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I have submitted this article for deletion. It has gone through a long history of NPOV and BLP issues. Other reasons are questionable notability and citations. The subject of the article is constantly being attacked. It would be better for the wiki community to have this deleted rather than cause confusion and show bias which does not uphold the principles of good faith of the community. Please comment here first before you think about removing the submission. Cablespy ( talk) 15:41, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
As advised by Dreaded Walrus, I would like to contest the said deletion of this article. Im new to wikipedia and not sure how can I proceed on making this article acceptable to the policies and guidelines that is currently imposed. I just wanted to create an article in order to feature Mr Daniels S. Peña's Biography and to be able to share to the world about his success from being a simple person and became a successful businessman and entrepreneur through the help of a mentor.
If you can help me improved this article, many thanks to you.
Izonetech-ph ( talk) 14:09, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Previously, this article was written in a style mostly praising Mr. Pena. Now it is turning into a character assassination full of innuendo. These are both equally unacceptable. The pdf scan being used as a source right now is worthless, as most of the article is not visible so we don't really know what it is about. WP:BLP is very clear that controversial information about living persons must be verified or it should be removed immediately. Beeblebrox ( talk) 15:53, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
The user Esinclair52 has been made more than 10 revisions within 24 hours which violate the three revert rule. Administrators please look into this. The revisions may be violating NPOV. Onital77 ( talk)
A new link has been added (not by me). It's to an apparently irrelevant single sentence and you have to pay to read the full article. Am I going to pay? What do you think? The addition is from what appears to be (so far) an SPA. Peridon ( talk) 18:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Pena is using WP as a platform for selling his seminars and products and none of the claims he makes is possible to prove. After all he doesn't seem at all like the business guru he claims to be but someone who is cleverly arranging different aspects for his advantage. What if the only money he ever made, was from the lawsuit against his employer, bought the castle with huge debts and really lives from that show he is pulling off with the help of WP? Is that then a noteworthy person? It seems clear that some really shady dealings have been happening in the recent past, thus the lawsuits - all positive aspects he claims is no proof available... !? -- Esinclair52 ( talk) 01:52, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
User above has made more than 3 reverts within 24 hours indicative of edit warring behavior. Very biased and making ridiculous comments like "It's unclear whether he owned or owns the castle" and ", more often being sued than actually using litigation himself." If you think it's being used as a platform to sell then lets just have this deleted. Cablespy ( talk) 15:27, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
This article has been raised at the BLP noticeboard here , I started looking at the Canadian story, it was to the average reader meaningless, excessive legal detail, with issues about other people coatracked onto the story, also there were a couple of primary citations that I removed and then the whole thing wasn't very well cited, in the end there was nothing left, perhaps with better citations the story could be re-added as a couple of lines, I also moved the India comment and then removed the controversy section. Off2riorob ( talk) 19:52, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
1. being sued in Alabama with Damion Lupo and others, sourced with a court document: http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-alndce/case_no-2:2008cv01844/case_id-124507 2. being sued as the owner of Saphie Number One Limited in Montreal, where the court states that "some fraud charges against Peña and Hall have been committed in Montreal", sourced with links to company register https://www.jerseyfsc.org/registry/documentsearch/NameDetail.aspx?id=116451, court documents http://www.canlii.org/en/qc/qccs/doc/2008/2008qccs2233/2008qccs2233.html and http://www.canlii.org/fr/qc/qccs/doc/2009/2009qccs4531/2009qccs4531.html, even a newspaper article of The Guardian ( http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2006/feb/23/newmedia.technology) connecting the dots about what they were doing. 3. being subject of a criminal investigation, sourced with newspaper articles, e.g. http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Default/Scripting/ArticleWin.asp?From=Archive&Source=Page&Skin=pastissues2&BaseHref=TOIBG/2007/05/05&PageLabel=3&EntityId=Ar00102&DataChunk=Ar00303&ViewMode=HTML&GZ=T, an explanation of what they were doing http://www.cybercellmumbai.com/write-ups/cyber-criminals-zero-in-on-airlines, another newspaper article http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_three-foreigners-swindle-thousands-from-b-lore_1094863 and then "cleared" because the police couldn't find certain data on the computers confiscated and Mr. Srinivas Mahesh, who filed the complaint, disappeared - very strange for a $400 million dollar man, don't you think? 4. being sued by his own lawyers for not paying their bills in Scotland; 70,000 GBP, quite some money, and sourced with a Times article: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article845691.ece
There is more, e.g. his first company, when he was CEO, was sued, together with him, for an alledged securities fraud, sourced by court document, very interesting read: http://ftp.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/896/896.F2d.170.88-7004.html
There is more stuff about details of his story that just don't make sense. He never made hundreds of millions of dollars.
Also, if you look at his "Works"-section on WP: a web-article on an unknown website and his self-published books are his only mentionable works? For the man he says he is, there is astonishingly little to show, nothing positive to prove or source. -- Esinclair52 ( talk) 13:05, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
Though verifiable, wikipedia is not the place to première such proof. Once proof has been presented and discussed elsewhere, it may be referenced. Court dockets and legal documents are open for misuse and misinterpretation specially in non-english languages. Bobwikwiki ( talk) 11:38, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
research 101: (1) enter "User:Cablespy" into google.com and you find "Caleb Serna (cablespy) on Twitter" ( http://www.twitter.com/cablespy) - (2) on his profile page you find his website http://designpinoy.com - a "web guy" based on the Phillipines, like Pena's latest venture... (3) you continue to danpena.com and look into the source code and find on line 860 "designpinoy Caleb Serna" ---> My guess: Cablespy is Pena's latest "business partner", speaking of hired for a purpose, COI or other such BS he brought up.-- Esinclair52 ( talk) 13:46, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
I have not even touched the article after AFD. Multiple editors have revised this in a way they see fit for wiki policy. In good faith let other more experienced neutral parties edit this article. Cablespy ( talk) 07:16, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Esinclair52 has admitted to being a reporter working on a story on Pena in a previous AFD. From the tone of his remarks, this puts him in a COI position. Cablespy ( talk) 07:16, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
I came across this page yesterday and noted that most of the sources were either missing or extremely biased (operated by Peña or someone with direct business interests in Peña). I rewrote most of the article from a neutral perspective and removed unsourced content, poorly-sourced content, and content with obvious bias. The article was also very long and included quite a lot of material that appeared to lack notability. Please feel free to re-add any removed content that you can provide new references for.
In regards to specific content and why I opted to remove it:
(I have copied our statements from about down here) the Times of India article isn't a reliable source for multiple reasons, and there are other sources that seem to suggest the opposite. The Times of India article seems to be talking about a civil case, whereas http://cybercellmumbai.gov.in/html/write-ups/cyber-criminals-zero-in-on-airlines.html, for example, is obviously a criminal case, and I can't find any sources that indicate it was dropped.
Hi.
Hmmmmm
A couple of things... we can expand the section to deal with both criminal and civil case, if you have sources, go for it.
1)* This is the only article that I can find that claims this. WP references should be verifiable; this is not. 2)* It says a "B report was filed with the I ACMM Court" - IACMM is not a court, and neither is ACMM. An ACMM appears to be an Additional Chief Metropolitan Magistrate (of the Philippines), which means that there should be some evidence of this in the legal system. I've been unable to find that evidence, and this appears to be the *only* article that asserts that the case was dropped. 3)* The article claims that the Indian engineer dropped his case and asked the court to treat it as a "mistake of facts." If the engineer has the power to do this, it means that it's a civil trial. All of the other articles discuss criminal charges, and I can find no other sources that allege that the charges were dropped. 4)* The article is unsigned/essentially anonymous (it's signed "TNN" with no contact information) and lists no sources or method of going about verifying/getting more information.
My basic response to all of this is that I don't see it as my job as a wiki editor to evaluate what the experts say, it is to report what the experts say.... with that in mind... I think #4 is the most intriguing... not so much the not verifying, the lack of authorship. Sethie ( talk) 20:09, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
Go team go! Sethie ( talk) 20:42, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
I am concerned that the dialogue going on here is in violation of WP:BLP, which includes talk pages as well [ [4]]. Some of the above text may need to be deleted or removed. I am all for including any well sourced material that documents any things this person has done wrong and against any speculation or anything that can put wikipedia at legal risk. I would ask both of you to not use this page to discuss specualtion... and to keep the focus on what allegations are well sourced and can be included in this article. Tone can be hard to read via the internet, so to be clear I'm not angry or anything, just concerned. Sethie ( talk) 20:59, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
Nope. The case was an absolute acquittal. The police called the entire affair a "mistake" and the fact is that this is not remotely proper in any BLP but if we have it, we have to accurately reflect the case. The section title should thus include the acquittal especially since zero evidence was ever given by the police at all. Which is what the original edit should have noted. And no source backs up adding FBI stuff into this, by the way, other than an en passant claim that they asked questions. Collect ( talk) 12:56, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
RE: edit ID 840083728, this has now been covered by multiple reliable news sources. What part is contentious that needs discussion before adding? http://www.gainesville.com/news/20180412/video-self-proclaimed-billionaire-threatens-uf-student Axcviii ( talk) 18:12, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
moved this here. this is not encyclopedic. perhaps these refs can be used to generate something of encyclopedic interest.
From October 2012 to January 2015, Peña ran a series of podcasts on Podbean and iTunes, "The Quantum Leap Advantage", which featured his QLA Seminars and other free content. [3] [4]
In April 2014, John Lee Dumas hosted him on his podcast: Entrepreneur On Fire. [5] Brian Rose, the host of London Real TV, invited Peña to his show in a discussion titled "Your First Hundred Million". [6] [7] Rose attended the QLA seminar October 2014 and conducted a second interview at Peña's estate. [8] [9] They collaborated for the first London Real event, "Blitz at the Ritz." [10] [11] Dave Asprey, an American " biohacker" also featured Peña on his podcast. [12] [13] Jordan Harbinger, former host of The Art of Charm did an interview on him on the same year. [14]
In May of 2016, the Opportunity Charter School in Harlem, New York, rescinded an offer for Peña to speak at the school, due to his excessive use of profanity. [15] Peña disputes this and claims that the offer was rescinded due to his support of Donald Trump. [16]
Peña was interviewed by comedians Christina Pazsitzky and Tom Segura for their podcast show "Your Mom's House Podcast". [17] [18] In March of 2017, Peña was a guest of Joe Rogan's podcast, The Joe Rogan Experience. [19] He was also interviewed by Joe Desena on his Spartan Up! podcast. [20]
Peña was featured on London Real's third feature-length documentary film, entitled "Dan Pena - The 50 Billion Dollar Man". [21] [22] [23]
References
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-- Jytdog ( talk) 00:34, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
I don't find any reason why Dan Pena's page does not have any information regarding his views against global warming despite there are videos available in youtube that Pena is swearing against global warming. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjlC02NsIt0 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2401:4900:104E:CF81:7B18:90EE:CBAD:A411 ( talk) 12:30, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
The article looked far too close to the poor shape it was in before the last rewrite, so I reverted to a version that appeared to have a good level of review before the massive expansion by WP:SPA editors that looks like WP:UPE. -- Ronz ( talk) 05:23, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
I represent the Person on this page Mr. Daniel Steven S. Peña. he has requested personally to have his Wikipedia page removed. Can we open a request for such action? Ejsmanalo ( talk) 08:55, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
Hello, nice to meet you all.
When I first saw this article I was surprised at what bad shape the page was in and, having scanned briefly through the historic edits I can see that there have been (and probably still are) people intentionally trying to worsen the quality of / vandalize the article. For example, I had removed some unreferenced information because it was not mentioned at all in the reference provided, and made other changes in good faith to generally improve the article.
So, today I see that a number of my edits are reverted... fair enough, that's part of the BRD cycle. But then I see I have Hipal ( talk) posting a baseless accusation of undisclosed paid advocacy onto my talk page, notably without providing evidence. I was hoping for a more collaborative feeling among editors on this article, honestly, and I'm disappointed that Hipal seems to be using cancel culture tactics to discourage me from editing.
Not a big deal - I know the rules of Wikipedia and if I have a financial interest I will disclose it, just as I hope you would, Hipal. None of my changes were destructive or non-referenced.
I will continue as an editor of this article, as is my right - but please if you have evidence of me being paid to edit this page then you can present it. :)
Ifdc ( talk) 04:07, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
Hipal please stop editing the name of this section I was the one who created it and it was my complaint against you so I think it's fair that the name I gave it should stay and you are breaking http links to the section by renaming it. Ifdc ( talk) 20:55, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
This is the first of the discussions by subsequently blocked editor, Ifdc. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:12, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
The relevant policies are WP:BLP, WP:NOT, and WP:POV. There's some WP:OR as well, but those seem minor and easily addressed. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:04, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
beyond simply refusing to agree. -- Hipal ( talk) 19:42, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for the work on this article, especially for Curb Safe Charmer's work. However, I've restored the advert tag. There are still poor and promotional sources, even in the lede, supporting promotional content, as identified in the six sections immediately below. -- Hipal ( talk) 19:22, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
I propose following BLP and changing the article to this version, as there's no consensus for the changes. See my edit summaries for each portion. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:08, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
The change from "businessman" to business magnate seems to be over the top puffery. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:05, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
SOLID GOLD MALT: A breathtaking price for a bottle of Scotch was set in Scotland when an American tycoon paid $9,020 for a 60-year old Macallan. It was more than four times the previous highest price of $2,074 which had already put the brand in the Guinness Book of Records. Daniel Pena, 41, president of Gulf Western Resources, bought the standard-sized bottle at an auction held in the distillery in the village of Craigellachie. A distillery official said afterward: "The price offered was so staggering that we could hardly believe it." Pena is described as being "absolutely crazy about Scotland and everything Scottish." Four years ago he bought Guthrie Castle, a turreted beauty spot from where he runs his international oil company. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ifdc ( talk • contribs) 18:24, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
Since there is consensus here- I'm going to go ahead and make the change back to businessman. Nightenbelle ( talk) 17:05, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
This seems grossly undue as well as promotional. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:06, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
Per policy- removing this contested edit. Nightenbelle ( talk) 17:05, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
I believe the refs cover the wedding business well enough to mention directly. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:09, 7 February 2021 (UTC)-- Hipal ( talk) 17:09, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
This is OR, SOAP, and a POV violation. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:13, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
Blatant SOAP and BLP violation. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:19, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
"The burden of evidence rests with the editor who adds or restores the material. We're not going to ignore this. -- Hipal ( talk) 19:22, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
Grossly undue and promotional. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:21, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
The burden of evidence rests with the editor who adds or restores the material.-- Hipal ( talk) 18:27, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
Since there is consensus this is undue I am removing per policy. Nightenbelle ( talk) 17:08, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
Hello Ifdc. The reason I added the 'failed verification' tag at that location in the career section is that the reference in the San Francisco Examiner was directly after (and therefore presumably intended to support) the statement that 'In a move backed by shareholders, Peña was ousted as president of the company in 1992 and subsequently awarded $3.3 million by an American jury, for suing the company over his dismissal'. Neither the excerpt given in the reference, nor the SFE article it was extracted from, mention him being ousted, a court case or a payout. That reference is about him buying whiskey. Curb Safe Charmer ( talk) 12:00, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
Hey sorry Curb Safe Charmer I think it's just a misunderstanding, the part where it mentions being ousted and sueing for 3.3 million is in the Fraud Shadow over Lilley Firm article. I appreciate your edits, thank you. Ifdc ( talk) 18:47, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
Hi User:Curb Safe Charmer - really appreciate your edits. I noticed the edit changing nationality from American to Mexican-American and before reverting it I thought maybe we'd discuss. Is Mexican-American a nationality? Or is it just American? Mexican-Americans don't hold Mexican-American passports, for example, but I'm open to see your point of view.
Thanks for your contributions Ifdc ( talk) 19:37, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
This is the last of the discussions by subsequently blocked editor, Ifdc. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:11, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
@ Farrtj: On 9 June 2020 one of your edits to this article was to add this reference: Peña served in the military during the [[Vietnam War]], but never saw combat.<ref name="theage1">{{cite news |last1=Betley |first1=John |title=The Land of Frasers and castles revisited |url=https://www.newspapers.com/image/461570481/?terms=%22daniel%2Bpena%22%2B%22guthrie%2Bcastle%22 |accessdate=9 June 2020 |work=The Age |date=18 March 1989}}</ref> however the URL does not correspond to that publication and I can't find an article of that title on newspapers.com. I know it is a while back, but do you know where you found it? Curb Safe Charmer ( talk) 10:43, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
@ Hipal: what was your reasoning behind this edit? It seems reliably sourced? The only oddity was Jr rather than Sr. Curb Safe Charmer ( talk) 17:57, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
@ Asteuartw: given that there's been a lot of promotional editing of the article by editors with a conflict of interest, editors watching the article are treating additions with suspicion. Have you any additional independent reliable sources that show that the Order of St John was indeed awarded to the subject of this article and not his son as indicated in The London Gazette which one would hope would not report Jr if they meant Sr? Curb Safe Charmer ( talk) 17:44, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
@ Schenkstroop: Pena's own university calls bachelor of science degrees BS - see this for example, and the Bachelor of Science article makes clear that either are valid, so your change of BS to BSc is not necessary. Curb Safe Charmer ( talk) 13:28, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
@ Lovelife11111: I'm curious why you added an "advert" template to this article. Which sentences of the article gave you the impression that it is written like an advertisement? Schenkstroop ( talk) 20:47, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
This article does not provide any encyclopedic value, and does not offer any information demonstrating that the subject possesses any notable qualities or accomplishments. 98.33.150.133 ( talk) 23:43, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
The infobox states his nationality is American. Does he hold dual Mexican citizenship, as the introductory paragraph previously asserted? — C.Fred ( talk) 17:47, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
The article has been locked, which implies control and scrutiny of future edits, keeping them within the bounds of a proper WP article. With that in mind, the (old) talk of deletion seems overboard. Further, the trimming that has been done to the article also seems somewhat overboard, and there could/should be more information added, without crossing the line where it becomes a publicity ad for Mr. Pena. Just my 2 cents. 2600:1700:BF10:69D0:6530:D2AE:B9ED:1484 ( talk) 21:47, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
@ Hipal Please see the single edit I've just made on his childhood and parents. Will let you review this given the page history before adding more info. Thanks Titus Gold ( talk) 17:46, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
The second appears due. The first, that relies very heavily on quotations, should be used with care. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:08, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Dan Peña article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on May 11, 2009. The result of the discussion was keep. |
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 5 December 2009 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep. |
![]() | The following Wikipedia contributors may be personally or professionally connected to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
conflict of interest,
autobiography, and
neutral point of view.
|
![]() | The following Wikipedia contributors may be personally or professionally connected to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
conflict of interest,
autobiography, and
neutral point of view.
|
![]() | The Wikimedia Foundation's Terms of Use require that editors disclose their "employer, client, and affiliation" with respect to any paid contribution; see WP:PAID. For advice about reviewing paid contributions, see WP:COIRESPONSE. |
![]() | Individuals with a conflict of interest, particularly those representing the subject of the article, are strongly advised not to directly edit the article. See Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. You may request corrections or suggest content here on the Talk page for independent editors to review, or contact us if the issue is urgent. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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I have submitted this article for deletion. It has gone through a long history of NPOV and BLP issues. Other reasons are questionable notability and citations. The subject of the article is constantly being attacked. It would be better for the wiki community to have this deleted rather than cause confusion and show bias which does not uphold the principles of good faith of the community. Please comment here first before you think about removing the submission. Cablespy ( talk) 15:41, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
As advised by Dreaded Walrus, I would like to contest the said deletion of this article. Im new to wikipedia and not sure how can I proceed on making this article acceptable to the policies and guidelines that is currently imposed. I just wanted to create an article in order to feature Mr Daniels S. Peña's Biography and to be able to share to the world about his success from being a simple person and became a successful businessman and entrepreneur through the help of a mentor.
If you can help me improved this article, many thanks to you.
Izonetech-ph ( talk) 14:09, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Previously, this article was written in a style mostly praising Mr. Pena. Now it is turning into a character assassination full of innuendo. These are both equally unacceptable. The pdf scan being used as a source right now is worthless, as most of the article is not visible so we don't really know what it is about. WP:BLP is very clear that controversial information about living persons must be verified or it should be removed immediately. Beeblebrox ( talk) 15:53, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
The user Esinclair52 has been made more than 10 revisions within 24 hours which violate the three revert rule. Administrators please look into this. The revisions may be violating NPOV. Onital77 ( talk)
A new link has been added (not by me). It's to an apparently irrelevant single sentence and you have to pay to read the full article. Am I going to pay? What do you think? The addition is from what appears to be (so far) an SPA. Peridon ( talk) 18:13, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
Pena is using WP as a platform for selling his seminars and products and none of the claims he makes is possible to prove. After all he doesn't seem at all like the business guru he claims to be but someone who is cleverly arranging different aspects for his advantage. What if the only money he ever made, was from the lawsuit against his employer, bought the castle with huge debts and really lives from that show he is pulling off with the help of WP? Is that then a noteworthy person? It seems clear that some really shady dealings have been happening in the recent past, thus the lawsuits - all positive aspects he claims is no proof available... !? -- Esinclair52 ( talk) 01:52, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
User above has made more than 3 reverts within 24 hours indicative of edit warring behavior. Very biased and making ridiculous comments like "It's unclear whether he owned or owns the castle" and ", more often being sued than actually using litigation himself." If you think it's being used as a platform to sell then lets just have this deleted. Cablespy ( talk) 15:27, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
This article has been raised at the BLP noticeboard here , I started looking at the Canadian story, it was to the average reader meaningless, excessive legal detail, with issues about other people coatracked onto the story, also there were a couple of primary citations that I removed and then the whole thing wasn't very well cited, in the end there was nothing left, perhaps with better citations the story could be re-added as a couple of lines, I also moved the India comment and then removed the controversy section. Off2riorob ( talk) 19:52, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
1. being sued in Alabama with Damion Lupo and others, sourced with a court document: http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-alndce/case_no-2:2008cv01844/case_id-124507 2. being sued as the owner of Saphie Number One Limited in Montreal, where the court states that "some fraud charges against Peña and Hall have been committed in Montreal", sourced with links to company register https://www.jerseyfsc.org/registry/documentsearch/NameDetail.aspx?id=116451, court documents http://www.canlii.org/en/qc/qccs/doc/2008/2008qccs2233/2008qccs2233.html and http://www.canlii.org/fr/qc/qccs/doc/2009/2009qccs4531/2009qccs4531.html, even a newspaper article of The Guardian ( http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2006/feb/23/newmedia.technology) connecting the dots about what they were doing. 3. being subject of a criminal investigation, sourced with newspaper articles, e.g. http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Default/Scripting/ArticleWin.asp?From=Archive&Source=Page&Skin=pastissues2&BaseHref=TOIBG/2007/05/05&PageLabel=3&EntityId=Ar00102&DataChunk=Ar00303&ViewMode=HTML&GZ=T, an explanation of what they were doing http://www.cybercellmumbai.com/write-ups/cyber-criminals-zero-in-on-airlines, another newspaper article http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_three-foreigners-swindle-thousands-from-b-lore_1094863 and then "cleared" because the police couldn't find certain data on the computers confiscated and Mr. Srinivas Mahesh, who filed the complaint, disappeared - very strange for a $400 million dollar man, don't you think? 4. being sued by his own lawyers for not paying their bills in Scotland; 70,000 GBP, quite some money, and sourced with a Times article: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article845691.ece
There is more, e.g. his first company, when he was CEO, was sued, together with him, for an alledged securities fraud, sourced by court document, very interesting read: http://ftp.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/896/896.F2d.170.88-7004.html
There is more stuff about details of his story that just don't make sense. He never made hundreds of millions of dollars.
Also, if you look at his "Works"-section on WP: a web-article on an unknown website and his self-published books are his only mentionable works? For the man he says he is, there is astonishingly little to show, nothing positive to prove or source. -- Esinclair52 ( talk) 13:05, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
Though verifiable, wikipedia is not the place to première such proof. Once proof has been presented and discussed elsewhere, it may be referenced. Court dockets and legal documents are open for misuse and misinterpretation specially in non-english languages. Bobwikwiki ( talk) 11:38, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
research 101: (1) enter "User:Cablespy" into google.com and you find "Caleb Serna (cablespy) on Twitter" ( http://www.twitter.com/cablespy) - (2) on his profile page you find his website http://designpinoy.com - a "web guy" based on the Phillipines, like Pena's latest venture... (3) you continue to danpena.com and look into the source code and find on line 860 "designpinoy Caleb Serna" ---> My guess: Cablespy is Pena's latest "business partner", speaking of hired for a purpose, COI or other such BS he brought up.-- Esinclair52 ( talk) 13:46, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
I have not even touched the article after AFD. Multiple editors have revised this in a way they see fit for wiki policy. In good faith let other more experienced neutral parties edit this article. Cablespy ( talk) 07:16, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
Esinclair52 has admitted to being a reporter working on a story on Pena in a previous AFD. From the tone of his remarks, this puts him in a COI position. Cablespy ( talk) 07:16, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
I came across this page yesterday and noted that most of the sources were either missing or extremely biased (operated by Peña or someone with direct business interests in Peña). I rewrote most of the article from a neutral perspective and removed unsourced content, poorly-sourced content, and content with obvious bias. The article was also very long and included quite a lot of material that appeared to lack notability. Please feel free to re-add any removed content that you can provide new references for.
In regards to specific content and why I opted to remove it:
(I have copied our statements from about down here) the Times of India article isn't a reliable source for multiple reasons, and there are other sources that seem to suggest the opposite. The Times of India article seems to be talking about a civil case, whereas http://cybercellmumbai.gov.in/html/write-ups/cyber-criminals-zero-in-on-airlines.html, for example, is obviously a criminal case, and I can't find any sources that indicate it was dropped.
Hi.
Hmmmmm
A couple of things... we can expand the section to deal with both criminal and civil case, if you have sources, go for it.
1)* This is the only article that I can find that claims this. WP references should be verifiable; this is not. 2)* It says a "B report was filed with the I ACMM Court" - IACMM is not a court, and neither is ACMM. An ACMM appears to be an Additional Chief Metropolitan Magistrate (of the Philippines), which means that there should be some evidence of this in the legal system. I've been unable to find that evidence, and this appears to be the *only* article that asserts that the case was dropped. 3)* The article claims that the Indian engineer dropped his case and asked the court to treat it as a "mistake of facts." If the engineer has the power to do this, it means that it's a civil trial. All of the other articles discuss criminal charges, and I can find no other sources that allege that the charges were dropped. 4)* The article is unsigned/essentially anonymous (it's signed "TNN" with no contact information) and lists no sources or method of going about verifying/getting more information.
My basic response to all of this is that I don't see it as my job as a wiki editor to evaluate what the experts say, it is to report what the experts say.... with that in mind... I think #4 is the most intriguing... not so much the not verifying, the lack of authorship. Sethie ( talk) 20:09, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
Go team go! Sethie ( talk) 20:42, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
I am concerned that the dialogue going on here is in violation of WP:BLP, which includes talk pages as well [ [4]]. Some of the above text may need to be deleted or removed. I am all for including any well sourced material that documents any things this person has done wrong and against any speculation or anything that can put wikipedia at legal risk. I would ask both of you to not use this page to discuss specualtion... and to keep the focus on what allegations are well sourced and can be included in this article. Tone can be hard to read via the internet, so to be clear I'm not angry or anything, just concerned. Sethie ( talk) 20:59, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
Nope. The case was an absolute acquittal. The police called the entire affair a "mistake" and the fact is that this is not remotely proper in any BLP but if we have it, we have to accurately reflect the case. The section title should thus include the acquittal especially since zero evidence was ever given by the police at all. Which is what the original edit should have noted. And no source backs up adding FBI stuff into this, by the way, other than an en passant claim that they asked questions. Collect ( talk) 12:56, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
RE: edit ID 840083728, this has now been covered by multiple reliable news sources. What part is contentious that needs discussion before adding? http://www.gainesville.com/news/20180412/video-self-proclaimed-billionaire-threatens-uf-student Axcviii ( talk) 18:12, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
moved this here. this is not encyclopedic. perhaps these refs can be used to generate something of encyclopedic interest.
From October 2012 to January 2015, Peña ran a series of podcasts on Podbean and iTunes, "The Quantum Leap Advantage", which featured his QLA Seminars and other free content. [3] [4]
In April 2014, John Lee Dumas hosted him on his podcast: Entrepreneur On Fire. [5] Brian Rose, the host of London Real TV, invited Peña to his show in a discussion titled "Your First Hundred Million". [6] [7] Rose attended the QLA seminar October 2014 and conducted a second interview at Peña's estate. [8] [9] They collaborated for the first London Real event, "Blitz at the Ritz." [10] [11] Dave Asprey, an American " biohacker" also featured Peña on his podcast. [12] [13] Jordan Harbinger, former host of The Art of Charm did an interview on him on the same year. [14]
In May of 2016, the Opportunity Charter School in Harlem, New York, rescinded an offer for Peña to speak at the school, due to his excessive use of profanity. [15] Peña disputes this and claims that the offer was rescinded due to his support of Donald Trump. [16]
Peña was interviewed by comedians Christina Pazsitzky and Tom Segura for their podcast show "Your Mom's House Podcast". [17] [18] In March of 2017, Peña was a guest of Joe Rogan's podcast, The Joe Rogan Experience. [19] He was also interviewed by Joe Desena on his Spartan Up! podcast. [20]
Peña was featured on London Real's third feature-length documentary film, entitled "Dan Pena - The 50 Billion Dollar Man". [21] [22] [23]
References
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-- Jytdog ( talk) 00:34, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
I don't find any reason why Dan Pena's page does not have any information regarding his views against global warming despite there are videos available in youtube that Pena is swearing against global warming. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjlC02NsIt0 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2401:4900:104E:CF81:7B18:90EE:CBAD:A411 ( talk) 12:30, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
The article looked far too close to the poor shape it was in before the last rewrite, so I reverted to a version that appeared to have a good level of review before the massive expansion by WP:SPA editors that looks like WP:UPE. -- Ronz ( talk) 05:23, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
I represent the Person on this page Mr. Daniel Steven S. Peña. he has requested personally to have his Wikipedia page removed. Can we open a request for such action? Ejsmanalo ( talk) 08:55, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
Hello, nice to meet you all.
When I first saw this article I was surprised at what bad shape the page was in and, having scanned briefly through the historic edits I can see that there have been (and probably still are) people intentionally trying to worsen the quality of / vandalize the article. For example, I had removed some unreferenced information because it was not mentioned at all in the reference provided, and made other changes in good faith to generally improve the article.
So, today I see that a number of my edits are reverted... fair enough, that's part of the BRD cycle. But then I see I have Hipal ( talk) posting a baseless accusation of undisclosed paid advocacy onto my talk page, notably without providing evidence. I was hoping for a more collaborative feeling among editors on this article, honestly, and I'm disappointed that Hipal seems to be using cancel culture tactics to discourage me from editing.
Not a big deal - I know the rules of Wikipedia and if I have a financial interest I will disclose it, just as I hope you would, Hipal. None of my changes were destructive or non-referenced.
I will continue as an editor of this article, as is my right - but please if you have evidence of me being paid to edit this page then you can present it. :)
Ifdc ( talk) 04:07, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
Hipal please stop editing the name of this section I was the one who created it and it was my complaint against you so I think it's fair that the name I gave it should stay and you are breaking http links to the section by renaming it. Ifdc ( talk) 20:55, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
This is the first of the discussions by subsequently blocked editor, Ifdc. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:12, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
The relevant policies are WP:BLP, WP:NOT, and WP:POV. There's some WP:OR as well, but those seem minor and easily addressed. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:04, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
beyond simply refusing to agree. -- Hipal ( talk) 19:42, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for the work on this article, especially for Curb Safe Charmer's work. However, I've restored the advert tag. There are still poor and promotional sources, even in the lede, supporting promotional content, as identified in the six sections immediately below. -- Hipal ( talk) 19:22, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
I propose following BLP and changing the article to this version, as there's no consensus for the changes. See my edit summaries for each portion. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:08, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
The change from "businessman" to business magnate seems to be over the top puffery. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:05, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
SOLID GOLD MALT: A breathtaking price for a bottle of Scotch was set in Scotland when an American tycoon paid $9,020 for a 60-year old Macallan. It was more than four times the previous highest price of $2,074 which had already put the brand in the Guinness Book of Records. Daniel Pena, 41, president of Gulf Western Resources, bought the standard-sized bottle at an auction held in the distillery in the village of Craigellachie. A distillery official said afterward: "The price offered was so staggering that we could hardly believe it." Pena is described as being "absolutely crazy about Scotland and everything Scottish." Four years ago he bought Guthrie Castle, a turreted beauty spot from where he runs his international oil company. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ifdc ( talk • contribs) 18:24, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
Since there is consensus here- I'm going to go ahead and make the change back to businessman. Nightenbelle ( talk) 17:05, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
This seems grossly undue as well as promotional. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:06, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
Per policy- removing this contested edit. Nightenbelle ( talk) 17:05, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
I believe the refs cover the wedding business well enough to mention directly. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:09, 7 February 2021 (UTC)-- Hipal ( talk) 17:09, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
This is OR, SOAP, and a POV violation. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:13, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
Blatant SOAP and BLP violation. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:19, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
"The burden of evidence rests with the editor who adds or restores the material. We're not going to ignore this. -- Hipal ( talk) 19:22, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
Grossly undue and promotional. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:21, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
The burden of evidence rests with the editor who adds or restores the material.-- Hipal ( talk) 18:27, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
Since there is consensus this is undue I am removing per policy. Nightenbelle ( talk) 17:08, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
Hello Ifdc. The reason I added the 'failed verification' tag at that location in the career section is that the reference in the San Francisco Examiner was directly after (and therefore presumably intended to support) the statement that 'In a move backed by shareholders, Peña was ousted as president of the company in 1992 and subsequently awarded $3.3 million by an American jury, for suing the company over his dismissal'. Neither the excerpt given in the reference, nor the SFE article it was extracted from, mention him being ousted, a court case or a payout. That reference is about him buying whiskey. Curb Safe Charmer ( talk) 12:00, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
Hey sorry Curb Safe Charmer I think it's just a misunderstanding, the part where it mentions being ousted and sueing for 3.3 million is in the Fraud Shadow over Lilley Firm article. I appreciate your edits, thank you. Ifdc ( talk) 18:47, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
Hi User:Curb Safe Charmer - really appreciate your edits. I noticed the edit changing nationality from American to Mexican-American and before reverting it I thought maybe we'd discuss. Is Mexican-American a nationality? Or is it just American? Mexican-Americans don't hold Mexican-American passports, for example, but I'm open to see your point of view.
Thanks for your contributions Ifdc ( talk) 19:37, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
This is the last of the discussions by subsequently blocked editor, Ifdc. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:11, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
@ Farrtj: On 9 June 2020 one of your edits to this article was to add this reference: Peña served in the military during the [[Vietnam War]], but never saw combat.<ref name="theage1">{{cite news |last1=Betley |first1=John |title=The Land of Frasers and castles revisited |url=https://www.newspapers.com/image/461570481/?terms=%22daniel%2Bpena%22%2B%22guthrie%2Bcastle%22 |accessdate=9 June 2020 |work=The Age |date=18 March 1989}}</ref> however the URL does not correspond to that publication and I can't find an article of that title on newspapers.com. I know it is a while back, but do you know where you found it? Curb Safe Charmer ( talk) 10:43, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
@ Hipal: what was your reasoning behind this edit? It seems reliably sourced? The only oddity was Jr rather than Sr. Curb Safe Charmer ( talk) 17:57, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
@ Asteuartw: given that there's been a lot of promotional editing of the article by editors with a conflict of interest, editors watching the article are treating additions with suspicion. Have you any additional independent reliable sources that show that the Order of St John was indeed awarded to the subject of this article and not his son as indicated in The London Gazette which one would hope would not report Jr if they meant Sr? Curb Safe Charmer ( talk) 17:44, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
@ Schenkstroop: Pena's own university calls bachelor of science degrees BS - see this for example, and the Bachelor of Science article makes clear that either are valid, so your change of BS to BSc is not necessary. Curb Safe Charmer ( talk) 13:28, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
@ Lovelife11111: I'm curious why you added an "advert" template to this article. Which sentences of the article gave you the impression that it is written like an advertisement? Schenkstroop ( talk) 20:47, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
This article does not provide any encyclopedic value, and does not offer any information demonstrating that the subject possesses any notable qualities or accomplishments. 98.33.150.133 ( talk) 23:43, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
The infobox states his nationality is American. Does he hold dual Mexican citizenship, as the introductory paragraph previously asserted? — C.Fred ( talk) 17:47, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
The article has been locked, which implies control and scrutiny of future edits, keeping them within the bounds of a proper WP article. With that in mind, the (old) talk of deletion seems overboard. Further, the trimming that has been done to the article also seems somewhat overboard, and there could/should be more information added, without crossing the line where it becomes a publicity ad for Mr. Pena. Just my 2 cents. 2600:1700:BF10:69D0:6530:D2AE:B9ED:1484 ( talk) 21:47, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
@ Hipal Please see the single edit I've just made on his childhood and parents. Will let you review this given the page history before adding more info. Thanks Titus Gold ( talk) 17:46, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
The second appears due. The first, that relies very heavily on quotations, should be used with care. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:08, 15 June 2024 (UTC)