![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 |
On another note,does anyone have any good scientific studies supporting spaying female dogs prior to the first estrus cycle to prevent the mammary gland from being stimulating by hormones and therefore also prevent breast cancer. I have heard vets and read many things over the internet, but never have seen any definitive study. Can anyone help.
The term bitch is no more correct for a female canine (not canid) than the term female. The definition of bitch is "a female dog." Thus, Female is the superordinate term, and in the context of canines, bitch provides no further information. Under wikipedia guidelines, editors should refrain from making arbitrary edits. If there is no substantive justification for including "bitch" instead of "female", then female should not be edited. "Bitch" could be edited to "female" if there is sufficient reason for the change. I'll provide three reasons:
I propose creating a standard from consensus that will help resolve future edit wars about the proper usage of the term. To achieve this, I propose changing instances of bitch to female with a link to this debate; that will encourage people who are interested in the topic to come here and help form a consensus. Hopefully we can come to a consensus, and then use that standard for future edits of all dog pages.
-- Thesoxlost ( talk) 15:59, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
You're not late. As long as people throw in their opinions here over the next months or years, consensus will eventually be found.
The insistence that in order to be consistent, we would have to change all uses of dog to male really supports my point. On wikipedia, dog is not used in the technical sense that indicates gender. Dog is the common use English term used to specify members of the species canis lupus familiaris regardless of sex. Just look at the dog article. Where is the term dog being used in a gender specific fashion? I am arguing that common-use words be used except in cases where the technical usage of dog and bitch would be more appropriate (e.g., when discussing breeding or showing). Each of the terms you used above are in common usage. Can you really argue that bitch is in common use? What percentage of dog owners do you know that use the term (without implying the derogatory meaning) to refer to their own dog? Personally, I know no one who uses it. -- Thesoxlost ( talk) 23:19, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
For what it's worth, we know a couple things from social and cognitive psychology: (1) if a word has two alternative meanings, we process both meanings simultaneously; (2) if that meaning is associated with a trait (say a negative or hostile trait), it automatically colors our perception. See http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=search.displayRecord&uid=1983-07893-001
Its just one of many, but this study shows that subconscious priming of hostility causes subjects to rate behaviors and people as more hostile. In this context, the negative traits associated with the dominant (derogatory) use of the word "bitch" will bias our perception of female dogs. Similarly, the use of the word niggardly activates more meanings than "stingy" that one would be wise to avoid.
Also, those who complained about censorship, read WP:profanity.
-- Thesoxlost ( talk) 22:17, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
This article is pretty close to being ready for nomination for GA standing. There are few more issues that need to be addressed. Perhaps interested editors could post new issues or try to fix them. Here is an initial list, put together in a peer review by Dana Boomer, and greatly modified by thesoxlost:
Pending
Partially Addressed (possibly resolved)
Resolved
-- Thesoxlost ( talk) 22:37, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_Wolf
The Dog article says that the Domestic Dog is a subspecies of the Gray Wolf. That is to say, the Gray Wolf is a species with several subspecies, of which the Domestic Dog is but one. The Domestic Dog, then, is a subset of Gray Wolf. All Domestic Dogs are Gray Wolves, but not all Gray Wolves are Domestic Dogs. (Forgive my caps, which I have included for clarity.)
The Gray Wolf article states in one place that the Domestic Dog shares ancestry with the Gray Wolf. Elsewhere, it states that the Gray Wolf is an ancestor to the Domestic Dog.
The ideas presented in the two articles are not, under close analysis, compatible. If the set A is ancestral to the set B, then the set A cannot also include the set B.
I think we need to pick a winner on this one, and stick with it.
Ordinary Person ( talk) 05:17, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
The passage on neutering previously read:
It is not necessary for a female dog to either experience a heat cycle or have puppies before spaying, and likewise, a male dog does not need the experience of mating before castration. In fact, there is evidence that spaying females prior to their first heat cycle influents the animal development differently that after the animal reaches sexual maturity. Female cats and dogs may be more likely to develop certain reproduction organs deseases, mostly breeding-specific, such as Canine_venereal_sarcoma, Brucellosis etc, if they are not spayed before their first heat cycle. Also, fertile dogs have higher chances to develop some forms of cancer, affecting mammary glands, ovaries and other reproduction organs (author=Morrison, Wallace B.|title=Cancer in Dogs and Cats (1st ed.)|publisher=Williams and Wilkins|year=1998|isbn=0-683-06105-4). However, spaying or neutering very young animals, also known as early-age spay, can result in increased health concerns later on in life...
I deleted the part in bold, because it's confusing and I can't work out what side it's arguing ("In fact, there is evidence that spaying females prior to their first heat cycle influents the animal development differently that after the animal reaches sexual maturity"?). According to the RSPCA ( http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RSPCA/Page/RSPCAContentTemplate&cid=1152286830457&articleId=1152286835649) and other reliable sources, it is a myth that either a female or male dog will have health problems if neutered before mating. If the part I deleted is an example of a credible opposition argument, or otherwise, then by all means put it back, but please make it coherent. GM Pink Elephant ( talk) 21:32, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
Still, somewhat confusing and has a few same looking statements. We may a bit re-plan it by sorting early spay, health "pros", health "cons" and behavior changes per se, a subject per paragraph?-- Afru ( talk) 21:05, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
I seriously question this finding. The only place it has been reported is in a lecture at a conference, and the only record are the slides from that talk. There is no discussion of the evidence, no presentation of the results, no explanation of the methods, no operational definitions provided, no opportunity for peer reviewed, and no context provided (e.g., the author saying "these data are preliminary", or "For breed X only"). Furthermore, it hasn't appeared in a scientific journal since it was presented in 2006, which raises serious questions about its validity. This source does not strike me as WP:RS. -- Thesoxlost ( talk) 18:46, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
Reviewing article. This is a large and intense topic, so please have patience. - ΖαππερΝαππερ Babel Alexandria 19:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
I've requested CitationBot to look over the article and make edits. Skimming over this article, there are a few concerns that should be addressed.
- ΖαππερΝαππερ Babel Alexandria 20:59, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
1. Is it reasonably well written?
By Sketchmoose ( talk) 14:40, 23 March 2009 (UTC):
2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
3. Is it broad in its coverage?
4. Is it neutral?
5. Is it stable?
6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
7. Overall:
I just started with Coppingers book and there was something very strange when compared with this and the grey wolf article. In the greywolf article it was stated that: Unlike dogs and coyotes, gray wolves lack sweat glands on their paw pads. This trait is also present in Eastern Canadian Coyotes which have been shown to have recent wolf ancestry. Itw as similar in this article and the referenced source was Coppinger, Ray (2001). Dogs: a Startling New Understanding of Canine Origin, Behavior and Evolution. pp. p352. ISBN 0684855305.
Well I just started with the book and in the foreword it was stated that dogs and western coyotes just have a higher density of those sweat glands than wolves, not that wolves lack them. Saidly I can't just turn to the referenced page 352 because I have the german translation, so could someobody tell me in which chapter that page is so I can check whether the contradiction is based on the writer or on the book?-- Inugami-bargho ( talk) 07:07, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
I was asked to copyedit this article, and I am doing so, but I think some fundamental rewriting is in order. I have comments here, which i will be adding to as I go through the article.
1. What makes Miklosi such an expert that his book is used more than 20 times (with on page numbers) in the opening sections? As a note, it was more, but there are some paragraphs taken entirely from Miklosi, so I dropped the line-by-line cites in favor of a single paragraph end cite. For such a generic article, one source should not be relied upon so heavily for information in a given area.
2. I will leave it up to the regular editors, but I believe that the etymology section has no place in this article. This article is about the animal, not the word, and the etymology section really sidetracks the article. Since it's useful info in some sense, I haven't hacked it out, but I suggest that some discussion be had on this item amongst the regulars.
3. There's a lot of circular discussion in this article. Many items come up multiple times, but in different sections. Again, I would say that the regulars need to decide on one place to reference information, and leave it in that place within the article. For example, the divergence comes up at least three times, and is only discussed in-depth once. MSJapan ( talk) 01:53, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
4. I broke down the senses into subsections for ease of use.
5. I removed the numbers of olfactory cells in the section on smell. The numbers mean very little; a postage stamp vs. a handkerchief is dependent on the size of said objects. I think it's enough to say forty times larger and not belabor the point. MSJapan ( talk) 02:17, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
6. Dog health - I removed the portion on heat exhaustion, as it's the only example given. The opening statement as I have reworded it is enough to get the point across, and examples should only be given if multiple useful examples can be found. MSJapan ( talk) 02:25, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
7. I removed the sections on domestic dog nutrition requirements, and also on dangerous substances. Both of these are in violation of WP:NOT#HOWTO. MSJapan ( talk) 02:41, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
8. I've cut the section on comparison with wolves. As dogs are clearly stated to be descendants of wolves, it's pretty obvious they aren't the same, and I don't believe that the comparative section adds anything of use to this article. MSJapan ( talk) 03:24, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
Copyediting is complete. Template removed. MSJapan ( talk) 03:24, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for zapper for taking the time to review this behemoth of an article. I've typed up responses to his points below in part just for my own use in addressing the concerns. But in places I disagree and I explain why. I'll update this as I make improvements to address his concerns.
1)
2a.)
...classified as Canis lupus familiaris, a subspecies of the Gray Wolf Canis lupus, by the Smithsonian Institution and the American Society of Mammalogists."
"According to the Humane Society of the United States..."
Bob Barker and Drew Carey need to be sourced.
2b.)
"Recent studies proved that spayed and neutered dogs in general are more aggressive towards people and other dogs, as well as more fearful and sensitive to touch than dogs than had not been sterilized,[80] though individual effects may vary." so where is the sourced counter-argument?
"One such class of cognition that involves the understanding that others are conscious agents, often referred to as theory of mind, is an area where dogs excel." Also consider rewording this to make it easier to read, and put theory of mind in "quotes".
There are cite tags in "Disorders and diseases", "Reproduction"
3.)
Missing sections are noted above; additionally - Dogs as food, dogs in science
I'm able to hand over the rights of hundreds of my photos that you might include on the article with no charge. Please aware me whenever it would needed. I produce and collect my own material as a hobbie.-- 85.144.120.49 ( talk) 13:11, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
The link here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan should be changed to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_Hound on the main page, under the list of a few older breeds, toward the top.
(Sorry I don't have 10 edits yet, so can't edit semi-protected pages)
Inlinesk8er ( talk) 01:03, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
This article is very, pardon, dogmatic in its presentation of dogs as being 15,000 years old. The trouble is the previously accepted age is now debatable. Germonpré et al abstract have presented fairly convincing fossil anatomical evidence that dogs are actually at least +/-31,000 years old. Would the usual editors allow a change of the numbers? Trilobitealive ( talk) 02:53, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
somone who can edit the article needs to hide a note written about not having a reference. 125.239.48.128 ( talk) 04:06, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Reading this page I found the remark that dogs are not a real hazard to human health, while in fact they are especialy to children (it was pretty easy to find a reference for that). Also the estimate of reduction in brain size should be about 30% I believe. I checked to references, a Russian one that was hard to retrace and the used reference. The used reference gave a 20% reduction in brain size for equal skull size and a 20% reduction in skull size, amounting to 40%. Also from what I remembered from a documentary comment the figure should be around 30%.
All in all I think the article is a little skewed in favor of the dog, as it is written by dog lovers. I like dogs also, but living in a crowded city where dogs are still doing their thing on the sidewalk or at playing grounds it is hard not to see the negative aspects.
Viridiflavus ( talk) 13:57, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
There is no info about dogs as food. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.161.245.250 ( talk) 22:26, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
NO but thank you for seeing my point. I have terrible writing skills. I love dogs that is why I brought it up —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.161.245.250 ( talk) 03:47, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
There are many times of dogs including herding Breeds, Toy and Companion, Working dogs, and more. Working dogs can be anywere from German Sheperds to Labradors, Toy and Companion include dogs such as, Chiwauwaus and Jach Russels. In the category of Herding dogs are, dogs like the Border Collie and Australian Sheperds Kyle .L.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.157.73.3 ( talk) 19:22, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
but humans can hear even 20Hz.. dogs only above 40Hz...
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.139.9.247 ( talk) 20:54, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~mnkylab/doglab.html
-- Calypsoparakeet ( talk) 23:18, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
My Rottweiller speyed bitch smiles; has anyone else seen this in their dogs? Her 'smiling' has been witnessed by our family but also by many, many people who she has become to trust. Does anyone else see this in their dogs or is it just her? I think other dogs may 'smile' too, please let me know? A
dogs help humans Dogs have been with us all through and the history of the world. Cats have too, but dogs have shown have a more positive impact on our history. Dogs have been around helping us all through the years, helping us to evolve to become we are at today. “Evidently, the domestication of dogs and the civilization of man occurred at the same time.” (Reader's Digest Illustrated 16) “Dogs offer us emotional support, lift our spirits, and ease stress.” (Thomas 97) Thomas, Elizabeth Marshall. Guide to your Dog. New York: Wild Discovery, 1999. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.246.93.243 ( talk) 17:27, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
The article is entitled "dog", but the word dog can also mean any species in the Canidae family, including wolves, foxes, jackals and domestic Dogs. -- The High Fin Sperm Whale ( talk) 01:36, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Maybe a stupid question, but can dog breeds as disparate as, say, a Saint Bernard and a Jack Russell Terrier produce offspring? If they can't, does that not make them different species? Thanks 69.134.33.93 ( talk) 04:59, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Most people also find dogs urinating and defecating in a public place to be offensive To me this sentence seems unnecessary, out of place, and poorly cited. 67.233.209.55 ( talk) 07:27, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
It's just a general "thought" of the person who wrote it. There is even a "disclaimer" at the bottom of the article the footnote references to make sure a reader knows that it is "written for and by students without any claims of accuracy."
The use of this as a "footnote" boggles the mind.
It certainly does! Farts, what dogs do all the time. I have to evacute my house whenever my dog decides to let out some air. TERRIBLE!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.176.202.110 ( talk) 22:04, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one who noticed the absurd assertion in the article that dogs are omnivores.
The absurd thing is that Wikipedia normally observant and quick to catch nonsense like this, has completely missed how the concept of the "footnote" to "verify" a fact has been royally abused. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jolorious ( talk • contribs) 08:41, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
More published proof that dogs are carnivores, not omnivores:
Dogs desended from wolves. As dogs got demesticated thay have changed. Their teeth are for punturing but most people give dogs regular dog food. As you probably know dogs will usually eat anything, that doesn't make them carnivors. Canines don't hunt down meat and feed on it. The average dog owner feeds their canine dog food and what is in the food in vitemins and healthy minerals for the dog. Dogs love meat.
As you look into your dog's mouth, notice those huge impressive teeth (or tiny needle sharp teeth). These are designed for grabbing, ripping, tearing, shredding, and shearing meat (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pg 258.). They are not equipped with large flat molars for grinding up plant matter. Their molars are pointed and situated in a scissors bite (along with the rest of their teeth) that powerfully disposes of meat, bone, and hide. Carnivores are equipped with a peculiar set of teeth that includes the presence of carnassial teeth: the fourth upper premolar and first lower molar. Hence, dogs do not chew, they are designed to bite, rip, shred, scissor/crush and swallow.
However much, we humans have done to tinker with and change the dog's body design (resulting invarying sizes and conformations), we have done nothing to change the internal anatomy and physiology of our carnivorous canines. "Dogs have the internal anatomy and physiology of a carnivore" (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pg 260.). They have a highly elastic stomach designed to hold large quantities of meat, bone, organs, and hide. Their stomachs are simple, with an undeveloped caecum (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pg 260.). They have a relatively short foregut and a short, smooth, unsacculated colon. This means food passes through quickly. Vegetable and plant matter, however, needs time to sit and ferment. This equates to requiring longer, sacculated colons, larger and longer small intestines, and occasionally the presence of a caecum. Dogs have none of these, but have the shorter foregut and hindgut consistent with carnivorous animals. This explains why plant matter comes out the same way it came in; there was no time for it to be broken down and digested (among other things). Some educated People know this; this is why they tell you that vegetables and grains have to be pre-processed for your dog to get anything out of them. But even then, feeding vegetables and grains to a carnivorous animal is a highly questionable practice.
"Dogs do not normally produce the necessary enzymes in their saliva (amylase, for example) to start the breakdown process of carbohydrates and starches; amylase in saliva is something omnivorous and herbivorous animals possess, but not carnivorous animals. This places the burden entirely on the pancreas, forcing it to produce large amounts of amylase to deal with the starch, cellulose, and carbohydrates in plant matter. The carnivore's pancreas does not secrete cellulase to split the cellulose into glucose molecules, nor have dogs become efficient at digesting and assimilating and utilizing plant material as a source of high quality protein. Herbivores do those sorts of things" Canine and Feline Nutrition Case, Carey and Hirakawa Published by Mosby, 1995
Dogs are so much like wolves physiologically that they are frequently used in wolf studies as a physiological model for wolf body processes (Mech, L.D. 2003. Wolves: Behavior, Ecology, and Conservation). Additionally, dogs and wolves share 99.8% of their mitochondrial DNA ( Wayne, R.K. Molecular Evolution of the Dog Family). br>This next quote is from Robert K. Wayne, Ph.D., and his discussion on canine genetics (taken from www.fiu.edu/~milesk/Genetics.html). "The domestic dog is an extremely close relative of the gray wolf, differing from it by at most 0.2% of mDNA sequence..."
Dogs have recently been reclassified as Canis lupus familiaris by the Smithsonian Institute (Wayne, R.K. "What is a Wolfdog?"(www.fiu.edu/~milesk/Genetics.html), placing it in the same species as the gray wolf, Canis lupus. The dog is, by all scientific standards and by evolutionary history, a domesticated wolf (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pg 472.). Those who insist dogs did not descend from wolves must disprove the litany of scientific evidence that concludes wolves are the ancestors of dogs. And, as we have already established, the wolf is a carnivore. Since a dog's internal physiology does not differ from a wolf, dogs have the same physiological and nutritional needs as those carnivorous predators, which, remember, "need to ingest all the major parts of their herbivorous prey, except the plants in the digestive system" to "grow and maintain their own bodies" (Mech, L.D. 2003. Wolves: Behavior, Ecology, and Conservation.).
References: Prof. Dr. Sir John Whitman Ray B.A., ND., D.Sc., NMD., CT. MT.. CI, Cert. Pers., PhD., B.C Dip N, MD. (M.A.), Dr. Ac, FFIM., Dp. IM., F.WA I .M., RM., B.E.I.N.Z., S.N.T.R., N Z. Char. NMP, N P A Dr. Francis M. Pottenger Jr. MD Dr. Kouchakoff of Switzerland Dr. Weston A. Price Dr Tom Lonsdale Carissa Kuehn
Dr. Dr Jeanette Thomason http://www.thewholedog.org/artcarnivores.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.7.176.5 ( talk) 15:13, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
It´s classified like a carnivore but is a omnivore... ??? what kind of affirmation is that?
Although there are reported cases (...) of carnivores eating plants, the classification refers to the adaptations and main food source of the species in general so these exceptions do not make either individual animals nor the species as a whole omnivores.
‘Have you ever seen a dog attack a wheat field?’
Professor David Kronfeld
Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pág 258 —Preceding unsigned comment added by AbdónMorales ( talk • contribs) 16:00, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
—Preceding unsigned comment added by AbdónMorales ( talk • contribs) 01:04, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
The article mentions milk as a source of proteins for dogs. But my vet told me that dogs cannot digest milk (We use buffalo milk) and should be given meat or eggs (I have a lab female)?-- Nikhil Sanjay Bapat ( talk) 07:25, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
The "footnote" used to "backup" the notion that "dogs are Omnivores" is BOGUS! A quick check of the link tells you it is Non-Scientific information written by and for students. That's It. It is NOT a reflection of any sort of scientific thinking or research. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Mokonik (
talk •
contribs) 22:00, September 18, 2009
After checking the article on domestication I wondered whether it wouldn't be better to describe the domestic dog in the article as a "domestic subspecies" of the gray wolf instead of domesticated, or just as a subspecies. According to the article of domestication one characterisation is artificial selection by humans. And although this is true for the majority of the dogs who belong to breeds, this is certainly not true for feral dogs and many (if not the majority) of cross- and mixed breed dogs.-- Inugami-bargho ( talk) 07:42, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
The omnivores statement is why wiki is not accepted by any university, much less elementary school teachers. There are countless articles that classify dogs as carnivores. Anyone with a basic science background can look at the anatomy and tell where dogs fall in the classification. Domestication changes nothing. A horse is a horse if it's wild or tame. Wiki calls dogs carnivores under the carnivores section. Here they someone that chooses to feed their dog veggies thinks that changes their classification. Sorry, you just have a bias. Here's some links: http://aspenbloompetcare.com/2009/07/dogs-the-omnivore-carnivore-controversy.htm http://rawfed.com/myths/omnivores.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore
So, now we KNOW dogs are carnivores and all dietary decisions must conform to this if they are to result in proper, appropriate, nutrition. This is not something we can change to suit our own likes, needs and beliefs. In order to respect animals we need to honor their true nature rather than creating myths to allow for our convenience or even for our denial of living with carnivores in our homes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.26.44.111 ( talk • contribs)
Dogs are actually omnivores. Even though most of them probably do eat more meat than plants if they can help it and may prefer meat, they still do eat plants. Saying that they are carnivores is like saying that people are herbivores simply because most people eat more plants than meat. The truth is dogs do rely on plants for proper nutrition as well as on meat. I have dogs of my own and I know for a fact that they love several types of plants: they snatch carrots every chance they get, adore celery, and like to eat the wild grasses they find in their yard, to name a few. That is one reason why most, if not all, commercial dog foods include vegetables and at least one type of grain, but have more meat than other ingredients, as healthy wild dogs would eat a lot of meat as well. And about the milk: I think dogs are meant to generally be lactose intolerant, so it probably should be avoided unless your veterinarian says otherwise. Zonafur ( talk) 19:35, 9 June 2009 (UTC) Zonafur
^ You're 100% wrong in your assumption. Just because a dog is opportunistic, absolutely does NOT mean it has a nutritional need for plant matter. My dog eats cat poop. Does that mean she has a nutritional need for cat poop? Should you be feeding your dog cat poop?! Of course not. By your logic, my dog must be a catpoopivore!
When's the last time you ate something you don't have a nutritional need for? Yesterday, I ate a piece of cheesy garlic bread. It may have contained some iron and some calcium an a few other vitamins and minerals, but I'm sure I could've gotten those nutrients and calories by eating a much healthier option. On top of that, I have the ability to digest what I ate (well, for the most part) -- dogs do not have a the ability (they're lacking enzymes and a proper digestive tract) to digest whole veggies. If you feed a dog a whole carrot and he swallows it whole, it'll come out whole. And if you're feeding your dog pureed veggies for vitamins and minerals, well guess what, those same vitamins and minerals can be found in meat, bone, and organ which dogs can digest much more efficiently. So, WHY would you intentionally feed them veggies for nutritional reasons when you know 1. they're not going to get anything out of it and 2. there are much more species-appropriate options available?
And, of course most commercial dog foods contain veggies and grains (take note that higher "quality" kibbles do not contain grains) -- they're cheaper than meat, afterall, and *industry* is built on *profit margins*! The pet food industry exists to line the pockets of the people in the industry. Naive and ignorant consumers (and many veterinarians) have been completely brainwashed. One more thing, did you know that your veterinarian most likely receives incentives and kickbacks for pushing certain brands (think how many vet offices you've seen pushing Hill's. And then think about what a horrible quality "food" Hill's is proven to be).
Additionally, I find it very intriguing that this same debate doesn't exist for wolves. That fact in itself really speaks to the fact that dogs are carnivores. Do you realize wolves are also opportunistic feeders? Wolves eat berries and carrots, too! With wolves, like dogs, the fruits & veggies come out just as undigested as they went in. Why aren't wolves classified as omnivores? The diet of a wolf and a wild dog is *identical*. As is quite common, you are confusing preferred tastes/diets to anatomical definitions, which are generally an indication of best and healthiest diets (not preferred tastes).
Weewoah333 ( talk) 15:39, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure about even including that dogs are arguable carnivores in the article, since the two sources don't exactly seem to be arguing that: one seems to discuss the "inner lives" of dogs and the other classifies dogs in carnivora, which is not to say that they are obligate carnivores. Could we get more reliable sources on this? The only sources I have say they're omnivores while cats are obligate carnivores, and these sources are veterinary textbooks. Is there an equally reputable source arguing otherwise? Faunablues ( talk) 02:00, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Dogs may be meat-eaters, but the typical household pooch is better described as a scavenger than as a predator. But at that, dogs can range (like humans) from vegetarian (by human choice) to 100% carnivorous (traditional Inuit hunter and sled dogs), and still thrive. That suggests that the dog is an omnivore even if it is no less deadly a predator than a cat of like size.-- Pbrower2a ( talk) 16:43, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
St. Bernard dogs are not considered "herding dogs" and Labrador Retrievers are not considered "mastiffs". Please change these examples to breeds that make sense, or unlock the page to allow others to do so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.102.212.191 ( talk) 19:31, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
I've removed a recently added item on claims about health risks to humans caused by the carbon footprint of pet dogs. This was apparently based on a single book written by two architects, and as such was obvious undue weight. -- TS 03:54, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
Attention, I request fast consensus to keep the carbon footprint edits. PLease indicate your preference below. PLease stop editing this addition until consensus is achieved. Please lodge opinions above and clear votes below. Votes lodged in places other than the appropriate suppport/oppose/undecided columns will be ignored. Nothughthomas ( talk) 04:05, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
We don't do "votes" to determine consensus. In particular we don't ignore somebody's opinion simply because they do not wish to participate in a straw poll.
I have already expressed my opinions on this, Nothughthomas. Your arguments above about the Maldives seem to be somewhat shrill and are in danger of being mistaken for parody. -- TS 04:32, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to know what people's feeling is regarding having some mention of the carbon footprint thing somewhere in the article. Is the consensus generally against mentioning it at all, or is the issue specifically with that particular wording in that particular section? I would personally be in favour of including it somewhere, in some form, if an additional reliable source could be found. Thparkth ( talk) 05:24, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
The ecological impact of dogs merits discussion in the article. AS noted by User:Wtmitchell below, there is significant coverage to justify added it to the article. The ultimate goal is to have a comprehensive article on the domestic dog. As such, both negative and positive aspects of dogs need to be discussed. This article is unbalanced discusses the positive aspects more than the negative aspects. Discussing the ecological impact will help balance the article. I think that the an ecological impact subsection should be added to Biology section.
This edit reverted the addition of the following from the article, saying, "rv WP:UNDUE weight
In their 2009 book "Time to Eat the Dog, the Real Guide to Sustainable Living," New Zealand scientists Robert and Brenda Vale charged that a medium-size dog had a carbon footprint of 2.1 acres compared with slightly more than one acre for a standard sport utility vehicle. The claim spurred heated debate between climate change theory proponents and climate change theory skeptics about the efficacy of dogs as pets, with Lester Brown, the president of the Earth Policy Institute noting "there is no question but that pets do exert a claim on resources."
The removed material cited this ABC News article as a supporting source. That article highlights this claim, made in the book Brenda Vale; Robert James Dennis Vale (2009), Time to Eat the Dog?: The Real Guide to Sustainable Living, Thames & Hudson, ISBN 9780500287903.
This Reuters article quotes the book's authors as saying, "We're not actually saying it is time to eat the dog. We're just saying that we need to think about and know the (ecological) impact of some of the things we do and that we take for granted.", and goes on to say that constructing and driving the jeep for a year requires 0.41 hectares of land, while growing and manufacturing a dog's food takes about 0.84 ha -- or 1.1 ha in the case of a large dog such as a German shepherd.
This Vancouver Sun article identifies the Vales as specialists in sustainable living at Victoria University of Wellington. and reports that they urge per owners to to make sure their animal is dual purpose, "... Get a hen, which offsets its impact by laying edible eggs, or a rabbit, prepared to make the ultimate environmental sacrifice by ending up on the dinner table."
This article in the New Zealand Dominion Post further quotes the article as saying,
If you have a German shepherd or similar-sized dog, for example, its impact every year is exactly the same as driving a large car around, ... A lot of people worry about having SUVs but they don't worry about having Alsatians and what we are saying is, well, maybe you should be because the environmental impact ... is comparable.
This article in New Scientist speaks of the book, saying,
To measure the ecological paw, claw and fin-prints of the family pet, the Vales analysed the ingredients of common brands of pet food. They calculated, for example, that a medium-sized dog would consume 90 grams of meat and 156 grams of cereals daily in its recommended 300-gram portion of dried dog food. At its pre-dried weight, that equates to 450 grams of fresh meat and 260 grams of cereal. That means that over the course of a year, Fido wolfs down about 164 kilograms of meat and 95 kilograms of cereals.
It takes 43.3 square metres of land to generate 1 kilogram of chicken per year - far more for beef and lamb - and 13.4 square metres to generate a kilogram of cereals. So that gives him a footprint of 0.84 hectares. For a big dog such as a German shepherd, the figure is 1.1 hectares.
Meanwhile, an SUV - the Vales used a 4.6-litre Toyota Land Cruiser in their comparison - driven a modest 10,000 kilometres a year, uses 55.1 gigajoules, which includes the energy required both to fuel and to build it. One hectare of land can produce approximately 135 gigajoules of energy per year, so the Land Cruiser's eco-footprint is about 0.41 hectares - less than half that of a medium-sized dog.
This Yahoo News article says that New Scientist magazine asked John Barrett at the Stockholm Environment Institute in York, Britain, to calculate eco-pawprints based on his own data. The results were essentially the same, reporting that Barret said, "Owning a dog really is quite an extravagance, mainly because of the carbon footprint of meat".
This article in Idaho Falls Today asks rhetorically, "Should they be taxed for owing a dog? What about other wild animals? How should we measure their contribution to the carbon footprint? Should countries be given carbon credits for eliminating wild animals that put carbon into the environment?"
Another book, Bernan (2008),
"Draft Marine Bill: Oral and written evidence", Draft Marine Bill, Great Britain. Parliament. Joint Committee on the Draft Marine Bill, vol. Volume 2, The Stationery Office, p.
149],
ISBN
9780104013533 {{
citation}}
: |volume=
has extra text (
help), about a bill designed to establish a new UK-wide strategic system of marine planning, says that research shows that the biggest factor influencing where dog owners exercise their dogs is whether or not they can exercise the dog off a lead; if it is not possible to do this in their local area, over 40% have said they would drive elsewhere (that, of course, has implications re the carbon footprint of dogs). That second book, though not targeted at the topic, goes on to discuss health, social, and economic benefits of dog ownership.
WP:UNDUE says, "Neutrality requires that the article should fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by a reliable source, and should do so in proportion to the prominence of each." It looks to me as if this has sufficient visibility in reliable sources to warrant a mention in this article. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 06:39, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Although it is inhumane, the sport of dogfighting has greatly shaped and effected the domestication of dogs, lets not forget that many of the breeds we see today are in existance because of the unnatural selection people used to breed dogs. This is why we see pitbulls, boxers, bull dogs, rot wilers —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.234.98.61 ( talk) 17:16, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
Dendrotek 10:41, 7 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dendrotek ( talk • contribs)
Wait -- so just the one subspecies encapsules all the different shapes and sizes of dogs? That's freaking amazing. -- anon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.160.62.25 ( talk) 22:01, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Dogs have a genetic peculiarity that allows for a much wider variance in traits than other mammals. Thus dogs can be bred for a wider range of traits much quicker than for example horses or cows. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.195.223.201 ( talk) 07:13, 20 August 2009 (UTC) All this talk about carnivores... AHH! Calm down it's life ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.141.166.229 ( talk) 02:47, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
I propose a link to Hearing Dogs for Deaf People, which is already a good article. We should make this link within the section of this article named Working dogs.
I teach about the changing role of the dog in family life so am happy to draft something for these sections - "pets" or "companion animals"? Marj ( talk) 20:09, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
Those sections done. Edits or comments welcomed. Marj ( talk) 02:01, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
A query on the latest edit: The percentage of adopted dogs have increased since the mid 90s from around 25 percent up to 60 to 75 percent around 2004 in many shelters in the United States.[82] What does this mean? That 60-75 percent of dogs going into shelters were previously adopted? Or that 60-75 percent of dogs who go into shelters are subsequently adopted? Or something else? Does the many shelters phrase imply that this is not an overall figure for all shelters, but simply the experience of some? Barnabypage ( talk) 16:44, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
An article on dogs and shelters in Australia - may have useful info, if somone wants to follow it up http://www.animalsandsociety.org/assets/library/100_jaws070102.pdf Marj ( talk) 20:20, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
The line "despite evidence that a dog does not live in a pack relationship with humans" is misleading. The article that was referenced for this statement only theorizes that domesticated dogs do not behave like captive and non-captive wolves. The article provides no evidence that all domesticated dogs do not have pack relationships with humans. I suggest this blanket statement be removed or reworded so that it does not present facts without evidence. Alea098 ( talk) 19:46, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
{{editsemiprotected}} I think that it would be also interesting to mention to very large "livestock dogs" in "predation" part because opposite to what is mentioned in this part, there are also some breeds such as "Kangal dog" which guards the livestock against wolves and other wild animals. The Kangal dog is extensively used in Anatolia to protect the sheeps from wild animals and also they are successfully used against cheetahs in Africa.
Bellekci ( talk) 00:26, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
Not done
{{editsemiprotected}}
The scientific name of dog is CANIS CANIS and the scientific name of wolf is CANIS LUPUS. There is not such a thing as CANIS LUPUS FAMILIARIS.
69.168.144.133 ( talk) 02:05, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
Done
death
Hoser43 ( talk) 16:02, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
Not done
I propose that a new section in this article or a new article be created on laws that relate to dogs. The dog license article only deals with licensing laws in selected western countries. Dog laws also cover negligence, leash requirements, breeding, dog attacks, noise pollution, etc.
One website with extensive information on dog bites and applicable laws (in the USA, and also relevant to Common Law) is [14]. There should of course be a list of dog laws by country.
Also please note that the article on Dog attacks, which has a brief section on legal issues (US only) is not included in the main Dog template. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.47.238.225 ( talk) 07:48, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
Why did he decide to call it "Familiaris"? I assumed at first that he meant "familiar dog" as in "the dog that everyone already knows/thinks about first, but could it have been "family dog", as in the familiar English term "family dog" or "family dog" as in "the whole 'family' of breeds, or some such? Readers of this article want to know, and I would like something to call it in Engish to distinguish it from "Canis lupus Dingo". Chrisrus ( talk) 13:31, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
Adjective familiāris: 1.of or pertaining to servants 2.of or pertaining to a household or family 3.familiar, intimate, friendly 4.of or belonging to one's own self, country, etc. 5.customary, habitual 6.fitting, appropriate. Marj ( talk) 01:07, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
I don't think there is any record of the particular meaning Linnaeus was intending. Familiaris appears regularly in species names Certhia familiaris Common Treecreeper. Marj ( talk) 19:51, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
Recently, this article seemed to be just about one subspecies, Canis lupus familaris. Now, it seems to be moving in the direction of being about both C.l.familaris and Canis lupus dingo, a subspecies union (clade) marked by Mammal Species of the World as "Domestic Dog". I do not object to this, but at some point the taxobox and lead sentence should be changed to reflect this fact. Chrisrus ( talk) 13:59, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
Casino Gold ( English: Dingo) Wolf species one. Found only at Australia only A a science thatCanis lupus dingoGold Casino is the only wolf, only it looks like Dog House most Therefore assumed that the ancestors of Gold Casino. Descendants of the dog house East Asia (including Thailand a) by one in Australia about 3000-4000 years ago when Gold Casino classified as animals belong to only one in the Family Dog. (Canidae) found in Australia.
These additions are removed to the Discussion page, pending a decision on where to best place them in the article.
Further discussion welcomed. Marj ( talk) 23:06, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Removing these edits pending discussion, rather than deleting them, is a courtesy to the editor, and a separate issue from the relationships between the Australian dingo, the wild dogs in Thailand, New Guinea and America that are being grouped with the Australian dingo, and the pet dog. Marj ( talk) 02:16, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
I think this sentence needs to be changed, at least to exclude the part about wolf dominance hierarchies:
"Feral dogs show little of the complex social structure or dominance hierarchy present in wolf packs"
Leading wolf researcher David Mech has spent a good deal of time recanting the whole "alpha wolf" meme that he accidentally started, based on observation of artificially-created wolf packs in captive pens.
Here's what he now says: Rather than viewing a wolf pack as a group of animals organized with a “top dog” that fought its way to the top, or a male-female pair of such aggressive wolves, science has come to understand that most wolf packs are merely family groups formed exactly the same way as human families are formed. That is, maturing male and female wolves from different packs disperse, travel around until they find each other and an area vacant of other wolves but with adequate prey, court, mate, and produce their own litter of pups.
More information here: [16]
I'd like to point out that, contrary to popular belief, the term, "Three Dog Night" did not originate with the Australian Aborigines, as stated in the article. It, in fact, was coined by the Inuit, who needed three dogs to stay warm in their harsh environment. Dingos, the Aborigine dog cited, are too wild and aggressive to be used as living blankets, and are known for attacking owners, people, and babies. Huskies, however, are not (though they have been known to attack running babies).
To put it shortly, the term, "Three Dog Night" did NOT originate with the Aborigines as stated in the article, but with the Inuit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Welshboy1991 ( talk • contribs) 02:59, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Well, there's actually not that much reference to it online, but in a book my mother has on the Inuit, it mentions that it is not Aboriginal, but Alaskan in fact. I have to find the book, but for now, here's a link: http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/28/messages/633.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Welshboy1991 ( talk • contribs) 22:47, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Well, looks like you're right after all. Well, until I find more accurate evidence to support my view, I guess we'll say that it is still unclear who created the term. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Welshboy1991 ( talk • contribs) 01:58, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
This is way too USA centric, and recentist. Rabies is not even mentioned. It still kills thousands of people each year in India and Africa. Steve Dufour ( talk) 13:22, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
First of all, this article is excellent. I just have a tiny quibble with something I maybe notice as a person who spends a lot of time editing disambiguation pages for animal words.
This part here that says "A few animals have "dog" in their common names but are not canids, such as the prairie dog and the dog fish." While the prairie dog is a good example of this and may be necessary to say, the dog fish example seems to be speaking to a person who doesn't speak English, which is the only thing we are supposed to assume is true of the readers.
Anyone who speaks English instinctively knows that an animal called, for example, a duck eagle, is an eagle named after ducks for some reason. The same rules of English tell us that if an eagle duck is not really a duck, some disambiguation is in order, but no one has to be told that it's not really an eagle. Think about milk chocolate and chocolate milk, for example. One is the head of the noun phrase and the other is a modifier. This is why the case of prairie dog is listed on the dog (disambiguation) page, but dog fish and dogwood are not.
Therefore, I would like to edit it so that it reads:
"A few animals, such as the prairie dog, have the word "dog" in their common names but are not canids."
Done
The article says: "As the modern understanding of genetics developed, humans began to intentionally breed dogs for a wide range of specific traits." They were doing this in ancient Egypt. It does not depend on modern understanding of genetics, athough this helped the process. Steve Dufour ( talk) 13:17, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
The article is locked, so we cannot just edit it. The talk page, however, does provide a nice forum for working out just what it should say. I think it would be simplest to describe it all in the same place (perhaps a simple sentence as an in-line list), but as a series of developments: 1st: unintentional human selection. Humans just get along with, raise, and promote the propagation of individuals with traits they like. This could have gone on for over 10,000 years with substantial results. 2nd: intentional breeding, without knowledge of evolution or genetics other than just figuring out that traits are passed on. 3rd: Artificial selection that uses understanding of genetics (modern breeders).
Here is a stab: Humans cared for dogs that had desirable traits, and eventually began to intentionally breed dogs for a wide range of specific traits 68.106.25.212 ( talk) 06:30, 5 July 2010 (UTC).
Horowitz'a Inside of a Dog pulls together a lot of the research on the domestication of dogs Marj ( talk) 01:46, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
Should the page perhaps include a word or two on the dissenting idea that the dog is not a domesticated wolf after all, but was ever its own species? Obviously people love to challenge accepted ideas, but there appears to be little real evidence for wolf origins – genetically and morphologically dogs are closer to other canids, etc. See linked article:
http://newguinea-singing-dog-conservation.org/Tidbits/OriginOfTheDog.pdf
Perhaps this matter comes up all the time on this talk page. If so, I apologize. Bossk-Office ( talk) 13:33, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
I have some concerns about an article that misrepresents facts right from the introduction - "The dog origin alternatives are: (1) an origin from golden jackal (Canis aureus) (Lorenz 1954)" when Lorenz actually believed that some dog breeds descended from wolf-like ancestors and other from jackal-like canids. He himself preferred the wolf-breeds as he called them. Marj ( talk) 01:52, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
{{ editsemiprotected}} The last paragraph of the "Health risks to humans" reads as follows: "There were 1,122 dog attack incidents reported by all New South Wales councils from 1 January 2010 to 31 March 2010. This number included harassment and bites by dogs on people and animals. The Staffordshire Bull Terrier was responsible for the largest number of attacks in New South Wales in the early part of 2010.[76]"
What relevance does dog attack statistics for a particular state in Australia and for a particular (and short) time period have in a general worldwide article on dogs? I believe this paragraph should be deleted.
Amace81 ( talk) 10:41, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
When 6.0 goes final, we might want to mention 🐕, 🐩, and 🐶. ⇔ ChristTrekker 18:54, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
You may not have a subscription to Science News, but I do and I think it's ok if I quote the just one line or two of this: http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/57390/title/Who_reined_the_dogs_in
"The largest-ever genetic family tree of dogs and wolves traces dogs’ domestic origin to the region, an international group of researchers reports online March 17 in Nature."
You really should check it out, but what you really need is someone with a subscription to Nature and the expertise to summarize it here. I’ll give you my reading, for what it’s worth:
We now know that most, but not all, come from the Middle East or Europe; that for the most part the old genetic evidence that indicated they might have come from China, they have enough to say now that that was wrong. East Asian dog breeds are not older, as we thought, as this article says.
This doesn't mean the search for the first dog is over, but it narrows it down a bit. The way I see it, it makes sense that the they are more primitive, East Asian breeds and dingoes, because they’re younger, not older. See, they evolved recently, so they haven't had time to come as far away from the proto-wolf-dog as, for example, my Spaniel Casey, at least in part. That’s how I make sense of it in my mind, anyway.
The old work was done on mitochondrial DNA only, as this article says. This new stuff is on DNA scattered across the whole genome, so is clearer, and it jives better with the archeological evidence in the article. The article is presenting them as contradictory, East Asia from the mDNA, West Asia/Europe for the archeological. This will help the article harmonize that, it seems to me. Asian breeds aren't as genetically diverse and have a more recent common ancestor, is what the article seems to say, so that means the articles about the Inus, Chinese Shar Pei, and chow chow, etc., as well as those that fall into the category of Canis lupus dingo; the Telomian, Borneo dog, the Australian Dingo, New Guinea Singing Dog, etc, those we think of as less domesticated; it seems like they are primitive because they were still interbreeding with Chinese wolves, still intermediate Wolf/dog forms, when they were genetically isolated as breeds or varieties or what have you, landraces maybe.
“It makes sense to me that the earliest domestic dogs would breed with wolves when the distribution of the two overlapped, which is what probably happened in East Asia,”
It warns that this not only does ‘’’not’’’ mean that they've found the exact moment of domestication, but reason dictates there's a limit to how precise we're ever going to get to a very exact date because:
“It was probably a pretty fluid interchange for hundreds or thousands of years between protodogs and wolves,”
The new tree, I can’t see it in Nature, but as I understand the way this article describes it, it can help many articles across the Dog project. They say it shows, for example, that the basic dog types, terriers and hounds and shepherds and such, are being shown to be real genetic realities. They aren't just dogs that were created more than once from different stock. They have much more detail about this in the Nature (journal) article than we'd previously known, if someone has a subscription to Nature can see the new, more detailed, dog family tree. So it doesn't jive perfectly with the American Kennel Club and so on's "taxonomies" of dog, but it does confirm much of it as genetic, not just on job or physical features, the article says. Chrisrus ( talk) 04:54, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
The origins of the phrase "man's best friend" is discussed at Old Drum. Some mention should probably be here -- especially since the phrase is used twice including one toward the lead. Americasroof ( talk) 19:35, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Under the heading Work, the list of main working breeds is missing some very key working breeds, including the Belgian Malinois, German Shepherd Dog, Labrador Retriever, and Border Collie. I believe these breeds should be included given their prominent use in herding, military/police work, search and rescue and service work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Workingk9 ( talk • contribs) 18:16, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
I agree that they should be included, but there is already a rather large list of working dogs. Maybe the list should be modified somehow? RoseSoul 04:01, 14 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by RoseSoul ( talk • contribs)
Leonberger has to be on the list if Pir. and Newf. are there. Leo = P + N + St.B. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.156.63.59 ( talk) 22:46, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
Dogs are carnivores whose wolf ancestors lived in packs. The statement: "Dogs are pack animals..." should be reworded. The reference to the former use of dogs as pack animals by Apaches and Navajo does not make the dog a pack animal any more than strapping a harness on a house cat and letting it carry a day's ration of water and cat food while one drags it about on a leash makes a house cat a pack animal. -- Fartherred ( talk) 11:25, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Skylos = Skilled, Skill = Ability O A'dis Eskileusthi, Doulevo san skilos Skyladiko, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.84.55.149 ( talk) 22:55, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Skylos = Skilled, Skill = Ability O A'dis Eskileusthi, Doulevo san skilos Skyladiko, Skyvala, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.84.55.149 ( talk) 22:57, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
I edited the following sentence in the intro to the article from:
"This versatility, more than almost any other known animal, has given them the nickname "Man's best friend" in the western world."
to:
This versatility, more than probably any other known animal, has given them the nickname "Man's best friend" in the western world.
I think the first version implies that there is some animal with greater versatility with regards to being of value to humans, and the article doesn't suggest that.
Trolle3000 [talk] 20:52, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
I don't really like the name for the Biology section, because most of the article deals with what I would consider to be aspects of dog biology. The two sections before Biology deal with evolution and taxonomy, which are both subfields of biology. The Biology section basically deals with a bunch of random aspects of dog biology that don't fit into any other section. I don't know what else to call this section, but the current name just seems odd. Any thoughts? Is it just me? -- MYCETEAE - talk 07:21, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
Interesting observation, MYCETEAE. For grins, I went and looked at a couple of other like pages, i.e. Cat, Rabbit, Horse, Bird, and none has a Biology section. I like the Cat page breakdown. Maybe this could be reworked similarly? Bob98133 ( talk) 13:07, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
Please change "John Katz" to "Jon Katz" (in both the text and the reference) because that's how he spells his name. (see
http://www.amazon.com/New-Work-Dogs-Tending-Family/dp/0375508147 for verification). Thanks!
Cwa1974 (
talk)
01:49, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
Am I the only one that finds it odd that the German Sheppard is not listed as a working dog?
http://www.gsdca.org/index.php http://www.akc.org/breeds/german_shepherd_dog/ http://www.gsscc.ca/
Defendertech ( talk) 15:04, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
Defendertech ( talk) 15:04, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
Do dogs belong to the chordata phylum, because the chordata phylum consists of animal who have a notochord and lose them later on in life or vice versa, I think dogs belong to the Phylum Vertebratae because they have the notochord(Vertebreal Column actuall) throughout their life, I am just a ninth grade student and I am not exactly sure and i would like to know Thank You —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.229.235.38 ( talk) 18:21, 5 December 2010 (UTC) You are absolutely correct; any animal with a backbone belongs to that phylum. Chrisrus ( talk) 03:33, 18 February 2011 (UTC) hey whats up guyx? my name is Shabanna and i am from Mars. Remmeber? we met at the mall? OMG tim was looking hilarious.. lol
The recent edit adding this classification to the infobox seems to me to be the wrong way round - the subspecies may very well not be distinct, but no domestic dog has ever been classified as canis lupus dingo. -- Ian Dalziel ( talk) 20:08, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
asain people eat dogs
This article is currently listed as a Good Article nominee, but the nomination was done by an editor who has not contributed much to the article and was not discussed here first; usually a bad sign. I might potentially be interested in doing a review, and my initial take is that the article is within shooting range of GA level but needs fixing in some ways, so I would like to find out whether there are contributors who are able and willing to participate in a possibly extended GA process. (If not, I think it might be best to remove the nom before a review is started.) Looie496 ( talk) 22:27, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Looie496 (talk) 19:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
It looks like a review was accidentally started by somebody else -- hopefully I can take it up without breaking anything. I would like to go through the article one part of a time, adding points as I go. My emphasis will be on whether the article is comprehensive, accurate, and understandable. I'll start with the lede:
I may as I go on suggest adding something or other to the lede, but those are the main points I see at present. Looie496 ( talk) 19:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
What's the status of this review on either side? No comments in nearly a month. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 16:04, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
I would like to point out a factual inconsistency in the second introduction paragraph. The "modern understanding of genetics" was developed in the beginning of the 20th century after the work of Gregor Mendel was rediscovered. People had been experimenting with dogs for millenia by that point, and while I do not have the empirical evidence on hand, the examples used are varieties that were developed well before the modern understanding of genetics per se. I think a more approriate way to structure this would be to say "as people began to experiment with breeding". Sorry for the anecdotal nature of my suggestion, but I think it stands to reason that most of our dog breeds were developed earlier than 1900. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.64.0.171 ( talk) 13:48, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to see no one has picked up on the above well written post, and edited the article. According to Daniel Boorstein (former Librarian of Congress) in his book "The Discoverers", the discoveries of Gregor Mendl were ignored by Western Science, and died with him. In the 1890s, three separate biologists rediscovered Mendlian principles (most notably the principle behind recessive genes) and published papers that made the knowledge part of the scientific canon. So the writer above is correct to assert that knowledge of these principles began to have practical application in the early 20th century. There is no need to discuss the second point made above, that many of the breeds we know today were created by dog breeders in centuries well previous to the 1890s. You can see that I am opinionated, but not versed in the editing conventions of Wikipedia, so will some qualified person please correct the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.163.115.114 ( talk) 04:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
Over the 15,000 year span the dog had been domesticated, it diverged into only a handful of landraces, groups of similar animals whose morphology and behavior have been shaped by environmental factors and functional roles. As the modern understanding of genetics developed, humans began to intentionally breed dogs for a wide range of specific traits. Through this process, the dog has developed into hundreds of varied breeds, and shows more behavioral and morphological variation than any other land mammal.[12] For example, height measured to the withers ranges from a few inches in the Chihuahua to a few feet in the Irish Wolfhound; color varies from white through grays (usually called "blue'") to black, and browns from light (tan) to dark ("red" or "chocolate") in a wide variation of patterns; coats can be short or long, coarse-haired to wool-like, straight, curly, or smooth.[13] It is common for most breeds to shed this coat.
I hope you can help me incorporate this into the article:
According to Laurie Corbet's The Dingo in Australia and in Asia, ordinary street dogs in Thailand and places all over not only southeast Asia but also anywhere the Austronesian {please click, that word may not refer to what you might be thinking} cultural/ethno-linguistic area and places they traded or shipwrecked during the prehistoric diaspora of the Austronesian seafaring people: from the mainlanf to the Indonesian and Phillipine archepelagoes and many other places as far-flung as Taiwan and Madagascar - all over these places researchers have found street dogs and such wandering about the cities and chained up in junkyards and such, which are taxonomically identical to the Australian Dingo, and so they were forced to accept them into the taxon dingo formerly reserved for the Australian native dog, only.
The Australian Dingo's ancestor arrived about one thousand years ago on an Austronesian ship, maybe traders or failed settlers or survivors of a shipwreck or some such, and from there attached themselves to the wholely different Australian native people or simply went feral, eventually becoming more of a wild animal than the domesticated domestic dog that they had been. So it turns out that the native Australians hadn't brought the dogs with them when they came after all: some maybe fourteen thousand years before that they must have been dogless. Experts have recently figured this out, so many still believe that the Aus dingo got there with the first settlers, but that turns out not to have been true. This makes sense because the new understanding is that the dog wasn't domesticated or evolved anywhere until agriculture and larger settlements came about, not during hunter-gatherer times as also used to be thought and still assumed by non-experts.
The reason dingo the taxon hasn't been therefore demoted along with "Canis aquaticus" and the rest - the reason would, as you suggest, indeed be a good addition to the article, but none of my sources address this question, other than MSW3's brief and to my mind lame excuse about getting the correct alignment of taxonomic synonyms and the implication that they'll revisit the decision next time around. So your request that this be explained is a good one but a tough one. Actually, it bugs me, too, so welcome to my world; I'm happy not to be alone in seeing this problem. They seem to be pointing to a sort of taxonomic inertia, tradition, or some such. An expert should review the clause and explain that in the article, but to my mind the answer doesn't seem to be out there in a way that would be citable except the apologetic "alignment of synonyms" bit which isn't going to satisfy a careful reader any more than it does you or me, so I hope we could still get a good article status anyway by explaining this odd moment we inhabit in the intellectual history of thought on dogs in as clear and appropriate way as possible, and it's not our fault if the greatest experts themselves seem ambivilent and reluctant or at a loss to explain themselves.
But anyway, MSW3 says that the domestic dog is a subspecies of C lupus that includes familiaris with the dingo "provisionally separate" and that other old synonyms like "aquaticus" are not valid taxons because they are the result of human breeding and taxonomy doesn't go there anymore. Corbett says C.l.dingo is an ordinary southeast Asian dog that was adopted by Austronesians and spread through areas they settled or contacted, including Australia where the dogs landed somehow went and went feral or wild more recently than originally assumed and still widely believed, and that they were given the taxon dingo back in the days when Spaniels and Mastiffs and such each had their own taxons but that hasn't been changed in the case of dingoes for reasons that are hard to defend and called "provisional". Chrisrus ( talk) 07:48, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
the dog is chewing on the pig foot not eating it —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.120.47.18 ( talk) 15:59, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
kiss my anthea
{{
edit semi-protected}}
The senses section of the article on dogs is somewhat lacking. As I have had significant experience researching the vision of Canines I pulled out my resource material and expanded on the section on sight. I also would like to expand on the other sections such as those dealing with hearing and smell, however, I do not feel I have performed adequate research to be able to meaningfully edit these sections. Below I have included the sight section of the page including additions and their respective references.:
Like most mammals, dogs are dichromats and have color vision equivalent to red-green color blindness in humans (deuteranopia). [3] [4] [5] [6] Dogs are less sensitive to differences in grey shades than humans and also can detect brightness at about half the accuracy of humans. [7]
The dog's visual system has evolved to aid proficient hunting. [3] While a dog's visual acuity is poor (that of a poodle's has been estimated to translate to a Snellen rating of 20/75 [3]), their visual discrimination for moving objects is very high; dogs have been shown to be able to discriminate between humans (e.g. identifying their owner) range of between 800-900 m, however this range decrease to 500-600m if the object is stationary. [3] Dogs have a temporal resolution of between 60-70 hz which explains why many dogs struggle to watch television as modern screens are optimized for humans at 50-60 hz. [8] Dogs can detect detect a change in movement that exists in a single diopter of space within their eye. (humans require a change of between 10-20 diopters. Comparatively dogs can detect movement that is up to 20 times subtler than a human. [9] [10]
As crepuscular hunters, dogs often rely on their vision in low light situations: they have very large pupils, a high density of rods in the fovea, an increased flicker rate, and a tapetum lucidum. [3] The tapetum is a reflective surface behind the retina that reflects light back to give the photoreceptors a second chance to catch the photons. There is also a relationship between body size and overall diameter of the eye. A range of 9.5 and 11.6 mm can be found between various breeds of dogs. This 20% variance can be substantial and is associated as an adaptation toward superior night vision. [11]
The eyes of different breeds of dogs have different shapes, dimensions, and retina configurations. [12] Many long-nosed breeds have a "visual streak" – a wide foveal region that runs across the width of the retina and gives them a very wide field of excellent vision. Some long-muzzled breeds, particularly the sighthounds, have a field of vision up to 270° (compared to 180° for humans). Short-nosed breeds, on the other hand, have an "area centralis": a central patch with up to three times the density of nerve endings as the visual streak, giving them detailed sight much more like a human's. Some broad-headed breeds with short noses have a field of vision similar to that of humans. [4] [5] Most breeds have good vision, but some show a genetic predisposition for myopia – such as Rottweilers, where one out of every two has been found to be myopic. [3] Dogs also have a greater divergence of the eye axis than humans allowing them to rotate their pupils farther in any direction. The divergence of the eye axis of dogs ranges from 12-25° depending on the breed. [13]
Experimentation has proven that dogs can distinguish between complex visual images such as that of a cube or a prism. Dogs also show attraction to static visual images such as the silhouette of a dog on a screen, their own reflections, or videos of dogs, however, their interest declines sharply once they are unable to make social contact with the image. [14]
Rcooper102 ( talk) 14:31, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
The third sentence of "As pets" is patently inaccurate, as anyone knows who remembers the fifties, when doghouses were largely unused, or Asta, who lived in Nick and Nora's apartment. Would some researcher more energetic than I please rewrite accordingly? C. Cerf ( talk) 20:44, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
The article states that "wild dogs... are apex predators". It then immediately goes on to list all the animals that prey on wild dogs: wolves, hyaenas, big cats, crocodiles etc. How can animals with multiple predators be considered in any way an apex predator? In what ecosystems are wild dogs apex predators? 111.220.201.171 ( talk) 13:11, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
I'm adding this talk page section after seeing this edit, which changed an assertion in the lead section which previously read, "... these attributes have earned dogs a unique relationship with humans, despite being potentially dangerous apex predators." to read instead as "... these attributes have given dogs a relationship with humans that has enabled them to become one of the most successful species on the planet today." The source cited to support both versions of that sentence is the book Ádám Miklósi (2007), Dog behaviour, evolution, and cognition, Oxford University Press, ISBN 9780199295852. Page 1 of that book says, "This book is about the biological study of dog behavior, based on the programme summarized so clearly by Tinnbergen in 1963. ...". I don't know whether or not the cited source supports either or both versions of that assertion, because the citation doesn't give a page numbered reference in this 274 page book. (I am a bit bemused by seeing "programme summarized" there -- an interesting juxtaposition of British and American spellings)
I see that the changed-to version of the quoted snippet echoes a point made in the article body -- citing this book in support without specifying a page. Perhaps the Ref in the lead is not needed.
Looking at the cite, I counted 16 collected Refs -- 16 instances where this source is cited in support of an assertion without providing a page numbere. Most or all of these should provide page numbers or ranges.
At one point, this source is cited in support of the assertion, "... the gray wolf, is the common ancestor for all breeds of domestic dogs." This google books search turns up a snippet on page 266 which says, "DNA profiles of the eastern Canadian wolf and the red wolf provide evidence for a common evolutionary history independent of the gray wolf." The complete text for that page is not previewable, and I don't know whether or not this is a contradiction, but a page number where the book supports the assertion should be identified.
Another cite repeats the "successful species" assertion spoken of earlier, without specifying a page number. I don't know whether or not the source does support that -- I do see that page 238 says that the ancestor of the dog was a very successful species.
I've added page number info to some previously unnumbered cites of this source. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 01:16, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
{{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |coauthors=
ignored (|author=
suggested) (
help)
{{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |coauthors=
ignored (|author=
suggested) (
help)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 |
On another note,does anyone have any good scientific studies supporting spaying female dogs prior to the first estrus cycle to prevent the mammary gland from being stimulating by hormones and therefore also prevent breast cancer. I have heard vets and read many things over the internet, but never have seen any definitive study. Can anyone help.
The term bitch is no more correct for a female canine (not canid) than the term female. The definition of bitch is "a female dog." Thus, Female is the superordinate term, and in the context of canines, bitch provides no further information. Under wikipedia guidelines, editors should refrain from making arbitrary edits. If there is no substantive justification for including "bitch" instead of "female", then female should not be edited. "Bitch" could be edited to "female" if there is sufficient reason for the change. I'll provide three reasons:
I propose creating a standard from consensus that will help resolve future edit wars about the proper usage of the term. To achieve this, I propose changing instances of bitch to female with a link to this debate; that will encourage people who are interested in the topic to come here and help form a consensus. Hopefully we can come to a consensus, and then use that standard for future edits of all dog pages.
-- Thesoxlost ( talk) 15:59, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
You're not late. As long as people throw in their opinions here over the next months or years, consensus will eventually be found.
The insistence that in order to be consistent, we would have to change all uses of dog to male really supports my point. On wikipedia, dog is not used in the technical sense that indicates gender. Dog is the common use English term used to specify members of the species canis lupus familiaris regardless of sex. Just look at the dog article. Where is the term dog being used in a gender specific fashion? I am arguing that common-use words be used except in cases where the technical usage of dog and bitch would be more appropriate (e.g., when discussing breeding or showing). Each of the terms you used above are in common usage. Can you really argue that bitch is in common use? What percentage of dog owners do you know that use the term (without implying the derogatory meaning) to refer to their own dog? Personally, I know no one who uses it. -- Thesoxlost ( talk) 23:19, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
For what it's worth, we know a couple things from social and cognitive psychology: (1) if a word has two alternative meanings, we process both meanings simultaneously; (2) if that meaning is associated with a trait (say a negative or hostile trait), it automatically colors our perception. See http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=search.displayRecord&uid=1983-07893-001
Its just one of many, but this study shows that subconscious priming of hostility causes subjects to rate behaviors and people as more hostile. In this context, the negative traits associated with the dominant (derogatory) use of the word "bitch" will bias our perception of female dogs. Similarly, the use of the word niggardly activates more meanings than "stingy" that one would be wise to avoid.
Also, those who complained about censorship, read WP:profanity.
-- Thesoxlost ( talk) 22:17, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
This article is pretty close to being ready for nomination for GA standing. There are few more issues that need to be addressed. Perhaps interested editors could post new issues or try to fix them. Here is an initial list, put together in a peer review by Dana Boomer, and greatly modified by thesoxlost:
Pending
Partially Addressed (possibly resolved)
Resolved
-- Thesoxlost ( talk) 22:37, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_Wolf
The Dog article says that the Domestic Dog is a subspecies of the Gray Wolf. That is to say, the Gray Wolf is a species with several subspecies, of which the Domestic Dog is but one. The Domestic Dog, then, is a subset of Gray Wolf. All Domestic Dogs are Gray Wolves, but not all Gray Wolves are Domestic Dogs. (Forgive my caps, which I have included for clarity.)
The Gray Wolf article states in one place that the Domestic Dog shares ancestry with the Gray Wolf. Elsewhere, it states that the Gray Wolf is an ancestor to the Domestic Dog.
The ideas presented in the two articles are not, under close analysis, compatible. If the set A is ancestral to the set B, then the set A cannot also include the set B.
I think we need to pick a winner on this one, and stick with it.
Ordinary Person ( talk) 05:17, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
The passage on neutering previously read:
It is not necessary for a female dog to either experience a heat cycle or have puppies before spaying, and likewise, a male dog does not need the experience of mating before castration. In fact, there is evidence that spaying females prior to their first heat cycle influents the animal development differently that after the animal reaches sexual maturity. Female cats and dogs may be more likely to develop certain reproduction organs deseases, mostly breeding-specific, such as Canine_venereal_sarcoma, Brucellosis etc, if they are not spayed before their first heat cycle. Also, fertile dogs have higher chances to develop some forms of cancer, affecting mammary glands, ovaries and other reproduction organs (author=Morrison, Wallace B.|title=Cancer in Dogs and Cats (1st ed.)|publisher=Williams and Wilkins|year=1998|isbn=0-683-06105-4). However, spaying or neutering very young animals, also known as early-age spay, can result in increased health concerns later on in life...
I deleted the part in bold, because it's confusing and I can't work out what side it's arguing ("In fact, there is evidence that spaying females prior to their first heat cycle influents the animal development differently that after the animal reaches sexual maturity"?). According to the RSPCA ( http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RSPCA/Page/RSPCAContentTemplate&cid=1152286830457&articleId=1152286835649) and other reliable sources, it is a myth that either a female or male dog will have health problems if neutered before mating. If the part I deleted is an example of a credible opposition argument, or otherwise, then by all means put it back, but please make it coherent. GM Pink Elephant ( talk) 21:32, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
Still, somewhat confusing and has a few same looking statements. We may a bit re-plan it by sorting early spay, health "pros", health "cons" and behavior changes per se, a subject per paragraph?-- Afru ( talk) 21:05, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
I seriously question this finding. The only place it has been reported is in a lecture at a conference, and the only record are the slides from that talk. There is no discussion of the evidence, no presentation of the results, no explanation of the methods, no operational definitions provided, no opportunity for peer reviewed, and no context provided (e.g., the author saying "these data are preliminary", or "For breed X only"). Furthermore, it hasn't appeared in a scientific journal since it was presented in 2006, which raises serious questions about its validity. This source does not strike me as WP:RS. -- Thesoxlost ( talk) 18:46, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
Reviewing article. This is a large and intense topic, so please have patience. - ΖαππερΝαππερ Babel Alexandria 19:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
I've requested CitationBot to look over the article and make edits. Skimming over this article, there are a few concerns that should be addressed.
- ΖαππερΝαππερ Babel Alexandria 20:59, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
1. Is it reasonably well written?
By Sketchmoose ( talk) 14:40, 23 March 2009 (UTC):
2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
3. Is it broad in its coverage?
4. Is it neutral?
5. Is it stable?
6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
7. Overall:
I just started with Coppingers book and there was something very strange when compared with this and the grey wolf article. In the greywolf article it was stated that: Unlike dogs and coyotes, gray wolves lack sweat glands on their paw pads. This trait is also present in Eastern Canadian Coyotes which have been shown to have recent wolf ancestry. Itw as similar in this article and the referenced source was Coppinger, Ray (2001). Dogs: a Startling New Understanding of Canine Origin, Behavior and Evolution. pp. p352. ISBN 0684855305.
Well I just started with the book and in the foreword it was stated that dogs and western coyotes just have a higher density of those sweat glands than wolves, not that wolves lack them. Saidly I can't just turn to the referenced page 352 because I have the german translation, so could someobody tell me in which chapter that page is so I can check whether the contradiction is based on the writer or on the book?-- Inugami-bargho ( talk) 07:07, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
I was asked to copyedit this article, and I am doing so, but I think some fundamental rewriting is in order. I have comments here, which i will be adding to as I go through the article.
1. What makes Miklosi such an expert that his book is used more than 20 times (with on page numbers) in the opening sections? As a note, it was more, but there are some paragraphs taken entirely from Miklosi, so I dropped the line-by-line cites in favor of a single paragraph end cite. For such a generic article, one source should not be relied upon so heavily for information in a given area.
2. I will leave it up to the regular editors, but I believe that the etymology section has no place in this article. This article is about the animal, not the word, and the etymology section really sidetracks the article. Since it's useful info in some sense, I haven't hacked it out, but I suggest that some discussion be had on this item amongst the regulars.
3. There's a lot of circular discussion in this article. Many items come up multiple times, but in different sections. Again, I would say that the regulars need to decide on one place to reference information, and leave it in that place within the article. For example, the divergence comes up at least three times, and is only discussed in-depth once. MSJapan ( talk) 01:53, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
4. I broke down the senses into subsections for ease of use.
5. I removed the numbers of olfactory cells in the section on smell. The numbers mean very little; a postage stamp vs. a handkerchief is dependent on the size of said objects. I think it's enough to say forty times larger and not belabor the point. MSJapan ( talk) 02:17, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
6. Dog health - I removed the portion on heat exhaustion, as it's the only example given. The opening statement as I have reworded it is enough to get the point across, and examples should only be given if multiple useful examples can be found. MSJapan ( talk) 02:25, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
7. I removed the sections on domestic dog nutrition requirements, and also on dangerous substances. Both of these are in violation of WP:NOT#HOWTO. MSJapan ( talk) 02:41, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
8. I've cut the section on comparison with wolves. As dogs are clearly stated to be descendants of wolves, it's pretty obvious they aren't the same, and I don't believe that the comparative section adds anything of use to this article. MSJapan ( talk) 03:24, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
Copyediting is complete. Template removed. MSJapan ( talk) 03:24, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for zapper for taking the time to review this behemoth of an article. I've typed up responses to his points below in part just for my own use in addressing the concerns. But in places I disagree and I explain why. I'll update this as I make improvements to address his concerns.
1)
2a.)
...classified as Canis lupus familiaris, a subspecies of the Gray Wolf Canis lupus, by the Smithsonian Institution and the American Society of Mammalogists."
"According to the Humane Society of the United States..."
Bob Barker and Drew Carey need to be sourced.
2b.)
"Recent studies proved that spayed and neutered dogs in general are more aggressive towards people and other dogs, as well as more fearful and sensitive to touch than dogs than had not been sterilized,[80] though individual effects may vary." so where is the sourced counter-argument?
"One such class of cognition that involves the understanding that others are conscious agents, often referred to as theory of mind, is an area where dogs excel." Also consider rewording this to make it easier to read, and put theory of mind in "quotes".
There are cite tags in "Disorders and diseases", "Reproduction"
3.)
Missing sections are noted above; additionally - Dogs as food, dogs in science
I'm able to hand over the rights of hundreds of my photos that you might include on the article with no charge. Please aware me whenever it would needed. I produce and collect my own material as a hobbie.-- 85.144.120.49 ( talk) 13:11, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
The link here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan should be changed to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_Hound on the main page, under the list of a few older breeds, toward the top.
(Sorry I don't have 10 edits yet, so can't edit semi-protected pages)
Inlinesk8er ( talk) 01:03, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
This article is very, pardon, dogmatic in its presentation of dogs as being 15,000 years old. The trouble is the previously accepted age is now debatable. Germonpré et al abstract have presented fairly convincing fossil anatomical evidence that dogs are actually at least +/-31,000 years old. Would the usual editors allow a change of the numbers? Trilobitealive ( talk) 02:53, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
somone who can edit the article needs to hide a note written about not having a reference. 125.239.48.128 ( talk) 04:06, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Reading this page I found the remark that dogs are not a real hazard to human health, while in fact they are especialy to children (it was pretty easy to find a reference for that). Also the estimate of reduction in brain size should be about 30% I believe. I checked to references, a Russian one that was hard to retrace and the used reference. The used reference gave a 20% reduction in brain size for equal skull size and a 20% reduction in skull size, amounting to 40%. Also from what I remembered from a documentary comment the figure should be around 30%.
All in all I think the article is a little skewed in favor of the dog, as it is written by dog lovers. I like dogs also, but living in a crowded city where dogs are still doing their thing on the sidewalk or at playing grounds it is hard not to see the negative aspects.
Viridiflavus ( talk) 13:57, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
There is no info about dogs as food. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.161.245.250 ( talk) 22:26, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
NO but thank you for seeing my point. I have terrible writing skills. I love dogs that is why I brought it up —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.161.245.250 ( talk) 03:47, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
There are many times of dogs including herding Breeds, Toy and Companion, Working dogs, and more. Working dogs can be anywere from German Sheperds to Labradors, Toy and Companion include dogs such as, Chiwauwaus and Jach Russels. In the category of Herding dogs are, dogs like the Border Collie and Australian Sheperds Kyle .L.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.157.73.3 ( talk) 19:22, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
but humans can hear even 20Hz.. dogs only above 40Hz...
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.139.9.247 ( talk) 20:54, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~mnkylab/doglab.html
-- Calypsoparakeet ( talk) 23:18, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
My Rottweiller speyed bitch smiles; has anyone else seen this in their dogs? Her 'smiling' has been witnessed by our family but also by many, many people who she has become to trust. Does anyone else see this in their dogs or is it just her? I think other dogs may 'smile' too, please let me know? A
dogs help humans Dogs have been with us all through and the history of the world. Cats have too, but dogs have shown have a more positive impact on our history. Dogs have been around helping us all through the years, helping us to evolve to become we are at today. “Evidently, the domestication of dogs and the civilization of man occurred at the same time.” (Reader's Digest Illustrated 16) “Dogs offer us emotional support, lift our spirits, and ease stress.” (Thomas 97) Thomas, Elizabeth Marshall. Guide to your Dog. New York: Wild Discovery, 1999. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.246.93.243 ( talk) 17:27, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
The article is entitled "dog", but the word dog can also mean any species in the Canidae family, including wolves, foxes, jackals and domestic Dogs. -- The High Fin Sperm Whale ( talk) 01:36, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Maybe a stupid question, but can dog breeds as disparate as, say, a Saint Bernard and a Jack Russell Terrier produce offspring? If they can't, does that not make them different species? Thanks 69.134.33.93 ( talk) 04:59, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Most people also find dogs urinating and defecating in a public place to be offensive To me this sentence seems unnecessary, out of place, and poorly cited. 67.233.209.55 ( talk) 07:27, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
It's just a general "thought" of the person who wrote it. There is even a "disclaimer" at the bottom of the article the footnote references to make sure a reader knows that it is "written for and by students without any claims of accuracy."
The use of this as a "footnote" boggles the mind.
It certainly does! Farts, what dogs do all the time. I have to evacute my house whenever my dog decides to let out some air. TERRIBLE!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.176.202.110 ( talk) 22:04, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one who noticed the absurd assertion in the article that dogs are omnivores.
The absurd thing is that Wikipedia normally observant and quick to catch nonsense like this, has completely missed how the concept of the "footnote" to "verify" a fact has been royally abused. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jolorious ( talk • contribs) 08:41, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
More published proof that dogs are carnivores, not omnivores:
Dogs desended from wolves. As dogs got demesticated thay have changed. Their teeth are for punturing but most people give dogs regular dog food. As you probably know dogs will usually eat anything, that doesn't make them carnivors. Canines don't hunt down meat and feed on it. The average dog owner feeds their canine dog food and what is in the food in vitemins and healthy minerals for the dog. Dogs love meat.
As you look into your dog's mouth, notice those huge impressive teeth (or tiny needle sharp teeth). These are designed for grabbing, ripping, tearing, shredding, and shearing meat (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pg 258.). They are not equipped with large flat molars for grinding up plant matter. Their molars are pointed and situated in a scissors bite (along with the rest of their teeth) that powerfully disposes of meat, bone, and hide. Carnivores are equipped with a peculiar set of teeth that includes the presence of carnassial teeth: the fourth upper premolar and first lower molar. Hence, dogs do not chew, they are designed to bite, rip, shred, scissor/crush and swallow.
However much, we humans have done to tinker with and change the dog's body design (resulting invarying sizes and conformations), we have done nothing to change the internal anatomy and physiology of our carnivorous canines. "Dogs have the internal anatomy and physiology of a carnivore" (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pg 260.). They have a highly elastic stomach designed to hold large quantities of meat, bone, organs, and hide. Their stomachs are simple, with an undeveloped caecum (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pg 260.). They have a relatively short foregut and a short, smooth, unsacculated colon. This means food passes through quickly. Vegetable and plant matter, however, needs time to sit and ferment. This equates to requiring longer, sacculated colons, larger and longer small intestines, and occasionally the presence of a caecum. Dogs have none of these, but have the shorter foregut and hindgut consistent with carnivorous animals. This explains why plant matter comes out the same way it came in; there was no time for it to be broken down and digested (among other things). Some educated People know this; this is why they tell you that vegetables and grains have to be pre-processed for your dog to get anything out of them. But even then, feeding vegetables and grains to a carnivorous animal is a highly questionable practice.
"Dogs do not normally produce the necessary enzymes in their saliva (amylase, for example) to start the breakdown process of carbohydrates and starches; amylase in saliva is something omnivorous and herbivorous animals possess, but not carnivorous animals. This places the burden entirely on the pancreas, forcing it to produce large amounts of amylase to deal with the starch, cellulose, and carbohydrates in plant matter. The carnivore's pancreas does not secrete cellulase to split the cellulose into glucose molecules, nor have dogs become efficient at digesting and assimilating and utilizing plant material as a source of high quality protein. Herbivores do those sorts of things" Canine and Feline Nutrition Case, Carey and Hirakawa Published by Mosby, 1995
Dogs are so much like wolves physiologically that they are frequently used in wolf studies as a physiological model for wolf body processes (Mech, L.D. 2003. Wolves: Behavior, Ecology, and Conservation). Additionally, dogs and wolves share 99.8% of their mitochondrial DNA ( Wayne, R.K. Molecular Evolution of the Dog Family). br>This next quote is from Robert K. Wayne, Ph.D., and his discussion on canine genetics (taken from www.fiu.edu/~milesk/Genetics.html). "The domestic dog is an extremely close relative of the gray wolf, differing from it by at most 0.2% of mDNA sequence..."
Dogs have recently been reclassified as Canis lupus familiaris by the Smithsonian Institute (Wayne, R.K. "What is a Wolfdog?"(www.fiu.edu/~milesk/Genetics.html), placing it in the same species as the gray wolf, Canis lupus. The dog is, by all scientific standards and by evolutionary history, a domesticated wolf (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pg 472.). Those who insist dogs did not descend from wolves must disprove the litany of scientific evidence that concludes wolves are the ancestors of dogs. And, as we have already established, the wolf is a carnivore. Since a dog's internal physiology does not differ from a wolf, dogs have the same physiological and nutritional needs as those carnivorous predators, which, remember, "need to ingest all the major parts of their herbivorous prey, except the plants in the digestive system" to "grow and maintain their own bodies" (Mech, L.D. 2003. Wolves: Behavior, Ecology, and Conservation.).
References: Prof. Dr. Sir John Whitman Ray B.A., ND., D.Sc., NMD., CT. MT.. CI, Cert. Pers., PhD., B.C Dip N, MD. (M.A.), Dr. Ac, FFIM., Dp. IM., F.WA I .M., RM., B.E.I.N.Z., S.N.T.R., N Z. Char. NMP, N P A Dr. Francis M. Pottenger Jr. MD Dr. Kouchakoff of Switzerland Dr. Weston A. Price Dr Tom Lonsdale Carissa Kuehn
Dr. Dr Jeanette Thomason http://www.thewholedog.org/artcarnivores.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.7.176.5 ( talk) 15:13, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
It´s classified like a carnivore but is a omnivore... ??? what kind of affirmation is that?
Although there are reported cases (...) of carnivores eating plants, the classification refers to the adaptations and main food source of the species in general so these exceptions do not make either individual animals nor the species as a whole omnivores.
‘Have you ever seen a dog attack a wheat field?’
Professor David Kronfeld
Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pág 258 —Preceding unsigned comment added by AbdónMorales ( talk • contribs) 16:00, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
—Preceding unsigned comment added by AbdónMorales ( talk • contribs) 01:04, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
The article mentions milk as a source of proteins for dogs. But my vet told me that dogs cannot digest milk (We use buffalo milk) and should be given meat or eggs (I have a lab female)?-- Nikhil Sanjay Bapat ( talk) 07:25, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
The "footnote" used to "backup" the notion that "dogs are Omnivores" is BOGUS! A quick check of the link tells you it is Non-Scientific information written by and for students. That's It. It is NOT a reflection of any sort of scientific thinking or research. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Mokonik (
talk •
contribs) 22:00, September 18, 2009
After checking the article on domestication I wondered whether it wouldn't be better to describe the domestic dog in the article as a "domestic subspecies" of the gray wolf instead of domesticated, or just as a subspecies. According to the article of domestication one characterisation is artificial selection by humans. And although this is true for the majority of the dogs who belong to breeds, this is certainly not true for feral dogs and many (if not the majority) of cross- and mixed breed dogs.-- Inugami-bargho ( talk) 07:42, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
The omnivores statement is why wiki is not accepted by any university, much less elementary school teachers. There are countless articles that classify dogs as carnivores. Anyone with a basic science background can look at the anatomy and tell where dogs fall in the classification. Domestication changes nothing. A horse is a horse if it's wild or tame. Wiki calls dogs carnivores under the carnivores section. Here they someone that chooses to feed their dog veggies thinks that changes their classification. Sorry, you just have a bias. Here's some links: http://aspenbloompetcare.com/2009/07/dogs-the-omnivore-carnivore-controversy.htm http://rawfed.com/myths/omnivores.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore
So, now we KNOW dogs are carnivores and all dietary decisions must conform to this if they are to result in proper, appropriate, nutrition. This is not something we can change to suit our own likes, needs and beliefs. In order to respect animals we need to honor their true nature rather than creating myths to allow for our convenience or even for our denial of living with carnivores in our homes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.26.44.111 ( talk • contribs)
Dogs are actually omnivores. Even though most of them probably do eat more meat than plants if they can help it and may prefer meat, they still do eat plants. Saying that they are carnivores is like saying that people are herbivores simply because most people eat more plants than meat. The truth is dogs do rely on plants for proper nutrition as well as on meat. I have dogs of my own and I know for a fact that they love several types of plants: they snatch carrots every chance they get, adore celery, and like to eat the wild grasses they find in their yard, to name a few. That is one reason why most, if not all, commercial dog foods include vegetables and at least one type of grain, but have more meat than other ingredients, as healthy wild dogs would eat a lot of meat as well. And about the milk: I think dogs are meant to generally be lactose intolerant, so it probably should be avoided unless your veterinarian says otherwise. Zonafur ( talk) 19:35, 9 June 2009 (UTC) Zonafur
^ You're 100% wrong in your assumption. Just because a dog is opportunistic, absolutely does NOT mean it has a nutritional need for plant matter. My dog eats cat poop. Does that mean she has a nutritional need for cat poop? Should you be feeding your dog cat poop?! Of course not. By your logic, my dog must be a catpoopivore!
When's the last time you ate something you don't have a nutritional need for? Yesterday, I ate a piece of cheesy garlic bread. It may have contained some iron and some calcium an a few other vitamins and minerals, but I'm sure I could've gotten those nutrients and calories by eating a much healthier option. On top of that, I have the ability to digest what I ate (well, for the most part) -- dogs do not have a the ability (they're lacking enzymes and a proper digestive tract) to digest whole veggies. If you feed a dog a whole carrot and he swallows it whole, it'll come out whole. And if you're feeding your dog pureed veggies for vitamins and minerals, well guess what, those same vitamins and minerals can be found in meat, bone, and organ which dogs can digest much more efficiently. So, WHY would you intentionally feed them veggies for nutritional reasons when you know 1. they're not going to get anything out of it and 2. there are much more species-appropriate options available?
And, of course most commercial dog foods contain veggies and grains (take note that higher "quality" kibbles do not contain grains) -- they're cheaper than meat, afterall, and *industry* is built on *profit margins*! The pet food industry exists to line the pockets of the people in the industry. Naive and ignorant consumers (and many veterinarians) have been completely brainwashed. One more thing, did you know that your veterinarian most likely receives incentives and kickbacks for pushing certain brands (think how many vet offices you've seen pushing Hill's. And then think about what a horrible quality "food" Hill's is proven to be).
Additionally, I find it very intriguing that this same debate doesn't exist for wolves. That fact in itself really speaks to the fact that dogs are carnivores. Do you realize wolves are also opportunistic feeders? Wolves eat berries and carrots, too! With wolves, like dogs, the fruits & veggies come out just as undigested as they went in. Why aren't wolves classified as omnivores? The diet of a wolf and a wild dog is *identical*. As is quite common, you are confusing preferred tastes/diets to anatomical definitions, which are generally an indication of best and healthiest diets (not preferred tastes).
Weewoah333 ( talk) 15:39, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure about even including that dogs are arguable carnivores in the article, since the two sources don't exactly seem to be arguing that: one seems to discuss the "inner lives" of dogs and the other classifies dogs in carnivora, which is not to say that they are obligate carnivores. Could we get more reliable sources on this? The only sources I have say they're omnivores while cats are obligate carnivores, and these sources are veterinary textbooks. Is there an equally reputable source arguing otherwise? Faunablues ( talk) 02:00, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Dogs may be meat-eaters, but the typical household pooch is better described as a scavenger than as a predator. But at that, dogs can range (like humans) from vegetarian (by human choice) to 100% carnivorous (traditional Inuit hunter and sled dogs), and still thrive. That suggests that the dog is an omnivore even if it is no less deadly a predator than a cat of like size.-- Pbrower2a ( talk) 16:43, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
St. Bernard dogs are not considered "herding dogs" and Labrador Retrievers are not considered "mastiffs". Please change these examples to breeds that make sense, or unlock the page to allow others to do so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.102.212.191 ( talk) 19:31, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
I've removed a recently added item on claims about health risks to humans caused by the carbon footprint of pet dogs. This was apparently based on a single book written by two architects, and as such was obvious undue weight. -- TS 03:54, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
Attention, I request fast consensus to keep the carbon footprint edits. PLease indicate your preference below. PLease stop editing this addition until consensus is achieved. Please lodge opinions above and clear votes below. Votes lodged in places other than the appropriate suppport/oppose/undecided columns will be ignored. Nothughthomas ( talk) 04:05, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
We don't do "votes" to determine consensus. In particular we don't ignore somebody's opinion simply because they do not wish to participate in a straw poll.
I have already expressed my opinions on this, Nothughthomas. Your arguments above about the Maldives seem to be somewhat shrill and are in danger of being mistaken for parody. -- TS 04:32, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to know what people's feeling is regarding having some mention of the carbon footprint thing somewhere in the article. Is the consensus generally against mentioning it at all, or is the issue specifically with that particular wording in that particular section? I would personally be in favour of including it somewhere, in some form, if an additional reliable source could be found. Thparkth ( talk) 05:24, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
The ecological impact of dogs merits discussion in the article. AS noted by User:Wtmitchell below, there is significant coverage to justify added it to the article. The ultimate goal is to have a comprehensive article on the domestic dog. As such, both negative and positive aspects of dogs need to be discussed. This article is unbalanced discusses the positive aspects more than the negative aspects. Discussing the ecological impact will help balance the article. I think that the an ecological impact subsection should be added to Biology section.
This edit reverted the addition of the following from the article, saying, "rv WP:UNDUE weight
In their 2009 book "Time to Eat the Dog, the Real Guide to Sustainable Living," New Zealand scientists Robert and Brenda Vale charged that a medium-size dog had a carbon footprint of 2.1 acres compared with slightly more than one acre for a standard sport utility vehicle. The claim spurred heated debate between climate change theory proponents and climate change theory skeptics about the efficacy of dogs as pets, with Lester Brown, the president of the Earth Policy Institute noting "there is no question but that pets do exert a claim on resources."
The removed material cited this ABC News article as a supporting source. That article highlights this claim, made in the book Brenda Vale; Robert James Dennis Vale (2009), Time to Eat the Dog?: The Real Guide to Sustainable Living, Thames & Hudson, ISBN 9780500287903.
This Reuters article quotes the book's authors as saying, "We're not actually saying it is time to eat the dog. We're just saying that we need to think about and know the (ecological) impact of some of the things we do and that we take for granted.", and goes on to say that constructing and driving the jeep for a year requires 0.41 hectares of land, while growing and manufacturing a dog's food takes about 0.84 ha -- or 1.1 ha in the case of a large dog such as a German shepherd.
This Vancouver Sun article identifies the Vales as specialists in sustainable living at Victoria University of Wellington. and reports that they urge per owners to to make sure their animal is dual purpose, "... Get a hen, which offsets its impact by laying edible eggs, or a rabbit, prepared to make the ultimate environmental sacrifice by ending up on the dinner table."
This article in the New Zealand Dominion Post further quotes the article as saying,
If you have a German shepherd or similar-sized dog, for example, its impact every year is exactly the same as driving a large car around, ... A lot of people worry about having SUVs but they don't worry about having Alsatians and what we are saying is, well, maybe you should be because the environmental impact ... is comparable.
This article in New Scientist speaks of the book, saying,
To measure the ecological paw, claw and fin-prints of the family pet, the Vales analysed the ingredients of common brands of pet food. They calculated, for example, that a medium-sized dog would consume 90 grams of meat and 156 grams of cereals daily in its recommended 300-gram portion of dried dog food. At its pre-dried weight, that equates to 450 grams of fresh meat and 260 grams of cereal. That means that over the course of a year, Fido wolfs down about 164 kilograms of meat and 95 kilograms of cereals.
It takes 43.3 square metres of land to generate 1 kilogram of chicken per year - far more for beef and lamb - and 13.4 square metres to generate a kilogram of cereals. So that gives him a footprint of 0.84 hectares. For a big dog such as a German shepherd, the figure is 1.1 hectares.
Meanwhile, an SUV - the Vales used a 4.6-litre Toyota Land Cruiser in their comparison - driven a modest 10,000 kilometres a year, uses 55.1 gigajoules, which includes the energy required both to fuel and to build it. One hectare of land can produce approximately 135 gigajoules of energy per year, so the Land Cruiser's eco-footprint is about 0.41 hectares - less than half that of a medium-sized dog.
This Yahoo News article says that New Scientist magazine asked John Barrett at the Stockholm Environment Institute in York, Britain, to calculate eco-pawprints based on his own data. The results were essentially the same, reporting that Barret said, "Owning a dog really is quite an extravagance, mainly because of the carbon footprint of meat".
This article in Idaho Falls Today asks rhetorically, "Should they be taxed for owing a dog? What about other wild animals? How should we measure their contribution to the carbon footprint? Should countries be given carbon credits for eliminating wild animals that put carbon into the environment?"
Another book, Bernan (2008),
"Draft Marine Bill: Oral and written evidence", Draft Marine Bill, Great Britain. Parliament. Joint Committee on the Draft Marine Bill, vol. Volume 2, The Stationery Office, p.
149],
ISBN
9780104013533 {{
citation}}
: |volume=
has extra text (
help), about a bill designed to establish a new UK-wide strategic system of marine planning, says that research shows that the biggest factor influencing where dog owners exercise their dogs is whether or not they can exercise the dog off a lead; if it is not possible to do this in their local area, over 40% have said they would drive elsewhere (that, of course, has implications re the carbon footprint of dogs). That second book, though not targeted at the topic, goes on to discuss health, social, and economic benefits of dog ownership.
WP:UNDUE says, "Neutrality requires that the article should fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by a reliable source, and should do so in proportion to the prominence of each." It looks to me as if this has sufficient visibility in reliable sources to warrant a mention in this article. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 06:39, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Although it is inhumane, the sport of dogfighting has greatly shaped and effected the domestication of dogs, lets not forget that many of the breeds we see today are in existance because of the unnatural selection people used to breed dogs. This is why we see pitbulls, boxers, bull dogs, rot wilers —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.234.98.61 ( talk) 17:16, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
Dendrotek 10:41, 7 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dendrotek ( talk • contribs)
Wait -- so just the one subspecies encapsules all the different shapes and sizes of dogs? That's freaking amazing. -- anon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.160.62.25 ( talk) 22:01, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Dogs have a genetic peculiarity that allows for a much wider variance in traits than other mammals. Thus dogs can be bred for a wider range of traits much quicker than for example horses or cows. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.195.223.201 ( talk) 07:13, 20 August 2009 (UTC) All this talk about carnivores... AHH! Calm down it's life ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.141.166.229 ( talk) 02:47, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
I propose a link to Hearing Dogs for Deaf People, which is already a good article. We should make this link within the section of this article named Working dogs.
I teach about the changing role of the dog in family life so am happy to draft something for these sections - "pets" or "companion animals"? Marj ( talk) 20:09, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
Those sections done. Edits or comments welcomed. Marj ( talk) 02:01, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
A query on the latest edit: The percentage of adopted dogs have increased since the mid 90s from around 25 percent up to 60 to 75 percent around 2004 in many shelters in the United States.[82] What does this mean? That 60-75 percent of dogs going into shelters were previously adopted? Or that 60-75 percent of dogs who go into shelters are subsequently adopted? Or something else? Does the many shelters phrase imply that this is not an overall figure for all shelters, but simply the experience of some? Barnabypage ( talk) 16:44, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
An article on dogs and shelters in Australia - may have useful info, if somone wants to follow it up http://www.animalsandsociety.org/assets/library/100_jaws070102.pdf Marj ( talk) 20:20, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
The line "despite evidence that a dog does not live in a pack relationship with humans" is misleading. The article that was referenced for this statement only theorizes that domesticated dogs do not behave like captive and non-captive wolves. The article provides no evidence that all domesticated dogs do not have pack relationships with humans. I suggest this blanket statement be removed or reworded so that it does not present facts without evidence. Alea098 ( talk) 19:46, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
{{editsemiprotected}} I think that it would be also interesting to mention to very large "livestock dogs" in "predation" part because opposite to what is mentioned in this part, there are also some breeds such as "Kangal dog" which guards the livestock against wolves and other wild animals. The Kangal dog is extensively used in Anatolia to protect the sheeps from wild animals and also they are successfully used against cheetahs in Africa.
Bellekci ( talk) 00:26, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
Not done
{{editsemiprotected}}
The scientific name of dog is CANIS CANIS and the scientific name of wolf is CANIS LUPUS. There is not such a thing as CANIS LUPUS FAMILIARIS.
69.168.144.133 ( talk) 02:05, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
Done
death
Hoser43 ( talk) 16:02, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
Not done
I propose that a new section in this article or a new article be created on laws that relate to dogs. The dog license article only deals with licensing laws in selected western countries. Dog laws also cover negligence, leash requirements, breeding, dog attacks, noise pollution, etc.
One website with extensive information on dog bites and applicable laws (in the USA, and also relevant to Common Law) is [14]. There should of course be a list of dog laws by country.
Also please note that the article on Dog attacks, which has a brief section on legal issues (US only) is not included in the main Dog template. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.47.238.225 ( talk) 07:48, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
Why did he decide to call it "Familiaris"? I assumed at first that he meant "familiar dog" as in "the dog that everyone already knows/thinks about first, but could it have been "family dog", as in the familiar English term "family dog" or "family dog" as in "the whole 'family' of breeds, or some such? Readers of this article want to know, and I would like something to call it in Engish to distinguish it from "Canis lupus Dingo". Chrisrus ( talk) 13:31, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
Adjective familiāris: 1.of or pertaining to servants 2.of or pertaining to a household or family 3.familiar, intimate, friendly 4.of or belonging to one's own self, country, etc. 5.customary, habitual 6.fitting, appropriate. Marj ( talk) 01:07, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
I don't think there is any record of the particular meaning Linnaeus was intending. Familiaris appears regularly in species names Certhia familiaris Common Treecreeper. Marj ( talk) 19:51, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
Recently, this article seemed to be just about one subspecies, Canis lupus familaris. Now, it seems to be moving in the direction of being about both C.l.familaris and Canis lupus dingo, a subspecies union (clade) marked by Mammal Species of the World as "Domestic Dog". I do not object to this, but at some point the taxobox and lead sentence should be changed to reflect this fact. Chrisrus ( talk) 13:59, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
Casino Gold ( English: Dingo) Wolf species one. Found only at Australia only A a science thatCanis lupus dingoGold Casino is the only wolf, only it looks like Dog House most Therefore assumed that the ancestors of Gold Casino. Descendants of the dog house East Asia (including Thailand a) by one in Australia about 3000-4000 years ago when Gold Casino classified as animals belong to only one in the Family Dog. (Canidae) found in Australia.
These additions are removed to the Discussion page, pending a decision on where to best place them in the article.
Further discussion welcomed. Marj ( talk) 23:06, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Removing these edits pending discussion, rather than deleting them, is a courtesy to the editor, and a separate issue from the relationships between the Australian dingo, the wild dogs in Thailand, New Guinea and America that are being grouped with the Australian dingo, and the pet dog. Marj ( talk) 02:16, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
I think this sentence needs to be changed, at least to exclude the part about wolf dominance hierarchies:
"Feral dogs show little of the complex social structure or dominance hierarchy present in wolf packs"
Leading wolf researcher David Mech has spent a good deal of time recanting the whole "alpha wolf" meme that he accidentally started, based on observation of artificially-created wolf packs in captive pens.
Here's what he now says: Rather than viewing a wolf pack as a group of animals organized with a “top dog” that fought its way to the top, or a male-female pair of such aggressive wolves, science has come to understand that most wolf packs are merely family groups formed exactly the same way as human families are formed. That is, maturing male and female wolves from different packs disperse, travel around until they find each other and an area vacant of other wolves but with adequate prey, court, mate, and produce their own litter of pups.
More information here: [16]
I'd like to point out that, contrary to popular belief, the term, "Three Dog Night" did not originate with the Australian Aborigines, as stated in the article. It, in fact, was coined by the Inuit, who needed three dogs to stay warm in their harsh environment. Dingos, the Aborigine dog cited, are too wild and aggressive to be used as living blankets, and are known for attacking owners, people, and babies. Huskies, however, are not (though they have been known to attack running babies).
To put it shortly, the term, "Three Dog Night" did NOT originate with the Aborigines as stated in the article, but with the Inuit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Welshboy1991 ( talk • contribs) 02:59, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Well, there's actually not that much reference to it online, but in a book my mother has on the Inuit, it mentions that it is not Aboriginal, but Alaskan in fact. I have to find the book, but for now, here's a link: http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/28/messages/633.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Welshboy1991 ( talk • contribs) 22:47, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Well, looks like you're right after all. Well, until I find more accurate evidence to support my view, I guess we'll say that it is still unclear who created the term. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Welshboy1991 ( talk • contribs) 01:58, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
This is way too USA centric, and recentist. Rabies is not even mentioned. It still kills thousands of people each year in India and Africa. Steve Dufour ( talk) 13:22, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
First of all, this article is excellent. I just have a tiny quibble with something I maybe notice as a person who spends a lot of time editing disambiguation pages for animal words.
This part here that says "A few animals have "dog" in their common names but are not canids, such as the prairie dog and the dog fish." While the prairie dog is a good example of this and may be necessary to say, the dog fish example seems to be speaking to a person who doesn't speak English, which is the only thing we are supposed to assume is true of the readers.
Anyone who speaks English instinctively knows that an animal called, for example, a duck eagle, is an eagle named after ducks for some reason. The same rules of English tell us that if an eagle duck is not really a duck, some disambiguation is in order, but no one has to be told that it's not really an eagle. Think about milk chocolate and chocolate milk, for example. One is the head of the noun phrase and the other is a modifier. This is why the case of prairie dog is listed on the dog (disambiguation) page, but dog fish and dogwood are not.
Therefore, I would like to edit it so that it reads:
"A few animals, such as the prairie dog, have the word "dog" in their common names but are not canids."
Done
The article says: "As the modern understanding of genetics developed, humans began to intentionally breed dogs for a wide range of specific traits." They were doing this in ancient Egypt. It does not depend on modern understanding of genetics, athough this helped the process. Steve Dufour ( talk) 13:17, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
The article is locked, so we cannot just edit it. The talk page, however, does provide a nice forum for working out just what it should say. I think it would be simplest to describe it all in the same place (perhaps a simple sentence as an in-line list), but as a series of developments: 1st: unintentional human selection. Humans just get along with, raise, and promote the propagation of individuals with traits they like. This could have gone on for over 10,000 years with substantial results. 2nd: intentional breeding, without knowledge of evolution or genetics other than just figuring out that traits are passed on. 3rd: Artificial selection that uses understanding of genetics (modern breeders).
Here is a stab: Humans cared for dogs that had desirable traits, and eventually began to intentionally breed dogs for a wide range of specific traits 68.106.25.212 ( talk) 06:30, 5 July 2010 (UTC).
Horowitz'a Inside of a Dog pulls together a lot of the research on the domestication of dogs Marj ( talk) 01:46, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
Should the page perhaps include a word or two on the dissenting idea that the dog is not a domesticated wolf after all, but was ever its own species? Obviously people love to challenge accepted ideas, but there appears to be little real evidence for wolf origins – genetically and morphologically dogs are closer to other canids, etc. See linked article:
http://newguinea-singing-dog-conservation.org/Tidbits/OriginOfTheDog.pdf
Perhaps this matter comes up all the time on this talk page. If so, I apologize. Bossk-Office ( talk) 13:33, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
I have some concerns about an article that misrepresents facts right from the introduction - "The dog origin alternatives are: (1) an origin from golden jackal (Canis aureus) (Lorenz 1954)" when Lorenz actually believed that some dog breeds descended from wolf-like ancestors and other from jackal-like canids. He himself preferred the wolf-breeds as he called them. Marj ( talk) 01:52, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
{{ editsemiprotected}} The last paragraph of the "Health risks to humans" reads as follows: "There were 1,122 dog attack incidents reported by all New South Wales councils from 1 January 2010 to 31 March 2010. This number included harassment and bites by dogs on people and animals. The Staffordshire Bull Terrier was responsible for the largest number of attacks in New South Wales in the early part of 2010.[76]"
What relevance does dog attack statistics for a particular state in Australia and for a particular (and short) time period have in a general worldwide article on dogs? I believe this paragraph should be deleted.
Amace81 ( talk) 10:41, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
When 6.0 goes final, we might want to mention 🐕, 🐩, and 🐶. ⇔ ChristTrekker 18:54, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
You may not have a subscription to Science News, but I do and I think it's ok if I quote the just one line or two of this: http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/57390/title/Who_reined_the_dogs_in
"The largest-ever genetic family tree of dogs and wolves traces dogs’ domestic origin to the region, an international group of researchers reports online March 17 in Nature."
You really should check it out, but what you really need is someone with a subscription to Nature and the expertise to summarize it here. I’ll give you my reading, for what it’s worth:
We now know that most, but not all, come from the Middle East or Europe; that for the most part the old genetic evidence that indicated they might have come from China, they have enough to say now that that was wrong. East Asian dog breeds are not older, as we thought, as this article says.
This doesn't mean the search for the first dog is over, but it narrows it down a bit. The way I see it, it makes sense that the they are more primitive, East Asian breeds and dingoes, because they’re younger, not older. See, they evolved recently, so they haven't had time to come as far away from the proto-wolf-dog as, for example, my Spaniel Casey, at least in part. That’s how I make sense of it in my mind, anyway.
The old work was done on mitochondrial DNA only, as this article says. This new stuff is on DNA scattered across the whole genome, so is clearer, and it jives better with the archeological evidence in the article. The article is presenting them as contradictory, East Asia from the mDNA, West Asia/Europe for the archeological. This will help the article harmonize that, it seems to me. Asian breeds aren't as genetically diverse and have a more recent common ancestor, is what the article seems to say, so that means the articles about the Inus, Chinese Shar Pei, and chow chow, etc., as well as those that fall into the category of Canis lupus dingo; the Telomian, Borneo dog, the Australian Dingo, New Guinea Singing Dog, etc, those we think of as less domesticated; it seems like they are primitive because they were still interbreeding with Chinese wolves, still intermediate Wolf/dog forms, when they were genetically isolated as breeds or varieties or what have you, landraces maybe.
“It makes sense to me that the earliest domestic dogs would breed with wolves when the distribution of the two overlapped, which is what probably happened in East Asia,”
It warns that this not only does ‘’’not’’’ mean that they've found the exact moment of domestication, but reason dictates there's a limit to how precise we're ever going to get to a very exact date because:
“It was probably a pretty fluid interchange for hundreds or thousands of years between protodogs and wolves,”
The new tree, I can’t see it in Nature, but as I understand the way this article describes it, it can help many articles across the Dog project. They say it shows, for example, that the basic dog types, terriers and hounds and shepherds and such, are being shown to be real genetic realities. They aren't just dogs that were created more than once from different stock. They have much more detail about this in the Nature (journal) article than we'd previously known, if someone has a subscription to Nature can see the new, more detailed, dog family tree. So it doesn't jive perfectly with the American Kennel Club and so on's "taxonomies" of dog, but it does confirm much of it as genetic, not just on job or physical features, the article says. Chrisrus ( talk) 04:54, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
The origins of the phrase "man's best friend" is discussed at Old Drum. Some mention should probably be here -- especially since the phrase is used twice including one toward the lead. Americasroof ( talk) 19:35, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Under the heading Work, the list of main working breeds is missing some very key working breeds, including the Belgian Malinois, German Shepherd Dog, Labrador Retriever, and Border Collie. I believe these breeds should be included given their prominent use in herding, military/police work, search and rescue and service work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Workingk9 ( talk • contribs) 18:16, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
I agree that they should be included, but there is already a rather large list of working dogs. Maybe the list should be modified somehow? RoseSoul 04:01, 14 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by RoseSoul ( talk • contribs)
Leonberger has to be on the list if Pir. and Newf. are there. Leo = P + N + St.B. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.156.63.59 ( talk) 22:46, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
Dogs are carnivores whose wolf ancestors lived in packs. The statement: "Dogs are pack animals..." should be reworded. The reference to the former use of dogs as pack animals by Apaches and Navajo does not make the dog a pack animal any more than strapping a harness on a house cat and letting it carry a day's ration of water and cat food while one drags it about on a leash makes a house cat a pack animal. -- Fartherred ( talk) 11:25, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Skylos = Skilled, Skill = Ability O A'dis Eskileusthi, Doulevo san skilos Skyladiko, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.84.55.149 ( talk) 22:55, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Skylos = Skilled, Skill = Ability O A'dis Eskileusthi, Doulevo san skilos Skyladiko, Skyvala, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.84.55.149 ( talk) 22:57, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
I edited the following sentence in the intro to the article from:
"This versatility, more than almost any other known animal, has given them the nickname "Man's best friend" in the western world."
to:
This versatility, more than probably any other known animal, has given them the nickname "Man's best friend" in the western world.
I think the first version implies that there is some animal with greater versatility with regards to being of value to humans, and the article doesn't suggest that.
Trolle3000 [talk] 20:52, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
I don't really like the name for the Biology section, because most of the article deals with what I would consider to be aspects of dog biology. The two sections before Biology deal with evolution and taxonomy, which are both subfields of biology. The Biology section basically deals with a bunch of random aspects of dog biology that don't fit into any other section. I don't know what else to call this section, but the current name just seems odd. Any thoughts? Is it just me? -- MYCETEAE - talk 07:21, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
Interesting observation, MYCETEAE. For grins, I went and looked at a couple of other like pages, i.e. Cat, Rabbit, Horse, Bird, and none has a Biology section. I like the Cat page breakdown. Maybe this could be reworked similarly? Bob98133 ( talk) 13:07, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
Please change "John Katz" to "Jon Katz" (in both the text and the reference) because that's how he spells his name. (see
http://www.amazon.com/New-Work-Dogs-Tending-Family/dp/0375508147 for verification). Thanks!
Cwa1974 (
talk)
01:49, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
Am I the only one that finds it odd that the German Sheppard is not listed as a working dog?
http://www.gsdca.org/index.php http://www.akc.org/breeds/german_shepherd_dog/ http://www.gsscc.ca/
Defendertech ( talk) 15:04, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
Defendertech ( talk) 15:04, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
Do dogs belong to the chordata phylum, because the chordata phylum consists of animal who have a notochord and lose them later on in life or vice versa, I think dogs belong to the Phylum Vertebratae because they have the notochord(Vertebreal Column actuall) throughout their life, I am just a ninth grade student and I am not exactly sure and i would like to know Thank You —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.229.235.38 ( talk) 18:21, 5 December 2010 (UTC) You are absolutely correct; any animal with a backbone belongs to that phylum. Chrisrus ( talk) 03:33, 18 February 2011 (UTC) hey whats up guyx? my name is Shabanna and i am from Mars. Remmeber? we met at the mall? OMG tim was looking hilarious.. lol
The recent edit adding this classification to the infobox seems to me to be the wrong way round - the subspecies may very well not be distinct, but no domestic dog has ever been classified as canis lupus dingo. -- Ian Dalziel ( talk) 20:08, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
asain people eat dogs
This article is currently listed as a Good Article nominee, but the nomination was done by an editor who has not contributed much to the article and was not discussed here first; usually a bad sign. I might potentially be interested in doing a review, and my initial take is that the article is within shooting range of GA level but needs fixing in some ways, so I would like to find out whether there are contributors who are able and willing to participate in a possibly extended GA process. (If not, I think it might be best to remove the nom before a review is started.) Looie496 ( talk) 22:27, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Looie496 (talk) 19:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
It looks like a review was accidentally started by somebody else -- hopefully I can take it up without breaking anything. I would like to go through the article one part of a time, adding points as I go. My emphasis will be on whether the article is comprehensive, accurate, and understandable. I'll start with the lede:
I may as I go on suggest adding something or other to the lede, but those are the main points I see at present. Looie496 ( talk) 19:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
What's the status of this review on either side? No comments in nearly a month. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 16:04, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
I would like to point out a factual inconsistency in the second introduction paragraph. The "modern understanding of genetics" was developed in the beginning of the 20th century after the work of Gregor Mendel was rediscovered. People had been experimenting with dogs for millenia by that point, and while I do not have the empirical evidence on hand, the examples used are varieties that were developed well before the modern understanding of genetics per se. I think a more approriate way to structure this would be to say "as people began to experiment with breeding". Sorry for the anecdotal nature of my suggestion, but I think it stands to reason that most of our dog breeds were developed earlier than 1900. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.64.0.171 ( talk) 13:48, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to see no one has picked up on the above well written post, and edited the article. According to Daniel Boorstein (former Librarian of Congress) in his book "The Discoverers", the discoveries of Gregor Mendl were ignored by Western Science, and died with him. In the 1890s, three separate biologists rediscovered Mendlian principles (most notably the principle behind recessive genes) and published papers that made the knowledge part of the scientific canon. So the writer above is correct to assert that knowledge of these principles began to have practical application in the early 20th century. There is no need to discuss the second point made above, that many of the breeds we know today were created by dog breeders in centuries well previous to the 1890s. You can see that I am opinionated, but not versed in the editing conventions of Wikipedia, so will some qualified person please correct the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.163.115.114 ( talk) 04:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
Over the 15,000 year span the dog had been domesticated, it diverged into only a handful of landraces, groups of similar animals whose morphology and behavior have been shaped by environmental factors and functional roles. As the modern understanding of genetics developed, humans began to intentionally breed dogs for a wide range of specific traits. Through this process, the dog has developed into hundreds of varied breeds, and shows more behavioral and morphological variation than any other land mammal.[12] For example, height measured to the withers ranges from a few inches in the Chihuahua to a few feet in the Irish Wolfhound; color varies from white through grays (usually called "blue'") to black, and browns from light (tan) to dark ("red" or "chocolate") in a wide variation of patterns; coats can be short or long, coarse-haired to wool-like, straight, curly, or smooth.[13] It is common for most breeds to shed this coat.
I hope you can help me incorporate this into the article:
According to Laurie Corbet's The Dingo in Australia and in Asia, ordinary street dogs in Thailand and places all over not only southeast Asia but also anywhere the Austronesian {please click, that word may not refer to what you might be thinking} cultural/ethno-linguistic area and places they traded or shipwrecked during the prehistoric diaspora of the Austronesian seafaring people: from the mainlanf to the Indonesian and Phillipine archepelagoes and many other places as far-flung as Taiwan and Madagascar - all over these places researchers have found street dogs and such wandering about the cities and chained up in junkyards and such, which are taxonomically identical to the Australian Dingo, and so they were forced to accept them into the taxon dingo formerly reserved for the Australian native dog, only.
The Australian Dingo's ancestor arrived about one thousand years ago on an Austronesian ship, maybe traders or failed settlers or survivors of a shipwreck or some such, and from there attached themselves to the wholely different Australian native people or simply went feral, eventually becoming more of a wild animal than the domesticated domestic dog that they had been. So it turns out that the native Australians hadn't brought the dogs with them when they came after all: some maybe fourteen thousand years before that they must have been dogless. Experts have recently figured this out, so many still believe that the Aus dingo got there with the first settlers, but that turns out not to have been true. This makes sense because the new understanding is that the dog wasn't domesticated or evolved anywhere until agriculture and larger settlements came about, not during hunter-gatherer times as also used to be thought and still assumed by non-experts.
The reason dingo the taxon hasn't been therefore demoted along with "Canis aquaticus" and the rest - the reason would, as you suggest, indeed be a good addition to the article, but none of my sources address this question, other than MSW3's brief and to my mind lame excuse about getting the correct alignment of taxonomic synonyms and the implication that they'll revisit the decision next time around. So your request that this be explained is a good one but a tough one. Actually, it bugs me, too, so welcome to my world; I'm happy not to be alone in seeing this problem. They seem to be pointing to a sort of taxonomic inertia, tradition, or some such. An expert should review the clause and explain that in the article, but to my mind the answer doesn't seem to be out there in a way that would be citable except the apologetic "alignment of synonyms" bit which isn't going to satisfy a careful reader any more than it does you or me, so I hope we could still get a good article status anyway by explaining this odd moment we inhabit in the intellectual history of thought on dogs in as clear and appropriate way as possible, and it's not our fault if the greatest experts themselves seem ambivilent and reluctant or at a loss to explain themselves.
But anyway, MSW3 says that the domestic dog is a subspecies of C lupus that includes familiaris with the dingo "provisionally separate" and that other old synonyms like "aquaticus" are not valid taxons because they are the result of human breeding and taxonomy doesn't go there anymore. Corbett says C.l.dingo is an ordinary southeast Asian dog that was adopted by Austronesians and spread through areas they settled or contacted, including Australia where the dogs landed somehow went and went feral or wild more recently than originally assumed and still widely believed, and that they were given the taxon dingo back in the days when Spaniels and Mastiffs and such each had their own taxons but that hasn't been changed in the case of dingoes for reasons that are hard to defend and called "provisional". Chrisrus ( talk) 07:48, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
the dog is chewing on the pig foot not eating it —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.120.47.18 ( talk) 15:59, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
kiss my anthea
{{
edit semi-protected}}
The senses section of the article on dogs is somewhat lacking. As I have had significant experience researching the vision of Canines I pulled out my resource material and expanded on the section on sight. I also would like to expand on the other sections such as those dealing with hearing and smell, however, I do not feel I have performed adequate research to be able to meaningfully edit these sections. Below I have included the sight section of the page including additions and their respective references.:
Like most mammals, dogs are dichromats and have color vision equivalent to red-green color blindness in humans (deuteranopia). [3] [4] [5] [6] Dogs are less sensitive to differences in grey shades than humans and also can detect brightness at about half the accuracy of humans. [7]
The dog's visual system has evolved to aid proficient hunting. [3] While a dog's visual acuity is poor (that of a poodle's has been estimated to translate to a Snellen rating of 20/75 [3]), their visual discrimination for moving objects is very high; dogs have been shown to be able to discriminate between humans (e.g. identifying their owner) range of between 800-900 m, however this range decrease to 500-600m if the object is stationary. [3] Dogs have a temporal resolution of between 60-70 hz which explains why many dogs struggle to watch television as modern screens are optimized for humans at 50-60 hz. [8] Dogs can detect detect a change in movement that exists in a single diopter of space within their eye. (humans require a change of between 10-20 diopters. Comparatively dogs can detect movement that is up to 20 times subtler than a human. [9] [10]
As crepuscular hunters, dogs often rely on their vision in low light situations: they have very large pupils, a high density of rods in the fovea, an increased flicker rate, and a tapetum lucidum. [3] The tapetum is a reflective surface behind the retina that reflects light back to give the photoreceptors a second chance to catch the photons. There is also a relationship between body size and overall diameter of the eye. A range of 9.5 and 11.6 mm can be found between various breeds of dogs. This 20% variance can be substantial and is associated as an adaptation toward superior night vision. [11]
The eyes of different breeds of dogs have different shapes, dimensions, and retina configurations. [12] Many long-nosed breeds have a "visual streak" – a wide foveal region that runs across the width of the retina and gives them a very wide field of excellent vision. Some long-muzzled breeds, particularly the sighthounds, have a field of vision up to 270° (compared to 180° for humans). Short-nosed breeds, on the other hand, have an "area centralis": a central patch with up to three times the density of nerve endings as the visual streak, giving them detailed sight much more like a human's. Some broad-headed breeds with short noses have a field of vision similar to that of humans. [4] [5] Most breeds have good vision, but some show a genetic predisposition for myopia – such as Rottweilers, where one out of every two has been found to be myopic. [3] Dogs also have a greater divergence of the eye axis than humans allowing them to rotate their pupils farther in any direction. The divergence of the eye axis of dogs ranges from 12-25° depending on the breed. [13]
Experimentation has proven that dogs can distinguish between complex visual images such as that of a cube or a prism. Dogs also show attraction to static visual images such as the silhouette of a dog on a screen, their own reflections, or videos of dogs, however, their interest declines sharply once they are unable to make social contact with the image. [14]
Rcooper102 ( talk) 14:31, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
The third sentence of "As pets" is patently inaccurate, as anyone knows who remembers the fifties, when doghouses were largely unused, or Asta, who lived in Nick and Nora's apartment. Would some researcher more energetic than I please rewrite accordingly? C. Cerf ( talk) 20:44, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
The article states that "wild dogs... are apex predators". It then immediately goes on to list all the animals that prey on wild dogs: wolves, hyaenas, big cats, crocodiles etc. How can animals with multiple predators be considered in any way an apex predator? In what ecosystems are wild dogs apex predators? 111.220.201.171 ( talk) 13:11, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
I'm adding this talk page section after seeing this edit, which changed an assertion in the lead section which previously read, "... these attributes have earned dogs a unique relationship with humans, despite being potentially dangerous apex predators." to read instead as "... these attributes have given dogs a relationship with humans that has enabled them to become one of the most successful species on the planet today." The source cited to support both versions of that sentence is the book Ádám Miklósi (2007), Dog behaviour, evolution, and cognition, Oxford University Press, ISBN 9780199295852. Page 1 of that book says, "This book is about the biological study of dog behavior, based on the programme summarized so clearly by Tinnbergen in 1963. ...". I don't know whether or not the cited source supports either or both versions of that assertion, because the citation doesn't give a page numbered reference in this 274 page book. (I am a bit bemused by seeing "programme summarized" there -- an interesting juxtaposition of British and American spellings)
I see that the changed-to version of the quoted snippet echoes a point made in the article body -- citing this book in support without specifying a page. Perhaps the Ref in the lead is not needed.
Looking at the cite, I counted 16 collected Refs -- 16 instances where this source is cited in support of an assertion without providing a page numbere. Most or all of these should provide page numbers or ranges.
At one point, this source is cited in support of the assertion, "... the gray wolf, is the common ancestor for all breeds of domestic dogs." This google books search turns up a snippet on page 266 which says, "DNA profiles of the eastern Canadian wolf and the red wolf provide evidence for a common evolutionary history independent of the gray wolf." The complete text for that page is not previewable, and I don't know whether or not this is a contradiction, but a page number where the book supports the assertion should be identified.
Another cite repeats the "successful species" assertion spoken of earlier, without specifying a page number. I don't know whether or not the source does support that -- I do see that page 238 says that the ancestor of the dog was a very successful species.
I've added page number info to some previously unnumbered cites of this source. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 01:16, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
{{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |coauthors=
ignored (|author=
suggested) (
help)
{{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |coauthors=
ignored (|author=
suggested) (
help)