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Who wrote this? There's no signature... can you highlight what exactly you mean by "pro-turkish" by providing some examples? Nargothronde ( talk) 05:44, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
Who ever wrote that this is a totally pro-turkish article, especially the section (Intercommunal violence continued (1963)) he is 100% right. I don't know how was the section of 1963 at the time but now is 100% POV. A POV that incites hatred against Greek Cypriots and a victimhood culture among Turkish Cypriots, a typical hate speech type of POV of the turkish ministry of foreighn affairs. It seems that the turkish ministry of foreighn afairs, has its people here in Wikipedia (I am not surpriced at all by this) to ensure that every NPOV is deleted and that this ludicrus hatred and victimhood POV stays Jazz1972 ( talk) 16:12, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
Needs a lot of attention Aristovoul0s 13:40, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
A.Garnet, are any of Aristovoulos's additions not relevant to the Civil War? No, they all have something to do with it. What you're doing looks like you're trying to maintain a POV fork.-- Domitius 16:57, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Where are the sources for "Cypriot Civil War" that put it between 1963 and 1974. I did a quick check on Google books and the first result says "December 1963-November 1967" ? - Francis Tyers · 22:49, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
- Francis Tyers · 23:16, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Francis, do you understand what is in dispute here? All this is useful background information which you are deleting. Garnet (whether intentionally or unintentionally) has omitted everything which makes the Greek side look "good" and makes the TC look like poor innocent virgins after having been raped. Everything must be presented in context - by taking things out of context I can prove that Hitler was justified in the Holocaust! 17th century or whatever is all relevant - GCs didn't get pissed off at the TCs for no reason. This is one long simultaneous conflict. History is always important, and shortsightedness in history is not an excuse for selective quoting of facts. Niko Silver 23:20, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Francis you're right about the 300-year war implication being dubious, but you are losing your point by making a wholesale revert instead of an edit or a fact tag. The beginning of the conflict should be more specific (I don't know enough about it myself), but it has to be pointed out that the Turkish language and Islam were imported by force in Cyprus, i.e. that the debate's roots go back to foreign invasions, both old and recent. Miskin 23:35, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
What I mean is that it shouldn't be implied that Cyprus was a created during the genesis as a province of the Ottoman Empire, inhabited by Muslim Turks and their "Rum" subjects, unworthy of claiming a modern ethnicity (real Turkish nationalist claim). It has to be pointed out that Cyprus has been a primarily Greek island since Mycenaean times, invaded by Turks or Muslims in the Modern era. All the cards need to be opened up. NPOV isn't about making both sides equally happy or equally unhappy, it's about telling the attested truth in a neutral yet blunt manner. Miskin 23:42, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
I see someone has reverted to the version with date: "17th century - Ongoing as Cyprus dispute" and casus belli: "Turkish Invasion of Cyprus". I hadn't realised that time travel had been added to the achievements of the Ancient Greeks. Or perhaps it is part of the epsilon defence? - Francis Tyers · 23:35, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
In 1954 Turkey said it owns Cyprus
By 1954, the communal leader Dr. Fazil Küçük, was voicing nationalist ideas, spurred perhaps by the growing demand for enosis among Greek Cypriots. The following is from a column he wrote in his own newspaper, Voice of the People, published in Nicosia: “The cause of ceding Cyprus to Britain is still continuing; the time to consider handing back Cyprus to its former owner therefore may not have arrived. But if Great Britain is going to consider this enosis question at all or is going to quit the island she has a legal as well as a moral duty to call Turkey and hand Cyprus back to Turkey, and ask the Turkish government to deal with the enosis problem which the tolerant and ill-advised British administration has fostered in the island. From a legal as well as moral point of view, Turkey, as the initial owner of the island just before the British occupation, has a first option to Cyprus. The matter does not end there. From a worldwide political point of view as well as from geographical and strategical points of view Cyprus must be handed to Turkey if Great Britain is going to quit”. The strategical view of the Turkish Cypriot leader towards the overwhelming Greek populated island of Cyprus is evident by his above statement. Cyprus is treated as lost Ottoman land, and the demands of its population becomes irrelevant. [1]
- Francis Tyers · 23:42, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Let's agree on a good title first. There was a bit of a move war, and this was the alternative title. Francis, what do you think (and I'm aware of it's google performance)?-- Domitius 23:42, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
- Francis Tyers · 23:45, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
I think this could be compressed into one or two paragraphs. Would you be happy then?-- Domitius 00:02, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
This article is not the History of Cyprus mk2, it is not Cyprus dispute mk2, it is not about the "Cyprus problem" - it is about the period of constitutional breakdown and intercommunal violence between 1963-1974 prior to the Turkish Invasion. I have not defined this period myself, it is commonly distinguished as a period of inter-ethnic war prior to the Turkish invasion. It referred to either as "intercommunal conflict", "civil war", "inter-ethnic strife" and so on i.e. it is a distinguishable part of Cyprus's history. If you want to talk about the Ottoman presence, the British administratio, or the EOKA struggle then this should one section only under 'backround', otherwise we will be recreating the Cyprus dispute article again.
Some editors seem to feel that my focusing on this period is to push a Turkish pov, yet their idea of integrating the Greek pov is to go back to Ottoman times which makes no sense whatsoever. If you want to dispute some of the facts, figures or statements i've raised, then do so within the conflict we are actually talking about. If editors want to talk about the history of Cyprus, then take it to the relevant article and we will main it out from here. The background imo should only cover the following:
I mean do you people realise how you've degenerated this article? You've portrayed this conflict as lasting 300 years! None of you have even bothered to fix this discrepancy in the infobox, stating the Turkish invasion of 1974 triggered the conflict in the 17th century (actually Ottomans came 16th century). It shows to me that none of the contributors have any regard in making this a good article, only in working together to push a pov. For this reason, I'm reverting back to my version and any further edits can be discussed like it should have been done from the beginning. -- A.Garnet 20:01, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Can i plesae see the quote from this 'Copeaux' source which talks of Turks being sent to Cyprus. -- A.Garnet 21:37, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Isn't it obvious really.-- Doktor Gonzo 14:57, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
My 'disdain' for Greek Cypriots?! I am the one basing my observation on facts, whilst you are simply throwing rhetoric around my friend. I have no disdain, far from it I have GC friends with whom i've grown up with here in Britain, so I'd ask you stop making these empty generelisations. As for your second point I disagree, I'm not aware a common identity is a pre-requisite for a inter-state conflict to be classed as civil war. -- A.Garnet 12:08, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Greek cypriots killed hundreds of civil Turks in Taskent and Dohni villages in Magosa in 1974 just after Turkish operation. Thanks to Turkey, They freed us from Greek yoke and oppression.
First off I have to say, having dipped my toe into editing Cyprus related articles on wikipedia just recently it is depressing how poor they are. Anyway I am here now and I will try my best to try and help a communal effort to get this article into shape.
It seems to me the first thing we have to get some agreement on is what is the scope of this article. From there we need (in my humble opinion) to decide what the relevant sections of the article should be and what the essential points in each section should be. In this vein I will start with 'Background'. This clearly needs to first section. If we can get some agreement on this then we can move on. Below I will present a list of bullet points that I think should be the scope of the background section, trying to use the guildline of what (facts) in encycolpedic terms would a reader need minimaly to know in order to gain some grasp of the main articles topic.
That to me seems like at least a starting framework for the background section. The point is it should try and provide the basic context in which to understand the main article as briefly as possible and nothing more. I humbly suggest that we first try and agree the 'bullet points' and that if we manage this then hammer out a text for the background section from this agreed points. So feedback would be apprecited on this approach and then on the bullet points themselves.
Erolz
15:32, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Hi erolz. You may want to look at my original version before substantial additions were made. I have tried to be very clear that I only intended this article to deal with the 63-74 period, yet some Greek editors were intent on taking back to 1571 as if we have had 400+ years of intercommunal violence. I made clear that the background should be short and concise, so as not to overlap with the countless other Cyprus articles covering the same thing. Also, perhaps you can comment on what you believe is a good title. I originally titled it Intercommunal violence during the Cyprus conflict, then changed it to Cypriot Civil War, and in the past couple of days Aristov changed it to the present title. I'd appreciate your suggestion. I will let aristov keep title change for the time being, but i'm going to revert his additions to the background which have again become overbloated. Thanks, -- A.Garnet 15:41, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Aristov, you are turning this into a POV fork of History of Cyprus or Cyprus dispute. I will repeat again, 63-74 is a notable period of conflict in Cyprus's history as an independent state. It is academically verified, variously referred to as constitutional breakdown, intercommunal violence, inter-ethnic violence or even civil war. By removing this timeframe and shifting the focus to pre-independence, you are turning this into another pov fork of Cyprus history. For the time being i'm going to leave your expanded edits until a consensus is reached here on how to proceed. I will re-isntate the timeframe however. -- A.Garnet 15:53, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I've got 5 new books all by Greek-Cypriot authors on the subject of the inter-communal violence, some are in Greek, and some are collections of essays. However, these will probably prove useful tools in combatting Turkish racism and POV.-- EOKA-Assasin 06:29, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Good for you. "some are in Greek, some are collection of essays"?? For your 5 books, here are five good reads: WP:RS, WP:ATT, Wikipedia:What is a troll, Help:CheckUser. I would wait one day, give my gift of five articles on your fifth day here, but forgive me, anyway you seem to be somewhat knowledgeable (better than when I was five days old), that cares of the one day. deniz T C 07:31, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
3meander, the articles focus is the conflict of 63-74, having yet another long winded explanation of the roots of the Cyprus problem serves no purpose. That can already be found in Cyprus dispute and Turkish Invasion of Cyprus. If you want to focus on colonial Cyprus, that can be an article of its own, but in this article the period before the conflict should be a concise background to the conflict. -- A.Garnet 13:09, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Image:Tmt.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot ( talk) 02:13, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
As usual, there is so much posturing and racisim and nationalism injected here that it is impossible to follow the main event(s) and the gist of the article. What is missing is a few pictures of the mass graves full of Turkish cypriots and the infomous photo of Dr. Fazil Kucuk's family, machined gunned in a bathtub. A picture is worth a thousand words.-- Murat ( talk) 23:40, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Story of Nihat Ilhan, who is blamed to kill his own family, is not supported by any evidence; it reeks propaganda. And much worse, it is disturbing. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Bozsivri (
talk •
contribs)
22:05, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
This article looks like 3/4ths was written from a Greek POV, 1/4th from a Turkish POV, and 0% from a neutral POV. I will strip away much and try a complete rewrite. I invite other editors to join me. (I notice that similar discussion from 2 years ago petered out. Shame.) Jd2718 ( talk) 03:45, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Language that is used in the article is pro-Greek and even emotional. British police is 'forced' to fire upon Turks, and many like. Moreover, article contains partial interpretations of the editorç Many of the statements are made without reference. Plus, some details are not informative but provocative; such as the conversation of Rauf Denktas and Ahmet Hasan Tahsin. However, most importantly, the fact that the editor blames Nihat İlhan without any citation is disrespectful and disturbing. I never complain about wikipedia articles but his/her language and word choices are disturbingly one-sided. Bozsivri ( talk) 22:29, 24 May 2012 (UTC)bozsivri
This article is totally POV. but not as the previous users have said. I don't know how it used to be in the past, but at this point, this is a totally pro Turkish POV article, in 2015, that is.
I will give two examples.
In the 1963-64: "Bloody Christmas" and Battle of Tillyria section, only Greek Cypriot alleged war crimes are stated in a very POV way. In the Outbreak of intercommunal violence section, only alleged Greek Cypriot propaganda spreading is stated, again in a very POV way.Ron1978 (talk) 22:00, 15 October 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Courtier1978 ( talk • contribs)
What's the deal with calling TMT members terrorists and any Greek fighter a patriot? TheDarkLordSeth ( talk) 16:56, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Totally agree. I am a Greek, but the last section as it stands now is total NPOV. if no concensus on a single narrative may be reached, then it would be better to have 2 sections, one 'GC point of wiew' and one 'TC point of view'. I have never before nagged on wikipedia talk pages, but this article is unacceptable by any standards. Xzar 62.169.220.17 ( talk) 13:04, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
please someone add this photo: http://skyturkvngenc.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/gc3a2vurdan-dostluk-umanlara.jpg to the section "bloody christmas" part Girayhankaya ( talk) 16:18, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
If there are no objections, I plan to Move this article from " Cypriot intercommunal violence" to "Cypriot inter-communal violence", which is proper English. If no one objects, I will do this in eight days. Thank you. GenQuest "Talk to Me" 16:27, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 ( talk) 02:40, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
Cyprus government was in place in 1963-1964. In addition Turkey was active in bombing Cyprus, it wasn't just supporting TMT.
Pampos40 ( talk) 12:28, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
Lets take any discussion about the result column in the infobox here.
Googling for random links supporting your view is a very dishonest practice. If we are going to name victors in an ethnic conflict, at least the proponent should make sure to define what "victory" in such a case means. How did the Greek Cypriots win? Did they defeat the Turkish Cypriots militarily? Politically? In other ways? As stated before, I am not opposed to the claim itself (which may be right), but I do oppose the way it is pressed. If @ User:Courtier1978 could elaborate what "victory" means in this case, perhaps we can have a civilized discussion (unless I immediately agree with you? It's all on you). -- Mikrobølgeovn ( talk) 10:13, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
The sources are mainly from books. They are not random links. The Greek Cypriot victory is well sourced. It is much more well sourced, than the vast majority of the results of conflicts, which are described as victory. What do you mean be a very dishonest practice? If you want to to make a civilized discussion as you are saying, which I accept to make, you shouldn't start with an insult, don't you think.?
Let's proceed with the subject.
Greek Cypriots won militarily, as in the battles, and as in the percentage of the territory that they have controlled and won politically, as they were recognized, as the de jure possessor of the Republic Of Cyprus. The Turkish Cypriots were confined, in an area of just the 3% of the island. That shows a clear victory. I don't see how else the result of this conflict can be added. It is neither a draw nor a Turkish Cypriot victory. It would be a POV to add it as a draw, or a Turkish Cypriot victory, especially if we compare with how other conflicts are described. If this conflict is not added as a Greek-Cypriot victory, it will clearly show a pro-Turkish POV, which does not admit any defeat, its defeats are not described as such but the same does not apply for its victories, and we should delete the word victory from most of the conflicts around the world, since in comparison with most, this is a clear one. How can you add in the result a victory, when small or medium percentages of territory are de facto gained or lost, and not when the one side is just left with the 3% and the other side with all the rest, plus the political recognition as the de jure possessor of the country, plus the winning of the battles? Ron1978 ( talk) 11:57, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
I will answer your questions but first it is fair to say, that, if in every conflict we take it like you are taking it, when there is a Greek Cypriot victory, then no conflict will have a winner and nothing can be added. We add and speak in comparison to what is going on with the rest. Otherwise is POV and attempting to find a way to do not admit a victory, as clear as it is, when the winning side it is not of one's choice, while when the winning side, it is, of one's choice, to do the exact opposite. That is POV. The same applies to other edits. You should ask yourself, are you treating the Turkish victories the same? What was the aim of Turkey when it invaded Cyprus? To create a non-recognized by anyone state? To leave Turkey out of EU? To get a US embargo of weapons for 4 years? To be condemned by the whole international community? To isolate the Turkish Cypriots from the rest of the world?
To answer your question, the US and Greece had tried to unite Cyprus with Greece in the 1960's. First the US with the Acheson plans and then the pro-American Junta of Greece, with 3 coup attempts. The Greek Cypriots didn't accept. Makarios the president of Cyprus by a vast majority popular vote didn't accept. The Greek Cypriots wanted to unite with Greece, much much prior to that in a referendum, when they were a British colony and much before anything had started, and EOKA A wanted to unite with Greece, in the 50's, when Cyprus was a British colony. Some minority pro-union with Greece, Greek Cypriots, allied with Junta of Greece in the coup attempts, against Makarios in the 1970's. Makarios was the president of Cyprus by a vast majority popular vote. The aim of the Greek Cypriots at the time of the Cyprus Inter communal violence, was not the union of Greece, but the defense of the country. They had the political support of both the Soviet states and the Non-aligned movement states, who had no interest on what so ever, to see a Non-aligned country, uniting with a Nato country, especially at a time of a cold war. The Soviet Union even made a statement, that if Turkey was going to invade Cyprus, Cyprus would not be alone. Makarios was accused by a minority of pro-unionists, to be an anti-unionist and always had the vast majority of the popular vote. The Turkish policy at the time, wanted the 34% of Cyprus in a by communal federation and not the 3% in enclaves and with no role in the government. I suggest to read the history of Cyprus extensively and then we can discuss as much as you like. Ron1978 ( talk) 14:20, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
Glad to see a more friendly approach by you two today. I will start answering.
GGT I have never given any POV sources. POV would have being to have a conflict with 2000 thousand civilian casualties from the one side and 200 hundred civilian casualties from the other and state 10 massacres, which all 10 of them, would be blaming the side that has produced the 200 civilian casualties, while the other that has produced the 2000 civilian casualties, to be stated with 0 massacres.
My disagreement with you all of this time, is based on that and that is what I am trying to convince you. That it is fine to add whatever you please, well sourced, if it is proportional and real. NPOV that is and accept the other NPOV versions, coming from other users, with out deleting them. Not only victories for the one side, not only massacres for the one side, but proportional and real for both, according to the real facts and figures. The same applies to to the opinions of other countries and global organizations on the issue, such as the UN, the EU e.t.c. In addition Greek and Turkish Cypriots are having a lot in common, and they are cooperating in many things, which is fair to add in the articles, as I have done both yesterday and in the past. If someone disagrees with some of the sources, then we can discuss about them, but the reason of discussion needs to be having to do with NPOV.
To answer to Mikrobølgeovn I will start from the first inquiry and then I will proceed to the second.
EOKA A, was dissolved, with the independence of Cyprus, and gave its weapons to the government of the Republic of Cyprus. There was no EOKA A in the 1960's. Some of its members became ministers of the government of the Republic of Cyprus, others took government positions, others did something else. It was consider a success and most of them agreed with the independence of Cyprus. Makarios didn't decide alone for the independence. The vast majority of the representatives agreed. Only 4 from the 35 representatives disagreed. Cyprus became a non-aligned country.
TMT prior to the independence was not consider, to be a considerable force. TMT was organized by Turkey and took its weapons from Turkey. Between the first day of the independence and 1963, TMT took 10 thousand weapons from Turkey. TMT didn't differentiated from Turkish policy at no time. Many non-combatants Turkish Cypriots differentiated from TMT a lot, with out even knowing its relationship with Turkey, but not TMT from Turkey. Many of the ones that differentiated, were belonging to the leftist workers union, and were generally leftists. Some of their letters to the UN and Turkey may be still available, if you are interested to see.
The Greek Cypriots at the time took their weapons from Egypt and not from Greece. The Greek Cypriots in 1963 prior to the development of the National Guard in 1964, they were organized in groups of volunteers. The biggest group was called Akritas. So in the 1960's, there was no EOKA A and there was Akritas, plus other minor groups.
In 1974 Turkey aimed to take the airport of Nicosia as well and it didn't succeed. It also aimed to control the rest of Cyprus through a by communal federation, in a deal, that the 17.8% of Turkish Cypriots, would equal the 82.2% of the rest, with different approved and recognized demographics and percentage of Cyprus, than the independence deal, that didn't succeed. The rest are not only Greek Cypriots. There is a small minority of Armenians, Maronites and Latins. Politically Turkey didn't succeed anything.
That deal was and is the aim of Turkey in Cyprus. The two states it is not the first aim of Turkey. It wasn't in the past and it is not now. That is the plan B, if the first aim fails. I can explain the reasons of that aim as well in another discussion. Not all Turkish Cypriots like the occupation. In a matter of fact, Turkish Cypriots are not permitted to enter Turkish barracks, the army is mainly Turkish and there are organizations of Turkish Cypriots, that prefer to be Cypriots than Turkish.
I do not belong to a side, either here, either in any other article. In order to belong to a side, I would need to push POV towards that side. That I don't do. On the contrary, in the articles related to Cyprus, I am adding what the Greek and Turkish Cypriots have in common, adding in the confidence building measures, plus adding NPOV versions, in everything. I will add more, slowly, slowly, in the articles related to Cyprus, since there is a lot of material to be covered, in an NPOV manner and then everyone can see it and discuss it, if they believe that they need to add or change anything. If their versions are NPOV, I do not mind, either I do mind if there is one, or many editing. However when someone says that today is November 2015 and someone else says that is November 3030, then we don't have either 2515, either 3030. From the other hand if one comes and says today we have 1st of November, then another comes and says the hour, then another comes and says we have a time difference between this country and the other, then someone comes and describes a picture as he/she pleases and that description to be NPOV, then I can agree with all of them, but I can not agree that we have 2515, or 3030 because we don't. I don't mind that you two are pro-Turkish. I don't mind if you decide to deny it as well. If you come with NPOV versions, in the articles, and let anyone else adding their own NPOV, then it is totally fine with me, since then the articles will evolve naturally fine. I hope you both understand my point of view.
I hope we will have a very positive cooperation from now on:) Ron1978 ( talk) 19:55, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Cypriot intercommunal violence/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
==Assessed as Start Class==
This article is a good start, but it has some grammatical errors:
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The "Crisis of 1963–64" section is strongly pro-Greek Cypriot POV pushing and anti-Turkish Cypriot POV pushing, and the sources contain unverifiable information and claims. It is also written in an incredibly opinionated narrative, with the majority of the text concentrating on pushing said POVs with inconsistent and irrelevant information, much of which has not included very very robust references to link that logic between what they are narrating and the actual "Crisis of 1963–64". To be better informed, see [2]
And on this subject:
This type of strong pro-Greek Cypriot POV pushing and strong anti-Turkish Cypriot POV pushing really needs to be stopped.
The Greek Cypriot police operating within the old Venetian walls of Nicosia demanded to see the identification papers of some Turkish Cypriots who were returning home from an evening out, who when attempting to search the women in the car, were objected to by the taxi driver, and a discussion ensued [8] before word of the incident quickly spread and a hostile crowd gathered. [9] Then the police officers called for reinforcements (from Paphos Gate), one of whom arrived, took out his gun, and shot and killed the taxi driver and his (now ex) girlfriend. [10].
What does the TMT (which was created to counter EOKA), Turkey (which reluctantly supported TMT), and the angry Turkish Cypriot crowds have to do with somehow being involved in a bizarre conspiracy that Turkey had greater plans in Cyprus? (Even though with the Turkish intervention this has been proven to definitely not be the case, where even the strongest of its critics must agree, as do its observers: "Turkey intervened to protect the lives and property of the Turkish-Cypriots, and to its credit it has done just that. In the 12 years (now decades) since, there have been no killings and no massacres" - Lord Willis (Labor) told the House of Lords on Dec. 17, 1986).
Like with how the Greek Cypriots are guilty of attempted genocide but no action has ever been taken against them, and instead they have been rewarded by recognition as the government of all Cyprus, these types of strong pro-Greek Cypriot POV pushers and anti-Turkish Cypriot POV pushers are exploiting that political expediency to make baseless assertions and spoil Wikipedia, with assertions comparable to those made by Mr. Christides (May 10, 1999), that there was no ethnic cleansing or attempted genocide of Turkish Cypriots by Greek Cypriots.
Until these people come to terms with the appalling behaviour of the Greek Cypriot community toward the Turkish Cypriot community and stop trying to persuade themselves and the world that each side was as much to blame as the other, there will be no reconciliation in Cyprus. And so long as there are so many strong pro-Greek Cypriot POV pushers and strong anti-Turkish Cypriot POV pushers, Wikipedia will continue to riddled with selective disinformation on this issue.
This needs to be stopped right now. Nargothronde ( talk) 04:43, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
References
The rise of Turkish nationalism among the Turkish Cypriots can be largely seen as a response to the Greek Cypriot national "awakening" and campaign for union with Greece.
The Turkish Cypriot nationalism developed mainly in reaction to the Greek Cypriot national desire for union with Greece.
Greek Cypriots engaged in a military campaign for enosis, union with Greece. Turkish Cypriots, in response, expressed their desire for taksim, partition of the island.
It is the exact opposite that is happenning. One should just look at the facts and figures of the case and the related cases, and compare it with what it is said in the article and of what the first user is saying, to realize how pro turkish POV they are, to the point to inciting hatred against Greek Cypriots and a victimhood culture in Turkish Cypriots, while the second user is already banned form the Greek version of Wikipedia Jazz1972 ( talk) 19:54, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
Speaking the one that thinks that there was going to be a Turkish Cypriot genocide in Cyprus and that there was even a plan for that.:) You do not have a single clue about the case, and you are repeating the turkish side's fanatical war propaganda, that was debunked by the turkish officials themselves. You are a very poor POV user, that incites hatred against Greek Cypriots and a victimhood culture in Turkish Cypriots. If you want to improve start reading non propaganda and non turkish sources and stop being a fanatic. Don't expect to respong to this ludicrus comments of yours, if you don't come with NPOV comments and don't expect to pass this pretending a soft way to do it, like you are doing in your second response. You are making it even more ludicrus like that Jazz1972 ( talk) 09:36, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
Cinadon36 You are even banned from the Greek version of Wikipedia. What exactly are you doing here? Jazz1972 ( talk) 11:13, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
Whoever agree with the concencus made by RON in the results sections of the talk page, can write it here in order to start adding the NPOV version of it. I will participate in serious discussions with serious NPOV users. Jazz1972 ( talk) 15:47, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
"Greek Cypriot official discourse, still reflected in history textbooks, follows a denialist [2] approach to Bloody Christmas. According to this narrative, the Republic of Cyprus faced a "Turkish mutiny" (Tourkantarsia). As such, Greek Cypriots are presented as the victims of Turkish Cypriot aggression, whereas the majority of the victims were Turkish Cypriot. [2] This was used by the Republic of Cyprus to legitimise human rights violations against Turkish Cypriots, the suspension of their political rights, and, until 2003, the exclusion of Turkish Cypriots from the framing of the missing people by the Republic of Cyprus. [3] [2] In 2004, Greek Cypriot leader Tassos Papadopoulos said in an interview that no Turkish Cypriots were killed between 1963 and 1974. Reaction to this claim appeared in the Greek and Turkish Cypriot media, [4] with Greek Cypriot media calling Papadopoulos's claim a blatant lie. [5] [6]. The use of the term "mutiny" to describe the events of 1963–64 has contributed to a Greek Cypriot master narrative that the Cyprus problem started in 1974. Under this, Greek Cypriot and Armenian Cypriot people displaced in 1963-64 are not classified as "refugees" but as "those struck by the Turks" (Tourkoplihtoi). [2] [3] [7]". And before you start thinking too much, I think it would also do you good to know that the section is titled "Denial", as in denial generally speaking from wherever it's coming from, not specifically "Greek Cypriot denial" or "Turkish Cypriot denial", but just denial, and unfortunately for you, wherever it does exist on whatever side of or away from the island, it's most evidently present in Greek Cypriot education and society, as this section of the article also clearly demonstrates. That's just a fact. Nargothronde ( talk) 01:05, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
References
Serious NPOV users I said. The poor POV ones that are inciting hatred against Greek Cypriots and a victimhood culture among Turkish Cypriots are the problem and not the solution. The ones that are pretending to be the mediators, while being with them, the same and worst. Do not think that I don't know what is going on here Jazz1972 ( talk) 06:40, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
I have removed the source added by Nargothronde here and instead added a {{ citation needed}}-tag to the original text. The given source says nothing about "self-determination", neither for the "Cypriot people" nor for the "Greek Cypriot people". The fact that only Greek Cypriots voted in a referendum in 1950 can not throw any light on how Greek Cypriots felt about the Turkish position in the UN discussions after August 1954. The text about "self-determination of the Cypriot people" will, however, need a source or be deleted – as would "self-determination of the Greek Cypriot people". -- T*U ( talk) 16:24, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
Greek Cypriots felt that this position paid little respect to the 1950 referendum.??? Nargothronde ( talk) 10:11, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
Can anyone here name me those 103 villages? Jazz1972 ( talk) 10:49, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
war propaganda", this is referenced in a number of different sources, both contemporary during those events and now. You can try to find them yourself, or present a case on the Talk page for discussion, supported by reliable sources, instead of attacking other users and making baseless and demeaning accusations, simply because they do not conform to your own POV. Using bullying tactics and rhetoric will not work and is against the Wikipedia guidelines. See: WP:POVRAILROAD... nothing should justify trying to create a hostile environment here. Needless to say, they will just ultimately be ignored. And as IamNotU said, you need to present a clear case. This is not a platform to push POVs or original ideas. See: WP:NPOV and WP:OR. Nargothronde ( talk) 10:56, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
So not a single one, can mention the 103 villages from the ones that are pushing this POV, lie and war propaganda, here and all false politcs are used by them in order to enforce it. You can imagine my shock:). Jazz1972 ( talk) 11:10, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
Jazz1972, Cinadon36, and Nargothronde, I'd like to politely remind all of you that article talk pages are exclusively for talking about how to improve the article. They are not the place to discuss peoples' behavior. If another editor's behavior disturbs you, please talk to them about it on their talk page, ask an admin, open an ANI report, or better yet, just ignore it, and focus on the text of the article and solving any problems with it. Jazz1972, are you interested in discussing this, or not? If so, could you please try to help me understand exactly what the problem is? Do you think that some villages were attacked, but less than 103? Or no villages were attacked? Or the Turkish Cypriots attacked their own villages, or what? If the information in the source is incorrect (people do make mistakes sometimes) then what is the correct information? And, most importantly, how do you know? Where can we find published information that says something different? -- IamNotU ( talk) 15:34, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
J. Welfare of displaced persons and rehabilitation of housing
177. As indicated in my report of 15 June 1964, the disturbances of December 1963 had resulted in the total or partial destruction of many dwellings, a high proportion of them simple homes whose owners would be but slightly able to fend for themselves. This tended in many localities to create or to aggravate a refugee problem, as the owners of these houses and their families fled to safer areas where many of them lived in temporary camps in precarious conditions.
180. UNFICYP carried out a detailed survey of all damage to properties throughout the island during the disturbances, including the Tylliria fighting. It shows that in 109 villages, most of them Turkish Cypriot or mixed villages, 527 houses have been destroyed while 2,000 others have suffered damage from looting. In Ktima 38 houses and shops have been destroyed totally and 122 partially. In the Omorphita suburb of Nicosia 50 houses have been totally destroyed while a further 240 have been partially destroyed there and in adjacent suburbs.
181. The results of the survey are set forth in great detail in a report which was recently submitted by UNFICYP to both the Cyprus Government and the Turkish Cypriot leaders. [...]
190. [...] The trade of the Turkish community had considerably declined during the period, due to the existing situation, and unemployment reached a very high level as approximately 25,000 Turkish Cypriots had become refugees. [...]
References
Let's ask again. Can anyone here name those 103 villages, that were supposedy got attacked? If no, then why do you want this POV propaganda narrative here? The whole article is a POV propaganda narrative by the way, as explained in another section of the talk page Jazz1972 ( talk) 16:10, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
Here we go again...I suggest we close this discussion. Jazz1972 failed to back his opinion with evidence. Cinadon36 ( talk) 16:27, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
War is peace ignorance is strength...you can imagine my shock...Lol!!! Can anyone I repeat from the ones that they push this POV propaganda narrative of the 103 villages, and want it to be enforced here, name those 103 villages? Jazz1972 ( talk) 17:44, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
Ortega report - Survey May-July 1964 - 109 villages plus Omorphita (Nicosia) and Ktima NICOSIA DISTRICT 1. Akaki 2. Aredhiou 3. Argaki 4. Ayia Marina (Skyllouras) 5. Ayios Epiphanios 6. Ayios Sozornenos 7. Ayios Vassilios 8. Ayios Yeoryios (Soleas ) 9. Bey Keuy 10. Chumlekdji 11. Dhali 12. Dheftera, Kato 13. Dhenia 14. Eliophotes 15. Eylenja 16. Korakou 17. Koutraphas, Pano 18. Lakatamia, Kato 19. Linou 20. Margi 21. Mathiati 22. Morphou 23. Neokhorio 24. Nisou 25. Omorphita 26. Orounda 27. Palekythro 28. Peristerona 29. Petra 30. Phlassou, Pano 31. Potamia 32. Pyroi 33. Skylloura 34. Tymbou 35. Xeros and Karavostassi 36. Bimbazhi KYRENIA DISTRICT 1. Ayios Epiktitos 2. Ayios Yeoryios 3. Dhiorios 4. Kazaphani 5. Lapithos 6. Liveras 7. Trapeza 8. Vasilia 9. Vavilas 10. Hazreti Omer FAMAGUSTA DISTRICT 1. Arnadhi 2. Ayios Theodhoros 3. Pyrga 4. Vitsadha 5. Piyi LARNACA DISTRICT 1. Alethriko 2. Anaphotia 3. Anglissidhes 4. Aplanda 5. Ayia Anna 6. Kalavasos 7. Lefkara, Pano 8. Maroni 9. Meneou 10. Perivolia 11. Petrophani 12. Pyrga 13. Sophadhes 14. Zyyi LIMASSOL DISTRICT 1. Anoyira 2. Asomatos 3. Cherkez 4. Kilani 5. Kividhes, Kato 6. Kolnssi 7. Mallia 8. Mathikoloni 9. Moniatis 10. Phasoula 11. Pissouri 12. Polemidhia (Kato and Pano) 13. Prastio 14. Siliknu 15. Trakhona 16. Yerovasa 17. Amiandos Pano PAPHOS DISTRICT 1. Akhelia 2. Akoursos 3. Asproyia 4. Ayios lsidhoros 5. Ayios Yeorgios 6. Galataria 7. Karamoul lidhes 8. Kato Paphos 9. Kedhares lO. Khoulou 11. Khrysokhou 12. Kithasi 13. Kourtaka 14. Kritou Terra 15. Ktima 16. Lapithiou 17. Lemba 18. Loukrounou 19. Mamoundali 20. Pano Arkhimantlrita 21. Phalia 22. Phasli 23. Phasoula 24. Pitargou 25. Polis 26. Prastio 27. Prodhromi 28. Yernskipos 29. Ayia Marina
Addendum - Survey August 1 to August 17, 1964 - additional 12 entries NICOSIA DISTRICT 1. Alevga 2. Ay Theodhoros 3. Kato Pyrgos 4. Kokkina 5. Mansoura 6. Fano Pyrgos 7. Piyenia/Khaleri 8. Selain t'Api PAPHOS DISTRICT 1. Ayia Marina 2. Pakhyammos 3. Polis 4. Pomos
Since now we have names of villages at last and the admission from one user that he is not claiming that those were attacked, (they weren't) can anyone else here, provide with the attacks on these villages, as the propaganda POV narrative says.? In addition is any user here, that wants this POV propaganda narrative to remain? Jazz1972 ( talk) 19:32, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
How many of these villages have Greek names and how many Turkish names? Do the Greek Cypriots attacked their own villages? You have already admited that the 103 villages were not attacked both of you by the way, the one way or the other and undoublty, while no one of you seems to want to remove the 103 villages war propaganda and add the NPOV information and both of you have deleted the NPOV information and added the 103 villages war propaganda. Jazz1972 ( talk) 21:45, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
From 1959 the turkish government was sending weapons and officers to TMT in Cyprus in order to implement its plan for Cyprus, a plan that the UN has declined. A ship was caught full of weapons by the British and send back. By 1963 10 thousand weapons are believed to have arrived in Cyprus at the hands of TMT. The plan of action, was for the Turkish Cypriots to attack and the turkish troops to invade. The Greek Cypriots having being informed, went to the Greek goverment of Karamanlis and Averof and asked for weapons. The Greek government declined their request., and
Armed Turkish Cypriots took control of areas in Cyprus and started shooting at Greek Cypriot civilians. Greek Cypriots with mainly home made weapons, confronted them and took control of some of these areas.Other statements failed verification and were not contained in the given source, such as where you changed this:
Eric Solsten described the events as "a Greek Cypriot police patrol, ostensibly checking identification documents, stopped a Turkish Cypriot couple on the edge of the Turkish quarter. A hostile crowd gathered, shots were fired, and two Turkish Cypriots were killed."and you re-wrote the quote of the source to say instead:
a Greek Cypriot police patrol, checked a turkish cypriot car to see if they had weapons, in the area of St. Casianos in Nicosia. A hostile Turkish Cypriot crowd gathered, attacked the patrol, shots were fired, and two Turkish Cypriots were killed."- that is not contained in the source. If you fail to follow the most basic Wikipedia rules of verifiability, you can't accuse others of a conspiracy to censor you. -- IamNotU ( talk) 22:37, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
From 1959 the turkish government was sending weapons and officers to TMT in Cyprus in order to implement its plan for Cyprus, a plan that the UN has declined. I don't think it's worth dignifying Jazz1972 with any further response on the matter. They won't try to verify anything. They are just trying to waste their and everybody else's time by making baseless accusations and violating so many of Wikipedia's guidelines. Most have already been mentioned above. I agree with Cinadon36 that we simply close this Talk. Nargothronde ( talk) 04:15, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Just a note, some Turkish-Cypriot villages do have a greek name. The reason could be that the poppulation of the village converted sometime, or because it's population has been replaced in a way or another. Cinadon36 ( talk) 06:51, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Still not able to prove your point as I see. Almost all of these villages have Greek names. How can almost all the names of the villages be Greek, if not Greek? Did the Greeks attacked their own villages? If more than 100 villages were attacked, would the casualties of 1963 be that few.? So what was the case, 2 people per village the casualties? Jazz1972 ( talk) 22:53, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
References
Jazz1972, I've removed the "undue weight section" templates for now, since you haven't given any explanation for them in your edit summaries. You've said that you've already explained on the talk page, but I can't find the words "undue weight" anywhere here. I'm not able to understand what you mean, or what previous discussion, in the many pages above, you might be talking about.
The "undue weight" (article version) template documentation says:
Could you please explain specifically what the problem with the sections you've marked are? What exactly is there "too much detail" about? What fringe or "non-important content" is there too much focus on? -- IamNotU ( talk) 00:10, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
I will explain in details, soon Jazz1972 ( talk) 11:11, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
Lets start from section 1963. All NPOV information is getting deleted chronically. All the reactions by all countries as well. The reactions of the Soviet Union, the United States and the Non-Aligned movement among others. All the role of the turkish goverment is getting deleted as well. How convinient:) The only two things that stay, is a war propaganda allegation against Greek-Cypriots of crimes that have never being commited, and no one here that pushes this POV propaganda narrative, can prove any of them, including the 103 villages and the war propaganda allegation, that the whole case was a Greek-Cypriot attack, while in reality it was exactly the opposite. The POV propaganda narrative is exactly the same, as the one of the turkish goverment. You can imagine my shock:) Chronic team work on enforcing this propaganda POV narrative, is constantly taking place by anti-Greek-Cypriot POV users and admins. All NPOV users have been chronically banned, while all the POV ones, are chronically immuned. Jazz1972 ( talk) 14:20, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
You can imagine my shock:D Jazz1972 ( talk) 16:01, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
War is peace ignorance is strength...You can imagine my shock!!Lol!!! Lets go again. Can anyone see the NPOV information that I am talking about in the section of 1963? No they don't exept if they go back to the NPOV versions that were immediately deleted!!! Can anyone see the POV propaganda narrative that I am talking about? Yes everybody can. The ones that do not want the NPOV information to be here and are deleting it, is it because they don't like the sources of the NPOV users that have tried to add it until now, such as the UN and the library of congress that is? Can anyone that pushes the POV propaganda narrative here, while deleting all the NPOV information, name the 103 vilages of the POV propaganda narrative? If not why are you pushing it and why are you deleting all the NPOV information? Jazz1972 ( talk) 18:05, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
The case is very obvious and very simple. It would be discussable in one, two points only, if the POV was 2% nd not 100% and the NPOV users were 9 to 10 here and not all banned. War is peace, ignorance is strength, doesn't help. I told you from the start that I know what is going on here. I don't know a bit, I actually know and I am not the only one. Do you think that either me or anyone else, will be tricked by any type of politics? The real question is this. Are you going to finally let the actual and complete NPOV versions to take place here and in the rest of the articles about Cyprus, or do you prefer a much bigger reaction? Jazz1972 ( talk) 22:05, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
Arguments are to be found in the last two sections of the talk page before this. Jazz1972 ( talk) 22:24, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
Yu didn't get any consensus on removing it from me. So it is back on Jazz1972 ( talk) 22:44, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
Have a look at Wikipedia rules. You are not following a single one of them Jazz1972 ( talk) 22:46, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
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Who wrote this? There's no signature... can you highlight what exactly you mean by "pro-turkish" by providing some examples? Nargothronde ( talk) 05:44, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
Who ever wrote that this is a totally pro-turkish article, especially the section (Intercommunal violence continued (1963)) he is 100% right. I don't know how was the section of 1963 at the time but now is 100% POV. A POV that incites hatred against Greek Cypriots and a victimhood culture among Turkish Cypriots, a typical hate speech type of POV of the turkish ministry of foreighn affairs. It seems that the turkish ministry of foreighn afairs, has its people here in Wikipedia (I am not surpriced at all by this) to ensure that every NPOV is deleted and that this ludicrus hatred and victimhood POV stays Jazz1972 ( talk) 16:12, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
Needs a lot of attention Aristovoul0s 13:40, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
A.Garnet, are any of Aristovoulos's additions not relevant to the Civil War? No, they all have something to do with it. What you're doing looks like you're trying to maintain a POV fork.-- Domitius 16:57, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Where are the sources for "Cypriot Civil War" that put it between 1963 and 1974. I did a quick check on Google books and the first result says "December 1963-November 1967" ? - Francis Tyers · 22:49, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
- Francis Tyers · 23:16, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Francis, do you understand what is in dispute here? All this is useful background information which you are deleting. Garnet (whether intentionally or unintentionally) has omitted everything which makes the Greek side look "good" and makes the TC look like poor innocent virgins after having been raped. Everything must be presented in context - by taking things out of context I can prove that Hitler was justified in the Holocaust! 17th century or whatever is all relevant - GCs didn't get pissed off at the TCs for no reason. This is one long simultaneous conflict. History is always important, and shortsightedness in history is not an excuse for selective quoting of facts. Niko Silver 23:20, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Francis you're right about the 300-year war implication being dubious, but you are losing your point by making a wholesale revert instead of an edit or a fact tag. The beginning of the conflict should be more specific (I don't know enough about it myself), but it has to be pointed out that the Turkish language and Islam were imported by force in Cyprus, i.e. that the debate's roots go back to foreign invasions, both old and recent. Miskin 23:35, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
What I mean is that it shouldn't be implied that Cyprus was a created during the genesis as a province of the Ottoman Empire, inhabited by Muslim Turks and their "Rum" subjects, unworthy of claiming a modern ethnicity (real Turkish nationalist claim). It has to be pointed out that Cyprus has been a primarily Greek island since Mycenaean times, invaded by Turks or Muslims in the Modern era. All the cards need to be opened up. NPOV isn't about making both sides equally happy or equally unhappy, it's about telling the attested truth in a neutral yet blunt manner. Miskin 23:42, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
I see someone has reverted to the version with date: "17th century - Ongoing as Cyprus dispute" and casus belli: "Turkish Invasion of Cyprus". I hadn't realised that time travel had been added to the achievements of the Ancient Greeks. Or perhaps it is part of the epsilon defence? - Francis Tyers · 23:35, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
In 1954 Turkey said it owns Cyprus
By 1954, the communal leader Dr. Fazil Küçük, was voicing nationalist ideas, spurred perhaps by the growing demand for enosis among Greek Cypriots. The following is from a column he wrote in his own newspaper, Voice of the People, published in Nicosia: “The cause of ceding Cyprus to Britain is still continuing; the time to consider handing back Cyprus to its former owner therefore may not have arrived. But if Great Britain is going to consider this enosis question at all or is going to quit the island she has a legal as well as a moral duty to call Turkey and hand Cyprus back to Turkey, and ask the Turkish government to deal with the enosis problem which the tolerant and ill-advised British administration has fostered in the island. From a legal as well as moral point of view, Turkey, as the initial owner of the island just before the British occupation, has a first option to Cyprus. The matter does not end there. From a worldwide political point of view as well as from geographical and strategical points of view Cyprus must be handed to Turkey if Great Britain is going to quit”. The strategical view of the Turkish Cypriot leader towards the overwhelming Greek populated island of Cyprus is evident by his above statement. Cyprus is treated as lost Ottoman land, and the demands of its population becomes irrelevant. [1]
- Francis Tyers · 23:42, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Let's agree on a good title first. There was a bit of a move war, and this was the alternative title. Francis, what do you think (and I'm aware of it's google performance)?-- Domitius 23:42, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
- Francis Tyers · 23:45, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
I think this could be compressed into one or two paragraphs. Would you be happy then?-- Domitius 00:02, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
This article is not the History of Cyprus mk2, it is not Cyprus dispute mk2, it is not about the "Cyprus problem" - it is about the period of constitutional breakdown and intercommunal violence between 1963-1974 prior to the Turkish Invasion. I have not defined this period myself, it is commonly distinguished as a period of inter-ethnic war prior to the Turkish invasion. It referred to either as "intercommunal conflict", "civil war", "inter-ethnic strife" and so on i.e. it is a distinguishable part of Cyprus's history. If you want to talk about the Ottoman presence, the British administratio, or the EOKA struggle then this should one section only under 'backround', otherwise we will be recreating the Cyprus dispute article again.
Some editors seem to feel that my focusing on this period is to push a Turkish pov, yet their idea of integrating the Greek pov is to go back to Ottoman times which makes no sense whatsoever. If you want to dispute some of the facts, figures or statements i've raised, then do so within the conflict we are actually talking about. If editors want to talk about the history of Cyprus, then take it to the relevant article and we will main it out from here. The background imo should only cover the following:
I mean do you people realise how you've degenerated this article? You've portrayed this conflict as lasting 300 years! None of you have even bothered to fix this discrepancy in the infobox, stating the Turkish invasion of 1974 triggered the conflict in the 17th century (actually Ottomans came 16th century). It shows to me that none of the contributors have any regard in making this a good article, only in working together to push a pov. For this reason, I'm reverting back to my version and any further edits can be discussed like it should have been done from the beginning. -- A.Garnet 20:01, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Can i plesae see the quote from this 'Copeaux' source which talks of Turks being sent to Cyprus. -- A.Garnet 21:37, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Isn't it obvious really.-- Doktor Gonzo 14:57, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
My 'disdain' for Greek Cypriots?! I am the one basing my observation on facts, whilst you are simply throwing rhetoric around my friend. I have no disdain, far from it I have GC friends with whom i've grown up with here in Britain, so I'd ask you stop making these empty generelisations. As for your second point I disagree, I'm not aware a common identity is a pre-requisite for a inter-state conflict to be classed as civil war. -- A.Garnet 12:08, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Greek cypriots killed hundreds of civil Turks in Taskent and Dohni villages in Magosa in 1974 just after Turkish operation. Thanks to Turkey, They freed us from Greek yoke and oppression.
First off I have to say, having dipped my toe into editing Cyprus related articles on wikipedia just recently it is depressing how poor they are. Anyway I am here now and I will try my best to try and help a communal effort to get this article into shape.
It seems to me the first thing we have to get some agreement on is what is the scope of this article. From there we need (in my humble opinion) to decide what the relevant sections of the article should be and what the essential points in each section should be. In this vein I will start with 'Background'. This clearly needs to first section. If we can get some agreement on this then we can move on. Below I will present a list of bullet points that I think should be the scope of the background section, trying to use the guildline of what (facts) in encycolpedic terms would a reader need minimaly to know in order to gain some grasp of the main articles topic.
That to me seems like at least a starting framework for the background section. The point is it should try and provide the basic context in which to understand the main article as briefly as possible and nothing more. I humbly suggest that we first try and agree the 'bullet points' and that if we manage this then hammer out a text for the background section from this agreed points. So feedback would be apprecited on this approach and then on the bullet points themselves.
Erolz
15:32, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Hi erolz. You may want to look at my original version before substantial additions were made. I have tried to be very clear that I only intended this article to deal with the 63-74 period, yet some Greek editors were intent on taking back to 1571 as if we have had 400+ years of intercommunal violence. I made clear that the background should be short and concise, so as not to overlap with the countless other Cyprus articles covering the same thing. Also, perhaps you can comment on what you believe is a good title. I originally titled it Intercommunal violence during the Cyprus conflict, then changed it to Cypriot Civil War, and in the past couple of days Aristov changed it to the present title. I'd appreciate your suggestion. I will let aristov keep title change for the time being, but i'm going to revert his additions to the background which have again become overbloated. Thanks, -- A.Garnet 15:41, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Aristov, you are turning this into a POV fork of History of Cyprus or Cyprus dispute. I will repeat again, 63-74 is a notable period of conflict in Cyprus's history as an independent state. It is academically verified, variously referred to as constitutional breakdown, intercommunal violence, inter-ethnic violence or even civil war. By removing this timeframe and shifting the focus to pre-independence, you are turning this into another pov fork of Cyprus history. For the time being i'm going to leave your expanded edits until a consensus is reached here on how to proceed. I will re-isntate the timeframe however. -- A.Garnet 15:53, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I've got 5 new books all by Greek-Cypriot authors on the subject of the inter-communal violence, some are in Greek, and some are collections of essays. However, these will probably prove useful tools in combatting Turkish racism and POV.-- EOKA-Assasin 06:29, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Good for you. "some are in Greek, some are collection of essays"?? For your 5 books, here are five good reads: WP:RS, WP:ATT, Wikipedia:What is a troll, Help:CheckUser. I would wait one day, give my gift of five articles on your fifth day here, but forgive me, anyway you seem to be somewhat knowledgeable (better than when I was five days old), that cares of the one day. deniz T C 07:31, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
3meander, the articles focus is the conflict of 63-74, having yet another long winded explanation of the roots of the Cyprus problem serves no purpose. That can already be found in Cyprus dispute and Turkish Invasion of Cyprus. If you want to focus on colonial Cyprus, that can be an article of its own, but in this article the period before the conflict should be a concise background to the conflict. -- A.Garnet 13:09, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Image:Tmt.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
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BetacommandBot ( talk) 02:13, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
As usual, there is so much posturing and racisim and nationalism injected here that it is impossible to follow the main event(s) and the gist of the article. What is missing is a few pictures of the mass graves full of Turkish cypriots and the infomous photo of Dr. Fazil Kucuk's family, machined gunned in a bathtub. A picture is worth a thousand words.-- Murat ( talk) 23:40, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Story of Nihat Ilhan, who is blamed to kill his own family, is not supported by any evidence; it reeks propaganda. And much worse, it is disturbing. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Bozsivri (
talk •
contribs)
22:05, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
This article looks like 3/4ths was written from a Greek POV, 1/4th from a Turkish POV, and 0% from a neutral POV. I will strip away much and try a complete rewrite. I invite other editors to join me. (I notice that similar discussion from 2 years ago petered out. Shame.) Jd2718 ( talk) 03:45, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Language that is used in the article is pro-Greek and even emotional. British police is 'forced' to fire upon Turks, and many like. Moreover, article contains partial interpretations of the editorç Many of the statements are made without reference. Plus, some details are not informative but provocative; such as the conversation of Rauf Denktas and Ahmet Hasan Tahsin. However, most importantly, the fact that the editor blames Nihat İlhan without any citation is disrespectful and disturbing. I never complain about wikipedia articles but his/her language and word choices are disturbingly one-sided. Bozsivri ( talk) 22:29, 24 May 2012 (UTC)bozsivri
This article is totally POV. but not as the previous users have said. I don't know how it used to be in the past, but at this point, this is a totally pro Turkish POV article, in 2015, that is.
I will give two examples.
In the 1963-64: "Bloody Christmas" and Battle of Tillyria section, only Greek Cypriot alleged war crimes are stated in a very POV way. In the Outbreak of intercommunal violence section, only alleged Greek Cypriot propaganda spreading is stated, again in a very POV way.Ron1978 (talk) 22:00, 15 October 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Courtier1978 ( talk • contribs)
What's the deal with calling TMT members terrorists and any Greek fighter a patriot? TheDarkLordSeth ( talk) 16:56, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Totally agree. I am a Greek, but the last section as it stands now is total NPOV. if no concensus on a single narrative may be reached, then it would be better to have 2 sections, one 'GC point of wiew' and one 'TC point of view'. I have never before nagged on wikipedia talk pages, but this article is unacceptable by any standards. Xzar 62.169.220.17 ( talk) 13:04, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
please someone add this photo: http://skyturkvngenc.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/gc3a2vurdan-dostluk-umanlara.jpg to the section "bloody christmas" part Girayhankaya ( talk) 16:18, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
If there are no objections, I plan to Move this article from " Cypriot intercommunal violence" to "Cypriot inter-communal violence", which is proper English. If no one objects, I will do this in eight days. Thank you. GenQuest "Talk to Me" 16:27, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 ( talk) 02:40, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
Cyprus government was in place in 1963-1964. In addition Turkey was active in bombing Cyprus, it wasn't just supporting TMT.
Pampos40 ( talk) 12:28, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
Lets take any discussion about the result column in the infobox here.
Googling for random links supporting your view is a very dishonest practice. If we are going to name victors in an ethnic conflict, at least the proponent should make sure to define what "victory" in such a case means. How did the Greek Cypriots win? Did they defeat the Turkish Cypriots militarily? Politically? In other ways? As stated before, I am not opposed to the claim itself (which may be right), but I do oppose the way it is pressed. If @ User:Courtier1978 could elaborate what "victory" means in this case, perhaps we can have a civilized discussion (unless I immediately agree with you? It's all on you). -- Mikrobølgeovn ( talk) 10:13, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
The sources are mainly from books. They are not random links. The Greek Cypriot victory is well sourced. It is much more well sourced, than the vast majority of the results of conflicts, which are described as victory. What do you mean be a very dishonest practice? If you want to to make a civilized discussion as you are saying, which I accept to make, you shouldn't start with an insult, don't you think.?
Let's proceed with the subject.
Greek Cypriots won militarily, as in the battles, and as in the percentage of the territory that they have controlled and won politically, as they were recognized, as the de jure possessor of the Republic Of Cyprus. The Turkish Cypriots were confined, in an area of just the 3% of the island. That shows a clear victory. I don't see how else the result of this conflict can be added. It is neither a draw nor a Turkish Cypriot victory. It would be a POV to add it as a draw, or a Turkish Cypriot victory, especially if we compare with how other conflicts are described. If this conflict is not added as a Greek-Cypriot victory, it will clearly show a pro-Turkish POV, which does not admit any defeat, its defeats are not described as such but the same does not apply for its victories, and we should delete the word victory from most of the conflicts around the world, since in comparison with most, this is a clear one. How can you add in the result a victory, when small or medium percentages of territory are de facto gained or lost, and not when the one side is just left with the 3% and the other side with all the rest, plus the political recognition as the de jure possessor of the country, plus the winning of the battles? Ron1978 ( talk) 11:57, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
I will answer your questions but first it is fair to say, that, if in every conflict we take it like you are taking it, when there is a Greek Cypriot victory, then no conflict will have a winner and nothing can be added. We add and speak in comparison to what is going on with the rest. Otherwise is POV and attempting to find a way to do not admit a victory, as clear as it is, when the winning side it is not of one's choice, while when the winning side, it is, of one's choice, to do the exact opposite. That is POV. The same applies to other edits. You should ask yourself, are you treating the Turkish victories the same? What was the aim of Turkey when it invaded Cyprus? To create a non-recognized by anyone state? To leave Turkey out of EU? To get a US embargo of weapons for 4 years? To be condemned by the whole international community? To isolate the Turkish Cypriots from the rest of the world?
To answer your question, the US and Greece had tried to unite Cyprus with Greece in the 1960's. First the US with the Acheson plans and then the pro-American Junta of Greece, with 3 coup attempts. The Greek Cypriots didn't accept. Makarios the president of Cyprus by a vast majority popular vote didn't accept. The Greek Cypriots wanted to unite with Greece, much much prior to that in a referendum, when they were a British colony and much before anything had started, and EOKA A wanted to unite with Greece, in the 50's, when Cyprus was a British colony. Some minority pro-union with Greece, Greek Cypriots, allied with Junta of Greece in the coup attempts, against Makarios in the 1970's. Makarios was the president of Cyprus by a vast majority popular vote. The aim of the Greek Cypriots at the time of the Cyprus Inter communal violence, was not the union of Greece, but the defense of the country. They had the political support of both the Soviet states and the Non-aligned movement states, who had no interest on what so ever, to see a Non-aligned country, uniting with a Nato country, especially at a time of a cold war. The Soviet Union even made a statement, that if Turkey was going to invade Cyprus, Cyprus would not be alone. Makarios was accused by a minority of pro-unionists, to be an anti-unionist and always had the vast majority of the popular vote. The Turkish policy at the time, wanted the 34% of Cyprus in a by communal federation and not the 3% in enclaves and with no role in the government. I suggest to read the history of Cyprus extensively and then we can discuss as much as you like. Ron1978 ( talk) 14:20, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
Glad to see a more friendly approach by you two today. I will start answering.
GGT I have never given any POV sources. POV would have being to have a conflict with 2000 thousand civilian casualties from the one side and 200 hundred civilian casualties from the other and state 10 massacres, which all 10 of them, would be blaming the side that has produced the 200 civilian casualties, while the other that has produced the 2000 civilian casualties, to be stated with 0 massacres.
My disagreement with you all of this time, is based on that and that is what I am trying to convince you. That it is fine to add whatever you please, well sourced, if it is proportional and real. NPOV that is and accept the other NPOV versions, coming from other users, with out deleting them. Not only victories for the one side, not only massacres for the one side, but proportional and real for both, according to the real facts and figures. The same applies to to the opinions of other countries and global organizations on the issue, such as the UN, the EU e.t.c. In addition Greek and Turkish Cypriots are having a lot in common, and they are cooperating in many things, which is fair to add in the articles, as I have done both yesterday and in the past. If someone disagrees with some of the sources, then we can discuss about them, but the reason of discussion needs to be having to do with NPOV.
To answer to Mikrobølgeovn I will start from the first inquiry and then I will proceed to the second.
EOKA A, was dissolved, with the independence of Cyprus, and gave its weapons to the government of the Republic of Cyprus. There was no EOKA A in the 1960's. Some of its members became ministers of the government of the Republic of Cyprus, others took government positions, others did something else. It was consider a success and most of them agreed with the independence of Cyprus. Makarios didn't decide alone for the independence. The vast majority of the representatives agreed. Only 4 from the 35 representatives disagreed. Cyprus became a non-aligned country.
TMT prior to the independence was not consider, to be a considerable force. TMT was organized by Turkey and took its weapons from Turkey. Between the first day of the independence and 1963, TMT took 10 thousand weapons from Turkey. TMT didn't differentiated from Turkish policy at no time. Many non-combatants Turkish Cypriots differentiated from TMT a lot, with out even knowing its relationship with Turkey, but not TMT from Turkey. Many of the ones that differentiated, were belonging to the leftist workers union, and were generally leftists. Some of their letters to the UN and Turkey may be still available, if you are interested to see.
The Greek Cypriots at the time took their weapons from Egypt and not from Greece. The Greek Cypriots in 1963 prior to the development of the National Guard in 1964, they were organized in groups of volunteers. The biggest group was called Akritas. So in the 1960's, there was no EOKA A and there was Akritas, plus other minor groups.
In 1974 Turkey aimed to take the airport of Nicosia as well and it didn't succeed. It also aimed to control the rest of Cyprus through a by communal federation, in a deal, that the 17.8% of Turkish Cypriots, would equal the 82.2% of the rest, with different approved and recognized demographics and percentage of Cyprus, than the independence deal, that didn't succeed. The rest are not only Greek Cypriots. There is a small minority of Armenians, Maronites and Latins. Politically Turkey didn't succeed anything.
That deal was and is the aim of Turkey in Cyprus. The two states it is not the first aim of Turkey. It wasn't in the past and it is not now. That is the plan B, if the first aim fails. I can explain the reasons of that aim as well in another discussion. Not all Turkish Cypriots like the occupation. In a matter of fact, Turkish Cypriots are not permitted to enter Turkish barracks, the army is mainly Turkish and there are organizations of Turkish Cypriots, that prefer to be Cypriots than Turkish.
I do not belong to a side, either here, either in any other article. In order to belong to a side, I would need to push POV towards that side. That I don't do. On the contrary, in the articles related to Cyprus, I am adding what the Greek and Turkish Cypriots have in common, adding in the confidence building measures, plus adding NPOV versions, in everything. I will add more, slowly, slowly, in the articles related to Cyprus, since there is a lot of material to be covered, in an NPOV manner and then everyone can see it and discuss it, if they believe that they need to add or change anything. If their versions are NPOV, I do not mind, either I do mind if there is one, or many editing. However when someone says that today is November 2015 and someone else says that is November 3030, then we don't have either 2515, either 3030. From the other hand if one comes and says today we have 1st of November, then another comes and says the hour, then another comes and says we have a time difference between this country and the other, then someone comes and describes a picture as he/she pleases and that description to be NPOV, then I can agree with all of them, but I can not agree that we have 2515, or 3030 because we don't. I don't mind that you two are pro-Turkish. I don't mind if you decide to deny it as well. If you come with NPOV versions, in the articles, and let anyone else adding their own NPOV, then it is totally fine with me, since then the articles will evolve naturally fine. I hope you both understand my point of view.
I hope we will have a very positive cooperation from now on:) Ron1978 ( talk) 19:55, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Cypriot intercommunal violence/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
==Assessed as Start Class==
This article is a good start, but it has some grammatical errors:
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The "Crisis of 1963–64" section is strongly pro-Greek Cypriot POV pushing and anti-Turkish Cypriot POV pushing, and the sources contain unverifiable information and claims. It is also written in an incredibly opinionated narrative, with the majority of the text concentrating on pushing said POVs with inconsistent and irrelevant information, much of which has not included very very robust references to link that logic between what they are narrating and the actual "Crisis of 1963–64". To be better informed, see [2]
And on this subject:
This type of strong pro-Greek Cypriot POV pushing and strong anti-Turkish Cypriot POV pushing really needs to be stopped.
The Greek Cypriot police operating within the old Venetian walls of Nicosia demanded to see the identification papers of some Turkish Cypriots who were returning home from an evening out, who when attempting to search the women in the car, were objected to by the taxi driver, and a discussion ensued [8] before word of the incident quickly spread and a hostile crowd gathered. [9] Then the police officers called for reinforcements (from Paphos Gate), one of whom arrived, took out his gun, and shot and killed the taxi driver and his (now ex) girlfriend. [10].
What does the TMT (which was created to counter EOKA), Turkey (which reluctantly supported TMT), and the angry Turkish Cypriot crowds have to do with somehow being involved in a bizarre conspiracy that Turkey had greater plans in Cyprus? (Even though with the Turkish intervention this has been proven to definitely not be the case, where even the strongest of its critics must agree, as do its observers: "Turkey intervened to protect the lives and property of the Turkish-Cypriots, and to its credit it has done just that. In the 12 years (now decades) since, there have been no killings and no massacres" - Lord Willis (Labor) told the House of Lords on Dec. 17, 1986).
Like with how the Greek Cypriots are guilty of attempted genocide but no action has ever been taken against them, and instead they have been rewarded by recognition as the government of all Cyprus, these types of strong pro-Greek Cypriot POV pushers and anti-Turkish Cypriot POV pushers are exploiting that political expediency to make baseless assertions and spoil Wikipedia, with assertions comparable to those made by Mr. Christides (May 10, 1999), that there was no ethnic cleansing or attempted genocide of Turkish Cypriots by Greek Cypriots.
Until these people come to terms with the appalling behaviour of the Greek Cypriot community toward the Turkish Cypriot community and stop trying to persuade themselves and the world that each side was as much to blame as the other, there will be no reconciliation in Cyprus. And so long as there are so many strong pro-Greek Cypriot POV pushers and strong anti-Turkish Cypriot POV pushers, Wikipedia will continue to riddled with selective disinformation on this issue.
This needs to be stopped right now. Nargothronde ( talk) 04:43, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
References
The rise of Turkish nationalism among the Turkish Cypriots can be largely seen as a response to the Greek Cypriot national "awakening" and campaign for union with Greece.
The Turkish Cypriot nationalism developed mainly in reaction to the Greek Cypriot national desire for union with Greece.
Greek Cypriots engaged in a military campaign for enosis, union with Greece. Turkish Cypriots, in response, expressed their desire for taksim, partition of the island.
It is the exact opposite that is happenning. One should just look at the facts and figures of the case and the related cases, and compare it with what it is said in the article and of what the first user is saying, to realize how pro turkish POV they are, to the point to inciting hatred against Greek Cypriots and a victimhood culture in Turkish Cypriots, while the second user is already banned form the Greek version of Wikipedia Jazz1972 ( talk) 19:54, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
Speaking the one that thinks that there was going to be a Turkish Cypriot genocide in Cyprus and that there was even a plan for that.:) You do not have a single clue about the case, and you are repeating the turkish side's fanatical war propaganda, that was debunked by the turkish officials themselves. You are a very poor POV user, that incites hatred against Greek Cypriots and a victimhood culture in Turkish Cypriots. If you want to improve start reading non propaganda and non turkish sources and stop being a fanatic. Don't expect to respong to this ludicrus comments of yours, if you don't come with NPOV comments and don't expect to pass this pretending a soft way to do it, like you are doing in your second response. You are making it even more ludicrus like that Jazz1972 ( talk) 09:36, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
Cinadon36 You are even banned from the Greek version of Wikipedia. What exactly are you doing here? Jazz1972 ( talk) 11:13, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
Whoever agree with the concencus made by RON in the results sections of the talk page, can write it here in order to start adding the NPOV version of it. I will participate in serious discussions with serious NPOV users. Jazz1972 ( talk) 15:47, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
"Greek Cypriot official discourse, still reflected in history textbooks, follows a denialist [2] approach to Bloody Christmas. According to this narrative, the Republic of Cyprus faced a "Turkish mutiny" (Tourkantarsia). As such, Greek Cypriots are presented as the victims of Turkish Cypriot aggression, whereas the majority of the victims were Turkish Cypriot. [2] This was used by the Republic of Cyprus to legitimise human rights violations against Turkish Cypriots, the suspension of their political rights, and, until 2003, the exclusion of Turkish Cypriots from the framing of the missing people by the Republic of Cyprus. [3] [2] In 2004, Greek Cypriot leader Tassos Papadopoulos said in an interview that no Turkish Cypriots were killed between 1963 and 1974. Reaction to this claim appeared in the Greek and Turkish Cypriot media, [4] with Greek Cypriot media calling Papadopoulos's claim a blatant lie. [5] [6]. The use of the term "mutiny" to describe the events of 1963–64 has contributed to a Greek Cypriot master narrative that the Cyprus problem started in 1974. Under this, Greek Cypriot and Armenian Cypriot people displaced in 1963-64 are not classified as "refugees" but as "those struck by the Turks" (Tourkoplihtoi). [2] [3] [7]". And before you start thinking too much, I think it would also do you good to know that the section is titled "Denial", as in denial generally speaking from wherever it's coming from, not specifically "Greek Cypriot denial" or "Turkish Cypriot denial", but just denial, and unfortunately for you, wherever it does exist on whatever side of or away from the island, it's most evidently present in Greek Cypriot education and society, as this section of the article also clearly demonstrates. That's just a fact. Nargothronde ( talk) 01:05, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
References
Serious NPOV users I said. The poor POV ones that are inciting hatred against Greek Cypriots and a victimhood culture among Turkish Cypriots are the problem and not the solution. The ones that are pretending to be the mediators, while being with them, the same and worst. Do not think that I don't know what is going on here Jazz1972 ( talk) 06:40, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
I have removed the source added by Nargothronde here and instead added a {{ citation needed}}-tag to the original text. The given source says nothing about "self-determination", neither for the "Cypriot people" nor for the "Greek Cypriot people". The fact that only Greek Cypriots voted in a referendum in 1950 can not throw any light on how Greek Cypriots felt about the Turkish position in the UN discussions after August 1954. The text about "self-determination of the Cypriot people" will, however, need a source or be deleted – as would "self-determination of the Greek Cypriot people". -- T*U ( talk) 16:24, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
Greek Cypriots felt that this position paid little respect to the 1950 referendum.??? Nargothronde ( talk) 10:11, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
Can anyone here name me those 103 villages? Jazz1972 ( talk) 10:49, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
war propaganda", this is referenced in a number of different sources, both contemporary during those events and now. You can try to find them yourself, or present a case on the Talk page for discussion, supported by reliable sources, instead of attacking other users and making baseless and demeaning accusations, simply because they do not conform to your own POV. Using bullying tactics and rhetoric will not work and is against the Wikipedia guidelines. See: WP:POVRAILROAD... nothing should justify trying to create a hostile environment here. Needless to say, they will just ultimately be ignored. And as IamNotU said, you need to present a clear case. This is not a platform to push POVs or original ideas. See: WP:NPOV and WP:OR. Nargothronde ( talk) 10:56, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
So not a single one, can mention the 103 villages from the ones that are pushing this POV, lie and war propaganda, here and all false politcs are used by them in order to enforce it. You can imagine my shock:). Jazz1972 ( talk) 11:10, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
Jazz1972, Cinadon36, and Nargothronde, I'd like to politely remind all of you that article talk pages are exclusively for talking about how to improve the article. They are not the place to discuss peoples' behavior. If another editor's behavior disturbs you, please talk to them about it on their talk page, ask an admin, open an ANI report, or better yet, just ignore it, and focus on the text of the article and solving any problems with it. Jazz1972, are you interested in discussing this, or not? If so, could you please try to help me understand exactly what the problem is? Do you think that some villages were attacked, but less than 103? Or no villages were attacked? Or the Turkish Cypriots attacked their own villages, or what? If the information in the source is incorrect (people do make mistakes sometimes) then what is the correct information? And, most importantly, how do you know? Where can we find published information that says something different? -- IamNotU ( talk) 15:34, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
J. Welfare of displaced persons and rehabilitation of housing
177. As indicated in my report of 15 June 1964, the disturbances of December 1963 had resulted in the total or partial destruction of many dwellings, a high proportion of them simple homes whose owners would be but slightly able to fend for themselves. This tended in many localities to create or to aggravate a refugee problem, as the owners of these houses and their families fled to safer areas where many of them lived in temporary camps in precarious conditions.
180. UNFICYP carried out a detailed survey of all damage to properties throughout the island during the disturbances, including the Tylliria fighting. It shows that in 109 villages, most of them Turkish Cypriot or mixed villages, 527 houses have been destroyed while 2,000 others have suffered damage from looting. In Ktima 38 houses and shops have been destroyed totally and 122 partially. In the Omorphita suburb of Nicosia 50 houses have been totally destroyed while a further 240 have been partially destroyed there and in adjacent suburbs.
181. The results of the survey are set forth in great detail in a report which was recently submitted by UNFICYP to both the Cyprus Government and the Turkish Cypriot leaders. [...]
190. [...] The trade of the Turkish community had considerably declined during the period, due to the existing situation, and unemployment reached a very high level as approximately 25,000 Turkish Cypriots had become refugees. [...]
References
Let's ask again. Can anyone here name those 103 villages, that were supposedy got attacked? If no, then why do you want this POV propaganda narrative here? The whole article is a POV propaganda narrative by the way, as explained in another section of the talk page Jazz1972 ( talk) 16:10, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
Here we go again...I suggest we close this discussion. Jazz1972 failed to back his opinion with evidence. Cinadon36 ( talk) 16:27, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
War is peace ignorance is strength...you can imagine my shock...Lol!!! Can anyone I repeat from the ones that they push this POV propaganda narrative of the 103 villages, and want it to be enforced here, name those 103 villages? Jazz1972 ( talk) 17:44, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
Ortega report - Survey May-July 1964 - 109 villages plus Omorphita (Nicosia) and Ktima NICOSIA DISTRICT 1. Akaki 2. Aredhiou 3. Argaki 4. Ayia Marina (Skyllouras) 5. Ayios Epiphanios 6. Ayios Sozornenos 7. Ayios Vassilios 8. Ayios Yeoryios (Soleas ) 9. Bey Keuy 10. Chumlekdji 11. Dhali 12. Dheftera, Kato 13. Dhenia 14. Eliophotes 15. Eylenja 16. Korakou 17. Koutraphas, Pano 18. Lakatamia, Kato 19. Linou 20. Margi 21. Mathiati 22. Morphou 23. Neokhorio 24. Nisou 25. Omorphita 26. Orounda 27. Palekythro 28. Peristerona 29. Petra 30. Phlassou, Pano 31. Potamia 32. Pyroi 33. Skylloura 34. Tymbou 35. Xeros and Karavostassi 36. Bimbazhi KYRENIA DISTRICT 1. Ayios Epiktitos 2. Ayios Yeoryios 3. Dhiorios 4. Kazaphani 5. Lapithos 6. Liveras 7. Trapeza 8. Vasilia 9. Vavilas 10. Hazreti Omer FAMAGUSTA DISTRICT 1. Arnadhi 2. Ayios Theodhoros 3. Pyrga 4. Vitsadha 5. Piyi LARNACA DISTRICT 1. Alethriko 2. Anaphotia 3. Anglissidhes 4. Aplanda 5. Ayia Anna 6. Kalavasos 7. Lefkara, Pano 8. Maroni 9. Meneou 10. Perivolia 11. Petrophani 12. Pyrga 13. Sophadhes 14. Zyyi LIMASSOL DISTRICT 1. Anoyira 2. Asomatos 3. Cherkez 4. Kilani 5. Kividhes, Kato 6. Kolnssi 7. Mallia 8. Mathikoloni 9. Moniatis 10. Phasoula 11. Pissouri 12. Polemidhia (Kato and Pano) 13. Prastio 14. Siliknu 15. Trakhona 16. Yerovasa 17. Amiandos Pano PAPHOS DISTRICT 1. Akhelia 2. Akoursos 3. Asproyia 4. Ayios lsidhoros 5. Ayios Yeorgios 6. Galataria 7. Karamoul lidhes 8. Kato Paphos 9. Kedhares lO. Khoulou 11. Khrysokhou 12. Kithasi 13. Kourtaka 14. Kritou Terra 15. Ktima 16. Lapithiou 17. Lemba 18. Loukrounou 19. Mamoundali 20. Pano Arkhimantlrita 21. Phalia 22. Phasli 23. Phasoula 24. Pitargou 25. Polis 26. Prastio 27. Prodhromi 28. Yernskipos 29. Ayia Marina
Addendum - Survey August 1 to August 17, 1964 - additional 12 entries NICOSIA DISTRICT 1. Alevga 2. Ay Theodhoros 3. Kato Pyrgos 4. Kokkina 5. Mansoura 6. Fano Pyrgos 7. Piyenia/Khaleri 8. Selain t'Api PAPHOS DISTRICT 1. Ayia Marina 2. Pakhyammos 3. Polis 4. Pomos
Since now we have names of villages at last and the admission from one user that he is not claiming that those were attacked, (they weren't) can anyone else here, provide with the attacks on these villages, as the propaganda POV narrative says.? In addition is any user here, that wants this POV propaganda narrative to remain? Jazz1972 ( talk) 19:32, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
How many of these villages have Greek names and how many Turkish names? Do the Greek Cypriots attacked their own villages? You have already admited that the 103 villages were not attacked both of you by the way, the one way or the other and undoublty, while no one of you seems to want to remove the 103 villages war propaganda and add the NPOV information and both of you have deleted the NPOV information and added the 103 villages war propaganda. Jazz1972 ( talk) 21:45, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
From 1959 the turkish government was sending weapons and officers to TMT in Cyprus in order to implement its plan for Cyprus, a plan that the UN has declined. A ship was caught full of weapons by the British and send back. By 1963 10 thousand weapons are believed to have arrived in Cyprus at the hands of TMT. The plan of action, was for the Turkish Cypriots to attack and the turkish troops to invade. The Greek Cypriots having being informed, went to the Greek goverment of Karamanlis and Averof and asked for weapons. The Greek government declined their request., and
Armed Turkish Cypriots took control of areas in Cyprus and started shooting at Greek Cypriot civilians. Greek Cypriots with mainly home made weapons, confronted them and took control of some of these areas.Other statements failed verification and were not contained in the given source, such as where you changed this:
Eric Solsten described the events as "a Greek Cypriot police patrol, ostensibly checking identification documents, stopped a Turkish Cypriot couple on the edge of the Turkish quarter. A hostile crowd gathered, shots were fired, and two Turkish Cypriots were killed."and you re-wrote the quote of the source to say instead:
a Greek Cypriot police patrol, checked a turkish cypriot car to see if they had weapons, in the area of St. Casianos in Nicosia. A hostile Turkish Cypriot crowd gathered, attacked the patrol, shots were fired, and two Turkish Cypriots were killed."- that is not contained in the source. If you fail to follow the most basic Wikipedia rules of verifiability, you can't accuse others of a conspiracy to censor you. -- IamNotU ( talk) 22:37, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
From 1959 the turkish government was sending weapons and officers to TMT in Cyprus in order to implement its plan for Cyprus, a plan that the UN has declined. I don't think it's worth dignifying Jazz1972 with any further response on the matter. They won't try to verify anything. They are just trying to waste their and everybody else's time by making baseless accusations and violating so many of Wikipedia's guidelines. Most have already been mentioned above. I agree with Cinadon36 that we simply close this Talk. Nargothronde ( talk) 04:15, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Just a note, some Turkish-Cypriot villages do have a greek name. The reason could be that the poppulation of the village converted sometime, or because it's population has been replaced in a way or another. Cinadon36 ( talk) 06:51, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Still not able to prove your point as I see. Almost all of these villages have Greek names. How can almost all the names of the villages be Greek, if not Greek? Did the Greeks attacked their own villages? If more than 100 villages were attacked, would the casualties of 1963 be that few.? So what was the case, 2 people per village the casualties? Jazz1972 ( talk) 22:53, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
References
Jazz1972, I've removed the "undue weight section" templates for now, since you haven't given any explanation for them in your edit summaries. You've said that you've already explained on the talk page, but I can't find the words "undue weight" anywhere here. I'm not able to understand what you mean, or what previous discussion, in the many pages above, you might be talking about.
The "undue weight" (article version) template documentation says:
Could you please explain specifically what the problem with the sections you've marked are? What exactly is there "too much detail" about? What fringe or "non-important content" is there too much focus on? -- IamNotU ( talk) 00:10, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
I will explain in details, soon Jazz1972 ( talk) 11:11, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
Lets start from section 1963. All NPOV information is getting deleted chronically. All the reactions by all countries as well. The reactions of the Soviet Union, the United States and the Non-Aligned movement among others. All the role of the turkish goverment is getting deleted as well. How convinient:) The only two things that stay, is a war propaganda allegation against Greek-Cypriots of crimes that have never being commited, and no one here that pushes this POV propaganda narrative, can prove any of them, including the 103 villages and the war propaganda allegation, that the whole case was a Greek-Cypriot attack, while in reality it was exactly the opposite. The POV propaganda narrative is exactly the same, as the one of the turkish goverment. You can imagine my shock:) Chronic team work on enforcing this propaganda POV narrative, is constantly taking place by anti-Greek-Cypriot POV users and admins. All NPOV users have been chronically banned, while all the POV ones, are chronically immuned. Jazz1972 ( talk) 14:20, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
You can imagine my shock:D Jazz1972 ( talk) 16:01, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
War is peace ignorance is strength...You can imagine my shock!!Lol!!! Lets go again. Can anyone see the NPOV information that I am talking about in the section of 1963? No they don't exept if they go back to the NPOV versions that were immediately deleted!!! Can anyone see the POV propaganda narrative that I am talking about? Yes everybody can. The ones that do not want the NPOV information to be here and are deleting it, is it because they don't like the sources of the NPOV users that have tried to add it until now, such as the UN and the library of congress that is? Can anyone that pushes the POV propaganda narrative here, while deleting all the NPOV information, name the 103 vilages of the POV propaganda narrative? If not why are you pushing it and why are you deleting all the NPOV information? Jazz1972 ( talk) 18:05, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
The case is very obvious and very simple. It would be discussable in one, two points only, if the POV was 2% nd not 100% and the NPOV users were 9 to 10 here and not all banned. War is peace, ignorance is strength, doesn't help. I told you from the start that I know what is going on here. I don't know a bit, I actually know and I am not the only one. Do you think that either me or anyone else, will be tricked by any type of politics? The real question is this. Are you going to finally let the actual and complete NPOV versions to take place here and in the rest of the articles about Cyprus, or do you prefer a much bigger reaction? Jazz1972 ( talk) 22:05, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
Arguments are to be found in the last two sections of the talk page before this. Jazz1972 ( talk) 22:24, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
Yu didn't get any consensus on removing it from me. So it is back on Jazz1972 ( talk) 22:44, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
Have a look at Wikipedia rules. You are not following a single one of them Jazz1972 ( talk) 22:46, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
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