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I removed the information on MSM/Gay men and HIV because it is not relevant to Day of Silence, though it may be relevant to the MSM/Gay male community as a whole. The section on citing of statistics in relation to NDOS is certainly sufficient
I understand that the Day of Silence is April 13th this year (2005). Is it April 13th in every year? How is the date determined? -- Creidieki 03:34, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I think there should be a criticism section. And no, I'm not an anti-queer christian or anything, I'm a queer anarchist with many gay and bi friends and have taken part in DOS 2 or 3 times. I personally feel it is somewhat ineffective. I think a Day of Shouting would be much better. Or any day to actually give our voices a chance to shine. The problem is, people try to ask what your doing, and you can't really tell them b/c all you have is a little card and it is really hard to truly convince anyone of anything if you can't articulate your position. Another idea, would be to have an entire week of queer activism including a DOS along with other more vocal and less-symbolic protests at the same time. On a campus with lenient rules rules regarding shows of affection, have a gay makeout session or something on the quad. Confronting heterosexist student organizations, speakers, campaigns for gender-neutral bathrooms etc. Just my two cents. But anyway, I don't just want to put my own personal rant into the article, so if there are any good sources of similar (or other criticisms), a critique section to the article would be good.
I am neutral on the issue of whether there "should" be a criticisms section, however, there should only be one if there is information to include in it. I took some time to look for references regarding the criticisms offered in the section, or to find any others, and I have not been able to find any discussion or instance of those opinions. Therefore I am removing the following two paragraphs until such time as a citation can be included:
Without citations these paragraphs contain no information, only opinion, and therefore I think they don't warrant inclusion even with the [citation needed] note.
Because there is no available criticism, I am changing the heading to the more accurate term "opposition" and rewriting the "Day Of Truth" paragraph to indicate accurately that it is a Christian evangelical group opposed to homosexuality; the reference comes from the organization's own web page.
Since the 2006 date is approaching this page is likely to get a lot of visits in the next couple of weeks, so it is more important than ever to have a high standard of accuracy and neutral information. BarkingDoc 05:13, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
I agree that "evangelical" is not the right term. I think "Christian political foundation" is accurate based on what I have read. BarkingDoc 01:15, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Why would they want to have a "Day of Silence" when "silence is consent." It seem we would be agreeing with the oppression of LGBT. If you don't speak out, you are enabling it. 204.184.80.26 ( talk) 18:34, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
I don't understand how the word "oppression" is being used in the section heading "Opposition/oppression." I don't think the section deals with anyone being oppressed. Can you clarify? BarkingDoc 15:01, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
It is definetly tricky to get the right wording here, especially in the opposition section, because the ADF really IS a group which lobbies for the right of Christians to harass and intimidate gays--- which is to say, they believe students should be allowed to express anti-gay beliefs with the same aggresive vigor that students might be allowed to express anti-war beliefs. They also have a legitimate legal/free speech argument. It isn't accurate to play down their very strong anti-gay agenda, but it also isn't fair to over-stress that aspect. For my money, I think we have managed to strike an excellent tone of straightforward, non-judgemental information in the article as it exists right now. BarkingDoc 21:44, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
There was a tag at Alliance Defense Fund suggesting the "Day Of Truth" be merged there, so I went ahead and did it. I think that information makes a lot more sense in the context of the ADF's other activities, and I don't see any noteworthy reason for it to be here, at least not in any detail. The Day of Truth also has its own article. BarkingDoc 18:09, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
From the article:
I actually believe this is true, and I think we can leave it in for now, but can the contributor or someone find a source which would support it? There might be something on the Day Of Silence website.
I did have to remove the new "opposition" section-- I understand the intent, but anything like that really needs to have sources. This isn't the place for debate. BarkingDoc 21:11, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I think the source listed for how many people participated, along with the estimation should be removed. It provides no references to how the estimation is made. The validity of the claim is highly suspect based on the sites agenda. -- FreeThoughts ( talk) 09:05, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
GLSEN cites this info on their website although the wiki currently says something about students dying for whatever reason. Editing that! 38.124.250.3 ( talk) 20:45, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
The article IMO leaves it to the readers judgment if this day is a "LGTB-Action Only" or if it is meant to support anybody who is recipient/victim of bullying and harassment, regardless of whatever group/class/peer they belong to. The Goal would certainly have to be to end ALL bullying, or am I wrong? Are some people being left behind? - 80.135.159.224 ( talk) 13:51, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
I think I'm going to be adding a few sentences about Lawrence King under the history section. He's the middle schooler from Oxnard that was shot by another kid during class because of his sexuality. This year's Day Of Silence is going to be held in memory of him.
Also, I'm correcting the date. For some reason someone said the DOS is always on a Friday, this year it's actually a Tuesday and, I believe, last year was a Wednesday.
Teh darkcloud (
talk) 02:09, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Oh! Whoa. Nevermind. I'll change it back. This year it -is- a Friday. I have no idea what calendar I was looking at. Teh darkcloud ( talk) 07:02, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
There's absolutely no information in this article as to how (or even whether) the Day of Silence takes place outside the US. If it is mostly/entirely an American thing, then this should be mentioned in the lead. If it's more international, then some non-US examples should be given. 86.132.137.5 ( talk) 04:07, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
I've removed material that seemed to be more about explaining what's bad about being gay than explaining what the Day of Silence is, or even explaining who opposes it and why. More neutral and sourced information about the counter-protests would be useful, especially the observation of Day of Truth which some groups sponser. - FisherQueen ( talk · contribs) 16:29, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm wondering whether this article is as objective as it should be. While I am certainly not against the rights of LGBT people and believe that their voices should be heard just as loudly as straight people, the article neglects to mention some of the downsides to a day of silence. When I was in high school, the day of silence seemed impractical, since students are not allowed to verbally express their opinions and purposes. Also, a school-wide observance of this event often disrupts actual teaching and learning at schools by removing many students from the schools and prohibiting protesters from engaging in school activities. Also, "conservatives" are not the only opponents to this event, so I don't think that the last section should be titled "conservative criticism." There should definitely be a section that outlines these criticisms, which can are commonly found in media coverage of the day of silence events at public schools. See this Seattle Times article on a recent day of silence event to start with. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004373481_websilence25e.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.91.148.170 ( talk) 22:14, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
In the Opposition section, after the statement: Legally, schools cannot be penalized for refusing to observe the Day of Silence. I have previously placed this statement: However, students that choose to participate, even if their school does not acknowledge the event, are protected by the Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District supreme court case, which extended the First Amendment to the United States Constitution to students.
But people keep removing it and saying stuff about the ref. I said under the ref: Under United States common law, a supreme court decision becomes law ( Case law). Students are protected by the outcome of the Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District case. Another example of United States common law would be Roe v. Wade, which made abortion in the first trimester legal and protected by federal. This became law after the decision of the the case made by the judge. If you do not understand what common law is, WHICH IT THE LEGAL SYSTEM OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND 49 OF THE 50 STATES, the basic meaning is the outcome of a case , such as Roe v. Wade or Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District, becomes law based on the judges ruling. If you still do not understand how common law works or would like to know more about it please see the article. Another example of how the Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District case is used is to protect the rights of students who write for a student newspaper. [-- Cooljuno411 ( talk) 02:25, 30 April 2008 (UTC)]
The page says:
This is incorrect. This is not the logo. That is just a graphic on the page, like the "Remember Lawrence King" graphic. The logo is "Day of Silence" in red and grey letters with striped red underlining and the r in a circle registration mark ®. I was going to remove the graphic but that might have been too drastic, so I'm bringing it to people's attention here. And that caption is poorly worded anyway. -- LegitimateAndEvenCompelling ( talk) 05:02, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Some reactions in the discussion here and from the Christian Rights treat the day as if it was about silencing the opposition. But the day is clearly about being silent in protest. No section of the article should pretend otherwise (like the quasi-critcism section "Opposition" does). -- 84.153.102.77 ( talk) 19:14, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
On 11:47, 9 March 2011 66.235.228.29 posted in the article:
when is 2011's Day of silence ?
According to http://dayofsilence.org/ it will be on April 15, 2011. -- Limulus ( talk) 18:31, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
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I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Day of Silence's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "Newsweek":
{{
cite web}}
: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher=
(
help){{
cite web}}
: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher=
(
help)I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 19:13, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
I clicked on the Wikipedia link to find out what the Day of Silence is, and I feel like the article didn't answer my question at all. It's an "annual day of action", but what action? What do you actually DO on the Day of Silence? Not talk at all? Just not talk outside of class? Or is the name a metaphor and silence is actually not involved? (And what's the background behind deciding that silence, metaphorical or otherwise, is a good way to deal with LGBT bullying issues? I just feel like I'm missing something here.)
If someone who knows the answers to these questions could add them to the article, I think that would be a big improvement.
2602:306:3280:5870:E01A:ED13:A7D2:2713 ( talk) 18:53, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
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Because the date started out being the 2nd Friday of April but the last 4 out of 5 times the org that decides the date has instead simply picked a day, we now have more exceptions than dates that fit the rule even if you go back 7 years total (inclusive). I just updated to add this year (yet another date that doesn't fit the 2nd Friday rule) and it took me a bit to understand the formatting and how to add the new date and it all felt really awkward (whether you are reading or editing). Perhaps something like this would work better: "Up until 2019 the date was primarily held on the 2nd Friday of April (expect 2019 when... blah), however since 2020 the day has simply been designated year by year. Below are the dates for the Day of Silence since 2020:" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmckey ( talk • contribs) 13:48, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
Day of Silence received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
Please place new discussions at the bottom of the talk page. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Day of Silence article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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I removed the information on MSM/Gay men and HIV because it is not relevant to Day of Silence, though it may be relevant to the MSM/Gay male community as a whole. The section on citing of statistics in relation to NDOS is certainly sufficient
I understand that the Day of Silence is April 13th this year (2005). Is it April 13th in every year? How is the date determined? -- Creidieki 03:34, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I think there should be a criticism section. And no, I'm not an anti-queer christian or anything, I'm a queer anarchist with many gay and bi friends and have taken part in DOS 2 or 3 times. I personally feel it is somewhat ineffective. I think a Day of Shouting would be much better. Or any day to actually give our voices a chance to shine. The problem is, people try to ask what your doing, and you can't really tell them b/c all you have is a little card and it is really hard to truly convince anyone of anything if you can't articulate your position. Another idea, would be to have an entire week of queer activism including a DOS along with other more vocal and less-symbolic protests at the same time. On a campus with lenient rules rules regarding shows of affection, have a gay makeout session or something on the quad. Confronting heterosexist student organizations, speakers, campaigns for gender-neutral bathrooms etc. Just my two cents. But anyway, I don't just want to put my own personal rant into the article, so if there are any good sources of similar (or other criticisms), a critique section to the article would be good.
I am neutral on the issue of whether there "should" be a criticisms section, however, there should only be one if there is information to include in it. I took some time to look for references regarding the criticisms offered in the section, or to find any others, and I have not been able to find any discussion or instance of those opinions. Therefore I am removing the following two paragraphs until such time as a citation can be included:
Without citations these paragraphs contain no information, only opinion, and therefore I think they don't warrant inclusion even with the [citation needed] note.
Because there is no available criticism, I am changing the heading to the more accurate term "opposition" and rewriting the "Day Of Truth" paragraph to indicate accurately that it is a Christian evangelical group opposed to homosexuality; the reference comes from the organization's own web page.
Since the 2006 date is approaching this page is likely to get a lot of visits in the next couple of weeks, so it is more important than ever to have a high standard of accuracy and neutral information. BarkingDoc 05:13, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
I agree that "evangelical" is not the right term. I think "Christian political foundation" is accurate based on what I have read. BarkingDoc 01:15, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Why would they want to have a "Day of Silence" when "silence is consent." It seem we would be agreeing with the oppression of LGBT. If you don't speak out, you are enabling it. 204.184.80.26 ( talk) 18:34, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
I don't understand how the word "oppression" is being used in the section heading "Opposition/oppression." I don't think the section deals with anyone being oppressed. Can you clarify? BarkingDoc 15:01, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
It is definetly tricky to get the right wording here, especially in the opposition section, because the ADF really IS a group which lobbies for the right of Christians to harass and intimidate gays--- which is to say, they believe students should be allowed to express anti-gay beliefs with the same aggresive vigor that students might be allowed to express anti-war beliefs. They also have a legitimate legal/free speech argument. It isn't accurate to play down their very strong anti-gay agenda, but it also isn't fair to over-stress that aspect. For my money, I think we have managed to strike an excellent tone of straightforward, non-judgemental information in the article as it exists right now. BarkingDoc 21:44, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
There was a tag at Alliance Defense Fund suggesting the "Day Of Truth" be merged there, so I went ahead and did it. I think that information makes a lot more sense in the context of the ADF's other activities, and I don't see any noteworthy reason for it to be here, at least not in any detail. The Day of Truth also has its own article. BarkingDoc 18:09, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
From the article:
I actually believe this is true, and I think we can leave it in for now, but can the contributor or someone find a source which would support it? There might be something on the Day Of Silence website.
I did have to remove the new "opposition" section-- I understand the intent, but anything like that really needs to have sources. This isn't the place for debate. BarkingDoc 21:11, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I think the source listed for how many people participated, along with the estimation should be removed. It provides no references to how the estimation is made. The validity of the claim is highly suspect based on the sites agenda. -- FreeThoughts ( talk) 09:05, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
GLSEN cites this info on their website although the wiki currently says something about students dying for whatever reason. Editing that! 38.124.250.3 ( talk) 20:45, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
The article IMO leaves it to the readers judgment if this day is a "LGTB-Action Only" or if it is meant to support anybody who is recipient/victim of bullying and harassment, regardless of whatever group/class/peer they belong to. The Goal would certainly have to be to end ALL bullying, or am I wrong? Are some people being left behind? - 80.135.159.224 ( talk) 13:51, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
I think I'm going to be adding a few sentences about Lawrence King under the history section. He's the middle schooler from Oxnard that was shot by another kid during class because of his sexuality. This year's Day Of Silence is going to be held in memory of him.
Also, I'm correcting the date. For some reason someone said the DOS is always on a Friday, this year it's actually a Tuesday and, I believe, last year was a Wednesday.
Teh darkcloud (
talk) 02:09, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Oh! Whoa. Nevermind. I'll change it back. This year it -is- a Friday. I have no idea what calendar I was looking at. Teh darkcloud ( talk) 07:02, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
There's absolutely no information in this article as to how (or even whether) the Day of Silence takes place outside the US. If it is mostly/entirely an American thing, then this should be mentioned in the lead. If it's more international, then some non-US examples should be given. 86.132.137.5 ( talk) 04:07, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
I've removed material that seemed to be more about explaining what's bad about being gay than explaining what the Day of Silence is, or even explaining who opposes it and why. More neutral and sourced information about the counter-protests would be useful, especially the observation of Day of Truth which some groups sponser. - FisherQueen ( talk · contribs) 16:29, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm wondering whether this article is as objective as it should be. While I am certainly not against the rights of LGBT people and believe that their voices should be heard just as loudly as straight people, the article neglects to mention some of the downsides to a day of silence. When I was in high school, the day of silence seemed impractical, since students are not allowed to verbally express their opinions and purposes. Also, a school-wide observance of this event often disrupts actual teaching and learning at schools by removing many students from the schools and prohibiting protesters from engaging in school activities. Also, "conservatives" are not the only opponents to this event, so I don't think that the last section should be titled "conservative criticism." There should definitely be a section that outlines these criticisms, which can are commonly found in media coverage of the day of silence events at public schools. See this Seattle Times article on a recent day of silence event to start with. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004373481_websilence25e.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.91.148.170 ( talk) 22:14, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
In the Opposition section, after the statement: Legally, schools cannot be penalized for refusing to observe the Day of Silence. I have previously placed this statement: However, students that choose to participate, even if their school does not acknowledge the event, are protected by the Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District supreme court case, which extended the First Amendment to the United States Constitution to students.
But people keep removing it and saying stuff about the ref. I said under the ref: Under United States common law, a supreme court decision becomes law ( Case law). Students are protected by the outcome of the Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District case. Another example of United States common law would be Roe v. Wade, which made abortion in the first trimester legal and protected by federal. This became law after the decision of the the case made by the judge. If you do not understand what common law is, WHICH IT THE LEGAL SYSTEM OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND 49 OF THE 50 STATES, the basic meaning is the outcome of a case , such as Roe v. Wade or Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District, becomes law based on the judges ruling. If you still do not understand how common law works or would like to know more about it please see the article. Another example of how the Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District case is used is to protect the rights of students who write for a student newspaper. [-- Cooljuno411 ( talk) 02:25, 30 April 2008 (UTC)]
The page says:
This is incorrect. This is not the logo. That is just a graphic on the page, like the "Remember Lawrence King" graphic. The logo is "Day of Silence" in red and grey letters with striped red underlining and the r in a circle registration mark ®. I was going to remove the graphic but that might have been too drastic, so I'm bringing it to people's attention here. And that caption is poorly worded anyway. -- LegitimateAndEvenCompelling ( talk) 05:02, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Some reactions in the discussion here and from the Christian Rights treat the day as if it was about silencing the opposition. But the day is clearly about being silent in protest. No section of the article should pretend otherwise (like the quasi-critcism section "Opposition" does). -- 84.153.102.77 ( talk) 19:14, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
On 11:47, 9 March 2011 66.235.228.29 posted in the article:
when is 2011's Day of silence ?
According to http://dayofsilence.org/ it will be on April 15, 2011. -- Limulus ( talk) 18:31, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
An image used in this article,
File:Straight Pride T-shirt.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at
Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations
Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Straight Pride T-shirt.jpg) This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 15:28, 8 March 2012 (UTC) |
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Day of Silence's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "Newsweek":
{{
cite web}}
: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher=
(
help){{
cite web}}
: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher=
(
help)I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 19:13, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
I clicked on the Wikipedia link to find out what the Day of Silence is, and I feel like the article didn't answer my question at all. It's an "annual day of action", but what action? What do you actually DO on the Day of Silence? Not talk at all? Just not talk outside of class? Or is the name a metaphor and silence is actually not involved? (And what's the background behind deciding that silence, metaphorical or otherwise, is a good way to deal with LGBT bullying issues? I just feel like I'm missing something here.)
If someone who knows the answers to these questions could add them to the article, I think that would be a big improvement.
2602:306:3280:5870:E01A:ED13:A7D2:2713 ( talk) 18:53, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 00:43, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
Because the date started out being the 2nd Friday of April but the last 4 out of 5 times the org that decides the date has instead simply picked a day, we now have more exceptions than dates that fit the rule even if you go back 7 years total (inclusive). I just updated to add this year (yet another date that doesn't fit the 2nd Friday rule) and it took me a bit to understand the formatting and how to add the new date and it all felt really awkward (whether you are reading or editing). Perhaps something like this would work better: "Up until 2019 the date was primarily held on the 2nd Friday of April (expect 2019 when... blah), however since 2020 the day has simply been designated year by year. Below are the dates for the Day of Silence since 2020:" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmckey ( talk • contribs) 13:48, 19 April 2022 (UTC)