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Archive 1 |
-- Another Believer ( Talk) 02:56, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
This page should not be speedily deleted because Nelson Mandela was a man who changed the world forever. His death has left a scar on South Africa, and it has sent shockwaves through the world. Life without Mr. Mandela will never be the same for the people of South Africa, who knew him as a national hero and as a father figure. 2605:E000:1803:2F:6DA7:F726:9F23:4ACB ( talk) 05:31, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
This page should not be speedily deleted because... This is a current event that is still active and evolving. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 105.233.28.5 ( talk) 05:35, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
There is no line given in this article saying how this is notable.
A7 for speedy deletion says that if "An article about a real person, individual animal(s), organization, web content or organized event that does not indicate why its subject is important or significant, with the exception of educational institutions" is given, it can be nominated for speedy deletion.
This article CLEARLY breaks this rule. In addition, there is NO exception A7. I have attempted to help reach consensus, but I've basically been told to "Shut up". I'll give this article a couple hours, if no reason has been provided, I will take the appropriate actions to help get this article deleted. I am not trying to start an edit war, this is just common sense and Wikipedia guidelines. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Diphractor ( talk • contribs) 05:21, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
>> Echoes of a man much-loved >> Mandela Dies With Rainbow Nation Dream Still Work in Progress >> Mandela’s Death Leaves South Africa Yearning for Better Leaders >> Mandela’s Economic Legacy Threatened by S. Africa Inequality >> South Africans Flock to Mandela’s Home to Mourn His Death >> Obama Calls Mandela an Example That Should Inspire World >> De Klerk: Afrikaners will mourn Madiba's death >> White Afrikaner Group Fears Genocide Upon Mandela’s Death (Video) >> Mandela Memorial Events Set to Draw Thousands in South Africa >> South Africans Unite to Celebrate Mandela as Nation Builder >> v Former Presidents Bush, Clinton to Attend Mandela Service >> Overwhelming crowds set to honour Mandela >> S Africa begins Mandela week of remembrance >> World leaders react to the passing of Mandela >> Mandela death: Daughter Makaziwe tells of final moments >> South African parliament honours Mandela >> Q and A: South Africa's Julius Malema *** > >Thousands gather for Mandela memorial [1] [2]* >> Mandela lies in state as SA says goodbye [3] >> Life after Madiba >> Mandela Memorial: World Leaders Bow, Pray At Madiba's Casket >> Memorial missed Madiba magic >> Thousands throng to Mandela mourning site >> Mandela: The stylings of an icon >> 'I was jailed along with Nelson Mandela' >> desomond tut not attending mandela funeral >> Nelson Mandela's body arrives in home village >> Hamba kahle, Madiba >> People of all ages pay tribute to Mandela >> Mandela buried in his ancestral village << Let freedom reign >> Locked out of Mandela's funeral >> S Africa unveils statue in honour of Mandela [] http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2013/12/qa-post-mandela-south-africa-20131217103255658240.html >> Q&A: The post-Mandela South Africa] >> 'Mr President, I am Castro': Raul to Obama( Lihaas ( talk) 14:41, 6 December 2013 (UTC)).[
The heading titles for this article seem a little confusing to me. For example, the majority of the people quoted here are individuals, yet the "individuals" section only lists 4 people at the time of this edit. This appears to be a WP:PRECISION violation to me.
In addition, as per WP:TITLE, which generally applies to section headings as well, some of the headings are difficult to understand. What does "domestic" mean? What does "Supranational organisations" mean? Shouldn't we follow WP:COMMONNAME?
I'd like to be bold, but I think it's best to discuss this before making any changes. Diphractor ( talk) 17:37, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
Then why not just put South Africa? Wouldn't this be a little easier for readers to understand? And couldn't 'supranational' be replaced with 'international'? The latter term is far more understandable. Diphractor ( talk) 17:55, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
I wish to place on record here my apology for my violations of WP:CIVIL. I have had less than three hours sleep in total since 05:00 yesterday. I have only catnapped since the news first broke - which was just at my usual bedtime yesterday. I am now logging off to go to bed. Roger (Dodger67) ( talk) 18:32, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
I don't know why this has become the norm, but it seems to be lately. Why is this article necessary? We aren't a directory of sources nor should we be listing off every notable person's comments regarding his death. A select few ([WP:UNDUE]] to include the condolences of some head of state halfway across the globe) should be selected and integrated into the prose of the currently tiny death section in the Nelson Mandela article. - Floydian τ ¢ 09:22, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
The very fact that there are dozens of very highly reliable secondary sources cited in this page is by definition proof of Notability. Whether that notability will be lasting cannot be predicted yet, so this proposed deletion is premature. If in a month or three the content of this page turns out to have been merely a flash in the pan, then we can look at deletion, but while the subject is literally the only topic the whole world's media is headlining it is simply irrational to diss this page. Roger (Dodger67) ( talk) 16:13, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
I think this article should be merged/changed/deleted because of WP:QUOTEFARM(no pertinence) and WP:UNDUE. Diphractor ( talk) 16:39, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
If the deletionists here are so sure of their case, send it to AFD right now or else STFU. Roger (Dodger67) ( talk) 16:53, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
I don't think anyone is particularly suggesting immediate deletion any more. The sentence "Reactions from governments, international organizations, notable individuals, and the media worldwide have gained worldwide media coverage." makes a reasonable claim of notability, which is backed up by the stuff in the article (though a citation backing it up isn't actually needed to meet A7). Just because the article shouldn't be sent to AFD does not mean there aren't major issues with the article itself. WP:RAPID is indeed something to think about. Depending on if we are in consensus a while from this current time, sending this to AFD may not even be necessary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Diphractor ( talk • contribs) 17:27, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
If this has become the norm I don't know why people fight it, the fact is that it works. Multiple mentions is media is not a bad thing and gives the reader an around the world look at the reactions to someone important that has died. - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 19:32, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
This page should not be speedily deleted because Nelson Mandela is important, and what's the harm in leaving it up? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.19.55.218 ( talk) 05:27, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
This article is not about Nelson Mandela persay. This is about reactions to the death of Nelson Mandela, which the article fails to contend why it is notable in any way, shape or form.
Diphractor ( talk) 05:29, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
Mainly, because none of the reasons given were particularly legitimate given Wikipedia's guidelines. As you have pointed out, this article may just need time, as it could be improved. Though this article could be somewhat merged into the Nelson Mandela article, under a Legacy section maybe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Diphractor ( talk • contribs) 05:42, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
Take it to AfD if you think this should be deleted, though I don't hold out much hope there either. I do not think this does meet the CSD criteria mainly due to it's notability i.e. most of these reactions have been/ will be the subject of worldwide media coverage, also if a CSD is reasonably contested then AfD is the place to go for reasoned debate about the issue. Personally I am not a big fan of this type of (grotesque?) personality contest to see who can be the first to offer condolences and get quoted the most, but thats not out concern here. -- wintonian talk 05:52, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
It is grossly premature to tag this - we don't need to have a crystal ball to know that the worldwide reactions to Mandela's death are and will be widespread. Give this article a chance to develop, and then after time passes, see if you still want to delete it and then do it the proper way. Continually tagging it is contentious behavior. Leave it alone - you are not protecting the encyclopedia, you are being disruptive. Tvoz/ talk 20:11, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
Right now Death of Nelson Mandela is a redirect, I feel that since a-lot of information about his death reactions are already included here, why don't we move the content to the redirect page and expand on that? I think editors can agree that his death is more notable than the reactions alone. - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 20:15, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
Hi all just a heads up, I am currently doing a restructuring of this article before moving it to Death and state funeral of Nelson Mandela. Reallynca ( talk) 18:50, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
Shouldn't Funeral of Nelson Mandela ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) redirect to here ( Death of Nelson Mandela) instead of Nelson Mandela ? -- 65.94.78.9 ( talk) 09:11, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
I do not understand why using flags in these circumstances is a violation of WP:MOSFLAG. It says:
My addition was the statement made by Sweden's Prime Minster. He is a government official
213.66.81.80 ( talk) 16:32, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
I recently reverted a page move that moved the talk page to "Death and funeral" with the argument that other articles, such as Funeral of Diana, Princess of Wales and Death and funeral of Margaret Thatcher make no mention of the word "state". As I understand it, these people didn't have official state funerals, but the occasions were state funerals in everything but name. We do, however, have Death and state funeral of Hugo Chávez and Death and state funeral of Ronald Reagan, which I believe were state funerals. My revert was mainly because the move separated the talk page and article, but I wonder how we should name this article. Any thoughts on this would be welcome. Paul MacDermott ( talk) 11:11, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
The "booers" as a BBC commentator named them, have now made their mark, I think. Obama's speach "knocked it out of the park", another BBC commentator asserted. Been listening all night (was an anit-apartheid activist in college, with Arch. Emeritus Tutu's daughter), and this event seems pretty remarkable. Please keep this page! Soltera ( talk) 13:38, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
I suppose that the cancellation of Benjamin Netanyahu's attendance to the funeral should be added to that section, isnt it?.-- HCPUNXKID ( talk) 18:08, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I suggest that the reaction section be split off, just as the List of dignitaries at the memorial service of Nelson Mandela is a separate article. That section is quite large, and less focused on the process of death and funerary arrangements. It is arguable that the list of dignitaries is more tightly bound to the funerary process than any reactions statements are. -- 65.94.78.9 ( talk) 02:44, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
This discussion is confused - the two separate proposals being discussed together is creating an unnecessary tangle. who is opposing and supporting which one of the two, is almost impossible to figure out. Please discuss each of the proposals separately in their own sections. These are independent proposals - the outcome of one has no effect on the other - so discussing them together is simply unnecessarily confusing. Roger (Dodger67) ( talk) 14:44, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
It is now being said that the translator was suffering from a schizophrenic episode. TacfuJecan ( talk) 13:11, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
Should the point be made that the Sign Language Interpreter prominent on the right was a fake pretending to do sign language?
Fake Sign Language Interpreter
81.174.156.198 ( talk) 22:33, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
Why is there no mention of the handshake between Obama and Raul Castro? It caused a significant amount of media reaction with some saying it could potentially be a good thing for both countries, and others saying it was just a handshake. -- Matt723star ( talk) 15:03, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
This article completely ignores the far more serious embarrassment caused by the boo-ing of President Zuma. Roger (Dodger67) ( talk) 14:38, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
Just a quick heads up that Wikimedia ZA (South African chapter for Wikipedia editors) is planning to have two representatives at Madiba's state funeral on the 10th and 11th of December. I expect there to be many photographs and some content coming out of that which could be used in this article. -- Discott ( talk) 21:16, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
An editor is trying to insist that Taiwan be included as part of the People's Republic of China (PRC) on the basis that the PRC still has claims over Taiwan's territory. This hardly seems an acceptable argument. I have reverted the latest inclusion of Taiwan with the PRC. If the editor wants to make a case and seek a consensus then s/he is now invited to do so here. Afterwriting ( talk) 13:59, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
Just thought I'd bring this discussion to the attention of editors here, in case someone tries to add details of this incident. An ip added it to Thorning-Schmidt's article yesterday, but I removed it because I'm not convinced it's encyclopedic. Paul MacDermott ( talk) 22:49, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
I think speech of the opposition parties should be included in the article as the are also a part of the government and plays a good role in any parliamentary democratic country. - Rahat | Message 10:56, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
Is it worth mentioning anywhere criticism of media coverage relating to this topic? I don't imagine there would be much, but I came across this BBC clip in which former UK Defence Secretary Michael Portillo provides an unfavourable assessment of how the UK media covered events. Paul MacDermott ( talk) 20:03, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
This section has been added and removed several times. Please can we achieve consensus here? It was previously discussed on Talk:Nelson Mandela#Westboro where the consensus was not to include it. Helen Online 06:29, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
And I've removed it as WP:UNDUE. It was using the same sole source as it was when it first popped up in the Mandela article. For an item to be added it should have broad coverage and have some significance beyond mere attention-seeking. Even then, WP:NOTNEWS must be considered. For example, the minutiae of my country's delegation's visit received coverage from all national news outlets but the details do not belong in this article as they have no lasting significance with respect to the death and funeral. -- NeilN talk to me 14:22, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
Can we agree to limit additions to this section to national memorials? Otherwise there'll be hundreds of potential candidates. -- NeilN talk to me 17:55, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
I have an observation and a suggestion about whether or not to keep the article List of dignitaries at the funeral of Nelson Mandela: There are similar circumstances over an article I created several years ago about a list of dignitaries at the state funeral of John F. Kennedy, and the list was so large, it was worthy of a separate article. Maybe we could merge the list onto the main article, but put it into a collapsible list so it doesn't take up as much space? -- JB82 ( talk) 20:16, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recently, the article List of dignitaries at the memorial service of Nelson Mandela was merged into this article by me. Then, Alifazal reverted the move, claiming that there was no consensus from this talk page. Should the former article be merged here, or not? Epicgenius ( talk) 19:02, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
The location of the Nelson Mandela's grave -- Firefishy ( talk) 00:22, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
Is it possible to undo the redirect from "Thamsanqa Jantjies" to this page "Death and state funeral of Nelson Mandela"? Then I can start with a separate page on this person. -- GentleDjinn ( talk) 12:33, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
Would it be indeed in violation of WP:BLP1E ?-- GentleDjinn ( talk) 15:33, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
O.K. But there seems to be another judgment, or at least opinion, about that in the German Wikipedia: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thamsanqa_Jantjie ? -- GentleDjinn ( talk) 08:41, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
Given that the entire section is about reactions, "rewrite them as sourced original prose" may not be appropriate. This section seems consistent with articles like Death and funeral of Margaret Thatcher, Reactions to the September 11 attacks, and International reaction to the United States presidential election, 2008. -- NeilN talk to me 03:40, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
>> Nelson Mandela's will worth $4.1m >> Q&A: The post-Mandela South Africa >> Report: Women claim Mandela is their father ( Lihaas ( talk) 19:18, 3 February 2014 (UTC)).
The result of the move request was: move article to Death of Nelson Mandela Armbrust The Homunculus 23:31, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
Death and state funeral of Nelson Mandela → Death and funeral of Nelson Mandela – There was a private funeral too. So removing the caveat of state includes both the state and private funeral. Lihaas ( talk) 19:19, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
It is perhaps worth noting that Ronald Reagan also had a private funeral, so I'm not sure about the rationale for moving this article. Any thoughts? Paul MacDermott ( talk) 22:16, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
I think the article has been hugely improved since its post-deletion nomination speedy fixes. I have removed all the ratings from the WikiProject boxes, I believe this adds the article to a rating-needed category. Nathan121212 ( talk) 17:25, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
Hello, I just want to draw attention to fairly 'Iffy' translation from Albanian here: [5] , … the text reads :-I was immensely saddened when I learnt about Nelson Mandela passed away. Humanity, with this loss, is biding farewell to one of the most distinguished moral leaders and to the icon of resistance and fight for justice and human dignity. Mandela never kneeled in His fight against Apartheid, not even when he was deprived of freedom for 27 years.
The long years of suffering neither weakened Mandela, nor killed His spirit. On the contrary, they filled Him with the desire for reconciliation and understanding among people. He and His dream triumphed. His vision and kindness save the South African people from suffering and hardships.
Nelson Mandela with His unstoppable run towards freedom left to humanity the heritage of the immense and eternal value, the model of transformation of an époque and of a life of goodness and wisdom.
Now I appreciate that this IS copied verbatim from - and translated into English by - the Presidential website itself, however are we able to remove the worst errors of grammar and spelling (leaving an 'amended' note)? At the moment it reads slightly 'spik Inglish very good'. Pincrete ( talk) 18:36, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
Update: I have just modified/corrected spelling and grammar, (leaving a 'corrected' note). I'm unsure as to WP procedure, but think expressing accurately the sentiments (here) takes precedence over 'verbatim' rendering of the source. Pincrete ( talk) 10:13, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
I seek the wisdom of many people here. I am writing in the 2015 Thalys train attack article. Some propose that there be no flags. Would anyone object if I remove the flags from this article? Sandra opposed to terrorism ( talk) 21:50, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
-- Another Believer ( Talk) 02:56, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
This page should not be speedily deleted because Nelson Mandela was a man who changed the world forever. His death has left a scar on South Africa, and it has sent shockwaves through the world. Life without Mr. Mandela will never be the same for the people of South Africa, who knew him as a national hero and as a father figure. 2605:E000:1803:2F:6DA7:F726:9F23:4ACB ( talk) 05:31, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
This page should not be speedily deleted because... This is a current event that is still active and evolving. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 105.233.28.5 ( talk) 05:35, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
There is no line given in this article saying how this is notable.
A7 for speedy deletion says that if "An article about a real person, individual animal(s), organization, web content or organized event that does not indicate why its subject is important or significant, with the exception of educational institutions" is given, it can be nominated for speedy deletion.
This article CLEARLY breaks this rule. In addition, there is NO exception A7. I have attempted to help reach consensus, but I've basically been told to "Shut up". I'll give this article a couple hours, if no reason has been provided, I will take the appropriate actions to help get this article deleted. I am not trying to start an edit war, this is just common sense and Wikipedia guidelines. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Diphractor ( talk • contribs) 05:21, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
>> Echoes of a man much-loved >> Mandela Dies With Rainbow Nation Dream Still Work in Progress >> Mandela’s Death Leaves South Africa Yearning for Better Leaders >> Mandela’s Economic Legacy Threatened by S. Africa Inequality >> South Africans Flock to Mandela’s Home to Mourn His Death >> Obama Calls Mandela an Example That Should Inspire World >> De Klerk: Afrikaners will mourn Madiba's death >> White Afrikaner Group Fears Genocide Upon Mandela’s Death (Video) >> Mandela Memorial Events Set to Draw Thousands in South Africa >> South Africans Unite to Celebrate Mandela as Nation Builder >> v Former Presidents Bush, Clinton to Attend Mandela Service >> Overwhelming crowds set to honour Mandela >> S Africa begins Mandela week of remembrance >> World leaders react to the passing of Mandela >> Mandela death: Daughter Makaziwe tells of final moments >> South African parliament honours Mandela >> Q and A: South Africa's Julius Malema *** > >Thousands gather for Mandela memorial [1] [2]* >> Mandela lies in state as SA says goodbye [3] >> Life after Madiba >> Mandela Memorial: World Leaders Bow, Pray At Madiba's Casket >> Memorial missed Madiba magic >> Thousands throng to Mandela mourning site >> Mandela: The stylings of an icon >> 'I was jailed along with Nelson Mandela' >> desomond tut not attending mandela funeral >> Nelson Mandela's body arrives in home village >> Hamba kahle, Madiba >> People of all ages pay tribute to Mandela >> Mandela buried in his ancestral village << Let freedom reign >> Locked out of Mandela's funeral >> S Africa unveils statue in honour of Mandela [] http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2013/12/qa-post-mandela-south-africa-20131217103255658240.html >> Q&A: The post-Mandela South Africa] >> 'Mr President, I am Castro': Raul to Obama( Lihaas ( talk) 14:41, 6 December 2013 (UTC)).[
The heading titles for this article seem a little confusing to me. For example, the majority of the people quoted here are individuals, yet the "individuals" section only lists 4 people at the time of this edit. This appears to be a WP:PRECISION violation to me.
In addition, as per WP:TITLE, which generally applies to section headings as well, some of the headings are difficult to understand. What does "domestic" mean? What does "Supranational organisations" mean? Shouldn't we follow WP:COMMONNAME?
I'd like to be bold, but I think it's best to discuss this before making any changes. Diphractor ( talk) 17:37, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
Then why not just put South Africa? Wouldn't this be a little easier for readers to understand? And couldn't 'supranational' be replaced with 'international'? The latter term is far more understandable. Diphractor ( talk) 17:55, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
I wish to place on record here my apology for my violations of WP:CIVIL. I have had less than three hours sleep in total since 05:00 yesterday. I have only catnapped since the news first broke - which was just at my usual bedtime yesterday. I am now logging off to go to bed. Roger (Dodger67) ( talk) 18:32, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
I don't know why this has become the norm, but it seems to be lately. Why is this article necessary? We aren't a directory of sources nor should we be listing off every notable person's comments regarding his death. A select few ([WP:UNDUE]] to include the condolences of some head of state halfway across the globe) should be selected and integrated into the prose of the currently tiny death section in the Nelson Mandela article. - Floydian τ ¢ 09:22, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
The very fact that there are dozens of very highly reliable secondary sources cited in this page is by definition proof of Notability. Whether that notability will be lasting cannot be predicted yet, so this proposed deletion is premature. If in a month or three the content of this page turns out to have been merely a flash in the pan, then we can look at deletion, but while the subject is literally the only topic the whole world's media is headlining it is simply irrational to diss this page. Roger (Dodger67) ( talk) 16:13, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
I think this article should be merged/changed/deleted because of WP:QUOTEFARM(no pertinence) and WP:UNDUE. Diphractor ( talk) 16:39, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
If the deletionists here are so sure of their case, send it to AFD right now or else STFU. Roger (Dodger67) ( talk) 16:53, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
I don't think anyone is particularly suggesting immediate deletion any more. The sentence "Reactions from governments, international organizations, notable individuals, and the media worldwide have gained worldwide media coverage." makes a reasonable claim of notability, which is backed up by the stuff in the article (though a citation backing it up isn't actually needed to meet A7). Just because the article shouldn't be sent to AFD does not mean there aren't major issues with the article itself. WP:RAPID is indeed something to think about. Depending on if we are in consensus a while from this current time, sending this to AFD may not even be necessary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Diphractor ( talk • contribs) 17:27, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
If this has become the norm I don't know why people fight it, the fact is that it works. Multiple mentions is media is not a bad thing and gives the reader an around the world look at the reactions to someone important that has died. - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 19:32, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
This page should not be speedily deleted because Nelson Mandela is important, and what's the harm in leaving it up? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.19.55.218 ( talk) 05:27, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
This article is not about Nelson Mandela persay. This is about reactions to the death of Nelson Mandela, which the article fails to contend why it is notable in any way, shape or form.
Diphractor ( talk) 05:29, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
Mainly, because none of the reasons given were particularly legitimate given Wikipedia's guidelines. As you have pointed out, this article may just need time, as it could be improved. Though this article could be somewhat merged into the Nelson Mandela article, under a Legacy section maybe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Diphractor ( talk • contribs) 05:42, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
Take it to AfD if you think this should be deleted, though I don't hold out much hope there either. I do not think this does meet the CSD criteria mainly due to it's notability i.e. most of these reactions have been/ will be the subject of worldwide media coverage, also if a CSD is reasonably contested then AfD is the place to go for reasoned debate about the issue. Personally I am not a big fan of this type of (grotesque?) personality contest to see who can be the first to offer condolences and get quoted the most, but thats not out concern here. -- wintonian talk 05:52, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
It is grossly premature to tag this - we don't need to have a crystal ball to know that the worldwide reactions to Mandela's death are and will be widespread. Give this article a chance to develop, and then after time passes, see if you still want to delete it and then do it the proper way. Continually tagging it is contentious behavior. Leave it alone - you are not protecting the encyclopedia, you are being disruptive. Tvoz/ talk 20:11, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
Right now Death of Nelson Mandela is a redirect, I feel that since a-lot of information about his death reactions are already included here, why don't we move the content to the redirect page and expand on that? I think editors can agree that his death is more notable than the reactions alone. - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 20:15, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
Hi all just a heads up, I am currently doing a restructuring of this article before moving it to Death and state funeral of Nelson Mandela. Reallynca ( talk) 18:50, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
Shouldn't Funeral of Nelson Mandela ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) redirect to here ( Death of Nelson Mandela) instead of Nelson Mandela ? -- 65.94.78.9 ( talk) 09:11, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
I do not understand why using flags in these circumstances is a violation of WP:MOSFLAG. It says:
My addition was the statement made by Sweden's Prime Minster. He is a government official
213.66.81.80 ( talk) 16:32, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
I recently reverted a page move that moved the talk page to "Death and funeral" with the argument that other articles, such as Funeral of Diana, Princess of Wales and Death and funeral of Margaret Thatcher make no mention of the word "state". As I understand it, these people didn't have official state funerals, but the occasions were state funerals in everything but name. We do, however, have Death and state funeral of Hugo Chávez and Death and state funeral of Ronald Reagan, which I believe were state funerals. My revert was mainly because the move separated the talk page and article, but I wonder how we should name this article. Any thoughts on this would be welcome. Paul MacDermott ( talk) 11:11, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
The "booers" as a BBC commentator named them, have now made their mark, I think. Obama's speach "knocked it out of the park", another BBC commentator asserted. Been listening all night (was an anit-apartheid activist in college, with Arch. Emeritus Tutu's daughter), and this event seems pretty remarkable. Please keep this page! Soltera ( talk) 13:38, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
I suppose that the cancellation of Benjamin Netanyahu's attendance to the funeral should be added to that section, isnt it?.-- HCPUNXKID ( talk) 18:08, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I suggest that the reaction section be split off, just as the List of dignitaries at the memorial service of Nelson Mandela is a separate article. That section is quite large, and less focused on the process of death and funerary arrangements. It is arguable that the list of dignitaries is more tightly bound to the funerary process than any reactions statements are. -- 65.94.78.9 ( talk) 02:44, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
This discussion is confused - the two separate proposals being discussed together is creating an unnecessary tangle. who is opposing and supporting which one of the two, is almost impossible to figure out. Please discuss each of the proposals separately in their own sections. These are independent proposals - the outcome of one has no effect on the other - so discussing them together is simply unnecessarily confusing. Roger (Dodger67) ( talk) 14:44, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
It is now being said that the translator was suffering from a schizophrenic episode. TacfuJecan ( talk) 13:11, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
Should the point be made that the Sign Language Interpreter prominent on the right was a fake pretending to do sign language?
Fake Sign Language Interpreter
81.174.156.198 ( talk) 22:33, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
Why is there no mention of the handshake between Obama and Raul Castro? It caused a significant amount of media reaction with some saying it could potentially be a good thing for both countries, and others saying it was just a handshake. -- Matt723star ( talk) 15:03, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
This article completely ignores the far more serious embarrassment caused by the boo-ing of President Zuma. Roger (Dodger67) ( talk) 14:38, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
Just a quick heads up that Wikimedia ZA (South African chapter for Wikipedia editors) is planning to have two representatives at Madiba's state funeral on the 10th and 11th of December. I expect there to be many photographs and some content coming out of that which could be used in this article. -- Discott ( talk) 21:16, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
An editor is trying to insist that Taiwan be included as part of the People's Republic of China (PRC) on the basis that the PRC still has claims over Taiwan's territory. This hardly seems an acceptable argument. I have reverted the latest inclusion of Taiwan with the PRC. If the editor wants to make a case and seek a consensus then s/he is now invited to do so here. Afterwriting ( talk) 13:59, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
Just thought I'd bring this discussion to the attention of editors here, in case someone tries to add details of this incident. An ip added it to Thorning-Schmidt's article yesterday, but I removed it because I'm not convinced it's encyclopedic. Paul MacDermott ( talk) 22:49, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
I think speech of the opposition parties should be included in the article as the are also a part of the government and plays a good role in any parliamentary democratic country. - Rahat | Message 10:56, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
Is it worth mentioning anywhere criticism of media coverage relating to this topic? I don't imagine there would be much, but I came across this BBC clip in which former UK Defence Secretary Michael Portillo provides an unfavourable assessment of how the UK media covered events. Paul MacDermott ( talk) 20:03, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
This section has been added and removed several times. Please can we achieve consensus here? It was previously discussed on Talk:Nelson Mandela#Westboro where the consensus was not to include it. Helen Online 06:29, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
And I've removed it as WP:UNDUE. It was using the same sole source as it was when it first popped up in the Mandela article. For an item to be added it should have broad coverage and have some significance beyond mere attention-seeking. Even then, WP:NOTNEWS must be considered. For example, the minutiae of my country's delegation's visit received coverage from all national news outlets but the details do not belong in this article as they have no lasting significance with respect to the death and funeral. -- NeilN talk to me 14:22, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
Can we agree to limit additions to this section to national memorials? Otherwise there'll be hundreds of potential candidates. -- NeilN talk to me 17:55, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
I have an observation and a suggestion about whether or not to keep the article List of dignitaries at the funeral of Nelson Mandela: There are similar circumstances over an article I created several years ago about a list of dignitaries at the state funeral of John F. Kennedy, and the list was so large, it was worthy of a separate article. Maybe we could merge the list onto the main article, but put it into a collapsible list so it doesn't take up as much space? -- JB82 ( talk) 20:16, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recently, the article List of dignitaries at the memorial service of Nelson Mandela was merged into this article by me. Then, Alifazal reverted the move, claiming that there was no consensus from this talk page. Should the former article be merged here, or not? Epicgenius ( talk) 19:02, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
The location of the Nelson Mandela's grave -- Firefishy ( talk) 00:22, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
Is it possible to undo the redirect from "Thamsanqa Jantjies" to this page "Death and state funeral of Nelson Mandela"? Then I can start with a separate page on this person. -- GentleDjinn ( talk) 12:33, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
Would it be indeed in violation of WP:BLP1E ?-- GentleDjinn ( talk) 15:33, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
O.K. But there seems to be another judgment, or at least opinion, about that in the German Wikipedia: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thamsanqa_Jantjie ? -- GentleDjinn ( talk) 08:41, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
Given that the entire section is about reactions, "rewrite them as sourced original prose" may not be appropriate. This section seems consistent with articles like Death and funeral of Margaret Thatcher, Reactions to the September 11 attacks, and International reaction to the United States presidential election, 2008. -- NeilN talk to me 03:40, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
>> Nelson Mandela's will worth $4.1m >> Q&A: The post-Mandela South Africa >> Report: Women claim Mandela is their father ( Lihaas ( talk) 19:18, 3 February 2014 (UTC)).
The result of the move request was: move article to Death of Nelson Mandela Armbrust The Homunculus 23:31, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
Death and state funeral of Nelson Mandela → Death and funeral of Nelson Mandela – There was a private funeral too. So removing the caveat of state includes both the state and private funeral. Lihaas ( talk) 19:19, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
It is perhaps worth noting that Ronald Reagan also had a private funeral, so I'm not sure about the rationale for moving this article. Any thoughts? Paul MacDermott ( talk) 22:16, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
I think the article has been hugely improved since its post-deletion nomination speedy fixes. I have removed all the ratings from the WikiProject boxes, I believe this adds the article to a rating-needed category. Nathan121212 ( talk) 17:25, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
Hello, I just want to draw attention to fairly 'Iffy' translation from Albanian here: [5] , … the text reads :-I was immensely saddened when I learnt about Nelson Mandela passed away. Humanity, with this loss, is biding farewell to one of the most distinguished moral leaders and to the icon of resistance and fight for justice and human dignity. Mandela never kneeled in His fight against Apartheid, not even when he was deprived of freedom for 27 years.
The long years of suffering neither weakened Mandela, nor killed His spirit. On the contrary, they filled Him with the desire for reconciliation and understanding among people. He and His dream triumphed. His vision and kindness save the South African people from suffering and hardships.
Nelson Mandela with His unstoppable run towards freedom left to humanity the heritage of the immense and eternal value, the model of transformation of an époque and of a life of goodness and wisdom.
Now I appreciate that this IS copied verbatim from - and translated into English by - the Presidential website itself, however are we able to remove the worst errors of grammar and spelling (leaving an 'amended' note)? At the moment it reads slightly 'spik Inglish very good'. Pincrete ( talk) 18:36, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
Update: I have just modified/corrected spelling and grammar, (leaving a 'corrected' note). I'm unsure as to WP procedure, but think expressing accurately the sentiments (here) takes precedence over 'verbatim' rendering of the source. Pincrete ( talk) 10:13, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
I seek the wisdom of many people here. I am writing in the 2015 Thalys train attack article. Some propose that there be no flags. Would anyone object if I remove the flags from this article? Sandra opposed to terrorism ( talk) 21:50, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
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