This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to
India,
Pakistan, and
Afghanistan, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:52, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
This article is supported by secondary scholarship that is cited in reference list.
Dr. Hamza Ebrahim ( talk) 01:56, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
@ Dr. Hamza Ebrahim:, please note the following:
Dr. Hamza Ebrahim ( talk) 17:21, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
{{
cite news}}
: CS1 maint: url-status (
link)
{{
cite news}}
: Check date values in: |access-date=
(
help)CS1 maint: url-status (
link)
Dear Santosh L & Amkgp!. Initially the title was "Destruction of Kashmiri Shias", some other editor changed it to the present title. "Destruction of Kashmiri Shias" is translation of the term "Taraaj-e-Shia" that is used for these events in history books. I think we should use it as it is more precise and it has a history. Dr. Hamza Ebrahim ( talk) 11:18, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
Dr. Hamza Ebrahim ( talk) 10:27, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
Dear Amkgp, this article predates https://lubpak.net/archives/357655. Check https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Genocide_of_Kashmiri_Shias&action=info Dr. Hamza Ebrahim ( talk) 11:49, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
In 1586 CE, Kashmir was merged with the Mughal Empire. Mughals appointed talented officers and contributed greatly to the cultural and economic life of Kashmir.
Kashmiri kings fought 3 wars with mughals which they won. Then suddenly mughals came, /info/en/?search=History_of_Kashmir#Mughals_(1580s%E2%80%931750s) and "in 1589 CE. Akbar conquered Kashmir by deceit.
This is interesting because yousuf chak was a shia and the general shia population was the same, around 5%. This means just by numbers alone, one can assume only 5% of army was shia. This implies when the wars were first won against mughals, both shia and sunni (95%) were united and the wars won were a result of this cooperation. Then how come suddenly you turn from buddies to arch enemies which the mughals were quick to take advantage of? The general consensus is that mughals, seeing their defeat multiple times ended up sending saboteurs to the valley who raised the shia-sunni infighting.
I find the tone of this article really troubling. There is no doubt harsh injustices were done against the minority shia, i am not contesting facts but simply saying shia-sunni divide is because sunnis consider them heretics and are out for their blood is simply not true. Time and again external factors have fanned the flames for their personal gain and while the masses might go with the flow and do untold bad things, the base intention needs to be analyzed as well. Mhveinvp ( talk) 09:26, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
I believe genocide is absolutely wrong term. Provide source that claims so. How to retitle this article? TrangaBellam ( talk) 10:18, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
This 'taraaj' seems to be part of a continued tradition of persecution.is unsourced. WP:SYNTH.
Should Genocide of Kashmiri Shias (article title since changed) be merged into Kashmiri Muslims or moved to some other title? TrangaBellam ( talk) 15:03, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
So far 4 oppose, 2 move, 1 support.
Dr. Hamza Ebrahim ( talk) 14:38, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
Per RM close, the title of this article is Persecution of Kashmiri Shias. Pending revisions to article to deal with POV issues merge issues are moot and merge notices removed. Mike Cline ( talk) 15:10, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
When persecution of a minority community is discussed, some people who identify themselves with the perpetrators want it removed from Wikipedia. If failed, they would try to merge it and somehow hide it. They usually pass judgements without mentioning scholarly sources to support their claims. Their favourite tool is to misinterpret wikipedia rules. Check: WP:WIKILAWYER. In this case it can be Sunni zealots who may want to remove this article or merge it to some other. This behavior isn't welcome on Wikipedia. Check: WP:GWAR. -- Dr. Hamza Ebrahim ( talk) 16:59, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
I will try to be polite in future. In case I think there is a misconduct, I will go to the forums you told me about. Thanks again. Dr. Hamza Ebrahim ( talk) 20:39, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved to Persecution of Kashmiri Shias based solely on WP:NPOV and similar article titles as suggested in the discussion. I would encourage interested editors to adapt this title by adjusting text accordingly and avoid POV language. Mike Cline ( talk) 14:57, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
Destruction of Kashmiri Shias → Shia Islam in Kashmir – The article title seems a bit odd and the name seems to be an attribute of WP:SYNTH. دَستخَط، اِفلاق (کَتھ باتھ) 13:06, 1 February 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Colin M ( talk) 19:56, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to
India,
Pakistan, and
Afghanistan, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:52, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
This article is supported by secondary scholarship that is cited in reference list.
Dr. Hamza Ebrahim ( talk) 01:56, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
@ Dr. Hamza Ebrahim:, please note the following:
Dr. Hamza Ebrahim ( talk) 17:21, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
{{
cite news}}
: CS1 maint: url-status (
link)
{{
cite news}}
: Check date values in: |access-date=
(
help)CS1 maint: url-status (
link)
Dear Santosh L & Amkgp!. Initially the title was "Destruction of Kashmiri Shias", some other editor changed it to the present title. "Destruction of Kashmiri Shias" is translation of the term "Taraaj-e-Shia" that is used for these events in history books. I think we should use it as it is more precise and it has a history. Dr. Hamza Ebrahim ( talk) 11:18, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
Dr. Hamza Ebrahim ( talk) 10:27, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
Dear Amkgp, this article predates https://lubpak.net/archives/357655. Check https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Genocide_of_Kashmiri_Shias&action=info Dr. Hamza Ebrahim ( talk) 11:49, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
In 1586 CE, Kashmir was merged with the Mughal Empire. Mughals appointed talented officers and contributed greatly to the cultural and economic life of Kashmir.
Kashmiri kings fought 3 wars with mughals which they won. Then suddenly mughals came, /info/en/?search=History_of_Kashmir#Mughals_(1580s%E2%80%931750s) and "in 1589 CE. Akbar conquered Kashmir by deceit.
This is interesting because yousuf chak was a shia and the general shia population was the same, around 5%. This means just by numbers alone, one can assume only 5% of army was shia. This implies when the wars were first won against mughals, both shia and sunni (95%) were united and the wars won were a result of this cooperation. Then how come suddenly you turn from buddies to arch enemies which the mughals were quick to take advantage of? The general consensus is that mughals, seeing their defeat multiple times ended up sending saboteurs to the valley who raised the shia-sunni infighting.
I find the tone of this article really troubling. There is no doubt harsh injustices were done against the minority shia, i am not contesting facts but simply saying shia-sunni divide is because sunnis consider them heretics and are out for their blood is simply not true. Time and again external factors have fanned the flames for their personal gain and while the masses might go with the flow and do untold bad things, the base intention needs to be analyzed as well. Mhveinvp ( talk) 09:26, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
I believe genocide is absolutely wrong term. Provide source that claims so. How to retitle this article? TrangaBellam ( talk) 10:18, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
This 'taraaj' seems to be part of a continued tradition of persecution.is unsourced. WP:SYNTH.
Should Genocide of Kashmiri Shias (article title since changed) be merged into Kashmiri Muslims or moved to some other title? TrangaBellam ( talk) 15:03, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
So far 4 oppose, 2 move, 1 support.
Dr. Hamza Ebrahim ( talk) 14:38, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
Per RM close, the title of this article is Persecution of Kashmiri Shias. Pending revisions to article to deal with POV issues merge issues are moot and merge notices removed. Mike Cline ( talk) 15:10, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
When persecution of a minority community is discussed, some people who identify themselves with the perpetrators want it removed from Wikipedia. If failed, they would try to merge it and somehow hide it. They usually pass judgements without mentioning scholarly sources to support their claims. Their favourite tool is to misinterpret wikipedia rules. Check: WP:WIKILAWYER. In this case it can be Sunni zealots who may want to remove this article or merge it to some other. This behavior isn't welcome on Wikipedia. Check: WP:GWAR. -- Dr. Hamza Ebrahim ( talk) 16:59, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
I will try to be polite in future. In case I think there is a misconduct, I will go to the forums you told me about. Thanks again. Dr. Hamza Ebrahim ( talk) 20:39, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved to Persecution of Kashmiri Shias based solely on WP:NPOV and similar article titles as suggested in the discussion. I would encourage interested editors to adapt this title by adjusting text accordingly and avoid POV language. Mike Cline ( talk) 14:57, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
Destruction of Kashmiri Shias → Shia Islam in Kashmir – The article title seems a bit odd and the name seems to be an attribute of WP:SYNTH. دَستخَط، اِفلاق (کَتھ باتھ) 13:06, 1 February 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Colin M ( talk) 19:56, 10 February 2022 (UTC)