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The contents of the Specially denatured alcohol page were merged into Denatured alcohol. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. (3 August 2017) |
I've merged in some info that was originally on the
denaturation page. However, I moved
denaturation to
Denaturation (Biochemistry), so refer to the latter for the page history.
--
Kieran 14:41, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
“ Ethanol” seems to cover denatured alcohol in about the same depth as does this article. Perhaps that content should be moved here, or this content should be moved there. — Fleminra 08:31, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
"...most of which are indeed toxic to humans, but not all." Does this mean there are some denatured alcohols that are not toxic to humans, or does this mean that there are some humans to whom denatured alcohol is not toxic? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pjedicke ( talk • contribs) 18:30, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
From the article:
What an irresponsible statement. Somebody needs to advise the CDC that
methanol isn't actually toxic after all.
--
Brianko (
talk)
00:10, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Meth BP is 65C while eth is 78C. These temps are sufficiently different for even a crudely made simple still to reduce the meth concentration below 1% with a single pass. This level is much less toxic considering it is mixed with eth. The bad tasting additives should have the property that they both remain in the wash, and contaminate the distillate. Chemicals with very low taste thresholds are used. 61.68.161.48 ( talk) 02:04, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
The statement is true and reference Alcohol Dehydrogenase Wiki. Enzyme prefers Ethanol over Methanol 7000:1 so in the presence of Ethyl alcohol, the Wood alcohol is "non-toxic" and excreted in urine or exhaled. The deaths attributed were for higher percentage Methyl alcohol to Ethyl alcohol ratios. TaylorLeem ( talk) 20:18, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
As seen above, there are a number of false "lead-into-gold" spam/rumors in this regard and the article probably needs to take care of not (unintentionally) propagating them. MeOh and EtOh separation is impossible via simple distillation (which is in no way as simple as using isolated boiling points), nor is their combined mixture in any way safe. cypher_zero_∅ 12:29, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
Often enough, mouthwash is denatured alcohol: the active ingredients in the mouthwash also serve as the denaturants. For example, the formula for S.D. Alcohol 37 (
27 CFR
21.64) is, in itself, fairly close to the formula for
Listerine. (Mouthwash is of course diluted with water, and Listerine also contains wintergreen in addition to mint, eucalyptus, and thyme oils.)
--
121a0012 (
talk)
05:46, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
The term is "methylated spirit" (singular) not "spirits", because there is only one spirit: the ethanol. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.107.43.169 ( talk) 23:54, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
I see it being sold under both names. See prescriptive vs descriptive. Also the "spirit" part is a verb (i.e. "to spirit") presumably originating from the breathing effect of the liquid, so it could be argued this is a conjugation. Either way this claim needs a citation. cypher_zero_∅ 12:37, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
Common use of Denatured Alcohol is cleaning of electronics. A cell phone that was dropped in water (especially salt water) can be soaked in this solution and in most cases can save a phone.
- ZeusBAP 19:11, 21 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zeusbap ( talk • contribs)
I'm not very familiar with Wikipedia policy, so I won't edit. But, just as an average joe reading this article the statement that says "the United States federal government denaturing program, by some estimates, had killed at least 10,000 people" seemed non-neutral. The assertion that the policy that mandates production of a solvent such that it is potentially lethal "killed" people is the start of a debate on the policy, not a neutral statement of fact.
I think it would be more neutral to write something like "Since the institution of the United States federal government denaturing program, some estimates indicate that at least 10,000 people have died from ingesting denatured alcohol products" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.134.3.102 ( talk) 04:33, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
Changing methanol in the formulation of British CDA to wood naphtha. The source given specifies "wood naphtha", which is further defined later on that page, and http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageExcise_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000263&propertyType=document states "Please note that methyl alcohol (methanol) is not identical to legally defined wood naphtha, or to any approved wood naphtha substitute". - 86.50.75.227 ( talk) 10:48, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
Some old page history that used to be at the title "denatured alcohol" can now be found at Talk:Denatured alcohol/Old history. Graham 87 14:20, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
"in countries where laws are written in passive voice" this is clearly some sort of prank. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.118.33.220 ( talk) 19:53, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
There is a link to "Denaturation (biochemistry)" at the beginning of the third paragraph of the intro section. This page describe the denaturation of proteins. A quick read of this page shows that the process of the denaturation of proteins described in this paragraph is not related to the denaturing of alcohol. As such, the link is misleading. Someone should remove it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.80.187.148 ( talk) 01:50, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi, not sure that stating that the additives are there to make it more Poisonous as it sounds like it is done deliberatly. Why would someone want to make ethanol more poisonous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pjones4981 ( talk • contribs) 15:05, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
It was done deliberately by the government to stop people from drinking. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2010/02/the_chemists_war.html Kortoso ( talk) 16:31, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
Immiscible liquids are easy to separate, I think what is meant is miscible. But it may be possible to separate miscible liquids by distillation. In any event we need a source for this statement. Martijn Meijering ( talk) 10:19, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
@Quercus solaris: you are edit warring. You're not supposed to remove a dubious tag as I reminded you in my edit message. Please restore the tags until we've had a discussion about this. Martijn Meijering ( talk) 18:18, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
There is a redirect from [ Alcohol 40-B] to here at Denatured alcohol with no explanation as to what "SD Alcohol 40-B" actually is. Could someone knowledgeable please address this? By reading this talk page I get the impression that it may be a US statute for a chemical mixture. 71.178.246.51 ( talk) 16:54, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
Perhaps the redirect would be better sent to here? 71.178.246.51 ( talk) 16:59, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
The citation for ""New Zealand has removed methanol from its government-approved "methylated spirits" formulation."" Has a link to a nonexistent page — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tellurium128 ( talk • contribs) 01:22, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
Should it not be mentioned that denatured alcohol is a petrochemical product? -- Luka1184 ( talk) 20:55, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
Typically denature with 10% Metanol. Pear wine is ~10% ethanol and 1% methanol (10% denatured) and is not considered toxic. Methanol toxicity is due to oxidation to Formaldehyde by the Alcohol Dehydrogenase enzyme. Fortunately human Alcohol Dehydrogenase prefers ethyl alcohol to methyl by 7000:1, so in essence Ethanol is the antidote to Methanol poisoning. The same enzyme also causes the damage from Ethylene Glycol poisoning. TaylorLeem ( talk) 20:08, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
This is one of many articles on Wikipedia where the title is a specifically US term, and it opens with a long list of countries that use a different term. The article would read better if the article was just about methylated spirits, and parenthetically menetions that they're called 'denatured alcohol' in the United States, so I think the title should be changed, and cross-references updated. (Some US editors often try to argue that the majority of the world's English speakers use the US term, but that's unlikely to be true in this case, because they're probably called metholated spirits in India. They definitely are in Malaysia.) MikZ ( talk) 17:42, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
Since Russian consumption of denatured alcohol is mentioned in the article, I think I should also provide a mention of the 2016 Irkutsk mass methanol poisoning, and a link to its Wikipedia page. I am new to Wikipedia so please anyone let me know if this seems appropriate and I will do it. 35drake ( talk) 20:51, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The contents of the Specially denatured alcohol page were merged into Denatured alcohol. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. (3 August 2017) |
I've merged in some info that was originally on the
denaturation page. However, I moved
denaturation to
Denaturation (Biochemistry), so refer to the latter for the page history.
--
Kieran 14:41, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
“ Ethanol” seems to cover denatured alcohol in about the same depth as does this article. Perhaps that content should be moved here, or this content should be moved there. — Fleminra 08:31, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
"...most of which are indeed toxic to humans, but not all." Does this mean there are some denatured alcohols that are not toxic to humans, or does this mean that there are some humans to whom denatured alcohol is not toxic? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pjedicke ( talk • contribs) 18:30, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
From the article:
What an irresponsible statement. Somebody needs to advise the CDC that
methanol isn't actually toxic after all.
--
Brianko (
talk)
00:10, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Meth BP is 65C while eth is 78C. These temps are sufficiently different for even a crudely made simple still to reduce the meth concentration below 1% with a single pass. This level is much less toxic considering it is mixed with eth. The bad tasting additives should have the property that they both remain in the wash, and contaminate the distillate. Chemicals with very low taste thresholds are used. 61.68.161.48 ( talk) 02:04, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
The statement is true and reference Alcohol Dehydrogenase Wiki. Enzyme prefers Ethanol over Methanol 7000:1 so in the presence of Ethyl alcohol, the Wood alcohol is "non-toxic" and excreted in urine or exhaled. The deaths attributed were for higher percentage Methyl alcohol to Ethyl alcohol ratios. TaylorLeem ( talk) 20:18, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
As seen above, there are a number of false "lead-into-gold" spam/rumors in this regard and the article probably needs to take care of not (unintentionally) propagating them. MeOh and EtOh separation is impossible via simple distillation (which is in no way as simple as using isolated boiling points), nor is their combined mixture in any way safe. cypher_zero_∅ 12:29, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
Often enough, mouthwash is denatured alcohol: the active ingredients in the mouthwash also serve as the denaturants. For example, the formula for S.D. Alcohol 37 (
27 CFR
21.64) is, in itself, fairly close to the formula for
Listerine. (Mouthwash is of course diluted with water, and Listerine also contains wintergreen in addition to mint, eucalyptus, and thyme oils.)
--
121a0012 (
talk)
05:46, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
The term is "methylated spirit" (singular) not "spirits", because there is only one spirit: the ethanol. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.107.43.169 ( talk) 23:54, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
I see it being sold under both names. See prescriptive vs descriptive. Also the "spirit" part is a verb (i.e. "to spirit") presumably originating from the breathing effect of the liquid, so it could be argued this is a conjugation. Either way this claim needs a citation. cypher_zero_∅ 12:37, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
Common use of Denatured Alcohol is cleaning of electronics. A cell phone that was dropped in water (especially salt water) can be soaked in this solution and in most cases can save a phone.
- ZeusBAP 19:11, 21 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zeusbap ( talk • contribs)
I'm not very familiar with Wikipedia policy, so I won't edit. But, just as an average joe reading this article the statement that says "the United States federal government denaturing program, by some estimates, had killed at least 10,000 people" seemed non-neutral. The assertion that the policy that mandates production of a solvent such that it is potentially lethal "killed" people is the start of a debate on the policy, not a neutral statement of fact.
I think it would be more neutral to write something like "Since the institution of the United States federal government denaturing program, some estimates indicate that at least 10,000 people have died from ingesting denatured alcohol products" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.134.3.102 ( talk) 04:33, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
Changing methanol in the formulation of British CDA to wood naphtha. The source given specifies "wood naphtha", which is further defined later on that page, and http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageExcise_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000263&propertyType=document states "Please note that methyl alcohol (methanol) is not identical to legally defined wood naphtha, or to any approved wood naphtha substitute". - 86.50.75.227 ( talk) 10:48, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
Some old page history that used to be at the title "denatured alcohol" can now be found at Talk:Denatured alcohol/Old history. Graham 87 14:20, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
"in countries where laws are written in passive voice" this is clearly some sort of prank. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.118.33.220 ( talk) 19:53, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
There is a link to "Denaturation (biochemistry)" at the beginning of the third paragraph of the intro section. This page describe the denaturation of proteins. A quick read of this page shows that the process of the denaturation of proteins described in this paragraph is not related to the denaturing of alcohol. As such, the link is misleading. Someone should remove it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.80.187.148 ( talk) 01:50, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi, not sure that stating that the additives are there to make it more Poisonous as it sounds like it is done deliberatly. Why would someone want to make ethanol more poisonous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pjones4981 ( talk • contribs) 15:05, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
It was done deliberately by the government to stop people from drinking. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2010/02/the_chemists_war.html Kortoso ( talk) 16:31, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
Immiscible liquids are easy to separate, I think what is meant is miscible. But it may be possible to separate miscible liquids by distillation. In any event we need a source for this statement. Martijn Meijering ( talk) 10:19, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
@Quercus solaris: you are edit warring. You're not supposed to remove a dubious tag as I reminded you in my edit message. Please restore the tags until we've had a discussion about this. Martijn Meijering ( talk) 18:18, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
There is a redirect from [ Alcohol 40-B] to here at Denatured alcohol with no explanation as to what "SD Alcohol 40-B" actually is. Could someone knowledgeable please address this? By reading this talk page I get the impression that it may be a US statute for a chemical mixture. 71.178.246.51 ( talk) 16:54, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
Perhaps the redirect would be better sent to here? 71.178.246.51 ( talk) 16:59, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
The citation for ""New Zealand has removed methanol from its government-approved "methylated spirits" formulation."" Has a link to a nonexistent page — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tellurium128 ( talk • contribs) 01:22, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
Should it not be mentioned that denatured alcohol is a petrochemical product? -- Luka1184 ( talk) 20:55, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
Typically denature with 10% Metanol. Pear wine is ~10% ethanol and 1% methanol (10% denatured) and is not considered toxic. Methanol toxicity is due to oxidation to Formaldehyde by the Alcohol Dehydrogenase enzyme. Fortunately human Alcohol Dehydrogenase prefers ethyl alcohol to methyl by 7000:1, so in essence Ethanol is the antidote to Methanol poisoning. The same enzyme also causes the damage from Ethylene Glycol poisoning. TaylorLeem ( talk) 20:08, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
This is one of many articles on Wikipedia where the title is a specifically US term, and it opens with a long list of countries that use a different term. The article would read better if the article was just about methylated spirits, and parenthetically menetions that they're called 'denatured alcohol' in the United States, so I think the title should be changed, and cross-references updated. (Some US editors often try to argue that the majority of the world's English speakers use the US term, but that's unlikely to be true in this case, because they're probably called metholated spirits in India. They definitely are in Malaysia.) MikZ ( talk) 17:42, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
Since Russian consumption of denatured alcohol is mentioned in the article, I think I should also provide a mention of the 2016 Irkutsk mass methanol poisoning, and a link to its Wikipedia page. I am new to Wikipedia so please anyone let me know if this seems appropriate and I will do it. 35drake ( talk) 20:51, 31 January 2023 (UTC)