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I predict the following: In the next few weeks/months the material on traditional art will grow to the extent that it will be too long as a section. In a few months it will split into an article perhaps called Crucifixion in Christian art with several large sections and various structured galleries. There will be a summary here with a main. That will also cut back on all the debates about "Manga vs Michelangelo" and "Rap vs Raphael". I will start sketching some ideas here: Talk:Crucifixion_in_the_arts/Crucifixion in Christian art and we can take summaries therefrom to add to this article, as appropriate. Then when all is ready, that can become an article. That approach was called the Blackboard system years ago, and we can just try it anyway. History2007 ( talk) 15:22, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
I will just start typing some semi-random thoughts every few days into the experimental page, then see what happens. The stages need to be there, but if you look at Madonna (art) it has Modes of representation as well as a temporal discussion. Same can be done here, with modes, stages etc. separate from date of painting. History2007 ( talk) 23:29, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
Tryptofish already mentioned this above, and I'm not trying to be rude, but given the argument directly above, isn't this a POV fork? The only reason the Traditional art section(which to be honest seems like a little too contentious of a name, maybe change it to Classic art so you don't flare up people who want to add wrestling) threatens to get so long is because the two of you are focused on adding content only to it. Why not expand out of the Christian content bubble and let all of the Jesus art that's already described on its own pages (like stations of the cross) stay there, with just a brief mention and link here? Zengar Zombolt ( talk) 19:21, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
The manga part of the Graphics novels section was twice deleted by a new editor without any explanation. This is here so they know where to write something as I haven't the foggiest why they did it but I left them a note about WP:BRD. Dmcq ( talk) 13:40, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
Я был вынужден занять определенную позицию в отношении агрессивного воздействия тех, которые потеряли свою собственную психических неопределенность, сохранение их гротескные статуями электронный экскрементами. Roscrad ( talk) 00:00, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
Остерегайтесь молодой человек, как вы ходите на данный момент, как вы когда-то я и сейчас, как я вам тоже должно быть так что будьте готовы следовать за мной. Roscrad ( talk) 14:08, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
Getting back to the topic of what Dmcq originally asked (and thank you for doing so), it's really the same thing that I am trying to ask under #Question, above. And, as Dmcq so very correctly said, the wrong way of answering the question is to keep deleting from the page, whereas the right way is to engage in civil and content-based discussion here in this talk. -- Tryptofish ( talk) 16:32, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
The editor in question is now indefinitely blocked. Let's move on. - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) talk 02:34, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
Thank you very much. Moving on, I have now added the FMA image that has been discussed extensively in this talk, and restored and revised some, but not all, of the text that was improperly deleted. I think that I and other editors have been extraordinarily generous in allowing time for editors who object to this material to have their say, in this talk thread, and in #Question above. I'm now going to make a "prediction" of my own. People who could not care less about this talk will soon notice the image on the page, and will show up to follow in the footsteps of the editor whose block is noted just above. As long as there are wikigroaners and proxy servers, they will keep popping up. I hope that editors who take the editing process seriously will join me in reverting unexplained deletions and showing the deleters this talk page, and, if they do not behave constructively, show them the door. -- Tryptofish ( talk) 16:40, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
Tryptofish, please explain why graphic novels and anime need to have sections distinct from popular art and film and television, respectively. Until you do so I think the onus of proof is on you rather than the people you disagree with. 61.95.19.250 ( talk) 02:15, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
I would remove the offending and irrelevant FMA picture as per the standards clearly defined in undue, but the page has been locked, can a friendly editor help me out? As for further justification, I suggest referring to the many comments made above by a wide variety of mods. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.61.44.230 ( talk) 21:21, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
i deleted that section so that the article could look more simple. why was it throw out? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.223.127.68 ( talk) 01:39, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
Alas, the people who need to hear what I'm about to say won't be bothering to read this, but... Please do not delete material from this article just because you, personally, do not like it. Please understand that the material in the graphic novels section was discussed at length on this talk page before it was added. Also, the organization of the sections of the article has been discussed carefully. If you would like to change the article, please discuss your proposed changes here, on this talk page, before you go ahead and make them. -- Tryptofish ( talk) 01:36, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
This is a view from the Cross. Please fit it somewhere there. Are there more like this? History2007 ( talk) 06:56, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
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@ HandsomeMrToad: Is there sourcing to indicate that the passage from Macbeth is specifically about crucifixion, as opposed to the various other ways someone could be "hanged" from a tree? -- Tryptofish ( talk) 20:28, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
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I predict the following: In the next few weeks/months the material on traditional art will grow to the extent that it will be too long as a section. In a few months it will split into an article perhaps called Crucifixion in Christian art with several large sections and various structured galleries. There will be a summary here with a main. That will also cut back on all the debates about "Manga vs Michelangelo" and "Rap vs Raphael". I will start sketching some ideas here: Talk:Crucifixion_in_the_arts/Crucifixion in Christian art and we can take summaries therefrom to add to this article, as appropriate. Then when all is ready, that can become an article. That approach was called the Blackboard system years ago, and we can just try it anyway. History2007 ( talk) 15:22, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
I will just start typing some semi-random thoughts every few days into the experimental page, then see what happens. The stages need to be there, but if you look at Madonna (art) it has Modes of representation as well as a temporal discussion. Same can be done here, with modes, stages etc. separate from date of painting. History2007 ( talk) 23:29, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
Tryptofish already mentioned this above, and I'm not trying to be rude, but given the argument directly above, isn't this a POV fork? The only reason the Traditional art section(which to be honest seems like a little too contentious of a name, maybe change it to Classic art so you don't flare up people who want to add wrestling) threatens to get so long is because the two of you are focused on adding content only to it. Why not expand out of the Christian content bubble and let all of the Jesus art that's already described on its own pages (like stations of the cross) stay there, with just a brief mention and link here? Zengar Zombolt ( talk) 19:21, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
The manga part of the Graphics novels section was twice deleted by a new editor without any explanation. This is here so they know where to write something as I haven't the foggiest why they did it but I left them a note about WP:BRD. Dmcq ( talk) 13:40, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
Я был вынужден занять определенную позицию в отношении агрессивного воздействия тех, которые потеряли свою собственную психических неопределенность, сохранение их гротескные статуями электронный экскрементами. Roscrad ( talk) 00:00, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
Остерегайтесь молодой человек, как вы ходите на данный момент, как вы когда-то я и сейчас, как я вам тоже должно быть так что будьте готовы следовать за мной. Roscrad ( talk) 14:08, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
Getting back to the topic of what Dmcq originally asked (and thank you for doing so), it's really the same thing that I am trying to ask under #Question, above. And, as Dmcq so very correctly said, the wrong way of answering the question is to keep deleting from the page, whereas the right way is to engage in civil and content-based discussion here in this talk. -- Tryptofish ( talk) 16:32, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
The editor in question is now indefinitely blocked. Let's move on. - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) talk 02:34, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
Thank you very much. Moving on, I have now added the FMA image that has been discussed extensively in this talk, and restored and revised some, but not all, of the text that was improperly deleted. I think that I and other editors have been extraordinarily generous in allowing time for editors who object to this material to have their say, in this talk thread, and in #Question above. I'm now going to make a "prediction" of my own. People who could not care less about this talk will soon notice the image on the page, and will show up to follow in the footsteps of the editor whose block is noted just above. As long as there are wikigroaners and proxy servers, they will keep popping up. I hope that editors who take the editing process seriously will join me in reverting unexplained deletions and showing the deleters this talk page, and, if they do not behave constructively, show them the door. -- Tryptofish ( talk) 16:40, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
Tryptofish, please explain why graphic novels and anime need to have sections distinct from popular art and film and television, respectively. Until you do so I think the onus of proof is on you rather than the people you disagree with. 61.95.19.250 ( talk) 02:15, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
I would remove the offending and irrelevant FMA picture as per the standards clearly defined in undue, but the page has been locked, can a friendly editor help me out? As for further justification, I suggest referring to the many comments made above by a wide variety of mods. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.61.44.230 ( talk) 21:21, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
i deleted that section so that the article could look more simple. why was it throw out? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.223.127.68 ( talk) 01:39, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
Alas, the people who need to hear what I'm about to say won't be bothering to read this, but... Please do not delete material from this article just because you, personally, do not like it. Please understand that the material in the graphic novels section was discussed at length on this talk page before it was added. Also, the organization of the sections of the article has been discussed carefully. If you would like to change the article, please discuss your proposed changes here, on this talk page, before you go ahead and make them. -- Tryptofish ( talk) 01:36, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
This is a view from the Cross. Please fit it somewhere there. Are there more like this? History2007 ( talk) 06:56, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
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@ HandsomeMrToad: Is there sourcing to indicate that the passage from Macbeth is specifically about crucifixion, as opposed to the various other ways someone could be "hanged" from a tree? -- Tryptofish ( talk) 20:28, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 22:21, 14 March 2019 (UTC)