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I agree with this archived comment /info/en/?search=Talk:Cousin/Archive_4#What_a_strange_article , but still see a complete dearth of discussion about the concept of cousin in cultures (family leadership/subordination role, marriage practices, inheritance, gender differences within the family and culture, etc, etc). If there is one, I don't see it. If there is none, perhaps an article could be created addressing these concerns and this article could be renamed Cousin (genealogy)? Thank you, Wordreader ( talk) 05:18, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
there's nothing i can do about it...there really are 3 different kinds of double second cousins, not 2 as the article states....details are here: https://relatedhowagain.wordpress.com/2012/06/10/71-doubling-down/ chart 248 especially...the third kind occurs like this: A and B are double second cousins when A's father is a first cousin of B's father one one side of A's family, and first cousin of B's mother on the other side of A's family...since this kind is unilineal for A and bilineal for B, i call it sequilineal...half-way between uni and bi... further, there are 6 kinds of double third cousins...the link provided explains that too...that i wrote it doesn't matter...and it's not original research but "true upon inspection" ... 2601:18E:C501:5FE2:7ACA:39FF:FEB2:EFCB ( talk) 15:59, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
"Non-blood relations Stepcousins are either stepchildren of an individual's aunt or uncle, nieces and nephews of one's stepparent, or the children of one's parent's stepsibling. Cousins in law are the cousins of a person's spouse or the spouse of a person's cousin. Neither of these relationships have consanguinity."
Whether or not steprelations involve consanguinity depends on how you define it. Suppose a widower marries his brother's widow. If a stepmother is defined as a "new" mother then her children are the widower's stepchildren as well as his nephews and nieces. They are also the widower's children's stepsiblings as well as their first cousins. If consanguinity supersedes steprelationships, then the children are only cousins, not stepsiblings, although the widow must still be a stepmother, since she is not a blood relation of the widower or his children. 96.237.184.103 ( talk) 18:01, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
My only point is this: while there are kinship relations, like step-relations for instance, that do not intrinsically involve consanguinity as a condition, there are NO kinship relationships that can be correctly called “never consanguineous”…and saying “not consanguineous” can very easily be construed as “never consanguineous,” which is incorrect… 71.162.113.226 ( talk) 13:48, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
Commonly, "cousin" refers to a "first cousin" or equivalently "full cousin", people whose most recent common ancestor is a grandparent.
this is wrong...half-cousins (half-first cousins, the children of half-siblings) share a grandparent as their most recent common ancestor...do you really think half-cousin is the same thing as full cousin?... 96.237.184.103 ( talk) 17:19, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
When you say a relative is a 1st cousin 1x removed, would it not be more specific to say if it was removed up or down a generation. Your parent’s 1st cousin and your 1st cousin’s child are both your 1st cousin 1x removed but are clearly of different generations. From the other person’s perspective the up or down part is reversed, but this is no different to parent and child, or niece/nephew and aunt/uncle. So your parent’s 1st cousin is your 1st cousin 1x removed UP, and your 1st cousin’s child is your 1st cousin 1x removed DOWN. Would that not make sense? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.24.61.183 ( talk) 06:26, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
The Wiki equivalent is "Verwandtschaftsbeziehung" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stephanie Do ( talk • contribs) 20:39, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
Link to de:Verwandtschaftsbeziehung#Cousin und Cousine added; not via Wikidata because it can't handle cases where there isn't a one-to-one relationship. -- David Biddulph ( talk) 21:02, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
There have been some recent changes to this article where people have been putting up unsourced information in the example section. First this is the examples section. No new material should be being introduced into the examples section. Some of this information may be relevant to the section that talks about the specific relationship that is being given an example of. Second much of this information is not relevant. And doesn't help illuminate the types of relationships being discussed. Some of the words are not coming enough to be discussed in this setting. This is not a dictionary this is an encyclopedia article. the examples section is far too long already and makes the article hard to read. Bobshmit ( talk) 13:09, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
I nominate this as the Worst-Written Article in Wikipedia. rowley ( talk) 20:59, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
Maybe- it does seem to be one of those articles that has deteriorated a lot from a high point of detail and quality probably years ago. For example, the current visuals are good additions but at least two charts of cousin relationships in the past were better and have disappeared in succession. They were the reasons I checked in with this article today, only to find them gone. Happens more and more. Random noter ( talk) 22:34, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
The article states "Parallel and cross cousins on the other hand are reciprocal relationships". I grant parallel cousins are reciprocal relationships...but why are cross cousins defined as reciprocal? The daughter of my mother's brother would be my maternal cousin but I would be her paternal cousin. Not reciprocal.
--Meteor — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.110.195.254 ( talk) 14:54, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
--Meteor — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.16.124.119 ( talk) 01:42, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
After an extensive search, I can find no references to this co-cousin-in law that is not from a wiki, or someone claiming to have invented the word on redit. Can someone else look into it for me. 198.151.8.4 ( talk) 13:09, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
While I’m happy to see the mention of second uncle/aunt/nephew/niece used for first cousin once removed…
I understand your concern about kinship terms in foreign languages. But the use of "second uncle" in Spanish is of special significance since in the US anyway the Spanish language is becoming more widespread...press "2" etc. I suspect the use (albeit infrequent) of the term in American English, both past and present, is due to the influence of the Spanish language, which certainly has had an influence on vocabulary in general, and place names in particular. The other factor is that the "second uncle" system is much more logical than the standard English "cousin once removed" and specifically because it distinguishes between the older and younger generations, which "cousin once removed" does not, unless you tack on the cumbersome ascending/descending or up/down terminology. 71.162.113.226 ( talk) 13:56, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
Wiktionary says “cousin uncle” is used by Mennonites, and in India and Pakistan. It has nothing for “second uncle.” I’ll change the article to tie “cousin uncle” in with those three, and “second uncle” with Spanish. I only mentioned American English because it has always had a special connection to Spanish, but the Spanish usage itself is of course of world wide significance. I can't imagine anybody doubting they really say that in Spanish... 71.162.113.226 ( talk) 16:40, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
Well, I have examples of the use of "second uncle" in English on my kinship/genealogy blog, but honestly if Wiki isn't interested, I'm not either. I don't consider Wiki a reliable source for anything, anyway...just a starting point for further research. Almost sorry I even brought it up. The world is bigger than Wikipedia.
71.162.113.226 (
talk)
22:00, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
My eyes just glaze over trying to make sense of what has been written here. The diagrams should help, but because the text is so cluttered and badly structured, the figures can't really rescue the article. The earlier sections, at least, really need a total rewrite by somebody who both understands the subject matter, and can write clearly. I have studied social anthropology but still find this article very difficult to understand. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.148.131.237 ( talk) 16:01, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
I was trying to use this article to understand what 1st/2nd cousins vs once/twice removed and I left this article more confused than before I read it. I found the diagram particularly unhelpful.... Sorry to the author (whom I'm sure had good intentions) but this diagram is only understandable to those that already know how this works, in my opinion. If you search wikitionary for "first cousin once removed" all I did was look at that diagram, didn't read one word of the article mind you, and I immediately understood how it worked. This could all just be me but just flagging this to the authors. Boojit ( talk) 01:12, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
What does the sentence “Closely related couples have more children.” under “Consanguinity - Reproduction” mean? It does not seem true and has no relation to the following.
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Cousin article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 |
This article was nominated for deletion on 4 April 2012 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep. |
This
level-4 vital article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Other talk page banners | |||
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I agree with this archived comment /info/en/?search=Talk:Cousin/Archive_4#What_a_strange_article , but still see a complete dearth of discussion about the concept of cousin in cultures (family leadership/subordination role, marriage practices, inheritance, gender differences within the family and culture, etc, etc). If there is one, I don't see it. If there is none, perhaps an article could be created addressing these concerns and this article could be renamed Cousin (genealogy)? Thank you, Wordreader ( talk) 05:18, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
there's nothing i can do about it...there really are 3 different kinds of double second cousins, not 2 as the article states....details are here: https://relatedhowagain.wordpress.com/2012/06/10/71-doubling-down/ chart 248 especially...the third kind occurs like this: A and B are double second cousins when A's father is a first cousin of B's father one one side of A's family, and first cousin of B's mother on the other side of A's family...since this kind is unilineal for A and bilineal for B, i call it sequilineal...half-way between uni and bi... further, there are 6 kinds of double third cousins...the link provided explains that too...that i wrote it doesn't matter...and it's not original research but "true upon inspection" ... 2601:18E:C501:5FE2:7ACA:39FF:FEB2:EFCB ( talk) 15:59, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
"Non-blood relations Stepcousins are either stepchildren of an individual's aunt or uncle, nieces and nephews of one's stepparent, or the children of one's parent's stepsibling. Cousins in law are the cousins of a person's spouse or the spouse of a person's cousin. Neither of these relationships have consanguinity."
Whether or not steprelations involve consanguinity depends on how you define it. Suppose a widower marries his brother's widow. If a stepmother is defined as a "new" mother then her children are the widower's stepchildren as well as his nephews and nieces. They are also the widower's children's stepsiblings as well as their first cousins. If consanguinity supersedes steprelationships, then the children are only cousins, not stepsiblings, although the widow must still be a stepmother, since she is not a blood relation of the widower or his children. 96.237.184.103 ( talk) 18:01, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
My only point is this: while there are kinship relations, like step-relations for instance, that do not intrinsically involve consanguinity as a condition, there are NO kinship relationships that can be correctly called “never consanguineous”…and saying “not consanguineous” can very easily be construed as “never consanguineous,” which is incorrect… 71.162.113.226 ( talk) 13:48, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
Commonly, "cousin" refers to a "first cousin" or equivalently "full cousin", people whose most recent common ancestor is a grandparent.
this is wrong...half-cousins (half-first cousins, the children of half-siblings) share a grandparent as their most recent common ancestor...do you really think half-cousin is the same thing as full cousin?... 96.237.184.103 ( talk) 17:19, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
When you say a relative is a 1st cousin 1x removed, would it not be more specific to say if it was removed up or down a generation. Your parent’s 1st cousin and your 1st cousin’s child are both your 1st cousin 1x removed but are clearly of different generations. From the other person’s perspective the up or down part is reversed, but this is no different to parent and child, or niece/nephew and aunt/uncle. So your parent’s 1st cousin is your 1st cousin 1x removed UP, and your 1st cousin’s child is your 1st cousin 1x removed DOWN. Would that not make sense? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.24.61.183 ( talk) 06:26, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
The Wiki equivalent is "Verwandtschaftsbeziehung" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stephanie Do ( talk • contribs) 20:39, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
Link to de:Verwandtschaftsbeziehung#Cousin und Cousine added; not via Wikidata because it can't handle cases where there isn't a one-to-one relationship. -- David Biddulph ( talk) 21:02, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
There have been some recent changes to this article where people have been putting up unsourced information in the example section. First this is the examples section. No new material should be being introduced into the examples section. Some of this information may be relevant to the section that talks about the specific relationship that is being given an example of. Second much of this information is not relevant. And doesn't help illuminate the types of relationships being discussed. Some of the words are not coming enough to be discussed in this setting. This is not a dictionary this is an encyclopedia article. the examples section is far too long already and makes the article hard to read. Bobshmit ( talk) 13:09, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
I nominate this as the Worst-Written Article in Wikipedia. rowley ( talk) 20:59, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
Maybe- it does seem to be one of those articles that has deteriorated a lot from a high point of detail and quality probably years ago. For example, the current visuals are good additions but at least two charts of cousin relationships in the past were better and have disappeared in succession. They were the reasons I checked in with this article today, only to find them gone. Happens more and more. Random noter ( talk) 22:34, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
The article states "Parallel and cross cousins on the other hand are reciprocal relationships". I grant parallel cousins are reciprocal relationships...but why are cross cousins defined as reciprocal? The daughter of my mother's brother would be my maternal cousin but I would be her paternal cousin. Not reciprocal.
--Meteor — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.110.195.254 ( talk) 14:54, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
--Meteor — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.16.124.119 ( talk) 01:42, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
After an extensive search, I can find no references to this co-cousin-in law that is not from a wiki, or someone claiming to have invented the word on redit. Can someone else look into it for me. 198.151.8.4 ( talk) 13:09, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
While I’m happy to see the mention of second uncle/aunt/nephew/niece used for first cousin once removed…
I understand your concern about kinship terms in foreign languages. But the use of "second uncle" in Spanish is of special significance since in the US anyway the Spanish language is becoming more widespread...press "2" etc. I suspect the use (albeit infrequent) of the term in American English, both past and present, is due to the influence of the Spanish language, which certainly has had an influence on vocabulary in general, and place names in particular. The other factor is that the "second uncle" system is much more logical than the standard English "cousin once removed" and specifically because it distinguishes between the older and younger generations, which "cousin once removed" does not, unless you tack on the cumbersome ascending/descending or up/down terminology. 71.162.113.226 ( talk) 13:56, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
Wiktionary says “cousin uncle” is used by Mennonites, and in India and Pakistan. It has nothing for “second uncle.” I’ll change the article to tie “cousin uncle” in with those three, and “second uncle” with Spanish. I only mentioned American English because it has always had a special connection to Spanish, but the Spanish usage itself is of course of world wide significance. I can't imagine anybody doubting they really say that in Spanish... 71.162.113.226 ( talk) 16:40, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
Well, I have examples of the use of "second uncle" in English on my kinship/genealogy blog, but honestly if Wiki isn't interested, I'm not either. I don't consider Wiki a reliable source for anything, anyway...just a starting point for further research. Almost sorry I even brought it up. The world is bigger than Wikipedia.
71.162.113.226 (
talk)
22:00, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
My eyes just glaze over trying to make sense of what has been written here. The diagrams should help, but because the text is so cluttered and badly structured, the figures can't really rescue the article. The earlier sections, at least, really need a total rewrite by somebody who both understands the subject matter, and can write clearly. I have studied social anthropology but still find this article very difficult to understand. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.148.131.237 ( talk) 16:01, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
I was trying to use this article to understand what 1st/2nd cousins vs once/twice removed and I left this article more confused than before I read it. I found the diagram particularly unhelpful.... Sorry to the author (whom I'm sure had good intentions) but this diagram is only understandable to those that already know how this works, in my opinion. If you search wikitionary for "first cousin once removed" all I did was look at that diagram, didn't read one word of the article mind you, and I immediately understood how it worked. This could all just be me but just flagging this to the authors. Boojit ( talk) 01:12, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
What does the sentence “Closely related couples have more children.” under “Consanguinity - Reproduction” mean? It does not seem true and has no relation to the following.