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Hello guys as you may know we have been having a debate, mainly between Marshal and me, about this article. After several months we are in a good track and we could agree on many things, the present article integrates what we have been discussing and adds more information. It's not flawless, and I know it can be improved further but I think that by now it can be loaded and start working together in its improvement, Marshal also agrees with it. So I hope that in the future we can talk things through making positive suggestions for the benefit of the article. Below I'll copy the content of our agreements in the page User talk:Tbsdy lives/Erebedhel and MarshalN20 so everybody can have a reference of what we have been talking so far. Erebedhel - Talk 21:16, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
Main point of debate: What countries should be mentioned in the lead?
MarshalN20 considers that Ecuador and Argentina should be added to the list providing the following link:
The Ministry of Cultures of Bolivia clarified that 'the Diablada' is one of the most important icons of the Canival of Oruro, declared as Masterpieces of the Oral and Intangible Heritage of Humanity by the UNESCO in 2001. Meanwhile, Peruvian analysts say that 'the Diablada' is for centuries a cultural manifestation shared y Peru and Bolivia in the altiplanic zone in the border and that it can be even observed also in the north of Argentina and even in Ecuador. |
It's visible in the text that those who say that it's danced in those other countries are the "Peruvian analysts" so adding that phrase without attribution wouldn't be neutral either. (On a side note, I should point out that mr. Ernesto Justiniano is a blogger, a very dedicated and organized one but a blogger who copy news in his blog from other websites).
Regarding the Diablada pillareña I'm afraid that among the sources MarshalN20 compiled other than being an homonym there isn't a established link between that particular dance and the topic of this article, establishing that link within the article would constitute original synthesis.
Moreover, what should be the criterion of inclusion to the list of countries where it's danced? One thing is which countries really dispute the origin of the dance and the countries where the dance was imported. For example the Diablada is performed since 2003 in Austria and for over 11 years in USA. Erebedhel - Talk 21:33, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
That the actors or characters that intervene are: DEVILS with a large number of participants, dance around the LINE COUPLES which, represent the patrons, dance to the rhythm of the music un couples and classic steps guarded by the devils; the GUARACHAS, men disguised as women, of the brighten and "offered" in their presentation travels the squad dancing with great rejoicing, drops a doll simbolizing their son and presents him to all the spectators toasting with liquor that carries in their caminera (bag), the CAPARICHES, initiate a parade, opening the path and dancing qith a broom elaborated of flowers, nettle and wild plants; THE BAND is impressing in the party, the actors dance following rhythms of Sanjuanitos, tones, passacaglia and saltashpas, THE CABECILLA is the organizer and responsible f the good presentation of each one of the matches
Main point of debate: Is it accurate to say it's only during the 16th century?
MarshalN20 exposed that 1538 and 1576 are in the 16th century, which is correct, and the mention to 1818 didn't mention specifically that it was the date suggested by Max Harris, however I believe he didn't read the whole text in the paragraph The Sins of the Carnival Virgin and I wouldn't blame him because it's 20 pages long from page 205 to page 225 but in resume Max Harris says that the Rebellion of Túpac Amaru II in 1781 represented a big event in the city of Oruro and it was the event that marked Oruro's carnival because the rebellion occurred during those days, Harris suggests that a generation later the parish priest Ladislao Montealegre tried to represent this event and wrote a play named "Narrative of the Seven Deadly Sins" which according to him and Fortún would be inspired in the Ball de Diables and then later he explains how it adapted into the modern Diablada. This theory is also present in other studies [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11]
Besides another theory suggested in this book says that it was during the 18th century in Potosí. Erebedhel - Talk 21:33, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
Main point of debate: Should the lead mention Lupakas or Dance of the Anchanchu?
I noticed that MarshalN20 reintroduced a part regarding the name Dance del Anchanchu (now wikilinked) that I previously changed to Lupakas. We didn't mention our reasons for that change but I consider it fair to explain it further, MarshalN20's information is based on the following article:
The mask maker Edwin Loza Huarachi, Punean mask maker who had been dancer of the Diablada during more than twenty years, in which he has danced like angel and as devil, proposes go further in this generalized supposition which treats the Diablada as an Auto Sacramental of the Catholic Church , which represents the struggle between good and the evil, and in which the one who decides the victory of the archangels is the protector virgin of the miners, mother of the Candlemas. In its place, he raises as requirement to understand the meaning of the dance the necessity of submerge oneself in the cosmos understanding of the Aymara men, to find there some of the responses beyond the apparent. Is this way he prefers to name ''Dance of the Anchanchu" to what today is known as Diablada Puneña |
First of all Edwin Loza Huarachi himself says that Diablada puneña = Dance of the Anchanchu so it wouldn't need a different article. But overall I really don't think that mr Loza Huarachi suggestion would constitute a really relevant reason to change Lupakas which also are in the literature that defend the theory of Juli [12] [13]. Erebedhel - Talk 21:33, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
A terrible demon in the folklore of the Aymara people (Bolivia and Peru). He deceives the unwary with his smiles and friendly appearance, then afflicts them with deadly diseases. It is also said that the Anchanchu sucks the blood of his victims during their sleep. His presence is accompanied by whirlwinds. The Aymara avoid rivers and isolated places where the demon is supposed to reside.
Good job on the article. It's looking great thus far. There are still some minor things that I would like to debate, but in the overall it's great.-- MarshalN20 | Talk 00:11, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
"DANZA DE DIABLOS" and "DIABLADA" are two diferent adjetivs.
"DANZA DE DIABLOS" is generic, and is a "generic dance" with various forms like contries are:
"diablicos" = devil dance from venezuela "gran diablo" = devil dance from panama "diablada" = devil dance from Bolivia etc.
So... "diablada" = is a one from various "DANZAS DE DIABLOS" (from Oruro - Bolivia)....
TANKS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.129.19.244 ( talk) 21:06, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
This article contains several subjectivism, they began to edit properly, please involve stakeholders. Greetings -- Nair ( talk) 16:00, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
This article passed through lenghty POV conflicts and was in formal mediation, another episode of such behaviour could lead to permanent block. Please let's avoid further conflict. 200.87.23.193 ( talk) 14:57, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Good, a cordial greeting to all active editors of this article, I activated my participation in this article to improve it, with all necessary references and go removing all subjective phrases and personal conclusions of previous editors. You respect the primary sources to improve the article, those wishing to participate can do so productively and started working. PD. I saw in the record that there were difficulties in the past for this reason the changes carefully and explaining each.Greetings -- Nair ( talk) 19:41, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
(←) Guys, really don't waste your time reverting and reverting, just talk here explaining what's wrong with that image both opinions regarding that image I could say however that the yellow area is spread over Argentina and there aren't any sources saying that the Diablada was born there. so perhaps it should be fixed in any case. 200.87.23.193 ( talk) 00:28, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
(←)And opened the debate on the image, if it becomes necessary to call an administrator to act as moderator.-- Nair ( talk) 16:27, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
Will perform a structural change in the article as the introduction and they are mixing several historical data on the positions of each country. IMPORTANT: Do not erase any word, phrase or paragraph. The structure is as follows:
7 External links
Each posture will be in place where it belongs and will summarize, I saw that article there diablada of these countries, these are fed in detail, thus lightening the article and each historical data and position will be in place .-- Nair ( talk) 16:07, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
I have to oppose the structural changes proposed here by Nair. A history article or section is beter organized chronologically and not nationally, Refering to "Chilean", "Bolivian" and "Peruvian" postures (if there are) can be done but they do rather belong in history of diablada or diablada controversy article. Also it is important to not invent camps that does not exists by linking postures of Peruvian, Chilean or Bolivian historians to that of their goverments. Some might support their goverments positions other maybe not and yet other are being used by goverments.
The proposal by Marshal to have a summarized history section seems appropiated so that a 2 year old controversy does not get an undeservedly big space, diablada has to be lookt upon a historical perspective not trough the lens of recent controversy.
So.. is somebody opposing a sumarized history section with no individual subsections? Dentren | Talk 15:31, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
![]() |
I am responding to a third opinion request for this page. I have made no previous edits on Diablada and have no known association with the editors involved in this discussion. The third opinion process is informal and I have no special powers or authority apart from being a fresh pair of eyes. |
I agree with MarshallN20 on largely maintaining the existing structure and moving information into the separate History of the Diablada article.
I believe that Nair's proposed restructuring of the History section would harm the clarity of the existing discussions on roots theories. It is already clearly stated which theories the academics from each of the countries subscribe to. It seems better to focus on the theories—which are at the very essence of the dance's identity—than on the more recent debates and which countries those debate participants live in. If anything, such a nationalistic focus is better suited to the History of the Diablada article.— Infoman99 ( talk) 08:23, 6 April 2011 (UTC) |
Greetings informan99 user, seeing the current situation of the article is necessary structural change but I think I was misunderstood. Explain what happened to constructive ideas for adding new participants and also to follow the WP: SUMARY:
1 Origin of the denomination
2 History
The origin of the Diablada is a matter of dispute between the countries of Peru and Bolivia. [1] Three main locations exist for the possible origin of the dance. These places are:
During the evangelism of the natives, the missionaries instilled the Christian paradigm of good and evil by teaching them their theatrical dance which was a representation of the seven deadly sins that concluded with the victory of the angels over the demons (which is how the costumes of angels and demons became associated with the dance). Ultimately, the result was a fusion between Spanish and Andean culture in the Altiplano as the original dance taught by the Jesuit missionaries adopted Andean elements.
The Diablada' represents a mixture between Christianity and Andean religions that goes as far back as 1538, where in the mines of Aullagas (in northern Potosí) the natives adopted Christian religious figures and adapted them to their indigenous religious visions. [4] The dance eventually became part of a series of Christian religious festivities, most prominently during the celebrations to the Virgin of Candelaria (also known as the Virgin of Socavón). [4] These Christian rituals replaced the old Andean beliefs and mythology, and the festivities changed from honouring what were considered "pagan" gods to that of honouring Christian saints and God. Over the years, the Diablada has developed uniquely in various regions of South America, which has led to variations such as the Diablada Puneña and the Diablada of Oruro. [5]
3 Dance
4 Choreography
5 Music
6 Regional variations 7 Reinvindication movements
8 See also Would move more data history subtitle to the article " History of the Diablada" and so the data only leave the dance for better reading.-- Nair ( talk) 15:36, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
References
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There's a September 2018 proposal to merge this page with History of the Diablada and Oruro Diablada, and I've suggested merging here as it is the oldest article (started 2009 rather than 2011), the simplest and the broadest title. The Diablada page makes it clear that the dance originated in the Oruro region, so Oruro Diablada seems to be a synonym (or perhaps there is reason to keep the local/original dance in a separate section?). The other two pages also include history, so combining them would bring similar material together and avoid duplication of scope. Klbrain ( talk) 21:17, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
Wikipedians should impartially investigate in depth about this article, the dance of the "DIABLADA" is exclusively and clearly of Bolivian origin. In Bolivia there are many strong evidence of the music, choreography of the masks and clothing, its evolution and development.
There is a small town in the Andes of Peru called Puno that practices many Bolivian dances and they are the only ones who refuse to accept that the diablada is Bolivian. Bolivian dances can be danced anywhere in the world and that does not take away its Bolivian origin. Chile, Ecuador, Argentina, including many Peruvian dances scholars affirm that the "DIABLADA" is indeed a cultural expression only from Bolivia.
They are malicious actions by wanting to strip Bolivians of their cultural expressions, which is part of the identity of Bolivia. It is very ridiculous and stupid to say that the "DIABLADA" is of shared origin or of several countries. Some Catholic autosacramentals found in Juli-Peru cannot be considered the origin of the "DIABLADA". Catholic and Jesuit evangelizers came and evangelized almost all of South America, not just Peru or Bolivia. and dance of devils there are all over the world and the entire American continent from Mexico, Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia, Peru, Chile and Argentina and are totally different expressions from the DIABLADA. The name DIABLADA PILLAREÑA of Ecuador is recent and was taken from Bolivia, as evidenced by Ecuadorian documents. Before it was called DIABLOS DE PILLARO. Of course, the only thing that resembles the DIABLADA from Bolivia is in name.
Let's be more objective, the DIABLADA is Bolivian. For simple example, we all know that pizza is Italian even though it contains tomato that is of Mexican origin, and we do not see Mexicans protesting that the pizza is recognized as Mexican, it is Italian and it cannot be denied. Flamenco is a cultural expression of Spain and uses Peruvian CAJON instrument and that is not why Peruvians claim that Flamenco is of Peruvian origin. Or Jazz is an expression of the USA and it is also popular in Canada and that is not why Canadians claim that it is of shared origin only because it borders the United States, everyone knows that it is from the United States.
For example If some malicious Chileans happen to vandalize pages like Wikipedia, blatantly lying and claiming that Tango is a Chilean dance or shared dance and not just from Argentina. Will they do nothing just because they must be neutral?
I want to reach a consensus to correct the article, the dance is uniquely Bolivian and any expert on the subject knows it and cannot deny it. EKP70 ( talk) 04:51, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
I propose to merge Diablada (Bolivia) into Diablada. I suspect that the "(Bolivia)" version was created in an attempt to focus on that country exclusively while expanding coverage into larger cultural traditions. That may be a worthy distinction but the two articles are nearly identical except for some musical terminology, and Bolivia is the focus of both. Dance, music, clothing, and other cultural phenomena can be covered in a single article, given the fact that both of the current articles do so with largely repetitive prose. --- DOOMSDAYER520 ( TALK| CONTRIBS) 14:41, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
After several weeks, nobody has stepped up to oppose this merge, and the folks above have given good reasons for doing it. The following articles will be merged and redirected into the main Diablada article:
All of the above articles are ruinously repetitive and show signs of
coatracking over regional disputes about where the dance originated. Arguments have taken place not just in the talk pages but in the articles themselves. As someone from outside the countries involved, perhaps I can provide an outside perspective. It appears that Bolivia the region within the present borders of Bolivia is the winner among reliable historians, with some support here and there for other countries as the originators. The alternative viewpoints can be included with sources, but that does not require multiple near-identical articles nor arguments within the text about how that day's editor thinks the others are biased. The Diablada is a fascinating topic for which readers deserve more organization. ---
DOOMSDAYER520 (
TALK|
CONTRIBS)
17:45, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
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![]() | The contents of the Diablada (Bolivia) page were merged into Diablada on 5 September 2021. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
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![]() | The contents of the Diablada pillareña page were merged into Diablada on 5 September 2021. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
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Hello guys as you may know we have been having a debate, mainly between Marshal and me, about this article. After several months we are in a good track and we could agree on many things, the present article integrates what we have been discussing and adds more information. It's not flawless, and I know it can be improved further but I think that by now it can be loaded and start working together in its improvement, Marshal also agrees with it. So I hope that in the future we can talk things through making positive suggestions for the benefit of the article. Below I'll copy the content of our agreements in the page User talk:Tbsdy lives/Erebedhel and MarshalN20 so everybody can have a reference of what we have been talking so far. Erebedhel - Talk 21:16, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
Main point of debate: What countries should be mentioned in the lead?
MarshalN20 considers that Ecuador and Argentina should be added to the list providing the following link:
The Ministry of Cultures of Bolivia clarified that 'the Diablada' is one of the most important icons of the Canival of Oruro, declared as Masterpieces of the Oral and Intangible Heritage of Humanity by the UNESCO in 2001. Meanwhile, Peruvian analysts say that 'the Diablada' is for centuries a cultural manifestation shared y Peru and Bolivia in the altiplanic zone in the border and that it can be even observed also in the north of Argentina and even in Ecuador. |
It's visible in the text that those who say that it's danced in those other countries are the "Peruvian analysts" so adding that phrase without attribution wouldn't be neutral either. (On a side note, I should point out that mr. Ernesto Justiniano is a blogger, a very dedicated and organized one but a blogger who copy news in his blog from other websites).
Regarding the Diablada pillareña I'm afraid that among the sources MarshalN20 compiled other than being an homonym there isn't a established link between that particular dance and the topic of this article, establishing that link within the article would constitute original synthesis.
Moreover, what should be the criterion of inclusion to the list of countries where it's danced? One thing is which countries really dispute the origin of the dance and the countries where the dance was imported. For example the Diablada is performed since 2003 in Austria and for over 11 years in USA. Erebedhel - Talk 21:33, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
That the actors or characters that intervene are: DEVILS with a large number of participants, dance around the LINE COUPLES which, represent the patrons, dance to the rhythm of the music un couples and classic steps guarded by the devils; the GUARACHAS, men disguised as women, of the brighten and "offered" in their presentation travels the squad dancing with great rejoicing, drops a doll simbolizing their son and presents him to all the spectators toasting with liquor that carries in their caminera (bag), the CAPARICHES, initiate a parade, opening the path and dancing qith a broom elaborated of flowers, nettle and wild plants; THE BAND is impressing in the party, the actors dance following rhythms of Sanjuanitos, tones, passacaglia and saltashpas, THE CABECILLA is the organizer and responsible f the good presentation of each one of the matches
Main point of debate: Is it accurate to say it's only during the 16th century?
MarshalN20 exposed that 1538 and 1576 are in the 16th century, which is correct, and the mention to 1818 didn't mention specifically that it was the date suggested by Max Harris, however I believe he didn't read the whole text in the paragraph The Sins of the Carnival Virgin and I wouldn't blame him because it's 20 pages long from page 205 to page 225 but in resume Max Harris says that the Rebellion of Túpac Amaru II in 1781 represented a big event in the city of Oruro and it was the event that marked Oruro's carnival because the rebellion occurred during those days, Harris suggests that a generation later the parish priest Ladislao Montealegre tried to represent this event and wrote a play named "Narrative of the Seven Deadly Sins" which according to him and Fortún would be inspired in the Ball de Diables and then later he explains how it adapted into the modern Diablada. This theory is also present in other studies [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11]
Besides another theory suggested in this book says that it was during the 18th century in Potosí. Erebedhel - Talk 21:33, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
Main point of debate: Should the lead mention Lupakas or Dance of the Anchanchu?
I noticed that MarshalN20 reintroduced a part regarding the name Dance del Anchanchu (now wikilinked) that I previously changed to Lupakas. We didn't mention our reasons for that change but I consider it fair to explain it further, MarshalN20's information is based on the following article:
The mask maker Edwin Loza Huarachi, Punean mask maker who had been dancer of the Diablada during more than twenty years, in which he has danced like angel and as devil, proposes go further in this generalized supposition which treats the Diablada as an Auto Sacramental of the Catholic Church , which represents the struggle between good and the evil, and in which the one who decides the victory of the archangels is the protector virgin of the miners, mother of the Candlemas. In its place, he raises as requirement to understand the meaning of the dance the necessity of submerge oneself in the cosmos understanding of the Aymara men, to find there some of the responses beyond the apparent. Is this way he prefers to name ''Dance of the Anchanchu" to what today is known as Diablada Puneña |
First of all Edwin Loza Huarachi himself says that Diablada puneña = Dance of the Anchanchu so it wouldn't need a different article. But overall I really don't think that mr Loza Huarachi suggestion would constitute a really relevant reason to change Lupakas which also are in the literature that defend the theory of Juli [12] [13]. Erebedhel - Talk 21:33, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
A terrible demon in the folklore of the Aymara people (Bolivia and Peru). He deceives the unwary with his smiles and friendly appearance, then afflicts them with deadly diseases. It is also said that the Anchanchu sucks the blood of his victims during their sleep. His presence is accompanied by whirlwinds. The Aymara avoid rivers and isolated places where the demon is supposed to reside.
Good job on the article. It's looking great thus far. There are still some minor things that I would like to debate, but in the overall it's great.-- MarshalN20 | Talk 00:11, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
"DANZA DE DIABLOS" and "DIABLADA" are two diferent adjetivs.
"DANZA DE DIABLOS" is generic, and is a "generic dance" with various forms like contries are:
"diablicos" = devil dance from venezuela "gran diablo" = devil dance from panama "diablada" = devil dance from Bolivia etc.
So... "diablada" = is a one from various "DANZAS DE DIABLOS" (from Oruro - Bolivia)....
TANKS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.129.19.244 ( talk) 21:06, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
This article contains several subjectivism, they began to edit properly, please involve stakeholders. Greetings -- Nair ( talk) 16:00, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
This article passed through lenghty POV conflicts and was in formal mediation, another episode of such behaviour could lead to permanent block. Please let's avoid further conflict. 200.87.23.193 ( talk) 14:57, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Good, a cordial greeting to all active editors of this article, I activated my participation in this article to improve it, with all necessary references and go removing all subjective phrases and personal conclusions of previous editors. You respect the primary sources to improve the article, those wishing to participate can do so productively and started working. PD. I saw in the record that there were difficulties in the past for this reason the changes carefully and explaining each.Greetings -- Nair ( talk) 19:41, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
(←) Guys, really don't waste your time reverting and reverting, just talk here explaining what's wrong with that image both opinions regarding that image I could say however that the yellow area is spread over Argentina and there aren't any sources saying that the Diablada was born there. so perhaps it should be fixed in any case. 200.87.23.193 ( talk) 00:28, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
(←)And opened the debate on the image, if it becomes necessary to call an administrator to act as moderator.-- Nair ( talk) 16:27, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
Will perform a structural change in the article as the introduction and they are mixing several historical data on the positions of each country. IMPORTANT: Do not erase any word, phrase or paragraph. The structure is as follows:
7 External links
Each posture will be in place where it belongs and will summarize, I saw that article there diablada of these countries, these are fed in detail, thus lightening the article and each historical data and position will be in place .-- Nair ( talk) 16:07, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
I have to oppose the structural changes proposed here by Nair. A history article or section is beter organized chronologically and not nationally, Refering to "Chilean", "Bolivian" and "Peruvian" postures (if there are) can be done but they do rather belong in history of diablada or diablada controversy article. Also it is important to not invent camps that does not exists by linking postures of Peruvian, Chilean or Bolivian historians to that of their goverments. Some might support their goverments positions other maybe not and yet other are being used by goverments.
The proposal by Marshal to have a summarized history section seems appropiated so that a 2 year old controversy does not get an undeservedly big space, diablada has to be lookt upon a historical perspective not trough the lens of recent controversy.
So.. is somebody opposing a sumarized history section with no individual subsections? Dentren | Talk 15:31, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
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I am responding to a third opinion request for this page. I have made no previous edits on Diablada and have no known association with the editors involved in this discussion. The third opinion process is informal and I have no special powers or authority apart from being a fresh pair of eyes. |
I agree with MarshallN20 on largely maintaining the existing structure and moving information into the separate History of the Diablada article.
I believe that Nair's proposed restructuring of the History section would harm the clarity of the existing discussions on roots theories. It is already clearly stated which theories the academics from each of the countries subscribe to. It seems better to focus on the theories—which are at the very essence of the dance's identity—than on the more recent debates and which countries those debate participants live in. If anything, such a nationalistic focus is better suited to the History of the Diablada article.— Infoman99 ( talk) 08:23, 6 April 2011 (UTC) |
Greetings informan99 user, seeing the current situation of the article is necessary structural change but I think I was misunderstood. Explain what happened to constructive ideas for adding new participants and also to follow the WP: SUMARY:
1 Origin of the denomination
2 History
The origin of the Diablada is a matter of dispute between the countries of Peru and Bolivia. [1] Three main locations exist for the possible origin of the dance. These places are:
During the evangelism of the natives, the missionaries instilled the Christian paradigm of good and evil by teaching them their theatrical dance which was a representation of the seven deadly sins that concluded with the victory of the angels over the demons (which is how the costumes of angels and demons became associated with the dance). Ultimately, the result was a fusion between Spanish and Andean culture in the Altiplano as the original dance taught by the Jesuit missionaries adopted Andean elements.
The Diablada' represents a mixture between Christianity and Andean religions that goes as far back as 1538, where in the mines of Aullagas (in northern Potosí) the natives adopted Christian religious figures and adapted them to their indigenous religious visions. [4] The dance eventually became part of a series of Christian religious festivities, most prominently during the celebrations to the Virgin of Candelaria (also known as the Virgin of Socavón). [4] These Christian rituals replaced the old Andean beliefs and mythology, and the festivities changed from honouring what were considered "pagan" gods to that of honouring Christian saints and God. Over the years, the Diablada has developed uniquely in various regions of South America, which has led to variations such as the Diablada Puneña and the Diablada of Oruro. [5]
3 Dance
4 Choreography
5 Music
6 Regional variations 7 Reinvindication movements
8 See also Would move more data history subtitle to the article " History of the Diablada" and so the data only leave the dance for better reading.-- Nair ( talk) 15:36, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
References
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There's a September 2018 proposal to merge this page with History of the Diablada and Oruro Diablada, and I've suggested merging here as it is the oldest article (started 2009 rather than 2011), the simplest and the broadest title. The Diablada page makes it clear that the dance originated in the Oruro region, so Oruro Diablada seems to be a synonym (or perhaps there is reason to keep the local/original dance in a separate section?). The other two pages also include history, so combining them would bring similar material together and avoid duplication of scope. Klbrain ( talk) 21:17, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
Wikipedians should impartially investigate in depth about this article, the dance of the "DIABLADA" is exclusively and clearly of Bolivian origin. In Bolivia there are many strong evidence of the music, choreography of the masks and clothing, its evolution and development.
There is a small town in the Andes of Peru called Puno that practices many Bolivian dances and they are the only ones who refuse to accept that the diablada is Bolivian. Bolivian dances can be danced anywhere in the world and that does not take away its Bolivian origin. Chile, Ecuador, Argentina, including many Peruvian dances scholars affirm that the "DIABLADA" is indeed a cultural expression only from Bolivia.
They are malicious actions by wanting to strip Bolivians of their cultural expressions, which is part of the identity of Bolivia. It is very ridiculous and stupid to say that the "DIABLADA" is of shared origin or of several countries. Some Catholic autosacramentals found in Juli-Peru cannot be considered the origin of the "DIABLADA". Catholic and Jesuit evangelizers came and evangelized almost all of South America, not just Peru or Bolivia. and dance of devils there are all over the world and the entire American continent from Mexico, Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia, Peru, Chile and Argentina and are totally different expressions from the DIABLADA. The name DIABLADA PILLAREÑA of Ecuador is recent and was taken from Bolivia, as evidenced by Ecuadorian documents. Before it was called DIABLOS DE PILLARO. Of course, the only thing that resembles the DIABLADA from Bolivia is in name.
Let's be more objective, the DIABLADA is Bolivian. For simple example, we all know that pizza is Italian even though it contains tomato that is of Mexican origin, and we do not see Mexicans protesting that the pizza is recognized as Mexican, it is Italian and it cannot be denied. Flamenco is a cultural expression of Spain and uses Peruvian CAJON instrument and that is not why Peruvians claim that Flamenco is of Peruvian origin. Or Jazz is an expression of the USA and it is also popular in Canada and that is not why Canadians claim that it is of shared origin only because it borders the United States, everyone knows that it is from the United States.
For example If some malicious Chileans happen to vandalize pages like Wikipedia, blatantly lying and claiming that Tango is a Chilean dance or shared dance and not just from Argentina. Will they do nothing just because they must be neutral?
I want to reach a consensus to correct the article, the dance is uniquely Bolivian and any expert on the subject knows it and cannot deny it. EKP70 ( talk) 04:51, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
I propose to merge Diablada (Bolivia) into Diablada. I suspect that the "(Bolivia)" version was created in an attempt to focus on that country exclusively while expanding coverage into larger cultural traditions. That may be a worthy distinction but the two articles are nearly identical except for some musical terminology, and Bolivia is the focus of both. Dance, music, clothing, and other cultural phenomena can be covered in a single article, given the fact that both of the current articles do so with largely repetitive prose. --- DOOMSDAYER520 ( TALK| CONTRIBS) 14:41, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
After several weeks, nobody has stepped up to oppose this merge, and the folks above have given good reasons for doing it. The following articles will be merged and redirected into the main Diablada article:
All of the above articles are ruinously repetitive and show signs of
coatracking over regional disputes about where the dance originated. Arguments have taken place not just in the talk pages but in the articles themselves. As someone from outside the countries involved, perhaps I can provide an outside perspective. It appears that Bolivia the region within the present borders of Bolivia is the winner among reliable historians, with some support here and there for other countries as the originators. The alternative viewpoints can be included with sources, but that does not require multiple near-identical articles nor arguments within the text about how that day's editor thinks the others are biased. The Diablada is a fascinating topic for which readers deserve more organization. ---
DOOMSDAYER520 (
TALK|
CONTRIBS)
17:45, 5 September 2021 (UTC)