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Why "Djemal"? Cemal is Turkish name and he is Turkish. Ayasi 11:17, 24 February 2007 (UTC) Jamal Pasha.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.216.240.70 ( talk) 11:04, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
Ahmed Djemal →
Ahmed Cemal — {{{3}}}
Ceberrut 06:27, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. -- Stemonitis 13:42, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
"Due to the success of the Bolshevik Revolution, Djemal travelled to Tbilisi" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Slntssssn ( talk • contribs) 22:57, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
Its a fork, merge and redirect it. VartanM ( talk) 07:27, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
One mistake I frequently encounter in Wikipedia is the proper noun translations. Almost all words including the titles can be translated. But proper nouns represent unique entity and are not translatable, provided of course, they use the same alphabet. Take an example of Joseph. This name has many variants in different languages: Josef, Joe, Yusuf etc. But body (almost nobody) tries to translate Joseph when it is used as a proper noun. Joseph Haydn (composer) or Joe Biden are never translated. (Wouldn’t it be funny to have an article named Joe Haydn or Yusuf Haydn ?) But unfortunatelly the topic of this very article is Ahmed Djemal instead of Ahmet Cemal. The contributer’s rationale is that the encyclopaedia is in English. Lets think twice. I think the article should be moved to Ahmet Cemal. Nedim Ardoğa ( talk)
The discussion on the names and spelling sooner or later breaches the limits of reason and common sense. One wonders what motivations are in play. Ahmet Cemal is mostly likely exactly how the man himself pronounced his name, but unfortunately there are no sound records. More significantly, volumes and volumes literature and references in modern Turkish will refer to his name exactly as Cemal. You will not find a Djemal in any modern Turkish source. That name has never been spelled in that manner by any Ottoman, Turk or Arab at any time in history by any alphabet. Do I need to remind that Turkish alphabet is Latin? These seem to be the same folks who insist that name of the Turkish island Bozcaada in Aegean is actually named Tenedos! Try it, it is most amazing! Same people who are still confused about Istanbul vs Constantinople probably.
Of course a lot more significant is the fact that this is an extremely poorly written article on a very important historical figure. One can not even follow his ranks his career or the offices he held. Many writers were too busy promoting their own nationalistic agendas it seems. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.241.153.82 ( talk) 20:47, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved per request. - GTBacchus( talk) 01:03, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
Ahmed Djemal →
Djemal Pasha – per
WP:COMMONNAME:
GoogleBooks Ngram Viewer comparison.
Takabeg (
talk) 07:41, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
This is the "same case" with Enver Pasha. Takabeg ( talk) 10:19, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
After the first sentence [A military court in Turkey accused Djemal of persecuting Arab subjects of the Empire, and sentenced him to death in absentia.] I've added this: But these courts were considered travesty of justice by the Allied Powers [6] = Revisiting the Armenian Genocide by Guenter Lewy. Chonanh ( talk) 03:04, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
the article states that he was killed by armenians "in retribution for his role in the Armenian Genocide" but doesn't say what his contribution/role was - according to sources it was a leading one.-- Severino ( talk) 12:18, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Djemal Pasha article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Why "Djemal"? Cemal is Turkish name and he is Turkish. Ayasi 11:17, 24 February 2007 (UTC) Jamal Pasha.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.216.240.70 ( talk) 11:04, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
Ahmed Djemal →
Ahmed Cemal — {{{3}}}
Ceberrut 06:27, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. -- Stemonitis 13:42, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
"Due to the success of the Bolshevik Revolution, Djemal travelled to Tbilisi" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Slntssssn ( talk • contribs) 22:57, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
Its a fork, merge and redirect it. VartanM ( talk) 07:27, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
One mistake I frequently encounter in Wikipedia is the proper noun translations. Almost all words including the titles can be translated. But proper nouns represent unique entity and are not translatable, provided of course, they use the same alphabet. Take an example of Joseph. This name has many variants in different languages: Josef, Joe, Yusuf etc. But body (almost nobody) tries to translate Joseph when it is used as a proper noun. Joseph Haydn (composer) or Joe Biden are never translated. (Wouldn’t it be funny to have an article named Joe Haydn or Yusuf Haydn ?) But unfortunatelly the topic of this very article is Ahmed Djemal instead of Ahmet Cemal. The contributer’s rationale is that the encyclopaedia is in English. Lets think twice. I think the article should be moved to Ahmet Cemal. Nedim Ardoğa ( talk)
The discussion on the names and spelling sooner or later breaches the limits of reason and common sense. One wonders what motivations are in play. Ahmet Cemal is mostly likely exactly how the man himself pronounced his name, but unfortunately there are no sound records. More significantly, volumes and volumes literature and references in modern Turkish will refer to his name exactly as Cemal. You will not find a Djemal in any modern Turkish source. That name has never been spelled in that manner by any Ottoman, Turk or Arab at any time in history by any alphabet. Do I need to remind that Turkish alphabet is Latin? These seem to be the same folks who insist that name of the Turkish island Bozcaada in Aegean is actually named Tenedos! Try it, it is most amazing! Same people who are still confused about Istanbul vs Constantinople probably.
Of course a lot more significant is the fact that this is an extremely poorly written article on a very important historical figure. One can not even follow his ranks his career or the offices he held. Many writers were too busy promoting their own nationalistic agendas it seems. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.241.153.82 ( talk) 20:47, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved per request. - GTBacchus( talk) 01:03, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
Ahmed Djemal →
Djemal Pasha – per
WP:COMMONNAME:
GoogleBooks Ngram Viewer comparison.
Takabeg (
talk) 07:41, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
This is the "same case" with Enver Pasha. Takabeg ( talk) 10:19, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
After the first sentence [A military court in Turkey accused Djemal of persecuting Arab subjects of the Empire, and sentenced him to death in absentia.] I've added this: But these courts were considered travesty of justice by the Allied Powers [6] = Revisiting the Armenian Genocide by Guenter Lewy. Chonanh ( talk) 03:04, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
the article states that he was killed by armenians "in retribution for his role in the Armenian Genocide" but doesn't say what his contribution/role was - according to sources it was a leading one.-- Severino ( talk) 12:18, 25 September 2013 (UTC)