, do you think a mention of this should creep into this article as a minor bit of info, or throw-away, or not? Hayford Peirce ( talk) 23:18, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
I guess "high" is subjective. I have never been, and it appears from what I have read that there was more than one treehouse so maybe there was higher ones over time. I sure would not want to fall out of this regardless: https://www.flickr.com/photos/11311958@N06/42508360134 Would be great if someone could find a free use image of the tree house to place into the International Market Place article, it is sorely needed. Cheers. Nicholas Nastrusnic ( talk) 01:02, 23 March 2019 (UTC)