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On 15 November 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Dead end. The result of the discussion was Moved first to Dead end street, second not moved.. |
When chased after, entering a cul-du-sac is disadvantageous, except when one is on foot or has a narrower vehicle than the chasing party, and there is a narrow exit.
Is this something that should be in an encyclopedia or "Hollywood 101"? -- Lucky13pjn 20:06, Jun 13, 2004 (UTC)
Why is the cul-de-sac on this image so accidental? -- Abdull 03:43, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
I don't recall ever hearing this word growing up in Connecticut. They were always just 'courts.' Is this a regional phrase?—Preceding unsigned comment added by Gregbard ( talk • contribs) 02:20, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
Its not a regional phrase...Americans are too close-minded to use it 74.96.215.187 02:24, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
I believe there is an aspect of dialect with this term. I had never even heard of the word "cul-de-sac" until I saw the Ed, Edd, and Eddy cartoons as a teenager. In my area (West Tennessee) a "cul-de-sac" is known simply as a "cove" by the majority of the population. ( 75.65.220.204 ( talk) 01:00, 11 April 2013 (UTC))
Please see Prescriptivism. While the etymologically correct form may well be "culs-de-sac", anyone who used that nowadays where I live, even in an academic paper, would be seen as pretentious or even wrong. "culs de sac" finds less than 100K results on Google (many of which are just people lecturing others about how it is the correct plural), while "cul de sacs" finds over 600K. I don't really care which one this article uses, but I do think the sentence about the correct plural form needs to be taken out of the introductory paragraph (and preferrably out of the article altogether) as it is clearly not the majority form. -- Node 10:29, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
I've standardized it at culs-de-sac. I don't really care that much, though culs-de-sac seems more technically correct to me and is supported by the spelling in the title of the UCD article. If someone has a strong opinion, feel free to change it, but please don't just revert; there was some of each, and it'd be silly to send it back that way. 97.94.188.47 ( talk) 23:15, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
Why these two points are not together?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.64.221.101 ( talk) 14:09, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
I think that it is good to put all versions to "Cul-de-sac (disambiguation)" and in "Other uses" put the link only.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.64.221.101 ( talk) 14:11, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
aren't cul-de-sacs normally differentiated from a normal dead-end because there are no corners in them? A dead-end can have corners but I always thought a cul-de-sac was rounded at the end.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.186.193.229 ( talk) 00:02, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't the text at the beginning have a translation? -- escondites 17:01, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
While it could be okay to say that cul-de-sac translates to "bottom of bag", if the article asserts that the transalation is literal then it is not quite right. A literal translation of "bottom of bag" would be "bas-de-sac", and going the other way, a literal translation of "cul-de-sac" would be "ass of bag".
Google Translate offers no meaning in Catalan for "cul" at all, which casts doubt on the article's assertion about that translation.
In French, Google Translate offers the following choices for the meaning of the word "cul":
1.ass
2.butt
3.rump
4.fanny (US sense)
5.prat (figurative)
At best, "bottom" is a euphemism, which isn't good enough for a translation described as literal.
Gteabo (
talk)
10:00, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Why do you lie? Cul is ass simply in catalan and any catalan speaker knows it. And Google translate offers the meaning "ass" for the word "cul" when you search this word. -- 88.14.247.253 ( talk) 11:07, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
OED: "Etymology: French = sack-bottom, bag-bottom." this is what should be used rather than a translation by Wikipedia editors. -- PBS ( talk) 11:52, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
Hi, I put "ass of a bag" because that is the correct meaning in French. Example : "pousse ton gros cul mon pote" will mean "move your big ass friend", not his back :). Also used in French to call the part of a bottle which is in contact with the table : "un cul de bouteille". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.173.199.173 ( talk) 03:17, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
"Ass" is American English, on http://dictionary.reverso.net/french-english/cul [1] we have the phrase "cul sec!" Which they state means "Down in one!" or "Bottoms Up!" in English. Therefore "cul" does literally mean "bottom".—Preceding unsigned comment added by Solatiumz ( talk • contribs) 17:43, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
"... its modern use is to calm vehicle traffic. It has also been accused of creating communities which require the use of a car and are badly connected for pedestrians and cyclists."
It is important to remember that it is possible to build cul-de-sacs such that there are still route for pedestrians and cyclists. This encourages walking and cycling whilst still providing all the benefits of traffic calming. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.163.165.185 ( talk) 11:12, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
The article says the French use a specific road sign. In fact it is not just French:
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.172.67.54 ( talk) 09:16, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
I have been a professional transportation and land use planner in the United States for 21 years. My wife is also a professional land use planner (AICP). We both hold Master's degrees. We have NEVER heard any other planner or traffic engineer say "culs-de-sac". Not one time. I can't recall seeing it pluralized that way in any academic journals. The 100s of professional planners I have known use "cul-de-sacs" because in American English it is one word and the plural goes at the end. However, I am not suprised that the know-it-alls at NPR would pluralize it "culs-de-sac". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.5.154.54 ( talk) 00:44, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
There appear to be a vast number of citation errors in the article -- perhaps as a result of vandalism. Can someone fix it? -- MicahBrwn ( talk) 07:00, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Why is there a misspell in the last paragraph of "eead end" ? am I missing something? Georgegh ( talk) 02:13, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
@Gerogegh Why do you report spelling mistakes without fixing them? It's easy.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a01:e35:8a8d:fe80:24a1:2c94:7c95:2742 ( talk) 13:59, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
I live in Australia and I have [b]never[/b] heard anyone call a Cul-de-sac a 'court', only, 'dead end', 'no-through-road' and 'cul-de-sac'. I realise these these streets can be called 'courts', for example Tenth Street could be called Tenth Court, but I've never heard anyone actually call a cul-de-sac a court, and both the houses I've ever lived in have been on cul-de-sacs. JWPJ ( talk) 16:52, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
It is interesting to see different street signs, here. I remember getting lost in a cul de sac in Dublin, years ago, as I didn't know French (and was used to the German traffic sign that resambles the Belgian one). But for further namings (Chinese etc.), I regard the selection of languages as arbitrary - this is rather a topic for the wikionary, I think. You could just point to the corresponding lemmata in these languages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.49.167.81 ( talk) 15:08, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
Why does this article bear a French name when it's DEFINITELY not the most common name for what it describes? I'd say applying this is in order. -- uKER ( talk) 02:32, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Currently the lead states:
A cul-de-sac (literally "arse of the bag" in French) is an expression of French origin also used in Catalan and Occitan referring to a dead end ( British English, Canadian, American and Australian English), close, no through road ( British English, Canadian and Australian English) or court ( American and Australian English) meaning dead-end street with only one inlet/outlet. While historically built for other reasons, one of its modern uses is to calm vehicle traffic.
I think this lead is inaccurate for several reasons. Although the OED sates "Etymology: French = sack-bottom, bag-bottom." with a meaning of "A street, lane, or passage closed at one end, a blind alley; a place having no outlet except by the entrance;", I think that is a better description for which the "no through road" sign is used. A "no through road" (or "dead end") in British English is not usually a synonym for cul-de-sac. A "no through road" is any road that does not have another exit for motorised vehicles from the "no through road" located. For example a road may end and a footpath continue, that is a dead end for road traffic, or it may end because it simply has no other exit (eg because it leads to a carpark, or a beach, or has been block to stop commuter rat runs etc, etc). Most British people would describe these types of roads as "dead ends" They reserve cud-de-sac a short no through road with houses on both sides and the end with their frontages onto the no through road. It will of course have a "no through road sigh" but that is a function of the road layout not a description of what a "cul de sac" is. -- PBS ( talk) 11:47, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
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I realize that many people do indeed use the terms interchangeably, but the article should also point out that many people believe there is a distinction. Specifically, a cul-de-sac is a type of dead end where the end has a "bulb" shape to facilitate turning around. It may be regional, but where I live, most people wouldn't consider a dead end without a bulb a cul-de-sac. Does that make sense? All cul-de-sacs are dead ends, but not all dead ends are cul-de-sacs?
If you're looking for source consider definition 2 on wikitionary [1] and this page [2]. Jon uw ( talk) 01:31, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
References
It's not pronounced the French way, or a way approaching, like many borrowed words? French pronunciation is "kydsak". I'm surprised English language pronounce the "l".—Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a01:e35:8a8d:fe80:24a1:2c94:7c95:2742 ( talk) 13:57, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
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I undid the edit on 21:05, April 12, 2018 by B137 since the image added did not really relate to the article on the topic of a 'dead end street'. According to the caption it was provided to demonstrate an example of a humorously worded road sign, which really doesn't belong here. If someone disagrees with this please feel free to reply.-- The Navigators ( talk)-May British Rail Rest in Peace. 06:23, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved first to Dead end street, second not moved. The majority of commenters seemed to prefer Dead end street over Dead end so I moved the first one there. Leaving the second page as is had universal consensus. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 ( talk) 18:19, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
– The street seems to be the WP:PTOPIC for the term "dead end" with respect to long-term significance; the average reader who is looking for information on "dead end" would probably expect to come here. I think that this should probably usurp the primary title, and that the disambiguation page that sits there should be moved away from it. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 04:58, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
References
{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: location (
link) CS1 maint: location missing publisher (
link)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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On 15 November 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Dead end. The result of the discussion was Moved first to Dead end street, second not moved.. |
When chased after, entering a cul-du-sac is disadvantageous, except when one is on foot or has a narrower vehicle than the chasing party, and there is a narrow exit.
Is this something that should be in an encyclopedia or "Hollywood 101"? -- Lucky13pjn 20:06, Jun 13, 2004 (UTC)
Why is the cul-de-sac on this image so accidental? -- Abdull 03:43, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
I don't recall ever hearing this word growing up in Connecticut. They were always just 'courts.' Is this a regional phrase?—Preceding unsigned comment added by Gregbard ( talk • contribs) 02:20, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
Its not a regional phrase...Americans are too close-minded to use it 74.96.215.187 02:24, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
I believe there is an aspect of dialect with this term. I had never even heard of the word "cul-de-sac" until I saw the Ed, Edd, and Eddy cartoons as a teenager. In my area (West Tennessee) a "cul-de-sac" is known simply as a "cove" by the majority of the population. ( 75.65.220.204 ( talk) 01:00, 11 April 2013 (UTC))
Please see Prescriptivism. While the etymologically correct form may well be "culs-de-sac", anyone who used that nowadays where I live, even in an academic paper, would be seen as pretentious or even wrong. "culs de sac" finds less than 100K results on Google (many of which are just people lecturing others about how it is the correct plural), while "cul de sacs" finds over 600K. I don't really care which one this article uses, but I do think the sentence about the correct plural form needs to be taken out of the introductory paragraph (and preferrably out of the article altogether) as it is clearly not the majority form. -- Node 10:29, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
I've standardized it at culs-de-sac. I don't really care that much, though culs-de-sac seems more technically correct to me and is supported by the spelling in the title of the UCD article. If someone has a strong opinion, feel free to change it, but please don't just revert; there was some of each, and it'd be silly to send it back that way. 97.94.188.47 ( talk) 23:15, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
Why these two points are not together?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.64.221.101 ( talk) 14:09, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
I think that it is good to put all versions to "Cul-de-sac (disambiguation)" and in "Other uses" put the link only.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.64.221.101 ( talk) 14:11, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
aren't cul-de-sacs normally differentiated from a normal dead-end because there are no corners in them? A dead-end can have corners but I always thought a cul-de-sac was rounded at the end.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.186.193.229 ( talk) 00:02, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't the text at the beginning have a translation? -- escondites 17:01, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
While it could be okay to say that cul-de-sac translates to "bottom of bag", if the article asserts that the transalation is literal then it is not quite right. A literal translation of "bottom of bag" would be "bas-de-sac", and going the other way, a literal translation of "cul-de-sac" would be "ass of bag".
Google Translate offers no meaning in Catalan for "cul" at all, which casts doubt on the article's assertion about that translation.
In French, Google Translate offers the following choices for the meaning of the word "cul":
1.ass
2.butt
3.rump
4.fanny (US sense)
5.prat (figurative)
At best, "bottom" is a euphemism, which isn't good enough for a translation described as literal.
Gteabo (
talk)
10:00, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Why do you lie? Cul is ass simply in catalan and any catalan speaker knows it. And Google translate offers the meaning "ass" for the word "cul" when you search this word. -- 88.14.247.253 ( talk) 11:07, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
OED: "Etymology: French = sack-bottom, bag-bottom." this is what should be used rather than a translation by Wikipedia editors. -- PBS ( talk) 11:52, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
Hi, I put "ass of a bag" because that is the correct meaning in French. Example : "pousse ton gros cul mon pote" will mean "move your big ass friend", not his back :). Also used in French to call the part of a bottle which is in contact with the table : "un cul de bouteille". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.173.199.173 ( talk) 03:17, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
"Ass" is American English, on http://dictionary.reverso.net/french-english/cul [1] we have the phrase "cul sec!" Which they state means "Down in one!" or "Bottoms Up!" in English. Therefore "cul" does literally mean "bottom".—Preceding unsigned comment added by Solatiumz ( talk • contribs) 17:43, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
"... its modern use is to calm vehicle traffic. It has also been accused of creating communities which require the use of a car and are badly connected for pedestrians and cyclists."
It is important to remember that it is possible to build cul-de-sacs such that there are still route for pedestrians and cyclists. This encourages walking and cycling whilst still providing all the benefits of traffic calming. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.163.165.185 ( talk) 11:12, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
The article says the French use a specific road sign. In fact it is not just French:
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.172.67.54 ( talk) 09:16, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
I have been a professional transportation and land use planner in the United States for 21 years. My wife is also a professional land use planner (AICP). We both hold Master's degrees. We have NEVER heard any other planner or traffic engineer say "culs-de-sac". Not one time. I can't recall seeing it pluralized that way in any academic journals. The 100s of professional planners I have known use "cul-de-sacs" because in American English it is one word and the plural goes at the end. However, I am not suprised that the know-it-alls at NPR would pluralize it "culs-de-sac". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.5.154.54 ( talk) 00:44, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
There appear to be a vast number of citation errors in the article -- perhaps as a result of vandalism. Can someone fix it? -- MicahBrwn ( talk) 07:00, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Why is there a misspell in the last paragraph of "eead end" ? am I missing something? Georgegh ( talk) 02:13, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
@Gerogegh Why do you report spelling mistakes without fixing them? It's easy.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a01:e35:8a8d:fe80:24a1:2c94:7c95:2742 ( talk) 13:59, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
I live in Australia and I have [b]never[/b] heard anyone call a Cul-de-sac a 'court', only, 'dead end', 'no-through-road' and 'cul-de-sac'. I realise these these streets can be called 'courts', for example Tenth Street could be called Tenth Court, but I've never heard anyone actually call a cul-de-sac a court, and both the houses I've ever lived in have been on cul-de-sacs. JWPJ ( talk) 16:52, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
It is interesting to see different street signs, here. I remember getting lost in a cul de sac in Dublin, years ago, as I didn't know French (and was used to the German traffic sign that resambles the Belgian one). But for further namings (Chinese etc.), I regard the selection of languages as arbitrary - this is rather a topic for the wikionary, I think. You could just point to the corresponding lemmata in these languages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.49.167.81 ( talk) 15:08, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
Why does this article bear a French name when it's DEFINITELY not the most common name for what it describes? I'd say applying this is in order. -- uKER ( talk) 02:32, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Currently the lead states:
A cul-de-sac (literally "arse of the bag" in French) is an expression of French origin also used in Catalan and Occitan referring to a dead end ( British English, Canadian, American and Australian English), close, no through road ( British English, Canadian and Australian English) or court ( American and Australian English) meaning dead-end street with only one inlet/outlet. While historically built for other reasons, one of its modern uses is to calm vehicle traffic.
I think this lead is inaccurate for several reasons. Although the OED sates "Etymology: French = sack-bottom, bag-bottom." with a meaning of "A street, lane, or passage closed at one end, a blind alley; a place having no outlet except by the entrance;", I think that is a better description for which the "no through road" sign is used. A "no through road" (or "dead end") in British English is not usually a synonym for cul-de-sac. A "no through road" is any road that does not have another exit for motorised vehicles from the "no through road" located. For example a road may end and a footpath continue, that is a dead end for road traffic, or it may end because it simply has no other exit (eg because it leads to a carpark, or a beach, or has been block to stop commuter rat runs etc, etc). Most British people would describe these types of roads as "dead ends" They reserve cud-de-sac a short no through road with houses on both sides and the end with their frontages onto the no through road. It will of course have a "no through road sigh" but that is a function of the road layout not a description of what a "cul de sac" is. -- PBS ( talk) 11:47, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
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Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 19:59, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
I realize that many people do indeed use the terms interchangeably, but the article should also point out that many people believe there is a distinction. Specifically, a cul-de-sac is a type of dead end where the end has a "bulb" shape to facilitate turning around. It may be regional, but where I live, most people wouldn't consider a dead end without a bulb a cul-de-sac. Does that make sense? All cul-de-sacs are dead ends, but not all dead ends are cul-de-sacs?
If you're looking for source consider definition 2 on wikitionary [1] and this page [2]. Jon uw ( talk) 01:31, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
References
It's not pronounced the French way, or a way approaching, like many borrowed words? French pronunciation is "kydsak". I'm surprised English language pronounce the "l".—Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a01:e35:8a8d:fe80:24a1:2c94:7c95:2742 ( talk) 13:57, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
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I undid the edit on 21:05, April 12, 2018 by B137 since the image added did not really relate to the article on the topic of a 'dead end street'. According to the caption it was provided to demonstrate an example of a humorously worded road sign, which really doesn't belong here. If someone disagrees with this please feel free to reply.-- The Navigators ( talk)-May British Rail Rest in Peace. 06:23, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved first to Dead end street, second not moved. The majority of commenters seemed to prefer Dead end street over Dead end so I moved the first one there. Leaving the second page as is had universal consensus. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 ( talk) 18:19, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
– The street seems to be the WP:PTOPIC for the term "dead end" with respect to long-term significance; the average reader who is looking for information on "dead end" would probably expect to come here. I think that this should probably usurp the primary title, and that the disambiguation page that sits there should be moved away from it. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 04:58, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
References
{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: location (
link) CS1 maint: location missing publisher (
link)