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The article is now very specific: it follows Millan as he rehabilitates guests’ “last chance” dogs. Millan emphasises that the Dog Whisperer program is not a guide to training dogs. He says "This is not a 'sit down, stay, come here, good boy' show" but is about modifying the behavior of dogs that might otherwise be put down or on medication." Clearly not all the dogs on the show are last chance or about to be put down. So what gives? 842U ( talk) 10:44, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
Here are some program descriptions from other sources, already cited in the article:
I think Millan repeats the point that this is a reality program that follows him as he rehabilitates dogs with serious problems, not a guide to training your dog at home, sufficiently often that we can safely include that information. We can't get more accurate information than Millan's own repeated opinion. Marj ( talk) 20:05, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
Either way, the program format does not limit itself to last chance dogs. The show follows Millan's work in the field of dog rehabilitation: on the program he works with all kinds of cases, e.g., dogs that can't walk across slippery floors, dogs with separation anxiety, etc. — he visits animal shelters, etc. No need to go to great length to suggest the show is only about last chance dogs, use quotes (out of context) to suggest that it's the case -- when it is not the case. Again, no worries. 842U ( talk) 20:26, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
Can we at least give each other the courtesy of a discussion before undoing others edits. There is nothing to say that your opinion on wording or organisation is 'right' and others are wrong. Marj ( talk) 02:35, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
BTW Dreadstar, a smartass comment attached to an "undo" does little to improve the editing process or the collaborative environment. Marj ( talk) 20:26, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
The lede needs to cover all of the sections in the article, in the order that they appear. (One reason to have sections and subsections rather than a list of short sections). If we can stabilize the organisation someone can tackle re-writing it. Marj ( talk) 20:43, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
I won't touch the organisation again, but if writing by myself I'd have
Happy for you to draft a new lead section Littleolive oil Marj ( talk) 19:53, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
Episodes were shot here (in Australia) in 2009 and will be again later this year. Some were also filmed in the UK, I remember the outcry in the British media at the time. Any in Canada or elsewhere? Can we have a paragraph on these? Marj ( talk) 21:37, 9 September 2011 (UTC) Done Marj ( talk) 19:09, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Doctors perform surgery, people perform tasks. "Perform" is not limited to the stage. Marj ( talk) 19:09, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Not sure about the show/hide box for these, good to know how to create one but is it better to just have the permanent table. What do you all think? Marj ( talk) 20:02, 8 September 2011 (UTC) No argument so I'll leave the show/hide box Marj ( talk) 19:10, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
However and although have different meanings.
The first suggests that Millan modifies dog behaviour in spite of it not being that sort of program. The second suggests that while Millan modifies dog behaviour, the program should not be interpreted as a dog training program. Marj ( talk) 19:22, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
It is no less 'vague' just a third alternative. Which I accept, and I hope Littleolive Oil does too. Marj ( talk) 20:37, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
What was in place seemed awkward. I looked at the several versions in the diffs and went with one that seemed clear. I didn't look at who wrote what necessarily, and I don't care whose words they are. My concern was clarity. I only revert once. I'll step out of this conversation and let you and whoever else is interested decide.( olive ( talk) 00:11, 14 September 2011 (UTC))
Wikipedia editors cannot make assumptions, but they can certainly report on assumptions made by researchers in peer-reviewed scientific papers. It is cited as a a conclusion reached by the researchers, not as an undisputed fact. Though any viewer of the program would make the same assumption. One owner specifically named the Dog Whisperer as the source. The study also discusses the alpha roll and the dominance down, but they are demonstrated by both the Monks of New Skete and Dog Whisperer. Marj ( talk) 06:39, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
You have referenced particular episodes as "evidence" of celebrity appearances. Do you want me to referenece the episodes where Millan uses these techniques? Marj ( talk) 06:39, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
As a courtesy, could you please give the terms in full instead of giving abbreviations that I have to look up? I see from your user page that most of your involvement in Wikipedia, Dreadstar, is reverting vandalism. Do you ever approach an edit believing that it was a good faith attempt to add useful information? Marj ( talk) 19:49, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
<start copy>
An editor has deleted the information that I added from these sources, saying they are all "self published".
<end copy>
The Dog Whisperer program has been the focus of a number of research papers from a variety of discipline perspectives including family therapy and ethology.
A research paper that examines the role of family pets in family processes and relationships, says that in Dog Whisperer Cesar Millan goes to the family home and works much like a structural family therapist, helping to build an effective family structure and establish hierarchies and boundaries. [1]
In an observational study of the philosophies, methods, and skill sets used by dog trainers, one researcher concluded that there were two very different methods that dominated current dog training: a modern version of dominance/obedience training demonstrated on Dog Whisperer and a method based on reward and behavioral modification demonstrated on It's Me or the Dog. The author concluded that the fact that both methods continue to dominate the training world suggests that people still have ambiguous relationships with their companion animals. [2]
A study of the narrative structure of Dog Whisperer published in a leading critical animal studies journal placed it within a tradition of representing the relationship between humans and nature as one of domination, where non-human animals are presented as commodities that serve the human animal’s wishes. [3]
In a research project designed to assess the safety risks of techniques used by owners of dogs with behavior problems, owners reported hearing about the techniques of giving a "schhhtt" sound correction and "abruptly jabbing the dog in the neck", on television. They were not asked for the names of television sources, but one respondent specified that they were referring to the program Dog Whisperer. Both techniques were concluded to be potentially provocative and therefore capable of triggering defensive aggression. [4]
{{
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Sources:
Source 4.
Source 1.
"Pet trainers, coaches, and therapists, called in to resolve serious pet behavior problems, commonly find it is not the animal but the family that has the problem. On the popular televised series The Dog Whisperer, trainer Cesar Milan (2006) goes to the family home and works much like a structural family therapist (Minuchin, 1974). First he observes family-pet interactions and enactment of the problem behavior. With hyperactive and out-of-control pets, he notes that the family has let the dog control them and works with them to build family structure, boundaries, and hierarchy, with the parents authoritatively in charge as the ‘‘family pack leaders.’’" Marj ( talk) 22:21, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
Source 1: cites an article for the quote, but also a research paper which does not mention Dog Whisperer. So I don't see how this fits under a section on research papers. Perhaps a summary of the quoted comment could go somewhere else. (Apologies Dreadstar thought I'd finish up this 1st, 2nd, 3rd source.)( olive ( talk) 10:43, 19 September 2011 (UTC))
Source 2: I can't access Original excerpts:
Thanks very much for adding this quoted content.( olive ( talk) 02:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC))
Source 3: looks good, but not a research paper per se.... but a study, so maybe the first sentence of that Commentary section could be changed slightly to accommodate the different kinds of content.
I'm definitely fine with 1 and 3 being in the article...as long as we remove the research paper on Source 1, that doesn't mention DW. if there's something I'm missing on the use of that paper let me know. Any chance of qouting the part in 2 that refers to DW.( olive ( talk) 11:30, 19 September 2011 (UTC))
Isolated studies are usually considered tentative and may change in the light of further academic research. The reliability of a single study depends on the field. Studies relating to complex and abstruse fields, such as medicine, are less definitive. Avoid undue weight when using single studies in such fields. Meta-analyses, textbooks, and scholarly review articles are preferred when available, so as to provide proper context.
( olive ( talk) 18:23, 19 September 2011 (UTC))
I don't think the entirity of the above content or source information needs much more than a sentence or two, much less an entire section. Let's work on adding something appropriate. And no, sources that 'guess' at what the respondents are talking about aren't reliable sources. Dreadstar ☥ 22:15, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Why is this in the article. It seems grossly out of place. And why is the section called "Celebrity appearances and comments." It doesn't mention an appearance, just a comment. 842U ( talk) 02:23, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
Well you seem to have a lot more experience with dispute resolution than I have, but looking at what is on the board, once a question is definitively answered there is no further discussion. How about you list your evidence that these are self-published. What are these concerns? You haven't given any reason for repeated deletions. And you are speaking for Dreadstar again! Marj ( talk) 00:25, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
The questions have not been definitively answered. I didn't say these are self published. I said to repeat that I'd like to look at the sources which takes time and care. I'm not speaking for Dreadstar. I addressed some issues you seemed to have overlooked. And your tone and comments border on incivility.( olive ( talk) 00:35, 19 September 2011 (UTC))
I have explained that they do specifically mention Dog Whisperer. Are you calling me a liar? Marj ( talk) 00:25, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
To use "reputation for working with large breeds and at risk dogs" in the lead section, it should be in the body of the article, and referenced. Marj ( talk) 03:27, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
842U, I think you have misunderstood the guidelines on the lead section, referred to by Dreadstar above. It's not that the material should not be in the lead, but that it needs to be in the body before it can be in the lead. I think the article needs some information on who Millan is, up front. Marj ( talk) 19:45, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
"Established a reputation for working with aggressive breeds" is a mis-reprentation of the source's "interest is in rehabilitating aggressive dogs". Having an interest in something is not the same as having a reputation for doing it. In any case The Immigration Professor's Blog, unreferenced, is not an authoritative source of information. Marj ( talk) 19:50, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
It is not appropriate to cherry-pick bits of information from a source, such as "most animal professionals are quick to say much of what Millan imparts is solid". If you quote the small amount of positive comment, you should quote some of the extensive criticism. Marj ( talk) 19:57, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
Why is this whole paragraph in italics? Marj ( talk) 19:58, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
You also misrepresent the other reference in this section. The source says "Mr. Millan, 36, started by working in the early 1990's in a San Diego dog-grooming studio, where he gained a reputation for working well with the hard-to-handle cases." It is inappropriate to cite this as "...Millan is a self-taught dog trainer who established a reputation for working with .... hard to handle cases." If you want to use this reference, say "...Millan is a self-taught dog trainer who established a reputation for working with .... hard to handle cases, in the San Diego dog-groomers where he worked." His reputation was limited to the particular San Diego dog groomers. Marj ( talk) 00:38, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
"It currently airs exclusively on the Nat Geo WILD in the United States." It actually airs on a number of channels around the world - do you mean "In the United States it currently airs exclusively on the Nat Geo WILD channel. Marj ( talk) 06:56, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
Words that become dated, like "currently", should be avoided. "In the United States in 2011 it aired exclusively on the Nat Geo WILD channel." Marj ( talk) 20:58, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
I believe that since this is a TV show that started in the United States, American English is appropriate. As I have time, I will convert it. DBlomgren ( talk) 21:39, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
There has been little new material published on the program for a while but this piece has recently appeared, (April 21 2012) written by an eminent animal behaviorist, and published in a reputable journal. I'd be interested in other's opinions on whether to include this in the article. Marc Bekoff is noteworthy - his opinions are worthy of discussion even if the final agreement is to not include them in the article.
Did Cesar Millan Have To Hang the Husky? Stringing up a dog by a noose to discipline them is animal abuse by Marc Bekoff Ph.D.in Animal Emotions, Professor Emeritus of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology at the University of Colorado, Boulder. Psychology Today April 21, 2012 http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animal-emotions/201204/did-cesar-millan-have-hang-the-husky
Marj ( talk) 01:29, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
More recently published material for consideration and discussion:
The Science of Cesar Millan's Dog Training: Good Timing and Hard Kicks in the Stomach by Anna Jane Grossman, writer and dog trainer, Huffington Post April 9, 2012 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anna-jane-grossman/the-dog-whisperer-technique_b_1406337.html
Marj ( talk) 22:26, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
From WP:BLP (bold mine) :
This policy applies to any living person mentioned in a BLP, whether or not that person is the subject of the article, and to material about living persons in other articles and on other pages, including talk pages
Even the title of the proposed addition is an inflammatory attack piece, and it seems to be extraordinarly biased in content. I don't think the source or the content are suitable for inclusion per WP:BLP and WP:NPOV, we'd also be straying into WP:UNDUE territory. (no pun intended!) Dreadstar ☥ 21:05, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
Hat off-topic discussion. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
BTW it takes two to edit-war. Dreadstar's habit of deleting everything I post without discussion is not the best way of collaborating or reaching consensus. Marj ( talk) 04:21, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
|
dear Cesar, HELP!!! My daughter just separated from her husband which is difficult enough--they have moved in with us. She has 3 teenage childre and one 11 yr old female golden retreiver who is the daughter of our oldest golden sophie--she is 13. Ou problem is our 4 yr old golden Chloe who is very strong willed in fact since we got her when she was 4 months old we have watch your show every nite--just trying to survive her antics. She has come a long way thanks to your shows and books--but she has attacked Bailey 3 times in two days. She goes to the red zone it seems for no reason. We now have to crate her and keep Bailey upstairs--I have 19 grandchildren and with the holidays coming up I am desparate!!!! I can't take a chase that one of the little ones may get in the middle of this. Chloe did do this recently when my other daughter watched them at her house where there were 3 goldens. I can't take a chance we live in a small lake community where everyone walks their dogs. Actually we walk her every morning and thanks to you she does well. Please I don't know what to do!!! Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.119.197.37 ( talk) 16:27, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
"...Millan offers suggestions on how the owners can become their pet's "pack leader," consistent with the theory that dogs are pack animals."
The theory? Uh... pretty certain it's a fact that dogs and other canines are pack animals. Like, kind of the definition of a pack animal. Kind of thinking this should be rewritten. Anyone else? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.115.177.76 ( talk) 02:12, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
I own 3 Labradoodles. @ are female and the youngest is male (*mo.). Recently the 2 females have started growling at each other and last night it erupted into a fight. I don't know what has brought about this change since both have been family members for over 2 years. Can you offer any advise or suggestions? Sincerely, AMHille — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:BDCF:9FE0:E4BA:74D6:7D8D:55F3 ( talk) 17:38, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
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Hi my name is John Kelly we have two dogs both dogs are of a cross bread Paddy is crossed with a Staff and Lab Danny is a cross with a collie and an Alsatian its Paddy were more concerned about as he won't let people in the house or anywhere on the property we have relatives who won't come and visit because of his bad behaviour wanting to go for them but he is so loyal to my wife and I we have tried dog trainers before but after a couple of sessions they just say we're wasting our money i will not give up on him we need someone who can give us some positive feedback can you please help us — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.192.48.17 ( talk) 19:35, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
Article says that Cesar is part of a group; and that the group supports the use of devices which causes pain to punish and correct dog behaviour. But as I recall, it seemed as though Cesar believed these types of devices were not necessary? The article needs to cite sources; particularly this one.
I have 3 pits and a min pin and a pug.one of my pitties is mot very nice to the orher pits i need help Frankirizarry06 ( talk) 00:15, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
What to do if your dog doesn't stop barking if you go out Veronica1425 ( talk) 17:07, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
The show is referenced in Season 10, Episode 7 of South Park, where the host of the show, Cesar Millan, use dog training methods to discipline Eric Cartman in the show. Should I add a mention of it in? Brachy08 (Talk) (Contribs) 10:11, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
Need help with my dog taking me for a walk instead of me thanking her! She is an 8 year old rescue! I’ve had her 4 weeks and I’m sure she has never walked on a leash before I got her! Could really use some help I’m 70 who recently fell and fractured 2 toes I’m in a boot and with her pulling I’m afraid of falling again she is a terrier 12lbs and very strong ! Can use some advice please! Thank U 2601:986:8080:9B0:BD14:7C2D:587A:D666 ( talk) 16:17, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
The article is now very specific: it follows Millan as he rehabilitates guests’ “last chance” dogs. Millan emphasises that the Dog Whisperer program is not a guide to training dogs. He says "This is not a 'sit down, stay, come here, good boy' show" but is about modifying the behavior of dogs that might otherwise be put down or on medication." Clearly not all the dogs on the show are last chance or about to be put down. So what gives? 842U ( talk) 10:44, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
Here are some program descriptions from other sources, already cited in the article:
I think Millan repeats the point that this is a reality program that follows him as he rehabilitates dogs with serious problems, not a guide to training your dog at home, sufficiently often that we can safely include that information. We can't get more accurate information than Millan's own repeated opinion. Marj ( talk) 20:05, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
Either way, the program format does not limit itself to last chance dogs. The show follows Millan's work in the field of dog rehabilitation: on the program he works with all kinds of cases, e.g., dogs that can't walk across slippery floors, dogs with separation anxiety, etc. — he visits animal shelters, etc. No need to go to great length to suggest the show is only about last chance dogs, use quotes (out of context) to suggest that it's the case -- when it is not the case. Again, no worries. 842U ( talk) 20:26, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
Can we at least give each other the courtesy of a discussion before undoing others edits. There is nothing to say that your opinion on wording or organisation is 'right' and others are wrong. Marj ( talk) 02:35, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
BTW Dreadstar, a smartass comment attached to an "undo" does little to improve the editing process or the collaborative environment. Marj ( talk) 20:26, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
The lede needs to cover all of the sections in the article, in the order that they appear. (One reason to have sections and subsections rather than a list of short sections). If we can stabilize the organisation someone can tackle re-writing it. Marj ( talk) 20:43, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
I won't touch the organisation again, but if writing by myself I'd have
Happy for you to draft a new lead section Littleolive oil Marj ( talk) 19:53, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
Episodes were shot here (in Australia) in 2009 and will be again later this year. Some were also filmed in the UK, I remember the outcry in the British media at the time. Any in Canada or elsewhere? Can we have a paragraph on these? Marj ( talk) 21:37, 9 September 2011 (UTC) Done Marj ( talk) 19:09, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Doctors perform surgery, people perform tasks. "Perform" is not limited to the stage. Marj ( talk) 19:09, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Not sure about the show/hide box for these, good to know how to create one but is it better to just have the permanent table. What do you all think? Marj ( talk) 20:02, 8 September 2011 (UTC) No argument so I'll leave the show/hide box Marj ( talk) 19:10, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
However and although have different meanings.
The first suggests that Millan modifies dog behaviour in spite of it not being that sort of program. The second suggests that while Millan modifies dog behaviour, the program should not be interpreted as a dog training program. Marj ( talk) 19:22, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
It is no less 'vague' just a third alternative. Which I accept, and I hope Littleolive Oil does too. Marj ( talk) 20:37, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
What was in place seemed awkward. I looked at the several versions in the diffs and went with one that seemed clear. I didn't look at who wrote what necessarily, and I don't care whose words they are. My concern was clarity. I only revert once. I'll step out of this conversation and let you and whoever else is interested decide.( olive ( talk) 00:11, 14 September 2011 (UTC))
Wikipedia editors cannot make assumptions, but they can certainly report on assumptions made by researchers in peer-reviewed scientific papers. It is cited as a a conclusion reached by the researchers, not as an undisputed fact. Though any viewer of the program would make the same assumption. One owner specifically named the Dog Whisperer as the source. The study also discusses the alpha roll and the dominance down, but they are demonstrated by both the Monks of New Skete and Dog Whisperer. Marj ( talk) 06:39, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
You have referenced particular episodes as "evidence" of celebrity appearances. Do you want me to referenece the episodes where Millan uses these techniques? Marj ( talk) 06:39, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
As a courtesy, could you please give the terms in full instead of giving abbreviations that I have to look up? I see from your user page that most of your involvement in Wikipedia, Dreadstar, is reverting vandalism. Do you ever approach an edit believing that it was a good faith attempt to add useful information? Marj ( talk) 19:49, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
<start copy>
An editor has deleted the information that I added from these sources, saying they are all "self published".
<end copy>
The Dog Whisperer program has been the focus of a number of research papers from a variety of discipline perspectives including family therapy and ethology.
A research paper that examines the role of family pets in family processes and relationships, says that in Dog Whisperer Cesar Millan goes to the family home and works much like a structural family therapist, helping to build an effective family structure and establish hierarchies and boundaries. [1]
In an observational study of the philosophies, methods, and skill sets used by dog trainers, one researcher concluded that there were two very different methods that dominated current dog training: a modern version of dominance/obedience training demonstrated on Dog Whisperer and a method based on reward and behavioral modification demonstrated on It's Me or the Dog. The author concluded that the fact that both methods continue to dominate the training world suggests that people still have ambiguous relationships with their companion animals. [2]
A study of the narrative structure of Dog Whisperer published in a leading critical animal studies journal placed it within a tradition of representing the relationship between humans and nature as one of domination, where non-human animals are presented as commodities that serve the human animal’s wishes. [3]
In a research project designed to assess the safety risks of techniques used by owners of dogs with behavior problems, owners reported hearing about the techniques of giving a "schhhtt" sound correction and "abruptly jabbing the dog in the neck", on television. They were not asked for the names of television sources, but one respondent specified that they were referring to the program Dog Whisperer. Both techniques were concluded to be potentially provocative and therefore capable of triggering defensive aggression. [4]
{{
cite journal}}
: Unknown parameter |coauthors=
ignored (|author=
suggested) (
help)
Sources:
Source 4.
Source 1.
"Pet trainers, coaches, and therapists, called in to resolve serious pet behavior problems, commonly find it is not the animal but the family that has the problem. On the popular televised series The Dog Whisperer, trainer Cesar Milan (2006) goes to the family home and works much like a structural family therapist (Minuchin, 1974). First he observes family-pet interactions and enactment of the problem behavior. With hyperactive and out-of-control pets, he notes that the family has let the dog control them and works with them to build family structure, boundaries, and hierarchy, with the parents authoritatively in charge as the ‘‘family pack leaders.’’" Marj ( talk) 22:21, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
Source 1: cites an article for the quote, but also a research paper which does not mention Dog Whisperer. So I don't see how this fits under a section on research papers. Perhaps a summary of the quoted comment could go somewhere else. (Apologies Dreadstar thought I'd finish up this 1st, 2nd, 3rd source.)( olive ( talk) 10:43, 19 September 2011 (UTC))
Source 2: I can't access Original excerpts:
Thanks very much for adding this quoted content.( olive ( talk) 02:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC))
Source 3: looks good, but not a research paper per se.... but a study, so maybe the first sentence of that Commentary section could be changed slightly to accommodate the different kinds of content.
I'm definitely fine with 1 and 3 being in the article...as long as we remove the research paper on Source 1, that doesn't mention DW. if there's something I'm missing on the use of that paper let me know. Any chance of qouting the part in 2 that refers to DW.( olive ( talk) 11:30, 19 September 2011 (UTC))
Isolated studies are usually considered tentative and may change in the light of further academic research. The reliability of a single study depends on the field. Studies relating to complex and abstruse fields, such as medicine, are less definitive. Avoid undue weight when using single studies in such fields. Meta-analyses, textbooks, and scholarly review articles are preferred when available, so as to provide proper context.
( olive ( talk) 18:23, 19 September 2011 (UTC))
I don't think the entirity of the above content or source information needs much more than a sentence or two, much less an entire section. Let's work on adding something appropriate. And no, sources that 'guess' at what the respondents are talking about aren't reliable sources. Dreadstar ☥ 22:15, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Why is this in the article. It seems grossly out of place. And why is the section called "Celebrity appearances and comments." It doesn't mention an appearance, just a comment. 842U ( talk) 02:23, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
Well you seem to have a lot more experience with dispute resolution than I have, but looking at what is on the board, once a question is definitively answered there is no further discussion. How about you list your evidence that these are self-published. What are these concerns? You haven't given any reason for repeated deletions. And you are speaking for Dreadstar again! Marj ( talk) 00:25, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
The questions have not been definitively answered. I didn't say these are self published. I said to repeat that I'd like to look at the sources which takes time and care. I'm not speaking for Dreadstar. I addressed some issues you seemed to have overlooked. And your tone and comments border on incivility.( olive ( talk) 00:35, 19 September 2011 (UTC))
I have explained that they do specifically mention Dog Whisperer. Are you calling me a liar? Marj ( talk) 00:25, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
To use "reputation for working with large breeds and at risk dogs" in the lead section, it should be in the body of the article, and referenced. Marj ( talk) 03:27, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
842U, I think you have misunderstood the guidelines on the lead section, referred to by Dreadstar above. It's not that the material should not be in the lead, but that it needs to be in the body before it can be in the lead. I think the article needs some information on who Millan is, up front. Marj ( talk) 19:45, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
"Established a reputation for working with aggressive breeds" is a mis-reprentation of the source's "interest is in rehabilitating aggressive dogs". Having an interest in something is not the same as having a reputation for doing it. In any case The Immigration Professor's Blog, unreferenced, is not an authoritative source of information. Marj ( talk) 19:50, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
It is not appropriate to cherry-pick bits of information from a source, such as "most animal professionals are quick to say much of what Millan imparts is solid". If you quote the small amount of positive comment, you should quote some of the extensive criticism. Marj ( talk) 19:57, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
Why is this whole paragraph in italics? Marj ( talk) 19:58, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
You also misrepresent the other reference in this section. The source says "Mr. Millan, 36, started by working in the early 1990's in a San Diego dog-grooming studio, where he gained a reputation for working well with the hard-to-handle cases." It is inappropriate to cite this as "...Millan is a self-taught dog trainer who established a reputation for working with .... hard to handle cases." If you want to use this reference, say "...Millan is a self-taught dog trainer who established a reputation for working with .... hard to handle cases, in the San Diego dog-groomers where he worked." His reputation was limited to the particular San Diego dog groomers. Marj ( talk) 00:38, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
"It currently airs exclusively on the Nat Geo WILD in the United States." It actually airs on a number of channels around the world - do you mean "In the United States it currently airs exclusively on the Nat Geo WILD channel. Marj ( talk) 06:56, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
Words that become dated, like "currently", should be avoided. "In the United States in 2011 it aired exclusively on the Nat Geo WILD channel." Marj ( talk) 20:58, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
I believe that since this is a TV show that started in the United States, American English is appropriate. As I have time, I will convert it. DBlomgren ( talk) 21:39, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
There has been little new material published on the program for a while but this piece has recently appeared, (April 21 2012) written by an eminent animal behaviorist, and published in a reputable journal. I'd be interested in other's opinions on whether to include this in the article. Marc Bekoff is noteworthy - his opinions are worthy of discussion even if the final agreement is to not include them in the article.
Did Cesar Millan Have To Hang the Husky? Stringing up a dog by a noose to discipline them is animal abuse by Marc Bekoff Ph.D.in Animal Emotions, Professor Emeritus of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology at the University of Colorado, Boulder. Psychology Today April 21, 2012 http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animal-emotions/201204/did-cesar-millan-have-hang-the-husky
Marj ( talk) 01:29, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
More recently published material for consideration and discussion:
The Science of Cesar Millan's Dog Training: Good Timing and Hard Kicks in the Stomach by Anna Jane Grossman, writer and dog trainer, Huffington Post April 9, 2012 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anna-jane-grossman/the-dog-whisperer-technique_b_1406337.html
Marj ( talk) 22:26, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
From WP:BLP (bold mine) :
This policy applies to any living person mentioned in a BLP, whether or not that person is the subject of the article, and to material about living persons in other articles and on other pages, including talk pages
Even the title of the proposed addition is an inflammatory attack piece, and it seems to be extraordinarly biased in content. I don't think the source or the content are suitable for inclusion per WP:BLP and WP:NPOV, we'd also be straying into WP:UNDUE territory. (no pun intended!) Dreadstar ☥ 21:05, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
Hat off-topic discussion. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
BTW it takes two to edit-war. Dreadstar's habit of deleting everything I post without discussion is not the best way of collaborating or reaching consensus. Marj ( talk) 04:21, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
|
dear Cesar, HELP!!! My daughter just separated from her husband which is difficult enough--they have moved in with us. She has 3 teenage childre and one 11 yr old female golden retreiver who is the daughter of our oldest golden sophie--she is 13. Ou problem is our 4 yr old golden Chloe who is very strong willed in fact since we got her when she was 4 months old we have watch your show every nite--just trying to survive her antics. She has come a long way thanks to your shows and books--but she has attacked Bailey 3 times in two days. She goes to the red zone it seems for no reason. We now have to crate her and keep Bailey upstairs--I have 19 grandchildren and with the holidays coming up I am desparate!!!! I can't take a chase that one of the little ones may get in the middle of this. Chloe did do this recently when my other daughter watched them at her house where there were 3 goldens. I can't take a chance we live in a small lake community where everyone walks their dogs. Actually we walk her every morning and thanks to you she does well. Please I don't know what to do!!! Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.119.197.37 ( talk) 16:27, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
"...Millan offers suggestions on how the owners can become their pet's "pack leader," consistent with the theory that dogs are pack animals."
The theory? Uh... pretty certain it's a fact that dogs and other canines are pack animals. Like, kind of the definition of a pack animal. Kind of thinking this should be rewritten. Anyone else? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.115.177.76 ( talk) 02:12, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
I own 3 Labradoodles. @ are female and the youngest is male (*mo.). Recently the 2 females have started growling at each other and last night it erupted into a fight. I don't know what has brought about this change since both have been family members for over 2 years. Can you offer any advise or suggestions? Sincerely, AMHille — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:BDCF:9FE0:E4BA:74D6:7D8D:55F3 ( talk) 17:38, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
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Hi my name is John Kelly we have two dogs both dogs are of a cross bread Paddy is crossed with a Staff and Lab Danny is a cross with a collie and an Alsatian its Paddy were more concerned about as he won't let people in the house or anywhere on the property we have relatives who won't come and visit because of his bad behaviour wanting to go for them but he is so loyal to my wife and I we have tried dog trainers before but after a couple of sessions they just say we're wasting our money i will not give up on him we need someone who can give us some positive feedback can you please help us — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.192.48.17 ( talk) 19:35, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
Article says that Cesar is part of a group; and that the group supports the use of devices which causes pain to punish and correct dog behaviour. But as I recall, it seemed as though Cesar believed these types of devices were not necessary? The article needs to cite sources; particularly this one.
I have 3 pits and a min pin and a pug.one of my pitties is mot very nice to the orher pits i need help Frankirizarry06 ( talk) 00:15, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
What to do if your dog doesn't stop barking if you go out Veronica1425 ( talk) 17:07, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
The show is referenced in Season 10, Episode 7 of South Park, where the host of the show, Cesar Millan, use dog training methods to discipline Eric Cartman in the show. Should I add a mention of it in? Brachy08 (Talk) (Contribs) 10:11, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
Need help with my dog taking me for a walk instead of me thanking her! She is an 8 year old rescue! I’ve had her 4 weeks and I’m sure she has never walked on a leash before I got her! Could really use some help I’m 70 who recently fell and fractured 2 toes I’m in a boot and with her pulling I’m afraid of falling again she is a terrier 12lbs and very strong ! Can use some advice please! Thank U 2601:986:8080:9B0:BD14:7C2D:587A:D666 ( talk) 16:17, 18 December 2022 (UTC)