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Delta Force is a nickname not an official name, and should be listed as such on the article page. The term Delta Force refers to a Chuck Norris movie by that title. This name is frowned upon in the actual community and if used at all should be listed under nicknames. All instances of Delta Force should be changed to Delta. -- SFjarhead 13:28, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
-- Good argument Necrothesp. Using that logic let's label the article on the French "Garlic-Smelling Surrender-Monkeys", change the title of Judaism to "'dem conspirin' jewz", George Bush's wiki to "Dubbya" or perhaps just "dumbass" and the articles on God to the "man upstairs" or Allah. You know, the general populace of the world and all. Friggin' computer-geek civilians. --EdTadk—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 170.110.245.176 ( talk • contribs) 03:47, 11 November 2005.
I agree, it is the common nickname for this unit. The article should remain the same; Delta Force title should be under the heading of nicknames.-- SFjarhead 01:55, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
How about the official title of the page be 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment - Delta and have Delta Force as a disambiguation page for links to this page, the game, and the movie? -- BenWoodruff 21:11, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Also, one of the linked PDFs states that DELTA recruits from all branches of service, yet the body of the article states that DELTA recruits only from the Army.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 169.253.4.21 ( talk • contribs) 08:18, 22 September 2005.
No Marine, Force Recon or otherwise, would even dream of going through selection for Delta. They draw 99% from the Army. Any transfers are likely to be Air Force Combat Controllers, which, from what I've seen, are better soldiers than anything the Army has to offer anyway. Just what I hear. Take it or leave it. Ooh Rah! - Dave—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.225.14.46 ( talk • contribs) 13:21, 28 October 2005.
The make-up is 100% Army, no Air Force Combat Controllers from what I know from my time at Bragg. To say the AF Combat Controllers are "better soldiers than the Army" is pretty funny. I've yet to see a Combat Controller with anywhere near the leadership experience of an 82d squad leader or the tactical expertise for that matter. I seriously doubt they're capable of leading the tactical movement of a platoon size element and the few I knew certainly weren't friggin' disciplined enough to put up with some of the stuff an average 11B has to deal with. Virgil61 01:36, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
I dont understand, if Delta is 100% Army, as stated above...why bother with the June, 2002 recruitment trip to Okinawa(USMC)?—The preceding
unsigned comment was added by
24.130.100.17 (
talk •
contribs) 08:53, 13 March 2006.
The June 2002 Recruitment trip is because there are Army Units (including One Battalion of the 1st Special Forces Group) on Okinawa at Torii Station. (This is -or was- all easily accessible Public knowledge). SFOD-Delta draws 100% from the Army, but their selection is open to every male soldier SPC and above (Branch Qualified Officers in the grade of O-3 or O-4), regardless of SF, Ranger or Airborne affiliation -- provided that they've completed most of their first enlistment (They will be sent to Airborne school prior to operator training if they pass the assessment phase -- Just like Special Forces). That means that SPC Joe the Cook can try out for it and --provided he's in the physical and mental shape and has the character to pass Selection and Assessment-- can become an operator. Additionally, Marines, Sailors and Airmen can service-transfer to the Army (that is, reenlist into, Ala Blue to Green) and then try out for Delta, but they have to transfer to the Army first and may not transfer back if they fail selection (At least until the end of their enlistment. The same is true of those in the Army who transfer into the Navy to become SEALs) -- Just like SAS, this open-selection was the intent of the unit in the first place in order to draw on the potential of all soldiers, not just those in Special Ops. That is, according both to Charlie Beckwith's book "Delta Force" and to the annual Perscom/HRC SFOD-D briefing announcements. SFOD-D briefings are held at least once a year on every major base in every major US ARMY command in the world. SFOD-D Briefing announcements with all of this information used to be available on the Perscom website prior to 2001. They have since been removed. -- A guy who actually pays attention.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.162.53.104 ( talk • contribs) 12:46, 24 April 2006.
delta force should remain the way it is.in every special forces guide or encyclopedia etc they are refered to as delta force not just delta.plus it is more recognizable as delta force also personally it sounds better.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.248.202.119 ( talk • contribs) 09:50, 10 August 2005.
Delta Force is such a clicheed, overused term. It is, indeed, cringed at by actual operators. Within the Army Delta Force is known as Delta, D-Boys, or just D. Members of the unit are referred to as 'Operators'. Rumor within military circles has it that the unit has been renamed to Combat Applications Group or CAG. Delta Force is just being thrown around too much, it seems. By comparison, look at the former Seal Team Six, which, due to the brazen blabbermouth Richard Marcinko, had to redesignate itself 'Naval Special Warfare Development Group', or DEVGRU. As secrecy in both the SEALS and Delta intensifies as the war on terror continues, there may come a time when special operators in either unit carry no designation whatsoever. Most direct ops are conducted as part of a Task Force anyway, e.g. Task Force 11 or 22 in Afghanistan, which is an amalgam of operators from all branches of the military. The point is, if the public overuses unit designations they are likely to be changed. Anon—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.225.14.46 ( talk • contribs) 13:29, 28 October 2005.
No, administratively they will always have some unit identifier, even if working under another unit commanding a taskforce. It's just the way the military is. Combat Applications Group does indeed refer to Delta, but is a very loose umbrella term. Gibson Cowboy 16:50, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
That's a good point about overuse. "Delta Force" is an amateurish handle used by civilians. I never heard it refered except as "Delta" while at USASOC. It really should reflect the actual name rather than silly-sounding popular convention. Virgil61 01:40, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
Okay, requiring the average person to type in Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta every time is rediculous. I understand the annoyance the special forces community has at the term "delta force," but that is the common name the public has for it. And unfortunately, most civilians don't have to deal with typical military designations so it's better to keep this simple. Gibson Cowboy 16:35, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
Revelations 04:32, 3 January 2006 (UTC) "Deltoids" is a term that I have DF members use when they are referring to others of their rank.
If Charlie Beckwith referred to it as Delta Force (
Delta Force at Amazon.com), then I think that Civvies and Wikipedia can get away with it, too.—The preceding
unsigned comment was added by
69.162.53.104 (
talk •
contribs) 12:50, 24 April 2006.
What about Delta's association with the British S.A.S rumor has it that they train together, looking at the qualifitcation list on the main page it seems like a lot of things are the same. The 40 mile hump the psychological testing all that good stuff....seeing that Delta is so secretive it seems that they are a lot like the S.A.S being so tied down yet given so many personnal freedoms.
There is a Delta Force series of movies. Two of the movies The Delta Force and Delta Force 2 already have Wiki pages. There is also a Delta Force video game which has a wiki. Why don't we make a Delta Force disambiguation page? We can give a link to the above and include Delta (US Special Operations Force) as one of the options. This would allow Wiki to have the correct name and allow for the uneducated masses to find the appropriate article. -- BenWoodruff 16:07, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
I tried to substantiate the recent diff with a cursory google search, and subsequently found nothing but a bunch of garbage by counterintelligence fanboys. I realize these things are hard to substantiate, but surely somebody can find something? Avriette 17:19, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
The only thing from that diff I've found that is accurate is the mention that delta recruits from any component (active, guard, reserve) etc. I'm inclined to believe that article is wrong because Delta's training program consists of extreme amounts of practice in MOUT tactics and weapons training (evidenced by Col. Beckwith's book about the creation of delta), and that their training program is very similar to both SFQC/SFAS, and SAS selection. I've never heard anything about any DAO group, but then again if it really existed that wouldn't surprise me. Swatjester 21:07, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
Diccussion transferred from Navy Seals because Delta Force is meant. ( MARK S. 14:42, 16 March 2006 (UTC))
Yes, Women cannot become Navy SEALs. The only SOF women can become, is Delta Force. This is only a rumour though! It's said there is a platoon within Delta Force called "Funny Platoon" made up of female personnel. Again, this may just be a rumour.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Steven89 ( talk • contribs) 23:11, 22 January 2006.
Deltas are -NOT- members of 1st SFGroup, but of the "Combat Applicatins Group", formerly known as "1st SFODetachment (Airborne) Delta", which was a separate unit with an ASF-Unit-Name for secrecy reasons. By the way, there are diffrent special forces web-sides where the existence of the "FUNNY PLATOON" IS CONSIDERD AS A MATTER OF FACT(!) ( MARK S. 19:26, 6 March 2006 (UTC))
You're a complete idiot if you think women don't hold combat arms positions in the US Army. Having lived for 3 years on an Army base as the spouse of a soldier I can tell you with 100% certainty that women do indeed hold combat arms positions. You've obviously never been to an army base or been to Iraq. If you were in Iraq you would see women manning machine guns on the gun line, going on raids, defending convoys, ect.....Irreguardless of what you think the MOS says women are 100% certainly serving in direct fire combat arms positions in Iraq and Afganistan as we speak. I would point out that a huge number of soldiers operate outside their MOS - daily. It's certainly sad to see an 74A or a 54B cleaning floors and cutting lawns on a daily basis
It would seem rather stupid to not have female members of Delta. Delta isn't just about guns and muscle it's about being able to slip in and out of places without being noticed. I hate to break it to you but women would often be less noticed than big muscled men.
QB —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.105.150.19 ( talk • contribs)
Verifiing actual matters officially classified can obviously not be substantiated by hard(official) sources (as everybody knows). Therefore all the sources I found are inofficial:
Possibly these sources do not meet scientific demands but they are an indication for the "Funny Platoon's existence. ( MARK S. 14:21, 16 March 2006 (UTC))
It's been on every major news channel in the US over the past 5 years that all branches of special forces in the US - Delta, Rangers, Seals, ect.. are now actively recruiting outside of the military. They are looking for the best possible people and it seems that they've finally figured out that the military isn't necessarily the best place to find them. They aren't just looking for people to pull triggers anymore. Why exactly wouldn't a women with a much higher IQ than the average enlisted soldier or trained savant fighter be just as good of choice as a guy who got a GED and spent 4 years as a medical clerk, mechanic or cook? Most nations outside the "Western" world use women as covert special ops. Women can be just as brutal and intelligent as any man. If they are good enough for the CIA and the NSA to use in similar positions why not Delta or Rangers?
As the wife of a soldier I have the greatest respect for our men and women in uniform. However, I can honestly say that not all of the soldiers in our military are not what anyone would consider top of the line or professional soldiers. When you're trying to select the "best of the best" from a pool that consists of less than 1% of the population you have to be realistic and know that your best isn't really anywhere near what the "best" could or should be. I can't count on my fingers how many soldiers I've seen who couldn't even grasp the English language well enough to take basic orders from there command or soldiers who didn't know how to preform basic math. Does it really take a genius to figure out why they finally started looking for outside placements or why women in a "Funny Platoon" would be preforming intelligence gathering?
A CAG Squadron consists of Approximately 50 operators. It is broken into three 16 man Troops; 2 Assault Troops, and 1 Sniper Troop. An Assault Troop consists of a four man Head Quarters element, Troop Commander, Troop Sergeant Major, Troop Communications Chief, and Troop Medic, and then 12 Assaulters, which are typically organized into three 4 man teams, or two 6 man team (referred to as "Heavy"), plus any attachments that there might be (i.e. such as CCT). A Sniper Troop, also consists of 16 operators, the same 4 man HQ elements, and then the other 12 Snipers are divided into two 6 man sections, which are further divided into 2 man sniper teams. A sniper team consists of a Sniper and an Observer (who is usually the Team Leader). CAG recruits from ALL of the different service branches (including the Coast Guard) of the Military unlike DEVGRU, which recruits exclusively from within the ranks of the Navy SEALs. They are THREE Operational Squadrons (A,B, and C). In addition, CAG Operators also serve as part of Intelligence Support Activity (also known as "The Activity", "Task Force Orange", and the "Army of Northern Virginia"), which conducts SR operations in Sensitive, Denied or Restricted territories, they also do things like Target Acquisition and TTL, using things like Blackbird systems, "Airscan", and other covert SIGINT. There is also a Tier above this, it is referred to as "PM" (Paramilitary). These are the Operators, who are discharged from the military and then are hired by PMCs and then go to work for groups such as SAD/SOG.
QB —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.105.150.19 ( talk • contribs)
Your MOS does not change when you enter Delta Force, nor does Delta Force recruit strictly from the 18 series MOS. SFOD-D is considered a Special Mission Unit (SMU), not a Branch. According to Douglas Waller's extensively researched 1993 book " The Commandos" an idea that involved Female operators was experimented with briefly in the 1980s but dropped almost immediately as unworkable (but not until after some women had gone through a modified selection and assessment course). Waller provides his Sources in the appendix of the book, including JSOC staff and Delta Operators, so I'm inclined to take him at his word. However -- according to the same sources the "Funny Platoon" does currently exist. It is a Military Intelligence platoon attached to SFOD-D. Women can hold nearly any MI position (exceptions being the S2 in Infantry and Armor battalions -- though they can serve as S2 in Engineer and Aviation BNs as well as at the Brigade level), so I see no reason to dismiss the idea out of hand, especially since women can serve in SOCOM in CA and PsyOp capacities.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.162.53.104 ( talk • contribs) 13:20, 24 April 2006.
the previous comment is correct. females can hold any position in a support unit, such as special forces support or ranger support. the same would hold true for a support unit for delta. Parsecboy 21:41, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
I saw on the discovery channel(maybe discovery times channel?) SF women in the feild in Afghanistan to search the women there ect... is that considered a "support role"? They caried the same combat gear as the males. Sorry i can't provide a link. -Stowic
Stowic 01:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Just wanted to add my three cents. I am a former soldier (Afghan 1x, Iraq 1x)..I was NOT under the Special Operations command, but I DID train with several Special Forces ODAs as well as two different groups that were referred to as 'Delta' while I was in Iraq. The only reason I was able to do this is because I was a patrol/explosives detection dog handler. They 'Delta' guys also employed the use of a dog, and therefore we would combine training events with them. No question was ever asked directly, "Are you delta?"..."Are you CIA?"..or the like, simply because they didnt bring it up and I felt it better not to break the training relationship we had. After leaving Iraq I received emails from "1st SFOD-D" on a semi regular basis which provided basic information on applying to attend their selection course. 1st SFOD-D also holds regular briefings at all major Army installations. As I read in the emails: Pre-requisites included E-4/0-3 and above, GT and PT scores at a certain level. I was an MP, so that goes to show that ANY MOS may apply for selection. Those in SOCOM are perhaps better suited for the rigors of such a position, but any MALE soldier meeting those basic requirement may try out. Females do alot, as we see in the news consistently, they fill spy roles with the CIA and other government groups, but 1st SFOD-D is strictly a group of MALE soldiers that perform all sorts of covert/direct-action/special reconnaissance scary shit that I wouldnt want to do. But the fact remains they are MALE and they are SOLDIERS. -DavidM
A show on TV (history channel?) on capturing Pablo Escobar (cocaine kingpin in Columbia in the 1990s) said the Delta force was heavily involved in Columbia as part of that effort (as part of the US response to the President of Columbia's request for help). 4.250.138.184 18:03, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
This should be expanded ; Killing Pablo gives more details about Delta implication, and is more reliable about the role of Delta advisers for the Search bloc. Rob1bureau 13:10, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
I agree, on the History Channel Special "Killing Pablo" they go into good detail about the involvment of Delta Force ans Sentra (sp?) Spike. They had a huge role in the killing of pablo and it should be added to there missions.
69.129.67.253 15:47, 20 April 2007 (UTC) PS Im at work so I cant sign in but Im Gundam94.
I believe there is some speculation that Delta was involved in the raid that ended the Japanese embassy hostage crisis in Lima, Peru a few years back. Anyone have any vis on this? I also remember seeing a video that was shot right after the incident where the raid force all gathered in a courtyard and were supposed to be singing the Peruvian national anthem and there were obviously some very European looking individuals who had no idea what the words to the song were. They were just moving their lips to make it look like they were singing. Am I way off on this or is there anything official that may warrant mentioning it in the article?
I heard the rumor too, but nothing to substantiate it. ⇒ SWATJester eady Aim Fire! 06:26, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, found on GlobalSecurity.org : A small advance team was sent to Lima, Peru immediately following the takeover of the Japanese Ambassador's residence in January 1997 along with six members of the British SAS.. Delta can frequently operate "observators" and/or support teams, as it is said for Brigadier General James L. Dozier kidnapping.
In recruitment it says that Delta is only for Army green berets and Rangers who want to try out for it(or are asked I guess). However, links under Background show a recruitment ad for all military personel to come to a 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta orientation. It lists a bunch of requirements that someone must first have but it specifically states that Delta is open to people from other services.
Which one is right? Is delta open to all branches or not? It's a little unclear. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Docbrown777 ( talk • contribs)
69.162.53.104 is wrong on the airborne standards ( i realize, nitpicking). they are not 70-70-70, they are 60-60-60. i attended jump school in nov. 2004, and unless they've changed since then (which is highly unlikely) that's what they remain. Parsecboy 21:47, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Last time I was by Ft. Benning (earlier this year) the PT standard was 60 60 60 to pass the army standard: BUT US Army Airborne school required a 70-70-70 by the start of Tower Week. SFAS requires a 70-70-70 minimum, on top of the required standards for airborne school and army standard. ⇒ SWATJester Ready Aim Fire! 01:20, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
since when do you take a 2nd pt test at jump school? there isn't enough time for 2 pt tests. although, my roommate actually got back from jump school today, so i'll ask him when he's around. i'll let you know what he says... Parsecboy 00:43, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
Read again what I said: You don't take 2 PT tests: But if your first PT test you score 60-60-60, you have to improve by Tower Week. Like I said, things may have changed, but ask your friend, I'd like to know for certain. And regardless it doesn't matter: SFAS requires 70-70-70. ⇒ SWATJester Ready Aim Fire! 14:32, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
i realize what you said. but in the army, if you don't prove it on paper (i.e., on a pt test) nothing has occurred. and even if what you say is the standard, there aren't too many nco's in the army who care enough to actually verify progress without being forced to hold a 2nd pt test. Parsecboy 22:44, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
One of several operations in which Delta Force operators are thought to have played important roles was the invasion of Iraq in 2003. They allegedly entered Baghdad in advance, undercover with long hair and moustaches..
The last bit of that seems like it could be false. As it happens, I don't know that much about the subject, and am most probably wrong, hence why I didn't make a change. Just let me know if I did correctly, so that I can learn in future.-- Dreaded Walrus 03:13, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, it "could be false" hense the reason the line says "thought to have played". Anything about Delta is difficult to verify. However, there are many pictures in the book "Black Hawk Down" of Operators with shaggy hair and thick mustaches while in the Mog. Also, I know some of the SF guys first on the ground in Afghanistan after 9/11 and they all have heavy, native-style beards in their photos - Rezdave 12 May '07
My husband has pictures of his time in Iraq of going on raids with special forces and they were wearing dark tennis shoes and nothing even close to regulation uniforms longer dirty hair and beards.
Fiction, as defined by the Oxford American Dictionary: "Invention or fabrication as opposed to fact." Folks have been persistently editing this article with citations from The Unit, a show on CBS; 24, a show on FOX; and Deception Point, a novel by Dan Brown; among others — and these citations are, to say the least, inappropriate. Small wonder the mainstream doesn't take this project seriously, if you're going to publish an encyclopedia that asserts certain facts to be true based on their depiction in dramatic works. Cribcage 04:43, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
I've been doing my best to remove any such edits. It's a disrespect to Delta operators that such assertions and citations exist. Anyway, that's why we have a "Delta force in popular culture" section. ⇒ SWATJester Ready Aim Fire! 14:34, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
I've put together a list of Delta soldiers that have died in action since the beginning of the unit. Given the secrecy of the unit, a death is one of the few times the unit is even somewhat tacitly acknowledge by the Pentagon, which doesn't even list the unit in the press release announcing the soldier's death, choosing only to say the soldier was assigned to Headquarters, U.S. Army Special Operations Command. I think this would be a good addition to this page but wanted to run it past others before adding to the page. Thanks. Dsw 11:06, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Problem is, you generally can't verify which unit KIA's come from, and even if you could, you certainly couldn't verify that they were delta. If you can't verify it, you can't include it. ⇒ SWATJester Ready Aim Fire! 20:09, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
The article seems to be a bit confusing. This is typical when it is contributed and then edited. I think that reorganizing it would be beneficial.
First the "background" section jumps right into the failed 1980 mission then goes on some random tangents. I think starting over or deleting the section entirely. I think that "Delta force in modern conflicts" could be changed to "Delta in conflicts" and include all operations including the ones listed in the Second "Operations".
Maybe expanding some sections and adding some, like people credited with delta's formation. Also the term "Delta Force" is used a bit too much and though it is common in popular culture it is kind of annoying to some. Delta would be just fine. It is like people who say "PIN Number" which is redundant and annoying because the "N" Stand for number already. Anyways, "Delta" or "1st SFOD-D" would be better then delta force
Well there is a bunch of changes I think could stream line things and improve flow, just want to hear other's idea before anything is done. Mantion 21:38, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
Is/are there any legal citations for claims made in this portion of the article? The legal standing described in the "Immunity" section seems rather improbable for several reasons: PDD 25 ( http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/pdd25.htm) is a Clinton era document dealing with peacekeeping operations and while a sitting President can pardon someone for past crimes (think of Nixon and Ford) a President has no authority to exempt anyone from the laws of the United States. Even the president of the United States is not exempt from the law. Again, any valid citations suggesting that the President of the US can simply exempt someone (FBI, CIA, military, or the Boy Scouts) from the law? If not, perhaps the section should be removed.
It's true that they have presidential inmunitty? thanks...
It is what someone has written in the page some time ago, but it's probably false as said above your own message. I don't know the laws problems, but it seems that the President of the U.S. can't give imunity to anyone. Rob1bureau 18:08, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
This section, particularly the reference to MEMS (microbots), makes absolutely no sense at all. What is the point of microbot techonolgy in the overall context of Delta? How and why are they applied or used? Where is the citation documentation? This needs a serious rewrite or should be eliminated. Sduplessie 01:28, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
I think it is plainly obvious that many special operations forces use non-standard equipment. Perhaps a discussion about how this is done is in order. The issue of 1911 use brings the issue up for me here. I dont' doubt its use by members of Delta or other special units. It is merely not the only one. I have seen references to Delta using HK USP Tactical Pistols, Glock 19, and even the ubiquitous Beretta 92. Stating that the pistol of choice is a personally bought highly customized 1911 is disingenuous, and does not give an accurate portrayal of what is used and carried by these soldiers. The fact that they have discretion is not disputed, just the portrayal here is remarkably one sided. Smash05
The stipend for the personal 1911, however, is unusual even amongst the discretion given to both "vanilla" SF group, and other elements of SOCOM. Fact is, Delta has free reign to use basically whatever the hell they want, but as we have a clear, very good source for the 1911, we need to keep it in there. ⇒ SWATJester Denny Crane. 00:49, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Someone added a bit about the HK416 that was uncited and seems to violate NPOV. Also as noted in a conversation above - I think a well regarded weapons magazine may not be a good enough source on the 1911 issue. I hate to be picky but it irks me for reasons I will get into if someone wants me to. Anyway I would like to see a citation for information on the HK416 - and perhaps alot of this information belongs in an equipment section. Smash05 19:52, 14 March 2007 (UTC)Smash05
I cleaned up the 416 section: the weapons platform is not new, it's a marketing trick by HK to repackage the AR system. It's had lots of issues itself in testing, and gas piston AR15's have been around for some time before the 416, just none with HK's slick marketing and branding system. Also, the article as written makes the M4 sound like direct impingement systems are horribly unreliable, which is patently untrue. I've neutralized the tone. ⇒ SWATJester Denny Crane. 00:51, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
I reinstated the Larry Vickers page and am rewriting it. ⇒ SWATJester Denny Crane. 00:56, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Thing is though, criticism of the direct impingement system is listed on the M16 (rifle) and M4 carbine pages, as well as on another page, can't remember the exact title but it's like Comparison between the AK47 and the M16. It's only tangentially related to Delta, so it doesn't belong in this article; that said, nothing stopping it from inclusion elsewhere. ⇒ SWATJester Denny Crane. 15:58, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
I added more to the HK416 and HK417 along with sources, and made a seperate section for weaponary because it seems to be such a hot topic. I also expanded Larry Vicker's section, and plan to help create a page for him once I find more sources (other then his personal webpage). I also plan to create a page for issues with the M4/M16 to it's possible in the future that less of those issues have to be highlighted in these passages. The Army Times ( http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/02/atCarbine070219/) spacifically states that only Delta Force and other special forces units are going to see the new HK carbines so I feel that it is fitting to mention them. -- There is no replacement for displacement. 13:29, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
I changed instances of the M14 to the M21 because this is the military term for the rifle. Although the original author mentioned the M14 because that is how it is referred to in Black Hawk Down by Mark Bowden, the author of that book only used the term M14 because he felt his readers would not be familiar with the more obscure term "M21". -- There is no replacement for displacement. 14:23, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
As far as I've understood, Shughart's weapon was an accurized, modified M14, but was not an M21, or later M25. However, the M21 is highly in use within Delta, more currently as the M25 variant, and I've edited the article to reflect it as such. ⇒ SWATJester Denny Crane. 00:48, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Its nothing that says this in the article, but does Delta recruit foreign soldiers? I think I have heard that Delta asks soldiers from foreign special forces, like the British SAS and the German KSK (and other special force units they cooperate with), if they'd like to join Delta (if they have impressed Delta in some kind of way). Of course after they'd been put through the same tests as normal recruits. On link under this text it says: "Delta conducts worldwide recruitment twice a year prior to its fall and spring assessment-and-selection courses."
Link: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/sfod-d.htm
Anyone who can answer my question?
i dont understand why you deleted my entry.according to the government devgru and delta dont exist. the gov didnt say devgru participated in raid but is only speculated by the media. cia sad operatives dont "exist" either, however, it is speculated that they do exist and participated in the raid. whos to say that delta ( a unit that government doesnt acknowledge) didnt participate in the raid?
Read the two links I posted on your talk page. If you still have questions, come back here and ask them. Rklawton (talk) 02:40, 17 May 2011 (UTC) delta in neptune spear is not a personal speculation. devgru in neptune spear is also a speculation because its a still a classied mission. the government only says its a navy seal team and the media speculates that its devgru. however, both delta and devgru cross train. if you want to be technical about it. one of the commentators on the discovery channel's "killing bin laden" suggested that delta was involved. is that enough for me to post? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.170.153.141 ( talk) 04:10, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
Use official sources EG: CNN, White House, NBC etc.. Otherwise it will be deleted, although they may have participated in the raid there is lack of evidence to support the theory. As I hear ACE was on another mission, while the other Tier 1 unit took out OBL. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
58.170.230.156 (
talk) 11:48, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
Hello gents, I posted randomely throughout the talk page different things that needed to be changed and some small tidbits of intel that some of you guys got wrong. But I figured nobody would see them in the large amounts of garbage I have come accross on here.
I served 4 years with the 3rd Ranger Bn, deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. I served and lived with operators overseas both times to Iraq and I think my information is a little more valuable then the random websites you find on.
Some of the things that seem to trouble you people:
Patch/Uniform- -Delta wears the insignia of USASOC (red flash, USASOC Distinguished Unit Insignia, USASOC shoulder patch). -For their berets, they retain their previous unit berets (my knowledge of this is only limited to the former SOF guys).. if you were Ranger Regiment you retain your tan beret, if you were SF you retain your Green Beret. IDK what goes on with the former black beret wearing guys.
Weapons- During the no shit direct action raids; assaulters use HK416, sidearms almost all operators use either the special made 1911 made by Larry Vickers, or Glocks.
All weapons and equipment are mission dependent, remember that.
Equipment- Pro-Tec helmet? I dont know when this took place, but not during the GWOT. Operators use the MICH variant "Shorty", and its still kevlar... Plastic does not help against the dangers of Iraq or Afghanistan. Night vision goggles are a specially made variant of the helicopter pilot utilized AVS-6s. The unofficial nickname for these are the ANVS9s. They are dual tubed but they differ greatly from the PVS-15s that Regiment uses and require a huge battery pack in the back of the helmet.
Casualties- All the casualties listed below are part of Delta, but Zaun is the only one who is not an operator.
Training Video- Yes its Delta, no it is not meant for public release or military release. It is showed during the first day of Selection in order to motivate the students.
Don't change the information in the article, I don't care. This is more of me targeting you guys to be more informed.
Please excuse me for I have limited access to outside sites @ my job. A few weeks ago, I had posted an article on here regarding a video that was posted on YouTube. Now, we all can understand and respect that YouTube isn't always a factual place. However, last week, the Pentagon had issued a statement on "Around The Services" on the Military Channel regarding a video of the CAG that was posted.
Now, I had gone in depth regarding this particular subject, as it would be the first real recording of Delta Operators every released and it has been removed without justification or cause. If it has been removed for security purposes or what not, understood. Im a former soldier and wouldnt want my ugly mug posted all over the internet. I just would like an explanation as to what has caused this particular informational piece (which was decidely neutral in its portrayal) was removed.
Also, the methods and equipment are military doctrine for hostage rescue plus the locale and use of weapons in the what appears to be Iraqi AO's would mitigate against that. I know this is a place of discussion. What do you think? I have the vid at home and its pretty impressive and I think its the real deal, IMHO. I mean this is the first real video glimpse into the unit itself and its shock and awe tactics. Mcase07 21:13, 22 August 2007 (UTC)Mcase07
At this point and with correspondence to the Special Operations Command in Florida, I will not be posting the link to this video. Furthermore, I have requested it be deleted from YouTube yet again. The precedence for this is located in USC somewhere which I would rather not get into but I have been asked to keep the video under wraps and to not provide further information for personnel and operational security purposes. Our enemy uses the same resources as we do afterall. Let us not make it too easy on them. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mcase07 ( talk • contribs) 20:27, August 23, 2007 (UTC).
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ho2bWl3Y2RA check it out —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.57.187.41 ( talk) 06:56, August 25, 2007 (UTC)
Is this the video to which you are referring? It must not be that big a deal, if Military.com is posting it. It does seem legit though. Parsecboy 18:07, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
the SoCom Combat Assault Rifle/Mk16 and Mk17 to commandos in April. In a bland release from the company's PA shop, FN says fielding will continue through the winter of 2009. A source close to the program tells me so far the Rangers have gotten their new rifles, with Navy Special Warfare Combatant-Craft Crewmen and SEAL teams 1, 2 and 3... from Defense Tech - May 13, 2009
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/004844.html
Delta force changed its standard weapon from the M4A1CQB to the HK-416 since 2004 . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.132.48.229 ( talk • contribs) Sources:i found the article in Armytimes magazine and here is the link :www.armytimes.com/news/2007/02/atCarbine070219/ .
i dont know why its not working but you can read the article on yahoo ..just write HK-416 new delta weapon on yahoo search and it will be the first search result ( better than the M4 but the army cant have it )
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.132.48.229 ( talk) 10:32, August 23, 2007 (UTC)
An article by Vickers about the HK416 : http://www.hkpro.com/hk416.htm. He says that "All the key Units in JSOC chose the HK416 in preference to the current M4 and the FN SCAR Light which is still in development for the rest of SOCOM." Rob1bureau 20:04, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't know that it has an official name, but it appears that Delta did security for the Seattle WTO meeting, as seen here: Delta's down with it Tmaull 04:07, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Since the Army not commit on delta activity , so casualties in both Afghanistan and Iraq are not released but listed as : HQ US Army special operation command .-- Jonybond 08:34, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
So give your list (and your sources if possible please) ! Rob1bureau 20:04, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
List of Delta casualties in Iraq :
1-Master Sgt. George A. Fernandez / April 2, 2003 / small arms fire / North of Iraq.
2-Sgt. 1st Class Mickey E. Zaun / Jan. 28 , 2005 / Non Hostile / Mosul, Iraq.
3-Sgt. 1st Class Steven M. Langmack / May 31 , 2005 / small arms fire / Al Qaim, Iraq.
4-Master Sgt. Robert M. Horrigan / June 17 , 2005 / Hostile fire / Al Qaim, Iraq.
5-Master Sgt. Michael L. McNulty / June 17 , 2005 / Hostile fire / Al Qaim, Iraq.
6-Sgt. 1st Class Trevor J. Diesing / August 25, 2005 / IED attack / Husaybah, Iraq.
7-Master Sgt. Ivica Jerak / August 25, 2005 / IED attack / Husaybah, Iraq.
8-Sgt. 1st Class Obediah J. Kolath / August 25, 2005 ( died on August 28 in Germany ) / IED attack / Husaybah, Iraq.
Note / A Ranger died along the above three in the same attack
9-Master Sgt. Joseph J. Andres, Jr. / Dec. 24, 2005 / Hostile fire / Baqubah, Iraq ( Died in Balad ).
10-Sgt. 1st Class Lance S. Cornett / Feb. 3, 2006 / Hostile fire / Ar Ramadi, Iraq
11-Sgt. 1st Class Richard J. Herrema / April 25, 2006 / Hostile fire / Baghdad, Iraq .
12- Master Sgt. Benjamin Stevenson / July 21, 2011 / Hostile fire / Paktika province, Afghanistan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.100.154.236 ( talk) 14:05, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
--
82.116.149.190 21:48, 23 October ,2007 (UTC)
Thank you, but please specify your source(s) (where you found it) and what unit the were officialy assigned. Rob1bureau 11:46, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Here is your source : http://www.icasualties.org/oif/Service.aspx They are all mentioned to be assigned to US ARMY Special operation headquarters.
Also here is a casuality in Afghanistan :
Sgt. 1st Class Speer, Christopher J. / Aug. 7 ,2002 / Hostile - hostile fire / Ab Khail Afghanistan
Zaun was not an operator. He was part of their Support element. The rest are operators. I knew Trevor and Ivica, very tragic. By the way, many operators claim William "Chief" Carlson as a Delta casualty. He retired and joined the CIA shortly after where he along with a former DEVGRU operator died in Afghanistan.
D. - Former 3/75th —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.207.120.233 ( talk) 04:27, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
People the army switched to M9 Beretta and that includes Delta ..I know a guy in Green beret who said all army units now are using M9 .-- Max Mayr 21:09, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Well the Green Beret Guy is operator with the 3rd Battalion of the 3rd special force group Fort Bragg N.C. that all what i can say .-- Max Mayr 10:16, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
OK. I will contact him and see if he can help me with this -- Max Mayr 11:19, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes any and all verifiable information regarding the Combat Applications Group is welcome. Of course, be advised, some things are ALWAYS open to debate. Mcase07 ( talk) 02:46, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Delta and JSOC in general do not use just the standard US weapons. They use some of everything. JSOC and a mixture of special forces users were behind the Heckler & Koch MK23 Mod 0. I've seen pictures and had reports from Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere of late of Delta operators still using M1911s, a Glock or two, a Mk23, and a couple of revolvers. Also some Berettas, Sig M10, a Glock 18 machinepistol, and at least one guy with a Mini-Uzi in the thigh strap holster. Georgewilliamherbert 01:32, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
They use HK23 Mod 0 in order to put a silencer , you cant put a silencer to berreta -- Blain Toddi 22:55, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
The above comment is why I have no faith in the accuracy of articles on wiki...it is simply wrong. You can put a suppressor on any rifle or pistol with the right barrel and the proper suppressor for that weapon. If people who knew what they were talking about were the only ones writing things here there would be a LOT less space taken up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.121.98.15 ( talk) 12:17, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Fundamentally, any weapon can be modified in order to introduce it to a suppressed fire environment. Delta and JSOC have specially trained operators that are some of the VERY best gunsmiths in the world for this matter. To return to the foundation of the 1911 argument, as stated in the article, Delta Operators have been issued a stipend in which they can purchase an m1911a1 of their own preference, be it Kahr Arms, Para-Ordnance et al. They may retrofit and have their arms customized in order to have a LAM or Light Module, in the configuration they please. Great Delta Operator Larry Vickers was one of the very best gunsmiths before, during and after his Delta term, hence his design with the help of HK of the 416. I agree that there should be no nominal discussion regarding the weapons use, modification et al, as there is too much room for discussion from those who found out from a friend of a friend. What I have provided is a nominal explanation that any sidearm, regardless of stock or modified can be suppressed whether or not effectively is for debate. Mcase07 ( talk) 02:46, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Pistols that are and have been in Delta's inventory include Colt 1911A1 .45's as well as those manufactured versions by other sources as mentioned above and these are used with a suppressor when required. The Beretta has never as far as ive heard or read been used by Delta, all sources have stated this is because the Operators consider it to lack the "stopping power" that comes with the .45 round which has become an unwritten rule in Delta. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Mercenary 73 ( talk • contribs) 22:19, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
I have changed the title from "Famous Delta Force Operators" to "Notable Delta Operators". Reason for this, is that you would think these particular people were movie stars (though Eric Haney could be debatable due to his work with "The Unit"). It is rather distinguished that the operators are rather more Notable due to contributions, operations, citations or private sector work or entertainment. Therefore, they are not "famous" in the vein of a Tom Cruise or Eric Bana. Mcase07 22:17, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't think its a good idea to post actual information about Delta Force and other secret organizations because the Government might not want the information to be seen. General Mannino ( talk) 21:53, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
I am somewhat worried by the comments here (not just this section) saying that the info is classified so it should be removed or that one of the editors has been in contact with some division of the army which has told them to remove it. Wikipedia does not belong to one country, nor does it operate under any particular government. This means that any NPOV, referenced, relevant material should be added to the article, whether it's classified or not. If the US governemnt then decides to filter the information in the same way that China has censored most of wikipedia (at least when i was there a few years ago) then it can. However, editors should not take it upon themselves to censor information from the whole world. Despite this, everything must be referenced from reliable sources, rather than fan sites etc. 78.105.191.12 ( talk) 18:42, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
Is the sidenote about Ranger hair styles necessary? 141.161.119.79 ( talk) 16:52, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
It was stated in Black Hawk Down that Delta operators wore Pro-tec helmets instead of standard issue kevlar helmets due to CAG's special role in hostage rescue (they were more concerned with bumping and scraping their heads because of their fast operation is what i recall the book was saying). Should that be listed in the article and also is it possible that by now Delta may have custom helmets made for them, since "What Delta wants, Delta gets"? Tsurugi ( talk) 17:33, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
I also remembering hearing something about their helmets on the History Channel. Akadewboy ( talk) 10:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
I have never witnessed an operator wear a pro-tech helmet overseas. They wear Kevlar helmets, they are not stupid and reckless. A pro-tec is not going to save you from the hazards in Iraq and Afghanistan. Things change, but currently they use kevlar helmets, a model called the "shorty". A shorty is a modified MICH that you CAN purchase, it has extra room on the sides for a headset.
-D. Former 3/75th —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.207.120.233 ( talk) 03:57, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
I read in the book that they did use the plastic helmets rather than their kevlar for that mission (but it was not a common thing). The reason being it was suppost to be a fast mission and they didn't think there was much risk of being shot in the head. But when the mission went to hell atleast two operators were killed because they were hit in the helmet.-- 70.76.166.171 ( talk) 19:50, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
The book says Pro-tec for that mission, so it's Pro-tec until some other reliable source says it isn't. That's how we roll here on Wikipedia. Rklawton ( talk) 19:54, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
his talking about somalia no iraq/afghan, now they're probably using FAST or short cut MICH (2002) helmets 58.174.240.205 ( talk) 01:50, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
Someone added back what they claim is the beret flash for Delta. This is absurb. First, ALL beret flashes authorized by the Army Institute of Heraldry are the same shape. There are no triangles. Second, what kind of sense does a seperate flash make? If the Army tries to keep the unit under wraps or at least reasonably low key, why would they authorize not only a special flash, but one that was a completely different shape than any other flash, which would make these guys identifiable at 100 friggin yards? That patch isn't even a real one authorized by the Institute of Hearldry. It is a fake made up by a private company in the mid 1980's. Niteshift36 ( talk) 05:42, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Delta wears the red USASOC flash, accompanied by the USASOC Distinguished Unit Insignia. Delta operators do have Class A standards; they have to wear something at the ceremony of a fallen. This is what I know for a fact; Operators wear the beret of their previous unit; whether Ranger tan, or SF Green. I do not know what the non Ranger or SF experienced operators wear.
D. -Former 3/75 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.207.120.233 ( talk) 04:04, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Is beyond gay, it makes the article like some kind of friggin video game you can buy. And I haven't the slightest idea how anyone can talk with authority about this unit. -some 11 bang bang fag —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.173.147.79 ( talk) 07:44, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I agree. The list is pretty bogus and is another addition made up to pack out the article. Also, where the ref's for this as most of the wpn's added are either standard issue or down to someones assumption. Delta, more than any other SF unit, have a vast array of kit which is tailored to the op in hand ( Archangel1 ( talk) 00:44, 4 September 2008 (UTC)).
I've added an outcome section to the Operations list, since otherwise it's just a list of operations, giving no idea of what actually happened in them. -- MoltenBoron ( talk) 16:16, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
The language in this article needs to be changed to continue with the NPOV policy. ( Archangel1 ( talk) 14:12, 13 November 2008 (UTC)).
There are literally thousands of sources which detail SEAL involvement in the B of M. John Gay, a SEAL, was shot, his Randall knife deflecting the round. It is discussed here [6]. Dick Couch, in his book "Finishing School" details the account of Eric Olson, who rose to be commander of SEAL Team 6, and his involvement in the B of M. Bowden touches on this in Black Hawk Down as well. Simply put, read the book more closely. Search Google. Read other accounts of the battle, it's there...and quite obvious. SpartanSWAT10 ( talk) 14:12, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
First, is the Delta Force under the Joint Command, or US Army command? There is nothing about it in the United States Army Special Operations Command.
Second, what's the actual patch of the Delta Force? Why would they wear patch of the whole USASOC? Where is the source? (if it's not under the US Army, then it doesn't make any sense at all) -- Novis-M ( talk) 03:05, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Why don't we use this patch as the official insignia of Delta Force? It is really weird that on the website of the USACOM there is nothing about Delta Force. Only on the website of Joint Command, but that is different branch. I don't see how is the Delta Force part of the Army then. It is same with the globalsecurity.org article, nothing about Delta Force in the US Army Spec Ops Command article, only in the Joint Command again - because the Joint Com is separate and independent, along with USASOC, Navy spec command, and marine spec ops command. -- Novis-M ( talk) 04:19, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
Delta wears the USASOC patch, the red arrowhead that the 160th wears. You won't find a source, but I know because they have told me. Add if you want, or don't I dont care.. just stop with your ignorant assumptions. And you might be the only one who uses ARSOC; USASOC is most commonly used.
D. - Former 3/75th —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.207.120.233 ( talk) 04:16, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
This is my first time posting, and I am not completely aware of all posting standard, so please bare with me.
Flyinggr ( talk) 19:48, 16 May 2009 (UTC)Flyinggr
I removed the following section, which has been tagged as not being supported by any reliable sources since Nov 08. Please reinstate information only if supporting citations can be incorporated. — Eustress talk 01:22, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Operation | Country | Year | |
---|---|---|---|
Operation Eagle Claw | Iran | 1980 | |
Operation Urgent Fury | Grenada | 1983 | |
Operation Acid Gambit | Panama | 1989 | |
Operation Just Cause | Panama | 1989 | |
Operation Desert Shield | Iraq | 1990 | |
Operation Desert Storm | Iraq | 1991 | |
Operation Restore Hope | Somalia | 1993 | |
Operation Gothic Serpent | Somalia | 1993 | |
Operation Enduring Freedom | Afghanistan | 2001 | |
Operation Anaconda (subordinate operation to OEF) |
Afghanistan | 2002 | |
Operation Iraqi Freedom | Iraq | 2003 | |
Operation Vigilant Resolve | Iraq | 2004 |
Eagle Claw has been well documented. There is no reason to remove it from this section. In fact, I just reviewed the first four items, and all are documented in their respective articles. I'm thinking this tag was added in error. Alternatively, we just need to duplicate the citations used in the linked articles - which seems to be a waste of space. Readers wanting more information about Delta's involvement in these campaigns can simply click on the relevant article and check out its references. Rklawton ( talk) 01:35, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
I've restored the text and removed the tag. It's a list of linked articles. The references are in those articles. If the list contained items without links, then yes, those items would need references in this article, but that's not the case. Rklawton ( talk) 01:46, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
If there are parts of the article that are unverifible, we should pin-point them and remove them, especially on such a controversial topic. Also what exactly is "eliminating covert enemy forces (where in the U.S.?)" and isn't this opinion "It is composed of the best special operators and soldiers of the Army who are carefully selected in special processes." Also in the intro do we really need to talk about other CT units, wouldn't that be best for the history section or maybe create an overview section? Also is any of the unregistered editors check the discussion, are the edit summaries to much to ask for? But, what do I know I "am" not an admin :) Aaron mcd ( talk) 05:58, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
Is this article really a start class? If has, reliable (for the most part) sources, and is free of major grammatical errors. Maybe it deserves a C class? Aaron mcd ( talk) 03:10, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
There is no way that a book that describes the selection process at its inception in 1979 can be a reliable source on what the current selection process looks like today. In order to be accurate and not speculate, the text needs to reflect this. Presenting this information with the current sources is misleading. I don't really think there is a valid argument that a 29-year old account can be considered current. — Ocatecir T 07:33, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
The last sentence mentions needing an ASVAB score of at least 110. The only problem is that the ASVAB caps out at 99. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.19.85.85 ( talk) 08:52, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
You need a GT score of 110, not ASVAB score of 110. Just a simple mistake. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
97.100.43.133 (
talk) 19:31, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
I question the statement that the Aviation Branch may have at least some enlisted helicopter pilots. No branch of the US military has had enlisted pilots since WW2. Most Army helo pilots are warrant officers, and while many if not most WOs come from the enlisted ranks, they cannot be considered enlisted people.
It is possible that the author intended to state that Delta "grows its own" pilots from within its ranks, but that's just a conjecture on my part. In any case, this statement should be verified. Unless & until it is confirmed, it should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.130.56.152 ( talk) 01:53, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
Shouldn't the History section reflect more of Beckwith's 15 year (or so) struggle to convince Army brass to create the unit? He initially presented a full report to the Army immediately upon his return from the SAS in the early 60's, highlighting the Army's vulnerability in not having an SAS-type unit. He rewrote and re-presented that report several times and risked his career several times, trying to force the point, for many years. Finally, in the mid 70s, when terrorist threats became high profile, the Pentagon tapped him to go ahead with his idea. The article makes it sound too simple: "He briefed military and government figures, who were also impressed with the SAS concept." Like he presented the idea and they said the word go right away. Anyone agree? All of the above info is in Beckwith's memoir, by the way. Rljkerns ( talk) 18:15, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
The official designation is not the 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta anymore it is the 1st Combat Applications Group, according to the US Federal Government. I would provide a link but it also has were 'Delta' trains and their missions so I cannot. -- 124.180.150.164 ( talk) 10:26, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
One (or more) users are repeatedly adding the word "rumored" as to the existence of this unit. Given the number of sources spelling out its existence, I think "rumored" isn't appropriate and should not be used here. Thoughts? Rklawton ( talk) 02:14, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
Please do not add speculation about Delta's role in Osama's death unless you've got reliable, verifiable sources to go with it. Rklawton ( talk) 04:29, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
If anyone finds a source that it was ACE that got him, put it in here please, also respect OPSEC, Loose lips sink ship... If you know what it mean —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.214.102.49 ( talk) 10:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC) i think some members of the assault team was delta but since no one can confirm it (because its classified) lawton wont let me put it up
Delta was present during the siege and had their own chopper stationed somewhere in country along with more SEALS in case things went south, or we started a war, or they had to fight their way out of the country, they would be the rescue team. I say this with 95% Certainty they were 'probably' on the UBL Raid
An editor has attempted to rename this article by copy and pasting the content of both the article and the talk page into a new article. There are two problems with this:
Instead, if it becomes necessary to rename this article, we simply perform a page-move. This will maintain the entire edit history while allowing the article's name to change. But, of course, before we do that, we should attempt to gain consensus. Rklawton ( talk) 23:47, 12 May 2011 (UTC) In my opinion this article really has NO name, since CAG,ACE, SFOD's name is ever changing, would be good to move it, but they have already changed the name, the current name is classified.
The Delta Force Wikipedia page should not have any popular culture information, there is a separate page for this 'Delta Force in popular culture'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.176.192.65 ( talk) 06:43, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
(1) How does the rank structure work and is there any information about what ranks each role has in the unit. It is said that experienced NCOs in the E4 to E8 range are recruited from the Army. Do they keep their rank or are they assigned new ranks within the Delta? (2) Appearing in civilian clothes or in camouflage uniforms without insignia disqualifies them as POWs in case they are captured, thus falling within local civil criminal or terrorists laws. Can anyone clarify? -- Malin Lindquist ( talk) 11:17, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
I bet the Units view on being taken alive is similar to STS Former Seal Team Six Operators have stated (Discovery Channel show about the UBL RAID) they will not be taken alive, they will fight to the end and they refuse to be a POW just to have their heads taken off by Extremists, I'm sure things would change if they were going to Iran or Pakistan and got captured, they would probably allow themselves to be taken alive IF they were forced to do so and that was their only option.
Well done, Rklawton! Let's dial this page back a notch to what we can verify. Paul, in Saudi ( talk) 14:36, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
So I'm going for a "third times the charm" :D I've added the Afghanistan and Iraq missions to the article again. PLEASE NOTE THAT I'VE ALSO WRITTEN DOWN REFERENCES THIS TIME AROUND. If it's still not good enough, I'll take it down myself. -- Jakeno911 ( talk) 11:55, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
Capture of Saddam Hussein (Operation Red Dawn), Battle of Tora Bora and Operation Anaconda have their own articles, but the others don't. I don't see the harm of having them on here anyway, I mean DEVGRU article has mission summaries also. -- Jakeno911 ( talk) 13:18, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
If Delta is involved in a mission, we should include a brief paragraph about the extent of their involvement. If no article is available to link to, then this paragraph must be reliably sourced. When the list gets too long, then we move it over to a "List of..." article. And the encyclopedia grows. If we have no reliable sources for something, then it doesn't belong here. Rklawton ( talk) 13:52, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
Jake - do you realize you've just used a book advertisement for a source? Rklawton ( talk) 15:05, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
Yeah sorry about the whole story telling thing. :) I'll take 'em down then. -- Jakeno911 ( talk) 18:06, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
Delta Force is a nickname not an official name, and should be listed as such on the article page. The term Delta Force refers to a Chuck Norris movie by that title. This name is frowned upon in the actual community and if used at all should be listed under nicknames. All instances of Delta Force should be changed to Delta. -- SFjarhead 13:28, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
-- Good argument Necrothesp. Using that logic let's label the article on the French "Garlic-Smelling Surrender-Monkeys", change the title of Judaism to "'dem conspirin' jewz", George Bush's wiki to "Dubbya" or perhaps just "dumbass" and the articles on God to the "man upstairs" or Allah. You know, the general populace of the world and all. Friggin' computer-geek civilians. --EdTadk—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 170.110.245.176 ( talk • contribs) 03:47, 11 November 2005.
I agree, it is the common nickname for this unit. The article should remain the same; Delta Force title should be under the heading of nicknames.-- SFjarhead 01:55, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
How about the official title of the page be 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment - Delta and have Delta Force as a disambiguation page for links to this page, the game, and the movie? -- BenWoodruff 21:11, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Also, one of the linked PDFs states that DELTA recruits from all branches of service, yet the body of the article states that DELTA recruits only from the Army.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 169.253.4.21 ( talk • contribs) 08:18, 22 September 2005.
No Marine, Force Recon or otherwise, would even dream of going through selection for Delta. They draw 99% from the Army. Any transfers are likely to be Air Force Combat Controllers, which, from what I've seen, are better soldiers than anything the Army has to offer anyway. Just what I hear. Take it or leave it. Ooh Rah! - Dave—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.225.14.46 ( talk • contribs) 13:21, 28 October 2005.
The make-up is 100% Army, no Air Force Combat Controllers from what I know from my time at Bragg. To say the AF Combat Controllers are "better soldiers than the Army" is pretty funny. I've yet to see a Combat Controller with anywhere near the leadership experience of an 82d squad leader or the tactical expertise for that matter. I seriously doubt they're capable of leading the tactical movement of a platoon size element and the few I knew certainly weren't friggin' disciplined enough to put up with some of the stuff an average 11B has to deal with. Virgil61 01:36, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
I dont understand, if Delta is 100% Army, as stated above...why bother with the June, 2002 recruitment trip to Okinawa(USMC)?—The preceding
unsigned comment was added by
24.130.100.17 (
talk •
contribs) 08:53, 13 March 2006.
The June 2002 Recruitment trip is because there are Army Units (including One Battalion of the 1st Special Forces Group) on Okinawa at Torii Station. (This is -or was- all easily accessible Public knowledge). SFOD-Delta draws 100% from the Army, but their selection is open to every male soldier SPC and above (Branch Qualified Officers in the grade of O-3 or O-4), regardless of SF, Ranger or Airborne affiliation -- provided that they've completed most of their first enlistment (They will be sent to Airborne school prior to operator training if they pass the assessment phase -- Just like Special Forces). That means that SPC Joe the Cook can try out for it and --provided he's in the physical and mental shape and has the character to pass Selection and Assessment-- can become an operator. Additionally, Marines, Sailors and Airmen can service-transfer to the Army (that is, reenlist into, Ala Blue to Green) and then try out for Delta, but they have to transfer to the Army first and may not transfer back if they fail selection (At least until the end of their enlistment. The same is true of those in the Army who transfer into the Navy to become SEALs) -- Just like SAS, this open-selection was the intent of the unit in the first place in order to draw on the potential of all soldiers, not just those in Special Ops. That is, according both to Charlie Beckwith's book "Delta Force" and to the annual Perscom/HRC SFOD-D briefing announcements. SFOD-D briefings are held at least once a year on every major base in every major US ARMY command in the world. SFOD-D Briefing announcements with all of this information used to be available on the Perscom website prior to 2001. They have since been removed. -- A guy who actually pays attention.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.162.53.104 ( talk • contribs) 12:46, 24 April 2006.
delta force should remain the way it is.in every special forces guide or encyclopedia etc they are refered to as delta force not just delta.plus it is more recognizable as delta force also personally it sounds better.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.248.202.119 ( talk • contribs) 09:50, 10 August 2005.
Delta Force is such a clicheed, overused term. It is, indeed, cringed at by actual operators. Within the Army Delta Force is known as Delta, D-Boys, or just D. Members of the unit are referred to as 'Operators'. Rumor within military circles has it that the unit has been renamed to Combat Applications Group or CAG. Delta Force is just being thrown around too much, it seems. By comparison, look at the former Seal Team Six, which, due to the brazen blabbermouth Richard Marcinko, had to redesignate itself 'Naval Special Warfare Development Group', or DEVGRU. As secrecy in both the SEALS and Delta intensifies as the war on terror continues, there may come a time when special operators in either unit carry no designation whatsoever. Most direct ops are conducted as part of a Task Force anyway, e.g. Task Force 11 or 22 in Afghanistan, which is an amalgam of operators from all branches of the military. The point is, if the public overuses unit designations they are likely to be changed. Anon—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.225.14.46 ( talk • contribs) 13:29, 28 October 2005.
No, administratively they will always have some unit identifier, even if working under another unit commanding a taskforce. It's just the way the military is. Combat Applications Group does indeed refer to Delta, but is a very loose umbrella term. Gibson Cowboy 16:50, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
That's a good point about overuse. "Delta Force" is an amateurish handle used by civilians. I never heard it refered except as "Delta" while at USASOC. It really should reflect the actual name rather than silly-sounding popular convention. Virgil61 01:40, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
Okay, requiring the average person to type in Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta every time is rediculous. I understand the annoyance the special forces community has at the term "delta force," but that is the common name the public has for it. And unfortunately, most civilians don't have to deal with typical military designations so it's better to keep this simple. Gibson Cowboy 16:35, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
Revelations 04:32, 3 January 2006 (UTC) "Deltoids" is a term that I have DF members use when they are referring to others of their rank.
If Charlie Beckwith referred to it as Delta Force (
Delta Force at Amazon.com), then I think that Civvies and Wikipedia can get away with it, too.—The preceding
unsigned comment was added by
69.162.53.104 (
talk •
contribs) 12:50, 24 April 2006.
What about Delta's association with the British S.A.S rumor has it that they train together, looking at the qualifitcation list on the main page it seems like a lot of things are the same. The 40 mile hump the psychological testing all that good stuff....seeing that Delta is so secretive it seems that they are a lot like the S.A.S being so tied down yet given so many personnal freedoms.
There is a Delta Force series of movies. Two of the movies The Delta Force and Delta Force 2 already have Wiki pages. There is also a Delta Force video game which has a wiki. Why don't we make a Delta Force disambiguation page? We can give a link to the above and include Delta (US Special Operations Force) as one of the options. This would allow Wiki to have the correct name and allow for the uneducated masses to find the appropriate article. -- BenWoodruff 16:07, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
I tried to substantiate the recent diff with a cursory google search, and subsequently found nothing but a bunch of garbage by counterintelligence fanboys. I realize these things are hard to substantiate, but surely somebody can find something? Avriette 17:19, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
The only thing from that diff I've found that is accurate is the mention that delta recruits from any component (active, guard, reserve) etc. I'm inclined to believe that article is wrong because Delta's training program consists of extreme amounts of practice in MOUT tactics and weapons training (evidenced by Col. Beckwith's book about the creation of delta), and that their training program is very similar to both SFQC/SFAS, and SAS selection. I've never heard anything about any DAO group, but then again if it really existed that wouldn't surprise me. Swatjester 21:07, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
Diccussion transferred from Navy Seals because Delta Force is meant. ( MARK S. 14:42, 16 March 2006 (UTC))
Yes, Women cannot become Navy SEALs. The only SOF women can become, is Delta Force. This is only a rumour though! It's said there is a platoon within Delta Force called "Funny Platoon" made up of female personnel. Again, this may just be a rumour.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Steven89 ( talk • contribs) 23:11, 22 January 2006.
Deltas are -NOT- members of 1st SFGroup, but of the "Combat Applicatins Group", formerly known as "1st SFODetachment (Airborne) Delta", which was a separate unit with an ASF-Unit-Name for secrecy reasons. By the way, there are diffrent special forces web-sides where the existence of the "FUNNY PLATOON" IS CONSIDERD AS A MATTER OF FACT(!) ( MARK S. 19:26, 6 March 2006 (UTC))
You're a complete idiot if you think women don't hold combat arms positions in the US Army. Having lived for 3 years on an Army base as the spouse of a soldier I can tell you with 100% certainty that women do indeed hold combat arms positions. You've obviously never been to an army base or been to Iraq. If you were in Iraq you would see women manning machine guns on the gun line, going on raids, defending convoys, ect.....Irreguardless of what you think the MOS says women are 100% certainly serving in direct fire combat arms positions in Iraq and Afganistan as we speak. I would point out that a huge number of soldiers operate outside their MOS - daily. It's certainly sad to see an 74A or a 54B cleaning floors and cutting lawns on a daily basis
It would seem rather stupid to not have female members of Delta. Delta isn't just about guns and muscle it's about being able to slip in and out of places without being noticed. I hate to break it to you but women would often be less noticed than big muscled men.
QB —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.105.150.19 ( talk • contribs)
Verifiing actual matters officially classified can obviously not be substantiated by hard(official) sources (as everybody knows). Therefore all the sources I found are inofficial:
Possibly these sources do not meet scientific demands but they are an indication for the "Funny Platoon's existence. ( MARK S. 14:21, 16 March 2006 (UTC))
It's been on every major news channel in the US over the past 5 years that all branches of special forces in the US - Delta, Rangers, Seals, ect.. are now actively recruiting outside of the military. They are looking for the best possible people and it seems that they've finally figured out that the military isn't necessarily the best place to find them. They aren't just looking for people to pull triggers anymore. Why exactly wouldn't a women with a much higher IQ than the average enlisted soldier or trained savant fighter be just as good of choice as a guy who got a GED and spent 4 years as a medical clerk, mechanic or cook? Most nations outside the "Western" world use women as covert special ops. Women can be just as brutal and intelligent as any man. If they are good enough for the CIA and the NSA to use in similar positions why not Delta or Rangers?
As the wife of a soldier I have the greatest respect for our men and women in uniform. However, I can honestly say that not all of the soldiers in our military are not what anyone would consider top of the line or professional soldiers. When you're trying to select the "best of the best" from a pool that consists of less than 1% of the population you have to be realistic and know that your best isn't really anywhere near what the "best" could or should be. I can't count on my fingers how many soldiers I've seen who couldn't even grasp the English language well enough to take basic orders from there command or soldiers who didn't know how to preform basic math. Does it really take a genius to figure out why they finally started looking for outside placements or why women in a "Funny Platoon" would be preforming intelligence gathering?
A CAG Squadron consists of Approximately 50 operators. It is broken into three 16 man Troops; 2 Assault Troops, and 1 Sniper Troop. An Assault Troop consists of a four man Head Quarters element, Troop Commander, Troop Sergeant Major, Troop Communications Chief, and Troop Medic, and then 12 Assaulters, which are typically organized into three 4 man teams, or two 6 man team (referred to as "Heavy"), plus any attachments that there might be (i.e. such as CCT). A Sniper Troop, also consists of 16 operators, the same 4 man HQ elements, and then the other 12 Snipers are divided into two 6 man sections, which are further divided into 2 man sniper teams. A sniper team consists of a Sniper and an Observer (who is usually the Team Leader). CAG recruits from ALL of the different service branches (including the Coast Guard) of the Military unlike DEVGRU, which recruits exclusively from within the ranks of the Navy SEALs. They are THREE Operational Squadrons (A,B, and C). In addition, CAG Operators also serve as part of Intelligence Support Activity (also known as "The Activity", "Task Force Orange", and the "Army of Northern Virginia"), which conducts SR operations in Sensitive, Denied or Restricted territories, they also do things like Target Acquisition and TTL, using things like Blackbird systems, "Airscan", and other covert SIGINT. There is also a Tier above this, it is referred to as "PM" (Paramilitary). These are the Operators, who are discharged from the military and then are hired by PMCs and then go to work for groups such as SAD/SOG.
QB —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.105.150.19 ( talk • contribs)
Your MOS does not change when you enter Delta Force, nor does Delta Force recruit strictly from the 18 series MOS. SFOD-D is considered a Special Mission Unit (SMU), not a Branch. According to Douglas Waller's extensively researched 1993 book " The Commandos" an idea that involved Female operators was experimented with briefly in the 1980s but dropped almost immediately as unworkable (but not until after some women had gone through a modified selection and assessment course). Waller provides his Sources in the appendix of the book, including JSOC staff and Delta Operators, so I'm inclined to take him at his word. However -- according to the same sources the "Funny Platoon" does currently exist. It is a Military Intelligence platoon attached to SFOD-D. Women can hold nearly any MI position (exceptions being the S2 in Infantry and Armor battalions -- though they can serve as S2 in Engineer and Aviation BNs as well as at the Brigade level), so I see no reason to dismiss the idea out of hand, especially since women can serve in SOCOM in CA and PsyOp capacities.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.162.53.104 ( talk • contribs) 13:20, 24 April 2006.
the previous comment is correct. females can hold any position in a support unit, such as special forces support or ranger support. the same would hold true for a support unit for delta. Parsecboy 21:41, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
I saw on the discovery channel(maybe discovery times channel?) SF women in the feild in Afghanistan to search the women there ect... is that considered a "support role"? They caried the same combat gear as the males. Sorry i can't provide a link. -Stowic
Stowic 01:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Just wanted to add my three cents. I am a former soldier (Afghan 1x, Iraq 1x)..I was NOT under the Special Operations command, but I DID train with several Special Forces ODAs as well as two different groups that were referred to as 'Delta' while I was in Iraq. The only reason I was able to do this is because I was a patrol/explosives detection dog handler. They 'Delta' guys also employed the use of a dog, and therefore we would combine training events with them. No question was ever asked directly, "Are you delta?"..."Are you CIA?"..or the like, simply because they didnt bring it up and I felt it better not to break the training relationship we had. After leaving Iraq I received emails from "1st SFOD-D" on a semi regular basis which provided basic information on applying to attend their selection course. 1st SFOD-D also holds regular briefings at all major Army installations. As I read in the emails: Pre-requisites included E-4/0-3 and above, GT and PT scores at a certain level. I was an MP, so that goes to show that ANY MOS may apply for selection. Those in SOCOM are perhaps better suited for the rigors of such a position, but any MALE soldier meeting those basic requirement may try out. Females do alot, as we see in the news consistently, they fill spy roles with the CIA and other government groups, but 1st SFOD-D is strictly a group of MALE soldiers that perform all sorts of covert/direct-action/special reconnaissance scary shit that I wouldnt want to do. But the fact remains they are MALE and they are SOLDIERS. -DavidM
A show on TV (history channel?) on capturing Pablo Escobar (cocaine kingpin in Columbia in the 1990s) said the Delta force was heavily involved in Columbia as part of that effort (as part of the US response to the President of Columbia's request for help). 4.250.138.184 18:03, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
This should be expanded ; Killing Pablo gives more details about Delta implication, and is more reliable about the role of Delta advisers for the Search bloc. Rob1bureau 13:10, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
I agree, on the History Channel Special "Killing Pablo" they go into good detail about the involvment of Delta Force ans Sentra (sp?) Spike. They had a huge role in the killing of pablo and it should be added to there missions.
69.129.67.253 15:47, 20 April 2007 (UTC) PS Im at work so I cant sign in but Im Gundam94.
I believe there is some speculation that Delta was involved in the raid that ended the Japanese embassy hostage crisis in Lima, Peru a few years back. Anyone have any vis on this? I also remember seeing a video that was shot right after the incident where the raid force all gathered in a courtyard and were supposed to be singing the Peruvian national anthem and there were obviously some very European looking individuals who had no idea what the words to the song were. They were just moving their lips to make it look like they were singing. Am I way off on this or is there anything official that may warrant mentioning it in the article?
I heard the rumor too, but nothing to substantiate it. ⇒ SWATJester eady Aim Fire! 06:26, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, found on GlobalSecurity.org : A small advance team was sent to Lima, Peru immediately following the takeover of the Japanese Ambassador's residence in January 1997 along with six members of the British SAS.. Delta can frequently operate "observators" and/or support teams, as it is said for Brigadier General James L. Dozier kidnapping.
In recruitment it says that Delta is only for Army green berets and Rangers who want to try out for it(or are asked I guess). However, links under Background show a recruitment ad for all military personel to come to a 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta orientation. It lists a bunch of requirements that someone must first have but it specifically states that Delta is open to people from other services.
Which one is right? Is delta open to all branches or not? It's a little unclear. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Docbrown777 ( talk • contribs)
69.162.53.104 is wrong on the airborne standards ( i realize, nitpicking). they are not 70-70-70, they are 60-60-60. i attended jump school in nov. 2004, and unless they've changed since then (which is highly unlikely) that's what they remain. Parsecboy 21:47, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Last time I was by Ft. Benning (earlier this year) the PT standard was 60 60 60 to pass the army standard: BUT US Army Airborne school required a 70-70-70 by the start of Tower Week. SFAS requires a 70-70-70 minimum, on top of the required standards for airborne school and army standard. ⇒ SWATJester Ready Aim Fire! 01:20, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
since when do you take a 2nd pt test at jump school? there isn't enough time for 2 pt tests. although, my roommate actually got back from jump school today, so i'll ask him when he's around. i'll let you know what he says... Parsecboy 00:43, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
Read again what I said: You don't take 2 PT tests: But if your first PT test you score 60-60-60, you have to improve by Tower Week. Like I said, things may have changed, but ask your friend, I'd like to know for certain. And regardless it doesn't matter: SFAS requires 70-70-70. ⇒ SWATJester Ready Aim Fire! 14:32, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
i realize what you said. but in the army, if you don't prove it on paper (i.e., on a pt test) nothing has occurred. and even if what you say is the standard, there aren't too many nco's in the army who care enough to actually verify progress without being forced to hold a 2nd pt test. Parsecboy 22:44, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
One of several operations in which Delta Force operators are thought to have played important roles was the invasion of Iraq in 2003. They allegedly entered Baghdad in advance, undercover with long hair and moustaches..
The last bit of that seems like it could be false. As it happens, I don't know that much about the subject, and am most probably wrong, hence why I didn't make a change. Just let me know if I did correctly, so that I can learn in future.-- Dreaded Walrus 03:13, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, it "could be false" hense the reason the line says "thought to have played". Anything about Delta is difficult to verify. However, there are many pictures in the book "Black Hawk Down" of Operators with shaggy hair and thick mustaches while in the Mog. Also, I know some of the SF guys first on the ground in Afghanistan after 9/11 and they all have heavy, native-style beards in their photos - Rezdave 12 May '07
My husband has pictures of his time in Iraq of going on raids with special forces and they were wearing dark tennis shoes and nothing even close to regulation uniforms longer dirty hair and beards.
Fiction, as defined by the Oxford American Dictionary: "Invention or fabrication as opposed to fact." Folks have been persistently editing this article with citations from The Unit, a show on CBS; 24, a show on FOX; and Deception Point, a novel by Dan Brown; among others — and these citations are, to say the least, inappropriate. Small wonder the mainstream doesn't take this project seriously, if you're going to publish an encyclopedia that asserts certain facts to be true based on their depiction in dramatic works. Cribcage 04:43, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
I've been doing my best to remove any such edits. It's a disrespect to Delta operators that such assertions and citations exist. Anyway, that's why we have a "Delta force in popular culture" section. ⇒ SWATJester Ready Aim Fire! 14:34, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
I've put together a list of Delta soldiers that have died in action since the beginning of the unit. Given the secrecy of the unit, a death is one of the few times the unit is even somewhat tacitly acknowledge by the Pentagon, which doesn't even list the unit in the press release announcing the soldier's death, choosing only to say the soldier was assigned to Headquarters, U.S. Army Special Operations Command. I think this would be a good addition to this page but wanted to run it past others before adding to the page. Thanks. Dsw 11:06, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Problem is, you generally can't verify which unit KIA's come from, and even if you could, you certainly couldn't verify that they were delta. If you can't verify it, you can't include it. ⇒ SWATJester Ready Aim Fire! 20:09, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
The article seems to be a bit confusing. This is typical when it is contributed and then edited. I think that reorganizing it would be beneficial.
First the "background" section jumps right into the failed 1980 mission then goes on some random tangents. I think starting over or deleting the section entirely. I think that "Delta force in modern conflicts" could be changed to "Delta in conflicts" and include all operations including the ones listed in the Second "Operations".
Maybe expanding some sections and adding some, like people credited with delta's formation. Also the term "Delta Force" is used a bit too much and though it is common in popular culture it is kind of annoying to some. Delta would be just fine. It is like people who say "PIN Number" which is redundant and annoying because the "N" Stand for number already. Anyways, "Delta" or "1st SFOD-D" would be better then delta force
Well there is a bunch of changes I think could stream line things and improve flow, just want to hear other's idea before anything is done. Mantion 21:38, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
Is/are there any legal citations for claims made in this portion of the article? The legal standing described in the "Immunity" section seems rather improbable for several reasons: PDD 25 ( http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/pdd25.htm) is a Clinton era document dealing with peacekeeping operations and while a sitting President can pardon someone for past crimes (think of Nixon and Ford) a President has no authority to exempt anyone from the laws of the United States. Even the president of the United States is not exempt from the law. Again, any valid citations suggesting that the President of the US can simply exempt someone (FBI, CIA, military, or the Boy Scouts) from the law? If not, perhaps the section should be removed.
It's true that they have presidential inmunitty? thanks...
It is what someone has written in the page some time ago, but it's probably false as said above your own message. I don't know the laws problems, but it seems that the President of the U.S. can't give imunity to anyone. Rob1bureau 18:08, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
This section, particularly the reference to MEMS (microbots), makes absolutely no sense at all. What is the point of microbot techonolgy in the overall context of Delta? How and why are they applied or used? Where is the citation documentation? This needs a serious rewrite or should be eliminated. Sduplessie 01:28, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
I think it is plainly obvious that many special operations forces use non-standard equipment. Perhaps a discussion about how this is done is in order. The issue of 1911 use brings the issue up for me here. I dont' doubt its use by members of Delta or other special units. It is merely not the only one. I have seen references to Delta using HK USP Tactical Pistols, Glock 19, and even the ubiquitous Beretta 92. Stating that the pistol of choice is a personally bought highly customized 1911 is disingenuous, and does not give an accurate portrayal of what is used and carried by these soldiers. The fact that they have discretion is not disputed, just the portrayal here is remarkably one sided. Smash05
The stipend for the personal 1911, however, is unusual even amongst the discretion given to both "vanilla" SF group, and other elements of SOCOM. Fact is, Delta has free reign to use basically whatever the hell they want, but as we have a clear, very good source for the 1911, we need to keep it in there. ⇒ SWATJester Denny Crane. 00:49, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Someone added a bit about the HK416 that was uncited and seems to violate NPOV. Also as noted in a conversation above - I think a well regarded weapons magazine may not be a good enough source on the 1911 issue. I hate to be picky but it irks me for reasons I will get into if someone wants me to. Anyway I would like to see a citation for information on the HK416 - and perhaps alot of this information belongs in an equipment section. Smash05 19:52, 14 March 2007 (UTC)Smash05
I cleaned up the 416 section: the weapons platform is not new, it's a marketing trick by HK to repackage the AR system. It's had lots of issues itself in testing, and gas piston AR15's have been around for some time before the 416, just none with HK's slick marketing and branding system. Also, the article as written makes the M4 sound like direct impingement systems are horribly unreliable, which is patently untrue. I've neutralized the tone. ⇒ SWATJester Denny Crane. 00:51, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
I reinstated the Larry Vickers page and am rewriting it. ⇒ SWATJester Denny Crane. 00:56, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Thing is though, criticism of the direct impingement system is listed on the M16 (rifle) and M4 carbine pages, as well as on another page, can't remember the exact title but it's like Comparison between the AK47 and the M16. It's only tangentially related to Delta, so it doesn't belong in this article; that said, nothing stopping it from inclusion elsewhere. ⇒ SWATJester Denny Crane. 15:58, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
I added more to the HK416 and HK417 along with sources, and made a seperate section for weaponary because it seems to be such a hot topic. I also expanded Larry Vicker's section, and plan to help create a page for him once I find more sources (other then his personal webpage). I also plan to create a page for issues with the M4/M16 to it's possible in the future that less of those issues have to be highlighted in these passages. The Army Times ( http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/02/atCarbine070219/) spacifically states that only Delta Force and other special forces units are going to see the new HK carbines so I feel that it is fitting to mention them. -- There is no replacement for displacement. 13:29, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
I changed instances of the M14 to the M21 because this is the military term for the rifle. Although the original author mentioned the M14 because that is how it is referred to in Black Hawk Down by Mark Bowden, the author of that book only used the term M14 because he felt his readers would not be familiar with the more obscure term "M21". -- There is no replacement for displacement. 14:23, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
As far as I've understood, Shughart's weapon was an accurized, modified M14, but was not an M21, or later M25. However, the M21 is highly in use within Delta, more currently as the M25 variant, and I've edited the article to reflect it as such. ⇒ SWATJester Denny Crane. 00:48, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Its nothing that says this in the article, but does Delta recruit foreign soldiers? I think I have heard that Delta asks soldiers from foreign special forces, like the British SAS and the German KSK (and other special force units they cooperate with), if they'd like to join Delta (if they have impressed Delta in some kind of way). Of course after they'd been put through the same tests as normal recruits. On link under this text it says: "Delta conducts worldwide recruitment twice a year prior to its fall and spring assessment-and-selection courses."
Link: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/sfod-d.htm
Anyone who can answer my question?
i dont understand why you deleted my entry.according to the government devgru and delta dont exist. the gov didnt say devgru participated in raid but is only speculated by the media. cia sad operatives dont "exist" either, however, it is speculated that they do exist and participated in the raid. whos to say that delta ( a unit that government doesnt acknowledge) didnt participate in the raid?
Read the two links I posted on your talk page. If you still have questions, come back here and ask them. Rklawton (talk) 02:40, 17 May 2011 (UTC) delta in neptune spear is not a personal speculation. devgru in neptune spear is also a speculation because its a still a classied mission. the government only says its a navy seal team and the media speculates that its devgru. however, both delta and devgru cross train. if you want to be technical about it. one of the commentators on the discovery channel's "killing bin laden" suggested that delta was involved. is that enough for me to post? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.170.153.141 ( talk) 04:10, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
Use official sources EG: CNN, White House, NBC etc.. Otherwise it will be deleted, although they may have participated in the raid there is lack of evidence to support the theory. As I hear ACE was on another mission, while the other Tier 1 unit took out OBL. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
58.170.230.156 (
talk) 11:48, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
Hello gents, I posted randomely throughout the talk page different things that needed to be changed and some small tidbits of intel that some of you guys got wrong. But I figured nobody would see them in the large amounts of garbage I have come accross on here.
I served 4 years with the 3rd Ranger Bn, deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. I served and lived with operators overseas both times to Iraq and I think my information is a little more valuable then the random websites you find on.
Some of the things that seem to trouble you people:
Patch/Uniform- -Delta wears the insignia of USASOC (red flash, USASOC Distinguished Unit Insignia, USASOC shoulder patch). -For their berets, they retain their previous unit berets (my knowledge of this is only limited to the former SOF guys).. if you were Ranger Regiment you retain your tan beret, if you were SF you retain your Green Beret. IDK what goes on with the former black beret wearing guys.
Weapons- During the no shit direct action raids; assaulters use HK416, sidearms almost all operators use either the special made 1911 made by Larry Vickers, or Glocks.
All weapons and equipment are mission dependent, remember that.
Equipment- Pro-Tec helmet? I dont know when this took place, but not during the GWOT. Operators use the MICH variant "Shorty", and its still kevlar... Plastic does not help against the dangers of Iraq or Afghanistan. Night vision goggles are a specially made variant of the helicopter pilot utilized AVS-6s. The unofficial nickname for these are the ANVS9s. They are dual tubed but they differ greatly from the PVS-15s that Regiment uses and require a huge battery pack in the back of the helmet.
Casualties- All the casualties listed below are part of Delta, but Zaun is the only one who is not an operator.
Training Video- Yes its Delta, no it is not meant for public release or military release. It is showed during the first day of Selection in order to motivate the students.
Don't change the information in the article, I don't care. This is more of me targeting you guys to be more informed.
Please excuse me for I have limited access to outside sites @ my job. A few weeks ago, I had posted an article on here regarding a video that was posted on YouTube. Now, we all can understand and respect that YouTube isn't always a factual place. However, last week, the Pentagon had issued a statement on "Around The Services" on the Military Channel regarding a video of the CAG that was posted.
Now, I had gone in depth regarding this particular subject, as it would be the first real recording of Delta Operators every released and it has been removed without justification or cause. If it has been removed for security purposes or what not, understood. Im a former soldier and wouldnt want my ugly mug posted all over the internet. I just would like an explanation as to what has caused this particular informational piece (which was decidely neutral in its portrayal) was removed.
Also, the methods and equipment are military doctrine for hostage rescue plus the locale and use of weapons in the what appears to be Iraqi AO's would mitigate against that. I know this is a place of discussion. What do you think? I have the vid at home and its pretty impressive and I think its the real deal, IMHO. I mean this is the first real video glimpse into the unit itself and its shock and awe tactics. Mcase07 21:13, 22 August 2007 (UTC)Mcase07
At this point and with correspondence to the Special Operations Command in Florida, I will not be posting the link to this video. Furthermore, I have requested it be deleted from YouTube yet again. The precedence for this is located in USC somewhere which I would rather not get into but I have been asked to keep the video under wraps and to not provide further information for personnel and operational security purposes. Our enemy uses the same resources as we do afterall. Let us not make it too easy on them. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mcase07 ( talk • contribs) 20:27, August 23, 2007 (UTC).
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ho2bWl3Y2RA check it out —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.57.187.41 ( talk) 06:56, August 25, 2007 (UTC)
Is this the video to which you are referring? It must not be that big a deal, if Military.com is posting it. It does seem legit though. Parsecboy 18:07, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
the SoCom Combat Assault Rifle/Mk16 and Mk17 to commandos in April. In a bland release from the company's PA shop, FN says fielding will continue through the winter of 2009. A source close to the program tells me so far the Rangers have gotten their new rifles, with Navy Special Warfare Combatant-Craft Crewmen and SEAL teams 1, 2 and 3... from Defense Tech - May 13, 2009
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/004844.html
Delta force changed its standard weapon from the M4A1CQB to the HK-416 since 2004 . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.132.48.229 ( talk • contribs) Sources:i found the article in Armytimes magazine and here is the link :www.armytimes.com/news/2007/02/atCarbine070219/ .
i dont know why its not working but you can read the article on yahoo ..just write HK-416 new delta weapon on yahoo search and it will be the first search result ( better than the M4 but the army cant have it )
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.132.48.229 ( talk) 10:32, August 23, 2007 (UTC)
An article by Vickers about the HK416 : http://www.hkpro.com/hk416.htm. He says that "All the key Units in JSOC chose the HK416 in preference to the current M4 and the FN SCAR Light which is still in development for the rest of SOCOM." Rob1bureau 20:04, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't know that it has an official name, but it appears that Delta did security for the Seattle WTO meeting, as seen here: Delta's down with it Tmaull 04:07, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Since the Army not commit on delta activity , so casualties in both Afghanistan and Iraq are not released but listed as : HQ US Army special operation command .-- Jonybond 08:34, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
So give your list (and your sources if possible please) ! Rob1bureau 20:04, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
List of Delta casualties in Iraq :
1-Master Sgt. George A. Fernandez / April 2, 2003 / small arms fire / North of Iraq.
2-Sgt. 1st Class Mickey E. Zaun / Jan. 28 , 2005 / Non Hostile / Mosul, Iraq.
3-Sgt. 1st Class Steven M. Langmack / May 31 , 2005 / small arms fire / Al Qaim, Iraq.
4-Master Sgt. Robert M. Horrigan / June 17 , 2005 / Hostile fire / Al Qaim, Iraq.
5-Master Sgt. Michael L. McNulty / June 17 , 2005 / Hostile fire / Al Qaim, Iraq.
6-Sgt. 1st Class Trevor J. Diesing / August 25, 2005 / IED attack / Husaybah, Iraq.
7-Master Sgt. Ivica Jerak / August 25, 2005 / IED attack / Husaybah, Iraq.
8-Sgt. 1st Class Obediah J. Kolath / August 25, 2005 ( died on August 28 in Germany ) / IED attack / Husaybah, Iraq.
Note / A Ranger died along the above three in the same attack
9-Master Sgt. Joseph J. Andres, Jr. / Dec. 24, 2005 / Hostile fire / Baqubah, Iraq ( Died in Balad ).
10-Sgt. 1st Class Lance S. Cornett / Feb. 3, 2006 / Hostile fire / Ar Ramadi, Iraq
11-Sgt. 1st Class Richard J. Herrema / April 25, 2006 / Hostile fire / Baghdad, Iraq .
12- Master Sgt. Benjamin Stevenson / July 21, 2011 / Hostile fire / Paktika province, Afghanistan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.100.154.236 ( talk) 14:05, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
--
82.116.149.190 21:48, 23 October ,2007 (UTC)
Thank you, but please specify your source(s) (where you found it) and what unit the were officialy assigned. Rob1bureau 11:46, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Here is your source : http://www.icasualties.org/oif/Service.aspx They are all mentioned to be assigned to US ARMY Special operation headquarters.
Also here is a casuality in Afghanistan :
Sgt. 1st Class Speer, Christopher J. / Aug. 7 ,2002 / Hostile - hostile fire / Ab Khail Afghanistan
Zaun was not an operator. He was part of their Support element. The rest are operators. I knew Trevor and Ivica, very tragic. By the way, many operators claim William "Chief" Carlson as a Delta casualty. He retired and joined the CIA shortly after where he along with a former DEVGRU operator died in Afghanistan.
D. - Former 3/75th —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.207.120.233 ( talk) 04:27, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
People the army switched to M9 Beretta and that includes Delta ..I know a guy in Green beret who said all army units now are using M9 .-- Max Mayr 21:09, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Well the Green Beret Guy is operator with the 3rd Battalion of the 3rd special force group Fort Bragg N.C. that all what i can say .-- Max Mayr 10:16, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
OK. I will contact him and see if he can help me with this -- Max Mayr 11:19, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes any and all verifiable information regarding the Combat Applications Group is welcome. Of course, be advised, some things are ALWAYS open to debate. Mcase07 ( talk) 02:46, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Delta and JSOC in general do not use just the standard US weapons. They use some of everything. JSOC and a mixture of special forces users were behind the Heckler & Koch MK23 Mod 0. I've seen pictures and had reports from Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere of late of Delta operators still using M1911s, a Glock or two, a Mk23, and a couple of revolvers. Also some Berettas, Sig M10, a Glock 18 machinepistol, and at least one guy with a Mini-Uzi in the thigh strap holster. Georgewilliamherbert 01:32, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
They use HK23 Mod 0 in order to put a silencer , you cant put a silencer to berreta -- Blain Toddi 22:55, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
The above comment is why I have no faith in the accuracy of articles on wiki...it is simply wrong. You can put a suppressor on any rifle or pistol with the right barrel and the proper suppressor for that weapon. If people who knew what they were talking about were the only ones writing things here there would be a LOT less space taken up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.121.98.15 ( talk) 12:17, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Fundamentally, any weapon can be modified in order to introduce it to a suppressed fire environment. Delta and JSOC have specially trained operators that are some of the VERY best gunsmiths in the world for this matter. To return to the foundation of the 1911 argument, as stated in the article, Delta Operators have been issued a stipend in which they can purchase an m1911a1 of their own preference, be it Kahr Arms, Para-Ordnance et al. They may retrofit and have their arms customized in order to have a LAM or Light Module, in the configuration they please. Great Delta Operator Larry Vickers was one of the very best gunsmiths before, during and after his Delta term, hence his design with the help of HK of the 416. I agree that there should be no nominal discussion regarding the weapons use, modification et al, as there is too much room for discussion from those who found out from a friend of a friend. What I have provided is a nominal explanation that any sidearm, regardless of stock or modified can be suppressed whether or not effectively is for debate. Mcase07 ( talk) 02:46, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Pistols that are and have been in Delta's inventory include Colt 1911A1 .45's as well as those manufactured versions by other sources as mentioned above and these are used with a suppressor when required. The Beretta has never as far as ive heard or read been used by Delta, all sources have stated this is because the Operators consider it to lack the "stopping power" that comes with the .45 round which has become an unwritten rule in Delta. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Mercenary 73 ( talk • contribs) 22:19, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
I have changed the title from "Famous Delta Force Operators" to "Notable Delta Operators". Reason for this, is that you would think these particular people were movie stars (though Eric Haney could be debatable due to his work with "The Unit"). It is rather distinguished that the operators are rather more Notable due to contributions, operations, citations or private sector work or entertainment. Therefore, they are not "famous" in the vein of a Tom Cruise or Eric Bana. Mcase07 22:17, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't think its a good idea to post actual information about Delta Force and other secret organizations because the Government might not want the information to be seen. General Mannino ( talk) 21:53, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
I am somewhat worried by the comments here (not just this section) saying that the info is classified so it should be removed or that one of the editors has been in contact with some division of the army which has told them to remove it. Wikipedia does not belong to one country, nor does it operate under any particular government. This means that any NPOV, referenced, relevant material should be added to the article, whether it's classified or not. If the US governemnt then decides to filter the information in the same way that China has censored most of wikipedia (at least when i was there a few years ago) then it can. However, editors should not take it upon themselves to censor information from the whole world. Despite this, everything must be referenced from reliable sources, rather than fan sites etc. 78.105.191.12 ( talk) 18:42, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
Is the sidenote about Ranger hair styles necessary? 141.161.119.79 ( talk) 16:52, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
It was stated in Black Hawk Down that Delta operators wore Pro-tec helmets instead of standard issue kevlar helmets due to CAG's special role in hostage rescue (they were more concerned with bumping and scraping their heads because of their fast operation is what i recall the book was saying). Should that be listed in the article and also is it possible that by now Delta may have custom helmets made for them, since "What Delta wants, Delta gets"? Tsurugi ( talk) 17:33, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
I also remembering hearing something about their helmets on the History Channel. Akadewboy ( talk) 10:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
I have never witnessed an operator wear a pro-tech helmet overseas. They wear Kevlar helmets, they are not stupid and reckless. A pro-tec is not going to save you from the hazards in Iraq and Afghanistan. Things change, but currently they use kevlar helmets, a model called the "shorty". A shorty is a modified MICH that you CAN purchase, it has extra room on the sides for a headset.
-D. Former 3/75th —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.207.120.233 ( talk) 03:57, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
I read in the book that they did use the plastic helmets rather than their kevlar for that mission (but it was not a common thing). The reason being it was suppost to be a fast mission and they didn't think there was much risk of being shot in the head. But when the mission went to hell atleast two operators were killed because they were hit in the helmet.-- 70.76.166.171 ( talk) 19:50, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
The book says Pro-tec for that mission, so it's Pro-tec until some other reliable source says it isn't. That's how we roll here on Wikipedia. Rklawton ( talk) 19:54, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
his talking about somalia no iraq/afghan, now they're probably using FAST or short cut MICH (2002) helmets 58.174.240.205 ( talk) 01:50, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
Someone added back what they claim is the beret flash for Delta. This is absurb. First, ALL beret flashes authorized by the Army Institute of Heraldry are the same shape. There are no triangles. Second, what kind of sense does a seperate flash make? If the Army tries to keep the unit under wraps or at least reasonably low key, why would they authorize not only a special flash, but one that was a completely different shape than any other flash, which would make these guys identifiable at 100 friggin yards? That patch isn't even a real one authorized by the Institute of Hearldry. It is a fake made up by a private company in the mid 1980's. Niteshift36 ( talk) 05:42, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Delta wears the red USASOC flash, accompanied by the USASOC Distinguished Unit Insignia. Delta operators do have Class A standards; they have to wear something at the ceremony of a fallen. This is what I know for a fact; Operators wear the beret of their previous unit; whether Ranger tan, or SF Green. I do not know what the non Ranger or SF experienced operators wear.
D. -Former 3/75 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.207.120.233 ( talk) 04:04, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Is beyond gay, it makes the article like some kind of friggin video game you can buy. And I haven't the slightest idea how anyone can talk with authority about this unit. -some 11 bang bang fag —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.173.147.79 ( talk) 07:44, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I agree. The list is pretty bogus and is another addition made up to pack out the article. Also, where the ref's for this as most of the wpn's added are either standard issue or down to someones assumption. Delta, more than any other SF unit, have a vast array of kit which is tailored to the op in hand ( Archangel1 ( talk) 00:44, 4 September 2008 (UTC)).
I've added an outcome section to the Operations list, since otherwise it's just a list of operations, giving no idea of what actually happened in them. -- MoltenBoron ( talk) 16:16, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
The language in this article needs to be changed to continue with the NPOV policy. ( Archangel1 ( talk) 14:12, 13 November 2008 (UTC)).
There are literally thousands of sources which detail SEAL involvement in the B of M. John Gay, a SEAL, was shot, his Randall knife deflecting the round. It is discussed here [6]. Dick Couch, in his book "Finishing School" details the account of Eric Olson, who rose to be commander of SEAL Team 6, and his involvement in the B of M. Bowden touches on this in Black Hawk Down as well. Simply put, read the book more closely. Search Google. Read other accounts of the battle, it's there...and quite obvious. SpartanSWAT10 ( talk) 14:12, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
First, is the Delta Force under the Joint Command, or US Army command? There is nothing about it in the United States Army Special Operations Command.
Second, what's the actual patch of the Delta Force? Why would they wear patch of the whole USASOC? Where is the source? (if it's not under the US Army, then it doesn't make any sense at all) -- Novis-M ( talk) 03:05, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Why don't we use this patch as the official insignia of Delta Force? It is really weird that on the website of the USACOM there is nothing about Delta Force. Only on the website of Joint Command, but that is different branch. I don't see how is the Delta Force part of the Army then. It is same with the globalsecurity.org article, nothing about Delta Force in the US Army Spec Ops Command article, only in the Joint Command again - because the Joint Com is separate and independent, along with USASOC, Navy spec command, and marine spec ops command. -- Novis-M ( talk) 04:19, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
Delta wears the USASOC patch, the red arrowhead that the 160th wears. You won't find a source, but I know because they have told me. Add if you want, or don't I dont care.. just stop with your ignorant assumptions. And you might be the only one who uses ARSOC; USASOC is most commonly used.
D. - Former 3/75th —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.207.120.233 ( talk) 04:16, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
This is my first time posting, and I am not completely aware of all posting standard, so please bare with me.
Flyinggr ( talk) 19:48, 16 May 2009 (UTC)Flyinggr
I removed the following section, which has been tagged as not being supported by any reliable sources since Nov 08. Please reinstate information only if supporting citations can be incorporated. — Eustress talk 01:22, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Operation | Country | Year | |
---|---|---|---|
Operation Eagle Claw | Iran | 1980 | |
Operation Urgent Fury | Grenada | 1983 | |
Operation Acid Gambit | Panama | 1989 | |
Operation Just Cause | Panama | 1989 | |
Operation Desert Shield | Iraq | 1990 | |
Operation Desert Storm | Iraq | 1991 | |
Operation Restore Hope | Somalia | 1993 | |
Operation Gothic Serpent | Somalia | 1993 | |
Operation Enduring Freedom | Afghanistan | 2001 | |
Operation Anaconda (subordinate operation to OEF) |
Afghanistan | 2002 | |
Operation Iraqi Freedom | Iraq | 2003 | |
Operation Vigilant Resolve | Iraq | 2004 |
Eagle Claw has been well documented. There is no reason to remove it from this section. In fact, I just reviewed the first four items, and all are documented in their respective articles. I'm thinking this tag was added in error. Alternatively, we just need to duplicate the citations used in the linked articles - which seems to be a waste of space. Readers wanting more information about Delta's involvement in these campaigns can simply click on the relevant article and check out its references. Rklawton ( talk) 01:35, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
I've restored the text and removed the tag. It's a list of linked articles. The references are in those articles. If the list contained items without links, then yes, those items would need references in this article, but that's not the case. Rklawton ( talk) 01:46, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
If there are parts of the article that are unverifible, we should pin-point them and remove them, especially on such a controversial topic. Also what exactly is "eliminating covert enemy forces (where in the U.S.?)" and isn't this opinion "It is composed of the best special operators and soldiers of the Army who are carefully selected in special processes." Also in the intro do we really need to talk about other CT units, wouldn't that be best for the history section or maybe create an overview section? Also is any of the unregistered editors check the discussion, are the edit summaries to much to ask for? But, what do I know I "am" not an admin :) Aaron mcd ( talk) 05:58, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
Is this article really a start class? If has, reliable (for the most part) sources, and is free of major grammatical errors. Maybe it deserves a C class? Aaron mcd ( talk) 03:10, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
There is no way that a book that describes the selection process at its inception in 1979 can be a reliable source on what the current selection process looks like today. In order to be accurate and not speculate, the text needs to reflect this. Presenting this information with the current sources is misleading. I don't really think there is a valid argument that a 29-year old account can be considered current. — Ocatecir T 07:33, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
The last sentence mentions needing an ASVAB score of at least 110. The only problem is that the ASVAB caps out at 99. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.19.85.85 ( talk) 08:52, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
You need a GT score of 110, not ASVAB score of 110. Just a simple mistake. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
97.100.43.133 (
talk) 19:31, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
I question the statement that the Aviation Branch may have at least some enlisted helicopter pilots. No branch of the US military has had enlisted pilots since WW2. Most Army helo pilots are warrant officers, and while many if not most WOs come from the enlisted ranks, they cannot be considered enlisted people.
It is possible that the author intended to state that Delta "grows its own" pilots from within its ranks, but that's just a conjecture on my part. In any case, this statement should be verified. Unless & until it is confirmed, it should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.130.56.152 ( talk) 01:53, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
Shouldn't the History section reflect more of Beckwith's 15 year (or so) struggle to convince Army brass to create the unit? He initially presented a full report to the Army immediately upon his return from the SAS in the early 60's, highlighting the Army's vulnerability in not having an SAS-type unit. He rewrote and re-presented that report several times and risked his career several times, trying to force the point, for many years. Finally, in the mid 70s, when terrorist threats became high profile, the Pentagon tapped him to go ahead with his idea. The article makes it sound too simple: "He briefed military and government figures, who were also impressed with the SAS concept." Like he presented the idea and they said the word go right away. Anyone agree? All of the above info is in Beckwith's memoir, by the way. Rljkerns ( talk) 18:15, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
The official designation is not the 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta anymore it is the 1st Combat Applications Group, according to the US Federal Government. I would provide a link but it also has were 'Delta' trains and their missions so I cannot. -- 124.180.150.164 ( talk) 10:26, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
One (or more) users are repeatedly adding the word "rumored" as to the existence of this unit. Given the number of sources spelling out its existence, I think "rumored" isn't appropriate and should not be used here. Thoughts? Rklawton ( talk) 02:14, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
Please do not add speculation about Delta's role in Osama's death unless you've got reliable, verifiable sources to go with it. Rklawton ( talk) 04:29, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
If anyone finds a source that it was ACE that got him, put it in here please, also respect OPSEC, Loose lips sink ship... If you know what it mean —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.214.102.49 ( talk) 10:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC) i think some members of the assault team was delta but since no one can confirm it (because its classified) lawton wont let me put it up
Delta was present during the siege and had their own chopper stationed somewhere in country along with more SEALS in case things went south, or we started a war, or they had to fight their way out of the country, they would be the rescue team. I say this with 95% Certainty they were 'probably' on the UBL Raid
An editor has attempted to rename this article by copy and pasting the content of both the article and the talk page into a new article. There are two problems with this:
Instead, if it becomes necessary to rename this article, we simply perform a page-move. This will maintain the entire edit history while allowing the article's name to change. But, of course, before we do that, we should attempt to gain consensus. Rklawton ( talk) 23:47, 12 May 2011 (UTC) In my opinion this article really has NO name, since CAG,ACE, SFOD's name is ever changing, would be good to move it, but they have already changed the name, the current name is classified.
The Delta Force Wikipedia page should not have any popular culture information, there is a separate page for this 'Delta Force in popular culture'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.176.192.65 ( talk) 06:43, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
(1) How does the rank structure work and is there any information about what ranks each role has in the unit. It is said that experienced NCOs in the E4 to E8 range are recruited from the Army. Do they keep their rank or are they assigned new ranks within the Delta? (2) Appearing in civilian clothes or in camouflage uniforms without insignia disqualifies them as POWs in case they are captured, thus falling within local civil criminal or terrorists laws. Can anyone clarify? -- Malin Lindquist ( talk) 11:17, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
I bet the Units view on being taken alive is similar to STS Former Seal Team Six Operators have stated (Discovery Channel show about the UBL RAID) they will not be taken alive, they will fight to the end and they refuse to be a POW just to have their heads taken off by Extremists, I'm sure things would change if they were going to Iran or Pakistan and got captured, they would probably allow themselves to be taken alive IF they were forced to do so and that was their only option.
Well done, Rklawton! Let's dial this page back a notch to what we can verify. Paul, in Saudi ( talk) 14:36, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
So I'm going for a "third times the charm" :D I've added the Afghanistan and Iraq missions to the article again. PLEASE NOTE THAT I'VE ALSO WRITTEN DOWN REFERENCES THIS TIME AROUND. If it's still not good enough, I'll take it down myself. -- Jakeno911 ( talk) 11:55, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
Capture of Saddam Hussein (Operation Red Dawn), Battle of Tora Bora and Operation Anaconda have their own articles, but the others don't. I don't see the harm of having them on here anyway, I mean DEVGRU article has mission summaries also. -- Jakeno911 ( talk) 13:18, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
If Delta is involved in a mission, we should include a brief paragraph about the extent of their involvement. If no article is available to link to, then this paragraph must be reliably sourced. When the list gets too long, then we move it over to a "List of..." article. And the encyclopedia grows. If we have no reliable sources for something, then it doesn't belong here. Rklawton ( talk) 13:52, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
Jake - do you realize you've just used a book advertisement for a source? Rklawton ( talk) 15:05, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
Yeah sorry about the whole story telling thing. :) I'll take 'em down then. -- Jakeno911 ( talk) 18:06, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
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