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I've reverted the recent changes to the introduction paragraph to the previous agreed content. No new information has been presented to warrant the change. The value of the sale is mentioned in the dialog section. 109.169.67.207 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:08, 22 June 2017 (UTC) .
Venda was a different company to MAID/Dialog. Venda was sold in 2014 and Dialog was sold in 2000. They are different successful businesses that we created by Mr Wagner and sold.
User: Techtrek has posted a picture of the subject [1], declaring it as their own work. Does this not suggest an undeclared interest in the subject? PR representative perhaps? 5.226.137.179 ( talk) 10:58, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
Also, this is the same picture used on the subject's blog, https://www.dan-wagner.com/. 5.226.137.179 ( talk) 14:48, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
I added a section to Powa relating to the investment from Wellington. Not sure if it belongs on this page or Powa. Given that there's a fairly large section dedicated to the original investment, seems fair that this be alongside it.
There is widespread coverage of a $2bn litigation beteeen shareholders in Powa and Wellington Management and Ben White, a former director. Either this is added or the page should remain silent but it cannot out forward comments from Wellington whilst ignoring the other perspective from shareholders and management.
I also removed the mention of the venda sale to oracle. This has been discussed at length above. As the subject wasn't involved in the sale, shouldn't be on his page.
The subject was the chairman, founder and largest shareholder in Venda at the time of the sale to Oracle so very much relevant to his profile.
As a side note, I noticed the fresh edits (and attempted promotional language which has been removed by another editor) coincides with the subject appearing in the news recently, http://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3193955. 5.226.137.179 ( talk) 11:26, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
The intro is extremely relavant to the subject given it is a new launch of a business that appears to be getting widespread coverage and momentum.
I'm trying to encourage the use of the talk page to avert another edit war and strongly encourage other editors to engage here before making changes. 5.226.137.179 ( talk) 11:26, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
Agree
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Unfortunately, another edit war has broken out on the article, and there is little attempt to resolve this with other editors on this page. 5.226.137.179 ( talk) 10:29, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
This user 5.226.137.179 (also known as Ol King Col) has been vandalising this page since he was fired by Dan Wagner in 2014. His vendetta is relentless as he is still out of work (unsurprisingly - because no one wants to employ a deranged fool). Please review his cynical edits designed to discredit Mr Wagner and his achievements. Notice the disproportionate text on Powa and the deletions of text on Venda - the European market leader in eCommerce founded by Mr Wagner and sold to NetSuite now owned by Oracle — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.120.225.26 ( talk • contribs) 12:46, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
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Please see above. 5.226.137.179 ( talk) 12:57, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
Following on from User:Huon's suggestion to add structure around the discussed points:
The sale figure of Dialog has been quoted as being worth $500m but the FT state it was $275m, https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2016/03/23/2157473/dont-call-it-another-dan-wagner-comeback/?mhq5j=e2. Please can the article be updated to reflect this. Also, it wasn't MAID sold to Thomson Corporation, it was Dialog, formerly know as MAID (renamed after the acquisition), http://newsbreaks.infotoday.com/NewsBreaks/MAID-Moves-Closer-to-DIALOG-Purchase-18023.asp 5.226.137.179 ( talk) 08:32, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
The sources used for the MAID/Dialog sale in the intro aren't well sources. Ref 4, https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/mar/14/portraits-dotcom-entrepreneurs-bubble-burst, makes a passing mention of the sale, absent of date and price. Ref 3, http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/entrepreneurs/famous-entrepreneurs/he-floated-his-first-company-for-120m-aged-31-now-powa-ceo-dan-wagner-says-the-uk-doesnt-get-tech/6526.article, contradicts the ft article above. FT vs 'London Loves Business' 5.226.137.179 ( talk) 08:52, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
The Venda section is misleading. Previous edits have tried to conflate the sale to Netsuite with Oracle's purchase of Netsuite 2 years later. We have two choices, follow the lead of User: SmartSE (see January edits & discussions) and exclude the sale altogether as there is no mention of the subject in the sales proceedings according to sourced articles (the subject was not CEO at the time of the sale), or include it, removing reference to Oracle as it's irrelevant for the reasons stated above. If the consensus is to keep the sale, in keeping with the rest of the article and references to sales, include the price as $50.5m quoted http://www.crn.com/news/cloud/300073512/netsuite-details-50-5m-deal-for-venda-in-q2-results.htm, https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2016/03/23/2157473/dont-call-it-another-dan-wagner-comeback/?mhq5j=e2 & the Venda page.
I propose the removal of "the founder of British eCommerce", as it's subjective language and has been flagged by another editor as WP:PEACOCK.
There are numerous articles that say the subject is the 'founder of British eCommerce' and Taiwan News - a highly respected daily newspaper in Taiwan was just one of many that referred to the subject in this way. see http://m.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/2017/06/21/498936/UK-entrepreneur.htm and here 新的移動電子商務技術 進入台灣市場-政治-HiNet新聞 http://times.hinet.net/mobile/news/20258229 and here 大成報 Great News - 政治經濟 http://www.twgreatnews.com/home/news_pagein.php?iType=1008&n_id=140970 and here PChome 新聞 http://news.m.pchome.com.tw/politics/twpowernews/20170621/index-14980526951033147001.html and here 新的移動電子商務技術進入台灣市場 蕃新聞 http://n.yam.com/Article/20170621472035/%E6%96%B0%E7%9A%84%E7%A7%BB%E5%8B%95%E9%9B%BB%E5%AD%90%E5%95%86%E5%8B%99%E6%8A%80%E8%A1%93%E9%80%B2%E5%85%A5%E5%8F%B0%E7%81%A3%E5%B8%82%E5%A0%B4 and here 勁報 Power News - 政治經濟 http://www.twpowernews.com/home/news_pagein.php?iType=1008&n_id=124192. In addition, the subject is widely regarded as having been a pioneer in online information - requiring the development of eCommerce systems in 1984 - a decade before Amazon was founded. The FT article states as much here http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8777fd1e-1915-11e2-af4e-00144feabdc0.html#axzz35JsfdYgS and the Observer said the same thing here https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/mar/14/portraits-dotcom-entrepreneurs-bubble-burst. There are many other references to the subject's influence on eCommerce both in the UK and globally. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.233.78.117 ( talk) 20:21, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
What you say about the references being published around the same time is not of concern. As far as they are all reliable references on wikipedia standards, they are all admissible. If a reference clearly states that he is the founder of British e-commerce, then those references' own credibility can be used to mention this as a fact. In anycase, we can at minimum attribute the fact to those references - like "He is regarded as the founder of the British e-commerce by [references/expert names here]". That would be more neutral - **if** you are able to negate the point with any other references. If you arnt able to negate them, then this should stay in as a fact rather than attributed statement. These statements are completely according to wikipedia's WP:NPOV policy. You can not violate these policies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.102.25.125 ( talk) 08:52, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
92.233.78.117 ( talk) 20:37, 5 July 2017 (UTC) You say that the references are copies of each other from different publications, that happens a lot in news world. You might have noticed that main mainstream news sites publish same stories - this happens often when it is supplied by agencies like Agence France-Presse. Maybe you can call them one source but you can not call them no source and the fact that all those different news sites have republished the material, add to its credibility. Ironically, what you have to present in counter argument is twitter / social media which is not acceptable by wikipedia as reliable source. I would suggest that you keep your speculation, social media following and WP:OR based personal commentary out of this debate so that we can discuss in line with wiki policies. WP:OR will be ignored and reverted on wikipedia articles.
Techtrek ( talk) 20:38, 5 July 2017 (UTC) I am initiating this discussion to mutually work it out with the editors disputing the intro and other details of this topic on wikipedia. I suggest that we stop discussing editors and throwing around accusations and instead focus on content, at the same time, we should completely stop the edit war and editing /reverting further until consensus is gained here for making any edits according to wikipedia rules.
Ol King Col, if you want to change the intro, explain why and what you need to add.
If you think that you are unable to gain consensus on the matter, I will invite neutral editors using a WP:RFC to get a clear consensus but - first try to explain based on wikipedia policies why you want to remove this. This goes for all edits to be made and not intro. Let us stop edit war and discuss civilly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Techtrek ( talk • contribs) 20:33, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution. Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you! 5.226.137.179 ( talk) 09:44, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
Previously, User:Huon stated: ″That Wagner has said he's going to sue and that he was conspired against might be worth a note in the body of the article; it's not important enough to make up half the lead. See WP:UNDUE. Besides, Wikipedia is not a platform for Mr Wagner's views. When he has sued things certainly are worth mentioning (though I expect it's rather difficult to sue people for not throwing good money after bad); right now this is all hot air and evidence-less allegations.″
Although I added this to the article, on reflection and taking into account Use:Huon previous feedback, there has been no progress on the matter, at least as reported by the press. Have the court proceedings started? It hasn't been reported, thererfore it should be removed.
The section relating the the claim against the subject by Ben White should remain as this article, https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2016/06/07/2165045/ex-powa-director-battles-dan-wagner-over-unpaid-loan/?mhq5j=e2, claims the case has been issued at the court.
5.226.137.179 ( talk) 12:44, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
The subject has brought proceedings in the high court of justice in London on Monday May 12 to appoint KPMG to commence proceedings against Wellington, Ben White and others. Simultaneously, two hedge funds, Aquila and Rovio, both investors in Powa, petitioned the Manchester court to appoint Duff and Phelps to commence proceedings against Wellington and Ben White. Two separate petitions to bring actions against Wellington and Ben White. A subsequent hearing in the Manchester court on May 25th was adjourned and a new date in Manchester has been set for August 3 2017 to discuss the merits of either KPMG or Duff and Phelps. All in court records and all pointing to a genuine dispute about the demise of Powa. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.233.78.117 ( talk) 20:27, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
92.233.78.117 ( talk) 20:47, 5 July 2017 (UTC) I have no relation to the subject and knowing details that are not in the news for every one to read only implies that I have researched more than a quick google search. I'm glad that you are impressed by my knowledge about the topic but repeatedly accusing another editor of something they've denied is taken as a personal attack and is a blockable offense on wikipedia. I could similarly say that you are related to some one opposing the subject for the amends you are making and that would hold the same credibility as what you say - so let's avoid that all together and discuss the issue itself. The court listings are publicly available and I am an interested party following the events of the potential litigation.
There are seven questions to consider here, each has its own subsection below:
Please refer to the above sections for positions taken by editors participating on this page. 94.193.159.223 ( talk) 09:49, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
-- 185.69.145.158 ( talk) 11:45, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
( Summoned by bot)IP, is your double !vote just an example or the reasons for and against? Thanks, L3X1 (distænt write) )evidence( 16:51, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
Regarding
Further to the comprehensive re-write User:Scope creep has undertaken can I suggest that the intro is amended. It has previously been discussed, at length, on here that the inclusion of the phrase "has been called 'the founder of British eCommerce'" is pure puffery and comes from PR press release as outlined above, so should be removed. It was also discussed Talk:Dan_Wagner#Should_the_statement_.27who_has_been_called_.27the_founder_of_British_eCommerce.27_be_removed_from_the_intro.3F where the votes overwhelmingly agreed to remove.
Also, the photo has been discussed on here previously, as per above it was posted by a user who has now been banned for sock-puppetry as the account was being used to puff up the subject and so should now be removed, as well as that copyright ownership has not been proven. Ol king col ( talk) 12:02, 07 August 2017 (UTC)
Looking at the picture you guys are talking about, it says that "An email has been received at OTRS concerning this file, and can be read here by users with an OTRS account." It appears that the copy right permissions are being dealt with by wikipedia's OTRS team. If some one of the editors are emailing wikipedia team to donate the image using eligible copyrights, then it is wikipedia's benefit to let the OTRS team handle it. That said, I will also like to be a part of these editing efforts to make this article more neutral. It seems to be an interesting read.
95.210.221.6 ( talk) 07:41, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
I did comprehensive search of the phrase, and could find no mention of it, outside that one paper, and is not sufficient to establish notability. It is completely subjective and will not be included unless notability is established. scope_creep ( talk) 14:04, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
I have been reading business news, ecommerce and industry publications for decades and following technology professionals and entrepreneurs such as Dan Wagner since he launched his business in france in 1986 and I think he has been widely known here as an innovator in ecommerce. I have also seen numerous sources that call him the 'founder of the british ecommerce'. The fact that Dan Wagner created the first digital commerce platform to sell information in 1984 is in itself proof of this fact. The worldwide web wasn't even proposed until 1989 and so this was five years before the internet as we know it came in to being, as a result many of these reference sources would be offline and this would be a bias towards online sources. As far as I know, wikipedia policies dictate neutrality and sticking to online only material would totally be against the website's own policies. I recommend that offline news and references be considered for this purpose. Many french articles appeared in the eighties about him being a pioneer in e-commerce but these were before digital archives become widely used. For example, according to The Observer, "... one of the first people to realise the benefits of packaging electronic information and data for scientists, librarians and other specialists." There are also the numerous Chinese articles available for this fact. In 1997, for example, Dan Wagner did a major deal in Japan with Fujitsu where U.K. Prime minister Tony Blair sent his Trade and industry Secretary to participate in the announcements and at the time many Japanese newspapers called Dan Wagner the Pioneer of ecommerce and the 'UKs Bill Gates'. Therefore, I think this is not any kind of puffery in the article and only a fact. I am all for being neutral in wikipedia articles but unbecoming of wikipedia by trimming down facts is not good.
95.210.221.6 ( talk) 07:36, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
Reading the article again, the intro line says "he has also been called 'the founder of British eCommerce'". This is not even being stated as a fact of facts. It is only being mentioned, as per references, that credible sources credit him with that. I think this is a fair statement to make as accorded by /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources#Context_matters
95.210.221.6 ( talk) 07:48, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
Hi Melcous, why are you not satisfied with the five Chinese sources from China and Taiwan that appeared only recently and stated that Dan Wagner is the founder of British e-commerce? Surely that is sufficient according to wiki policies. You only need one reputable source and Taiwan news is one such credible source ( http://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3193955) as are at least two of the others that said the same thing.
95.210.221.6 ( talk) 08:29, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
I dont think I am the only editor on any side. After reading talk page history of this article, it is clear to me that two parties (in favour and against), including Ol King Col and Techtrek, have been fighting it out on this biography to amend different kind of edits. I dont care what each of them want to include or exclude but thanks for pointing out that this topic is a bit of controversial which lead me to read the previous history in more detail. I agree with working using consensus and I suggest that the format of wikipedia debate is followed.
95.210.221.6 ( talk) 11:32, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.210.221.6 ( talk) 11:30, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
No, I have not edited this article before. Have you?
85.255.233.221 ( talk) 12:22, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
Do you have any idea how many people use vodafone! If all of them editing in the topic would be treated like this if they differ with your opinion, that is bad faith. It is an offense to assume bad faith against editors on wikipedia and I suggest you stick to discussing the topic and not me or other IPs as you are spoiling the environment of discussion on this talk page. I am not even a vodafone customer, my mobile provider is SFR in France. I don't think Vodafone even operate here (but I cannot confess to knowing how the mobile operators manage IP ranges). In any event, it is visible that IPs on each side of the edit wars were blocked.
95.210.221.6 ( talk) 16:19, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
According to /info/en/?search=E-commerce, Thompson Holidays UK launched an e-commerce offering three years prior to MAID in 1981. 82.163.113.33 ( talk) 14:02, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
I have reverted the article, and told the SPA account holder that reverted the statement: that he is a father of ecommerce, which is false of course, to undergo WP:PAID disclosure, which of course will not happen. Just to note, I have been a software engineer in the UK and Europe for more than 25 years. Spent my time reading Omni years ago, when I was a kid and read a whole bunch of trade computing magazines and newspapers in the interim, including the likes of Computing and EWeek and I have never heard of Dan Wagner. I known about Alan Turning, Bertrand Russel, Whitehead, Knuth from the past and a whole bunch of folk from the present, like Lee, Ellison, Jobs and Gates, city folk and industry insiders but not Dan Wagner. scope_creep ( talk) 15:46, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
scope_creep ( talk) 15:46, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
Hello. I am not a single purpose account. I am an IP user which are just as legit as any one with a registered user on wikipedia. IP users make up the major contributors of wikipedia and as IPs change their contributions get lost into previous IPs, so just because I edited this article does not mean that your personal experiences should take precedence over mine. What you are saying is all your original research while I gave a reference. I am also searching for more. I am infact giving away my location with my IP while you are the one anonymous. So let's not discredit each other and work based on references.
85.255.233.221 ( talk) 12:23, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
Just because my IP automatically switched (IPs do that!) doesn't mean that I am trying to look like more than one person. The network automatically changes IP some times. IP 85 and 95 above are both me. Please assume good faith and stay on topic!
95.210.221.6 ( talk) 08:02, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
I have no idea who the ISP assigns the IP addresses and whose IPs they use which is why I have simply mentioned and owned my IPs. None of the other IPs or users belong to me and I shall not be accused of being them any more than you shall be accused of being one of them. I will ignore all your further comments regarding this matter so that this debate on the topic is not deviated so please dont waste your time asking me more incessant questions.
I will be adding more references here in time.
95.210.221.6 ( talk) 11:42, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
Back to topic, I said I would be bringing in more references as I am not in favour of trimming valid facts from wikipedia though I support writing the articles in neutral way and not advertising any specific party. I gave some references before and there are more references I found from the library and I am sending scanned copies of the same for your review. That settles my support of including the claim that he was in fact the founder (or pioneer) of British e-commerce. The article from Marketing in 1988 states 'MAID has built a unique technology platform that allows articles to be purchased using computers. Mr Wagner has pioneered the technology to take payment in this way....' (obviously in 1988 ecommerce wasn't even a term that had been invented but the quote is clear) and the second article is from the UK national newspaper the Guardian dated May 1995 which says '...(he) sees where the information highway is headed before anyone else has dreamed up the phrase' and '...ten years later, widely regarded as having invented electronic commerce, he launches his pioneering company.....'. I have done enough for my burden of proof as far as WP:V goes by giving reliable sources. Now if any one wants to read more on the topic, it is up to them to go to a library - but from my end, for some verification of the facts, I am giving the historical references for your reading as a courtesy and not just their citation details. You can see the scanned copies on the following links: Marketing Mag - May 1988 https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8CxFjCGp3NEWlE2eGphSEtaajA and The Guardian Newspaper - May 1995 https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8CxFjCGp3NEWlU0ZVlfTGMwd0U
95.210.221.6 ( talk) 14:18, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
You are synthesizing your own opinion from the ecommerce wikipedia article and other references. None of them state or argue that Dan Wagner was not the founder of British ecommerce. They might mention other similar services but saying that Dan (Marketing Mag - May 1988 https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8CxFjCGp3NEWlE2eGphSEtaajA and The Guardian Newspaper - May 1995 https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8CxFjCGp3NEWlU0ZVlfTGMwd0U) called (or credited) Dan Wagner the founder of British ecommerce will be an indisputable statement. Because I did provide references that did call him that. Now, this can be said in a more neutral way as I stated. Such technologies evolve and may be pioneered in multiple ways. That does not negate my argument in any way.
95.210.221.6 ( talk) 19:24, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
I've revert another WP:NONCON change by IP 95.210.221.6. Please discuss suggested changes on this page for all editors to review and agree.
Yak, your comments are original research. Wikipedia rules require us to say what reliable resources state. We are not allowed to do our own research on who is infact the founder or who started such a business first. That would be WP:TRUTH of your understanding and should not be a part of the discussion here. If a reliable resource mentions or implies or calls Dan Wagner the founder, then we should write it as such. If editors have problem it being neutral, it can be modified to attribution like "[source here] called [or credited] Dan Wagner as the founder of British E-Commerce." Your calculations and dates have no value here just like mine. Neither can you combine and research different sources. We will article what a references says properly.
Melcous, If you disagree, I can collect all resources and start an RFC to get a better consensus. I can do that in the next days unless you people are willing to discuss the attributed suggestion I gave.
95.210.221.6 ( talk) 17:43, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
I tried to conduct moderated dispute resolution at the dispute resolution noticeboard. It is my conclusion that the statement that Dan Wagner is the "founder of British e-Commerce" or a "founder of British e-Commerce" cannot be substantiated. I will be recommending semi-protection of the article for an extended period of time because of the promotional editing from unregistered editors. Robert McClenon ( talk) 13:43, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
My request to semi-protect the article was declined because there has not been enough disruptive editing to justify semi-protection. There is, in my opinion, a consensus against adding a "founder" claim. As a result, editors should boldly remove any such claim. If there is edit-warring to insert it, the edit-warring may be reported at the edit-warring noticeboard, or a new Request for Page Protection for semi-protection can be made. Robert McClenon ( talk) 01:26, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
There are now more references to the legal battle against Ben White which has been settled in his favour. Should it now be included? Apologies for any breaches in etiquette, I am new to this.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-5213213/Tech-entrepreneur-loses-battle-avoid-paying-1-5m.html https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/powa-founder-dan-wagner-loses-court-battle-over-2m-demand-j8j3tfs9l — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.240.177.234 ( talk) 10:57, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
There are three distinct questions for consideration here, each of which will be dealt with separately below:
Please note my disclosed COI above, I’m sorry to have put up a multi-pronged RfC about basic content that obviously belongs in this article, but a standard Request Edit was blocked by User:Scope creep, who has been heavily monitoring this article for many years. Scope said that “exactly the content that was taken out in 2017 by consensus with some uptodate content” this 2017 RfC. This is simply false. There is no overlap. Scope further said “You as Dan Wagner obviously want to turn back the clock and put the puff back in, as it was before. That is not going to happen.” Scope also characterized my proposals as WP:PROMOTIONAL.
First, I am not Dan Wagner; as I noted in the Request Edit I submitted, I am a paid consultant for WhiteHatWiki, which was hired by Dan Wagner. I have full discretion to act independently, though. I have no connection to any editors who have edited this article or participated on Talk in the past. I have simply looked for obvious weaknesses in the article and found a few glaring omissions that should not be controversial, yet have been blocked. W12SW77 ( talk) 18:42, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
Yes. First, there is nothing in the 2017 RfC about Attraqt, so this is a novel question. Dan Wagner founded this firm, worked there for more than 13 years and brought it public. Supporting sources include stories in The Times of London. [1] and The Financial Times. [2] It’s difficult to see how this prominent career event should not be included. I have created a short version in my Sandbox, which can be found here: User:W12SW77/sandbox#Attraqt W12SW77 ( talk) 18:42, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
Yes. First, there is nothing in the 2017 RfC about Rezolve, so this is a novel question. Wagner’s role as the founder and CEO of Rezolve, a publicly traded company, has been covered extensively in leading mainstream press, including The Times of London [3] and the Wall Street Journal. [4] It’s difficult to see how this prominent career event should not be included. I have created a short version in my Sandbox, which can be found here: User:W12SW77/sandbox#Rezolve. W12SW77 ( talk) 18:42, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
Yes. First, there is nothing in the 2017 RfC about Wagner’s role creating and running Powa, so this is a novel question. Wagner is well known for founding and being the CEO of Powa Technologies. It eventually went into Administration (law)#United Kingdom (akin to bankruptcy). At present, the section Dan Wagner#Powa Technologies has one sentence about what the company did, compared to eleven sentences about its collapse.
Source include the Financial Times, [5] [6] The Independent, [7] and the Wall Street Journal. [8] This is justified by simple WP: PROPORTION. I have posted a potential revision that includes three sentences about what Wagner did at the company before it went into administration. User:W12SW77/sandbox#Powa. W12SW77 ( talk) 18:42, 20 October 2022 (UTC) W12SW77 ( talk) 18:42, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
References
As a WhiteHatWiki paid editor, your attempt to bypass the edit request mechanism seems be an attempt to WP:GAME the system. There was consensus to remove this information in 2017 as it was found to be completely promotional, after an RFC, edit warring taking place and two dispute resolutions, yet we are back here as though none of that took place. It is almost entirely the same content as before, with a better focus certainly but the references are still PR that will WP:PUFF the article up, that for what is a WP:BLP. So you can get your bonus at our expense. No thanks. scope_creep Talk 19:50, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
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Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
I've reverted the recent changes to the introduction paragraph to the previous agreed content. No new information has been presented to warrant the change. The value of the sale is mentioned in the dialog section. 109.169.67.207 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:08, 22 June 2017 (UTC) .
Venda was a different company to MAID/Dialog. Venda was sold in 2014 and Dialog was sold in 2000. They are different successful businesses that we created by Mr Wagner and sold.
User: Techtrek has posted a picture of the subject [1], declaring it as their own work. Does this not suggest an undeclared interest in the subject? PR representative perhaps? 5.226.137.179 ( talk) 10:58, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
Also, this is the same picture used on the subject's blog, https://www.dan-wagner.com/. 5.226.137.179 ( talk) 14:48, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
I added a section to Powa relating to the investment from Wellington. Not sure if it belongs on this page or Powa. Given that there's a fairly large section dedicated to the original investment, seems fair that this be alongside it.
There is widespread coverage of a $2bn litigation beteeen shareholders in Powa and Wellington Management and Ben White, a former director. Either this is added or the page should remain silent but it cannot out forward comments from Wellington whilst ignoring the other perspective from shareholders and management.
I also removed the mention of the venda sale to oracle. This has been discussed at length above. As the subject wasn't involved in the sale, shouldn't be on his page.
The subject was the chairman, founder and largest shareholder in Venda at the time of the sale to Oracle so very much relevant to his profile.
As a side note, I noticed the fresh edits (and attempted promotional language which has been removed by another editor) coincides with the subject appearing in the news recently, http://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3193955. 5.226.137.179 ( talk) 11:26, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
The intro is extremely relavant to the subject given it is a new launch of a business that appears to be getting widespread coverage and momentum.
I'm trying to encourage the use of the talk page to avert another edit war and strongly encourage other editors to engage here before making changes. 5.226.137.179 ( talk) 11:26, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
Agree
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Unfortunately, another edit war has broken out on the article, and there is little attempt to resolve this with other editors on this page. 5.226.137.179 ( talk) 10:29, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
This user 5.226.137.179 (also known as Ol King Col) has been vandalising this page since he was fired by Dan Wagner in 2014. His vendetta is relentless as he is still out of work (unsurprisingly - because no one wants to employ a deranged fool). Please review his cynical edits designed to discredit Mr Wagner and his achievements. Notice the disproportionate text on Powa and the deletions of text on Venda - the European market leader in eCommerce founded by Mr Wagner and sold to NetSuite now owned by Oracle — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.120.225.26 ( talk • contribs) 12:46, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
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Please see above. 5.226.137.179 ( talk) 12:57, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
Following on from User:Huon's suggestion to add structure around the discussed points:
The sale figure of Dialog has been quoted as being worth $500m but the FT state it was $275m, https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2016/03/23/2157473/dont-call-it-another-dan-wagner-comeback/?mhq5j=e2. Please can the article be updated to reflect this. Also, it wasn't MAID sold to Thomson Corporation, it was Dialog, formerly know as MAID (renamed after the acquisition), http://newsbreaks.infotoday.com/NewsBreaks/MAID-Moves-Closer-to-DIALOG-Purchase-18023.asp 5.226.137.179 ( talk) 08:32, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
The sources used for the MAID/Dialog sale in the intro aren't well sources. Ref 4, https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/mar/14/portraits-dotcom-entrepreneurs-bubble-burst, makes a passing mention of the sale, absent of date and price. Ref 3, http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/entrepreneurs/famous-entrepreneurs/he-floated-his-first-company-for-120m-aged-31-now-powa-ceo-dan-wagner-says-the-uk-doesnt-get-tech/6526.article, contradicts the ft article above. FT vs 'London Loves Business' 5.226.137.179 ( talk) 08:52, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
The Venda section is misleading. Previous edits have tried to conflate the sale to Netsuite with Oracle's purchase of Netsuite 2 years later. We have two choices, follow the lead of User: SmartSE (see January edits & discussions) and exclude the sale altogether as there is no mention of the subject in the sales proceedings according to sourced articles (the subject was not CEO at the time of the sale), or include it, removing reference to Oracle as it's irrelevant for the reasons stated above. If the consensus is to keep the sale, in keeping with the rest of the article and references to sales, include the price as $50.5m quoted http://www.crn.com/news/cloud/300073512/netsuite-details-50-5m-deal-for-venda-in-q2-results.htm, https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2016/03/23/2157473/dont-call-it-another-dan-wagner-comeback/?mhq5j=e2 & the Venda page.
I propose the removal of "the founder of British eCommerce", as it's subjective language and has been flagged by another editor as WP:PEACOCK.
There are numerous articles that say the subject is the 'founder of British eCommerce' and Taiwan News - a highly respected daily newspaper in Taiwan was just one of many that referred to the subject in this way. see http://m.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/2017/06/21/498936/UK-entrepreneur.htm and here 新的移動電子商務技術 進入台灣市場-政治-HiNet新聞 http://times.hinet.net/mobile/news/20258229 and here 大成報 Great News - 政治經濟 http://www.twgreatnews.com/home/news_pagein.php?iType=1008&n_id=140970 and here PChome 新聞 http://news.m.pchome.com.tw/politics/twpowernews/20170621/index-14980526951033147001.html and here 新的移動電子商務技術進入台灣市場 蕃新聞 http://n.yam.com/Article/20170621472035/%E6%96%B0%E7%9A%84%E7%A7%BB%E5%8B%95%E9%9B%BB%E5%AD%90%E5%95%86%E5%8B%99%E6%8A%80%E8%A1%93%E9%80%B2%E5%85%A5%E5%8F%B0%E7%81%A3%E5%B8%82%E5%A0%B4 and here 勁報 Power News - 政治經濟 http://www.twpowernews.com/home/news_pagein.php?iType=1008&n_id=124192. In addition, the subject is widely regarded as having been a pioneer in online information - requiring the development of eCommerce systems in 1984 - a decade before Amazon was founded. The FT article states as much here http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8777fd1e-1915-11e2-af4e-00144feabdc0.html#axzz35JsfdYgS and the Observer said the same thing here https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/mar/14/portraits-dotcom-entrepreneurs-bubble-burst. There are many other references to the subject's influence on eCommerce both in the UK and globally. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.233.78.117 ( talk) 20:21, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
What you say about the references being published around the same time is not of concern. As far as they are all reliable references on wikipedia standards, they are all admissible. If a reference clearly states that he is the founder of British e-commerce, then those references' own credibility can be used to mention this as a fact. In anycase, we can at minimum attribute the fact to those references - like "He is regarded as the founder of the British e-commerce by [references/expert names here]". That would be more neutral - **if** you are able to negate the point with any other references. If you arnt able to negate them, then this should stay in as a fact rather than attributed statement. These statements are completely according to wikipedia's WP:NPOV policy. You can not violate these policies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.102.25.125 ( talk) 08:52, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
92.233.78.117 ( talk) 20:37, 5 July 2017 (UTC) You say that the references are copies of each other from different publications, that happens a lot in news world. You might have noticed that main mainstream news sites publish same stories - this happens often when it is supplied by agencies like Agence France-Presse. Maybe you can call them one source but you can not call them no source and the fact that all those different news sites have republished the material, add to its credibility. Ironically, what you have to present in counter argument is twitter / social media which is not acceptable by wikipedia as reliable source. I would suggest that you keep your speculation, social media following and WP:OR based personal commentary out of this debate so that we can discuss in line with wiki policies. WP:OR will be ignored and reverted on wikipedia articles.
Techtrek ( talk) 20:38, 5 July 2017 (UTC) I am initiating this discussion to mutually work it out with the editors disputing the intro and other details of this topic on wikipedia. I suggest that we stop discussing editors and throwing around accusations and instead focus on content, at the same time, we should completely stop the edit war and editing /reverting further until consensus is gained here for making any edits according to wikipedia rules.
Ol King Col, if you want to change the intro, explain why and what you need to add.
If you think that you are unable to gain consensus on the matter, I will invite neutral editors using a WP:RFC to get a clear consensus but - first try to explain based on wikipedia policies why you want to remove this. This goes for all edits to be made and not intro. Let us stop edit war and discuss civilly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Techtrek ( talk • contribs) 20:33, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution. Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you! 5.226.137.179 ( talk) 09:44, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
Previously, User:Huon stated: ″That Wagner has said he's going to sue and that he was conspired against might be worth a note in the body of the article; it's not important enough to make up half the lead. See WP:UNDUE. Besides, Wikipedia is not a platform for Mr Wagner's views. When he has sued things certainly are worth mentioning (though I expect it's rather difficult to sue people for not throwing good money after bad); right now this is all hot air and evidence-less allegations.″
Although I added this to the article, on reflection and taking into account Use:Huon previous feedback, there has been no progress on the matter, at least as reported by the press. Have the court proceedings started? It hasn't been reported, thererfore it should be removed.
The section relating the the claim against the subject by Ben White should remain as this article, https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2016/06/07/2165045/ex-powa-director-battles-dan-wagner-over-unpaid-loan/?mhq5j=e2, claims the case has been issued at the court.
5.226.137.179 ( talk) 12:44, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
The subject has brought proceedings in the high court of justice in London on Monday May 12 to appoint KPMG to commence proceedings against Wellington, Ben White and others. Simultaneously, two hedge funds, Aquila and Rovio, both investors in Powa, petitioned the Manchester court to appoint Duff and Phelps to commence proceedings against Wellington and Ben White. Two separate petitions to bring actions against Wellington and Ben White. A subsequent hearing in the Manchester court on May 25th was adjourned and a new date in Manchester has been set for August 3 2017 to discuss the merits of either KPMG or Duff and Phelps. All in court records and all pointing to a genuine dispute about the demise of Powa. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.233.78.117 ( talk) 20:27, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
92.233.78.117 ( talk) 20:47, 5 July 2017 (UTC) I have no relation to the subject and knowing details that are not in the news for every one to read only implies that I have researched more than a quick google search. I'm glad that you are impressed by my knowledge about the topic but repeatedly accusing another editor of something they've denied is taken as a personal attack and is a blockable offense on wikipedia. I could similarly say that you are related to some one opposing the subject for the amends you are making and that would hold the same credibility as what you say - so let's avoid that all together and discuss the issue itself. The court listings are publicly available and I am an interested party following the events of the potential litigation.
There are seven questions to consider here, each has its own subsection below:
Please refer to the above sections for positions taken by editors participating on this page. 94.193.159.223 ( talk) 09:49, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
-- 185.69.145.158 ( talk) 11:45, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
( Summoned by bot)IP, is your double !vote just an example or the reasons for and against? Thanks, L3X1 (distænt write) )evidence( 16:51, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
Regarding
Further to the comprehensive re-write User:Scope creep has undertaken can I suggest that the intro is amended. It has previously been discussed, at length, on here that the inclusion of the phrase "has been called 'the founder of British eCommerce'" is pure puffery and comes from PR press release as outlined above, so should be removed. It was also discussed Talk:Dan_Wagner#Should_the_statement_.27who_has_been_called_.27the_founder_of_British_eCommerce.27_be_removed_from_the_intro.3F where the votes overwhelmingly agreed to remove.
Also, the photo has been discussed on here previously, as per above it was posted by a user who has now been banned for sock-puppetry as the account was being used to puff up the subject and so should now be removed, as well as that copyright ownership has not been proven. Ol king col ( talk) 12:02, 07 August 2017 (UTC)
Looking at the picture you guys are talking about, it says that "An email has been received at OTRS concerning this file, and can be read here by users with an OTRS account." It appears that the copy right permissions are being dealt with by wikipedia's OTRS team. If some one of the editors are emailing wikipedia team to donate the image using eligible copyrights, then it is wikipedia's benefit to let the OTRS team handle it. That said, I will also like to be a part of these editing efforts to make this article more neutral. It seems to be an interesting read.
95.210.221.6 ( talk) 07:41, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
I did comprehensive search of the phrase, and could find no mention of it, outside that one paper, and is not sufficient to establish notability. It is completely subjective and will not be included unless notability is established. scope_creep ( talk) 14:04, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
I have been reading business news, ecommerce and industry publications for decades and following technology professionals and entrepreneurs such as Dan Wagner since he launched his business in france in 1986 and I think he has been widely known here as an innovator in ecommerce. I have also seen numerous sources that call him the 'founder of the british ecommerce'. The fact that Dan Wagner created the first digital commerce platform to sell information in 1984 is in itself proof of this fact. The worldwide web wasn't even proposed until 1989 and so this was five years before the internet as we know it came in to being, as a result many of these reference sources would be offline and this would be a bias towards online sources. As far as I know, wikipedia policies dictate neutrality and sticking to online only material would totally be against the website's own policies. I recommend that offline news and references be considered for this purpose. Many french articles appeared in the eighties about him being a pioneer in e-commerce but these were before digital archives become widely used. For example, according to The Observer, "... one of the first people to realise the benefits of packaging electronic information and data for scientists, librarians and other specialists." There are also the numerous Chinese articles available for this fact. In 1997, for example, Dan Wagner did a major deal in Japan with Fujitsu where U.K. Prime minister Tony Blair sent his Trade and industry Secretary to participate in the announcements and at the time many Japanese newspapers called Dan Wagner the Pioneer of ecommerce and the 'UKs Bill Gates'. Therefore, I think this is not any kind of puffery in the article and only a fact. I am all for being neutral in wikipedia articles but unbecoming of wikipedia by trimming down facts is not good.
95.210.221.6 ( talk) 07:36, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
Reading the article again, the intro line says "he has also been called 'the founder of British eCommerce'". This is not even being stated as a fact of facts. It is only being mentioned, as per references, that credible sources credit him with that. I think this is a fair statement to make as accorded by /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources#Context_matters
95.210.221.6 ( talk) 07:48, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
Hi Melcous, why are you not satisfied with the five Chinese sources from China and Taiwan that appeared only recently and stated that Dan Wagner is the founder of British e-commerce? Surely that is sufficient according to wiki policies. You only need one reputable source and Taiwan news is one such credible source ( http://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3193955) as are at least two of the others that said the same thing.
95.210.221.6 ( talk) 08:29, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
I dont think I am the only editor on any side. After reading talk page history of this article, it is clear to me that two parties (in favour and against), including Ol King Col and Techtrek, have been fighting it out on this biography to amend different kind of edits. I dont care what each of them want to include or exclude but thanks for pointing out that this topic is a bit of controversial which lead me to read the previous history in more detail. I agree with working using consensus and I suggest that the format of wikipedia debate is followed.
95.210.221.6 ( talk) 11:32, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.210.221.6 ( talk) 11:30, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
No, I have not edited this article before. Have you?
85.255.233.221 ( talk) 12:22, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
Do you have any idea how many people use vodafone! If all of them editing in the topic would be treated like this if they differ with your opinion, that is bad faith. It is an offense to assume bad faith against editors on wikipedia and I suggest you stick to discussing the topic and not me or other IPs as you are spoiling the environment of discussion on this talk page. I am not even a vodafone customer, my mobile provider is SFR in France. I don't think Vodafone even operate here (but I cannot confess to knowing how the mobile operators manage IP ranges). In any event, it is visible that IPs on each side of the edit wars were blocked.
95.210.221.6 ( talk) 16:19, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
According to /info/en/?search=E-commerce, Thompson Holidays UK launched an e-commerce offering three years prior to MAID in 1981. 82.163.113.33 ( talk) 14:02, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
I have reverted the article, and told the SPA account holder that reverted the statement: that he is a father of ecommerce, which is false of course, to undergo WP:PAID disclosure, which of course will not happen. Just to note, I have been a software engineer in the UK and Europe for more than 25 years. Spent my time reading Omni years ago, when I was a kid and read a whole bunch of trade computing magazines and newspapers in the interim, including the likes of Computing and EWeek and I have never heard of Dan Wagner. I known about Alan Turning, Bertrand Russel, Whitehead, Knuth from the past and a whole bunch of folk from the present, like Lee, Ellison, Jobs and Gates, city folk and industry insiders but not Dan Wagner. scope_creep ( talk) 15:46, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
scope_creep ( talk) 15:46, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
Hello. I am not a single purpose account. I am an IP user which are just as legit as any one with a registered user on wikipedia. IP users make up the major contributors of wikipedia and as IPs change their contributions get lost into previous IPs, so just because I edited this article does not mean that your personal experiences should take precedence over mine. What you are saying is all your original research while I gave a reference. I am also searching for more. I am infact giving away my location with my IP while you are the one anonymous. So let's not discredit each other and work based on references.
85.255.233.221 ( talk) 12:23, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
Just because my IP automatically switched (IPs do that!) doesn't mean that I am trying to look like more than one person. The network automatically changes IP some times. IP 85 and 95 above are both me. Please assume good faith and stay on topic!
95.210.221.6 ( talk) 08:02, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
I have no idea who the ISP assigns the IP addresses and whose IPs they use which is why I have simply mentioned and owned my IPs. None of the other IPs or users belong to me and I shall not be accused of being them any more than you shall be accused of being one of them. I will ignore all your further comments regarding this matter so that this debate on the topic is not deviated so please dont waste your time asking me more incessant questions.
I will be adding more references here in time.
95.210.221.6 ( talk) 11:42, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
Back to topic, I said I would be bringing in more references as I am not in favour of trimming valid facts from wikipedia though I support writing the articles in neutral way and not advertising any specific party. I gave some references before and there are more references I found from the library and I am sending scanned copies of the same for your review. That settles my support of including the claim that he was in fact the founder (or pioneer) of British e-commerce. The article from Marketing in 1988 states 'MAID has built a unique technology platform that allows articles to be purchased using computers. Mr Wagner has pioneered the technology to take payment in this way....' (obviously in 1988 ecommerce wasn't even a term that had been invented but the quote is clear) and the second article is from the UK national newspaper the Guardian dated May 1995 which says '...(he) sees where the information highway is headed before anyone else has dreamed up the phrase' and '...ten years later, widely regarded as having invented electronic commerce, he launches his pioneering company.....'. I have done enough for my burden of proof as far as WP:V goes by giving reliable sources. Now if any one wants to read more on the topic, it is up to them to go to a library - but from my end, for some verification of the facts, I am giving the historical references for your reading as a courtesy and not just their citation details. You can see the scanned copies on the following links: Marketing Mag - May 1988 https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8CxFjCGp3NEWlE2eGphSEtaajA and The Guardian Newspaper - May 1995 https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8CxFjCGp3NEWlU0ZVlfTGMwd0U
95.210.221.6 ( talk) 14:18, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
You are synthesizing your own opinion from the ecommerce wikipedia article and other references. None of them state or argue that Dan Wagner was not the founder of British ecommerce. They might mention other similar services but saying that Dan (Marketing Mag - May 1988 https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8CxFjCGp3NEWlE2eGphSEtaajA and The Guardian Newspaper - May 1995 https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8CxFjCGp3NEWlU0ZVlfTGMwd0U) called (or credited) Dan Wagner the founder of British ecommerce will be an indisputable statement. Because I did provide references that did call him that. Now, this can be said in a more neutral way as I stated. Such technologies evolve and may be pioneered in multiple ways. That does not negate my argument in any way.
95.210.221.6 ( talk) 19:24, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
I've revert another WP:NONCON change by IP 95.210.221.6. Please discuss suggested changes on this page for all editors to review and agree.
Yak, your comments are original research. Wikipedia rules require us to say what reliable resources state. We are not allowed to do our own research on who is infact the founder or who started such a business first. That would be WP:TRUTH of your understanding and should not be a part of the discussion here. If a reliable resource mentions or implies or calls Dan Wagner the founder, then we should write it as such. If editors have problem it being neutral, it can be modified to attribution like "[source here] called [or credited] Dan Wagner as the founder of British E-Commerce." Your calculations and dates have no value here just like mine. Neither can you combine and research different sources. We will article what a references says properly.
Melcous, If you disagree, I can collect all resources and start an RFC to get a better consensus. I can do that in the next days unless you people are willing to discuss the attributed suggestion I gave.
95.210.221.6 ( talk) 17:43, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
I tried to conduct moderated dispute resolution at the dispute resolution noticeboard. It is my conclusion that the statement that Dan Wagner is the "founder of British e-Commerce" or a "founder of British e-Commerce" cannot be substantiated. I will be recommending semi-protection of the article for an extended period of time because of the promotional editing from unregistered editors. Robert McClenon ( talk) 13:43, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
My request to semi-protect the article was declined because there has not been enough disruptive editing to justify semi-protection. There is, in my opinion, a consensus against adding a "founder" claim. As a result, editors should boldly remove any such claim. If there is edit-warring to insert it, the edit-warring may be reported at the edit-warring noticeboard, or a new Request for Page Protection for semi-protection can be made. Robert McClenon ( talk) 01:26, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
There are now more references to the legal battle against Ben White which has been settled in his favour. Should it now be included? Apologies for any breaches in etiquette, I am new to this.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-5213213/Tech-entrepreneur-loses-battle-avoid-paying-1-5m.html https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/powa-founder-dan-wagner-loses-court-battle-over-2m-demand-j8j3tfs9l — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.240.177.234 ( talk) 10:57, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
There are three distinct questions for consideration here, each of which will be dealt with separately below:
Please note my disclosed COI above, I’m sorry to have put up a multi-pronged RfC about basic content that obviously belongs in this article, but a standard Request Edit was blocked by User:Scope creep, who has been heavily monitoring this article for many years. Scope said that “exactly the content that was taken out in 2017 by consensus with some uptodate content” this 2017 RfC. This is simply false. There is no overlap. Scope further said “You as Dan Wagner obviously want to turn back the clock and put the puff back in, as it was before. That is not going to happen.” Scope also characterized my proposals as WP:PROMOTIONAL.
First, I am not Dan Wagner; as I noted in the Request Edit I submitted, I am a paid consultant for WhiteHatWiki, which was hired by Dan Wagner. I have full discretion to act independently, though. I have no connection to any editors who have edited this article or participated on Talk in the past. I have simply looked for obvious weaknesses in the article and found a few glaring omissions that should not be controversial, yet have been blocked. W12SW77 ( talk) 18:42, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
Yes. First, there is nothing in the 2017 RfC about Attraqt, so this is a novel question. Dan Wagner founded this firm, worked there for more than 13 years and brought it public. Supporting sources include stories in The Times of London. [1] and The Financial Times. [2] It’s difficult to see how this prominent career event should not be included. I have created a short version in my Sandbox, which can be found here: User:W12SW77/sandbox#Attraqt W12SW77 ( talk) 18:42, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
Yes. First, there is nothing in the 2017 RfC about Rezolve, so this is a novel question. Wagner’s role as the founder and CEO of Rezolve, a publicly traded company, has been covered extensively in leading mainstream press, including The Times of London [3] and the Wall Street Journal. [4] It’s difficult to see how this prominent career event should not be included. I have created a short version in my Sandbox, which can be found here: User:W12SW77/sandbox#Rezolve. W12SW77 ( talk) 18:42, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
Yes. First, there is nothing in the 2017 RfC about Wagner’s role creating and running Powa, so this is a novel question. Wagner is well known for founding and being the CEO of Powa Technologies. It eventually went into Administration (law)#United Kingdom (akin to bankruptcy). At present, the section Dan Wagner#Powa Technologies has one sentence about what the company did, compared to eleven sentences about its collapse.
Source include the Financial Times, [5] [6] The Independent, [7] and the Wall Street Journal. [8] This is justified by simple WP: PROPORTION. I have posted a potential revision that includes three sentences about what Wagner did at the company before it went into administration. User:W12SW77/sandbox#Powa. W12SW77 ( talk) 18:42, 20 October 2022 (UTC) W12SW77 ( talk) 18:42, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
References
As a WhiteHatWiki paid editor, your attempt to bypass the edit request mechanism seems be an attempt to WP:GAME the system. There was consensus to remove this information in 2017 as it was found to be completely promotional, after an RFC, edit warring taking place and two dispute resolutions, yet we are back here as though none of that took place. It is almost entirely the same content as before, with a better focus certainly but the references are still PR that will WP:PUFF the article up, that for what is a WP:BLP. So you can get your bonus at our expense. No thanks. scope_creep Talk 19:50, 20 October 2022 (UTC)