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I think a death listing for April 5 was deleted. If I'm not mistaken, the entry for "Bernard Gonzalez," a French doctor who committed suicide after being diagnosed with COVID-19, was removed. If this is so, why was his entry deleted? Am very curious.
2600:8800:784:8F00:C23F:D5FF:FEC4:D51D (
talk)
01:37, 6 April 2020 (UTC)reply
The editor who removed him seemed to feel that the doctor was only written about by the national press because a) he had been diagnosed with COVID-19 (just a topical subject), and b) the doctor committed suicide because of this (bordering on sensationalist reporting). Although I see he was employed by the notable
Stade de Reims football club, I tend to agree with the editor that he in himself is not baseline notable and so I will not personally be putting him back in. Others may think differently when reading this. Thanks.
Ref(chew)(do)02:17, 6 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Thank you for the explanation. But curious, was it justone editor who made the decision? If that's the case, shouldn't there have been some type of discussion and consensus instead of a 'blanket' removal based on one person's 'whim'? It's possible, as you say, that "others may think differently when reading this." And I'm thinking those others may be the French. And, if I understand Wikipedia's policy, if it had been one of the club's players, he'd be automatically listed just because he's an "athlete." Pardon me if I fail to see a distinction in club occupation as a reason of non-notability. Thanks
2600:8800:784:8F00:C23F:D5FF:FEC4:D51D (
talk)
03:43, 6 April 2020 (UTC)reply
In the case of someone removing an entry due to non-notability, another editor may sometimes revert that edit if they feel that notability does exist. On this occasion though, no-one has reverted and the removal has stood. If there had been a revert and the removing editor objected, then no doubt the discussion would have started here, as you would wish it to. Like it has with us. And, as I say, it may still be the case that the result of this discussion is the reinstatement of the entry. But, as I've already indicated, despite his position at the French professional football club, I don't see enough notability for that restoring editor to be me. The best course now is to see what, if any, reaction there is to this discussion. Thanks.
Ref(chew)(do)03:51, 6 April 2020 (UTC)reply
I agree that Gonzalez does not appear to meet any notability guideline. He is ineligible for
WP:NFOOTBALL, and fails
WP:GNG as sources for his death are limited to tabloid and parochial media. Of course, our IP editor could always write an article about Gonzalez and see if it survives deletion review.
WWGB (
talk)
04:57, 6 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Charlotte Figi
Charlotte Figi was an American girl who had a strain of medical marijuana named after her (
Charlotte's web). She suffered from seizures, but they stopped after parents had her use a form of marijuana that doesn't a high. The girl died from Covid-19 on April 7. Her brief bio is on the page cited. Does she warrant an inclusion?
B-Machine (
talk)
20:37, 8 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Article notes a "negative" on COVID, so if that was the driving force behind inclusion, forget it. If Dravet syndrome or CBD awareness is the idea, fair play for 30 days. If because she was young and tragic, meh.
InedibleHulk (
talk)
01:45, 9 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Perhaps you can stop editing every post I make because somehow you feel that you always know which credit is better. It's no secret. No one had heard of Gordy, and you yourself, always indicate "better" known credit. Wiki can be edited by all. There are no experts here. No one has a monopoly. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Shadow2700 (
talk •
contribs)
19:24, 20 April 2020 (UTC)reply
You’re being needlessly aggressive and acting in total bad faith. I don’t think I know better at all. Doesn’t matter if you haven’t heard of Gordy, it doesn’t make it suddenly not apart of Lesters filmography.
Rusted AutoParts19:29, 20 April 2020 (UTC)reply
What are you talking about, Shadow? Gordy is a notable film covered by 43 Wikipedia projects, as well as Lester being the second credited actor and having a mention in his own article's lead. Meanwhile, he appeared in 6/222 episodes of Petticoat Junction (which is covered by a WHOPPING 3 Wikipedia projects). Was it a childhood favourite, perhaps? —
Jonny Nixon (
talk)
19:33, 20 April 2020 (UTC)reply
With the lack of additional comment from Shadow it feels this is more or less just an instance of
WP:OWN. The core stance they took was to lash out at me for changing the credits.
Rusted AutoParts20:01, 20 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Not a personal attack, but you do change my credits every single time, and that is frustrating as we work together to produce the best possible work, so feel free to quit the sympathy and victim card. Despite my editing, I do not know the ins and outs, so I don't know how to sign this. Again, let's worth together rather than assuming one is always better than the other.
Shadow2700 (
talk •
contribs)
20:07, 20 April 2020 (UTC)reply
You throw a tizzy every time a credit is switched and make remarks towards me as if I’m just singling you out to do so. You also said in a newer summary that I’d come here to “make a threat”. Why is that about? Like Nixon said, Lester only did 6 PJs. He was a main in Gordy. That’s clearly the more notable credit.
Rusted AutoParts20:12, 20 April 2020 (UTC)reply
I do apologize - I meant come here and start a "thread" - I did not mean threat - that was a typographical error. I am honestly not trying to be difficult, but please know it's just my frustration as you do change a credit on every single actor/actress entry (not just mine - true, look back). It just comes across as arrogant as if you know better than I or someone else. I think, at time, the treatment here is inconsistent. I think credits should be well-known, but also if someone appeared in a television show in a notable role, why shouldn't that be included. I think we both overreacted but had the same intent - make Lester's entry the best it can be.
Shadow2700 (
talk •
contribs)
20:17, 20 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Me changing a credit isn't me trying to be arrogant and thinking I know better/pick and choose what goes in, it's to try and reflect what their most notable credits are. Everyone's going to always have a differing perspective, I get that, but I'm certainly not trying to assert anything when I change a credit.
Rusted AutoParts21:42, 20 April 2020 (UTC)reply
So here's my take on actor/actress listings: if they've had memorable performances on stage and in film and television, I try to add entries from all three venues, if possible. Having more or all of them from only one gives a sense of imbalance, possibly unfairly. In Lester's case, if GA and PJ were his only notabilities, they should be listed, if the appearances number more than a couple; however, he is known more for Gordy more than the PJ episodes (but he played the same character in both shows, as well as on The Beverly Hillbillies, totaling a dozen episodes). Wikipedia is all about collaboration, and this page is all about recognizing an entry's accomplishments and contributions to this world trying to stop the spiral to hell in a handbasket. Wyliepedia @
11:37, 21 April 2020 (UTC)reply
You don't need a consensus to make one credit edit! Do you know what I do? I choose my max 3 credits for a subject entry and add them if no-one else has - then I totally leave it alone. If someone else sees it differently, they can change mine, but I've had my say and it is never worth arguing over, to my mind.
Ref(chew)(do)05:26, 22 April 2020 (UTC)reply
The Times has published the Rt. Rev.’s
obituary and I understand from
Peerage News that it indicates he died from covid-19. Does anybody have access to confirm this? Would also be great to flesh out his page based on the info from the obit. Thank you --
Elinor.Dashwood (
talk)
23:17, 21 April 2020 (UTC)reply
I believe the articles which say Sunday know something that the others don't. It appears that the others, reporting on Wednesday, may have assumed that the death occurred the day before. It is more likely that the death occurred on the earlier date, and only some of the journals mentioned may have been told this. I would leave it as is until all those outlets change to a common date of death. (The source currently in use says Sunday, so I'd leave that in there.) Thanks.
Ref(chew)(do)12:59, 23 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Because you are pushing a tabloid source (Daily Star) when a better-quality source (The Guardian) is available.
WWGB (
talk)
13:21, 29 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Outrageous. Tabloid sources are valid (apart, of course, from the Daily Mail). Outright prejudicial censorship, if that is what's happening. Quality is in the eye of the beholder.
Ref(chew)(do)15:39, 29 April 2020 (UTC)reply
And if either of those publications happens to be the ONLY source available at a certain time, you keep out what will turn into a valid entry because of that? Great state of affairs if so, and it is undeniably censorship by consensus. Don't sound so puzzled - I'm purely making a point based on my opinion, not arguing for my ability to ignore the convention.
Ref(chew)(do)18:12, 29 April 2020 (UTC)reply
The idea that we should keep unreliable sources in an article because no better sources are available goes against, like, every part of
WP:V as a policy.
Praxidicae (
talk)
10:04, 30 April 2020 (UTC)reply
I've been reading different articles, and some of them say either brain cancer/cancer or brain tumor. Should it be changed, or leave it the way it is?
MikaelaArsenault (
talk)
01:19, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I am actually going to throw a flag here. We need to investigate this. Variety has stated he died from complications of lung cancer which makes sense. It is one of those weird connections where lung cancer spreads through the body and it hits the brain first. So this either should be a brain tumor as a complication of lung cancer, metastatic cancer or complications from lung cancer. Your pick...here is the link:
[9].
Sunnydoo (
talk)
21:42, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I was wondering when I saw this b/c the US media usually state which of the 2 brain common cancers (astrocytomas or glioblastomas) it was. Neither was cited but this makes sense now that it was lung cancer.
Sunnydoo (
talk)
21:46, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
NYT corroborates complications from lung cancer, and they phrase it as “Kevin Turner, a representative for Mr. Lloyd, confirmed his death on Saturday. He died of complications from lung cancer, his family said in a statement.” Case closed in my books.
Rusted AutoParts03:55, 3 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Mikaela, please read the FAQs at the top of this page. They will answer most of the questions that you post here.
WWGB (
talk)
00:41, 3 May 2020 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Death on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Years, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Years on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.YearsWikipedia:WikiProject YearsTemplate:WikiProject YearsYears articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Lists, an attempt to structure and organize all
list pages on Wikipedia. If you wish to help, please visit the
project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
discussion.ListsWikipedia:WikiProject ListsTemplate:WikiProject ListsList articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of
History on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Historyhistory articles
I think a death listing for April 5 was deleted. If I'm not mistaken, the entry for "Bernard Gonzalez," a French doctor who committed suicide after being diagnosed with COVID-19, was removed. If this is so, why was his entry deleted? Am very curious.
2600:8800:784:8F00:C23F:D5FF:FEC4:D51D (
talk)
01:37, 6 April 2020 (UTC)reply
The editor who removed him seemed to feel that the doctor was only written about by the national press because a) he had been diagnosed with COVID-19 (just a topical subject), and b) the doctor committed suicide because of this (bordering on sensationalist reporting). Although I see he was employed by the notable
Stade de Reims football club, I tend to agree with the editor that he in himself is not baseline notable and so I will not personally be putting him back in. Others may think differently when reading this. Thanks.
Ref(chew)(do)02:17, 6 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Thank you for the explanation. But curious, was it justone editor who made the decision? If that's the case, shouldn't there have been some type of discussion and consensus instead of a 'blanket' removal based on one person's 'whim'? It's possible, as you say, that "others may think differently when reading this." And I'm thinking those others may be the French. And, if I understand Wikipedia's policy, if it had been one of the club's players, he'd be automatically listed just because he's an "athlete." Pardon me if I fail to see a distinction in club occupation as a reason of non-notability. Thanks
2600:8800:784:8F00:C23F:D5FF:FEC4:D51D (
talk)
03:43, 6 April 2020 (UTC)reply
In the case of someone removing an entry due to non-notability, another editor may sometimes revert that edit if they feel that notability does exist. On this occasion though, no-one has reverted and the removal has stood. If there had been a revert and the removing editor objected, then no doubt the discussion would have started here, as you would wish it to. Like it has with us. And, as I say, it may still be the case that the result of this discussion is the reinstatement of the entry. But, as I've already indicated, despite his position at the French professional football club, I don't see enough notability for that restoring editor to be me. The best course now is to see what, if any, reaction there is to this discussion. Thanks.
Ref(chew)(do)03:51, 6 April 2020 (UTC)reply
I agree that Gonzalez does not appear to meet any notability guideline. He is ineligible for
WP:NFOOTBALL, and fails
WP:GNG as sources for his death are limited to tabloid and parochial media. Of course, our IP editor could always write an article about Gonzalez and see if it survives deletion review.
WWGB (
talk)
04:57, 6 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Charlotte Figi
Charlotte Figi was an American girl who had a strain of medical marijuana named after her (
Charlotte's web). She suffered from seizures, but they stopped after parents had her use a form of marijuana that doesn't a high. The girl died from Covid-19 on April 7. Her brief bio is on the page cited. Does she warrant an inclusion?
B-Machine (
talk)
20:37, 8 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Article notes a "negative" on COVID, so if that was the driving force behind inclusion, forget it. If Dravet syndrome or CBD awareness is the idea, fair play for 30 days. If because she was young and tragic, meh.
InedibleHulk (
talk)
01:45, 9 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Perhaps you can stop editing every post I make because somehow you feel that you always know which credit is better. It's no secret. No one had heard of Gordy, and you yourself, always indicate "better" known credit. Wiki can be edited by all. There are no experts here. No one has a monopoly. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Shadow2700 (
talk •
contribs)
19:24, 20 April 2020 (UTC)reply
You’re being needlessly aggressive and acting in total bad faith. I don’t think I know better at all. Doesn’t matter if you haven’t heard of Gordy, it doesn’t make it suddenly not apart of Lesters filmography.
Rusted AutoParts19:29, 20 April 2020 (UTC)reply
What are you talking about, Shadow? Gordy is a notable film covered by 43 Wikipedia projects, as well as Lester being the second credited actor and having a mention in his own article's lead. Meanwhile, he appeared in 6/222 episodes of Petticoat Junction (which is covered by a WHOPPING 3 Wikipedia projects). Was it a childhood favourite, perhaps? —
Jonny Nixon (
talk)
19:33, 20 April 2020 (UTC)reply
With the lack of additional comment from Shadow it feels this is more or less just an instance of
WP:OWN. The core stance they took was to lash out at me for changing the credits.
Rusted AutoParts20:01, 20 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Not a personal attack, but you do change my credits every single time, and that is frustrating as we work together to produce the best possible work, so feel free to quit the sympathy and victim card. Despite my editing, I do not know the ins and outs, so I don't know how to sign this. Again, let's worth together rather than assuming one is always better than the other.
Shadow2700 (
talk •
contribs)
20:07, 20 April 2020 (UTC)reply
You throw a tizzy every time a credit is switched and make remarks towards me as if I’m just singling you out to do so. You also said in a newer summary that I’d come here to “make a threat”. Why is that about? Like Nixon said, Lester only did 6 PJs. He was a main in Gordy. That’s clearly the more notable credit.
Rusted AutoParts20:12, 20 April 2020 (UTC)reply
I do apologize - I meant come here and start a "thread" - I did not mean threat - that was a typographical error. I am honestly not trying to be difficult, but please know it's just my frustration as you do change a credit on every single actor/actress entry (not just mine - true, look back). It just comes across as arrogant as if you know better than I or someone else. I think, at time, the treatment here is inconsistent. I think credits should be well-known, but also if someone appeared in a television show in a notable role, why shouldn't that be included. I think we both overreacted but had the same intent - make Lester's entry the best it can be.
Shadow2700 (
talk •
contribs)
20:17, 20 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Me changing a credit isn't me trying to be arrogant and thinking I know better/pick and choose what goes in, it's to try and reflect what their most notable credits are. Everyone's going to always have a differing perspective, I get that, but I'm certainly not trying to assert anything when I change a credit.
Rusted AutoParts21:42, 20 April 2020 (UTC)reply
So here's my take on actor/actress listings: if they've had memorable performances on stage and in film and television, I try to add entries from all three venues, if possible. Having more or all of them from only one gives a sense of imbalance, possibly unfairly. In Lester's case, if GA and PJ were his only notabilities, they should be listed, if the appearances number more than a couple; however, he is known more for Gordy more than the PJ episodes (but he played the same character in both shows, as well as on The Beverly Hillbillies, totaling a dozen episodes). Wikipedia is all about collaboration, and this page is all about recognizing an entry's accomplishments and contributions to this world trying to stop the spiral to hell in a handbasket. Wyliepedia @
11:37, 21 April 2020 (UTC)reply
You don't need a consensus to make one credit edit! Do you know what I do? I choose my max 3 credits for a subject entry and add them if no-one else has - then I totally leave it alone. If someone else sees it differently, they can change mine, but I've had my say and it is never worth arguing over, to my mind.
Ref(chew)(do)05:26, 22 April 2020 (UTC)reply
The Times has published the Rt. Rev.’s
obituary and I understand from
Peerage News that it indicates he died from covid-19. Does anybody have access to confirm this? Would also be great to flesh out his page based on the info from the obit. Thank you --
Elinor.Dashwood (
talk)
23:17, 21 April 2020 (UTC)reply
I believe the articles which say Sunday know something that the others don't. It appears that the others, reporting on Wednesday, may have assumed that the death occurred the day before. It is more likely that the death occurred on the earlier date, and only some of the journals mentioned may have been told this. I would leave it as is until all those outlets change to a common date of death. (The source currently in use says Sunday, so I'd leave that in there.) Thanks.
Ref(chew)(do)12:59, 23 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Because you are pushing a tabloid source (Daily Star) when a better-quality source (The Guardian) is available.
WWGB (
talk)
13:21, 29 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Outrageous. Tabloid sources are valid (apart, of course, from the Daily Mail). Outright prejudicial censorship, if that is what's happening. Quality is in the eye of the beholder.
Ref(chew)(do)15:39, 29 April 2020 (UTC)reply
And if either of those publications happens to be the ONLY source available at a certain time, you keep out what will turn into a valid entry because of that? Great state of affairs if so, and it is undeniably censorship by consensus. Don't sound so puzzled - I'm purely making a point based on my opinion, not arguing for my ability to ignore the convention.
Ref(chew)(do)18:12, 29 April 2020 (UTC)reply
The idea that we should keep unreliable sources in an article because no better sources are available goes against, like, every part of
WP:V as a policy.
Praxidicae (
talk)
10:04, 30 April 2020 (UTC)reply
I've been reading different articles, and some of them say either brain cancer/cancer or brain tumor. Should it be changed, or leave it the way it is?
MikaelaArsenault (
talk)
01:19, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I am actually going to throw a flag here. We need to investigate this. Variety has stated he died from complications of lung cancer which makes sense. It is one of those weird connections where lung cancer spreads through the body and it hits the brain first. So this either should be a brain tumor as a complication of lung cancer, metastatic cancer or complications from lung cancer. Your pick...here is the link:
[9].
Sunnydoo (
talk)
21:42, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I was wondering when I saw this b/c the US media usually state which of the 2 brain common cancers (astrocytomas or glioblastomas) it was. Neither was cited but this makes sense now that it was lung cancer.
Sunnydoo (
talk)
21:46, 2 May 2020 (UTC)reply
NYT corroborates complications from lung cancer, and they phrase it as “Kevin Turner, a representative for Mr. Lloyd, confirmed his death on Saturday. He died of complications from lung cancer, his family said in a statement.” Case closed in my books.
Rusted AutoParts03:55, 3 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Mikaela, please read the FAQs at the top of this page. They will answer most of the questions that you post here.
WWGB (
talk)
00:41, 3 May 2020 (UTC)reply