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Attempts by varous partisans to remove any critical responses continue. This is strange considering the generally critical attitude of Crimethinc itself. There are no slander pieces, or even mean-spirited attacks -- but the thin-skinned attempts to reduce this entire entry into an advertorial on behalf of Crimethinc is strange, and should cease.
This reads as boilerplate PR. It is written by participants, and uncritically incorporates their own self-conception. Wikipedia is a participatory encyclopdia... not an advertising service. One would hope that its adherents are interested in more than self-promotion, and would be interested in what people think beyond themselves. This is written in good faith, after yet another restoration of critical reviews of their literature. Future attempts to remove any and all critical citations and reviews should be discussed on the talk page. I'd also like to float the idea of tagging this entry for neutrality. In the Stacks 23:13, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
I thought that the Crimethinc page was pretty NPOV and well written. Even the critical links section was relevant, if a bit excessive given the size of this article. But if this article is going to keep the critical links section, similar content has to be allowed for other political groups. If you are interested in fairness, then In the Stacks has to allow critical links to be posted to entries on other leftist sites. Otherwise we'll just see these revert wars go on forever.
I should note that my position on critical links has been consistent all along. I think Wikipedia articles are improved by having robust links sections, including critical links. But this policy has to be consistent. Chuck0 22:15, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
I am largely responsible for removing the critical reviews. The reason they do not belong in the external links section is because they concern secondary subjects - the individual books/zines - and not the subject itself. From Wikipedia:External links normally to be avoided - "…a website on a specific subject should usually not be linked from an article about a general subject." I think the article could definitely use more secondary sources as it is predominantly reliant on primary sources at present, a NPOV concern, and as such, I have appended the critical reviews to the publications section of the article.
While the link to Situationist International is already in the article and was correctly removed from the See Also section, I think that Infoshop should be linked to from the See Also section. As an external link, it could possibly constitute advertising, but internal wikilinks are never advertising, merely relevant or irrelevant. Since Infoshop, like CrimethInc., is an anarchist publishing organisation, and has hosted material by and reported on CrimethInc. in the past, it certainly qualifies as a related article. However, I'll refrain from restoring the section out of respect for the wishes of other editors until consensus is reached. Skomorokh incite 16:38, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
I fail to understand why considerations of Crimethinc are being removed. These reviews do not simply refer to the books involved, but each engage the overarching philosophy, subculture and practice that goes under the collective authorship of CWC. Removing criticism is f'n insane, frankly, for a group that holds the beliefs they claim to. In the Stacks 20:27, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
This is a rare instance where I'm in agreement with In the Stacks. The removal of the links section makes no sense, nor does the removal of the section on bands that Crimethinc promotes. If somebody want to remove a links section in toto, it's incumbent on the person proposing the move to explain why it's necessary to remvoe a long-standing section and why this entry should deviate from Wikipedia standards. I also agree with In the Stacks that Crimethinc welcomes criticism. They've always had a very open attitude towards criticism. Chuck0 00:44, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
There is a really awesome zine by Robin Banks (get it?) that was released by crimthinc. It is a compilation of a bunch of Calvin and Hobbes cartoons that have political and social themes along with commentary on each cartoon. It is really cool. Should we mention it?
Does anyone else find it ironic that a decentralized anarchist organization has an "official" website? :) Tualha 14:18, 16 Dec 2003 (UTC)\
XD
its not an offical webpage, its just a webpage
or maybe, the fbi?
I know there is some writing about the reason behind the "Inc" in the name... seemed like something ironic to me...
There IS a cell in sweden. Though they update their website infrequently, they do exist. and distribute the european version (which is slightly different than the US one) of "Days of War, Nights of Love" across their continent. http://www.demonbox.com/
the CrimethInc.com site has a list of FAQ, some unanswered questions might be addressed there -- http://www.crimethinc.com/main/faq.html
I've included two links to criticism of Crimethinc from differing perspectives. As per the controversies they've courted, that seems entirely appropriate. If someone sees fit to remove ANY critical notes about this project, they should at least have the decency to explain why. This is not a free advertising service, and a diversity of perspectives seems entirely appropriate. If other critical pieces go up, there is now a "criticism" subhead.
>>It doesn't really matter what "you feel" is relevant or not. That the beauty of unlimited space. What you "feel" is that NO criticism of your pet projects shall be tolerated and you will resort to censorship to maintain a fragile facade of deft cleverness. In terms of maintaining a diversity of perspectives, I've noted that several other political pages on Wikipedia have distinct "criticism" subsections to avoid skirmishes on the main page. What is interesting here is that someone apparently believes that NO criticism whatsoever of Crimethinc shall be posted here, unless they happen to agree with it, and is policing the page through personal attacks and unwarrented deletions.
>> Wikipedia is not an advertising service. With that in mind, what is the protocol when one individual decides to use the definitions as a form of advertising? (that is, to allow no dissenting voice).
hello BLANK!? don't confuse your slander with a dissenting voice. do us all a favor and grow up a bit. you have waaay too much time n your hands.
"turning one's life into a series of moments" in the Intro is a pretty vague/ridiculous point, and one that needs a citation, explaination or both.
The critiques idea is a good one. I'm a fan and a sometime contributor to the crimethinc cause. Ironically some of the most scathing critiques come from the crimethinc "organization" itself. A bit of exploration on their website should render some great ideas for critiques. Crimethinc endlessly critiques itself... give it a shot?-- 24.92.121.133 23:38, 24 February 2007 (UTC)Feeboot
Is Nickelback really part of CrimethInc? That seems like vandalism to me. 140.77.241.11 15:07, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Considering the following guidelines:
Please discuss how exactly my edit is totally unappropriate.
Crimethinc is a publication that represents a forum for "anarcho-primitivism" and "post-left" ideas, just as much as the SI ideological reference that is already there. Wikipedia encourages editors to add wikilinks to the articles that are related to the subject of the article in question. Since these references, more than ideological developments, are topics concerning the publications of this group, I would like to know exactly how my contribution does not represent a helpful improvement for the understanding of the article.
This is a political group that publishes books and pamphlets and those wikilinks point to the articles that further explore its political philosophy. I believe that magazines and distros should not have only a biographical concern in terms of references in their articles. In fact, I think you cannot separate their biography with their political beliefs. It was with this in mind that I edited the article. Maziotis 11:12, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
I may add that both articles "Anarcho-primitivism" and "Post-left anarchy" reference Crimethinc, in the body of the article, as an association known for representing these political movements. I have not myself added these references. Maziotis 11:21, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
You are wrong. It seems you know little about this group and the people who read it (me). I am an anarcho-primitivist and I enjoy reading CrimethInc. to find primary anarcho-primitivist sources. I advise you to read the Hunter Gatherer magazine (Crimethinc publication listed in the article), for example. Also, you may want to read this article itself. Both these movements are mentioned in it, as well as crimethinc. is mentioned in their respective articles, here on wikipedia. You will find it mentioned as an example of a famous organization that supports it. CrimethInc. is actually known as a supporter of these movements.
Someone has already reverted your change. It would only take you 5 minutes to check the articles "anarcho-primitivism" and "post-left anarchy" and see for yourself. Maziotis 03:00, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
You are definitely wrong about me. You said that I was just someone trying to hurt Crimethinc by adding pejorative terms. I don't consider "anarcho-primitivism" and "post left anarchy" pejorative terms at all. I support both. I still think you are wrong, as I find strange that apparently other people have identified Crimethinc to mentioned in the articles of these movements, out of the blue. The anarcho-primitivism interest by this group is large enough so that this group was recognized as an association that supports it, in the article about anarcho-primitivism. I have personally read many anarcho-primitivist articles in this magazine and come to the idea that the group as a whole as aligned with this philosophy at large, just as much as with post-left anarchy as well. You just have to look at the topic of the books listed and read the short political philosophy section. It is right there. "CrimethInc. is often categorized as post-leftist, although it has also largely drawn from situationism, green anarchy, and class struggle anarchism." There seems to be no doubt that "post left anarchy" and "anarcho-primitivism" are two main influences of the philosophy of its contributors. I believe this makes it relevant to point in the article. And by the way, I should point out that I was not the one who added all of these references on wikipedia. You can check the history log.
If we find consensus for this, I believe your experience as a librarian is of no matter here. Maziotis 12:56, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Look, I understand that you are an educated person. We all got it. But wikipedia works by reaching consensus, even when it includes anarchists POV oriented people like me. You see, the rules are not just there to stop uninformed people to participate while extremely brilliant people shed some light on the world. That is helpful to stop the low quality that is sometimes expressed in high school papers, but they are also there to stop POV and original research, which is something that you, like any person, is not immune.
I never claimed that they were an "anarcho-primitivist organization". According to them, they are not even an "anarchist organization". They don't want to label themselves as anything. Yet we have a "see also" section pointing to the "situationist" article. And I think we should. What I argue is that "anarcho-primitivism" is a major topic of influence in their political perspective. Check out the "reading library". They put the hunter gather magazine in the "primary readings". I have read it and I can say it represents clear anarcho-primitivsm propaganda.
As for the links in the wikipedia articles, I don't see what some would benefit in labeling this particular organization, among so many others, as having anarcho-primivist and post-leftist leanings in their writings. I am guessing that they have read what I have read and came to the same conclusion as me. I understand that this does not prove that they do in fact are representatives of this movements. Someone could easily be adding them to the "associations" section in anarcho-primitivism so that one more organization can add to the number. But if in fact they have this meaning, for the reasons I have explained, it seems that them being mentioned shows how notable they are in this way, which is a different thing. The mentioning in this very article of both this associations seems to be yet another example of a reference. I suppose it is always possible to check the history log. If you check mine, you can see that I am an anarcho-primitivist supporter, by the way. Maziotis 14:01, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
In theory, this could help this entry, but it seems to be incomplete and unstyled. is there a way to make it float to the left of the anarchism list? also, why is there no margin around the infobox? I'd like to suggest that this be removed until it looks as it should. Henryshrapnel 18:24, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
This entry is not written in the format of an encyclopedia entry. If people want it to be taken seriously as one, it really needs to be cleaned up of it's point of view biases and propagandha-like language. Otherwise, it's just an essay, or an advertisement, or propagandha, which is neither good nor bad, but it's not an encyclopedia entry.
I believe what you are referring to concerns just one recent edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=CrimethInc.&diff=133457729&oldid=132600543 Maziotis 23:44, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
The relationship of the bands to CrimethInc. is not at all clear from the article, and the section is merely a list of largely unlinked names. I'm moving the section here until informative content can be gleaned from it:
Skomorokh incite 17:02, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
also, this list of musical groups is relevant to CrimethInc., and therefore this article, although there should be some sort of commentary about what this list means. i'll do some research on the comments about being a recor label that crimethinc has made in heartattack and other music zines and try to put something together for this section. Henryshrapnel 21:51, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
I prodded umlaut, although in retrospect I kind of wish I hadn't. I don't really want the articles deleted but right now they're totally unsourced. The fact that there could be a dispute over whether umlaut actually existed or if it was just Catharsis having a laugh kind of underscores this. If sources couldn't be found for Catharsis, what are the chances for these other bands?-- P4k 23:18, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
I don't know who's working on this article now, but this book may be useful to you. It's published by SUNY Press, so it's reliable, although obviously that doesn't mean what it's accurate.-- P4k 17:46, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
The one thing I can see being brought up against GA status is the shortness of the "music" section, and the one sentence paragraph in the "Participants" section. Murderbike ( talk) 22:16, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
This pdf has a review of Samsara from Heartattack fwiw. You might be able to find other stuff on that site. P4k ( talk) 02:38, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
It might be hard to find copies of Inside Front, but that zine, arguably the beginning of CrimethInc., was one of the most outwardly anarchist punk/hardcore zines of the 90s. Also, Zegota, Catharsis, and Requiem have played major parts in furthering the CrimethInc. project. Residual narratives from their tours and even songs can be found in CrimethInc. texts here and there. Henryshrapnel ( talk) 00:09, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the review Jack, I think your criticisms are justified. I'll try and get a group of editors together and improve it to GA standard. Regards, скоморохъ 14:41, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
User:In the Stacks, aside from incomprehensively duplicating {{ CrimethInc.}} and 3 existing references (Brandt, Ryan, Lee), restored the following external links to the article:
The first seems to be some non-notable individual's thoughts on the userspace of Resist.ca - I don't see how this meets any of our criteria for inclusion any more than if any random person wrote a blog post on the subject.
The second is a salutary review of a CrimethInc. book that does not have anything particularly novel or interesting to say. That this was restored on a rationale of including critical views is confusing. Please offer your views on the appropriateness of these links. скоморохъ 20:41, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Ok, In the Stacks has demonstrably no interest in reading either the article or the talkpage. In the spirit of good faith I have restored the two dubious links mentioned above, pending a justification. If no justification of the inclusion of these (CrimethInc.-friendly) links is forthcoming here, I will remove them as neither I nor Murderbike, the only two editors seemingly willing to discuss the matter, favour their inclusion. скоморохъ 23:35, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
As no justification for including the two favourable reviews of Recipes for Disaster by Indymedia and Anderberg as external links, I am removing them as proposed above. скоморохъ 18:54, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
I've posted a request here for uninvolved editors to weigh in and resolve this dispute. скоморохъ 17:50, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
Comment from User:Igorberger, taken from User talk:Igorberger:
You do not need to repeat the same links from references in external links, that is Spam. The reason for putting the links in reference is commonsense, to support the content of the article. If the editor is unwilling to understand the editing article consensus take the issue to ANI.
— Igor Berger ( talk) 22:26, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
The article has improved much since the last nomination.
IntheStacks has once again readded all those links against consensus, with a note to take it to the talk page before removing. This is totally absurd as consensus very clearly shows that the links are innappropriate. IntheStacks, I'm sorry that consensus is against you, but you're going to have to live with it. Please stop, now. Murderbike ( talk) 00:08, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
I would second the request for a peer review. Murderbike, along with a couple of other anarchist activists have attempted to use this page as an advertising block. I believe the entire text of the page is little more than the self-regard of this grouping, and that from the referenced to (unsourced) anarchist blogs to their own materials, it totally confuses what's going on inside their heads with their place in the world. I have zero interest in an edit-war, and say this in all good faith. Peer review, or some impartial review by uninvolved people would really be the best solution. I would like to see a peer review that doesn't include the anarchist information minders who have been actively recruiting their compatriots to control this page. In the Stacks ( talk) 13:39, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
WRT the critical external links: no doubt the question of whether the links should remain is not as simple as some editors make out. However, could I ask that the editors who believe the links should stay refrain from pointing out in every link summary and all over the talk page that the editors who oppose them are anarchists? It's at most irrelevant and at worst an ad hominem attack. Simply decide whether the links are relevant and whether they lead to media which is in accordance with policy. The politics of the people who add or remove them are not at question here. The Wednesday Island ( talk) 01:40, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
The "Reception among anarchists" section is getting to be too long. This section either needs to be trimmed or deleted entirely. Current Wikipedia practices are hostile towards organizational entries having sections critical of the organization being described. Chuck0 ( talk) 00:53, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Attempts by varous partisans to remove any critical responses continue. This is strange considering the generally critical attitude of Crimethinc itself. There are no slander pieces, or even mean-spirited attacks -- but the thin-skinned attempts to reduce this entire entry into an advertorial on behalf of Crimethinc is strange, and should cease.
This reads as boilerplate PR. It is written by participants, and uncritically incorporates their own self-conception. Wikipedia is a participatory encyclopdia... not an advertising service. One would hope that its adherents are interested in more than self-promotion, and would be interested in what people think beyond themselves. This is written in good faith, after yet another restoration of critical reviews of their literature. Future attempts to remove any and all critical citations and reviews should be discussed on the talk page. I'd also like to float the idea of tagging this entry for neutrality. In the Stacks 23:13, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
I thought that the Crimethinc page was pretty NPOV and well written. Even the critical links section was relevant, if a bit excessive given the size of this article. But if this article is going to keep the critical links section, similar content has to be allowed for other political groups. If you are interested in fairness, then In the Stacks has to allow critical links to be posted to entries on other leftist sites. Otherwise we'll just see these revert wars go on forever.
I should note that my position on critical links has been consistent all along. I think Wikipedia articles are improved by having robust links sections, including critical links. But this policy has to be consistent. Chuck0 22:15, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
I am largely responsible for removing the critical reviews. The reason they do not belong in the external links section is because they concern secondary subjects - the individual books/zines - and not the subject itself. From Wikipedia:External links normally to be avoided - "…a website on a specific subject should usually not be linked from an article about a general subject." I think the article could definitely use more secondary sources as it is predominantly reliant on primary sources at present, a NPOV concern, and as such, I have appended the critical reviews to the publications section of the article.
While the link to Situationist International is already in the article and was correctly removed from the See Also section, I think that Infoshop should be linked to from the See Also section. As an external link, it could possibly constitute advertising, but internal wikilinks are never advertising, merely relevant or irrelevant. Since Infoshop, like CrimethInc., is an anarchist publishing organisation, and has hosted material by and reported on CrimethInc. in the past, it certainly qualifies as a related article. However, I'll refrain from restoring the section out of respect for the wishes of other editors until consensus is reached. Skomorokh incite 16:38, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
I fail to understand why considerations of Crimethinc are being removed. These reviews do not simply refer to the books involved, but each engage the overarching philosophy, subculture and practice that goes under the collective authorship of CWC. Removing criticism is f'n insane, frankly, for a group that holds the beliefs they claim to. In the Stacks 20:27, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
This is a rare instance where I'm in agreement with In the Stacks. The removal of the links section makes no sense, nor does the removal of the section on bands that Crimethinc promotes. If somebody want to remove a links section in toto, it's incumbent on the person proposing the move to explain why it's necessary to remvoe a long-standing section and why this entry should deviate from Wikipedia standards. I also agree with In the Stacks that Crimethinc welcomes criticism. They've always had a very open attitude towards criticism. Chuck0 00:44, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
There is a really awesome zine by Robin Banks (get it?) that was released by crimthinc. It is a compilation of a bunch of Calvin and Hobbes cartoons that have political and social themes along with commentary on each cartoon. It is really cool. Should we mention it?
Does anyone else find it ironic that a decentralized anarchist organization has an "official" website? :) Tualha 14:18, 16 Dec 2003 (UTC)\
XD
its not an offical webpage, its just a webpage
or maybe, the fbi?
I know there is some writing about the reason behind the "Inc" in the name... seemed like something ironic to me...
There IS a cell in sweden. Though they update their website infrequently, they do exist. and distribute the european version (which is slightly different than the US one) of "Days of War, Nights of Love" across their continent. http://www.demonbox.com/
the CrimethInc.com site has a list of FAQ, some unanswered questions might be addressed there -- http://www.crimethinc.com/main/faq.html
I've included two links to criticism of Crimethinc from differing perspectives. As per the controversies they've courted, that seems entirely appropriate. If someone sees fit to remove ANY critical notes about this project, they should at least have the decency to explain why. This is not a free advertising service, and a diversity of perspectives seems entirely appropriate. If other critical pieces go up, there is now a "criticism" subhead.
>>It doesn't really matter what "you feel" is relevant or not. That the beauty of unlimited space. What you "feel" is that NO criticism of your pet projects shall be tolerated and you will resort to censorship to maintain a fragile facade of deft cleverness. In terms of maintaining a diversity of perspectives, I've noted that several other political pages on Wikipedia have distinct "criticism" subsections to avoid skirmishes on the main page. What is interesting here is that someone apparently believes that NO criticism whatsoever of Crimethinc shall be posted here, unless they happen to agree with it, and is policing the page through personal attacks and unwarrented deletions.
>> Wikipedia is not an advertising service. With that in mind, what is the protocol when one individual decides to use the definitions as a form of advertising? (that is, to allow no dissenting voice).
hello BLANK!? don't confuse your slander with a dissenting voice. do us all a favor and grow up a bit. you have waaay too much time n your hands.
"turning one's life into a series of moments" in the Intro is a pretty vague/ridiculous point, and one that needs a citation, explaination or both.
The critiques idea is a good one. I'm a fan and a sometime contributor to the crimethinc cause. Ironically some of the most scathing critiques come from the crimethinc "organization" itself. A bit of exploration on their website should render some great ideas for critiques. Crimethinc endlessly critiques itself... give it a shot?-- 24.92.121.133 23:38, 24 February 2007 (UTC)Feeboot
Is Nickelback really part of CrimethInc? That seems like vandalism to me. 140.77.241.11 15:07, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Considering the following guidelines:
Please discuss how exactly my edit is totally unappropriate.
Crimethinc is a publication that represents a forum for "anarcho-primitivism" and "post-left" ideas, just as much as the SI ideological reference that is already there. Wikipedia encourages editors to add wikilinks to the articles that are related to the subject of the article in question. Since these references, more than ideological developments, are topics concerning the publications of this group, I would like to know exactly how my contribution does not represent a helpful improvement for the understanding of the article.
This is a political group that publishes books and pamphlets and those wikilinks point to the articles that further explore its political philosophy. I believe that magazines and distros should not have only a biographical concern in terms of references in their articles. In fact, I think you cannot separate their biography with their political beliefs. It was with this in mind that I edited the article. Maziotis 11:12, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
I may add that both articles "Anarcho-primitivism" and "Post-left anarchy" reference Crimethinc, in the body of the article, as an association known for representing these political movements. I have not myself added these references. Maziotis 11:21, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
You are wrong. It seems you know little about this group and the people who read it (me). I am an anarcho-primitivist and I enjoy reading CrimethInc. to find primary anarcho-primitivist sources. I advise you to read the Hunter Gatherer magazine (Crimethinc publication listed in the article), for example. Also, you may want to read this article itself. Both these movements are mentioned in it, as well as crimethinc. is mentioned in their respective articles, here on wikipedia. You will find it mentioned as an example of a famous organization that supports it. CrimethInc. is actually known as a supporter of these movements.
Someone has already reverted your change. It would only take you 5 minutes to check the articles "anarcho-primitivism" and "post-left anarchy" and see for yourself. Maziotis 03:00, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
You are definitely wrong about me. You said that I was just someone trying to hurt Crimethinc by adding pejorative terms. I don't consider "anarcho-primitivism" and "post left anarchy" pejorative terms at all. I support both. I still think you are wrong, as I find strange that apparently other people have identified Crimethinc to mentioned in the articles of these movements, out of the blue. The anarcho-primitivism interest by this group is large enough so that this group was recognized as an association that supports it, in the article about anarcho-primitivism. I have personally read many anarcho-primitivist articles in this magazine and come to the idea that the group as a whole as aligned with this philosophy at large, just as much as with post-left anarchy as well. You just have to look at the topic of the books listed and read the short political philosophy section. It is right there. "CrimethInc. is often categorized as post-leftist, although it has also largely drawn from situationism, green anarchy, and class struggle anarchism." There seems to be no doubt that "post left anarchy" and "anarcho-primitivism" are two main influences of the philosophy of its contributors. I believe this makes it relevant to point in the article. And by the way, I should point out that I was not the one who added all of these references on wikipedia. You can check the history log.
If we find consensus for this, I believe your experience as a librarian is of no matter here. Maziotis 12:56, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Look, I understand that you are an educated person. We all got it. But wikipedia works by reaching consensus, even when it includes anarchists POV oriented people like me. You see, the rules are not just there to stop uninformed people to participate while extremely brilliant people shed some light on the world. That is helpful to stop the low quality that is sometimes expressed in high school papers, but they are also there to stop POV and original research, which is something that you, like any person, is not immune.
I never claimed that they were an "anarcho-primitivist organization". According to them, they are not even an "anarchist organization". They don't want to label themselves as anything. Yet we have a "see also" section pointing to the "situationist" article. And I think we should. What I argue is that "anarcho-primitivism" is a major topic of influence in their political perspective. Check out the "reading library". They put the hunter gather magazine in the "primary readings". I have read it and I can say it represents clear anarcho-primitivsm propaganda.
As for the links in the wikipedia articles, I don't see what some would benefit in labeling this particular organization, among so many others, as having anarcho-primivist and post-leftist leanings in their writings. I am guessing that they have read what I have read and came to the same conclusion as me. I understand that this does not prove that they do in fact are representatives of this movements. Someone could easily be adding them to the "associations" section in anarcho-primitivism so that one more organization can add to the number. But if in fact they have this meaning, for the reasons I have explained, it seems that them being mentioned shows how notable they are in this way, which is a different thing. The mentioning in this very article of both this associations seems to be yet another example of a reference. I suppose it is always possible to check the history log. If you check mine, you can see that I am an anarcho-primitivist supporter, by the way. Maziotis 14:01, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
In theory, this could help this entry, but it seems to be incomplete and unstyled. is there a way to make it float to the left of the anarchism list? also, why is there no margin around the infobox? I'd like to suggest that this be removed until it looks as it should. Henryshrapnel 18:24, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
This entry is not written in the format of an encyclopedia entry. If people want it to be taken seriously as one, it really needs to be cleaned up of it's point of view biases and propagandha-like language. Otherwise, it's just an essay, or an advertisement, or propagandha, which is neither good nor bad, but it's not an encyclopedia entry.
I believe what you are referring to concerns just one recent edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=CrimethInc.&diff=133457729&oldid=132600543 Maziotis 23:44, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
The relationship of the bands to CrimethInc. is not at all clear from the article, and the section is merely a list of largely unlinked names. I'm moving the section here until informative content can be gleaned from it:
Skomorokh incite 17:02, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
also, this list of musical groups is relevant to CrimethInc., and therefore this article, although there should be some sort of commentary about what this list means. i'll do some research on the comments about being a recor label that crimethinc has made in heartattack and other music zines and try to put something together for this section. Henryshrapnel 21:51, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
I prodded umlaut, although in retrospect I kind of wish I hadn't. I don't really want the articles deleted but right now they're totally unsourced. The fact that there could be a dispute over whether umlaut actually existed or if it was just Catharsis having a laugh kind of underscores this. If sources couldn't be found for Catharsis, what are the chances for these other bands?-- P4k 23:18, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
I don't know who's working on this article now, but this book may be useful to you. It's published by SUNY Press, so it's reliable, although obviously that doesn't mean what it's accurate.-- P4k 17:46, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
The one thing I can see being brought up against GA status is the shortness of the "music" section, and the one sentence paragraph in the "Participants" section. Murderbike ( talk) 22:16, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
This pdf has a review of Samsara from Heartattack fwiw. You might be able to find other stuff on that site. P4k ( talk) 02:38, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
It might be hard to find copies of Inside Front, but that zine, arguably the beginning of CrimethInc., was one of the most outwardly anarchist punk/hardcore zines of the 90s. Also, Zegota, Catharsis, and Requiem have played major parts in furthering the CrimethInc. project. Residual narratives from their tours and even songs can be found in CrimethInc. texts here and there. Henryshrapnel ( talk) 00:09, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the review Jack, I think your criticisms are justified. I'll try and get a group of editors together and improve it to GA standard. Regards, скоморохъ 14:41, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
User:In the Stacks, aside from incomprehensively duplicating {{ CrimethInc.}} and 3 existing references (Brandt, Ryan, Lee), restored the following external links to the article:
The first seems to be some non-notable individual's thoughts on the userspace of Resist.ca - I don't see how this meets any of our criteria for inclusion any more than if any random person wrote a blog post on the subject.
The second is a salutary review of a CrimethInc. book that does not have anything particularly novel or interesting to say. That this was restored on a rationale of including critical views is confusing. Please offer your views on the appropriateness of these links. скоморохъ 20:41, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Ok, In the Stacks has demonstrably no interest in reading either the article or the talkpage. In the spirit of good faith I have restored the two dubious links mentioned above, pending a justification. If no justification of the inclusion of these (CrimethInc.-friendly) links is forthcoming here, I will remove them as neither I nor Murderbike, the only two editors seemingly willing to discuss the matter, favour their inclusion. скоморохъ 23:35, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
As no justification for including the two favourable reviews of Recipes for Disaster by Indymedia and Anderberg as external links, I am removing them as proposed above. скоморохъ 18:54, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
I've posted a request here for uninvolved editors to weigh in and resolve this dispute. скоморохъ 17:50, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
Comment from User:Igorberger, taken from User talk:Igorberger:
You do not need to repeat the same links from references in external links, that is Spam. The reason for putting the links in reference is commonsense, to support the content of the article. If the editor is unwilling to understand the editing article consensus take the issue to ANI.
— Igor Berger ( talk) 22:26, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
The article has improved much since the last nomination.
IntheStacks has once again readded all those links against consensus, with a note to take it to the talk page before removing. This is totally absurd as consensus very clearly shows that the links are innappropriate. IntheStacks, I'm sorry that consensus is against you, but you're going to have to live with it. Please stop, now. Murderbike ( talk) 00:08, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
I would second the request for a peer review. Murderbike, along with a couple of other anarchist activists have attempted to use this page as an advertising block. I believe the entire text of the page is little more than the self-regard of this grouping, and that from the referenced to (unsourced) anarchist blogs to their own materials, it totally confuses what's going on inside their heads with their place in the world. I have zero interest in an edit-war, and say this in all good faith. Peer review, or some impartial review by uninvolved people would really be the best solution. I would like to see a peer review that doesn't include the anarchist information minders who have been actively recruiting their compatriots to control this page. In the Stacks ( talk) 13:39, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
WRT the critical external links: no doubt the question of whether the links should remain is not as simple as some editors make out. However, could I ask that the editors who believe the links should stay refrain from pointing out in every link summary and all over the talk page that the editors who oppose them are anarchists? It's at most irrelevant and at worst an ad hominem attack. Simply decide whether the links are relevant and whether they lead to media which is in accordance with policy. The politics of the people who add or remove them are not at question here. The Wednesday Island ( talk) 01:40, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
The "Reception among anarchists" section is getting to be too long. This section either needs to be trimmed or deleted entirely. Current Wikipedia practices are hostile towards organizational entries having sections critical of the organization being described. Chuck0 ( talk) 00:53, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
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