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This article needs rewriting. It lectures about the rights and wrongs of what people did. It is factually wrong (e.g. the date was October 7, not October 15), and it's full of original research. The title is wrong (should be Day of Revenge). Plenty of material can be found by searching google in English and in Italian. -- Stfg ( talk) 14:59, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
There is not a single source on this page that even hints that there was a "Libyan holiday celebrating the expulsion of Jews and Italians from Libyan soil in 1970." This appears to be a complete fabrication. Mcdruid ( talk) 05:09, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
@ Number 57: you appear to have misread the sources, not checked their validity, and ignored my detailed edit comment. You have falsely written that 37,000 Jews were expelled in 1970, when we have much higher quality sources stating that there were only 200 left Jews in the country in 1969. [1] [2] On another page you wrote "...was not one I came up with; I simply reverted..." but Wikipedia doesn't work like that. The WP:ONUS is on you if you want to re-add information, not the inexperienced editor who added all this nonsense a decade ago without any sources. Onceinawhile ( talk) 15:20, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
The Libyan government, like the Tripoli and Benghazi news papers, tried to minimize the seriousness of the riots… Though the Libyan government had good intentions, it was unable to restore security or even enable funerals to be held for the victims. It is not surprising, then, that for the vast majority of Jews the only possible solution seemed to be to leave Libya and seek refuge in a safe country… The first official step was taken by Lillo Arbib on June 17. He sent a message to Prime Minister Hussein Mazegh asking him "to allow Jews so desiring to leave the country for a time, until tempers cool and the Libyan population understands the position of Libyan Jews, who have always been and will continue to be loyal to the State, in full harmony and peaceful coexistence with the Arab citizens at all times." The government quickly agreed: the emigration office started work on June 20 preparing the documents necessary for departure. The exodus took a little more than a month. By September there were just over 100 Jews left in Libya, all of whom were in Tripoli except 2 in Benghazi. The vast majority—just over 4,100—went to Italy.
A few months after the military coup, there were only about a hundred left, mostly old people without relatives. The number was destined to diminish even more during the next few years, reaching less than forty in 1972 and sixteen in 1977. [Footnote: By 1982 there were only about ten Jews left, including one family (Raffaello Fellah, personal communication)]
The last step in the process of practical elimination of the Jews from Libya was taken by Qadhdhafi on July 21, 1970. On that day the RCC passed three laws marking a radical turning point in Libyan history. In the first law the RCC, "in the firm conviction of the Lib yan people that the time has come to recover the wealth of its sons and ancestors usurped during the despotic Italian government, which oppressed the country in a dark period of its glorious history, when murder, dispersion, and desecration constituted the only basis on which the Italian colonizers stole the people's wealth and controlled its resources," stipulated "notwithstanding the fact that the State in stead of the people is requesting compensation for damages suffered during the Italian occupation . . . restitution to the people of all im movable assets of any sort and of movable assets attached to them owned by Italian citizens." The second law prohibited (except with special approval of the council of ministers) the issuing of further "licenses, permits, or authorizations to Italians to practice com merce, industry, any trade or craft, or any other activity or work" even by renewing those already in force.44These two laws were put into force in record time, by October of the same year.4' Through them, all Italians living in Libya were deprived without compensa tion of all their assets and expelled from Libya, even if they had been living there for decades or had been bom there. A third law of the same date was intended to close the books on the Jews. All their funds and properties already "under sequestration" (and those of fourteen Arabs and Catholics) were subject to "restitution to the people." What made the measure against the Jews—whatever their citizenship—different from those against Italians was the absence of a "historical" preamble.
Italians were subject to expropriation without compensation with the explicit claim that Libya should get compensation from Italy. The Jews suffered expropriation but were promised compensation. The official explanation lies in the "historical" preamble to the measure against Italians which, significantly, does not exist in the one against Jews. On a "historical" plane then, the RCC did not consider the Libyan Jews to be identified with colonialism. It recognized in prac tice that they were a component of Libyan reality prior to coloniza tion and independent of it. The reference to the law of March 21, 1961, established a clear connection, not only juridical but also po litical, between the measure itself and the Israel boycott, thus with the Arab-Israeli conflict. Such a connection is doubly significant. It protected the measure from any accusation of racism or anti- Semitism, clarifying the meaning of the letter which el-Huni had sent two months before to the Libyan Jews who had taken refuge in Italy and preparing the ground for the declaration by which, three years later, Qadhdhafi "opened the doors" of Libya to Libyan Jews and Jews from other Arab countries who had emigrated to Israel.
The removal of content from this page is wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Holy Joseph ( talk • contribs) 06:31, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
Some sources also claim that the 1948-67 departure of Libyan Jews was also celebrated.If you can think of another word than “departure” (which seems too soft) that would be good, but we know for sure they were not expelled. “Evacuated” would be accurate, and suggestive of urgency / danger.
@ Mschiffler: pinging here as my edit comment ping didn’t work. A disagreement has taken place between editors here, but I cannot seem to convince anyone to spend the time required to read the sources. Do you have time to review this talk page and read the sources to help ensure we have a stable version of this article? Onceinawhile ( talk) 16:22, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
References
Number 57 and חוקרת, I have searched everywhere I can think of for WP:SIGCOV of this "Day of Revenge", but cannot find it. In other words, I believe there is not a single source which covers this topic in any detail.
I have updated Jewish exodus from the Muslim world#Libya with the detailed source above. If you would like a detailed article on the exodus of the Jews from Libya, I would support the creation of a new article focusing on that.
I also think an article on the expulsion of the Italian community from Libya would be worthwhile. We can either repurpose this one, or create a new one from scratch.
I then propose to nominate this article for deletion, given that it does not meet WP:GNG. I will pause before actioning this to give you time to find one or more detailed sources. Onceinawhile ( talk) 09:59, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
| A member of the Guild of Copy Editors, Stfg, reviewed a version of this article for copy editing on 23 August 2012. However, a major copy edit was inappropriate at that time because of the issues specified below, or the other tags now found on this article. Once these issues have been addressed, and any related tags have been cleared, please tag the article once again for {{ copyedit}}. The Guild welcomes all editors with a good grasp of English. Visit our project page if you are interested in joining! |
This article needs rewriting. It lectures about the rights and wrongs of what people did. It is factually wrong (e.g. the date was October 7, not October 15), and it's full of original research. The title is wrong (should be Day of Revenge). Plenty of material can be found by searching google in English and in Italian. -- Stfg ( talk) 14:59, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
There is not a single source on this page that even hints that there was a "Libyan holiday celebrating the expulsion of Jews and Italians from Libyan soil in 1970." This appears to be a complete fabrication. Mcdruid ( talk) 05:09, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
@ Number 57: you appear to have misread the sources, not checked their validity, and ignored my detailed edit comment. You have falsely written that 37,000 Jews were expelled in 1970, when we have much higher quality sources stating that there were only 200 left Jews in the country in 1969. [1] [2] On another page you wrote "...was not one I came up with; I simply reverted..." but Wikipedia doesn't work like that. The WP:ONUS is on you if you want to re-add information, not the inexperienced editor who added all this nonsense a decade ago without any sources. Onceinawhile ( talk) 15:20, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
The Libyan government, like the Tripoli and Benghazi news papers, tried to minimize the seriousness of the riots… Though the Libyan government had good intentions, it was unable to restore security or even enable funerals to be held for the victims. It is not surprising, then, that for the vast majority of Jews the only possible solution seemed to be to leave Libya and seek refuge in a safe country… The first official step was taken by Lillo Arbib on June 17. He sent a message to Prime Minister Hussein Mazegh asking him "to allow Jews so desiring to leave the country for a time, until tempers cool and the Libyan population understands the position of Libyan Jews, who have always been and will continue to be loyal to the State, in full harmony and peaceful coexistence with the Arab citizens at all times." The government quickly agreed: the emigration office started work on June 20 preparing the documents necessary for departure. The exodus took a little more than a month. By September there were just over 100 Jews left in Libya, all of whom were in Tripoli except 2 in Benghazi. The vast majority—just over 4,100—went to Italy.
A few months after the military coup, there were only about a hundred left, mostly old people without relatives. The number was destined to diminish even more during the next few years, reaching less than forty in 1972 and sixteen in 1977. [Footnote: By 1982 there were only about ten Jews left, including one family (Raffaello Fellah, personal communication)]
The last step in the process of practical elimination of the Jews from Libya was taken by Qadhdhafi on July 21, 1970. On that day the RCC passed three laws marking a radical turning point in Libyan history. In the first law the RCC, "in the firm conviction of the Lib yan people that the time has come to recover the wealth of its sons and ancestors usurped during the despotic Italian government, which oppressed the country in a dark period of its glorious history, when murder, dispersion, and desecration constituted the only basis on which the Italian colonizers stole the people's wealth and controlled its resources," stipulated "notwithstanding the fact that the State in stead of the people is requesting compensation for damages suffered during the Italian occupation . . . restitution to the people of all im movable assets of any sort and of movable assets attached to them owned by Italian citizens." The second law prohibited (except with special approval of the council of ministers) the issuing of further "licenses, permits, or authorizations to Italians to practice com merce, industry, any trade or craft, or any other activity or work" even by renewing those already in force.44These two laws were put into force in record time, by October of the same year.4' Through them, all Italians living in Libya were deprived without compensa tion of all their assets and expelled from Libya, even if they had been living there for decades or had been bom there. A third law of the same date was intended to close the books on the Jews. All their funds and properties already "under sequestration" (and those of fourteen Arabs and Catholics) were subject to "restitution to the people." What made the measure against the Jews—whatever their citizenship—different from those against Italians was the absence of a "historical" preamble.
Italians were subject to expropriation without compensation with the explicit claim that Libya should get compensation from Italy. The Jews suffered expropriation but were promised compensation. The official explanation lies in the "historical" preamble to the measure against Italians which, significantly, does not exist in the one against Jews. On a "historical" plane then, the RCC did not consider the Libyan Jews to be identified with colonialism. It recognized in prac tice that they were a component of Libyan reality prior to coloniza tion and independent of it. The reference to the law of March 21, 1961, established a clear connection, not only juridical but also po litical, between the measure itself and the Israel boycott, thus with the Arab-Israeli conflict. Such a connection is doubly significant. It protected the measure from any accusation of racism or anti- Semitism, clarifying the meaning of the letter which el-Huni had sent two months before to the Libyan Jews who had taken refuge in Italy and preparing the ground for the declaration by which, three years later, Qadhdhafi "opened the doors" of Libya to Libyan Jews and Jews from other Arab countries who had emigrated to Israel.
The removal of content from this page is wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Holy Joseph ( talk • contribs) 06:31, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
Some sources also claim that the 1948-67 departure of Libyan Jews was also celebrated.If you can think of another word than “departure” (which seems too soft) that would be good, but we know for sure they were not expelled. “Evacuated” would be accurate, and suggestive of urgency / danger.
@ Mschiffler: pinging here as my edit comment ping didn’t work. A disagreement has taken place between editors here, but I cannot seem to convince anyone to spend the time required to read the sources. Do you have time to review this talk page and read the sources to help ensure we have a stable version of this article? Onceinawhile ( talk) 16:22, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
References
Number 57 and חוקרת, I have searched everywhere I can think of for WP:SIGCOV of this "Day of Revenge", but cannot find it. In other words, I believe there is not a single source which covers this topic in any detail.
I have updated Jewish exodus from the Muslim world#Libya with the detailed source above. If you would like a detailed article on the exodus of the Jews from Libya, I would support the creation of a new article focusing on that.
I also think an article on the expulsion of the Italian community from Libya would be worthwhile. We can either repurpose this one, or create a new one from scratch.
I then propose to nominate this article for deletion, given that it does not meet WP:GNG. I will pause before actioning this to give you time to find one or more detailed sources. Onceinawhile ( talk) 09:59, 29 July 2022 (UTC)