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A check with my desk Grove indicates only Bruckner actually died while trying to compose a Ninth. Opus33 04:25, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Should some mention of the 27 Club be made in the see also? It seems like a very similar pattern. 12.201.193.254 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:05, 13 April 2009 (UTC).
Dear Schissel,
Can I shyly ask you if you would mind having another look at your recently added sentence 'Atterberg, though he left a symphony for strings, did not number it; and his ninth is choral almost throughout.'....? I'm afraid I can't quite see what point it's meant to make in the context! Sorry if I'm being dim here; but I'm a great admirer of your efforts, and I'd like to see your thought shine clearly!
Regards, P.
What is all this Freudian business in the last couple paragraphs about Beethoven being the father figure in the composers' Oedipus complexes? I smell "original research"--and, frankly, garbage. It's completely unencyclopedic and should be removed.
I was pretty surprised that Mozart and Haydn were not mentioned. I put them in the article as examples to go against the existence of the curse. Academic Challenger 10:18, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Haydn and Mozart both wrote symphonies of increasing depth and complexity, but for the most part an 18th century symphony was meant to be a relatively light and entertaining piece of music. If a composer wanted to do something to really impress an audience he'd write music for the church.-- Saxophobia 22:51, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Exactly, it started with Beethoven, so why isn't that pointed out in the first sentence? Now he's just mentioned as someone among the other composers, which he shouldn't. Revan ltrl ( talk) 00:53, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Easy enough to guess when a biography, but I'll need help with this one - should m:nl:9e Symfonie-syndroom be interwiki'd here? Schissel | Sound the Note! 19:33, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
The recently added paragraph on Shostokovich's Ninth Symphony in relation to Stalin's regime all sounds like a truth that any lazy concert program notes writer would fall back on. For that reason we must question those statements and see if we can find citations for them. Anton Mravcek 17:10, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
According to the artical on Vaughan Williams, he only made nine symphonies. Perhaps we should add him to this artical as one of the people who have "fallen to the curse."
I added the OR tag again. While there are some real sources cited, and perhaps this is a good topic for an article, as it stands it quite clearly meets the definition of original research: a number of sources and concepts have been synthesized by a third party (i.e. the editors of this page) into a new concept. Can you cite a reliable source that uses the term "curse of the ninth" and applies it consistently to the composers mentioned here? Can you rewrite parts of the article to get rid of the "according to some"s and the "from X's point of view" and so on? - Apollo58 17:53, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Mozart Wrote 41 symphonies, not 60. Change that please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.194.8.172 ( talk) 03:18, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
wth? -- euyyn ( talk) 09:44, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
The case of Mahler always strikes me as not fitting into the Curse, although his story is relevant. He deliberately did not number Das Lied von der Erde as "Symphony No. 9", but he considered it a symphony nonetheless, just as Tchaikovsky considered Manfred one of his symphonies. Therefore, he completed 10 symphonies, and died during the writing of his 11th symphony, "Symphony No. 10". Either he beat the curse by his strategy, or he didn't. My reading is that he beat it. True, he didn't finish 10 numbered symphonies, but the Curse was not just about numbered symphonies, but about all symphonies. Most stories about the Curse of the Ninth talk about Mahler's ruse, and then lump him in with the others who didn't get past #9. But he did get past #9. Thoughts? -- JackofOz ( talk) 04:23, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
How is John Lennon relevant at all to this article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slackbassist ( talk • contribs) 22:39, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
Is it worth mentioning that Wagner composed nine major operas (or ten, depending on how you count Das Rheingold)? There is the anecdote of some Mr. Förster who supposedly said "Someone who composed something like this [Parsifal] will die soon", similar to the thinking of this "curse".
2003:DC:FF27:111B:F83D:124D:CF96:1B4F ( talk) 06:55, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
I always thought VW numbered his 9th symphony in E minor the better so as not to have it confused with his 6th symphony in E minor; didn't know that he started numbering them earlier (no.8). Interesting. (But yes, clear from Worldcat that the published score has "No.8.", and the 1968 reprint of Antartica has "No.7" added it seems, etc. ...) Interesting. Thanks. Schissel | Sound the Note! 22:15, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
I went ahead and removed most of the content in the article, due to it being unsourced, and likely WP:OR. Please feel free to restore it if you have a source. In the meantime, I'll try to find sources and improve the article with verifiability. Mcguy15 ( talk, contribs) 13:25, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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A check with my desk Grove indicates only Bruckner actually died while trying to compose a Ninth. Opus33 04:25, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Should some mention of the 27 Club be made in the see also? It seems like a very similar pattern. 12.201.193.254 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:05, 13 April 2009 (UTC).
Dear Schissel,
Can I shyly ask you if you would mind having another look at your recently added sentence 'Atterberg, though he left a symphony for strings, did not number it; and his ninth is choral almost throughout.'....? I'm afraid I can't quite see what point it's meant to make in the context! Sorry if I'm being dim here; but I'm a great admirer of your efforts, and I'd like to see your thought shine clearly!
Regards, P.
What is all this Freudian business in the last couple paragraphs about Beethoven being the father figure in the composers' Oedipus complexes? I smell "original research"--and, frankly, garbage. It's completely unencyclopedic and should be removed.
I was pretty surprised that Mozart and Haydn were not mentioned. I put them in the article as examples to go against the existence of the curse. Academic Challenger 10:18, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Haydn and Mozart both wrote symphonies of increasing depth and complexity, but for the most part an 18th century symphony was meant to be a relatively light and entertaining piece of music. If a composer wanted to do something to really impress an audience he'd write music for the church.-- Saxophobia 22:51, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Exactly, it started with Beethoven, so why isn't that pointed out in the first sentence? Now he's just mentioned as someone among the other composers, which he shouldn't. Revan ltrl ( talk) 00:53, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Easy enough to guess when a biography, but I'll need help with this one - should m:nl:9e Symfonie-syndroom be interwiki'd here? Schissel | Sound the Note! 19:33, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
The recently added paragraph on Shostokovich's Ninth Symphony in relation to Stalin's regime all sounds like a truth that any lazy concert program notes writer would fall back on. For that reason we must question those statements and see if we can find citations for them. Anton Mravcek 17:10, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
According to the artical on Vaughan Williams, he only made nine symphonies. Perhaps we should add him to this artical as one of the people who have "fallen to the curse."
I added the OR tag again. While there are some real sources cited, and perhaps this is a good topic for an article, as it stands it quite clearly meets the definition of original research: a number of sources and concepts have been synthesized by a third party (i.e. the editors of this page) into a new concept. Can you cite a reliable source that uses the term "curse of the ninth" and applies it consistently to the composers mentioned here? Can you rewrite parts of the article to get rid of the "according to some"s and the "from X's point of view" and so on? - Apollo58 17:53, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Mozart Wrote 41 symphonies, not 60. Change that please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.194.8.172 ( talk) 03:18, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
wth? -- euyyn ( talk) 09:44, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
The case of Mahler always strikes me as not fitting into the Curse, although his story is relevant. He deliberately did not number Das Lied von der Erde as "Symphony No. 9", but he considered it a symphony nonetheless, just as Tchaikovsky considered Manfred one of his symphonies. Therefore, he completed 10 symphonies, and died during the writing of his 11th symphony, "Symphony No. 10". Either he beat the curse by his strategy, or he didn't. My reading is that he beat it. True, he didn't finish 10 numbered symphonies, but the Curse was not just about numbered symphonies, but about all symphonies. Most stories about the Curse of the Ninth talk about Mahler's ruse, and then lump him in with the others who didn't get past #9. But he did get past #9. Thoughts? -- JackofOz ( talk) 04:23, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
How is John Lennon relevant at all to this article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slackbassist ( talk • contribs) 22:39, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
Is it worth mentioning that Wagner composed nine major operas (or ten, depending on how you count Das Rheingold)? There is the anecdote of some Mr. Förster who supposedly said "Someone who composed something like this [Parsifal] will die soon", similar to the thinking of this "curse".
2003:DC:FF27:111B:F83D:124D:CF96:1B4F ( talk) 06:55, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
I always thought VW numbered his 9th symphony in E minor the better so as not to have it confused with his 6th symphony in E minor; didn't know that he started numbering them earlier (no.8). Interesting. (But yes, clear from Worldcat that the published score has "No.8.", and the 1968 reprint of Antartica has "No.7" added it seems, etc. ...) Interesting. Thanks. Schissel | Sound the Note! 22:15, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
I went ahead and removed most of the content in the article, due to it being unsourced, and likely WP:OR. Please feel free to restore it if you have a source. In the meantime, I'll try to find sources and improve the article with verifiability. Mcguy15 ( talk, contribs) 13:25, 15 June 2021 (UTC)