This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I'm a little concerned about notability, these roles are fairly minor. -- Core desat 12:17, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Hello. Do you think that Cristina's covers of many songs (anime or otherwise) deserve mention? Her MySpace page is a good source, although this may be original research. Since I just made this account, what can I do better? AussyLibrarian ( talk) 03:49, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
It talks about her YouTube account briefly, but the subscription part is not up to date, she now has over 8,000 Subscribers. I would edit this myself, but it won't let me edit the main article... Moocowsrule ( talk) 23:16, 8 August 2008 (UTC)Moocowsrule
Should her new YouTube account be mentioned? Amazeedayzee ( talk) 04:43, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
I think so. I mentioned it for you so you don't need to do it. Roxy2k7 ( talk) 05:54, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
Well I recently visited her "official" site with Chrome, and it said it's unsafe, but I proceeded. Then I got some nasty malware, maybe some kinda trojan or logger. It's okay to include a link to this site...? Apart from this, the website is outdated, the last messages was posted in 2007. Forgot to sign it. Now here it is. -- Rev L. Snowfox ( talk) 12:56, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 ( talk) 16:16, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
Cristina Valenzuela →
Cristina Vee – Cristina Vee is her stage name and most used name for her anime credits and her web page –
AngusWOOF (
talk) 20:16, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
Netflix has an English version of Gantz:O up. The credits show Vee as Yamasaki [1] (or cite AV media) but according to her twitter [2] "I'm credited as Yamasaki in Gantz: O on Netflix, but I'm not in the version that they have up on the site. Don't know who the actress is". And this tweet [3] where the follow-up discussion speculates there are two dubs.
So then the question becomes: 1) whether she recorded for Gantz:O at all? 2) If so, what was her character? 3) Is there another English dub version? AngusWOOF ( bark • sniff) 03:00, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
I'm sorry kid tennis fan, but seriously!?!?!, you're telling us that we should no longer use Facebook and Twitter sources, just because they harmed Wikipedia standards like you did it with Cristina Vee and later the other voice actors! :(-- AnimeDisneylover95 ( talk) 03:17, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
I can't believe this is the same situation as last time, only this time Leprof 7272 is diminishing and considering Facebook posts and Tweets as Unreliable sources. What is the matter with all of you. Don't you realize that every online article and end credits from a video game or a certain TV show may not credit or even mention the voice actors, that why the tweets and Facebook post were placed here!!!!!!-- AnimeDisneylover95 ( talk) 00:04, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
…for an article for an individual in the entertainment industry that is generally very well done with regard to sourcing. The only reason that the tag appears—and relative to other articles, this one is indeed excellent, but still in need of one last improvement—regards the appearance of non-third party (self-published) sources as the only source for certain biographical facts. Once these ten or so reported facts are independently sourced, the tag can come down.
Note also, to my quick reading, with the DOB sourced only to two tweets, and these on different days, we cannot pick one date, without it being WP:OR. We cannot write things because we personally know something to be true. If two sources are at odds, and they report different things, we either resolve the matter with a better, reliable further source, or we report the uncertainty of the fact. When we have a good source for the DOB, for one date, we can remove the "10 or 11" uncertainty. But as long as the sources express uncertainty, we express uncertainty. (If information from the tweets was omitted that can be quoted, that points to just one date, that is another editorial addition that can be used to narrow the date range.) I will eventually add a better source tag, until an independent statement of DOB appears. Cheers, Le Prof Leprof 7272 ( talk) 13:44, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
Le Prof Leprof 7272 ( talk) 15:25, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
Please do not use back-and-forth reverts to communicate what is still wrong with the edit. Continue discussing on talk pages, here or at mine. AngusWOOF ( bark • sniff) 18:32, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
Per WP:BLPSELFPUB #5, "the article is not based primarily on such sources.", The self-pub sections now are concerning her birth month and day (already discussed above, subject does not object), birth place (not an extraordinary claim, older tweet confirms she was born in the US), current residence (not an extraordinary claim as it is on her web page and her tweets). The convention-published information that would have been linked to self-pub is for the most part gone, references to resumes gone. Other filmography entries can be added with secondary source confirmation. Keeping them out doesn't wreck the biography section. AngusWOOF ( bark • sniff) 20:32, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
This article is currently little more than a fan-piece, in large part replicating self-published information from the title subject, directly and indirectly—directly, from her Facebook and tweets, indirectly, through the biographical information supplied by her or her agents, to various agencies. Attempt to persuade yourself all you wish, this is not encyclopedic writing. Encyclopedic articles rise above the perspectives of individual publications by aggregating the consensus of information from a variety of independent, third-party sources—per WP:VERIFY, with secondary sourced preferred. This article fails to rise even to a bare minimum standard of independent sourcing. It is a shambles. And to argue otherwise is to argue in support of an article that can never be good here (that is, a GA article). So, defend the status quo, and keep it a fan article, or begin researching the title subject, and replace all the self-published, non-third party material and sources with real verifiable encyclopedic references.
And stop reading the WP sourcing policies and guidelines to mean what you wish them to mean, to allow this to continue, and read them for both what they actually say, and for the "spirit of the law", which is to demand information flow to the encyclopedia, on BLP subjects, from unbiased third-parties. It is better, for the encyclopedia, and for the reputation of the article, to have one good, independent, third-party source for each fact the article presents, than to have a long list of hearsay sources not acceptable for BLP articles.
Bottom line, this is not an acceptable sourced article, and the arguments for the adequacy of its sourcing would not persuade in a sixth form composition class, let alone as here. Le Prof User:Leprof_7272 73.210.155.96 ( talk) 05:41, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
Using fixed percentage width tables on mobile view is problematic, since the width of the browser window is much more narrow. I have fixed this problem for a second time. Frietjes ( talk) 13:45, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
Why should that happen for other latino actors and her? 2001:569:7671:F100:6806:57DC:A814:F459 ( talk) 01:42, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
This is not an endorsement of this particular article version. Any editor except for the two current edit warriors may modify it. -- NeilN talk to me 03:39, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
I wish not to edit war with any of the members here, but it would appear that a particular user that goes by AnimeDisneylover95 has a major issue with excluding non-credible roles. Listing additional voices when they are in the official credits are fine, but if we're including them based on just a single tweet (which is the only source available), then that isn't eligible for inclusion, in my opinion. I'm not saying that we should exclude tweets in general. But if the role is not named, and "various voices" is the best description you could come up with, then it's quite frankly pointless to include. MizukaS ( talk) 17:05, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
So what I understand is that her WP:TWITTER is acceptable since it's not an extraordinary claim, no reasonable doubt as to authenticity (Vee's twitter account is verified), and that the article isn't primarily based on such sources (Vee's general article has a good number of independent news articles). On articles where the actor is on the borderline of notability, like Amber Lee Connors, I comment out those self-published tweets and Facebook postings, because they vastly outnumber the independent sources needed to establish notability, and they are covered mostly by her resume anyway. So for Cristina Vee in Rock Lee, yes, she can have an entry for Rock Lee, but the tweet can definitely be later replaced by cite episode or news articles.
Now the question of what to fill in for her role. Since she did not specify a role, this should be left blank. The episode(s) should be watched. If credits show her as Girl A, then list "Girl A". If she is credited as Additional voices then list "Additional voices". If her role is Girl A but she is credited as Additional voices, put "Additional voices". In the Notes column, put the episode where she appeared. If the roles or the episodes get to be a significant number, then you can change over to "Various characters". If the credits are all in Japanese or doesn't list English voice actors (happens a lot for her Atlus video games), then leave blank, and put Uncredited in the Notes column.
If her name doesn't appear in the English voice acting credits where she specified and that there was a list provided where it could be reasonable that her name should be there, then yes, pull her entry. For example, if she said she voiced in Disney's Frozen, and you've looked through the cast list for Frozen and she's not listed anywhere, then remove it.
Hope that helps answer your concerns. AngusWOOF ( bark • sniff) 21:26, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
The Rock Lee dub on Hulu doesn't list English credits, so this would have to be verified on home media or on some media that does list such credits. AngusWOOF ( bark • sniff) 21:43, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
I think you both should look this over. Thoroughly. Best, House1090 ( talk) 03:10, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
Secondly their is a reason why
Even if those things are going to resolve this issue, which likely won't. I really don't think this issue should be fight over and bring back up again. It's just a "rinse and repeat" cycle I continue seeing. Besides me that need to chill out, I also think you should also chill out.-- AnimeDisneylover95 ( talk) 03:55, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
I think it's necessary to start up a new discussion and end it as an actual policy so that we could truly put these conflicts to a rest. MizukaS ( talk) 04:11, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
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The RfC was closed early with no action because there is a concurrent discussion about the same topic at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga#When are additional voices eligible for inclusion in voice actor articles?.
Should "Tweets/Posts" via Twitter, Facebook and Instagram be used as sources for projects she's involved in? AnimeDisneylover95 ( talk) 04:40, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please comment in this RFC instead. This one is an unnecessary duplicate of the one at WT:ANIME. MizukaS ( talk) 18:21, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
While Wikipedia and the Wikiproject will still continue to debate if Tweets and Facebook post are considered to be allowed "Till the cows come home." I just feel that they shouldn't be eliminated even if they are the first to mention them and NO other ending credits for a specific film, TV episode and video game, convention bio mention that specific information on the project that actor/actress was involved in.-- AnimeDisneylover95 ( talk) 04:40, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
Ugh, how many discussions are you trying to have? There's one going at WT:ANIME on the same topic. AngusWOOF ( bark • sniff) 16:06, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
Here's a problem with her recent self-published tweet about being in Godzilla: Planet of the Monsters which was released on Netflix recently. She tweeted that she was in the film, but the Netflix credits in English do not show her name, either in the Main Cast section (6 actors with roles) or the Additional Cast section (11 actors, no roles). AngusWOOF ( bark • sniff) 23:28, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
MizukaS, can you find a tweet from Laura Post or someone on staff that can confirm Cristina Vee was indeed in the film? AngusWOOF ( bark • sniff) 23:44, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
TweetLvr, please get the new pictures approved by Commons. Make sure they are clear of copyright violations and that are not just swiped off her Twitter / Instagram feeds. You might be disappointed if they are removed within the month for duplicating content from her official sites. AngusWOOF ( bark • sniff) 16:44, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
Someone explain to me why they delete the term voice actress and put it simply as an actress and director as if Cristina Vee has participated in live action series and movies. 148.0.109.118 ( talk) 23:28, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I'm a little concerned about notability, these roles are fairly minor. -- Core desat 12:17, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Hello. Do you think that Cristina's covers of many songs (anime or otherwise) deserve mention? Her MySpace page is a good source, although this may be original research. Since I just made this account, what can I do better? AussyLibrarian ( talk) 03:49, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
It talks about her YouTube account briefly, but the subscription part is not up to date, she now has over 8,000 Subscribers. I would edit this myself, but it won't let me edit the main article... Moocowsrule ( talk) 23:16, 8 August 2008 (UTC)Moocowsrule
Should her new YouTube account be mentioned? Amazeedayzee ( talk) 04:43, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
I think so. I mentioned it for you so you don't need to do it. Roxy2k7 ( talk) 05:54, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
Well I recently visited her "official" site with Chrome, and it said it's unsafe, but I proceeded. Then I got some nasty malware, maybe some kinda trojan or logger. It's okay to include a link to this site...? Apart from this, the website is outdated, the last messages was posted in 2007. Forgot to sign it. Now here it is. -- Rev L. Snowfox ( talk) 12:56, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 ( talk) 16:16, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
Cristina Valenzuela →
Cristina Vee – Cristina Vee is her stage name and most used name for her anime credits and her web page –
AngusWOOF (
talk) 20:16, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
Netflix has an English version of Gantz:O up. The credits show Vee as Yamasaki [1] (or cite AV media) but according to her twitter [2] "I'm credited as Yamasaki in Gantz: O on Netflix, but I'm not in the version that they have up on the site. Don't know who the actress is". And this tweet [3] where the follow-up discussion speculates there are two dubs.
So then the question becomes: 1) whether she recorded for Gantz:O at all? 2) If so, what was her character? 3) Is there another English dub version? AngusWOOF ( bark • sniff) 03:00, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
I'm sorry kid tennis fan, but seriously!?!?!, you're telling us that we should no longer use Facebook and Twitter sources, just because they harmed Wikipedia standards like you did it with Cristina Vee and later the other voice actors! :(-- AnimeDisneylover95 ( talk) 03:17, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
I can't believe this is the same situation as last time, only this time Leprof 7272 is diminishing and considering Facebook posts and Tweets as Unreliable sources. What is the matter with all of you. Don't you realize that every online article and end credits from a video game or a certain TV show may not credit or even mention the voice actors, that why the tweets and Facebook post were placed here!!!!!!-- AnimeDisneylover95 ( talk) 00:04, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
…for an article for an individual in the entertainment industry that is generally very well done with regard to sourcing. The only reason that the tag appears—and relative to other articles, this one is indeed excellent, but still in need of one last improvement—regards the appearance of non-third party (self-published) sources as the only source for certain biographical facts. Once these ten or so reported facts are independently sourced, the tag can come down.
Note also, to my quick reading, with the DOB sourced only to two tweets, and these on different days, we cannot pick one date, without it being WP:OR. We cannot write things because we personally know something to be true. If two sources are at odds, and they report different things, we either resolve the matter with a better, reliable further source, or we report the uncertainty of the fact. When we have a good source for the DOB, for one date, we can remove the "10 or 11" uncertainty. But as long as the sources express uncertainty, we express uncertainty. (If information from the tweets was omitted that can be quoted, that points to just one date, that is another editorial addition that can be used to narrow the date range.) I will eventually add a better source tag, until an independent statement of DOB appears. Cheers, Le Prof Leprof 7272 ( talk) 13:44, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
Le Prof Leprof 7272 ( talk) 15:25, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
Please do not use back-and-forth reverts to communicate what is still wrong with the edit. Continue discussing on talk pages, here or at mine. AngusWOOF ( bark • sniff) 18:32, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
Per WP:BLPSELFPUB #5, "the article is not based primarily on such sources.", The self-pub sections now are concerning her birth month and day (already discussed above, subject does not object), birth place (not an extraordinary claim, older tweet confirms she was born in the US), current residence (not an extraordinary claim as it is on her web page and her tweets). The convention-published information that would have been linked to self-pub is for the most part gone, references to resumes gone. Other filmography entries can be added with secondary source confirmation. Keeping them out doesn't wreck the biography section. AngusWOOF ( bark • sniff) 20:32, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
This article is currently little more than a fan-piece, in large part replicating self-published information from the title subject, directly and indirectly—directly, from her Facebook and tweets, indirectly, through the biographical information supplied by her or her agents, to various agencies. Attempt to persuade yourself all you wish, this is not encyclopedic writing. Encyclopedic articles rise above the perspectives of individual publications by aggregating the consensus of information from a variety of independent, third-party sources—per WP:VERIFY, with secondary sourced preferred. This article fails to rise even to a bare minimum standard of independent sourcing. It is a shambles. And to argue otherwise is to argue in support of an article that can never be good here (that is, a GA article). So, defend the status quo, and keep it a fan article, or begin researching the title subject, and replace all the self-published, non-third party material and sources with real verifiable encyclopedic references.
And stop reading the WP sourcing policies and guidelines to mean what you wish them to mean, to allow this to continue, and read them for both what they actually say, and for the "spirit of the law", which is to demand information flow to the encyclopedia, on BLP subjects, from unbiased third-parties. It is better, for the encyclopedia, and for the reputation of the article, to have one good, independent, third-party source for each fact the article presents, than to have a long list of hearsay sources not acceptable for BLP articles.
Bottom line, this is not an acceptable sourced article, and the arguments for the adequacy of its sourcing would not persuade in a sixth form composition class, let alone as here. Le Prof User:Leprof_7272 73.210.155.96 ( talk) 05:41, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
Using fixed percentage width tables on mobile view is problematic, since the width of the browser window is much more narrow. I have fixed this problem for a second time. Frietjes ( talk) 13:45, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
Why should that happen for other latino actors and her? 2001:569:7671:F100:6806:57DC:A814:F459 ( talk) 01:42, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
This is not an endorsement of this particular article version. Any editor except for the two current edit warriors may modify it. -- NeilN talk to me 03:39, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
I wish not to edit war with any of the members here, but it would appear that a particular user that goes by AnimeDisneylover95 has a major issue with excluding non-credible roles. Listing additional voices when they are in the official credits are fine, but if we're including them based on just a single tweet (which is the only source available), then that isn't eligible for inclusion, in my opinion. I'm not saying that we should exclude tweets in general. But if the role is not named, and "various voices" is the best description you could come up with, then it's quite frankly pointless to include. MizukaS ( talk) 17:05, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
So what I understand is that her WP:TWITTER is acceptable since it's not an extraordinary claim, no reasonable doubt as to authenticity (Vee's twitter account is verified), and that the article isn't primarily based on such sources (Vee's general article has a good number of independent news articles). On articles where the actor is on the borderline of notability, like Amber Lee Connors, I comment out those self-published tweets and Facebook postings, because they vastly outnumber the independent sources needed to establish notability, and they are covered mostly by her resume anyway. So for Cristina Vee in Rock Lee, yes, she can have an entry for Rock Lee, but the tweet can definitely be later replaced by cite episode or news articles.
Now the question of what to fill in for her role. Since she did not specify a role, this should be left blank. The episode(s) should be watched. If credits show her as Girl A, then list "Girl A". If she is credited as Additional voices then list "Additional voices". If her role is Girl A but she is credited as Additional voices, put "Additional voices". In the Notes column, put the episode where she appeared. If the roles or the episodes get to be a significant number, then you can change over to "Various characters". If the credits are all in Japanese or doesn't list English voice actors (happens a lot for her Atlus video games), then leave blank, and put Uncredited in the Notes column.
If her name doesn't appear in the English voice acting credits where she specified and that there was a list provided where it could be reasonable that her name should be there, then yes, pull her entry. For example, if she said she voiced in Disney's Frozen, and you've looked through the cast list for Frozen and she's not listed anywhere, then remove it.
Hope that helps answer your concerns. AngusWOOF ( bark • sniff) 21:26, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
The Rock Lee dub on Hulu doesn't list English credits, so this would have to be verified on home media or on some media that does list such credits. AngusWOOF ( bark • sniff) 21:43, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
I think you both should look this over. Thoroughly. Best, House1090 ( talk) 03:10, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
Secondly their is a reason why
Even if those things are going to resolve this issue, which likely won't. I really don't think this issue should be fight over and bring back up again. It's just a "rinse and repeat" cycle I continue seeing. Besides me that need to chill out, I also think you should also chill out.-- AnimeDisneylover95 ( talk) 03:55, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
I think it's necessary to start up a new discussion and end it as an actual policy so that we could truly put these conflicts to a rest. MizukaS ( talk) 04:11, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
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The RfC was closed early with no action because there is a concurrent discussion about the same topic at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga#When are additional voices eligible for inclusion in voice actor articles?.
Should "Tweets/Posts" via Twitter, Facebook and Instagram be used as sources for projects she's involved in? AnimeDisneylover95 ( talk) 04:40, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please comment in this RFC instead. This one is an unnecessary duplicate of the one at WT:ANIME. MizukaS ( talk) 18:21, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
While Wikipedia and the Wikiproject will still continue to debate if Tweets and Facebook post are considered to be allowed "Till the cows come home." I just feel that they shouldn't be eliminated even if they are the first to mention them and NO other ending credits for a specific film, TV episode and video game, convention bio mention that specific information on the project that actor/actress was involved in.-- AnimeDisneylover95 ( talk) 04:40, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
Ugh, how many discussions are you trying to have? There's one going at WT:ANIME on the same topic. AngusWOOF ( bark • sniff) 16:06, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
Here's a problem with her recent self-published tweet about being in Godzilla: Planet of the Monsters which was released on Netflix recently. She tweeted that she was in the film, but the Netflix credits in English do not show her name, either in the Main Cast section (6 actors with roles) or the Additional Cast section (11 actors, no roles). AngusWOOF ( bark • sniff) 23:28, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
MizukaS, can you find a tweet from Laura Post or someone on staff that can confirm Cristina Vee was indeed in the film? AngusWOOF ( bark • sniff) 23:44, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
TweetLvr, please get the new pictures approved by Commons. Make sure they are clear of copyright violations and that are not just swiped off her Twitter / Instagram feeds. You might be disappointed if they are removed within the month for duplicating content from her official sites. AngusWOOF ( bark • sniff) 16:44, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
Someone explain to me why they delete the term voice actress and put it simply as an actress and director as if Cristina Vee has participated in live action series and movies. 148.0.109.118 ( talk) 23:28, 3 April 2020 (UTC)