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What happened to Kramer's theory that Dilmun is further out than Bahrain? Ancient texts call it "the place where the sun rises" which would indicate that it lies east of Sumer, not south. Furthermore, kings like Ur-Nanshe brag about receiving tribute from its "far lands". This brag seems to indicate a fair military accomplishment. Although Bahrain may have been difficult to reach with limited maritime technology, it isn't much further from the port towns than northern Assyria. What is the basis for the claim that Meluhha is the Indus Valley civilization? Unless there is some recent scholarship of which I am unaware, I think this is still an open question. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.174.107.159 ( talk) 02:26, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
The following historical assessment is claimed by a prophet of biblical inerrancy to reflect some personal point-of-view: After its actual decline Dilmun developed such a stylized mythology as a garden of exotic perfections that it appears to have influenced the story of the Garden of Eden. In a reverse process, literal-minded interpreters have sometimes tried to establish an Edenic garden at Dilmun. There are two statements here, which apparently both need to be expanded upon, for readers who have never previously encountered this familiar material. -- Wetman 19:21, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
If it were a paradise for Utnapishtim, I surmise it might have suffered eco damage or at any rate ecological change since. Is there archeological or fossil etc. evidence that the island was previously more lush?Thanks, Rich 20:25, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Answer: Yes! See German wp. for its artesian wells; see Geoffrey BIBBY: Dilmun - Rowohlt, Reinbek 1973: Climate was by far wetter in the IIIrd and IInd millennium.
External link or links have recently been deleted by User:Calton as "horrible Tripod pages which add little information, are full of ads, and fail WP:EL standards." No better external links were substituted. Readers may like to judge these deleted links for themselves, by opening Page history. -- Wetman 15:00, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
The first contact of the area with Southern Mesopotamia is attested during the Ubaid period, with the finds of numerous sites showing the importation of the ine Ubaid were pottery. Prior to this period, shellfish middens attest to the presence of semi-perminent settlements of hunter-gatherer-fisherfolk of the Arabian bifacial industry tradition.
ine? bifacial? HUH?!? -- 69.12.157.118 22:16, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
"Bifacial" refers to a biface, a chipped stone tool class with an archaeological record going back tens of thousands of years. Different styles or manufacturing methods are used to typify different populations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.244.79.51 ( talk) 16:21, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Tylos should not direct to Dilmun as they were two different periods - Tylos was what Bahrain was known as by Alexander the Great and the Greeks. It needs a new page and the link removed. Dilmun ( talk) 21:50, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
"To date (2008) archaeology has failed to find a site in existence from 3300 B.C.(Uruk IV) to 556 B.C.(Neo-Babylonian Era) when Dilmun (Telmun) appears in texts." I find this statement puzzling, because Barbar Temple has been dated to 3000 B.C... Moon Oracle ( talk) 20:56, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
My recollection via Bibby is that older remains eta 4000BC were inaccessible eg at the Tell at Tarut. Secondly, I note only one reference to changes in sea-level to around 6000bp - The maps which show the available land-area into the current sea is significant. is this worth a considered answer? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nojoking ( talk • contribs) 18:23, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
Archaeology of the Arabian Gulf, although it generally presupposes the Bahrain hypothesis. — LlywelynII 08:41, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
Further sources: de.wikipedia and fr.wikipedia - they both would well bolster en.wp's information. - Nuremberg - Ángel.García 131.188.254.13 ( talk) 19:41, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
The notorious editwarrior User: Til Eulenspiegel reverts the following edit:
If this is reverted again I shall ask for a third opinion without fruitless struggling with this notorious editor.-- Wetman ( talk) 00:28, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
All the names you mention in the article on Dilmun are either Arabian or names of civilizations that prevailed in that particular area at the time. Despite all that you write, "The Persian Gulf" without any consideration for the Arabs who lived on both sides of the Gulf until the "Persian" empire's expansion and their occupation of the region to the east of the Gulf. The Persians changed the names of many places and isles in the Gulf, either entirely to give them a Persian character, or to suit their way of pronunciation. Examples of the former would be Muhammara محمّرة (which is now Khurumsheher), Khafajiya خفاجية, Sirb El Thahab سرب الذهب(Serbilzahab, while the latter can clearly be seen in names like Ahwaz أحواز(which is basically the plural of hawz حوز, a property or a piece of land owned by someone), Kish كيش (Originally, it is the name of the isle Oum Qais or Kais أم قيس).Until now you can see Arabian uniform in certain places over there. The problem is the persistence in provoking the Arabs and using the term "Persian Gulf". It should take its name from the Arabian environment, thus the Arabian Gulf. Any logic why it shouldn't?
Jamil Hamada — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.211.102.69 ( talk) 19:55, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
Very surprising that the name of Bibby is missing and a reference to his books is not given. 81.14.57.28 ( talk) 14:48, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
Geoffrey BIBBY is an archaeologist who personally explored Dilmun.
Bibliography: (de) Geoffrey Bibby, Dilmun. Die Entdeckung der ältesten Hochkultur. Rowohlt, Reinbek 1973 ( ISBN 3-498-00440-9) ; trad. fr. : Dilmoun. La découverte de la plus ancienne civilisation, Paris, Calmann-Lévy, 1973. (en) Geoffrey Bibby, Looking for Dilmun, London, Stacey International, 2001 ( ISBN 978-0905743905) (en) D.T. Potts, The Arabian Gulf in Antiquity (Vol 1 - From Prehistory to the Fall of the Achaemenid Empire), Oxford, Clarendon Press, 1990 ( ISBN 978-0198143918)
This article conforms to a highly speculative view that the mythical land of Dilmun was a reference to modern Bahrain. There are far too many scholarly criticisms of this view, the major one being that Bahrain has not revealed evidence of culture older than about 2200 B.C. We know Dilmun must be from, at least, 3000 B.C. This article needs major restructure, and offer valuable mainstream views on the subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:882:100:EF90:9F6:663C:7564:4448 ( talk) 06:28, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
What is the evidence that Dilmun was Semitic Speaking? John D. Croft ( talk) 09:37, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
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This section seems to strongly contradict the introduction and most available research IF it is meant to imply that the major Dilmun site is at the north, near Shatt-al-arab. Statements such as 'of this era' and 'a site has not been found' are currently meaningless. This should be removed or rewritten with adequate accessible references. In a while, say 3 months, I plan to remove it. Nojoking ( talk) 18:17, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Dilmun article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
What happened to Kramer's theory that Dilmun is further out than Bahrain? Ancient texts call it "the place where the sun rises" which would indicate that it lies east of Sumer, not south. Furthermore, kings like Ur-Nanshe brag about receiving tribute from its "far lands". This brag seems to indicate a fair military accomplishment. Although Bahrain may have been difficult to reach with limited maritime technology, it isn't much further from the port towns than northern Assyria. What is the basis for the claim that Meluhha is the Indus Valley civilization? Unless there is some recent scholarship of which I am unaware, I think this is still an open question. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.174.107.159 ( talk) 02:26, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
The following historical assessment is claimed by a prophet of biblical inerrancy to reflect some personal point-of-view: After its actual decline Dilmun developed such a stylized mythology as a garden of exotic perfections that it appears to have influenced the story of the Garden of Eden. In a reverse process, literal-minded interpreters have sometimes tried to establish an Edenic garden at Dilmun. There are two statements here, which apparently both need to be expanded upon, for readers who have never previously encountered this familiar material. -- Wetman 19:21, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
If it were a paradise for Utnapishtim, I surmise it might have suffered eco damage or at any rate ecological change since. Is there archeological or fossil etc. evidence that the island was previously more lush?Thanks, Rich 20:25, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Answer: Yes! See German wp. for its artesian wells; see Geoffrey BIBBY: Dilmun - Rowohlt, Reinbek 1973: Climate was by far wetter in the IIIrd and IInd millennium.
External link or links have recently been deleted by User:Calton as "horrible Tripod pages which add little information, are full of ads, and fail WP:EL standards." No better external links were substituted. Readers may like to judge these deleted links for themselves, by opening Page history. -- Wetman 15:00, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
The first contact of the area with Southern Mesopotamia is attested during the Ubaid period, with the finds of numerous sites showing the importation of the ine Ubaid were pottery. Prior to this period, shellfish middens attest to the presence of semi-perminent settlements of hunter-gatherer-fisherfolk of the Arabian bifacial industry tradition.
ine? bifacial? HUH?!? -- 69.12.157.118 22:16, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
"Bifacial" refers to a biface, a chipped stone tool class with an archaeological record going back tens of thousands of years. Different styles or manufacturing methods are used to typify different populations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.244.79.51 ( talk) 16:21, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Tylos should not direct to Dilmun as they were two different periods - Tylos was what Bahrain was known as by Alexander the Great and the Greeks. It needs a new page and the link removed. Dilmun ( talk) 21:50, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
"To date (2008) archaeology has failed to find a site in existence from 3300 B.C.(Uruk IV) to 556 B.C.(Neo-Babylonian Era) when Dilmun (Telmun) appears in texts." I find this statement puzzling, because Barbar Temple has been dated to 3000 B.C... Moon Oracle ( talk) 20:56, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
My recollection via Bibby is that older remains eta 4000BC were inaccessible eg at the Tell at Tarut. Secondly, I note only one reference to changes in sea-level to around 6000bp - The maps which show the available land-area into the current sea is significant. is this worth a considered answer? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nojoking ( talk • contribs) 18:23, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
Archaeology of the Arabian Gulf, although it generally presupposes the Bahrain hypothesis. — LlywelynII 08:41, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
Further sources: de.wikipedia and fr.wikipedia - they both would well bolster en.wp's information. - Nuremberg - Ángel.García 131.188.254.13 ( talk) 19:41, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
The notorious editwarrior User: Til Eulenspiegel reverts the following edit:
If this is reverted again I shall ask for a third opinion without fruitless struggling with this notorious editor.-- Wetman ( talk) 00:28, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
All the names you mention in the article on Dilmun are either Arabian or names of civilizations that prevailed in that particular area at the time. Despite all that you write, "The Persian Gulf" without any consideration for the Arabs who lived on both sides of the Gulf until the "Persian" empire's expansion and their occupation of the region to the east of the Gulf. The Persians changed the names of many places and isles in the Gulf, either entirely to give them a Persian character, or to suit their way of pronunciation. Examples of the former would be Muhammara محمّرة (which is now Khurumsheher), Khafajiya خفاجية, Sirb El Thahab سرب الذهب(Serbilzahab, while the latter can clearly be seen in names like Ahwaz أحواز(which is basically the plural of hawz حوز, a property or a piece of land owned by someone), Kish كيش (Originally, it is the name of the isle Oum Qais or Kais أم قيس).Until now you can see Arabian uniform in certain places over there. The problem is the persistence in provoking the Arabs and using the term "Persian Gulf". It should take its name from the Arabian environment, thus the Arabian Gulf. Any logic why it shouldn't?
Jamil Hamada — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.211.102.69 ( talk) 19:55, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
Very surprising that the name of Bibby is missing and a reference to his books is not given. 81.14.57.28 ( talk) 14:48, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
Geoffrey BIBBY is an archaeologist who personally explored Dilmun.
Bibliography: (de) Geoffrey Bibby, Dilmun. Die Entdeckung der ältesten Hochkultur. Rowohlt, Reinbek 1973 ( ISBN 3-498-00440-9) ; trad. fr. : Dilmoun. La découverte de la plus ancienne civilisation, Paris, Calmann-Lévy, 1973. (en) Geoffrey Bibby, Looking for Dilmun, London, Stacey International, 2001 ( ISBN 978-0905743905) (en) D.T. Potts, The Arabian Gulf in Antiquity (Vol 1 - From Prehistory to the Fall of the Achaemenid Empire), Oxford, Clarendon Press, 1990 ( ISBN 978-0198143918)
This article conforms to a highly speculative view that the mythical land of Dilmun was a reference to modern Bahrain. There are far too many scholarly criticisms of this view, the major one being that Bahrain has not revealed evidence of culture older than about 2200 B.C. We know Dilmun must be from, at least, 3000 B.C. This article needs major restructure, and offer valuable mainstream views on the subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:882:100:EF90:9F6:663C:7564:4448 ( talk) 06:28, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
What is the evidence that Dilmun was Semitic Speaking? John D. Croft ( talk) 09:37, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
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I have just modified one external link on Dilmun. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This section seems to strongly contradict the introduction and most available research IF it is meant to imply that the major Dilmun site is at the north, near Shatt-al-arab. Statements such as 'of this era' and 'a site has not been found' are currently meaningless. This should be removed or rewritten with adequate accessible references. In a while, say 3 months, I plan to remove it. Nojoking ( talk) 18:17, 14 November 2022 (UTC)