![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I notice that not a lot is mentioned about white radish in South Asia. Mooli paratha, mooli achar, various sabzis with mooli...it's an important vegetable in India and I'm sure in other parts of South Asia too. It would also be nice to clear up whether South Asian mooli is the same as or different to daikon, as generally mooli is smaller. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Muchosamor ( talk • contribs) 10:32, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
heya Daikon fans, what's up?!?!?!?
you know, I gotta ask, does anyone out there know if you can eat the daikon beans? they look just like sweet peas or soybeans, and I was wondering if they're any good. -Jiesen- July 2004
I was looking at a daikon plant, and saw the beans on it. I want to know if they're edible. At least I assume it's a daikon plant, because I was told that that's what it was. -Jiesen- July 2004
They are seeds, and they are not eaten. — Tokek 2 July 2005 05:57 (UTC)
Well, thanks for clearing that up for me WormRunner. Next time I see a daikon seed pod, I'm going to pickle it, then eat it. -Jiesen- 3:55 pm Pacific, July 21 2006.
The article is in the category Chinese cuisine, but makes no reference to China. Burschik 16:22, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Hey yes you can stir fry daikon seed pods with seasoning and add small chunks of potatoes. It's widely eaten in south Asia. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
69.196.163.2 (
talk)
23:10, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
One sometimes sees "mouli" mentioned in Tibetan recipes -- I believe that this is "daikon" ("mouli leaves" = "daikon greens"). However, Google seems to show more hits for mouli as a Japanese vegetable. Can anybody sort this out? -- 200.141.232.227 01:29, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
I wonder the origin of White Radish? Can somebody throw light on this?
As mentioned in this wiki page, it is known as 1. mooli in Hindi, Punjabi, nepali, bihari, 1.1 moorro (Gujarati), moolah (Bengali) 2. mouli in Tibeatan 3. moo (Korean), 4. monla or something similar in Burmese 5. daikon radish, Japanese or Chinese radish, winter radish, Korean) or 6. lobak, loh bak, lo-bok, or lo bok (Cantonese), labanos (Tagalog), 7. rabu, phakkat-hua, and củ cải trắng (Vietnamese).
It appears that in the indian subcontinent (that is south Asia) and adjoining region (Tibet) and then in Korea, it is referred by similar names: mooli, mouli, moo, monla . Does it mean there is any connection between these names? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.99.238.56 ( talk) 11:25, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
The carrot-shaped Japanese variety is totally white but the Cantonese "lo bak" and Korean "mu" have a green top and a white bottom. The colors of these varieties should be discussed in the article. Badagnani 21:41, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
This type of radish has been known in Europe since at least around 1500. Surely there must be a native English name for it somewhere.
Peter Isotalo 08:28, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
"Winter radish" is listed as an alternate name in the opening paragraph. I think that's a description of common daikon varieties, as radishes are often referred to as summer and winter radishes depending on planting seasons. While some (not all) daikon are commonly considered winter varieties, I don't think "winter radish" is properly a synonymous term. I could be wrong though. Can someone cite a reliable source that it is a synonym? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Agyle ( talk • contribs) 05:55, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
According to Swedish sources I found (including Swedish Wikipedia), this is not a subspecies of Raphanus sativus, but merely a variety (Raphanus sativus var. longipinnatus). On this discussion page there also seem to be some confusion with white variants of the "original" variety (Raphanus sativus var. nigra) of mediterrainian origin. One of the oldest cultivated plants in Europe. I'm not a botanist, but Swedish sources is usually more accurate, then English ones, when it comes to botanical classification, probably because we invented the system ;-). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.252.12.63 ( talk) 16:39, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
The section "Daikon in the arts" was removed, with the comment "formatted poorly, belongs in a different article, poor citation", to which I respond
This is the fourth instance today across various articles, of that particular editor reverting my edits which were in each case attempting to broaden the scope of the article. Such stalking behaviour conflicts with the spirit of WP, and a little more responsibility and respect would be appreciated.
--
Yumegusa (
talk)
16:15, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Terms that become English is treated in the same way as other similar terms. I hastily wrote MoS instead of general guideline. However, Phoenix7777 does not get this point at all. Since he is a newbie according to his registered date, he may not know all necessary things that he should be aware for editing plant-related articles. He insists on using Japanese language in the intro by engaging in edit warring instead of "initiating "discussion", I guess we need to fetch other editors who have been working on similar subjects. Regards.-- Caspian blue 01:37, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
Please take a look at the article "
List of English words of Japanese origin".
There are many English words of Japanese origin in the list and almost all of their articles include Japanese scripts in their lead.
I don't know why you stick to the plant-related articles, however I picked the articles with taxobox from the
List of English words of Japanese origin.
I found eight articles as shown below.
Azuki bean, Daikon, Enokitake, Hijiki, Matsutake, Shiitake, Wakame, Wasabi
All the articles except Shiitake include Japanese scripts in the lead. In the case of Shiitake, it was you who blocked the edit which tried to add a Japanese script to the lead of the article. [2] So, there is neither implicit rule nor explicit guideline to exclude Japanese scripts from a lead of an article about a English word of Japanese origin. ―― Phoenix7777 ( talk) 01:32, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
Please restore the names in East Asian languages that have been blanked repeatedly in unconstructive and non-collegial edits such as this one. Thank you for this consideration, Badagnani ( talk) 22:33, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
When I was growing up (in Toronto, Canada), my (western european) father would every so often bring home some Lo bok. (Our green grocer would give you the same thing if you asked for "white radish" or "Chinese radish".) For grins, I tried looking up Lo bok in Wikipedia, and got redirected to this Daikon page, which didn't mention Lo bok at all. So I googled "Lo bok daikon", and found: http://www.foodsubs.com/Roots.html#daikon which says: daikon = white radish = Japanese radish = Chinese radish = icicle radish = lo bak = loh baak = loh buk = mooli = Oriental radish = lo pak
I didn't think this would for sure meet the criteria for a reference, so I kept looking. There are many informal pages implying that Daikon is another name for Lo bok and vice versa. But two pages caught my eye. One, from the University of California, page at http://sfp.ucdavis.edu/research/AsianVeg/crucifer.htm in the section on Daikon, says: Lo bok is a separate cultivar that may have some green coloration
The other page that caught my eye was: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=123124 because it said: "Lo bok and daikon are only slightly different fron each other and can be used interchangebly. Here's a link to more info on the two: http://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/fo...l/cfo01s03.html"
Since that link was toast, I searched the entire Government of Manitoba site, to see what they had to say. It turns out that they're researching new crops for their province. And... buried in their 2003 report at: http://gov.mb.ca/agriculture/crops/vegetablecrops/pdf/2003_oriental_vegetable_report.pdf they say: "Daikon: (Japanese radish) Approximate days to maturity is 60-70, mature roots average between 30-50 cm in length and 5 -10 cm in diameter depending on variety, and weigh between .5-1.5 kg. Harvest / Storage Information: Care must be taken at harvest to avoid damaging roots which break quite easily. Storage is recommended at 32-34°F and 95-100% relative humidity. Lo Bok: (Chinese Radish) Approximate days to maturity is 35-60, depending on variety. Mature roots average between 10-30 cm in length and 4-5 cm in diameter, weighing anywhere from 40-300 grams again depending on variety. Harvest / Storage Information: Lo Bok varieties are more compact and oval in shape compared to the Daikon varieties. Storage is the same as the Daikon radish."
Clearly they think these are different.
So I tried to research the history of this article as to why Lo bok redirects here, but all I found was a revert war about the unsuitability of including alternate names. Even one of the name references given (note #4), http://www.plantnames.unimelb.edu.au/new/Raphanus.html#longipinnatus points out: "IN CONCLUSION : Because I refuse to believe that the true Japanese daikon is the same as the "Black Spanish winter radish" or the Chinese long green radish", I have proposed some group names for each of those, purely for the sake of separating the groups of common names. In the future taxonomists will have to come up with a distinctive epithet or an official group name to separate each of those from the others. A natural plant that can grow a smooth-white-skinned root with a sweet flesh of up to a meter in diameter cannot be labeled with the same words that would describe a similar plant but with an average-sized rough black skinned-root with the pungency of horseradish, nor with a green-fleshed or red-fleshed small radish from Japan or China. Taxonomists the ball is in your court !"
So......... I don't want to start or restart a flame war.
But, I'm uncomfortable that the Lo bok page redirects here without explanation. Given that many people (references #2 & #3, and whoever created the redirect)) think they're the same, something in this article should say that.
If there weren't an earlier name controversy in this history and discussion page, I would have added a name section with links referencing people who think they're the same, and more links for those who see distinctions between Lo bok and Daikon. (It the only thing I could think of to acknowledge both points of view regarding name equivalence.)
As it stands, we have books written by people with unknown (to me at least) academic qualifications are being used to support a single point of view that doesn't match University and Government publications. And that the University and Government publication viewpoint is absent from the article. (Feels un-neutral to me, but I could be wrong.)
Perhaps one of the people who are adamant against a name section could suggest an alternative? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
216.106.111.142 (
talk)
00:18, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Daikon seems like a varietal name for the group of what the radish is... which is white radish. I know people are going to say this is OR, but I can prove it with pictures and sound... the varieties of radish from the Chinese to the Japanese to the Korean (which are the ones I've experienced so far) range widely within the variety. I think it would be more constructive to move the article to a more general universal name such as "White Radish" rather than putting it under a single sub-varietal name.
For example, Korean version of white radish is not rough to touch (I have pictures. PM me if you want it). Is stout, dense, and halfway green. The most common use is pickling, which means that the radish is much more dense to hold up to large amounts of salting.
Daikon, the Japanese version, has much more water, is much more common in soups than pickling and is also used in braising, the leaves are rough, but aren't as frequently used as in Korean pickling. They also are dried.
And you already have a long explanation for the Chinese variety up there.
It seems to me, this argues that the title of the article is wrong. The group itself should be called "White radish" and then the Korean, Japanese and Chinese versions should be considered sub-varietals since they range in growth and texture. Much like the carrot article isn't called say, "Sweet Nantes" which is a sub varietal.
Objections? Thoughts? If you need the photo PM me, I'm not sure if it would be useful in the article which definitely has a bias towards the Japanese varietal.-- Hitsuji Kinno ( talk) 03:44, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: No move. Cúchullain t/ c 14:27, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
Daikon → White Radish – This article is naturally biased towards the Japanese varietal, even if the Japanese variety did not come first. To remove bias, White Radish is more neutral. I would also be open to mooli as it is a world wide term for the radish, whereas, "daikon" is mostly confined to the United States and Japan. Hitsuji Kinno ( talk) 17:15, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
The name issue has also been extensively debated in the sections above. Please read those for enlightenment. — AjaxSmack 20:52, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Per this edit, this page's usage was established as American English. Kindly maintain it in the absence of any new consensus. — LlywelynII 04:59, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
The USDA Plant Fact Sheet & Plant Guide recently linked have more information on its cultivation, uses, behavior, &c. — LlywelynII 14:02, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
Bailey's original discussion of R. sativus var. longipinnatus is worth a look and could be included to explain some observed differences between daikon and the common radish.
This book has an generally excellent chapter on daikon by Japanese scientists, which distinguishes north & south Chinese forms and the oilseed radish. (Sadly, it misspells oleifer and fails to explain the distinction; oleifer forms still need a treatment here given that they are known as "daikon" but a truly separate variety should have most of its info split off to a separate page like Sakurajima.)
The Larkcom book has a great deal of information still not added about daikon and its Chinese forms. — LlywelynII 01:57, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
LlywelynII, while that plant sheet does include "daikon" as an alternative common name for that variety of plant, I would not extrapolate that to indicate synonymy with other varieties that are also called daikon, or equate it to the term as described in the article opening. This article has undergone a lot of changes recently with extremely poor sourcing for what is a difficult topic to discuss taxonomically, and I think is increasingly including fringe info and excluding more mainstream views.
Also, regarding the foreign names sidebar you added, while it's a very nice layout, it lacks any references, and lists of foreign translations of terms like this seem generally opposed on Wikipedia; the prevailing opnion with WP:PLANTS seems to be that it runs afoul of the "Wikipedia is not a dictionary" principle. There is widespread agreement that it's fine to discuss foreign terms for a specific purpose, for example the English word mooli being derived from the Hindi and Urdu words for radish; it's the list of translations to other languages that is controversial. Agyle ( talk) 22:05, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
I'm open to moving it out of the species box and into a separate section of the article but, even though there are very good authorities who use R. sativus var. longipinnatus (the OED for one), it looks like best scientific practice is still to simply state R. sativus L. for daikon (the foodstuff) and for oilseed radish (the fallow crop). (Google Ngram, meanwhile, doesn't play well with scientific names including "var." It thinks they're the end of the sentence and stops building phrases.)
For the most part, longipinnatus seems a little more common than hortensis for daikon (esp. in non-specialist sources); the oleiferus names show up talking about it as a fallow crop but are not actually talking about a different item (USDA & other databases still list 'daikon' as a vernacular name and display daikon's large white roots); and major varieties like the Sakurajima radish are usually listed as hortensis varieties (not because they are distinct from daikon but because Makino took the trouble of differentiating them using a separate name from Bailey's). So it's a general mess.
My sense is that the people who live with Daikon (Nakai, Makino) take the trouble to distinguish the separate Asian varieties and the people who don't either don't (Bailey) or treat it as only distinct owing to the oil-bearing seeds (Stokes, Persoon). Ideally, humanity would realize that and go with the Japanese and Chinese botanists, but the English-language sources are what they get their hands on more easily. So, for now, let's keep the main bolded name to Linnaeus's and just mention the synonyms as such. — LlywelynII 01:28, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
Is this reference only for Singapore? 胡萝卜means carrot whereas 萝卜means radish. I've never heard anyone in mainland China call this white carrot, and since its literal translation 白萝卜is white radish. There is no carrot in carrot cake I assume is a mistranslation of there is no carrot in turnip cake (or daikon cake.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnip_cake
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I notice that not a lot is mentioned about white radish in South Asia. Mooli paratha, mooli achar, various sabzis with mooli...it's an important vegetable in India and I'm sure in other parts of South Asia too. It would also be nice to clear up whether South Asian mooli is the same as or different to daikon, as generally mooli is smaller. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Muchosamor ( talk • contribs) 10:32, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
heya Daikon fans, what's up?!?!?!?
you know, I gotta ask, does anyone out there know if you can eat the daikon beans? they look just like sweet peas or soybeans, and I was wondering if they're any good. -Jiesen- July 2004
I was looking at a daikon plant, and saw the beans on it. I want to know if they're edible. At least I assume it's a daikon plant, because I was told that that's what it was. -Jiesen- July 2004
They are seeds, and they are not eaten. — Tokek 2 July 2005 05:57 (UTC)
Well, thanks for clearing that up for me WormRunner. Next time I see a daikon seed pod, I'm going to pickle it, then eat it. -Jiesen- 3:55 pm Pacific, July 21 2006.
The article is in the category Chinese cuisine, but makes no reference to China. Burschik 16:22, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Hey yes you can stir fry daikon seed pods with seasoning and add small chunks of potatoes. It's widely eaten in south Asia. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
69.196.163.2 (
talk)
23:10, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
One sometimes sees "mouli" mentioned in Tibetan recipes -- I believe that this is "daikon" ("mouli leaves" = "daikon greens"). However, Google seems to show more hits for mouli as a Japanese vegetable. Can anybody sort this out? -- 200.141.232.227 01:29, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
I wonder the origin of White Radish? Can somebody throw light on this?
As mentioned in this wiki page, it is known as 1. mooli in Hindi, Punjabi, nepali, bihari, 1.1 moorro (Gujarati), moolah (Bengali) 2. mouli in Tibeatan 3. moo (Korean), 4. monla or something similar in Burmese 5. daikon radish, Japanese or Chinese radish, winter radish, Korean) or 6. lobak, loh bak, lo-bok, or lo bok (Cantonese), labanos (Tagalog), 7. rabu, phakkat-hua, and củ cải trắng (Vietnamese).
It appears that in the indian subcontinent (that is south Asia) and adjoining region (Tibet) and then in Korea, it is referred by similar names: mooli, mouli, moo, monla . Does it mean there is any connection between these names? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.99.238.56 ( talk) 11:25, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
The carrot-shaped Japanese variety is totally white but the Cantonese "lo bak" and Korean "mu" have a green top and a white bottom. The colors of these varieties should be discussed in the article. Badagnani 21:41, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
This type of radish has been known in Europe since at least around 1500. Surely there must be a native English name for it somewhere.
Peter Isotalo 08:28, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
"Winter radish" is listed as an alternate name in the opening paragraph. I think that's a description of common daikon varieties, as radishes are often referred to as summer and winter radishes depending on planting seasons. While some (not all) daikon are commonly considered winter varieties, I don't think "winter radish" is properly a synonymous term. I could be wrong though. Can someone cite a reliable source that it is a synonym? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Agyle ( talk • contribs) 05:55, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
According to Swedish sources I found (including Swedish Wikipedia), this is not a subspecies of Raphanus sativus, but merely a variety (Raphanus sativus var. longipinnatus). On this discussion page there also seem to be some confusion with white variants of the "original" variety (Raphanus sativus var. nigra) of mediterrainian origin. One of the oldest cultivated plants in Europe. I'm not a botanist, but Swedish sources is usually more accurate, then English ones, when it comes to botanical classification, probably because we invented the system ;-). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.252.12.63 ( talk) 16:39, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
The section "Daikon in the arts" was removed, with the comment "formatted poorly, belongs in a different article, poor citation", to which I respond
This is the fourth instance today across various articles, of that particular editor reverting my edits which were in each case attempting to broaden the scope of the article. Such stalking behaviour conflicts with the spirit of WP, and a little more responsibility and respect would be appreciated.
--
Yumegusa (
talk)
16:15, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Terms that become English is treated in the same way as other similar terms. I hastily wrote MoS instead of general guideline. However, Phoenix7777 does not get this point at all. Since he is a newbie according to his registered date, he may not know all necessary things that he should be aware for editing plant-related articles. He insists on using Japanese language in the intro by engaging in edit warring instead of "initiating "discussion", I guess we need to fetch other editors who have been working on similar subjects. Regards.-- Caspian blue 01:37, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
Please take a look at the article "
List of English words of Japanese origin".
There are many English words of Japanese origin in the list and almost all of their articles include Japanese scripts in their lead.
I don't know why you stick to the plant-related articles, however I picked the articles with taxobox from the
List of English words of Japanese origin.
I found eight articles as shown below.
Azuki bean, Daikon, Enokitake, Hijiki, Matsutake, Shiitake, Wakame, Wasabi
All the articles except Shiitake include Japanese scripts in the lead. In the case of Shiitake, it was you who blocked the edit which tried to add a Japanese script to the lead of the article. [2] So, there is neither implicit rule nor explicit guideline to exclude Japanese scripts from a lead of an article about a English word of Japanese origin. ―― Phoenix7777 ( talk) 01:32, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
Please restore the names in East Asian languages that have been blanked repeatedly in unconstructive and non-collegial edits such as this one. Thank you for this consideration, Badagnani ( talk) 22:33, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
When I was growing up (in Toronto, Canada), my (western european) father would every so often bring home some Lo bok. (Our green grocer would give you the same thing if you asked for "white radish" or "Chinese radish".) For grins, I tried looking up Lo bok in Wikipedia, and got redirected to this Daikon page, which didn't mention Lo bok at all. So I googled "Lo bok daikon", and found: http://www.foodsubs.com/Roots.html#daikon which says: daikon = white radish = Japanese radish = Chinese radish = icicle radish = lo bak = loh baak = loh buk = mooli = Oriental radish = lo pak
I didn't think this would for sure meet the criteria for a reference, so I kept looking. There are many informal pages implying that Daikon is another name for Lo bok and vice versa. But two pages caught my eye. One, from the University of California, page at http://sfp.ucdavis.edu/research/AsianVeg/crucifer.htm in the section on Daikon, says: Lo bok is a separate cultivar that may have some green coloration
The other page that caught my eye was: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=123124 because it said: "Lo bok and daikon are only slightly different fron each other and can be used interchangebly. Here's a link to more info on the two: http://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/fo...l/cfo01s03.html"
Since that link was toast, I searched the entire Government of Manitoba site, to see what they had to say. It turns out that they're researching new crops for their province. And... buried in their 2003 report at: http://gov.mb.ca/agriculture/crops/vegetablecrops/pdf/2003_oriental_vegetable_report.pdf they say: "Daikon: (Japanese radish) Approximate days to maturity is 60-70, mature roots average between 30-50 cm in length and 5 -10 cm in diameter depending on variety, and weigh between .5-1.5 kg. Harvest / Storage Information: Care must be taken at harvest to avoid damaging roots which break quite easily. Storage is recommended at 32-34°F and 95-100% relative humidity. Lo Bok: (Chinese Radish) Approximate days to maturity is 35-60, depending on variety. Mature roots average between 10-30 cm in length and 4-5 cm in diameter, weighing anywhere from 40-300 grams again depending on variety. Harvest / Storage Information: Lo Bok varieties are more compact and oval in shape compared to the Daikon varieties. Storage is the same as the Daikon radish."
Clearly they think these are different.
So I tried to research the history of this article as to why Lo bok redirects here, but all I found was a revert war about the unsuitability of including alternate names. Even one of the name references given (note #4), http://www.plantnames.unimelb.edu.au/new/Raphanus.html#longipinnatus points out: "IN CONCLUSION : Because I refuse to believe that the true Japanese daikon is the same as the "Black Spanish winter radish" or the Chinese long green radish", I have proposed some group names for each of those, purely for the sake of separating the groups of common names. In the future taxonomists will have to come up with a distinctive epithet or an official group name to separate each of those from the others. A natural plant that can grow a smooth-white-skinned root with a sweet flesh of up to a meter in diameter cannot be labeled with the same words that would describe a similar plant but with an average-sized rough black skinned-root with the pungency of horseradish, nor with a green-fleshed or red-fleshed small radish from Japan or China. Taxonomists the ball is in your court !"
So......... I don't want to start or restart a flame war.
But, I'm uncomfortable that the Lo bok page redirects here without explanation. Given that many people (references #2 & #3, and whoever created the redirect)) think they're the same, something in this article should say that.
If there weren't an earlier name controversy in this history and discussion page, I would have added a name section with links referencing people who think they're the same, and more links for those who see distinctions between Lo bok and Daikon. (It the only thing I could think of to acknowledge both points of view regarding name equivalence.)
As it stands, we have books written by people with unknown (to me at least) academic qualifications are being used to support a single point of view that doesn't match University and Government publications. And that the University and Government publication viewpoint is absent from the article. (Feels un-neutral to me, but I could be wrong.)
Perhaps one of the people who are adamant against a name section could suggest an alternative? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
216.106.111.142 (
talk)
00:18, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Daikon seems like a varietal name for the group of what the radish is... which is white radish. I know people are going to say this is OR, but I can prove it with pictures and sound... the varieties of radish from the Chinese to the Japanese to the Korean (which are the ones I've experienced so far) range widely within the variety. I think it would be more constructive to move the article to a more general universal name such as "White Radish" rather than putting it under a single sub-varietal name.
For example, Korean version of white radish is not rough to touch (I have pictures. PM me if you want it). Is stout, dense, and halfway green. The most common use is pickling, which means that the radish is much more dense to hold up to large amounts of salting.
Daikon, the Japanese version, has much more water, is much more common in soups than pickling and is also used in braising, the leaves are rough, but aren't as frequently used as in Korean pickling. They also are dried.
And you already have a long explanation for the Chinese variety up there.
It seems to me, this argues that the title of the article is wrong. The group itself should be called "White radish" and then the Korean, Japanese and Chinese versions should be considered sub-varietals since they range in growth and texture. Much like the carrot article isn't called say, "Sweet Nantes" which is a sub varietal.
Objections? Thoughts? If you need the photo PM me, I'm not sure if it would be useful in the article which definitely has a bias towards the Japanese varietal.-- Hitsuji Kinno ( talk) 03:44, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: No move. Cúchullain t/ c 14:27, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
Daikon → White Radish – This article is naturally biased towards the Japanese varietal, even if the Japanese variety did not come first. To remove bias, White Radish is more neutral. I would also be open to mooli as it is a world wide term for the radish, whereas, "daikon" is mostly confined to the United States and Japan. Hitsuji Kinno ( talk) 17:15, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
The name issue has also been extensively debated in the sections above. Please read those for enlightenment. — AjaxSmack 20:52, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Per this edit, this page's usage was established as American English. Kindly maintain it in the absence of any new consensus. — LlywelynII 04:59, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
The USDA Plant Fact Sheet & Plant Guide recently linked have more information on its cultivation, uses, behavior, &c. — LlywelynII 14:02, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
Bailey's original discussion of R. sativus var. longipinnatus is worth a look and could be included to explain some observed differences between daikon and the common radish.
This book has an generally excellent chapter on daikon by Japanese scientists, which distinguishes north & south Chinese forms and the oilseed radish. (Sadly, it misspells oleifer and fails to explain the distinction; oleifer forms still need a treatment here given that they are known as "daikon" but a truly separate variety should have most of its info split off to a separate page like Sakurajima.)
The Larkcom book has a great deal of information still not added about daikon and its Chinese forms. — LlywelynII 01:57, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
LlywelynII, while that plant sheet does include "daikon" as an alternative common name for that variety of plant, I would not extrapolate that to indicate synonymy with other varieties that are also called daikon, or equate it to the term as described in the article opening. This article has undergone a lot of changes recently with extremely poor sourcing for what is a difficult topic to discuss taxonomically, and I think is increasingly including fringe info and excluding more mainstream views.
Also, regarding the foreign names sidebar you added, while it's a very nice layout, it lacks any references, and lists of foreign translations of terms like this seem generally opposed on Wikipedia; the prevailing opnion with WP:PLANTS seems to be that it runs afoul of the "Wikipedia is not a dictionary" principle. There is widespread agreement that it's fine to discuss foreign terms for a specific purpose, for example the English word mooli being derived from the Hindi and Urdu words for radish; it's the list of translations to other languages that is controversial. Agyle ( talk) 22:05, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
I'm open to moving it out of the species box and into a separate section of the article but, even though there are very good authorities who use R. sativus var. longipinnatus (the OED for one), it looks like best scientific practice is still to simply state R. sativus L. for daikon (the foodstuff) and for oilseed radish (the fallow crop). (Google Ngram, meanwhile, doesn't play well with scientific names including "var." It thinks they're the end of the sentence and stops building phrases.)
For the most part, longipinnatus seems a little more common than hortensis for daikon (esp. in non-specialist sources); the oleiferus names show up talking about it as a fallow crop but are not actually talking about a different item (USDA & other databases still list 'daikon' as a vernacular name and display daikon's large white roots); and major varieties like the Sakurajima radish are usually listed as hortensis varieties (not because they are distinct from daikon but because Makino took the trouble of differentiating them using a separate name from Bailey's). So it's a general mess.
My sense is that the people who live with Daikon (Nakai, Makino) take the trouble to distinguish the separate Asian varieties and the people who don't either don't (Bailey) or treat it as only distinct owing to the oil-bearing seeds (Stokes, Persoon). Ideally, humanity would realize that and go with the Japanese and Chinese botanists, but the English-language sources are what they get their hands on more easily. So, for now, let's keep the main bolded name to Linnaeus's and just mention the synonyms as such. — LlywelynII 01:28, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
Is this reference only for Singapore? 胡萝卜means carrot whereas 萝卜means radish. I've never heard anyone in mainland China call this white carrot, and since its literal translation 白萝卜is white radish. There is no carrot in carrot cake I assume is a mistranslation of there is no carrot in turnip cake (or daikon cake.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnip_cake