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Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. Parts of this article relate to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing the parts of the page related to the contentious topic:
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"Today, only three of the Old City's gates have mezuzot attached." Which three? Can anyone verify this? Yechiel ( Shalom) 12:15, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Its located in East Jerusalem which is internationally regarded as occupied Palestinian territories, so it cant be an "Israeli building" -- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 16:29, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
The image in external links section is invalid. It divides the occupants of the area by religion, then it has Armenians (nationality) with their own section. Not to mention there is already a Christian section which most Armenians fall under. I think the image should be more clearly labelled, please change this, if nobody changes it ill find a better image and upload it. Thanks -- Eidetic Man ( talk) 00:23, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
Are you saying that the actual division of Old Jerusalem doesn't make sense? Those are the 4 quarters. Or do you mean the image suggests that the division is based on religion, which you think is misleading?
Armenian Quarter Crazytonyi ( talk) 19:34, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
There seem to be unreasonable stubbornness about the country issue. This gate, as all other gates in this wall, are in Jerusalem. Jerusalem is defined by Wikipedia itself as "the capital of Israel, though not internationally recognized as such". I suggested adding the remark "(disputed)" in order to better reflect the aforementioned description, adopted and justified by Wikipedia itself. Furthermore, these sites are de facto accessible from Israel and under Israeli civilian control. The place is not claimed by any other country, except the Palestinian Authority, which has not acquired full independence yet.
Taipei is defined in Wikipedia as "the capital of the Republic of China", even though most countries in the world recognize it as a provincial capital within the People's Republic of China. In short, there is no reason to ignore the fact that these sites are in Israel, except for expressing political opinion, which, as far as I understand, is forbidden on Wikipedia.
Sirwal (
talk)
05:33, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
This has imnplications for a number of regions in the world. There are a number of bases in Antarctica where the de facto administration is the only country claiming sovereignty, but this claim is not generally accepted. PatGallacher ( talk) 12:31, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
Well, should wikipedia be showing the current reality, or historical or proposed borders? I say the current reality. West Jerusalem is not universally recognised as being part of Israel, yet many maps place it within Israel - the reality between 48-67 (East Jerusalem was in Jordan - also not internationally recognised) Why have the maps not been updated to show current control? The fact that Israel controls and claims sovereinty in the whole of Jerusalem should be showed by the maps. There was never any acceptance on either side that any part of Jerusalem was part of the other country before '67, yet the city was split on maps, etc. Similarly, places in Northern Cyprus are not shown as being in "Cyprus". It is a fallacy to say the old city is not in Israel. It most certainly is. Whether this fact is internationally recognised or not is a different matter which is a merely an academic point. How can it be left showing parts of Jerusalem being isn any country? As fas as I'm concerned, the whole of Jerusalem is suject to dispute, yet WJ is shown as part of Israel. In addition to the fact that Jordan has renounced its claim, eastern Jerusalem locations should aslo be shown as part of Israael. When areas of this part of the ity come under Palestinian Authority control, they can be described as such. until then, these pales are firmly in Israel. Chesdovi ( talk) 10:39, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
When reaching the light rail stop at damascus gate, they announce in arabic "muhammad Bab al-amud". I didn't see the muhammad part mentioned in the article. Does anyone have idea what Damascus gate has to do with muhammad? pastasauce ( talk) 17:52, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
How does the text added here: [1] accurately describe the events of the 2021 Israel–Palestine crisis? -- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 08:41, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
::Because information on the source specifically talks about what happened in the Damascus Gate during that period. This is not a summary on the entire 2021 crisis, which goes far beyond the scope of this article. Also my first revert was against an IP who is not allowed to edit in ARBPIA in the first place, so my second revert doesn't count as an 1RR violation.
SoaringLL (
talk)
14:09, 22 June 2021 (UTC) (See
Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/יניב_הורון)
David, hi. I've copy-edited the article and took issue with a piece of material. Now I see that it was introduced by you in 2017. Be so kind, could you please explain why you brought in the Lamentations Rabbah quote? For somebody who isn't a scholar of Jewish religion, the quote looks
Here is the passage, which I have taken out from the article until it is clarified:
How is that relevant?
If it was a mistake after all and this passage needs to be left out of this article, it still can be used in other articles about the western sites, such as the Herodian towers next to the predecessor of the Jaffa Gate, the citadel, Herod's royal palace, Shimon Gibson's praetorium gate where Jesus might have been tried by Pilate, in the Old City walls article in the section discussing the western walls, or in any article discussing the 70 CE destruction and the time up to the establishment of Aelia, when, as it seems, the Xth Legion was camped adjacent to the towers and the still standing western city wall (see Hillel Geva etc.). So plenty of other opportunities.
However, then I'd like to pester you with a question of my own: Why would the Divine Presence be on/at the wall of the CITY? Only the eastern city wall corresponds in part with the precinct wall of the TEMPLE, and even there, the Shekhinah is supposed to dwell in the Holy of Holies, or is that a tradition that differs from the position taken by the Midrash Rabbah? Does the Midrash Rabbah see the Divine Presence covering the ENTIRE western part of the city? That would spell serious dialectic trouble, as the entire city AND Temple, which did indeed have its Holy of Holies on its western side, were utterly destroyed. Or does religious logic function in a different way here, maybe there's particular significance given only to the western wall/gate, not to the city quarter and even the Temple compound behind it? If so, this passage, wherever you decide to use it, must be given its very own, more metaphysical, section and needs a clear explanation from a religious pov. Not to mention that that wall and its gates were also totally destroyed, at the very latest by Al-Mu'azzam Isa in 2019, so not a good case for this wall being "decreed in heaven that it should never be destroyed". I need a short guide to the perplexed, so to say.
Thank you, Arminden ( talk) 19:50, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. Parts of this article relate to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing the parts of the page related to the contentious topic:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. If it is unclear which parts of the page are related to this contentious topic, the content in question should be marked within the wiki text by an invisible comment. If no comment is present, please ask an administrator for assistance. If in doubt it is better to assume that the content is covered.
|
"Today, only three of the Old City's gates have mezuzot attached." Which three? Can anyone verify this? Yechiel ( Shalom) 12:15, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Its located in East Jerusalem which is internationally regarded as occupied Palestinian territories, so it cant be an "Israeli building" -- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 16:29, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
The image in external links section is invalid. It divides the occupants of the area by religion, then it has Armenians (nationality) with their own section. Not to mention there is already a Christian section which most Armenians fall under. I think the image should be more clearly labelled, please change this, if nobody changes it ill find a better image and upload it. Thanks -- Eidetic Man ( talk) 00:23, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
Are you saying that the actual division of Old Jerusalem doesn't make sense? Those are the 4 quarters. Or do you mean the image suggests that the division is based on religion, which you think is misleading?
Armenian Quarter Crazytonyi ( talk) 19:34, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
There seem to be unreasonable stubbornness about the country issue. This gate, as all other gates in this wall, are in Jerusalem. Jerusalem is defined by Wikipedia itself as "the capital of Israel, though not internationally recognized as such". I suggested adding the remark "(disputed)" in order to better reflect the aforementioned description, adopted and justified by Wikipedia itself. Furthermore, these sites are de facto accessible from Israel and under Israeli civilian control. The place is not claimed by any other country, except the Palestinian Authority, which has not acquired full independence yet.
Taipei is defined in Wikipedia as "the capital of the Republic of China", even though most countries in the world recognize it as a provincial capital within the People's Republic of China. In short, there is no reason to ignore the fact that these sites are in Israel, except for expressing political opinion, which, as far as I understand, is forbidden on Wikipedia.
Sirwal (
talk)
05:33, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
This has imnplications for a number of regions in the world. There are a number of bases in Antarctica where the de facto administration is the only country claiming sovereignty, but this claim is not generally accepted. PatGallacher ( talk) 12:31, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
Well, should wikipedia be showing the current reality, or historical or proposed borders? I say the current reality. West Jerusalem is not universally recognised as being part of Israel, yet many maps place it within Israel - the reality between 48-67 (East Jerusalem was in Jordan - also not internationally recognised) Why have the maps not been updated to show current control? The fact that Israel controls and claims sovereinty in the whole of Jerusalem should be showed by the maps. There was never any acceptance on either side that any part of Jerusalem was part of the other country before '67, yet the city was split on maps, etc. Similarly, places in Northern Cyprus are not shown as being in "Cyprus". It is a fallacy to say the old city is not in Israel. It most certainly is. Whether this fact is internationally recognised or not is a different matter which is a merely an academic point. How can it be left showing parts of Jerusalem being isn any country? As fas as I'm concerned, the whole of Jerusalem is suject to dispute, yet WJ is shown as part of Israel. In addition to the fact that Jordan has renounced its claim, eastern Jerusalem locations should aslo be shown as part of Israael. When areas of this part of the ity come under Palestinian Authority control, they can be described as such. until then, these pales are firmly in Israel. Chesdovi ( talk) 10:39, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
When reaching the light rail stop at damascus gate, they announce in arabic "muhammad Bab al-amud". I didn't see the muhammad part mentioned in the article. Does anyone have idea what Damascus gate has to do with muhammad? pastasauce ( talk) 17:52, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
How does the text added here: [1] accurately describe the events of the 2021 Israel–Palestine crisis? -- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 08:41, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
::Because information on the source specifically talks about what happened in the Damascus Gate during that period. This is not a summary on the entire 2021 crisis, which goes far beyond the scope of this article. Also my first revert was against an IP who is not allowed to edit in ARBPIA in the first place, so my second revert doesn't count as an 1RR violation.
SoaringLL (
talk)
14:09, 22 June 2021 (UTC) (See
Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/יניב_הורון)
David, hi. I've copy-edited the article and took issue with a piece of material. Now I see that it was introduced by you in 2017. Be so kind, could you please explain why you brought in the Lamentations Rabbah quote? For somebody who isn't a scholar of Jewish religion, the quote looks
Here is the passage, which I have taken out from the article until it is clarified:
How is that relevant?
If it was a mistake after all and this passage needs to be left out of this article, it still can be used in other articles about the western sites, such as the Herodian towers next to the predecessor of the Jaffa Gate, the citadel, Herod's royal palace, Shimon Gibson's praetorium gate where Jesus might have been tried by Pilate, in the Old City walls article in the section discussing the western walls, or in any article discussing the 70 CE destruction and the time up to the establishment of Aelia, when, as it seems, the Xth Legion was camped adjacent to the towers and the still standing western city wall (see Hillel Geva etc.). So plenty of other opportunities.
However, then I'd like to pester you with a question of my own: Why would the Divine Presence be on/at the wall of the CITY? Only the eastern city wall corresponds in part with the precinct wall of the TEMPLE, and even there, the Shekhinah is supposed to dwell in the Holy of Holies, or is that a tradition that differs from the position taken by the Midrash Rabbah? Does the Midrash Rabbah see the Divine Presence covering the ENTIRE western part of the city? That would spell serious dialectic trouble, as the entire city AND Temple, which did indeed have its Holy of Holies on its western side, were utterly destroyed. Or does religious logic function in a different way here, maybe there's particular significance given only to the western wall/gate, not to the city quarter and even the Temple compound behind it? If so, this passage, wherever you decide to use it, must be given its very own, more metaphysical, section and needs a clear explanation from a religious pov. Not to mention that that wall and its gates were also totally destroyed, at the very latest by Al-Mu'azzam Isa in 2019, so not a good case for this wall being "decreed in heaven that it should never be destroyed". I need a short guide to the perplexed, so to say.
Thank you, Arminden ( talk) 19:50, 4 January 2022 (UTC)