![]() | Disambiguation | |||
|
It seems to me that dividing the Cordillera Oriental of the Andes up by country is counter-productive to adequately describing the geography of the Andes which doesn't respect country borders. A country based breakdown also tends to encourage POV edits by nationalists. I suggest that the main article about the Cordillera Oriental of the Andes should be here instead of a disambiguation page. Then individual ranges in the Cordillera Oriental could each have there own article, by range name and extension, not country. What do you all think? -- Bejnar 18:40, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I had multiple articles merged into one more-or-less cohesive article for Cordillera Oriental, Cordillera Occidental, and Cordillera Central, but the common sense approach was reverted and we are now back at 9 or 10 different articles for what should only be three articles. If there are any substantive reasons for not performing the merger, here is the place to state the claims. Since this merge has the same criteria for the three different ranges, all three proposals can be addressed here, instead of a separate talk for each of the three proposals, which should all have the same arguments. wbfergus Talk 13:36, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Let´s take it to RFC.. you just can´t make up an article like that.. tell me where can I find a source in which all cordilleras are merged!!-- Zer0~Gravity (Roger - Out) 12:09, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
If these are shared by for example by two countries Cordillera Oriental (Colombia-Venezuela) I can't see any other solution. With sufficient information this will eventually split. --
Zer0~Gravity
(Roger - Out)
13:05, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
Well you seem not to understand my point, lets RfC. Your proposal is just unencyclopedic. You are trying to create an article that could pretty well be explained in the Andes better than in a mixed up article. I am asking you to please give me a reference.. a WP:RS that shows an article the way you want it.
You provided these, and these show Cordilleras explaining an specific country or pointing nowhere..
-- Zer0~Gravity (Roger - Out) 15:57, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
I disagree.. Again the Colombian cordilleras have nothing to do with the ones in Ecuador!!! You seem not to understand that this are the name of these.. Colombian Cordillera Occidental. It's like naming two peaks of the same mountain with the same name. the mountain range called Andes and the peaks being the cordilleras. The solution below violates WP:OR. -- Zer0~Gravity (Roger - Out) 16:25, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Enough, take some time to read WP:OR while a third party solves this. You can't understand that the Andes is made up multiple cordilleras, which are named by country. These are still the Andes!!!! What you are trying to do is not encyclopedic. What is the problem of saying this the Cordillera Oriental (Colombia) extends north into Venezuela were its name changes into Cordillera de Mérida ??? these are still all part of the Andes!!!. We should stop arguing in this page until the third opinion is made.-- Zer0~Gravity (Roger - Out) 20:02, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Original to you! creation of your own! I'm still waiting for that reliable source resembling the article you are pushing for. Give me a link were I can see that the author groups all Cordilleras Occidentales under a single article, apart from an article named Andes. -- Zer0~Gravity (Roger - Out) 01:21, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
1935 huh? ok.. so you want me to dive through a library for a single map against the thousands of books and information regarding this. I dare you to do it in the Spanish Wikipedia were these have the same naming convention. (1 vs. 1000s+) I mean if we do it by internet hits in google here 385,00 for naming it Cordillera Occidental (Colombia) vs. NONE for Cordillera Occidental (Northern Andes). You are just wasting your time and my time. I am just going to ignore you until there is a resolution.-- Zer0~Gravity (Roger - Out) 01:54, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
This is just great.. using your friends?? well I'm moving this discussion up.. WP:MC -- Zer0~Gravity (Roger - Out) 15:41, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
FOR THE RECORD: I have pulled the original merger proposal since an RfC is currently in progress. ZeroGravity was asked very politely if there were any concerns to address them on this talk page, and he reverted without any comment other than "OR" (which the above discussions clearly show is not the case). After several days he finally made a couple of comments (out of many) that actually made sense were based on facts, not his own opinion, so I therefore modified my merger proposal with the compromise table below. It is now my position that the RfC should address the validity and/or value of adopting the the proposed changes in the table, or leaving the mess as it currently is. The list of involved articles and other related pages is:
As 'most' people can see, the changes in the table would greatly simplify the current mess, which could only get worse. It also sets a dangerous precedent for POV pushing by naming mountan ranges (or any other greographical 'feature') by all of the different countries that may have territory on it. wbfergus Talk 18:22, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
new page | current page | comment |
---|---|---|
Cordillera Oriental (Northern Andes) | Cordillera Oriental (Colombia) | |
Cordillera Central (Northern Andes) | Cordillera Central, Ecuador | Article is actually Cordilla Real, which states "They are continued in the Cordillera Central of Peru in the South and Cordillera Central of Colombia in the North. The Cordillera Real includes the Antisana, Cotopaxi, and Cayambe, while Chimborazo is in the Cordillera Occidental." |
Cordillera Central (Northern Andes) | Cordillera Central, Colombia | |
Cordillera Central (Northern Andes) | Cordillera Central, Bolivia | |
(leave as is) | Cordillera Central, Peru | Article is actually Cordillera Blanca, which doesn't really appear to be part of the Cordillera Central, which seems to only exist in the Northern Andes. |
Cordillera Occidental (Northern Andes) | Cordillera Occidental (Colombia) | |
Cordillera Oriental (Central Andes) | Cordillera Oriental (Bolivia) | |
Cordillera Oriental (Central Andes) | Cordillera Oriental (Peru) | |
Cordillera Occidental (Central Andes) | Cordillera Occidental (Bolivia) | |
Cordillera Occidental (Central Andes) | Cordillera Occidental (Ecuador) |
Request for comments on whether the Oriental, Central and Occidental Cordillera should be discussed in three separate articles with those names, with subdivision by mountain range, or whether these article should be done by nationality.:
wbfergus is trying to merge all "cordilleras Occidentales" in the Andes mountain system into one article (same for the case of all named "cordillera oriental" and all "cordillera central").
-- Zer0~Gravity (Roger - Out) 21:56, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
Well, it looks like everybody with an opinion on this has weighed in so far. So what's the resolution? OracleDude 11:36, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
As one of the authors of some of the Cordillera articles, I have only today come upon this discussion page. I can understand both points of view expressed on this page, but I see one problem: All the different Cordillera titles which do exist now are by no means complete, and for some regions or countries articles do not even exist. If we collected all this information - that which exists and that which is still to be added - under three main titles, the information would become quite voluminous.
I would suggest that we go a different, a compromising way. Look at many of the articles of the world's countries. At beginning of subtitles, there are often links ("For a detailed article, see: ...") to articles which handle the subtitle in detail. So, why does wbfergus not write a general article about the Andine Cordillera Oriental, with subtitles like
where below the subtitles the specific features of each of those sections are characterised in short, and below each subtitle there is a reference to each of the (already existing) more detailed articles about each of the sections of the Cordillera Oriental? -- Meister ( talk) 10:18, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
with the various cultures or actions compared and contrasted. -- Bejnar ( talk) 16:59, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
![]() | Disambiguation | |||
|
It seems to me that dividing the Cordillera Oriental of the Andes up by country is counter-productive to adequately describing the geography of the Andes which doesn't respect country borders. A country based breakdown also tends to encourage POV edits by nationalists. I suggest that the main article about the Cordillera Oriental of the Andes should be here instead of a disambiguation page. Then individual ranges in the Cordillera Oriental could each have there own article, by range name and extension, not country. What do you all think? -- Bejnar 18:40, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I had multiple articles merged into one more-or-less cohesive article for Cordillera Oriental, Cordillera Occidental, and Cordillera Central, but the common sense approach was reverted and we are now back at 9 or 10 different articles for what should only be three articles. If there are any substantive reasons for not performing the merger, here is the place to state the claims. Since this merge has the same criteria for the three different ranges, all three proposals can be addressed here, instead of a separate talk for each of the three proposals, which should all have the same arguments. wbfergus Talk 13:36, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Let´s take it to RFC.. you just can´t make up an article like that.. tell me where can I find a source in which all cordilleras are merged!!-- Zer0~Gravity (Roger - Out) 12:09, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
If these are shared by for example by two countries Cordillera Oriental (Colombia-Venezuela) I can't see any other solution. With sufficient information this will eventually split. --
Zer0~Gravity
(Roger - Out)
13:05, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
Well you seem not to understand my point, lets RfC. Your proposal is just unencyclopedic. You are trying to create an article that could pretty well be explained in the Andes better than in a mixed up article. I am asking you to please give me a reference.. a WP:RS that shows an article the way you want it.
You provided these, and these show Cordilleras explaining an specific country or pointing nowhere..
-- Zer0~Gravity (Roger - Out) 15:57, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
I disagree.. Again the Colombian cordilleras have nothing to do with the ones in Ecuador!!! You seem not to understand that this are the name of these.. Colombian Cordillera Occidental. It's like naming two peaks of the same mountain with the same name. the mountain range called Andes and the peaks being the cordilleras. The solution below violates WP:OR. -- Zer0~Gravity (Roger - Out) 16:25, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Enough, take some time to read WP:OR while a third party solves this. You can't understand that the Andes is made up multiple cordilleras, which are named by country. These are still the Andes!!!! What you are trying to do is not encyclopedic. What is the problem of saying this the Cordillera Oriental (Colombia) extends north into Venezuela were its name changes into Cordillera de Mérida ??? these are still all part of the Andes!!!. We should stop arguing in this page until the third opinion is made.-- Zer0~Gravity (Roger - Out) 20:02, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Original to you! creation of your own! I'm still waiting for that reliable source resembling the article you are pushing for. Give me a link were I can see that the author groups all Cordilleras Occidentales under a single article, apart from an article named Andes. -- Zer0~Gravity (Roger - Out) 01:21, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
1935 huh? ok.. so you want me to dive through a library for a single map against the thousands of books and information regarding this. I dare you to do it in the Spanish Wikipedia were these have the same naming convention. (1 vs. 1000s+) I mean if we do it by internet hits in google here 385,00 for naming it Cordillera Occidental (Colombia) vs. NONE for Cordillera Occidental (Northern Andes). You are just wasting your time and my time. I am just going to ignore you until there is a resolution.-- Zer0~Gravity (Roger - Out) 01:54, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
This is just great.. using your friends?? well I'm moving this discussion up.. WP:MC -- Zer0~Gravity (Roger - Out) 15:41, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
FOR THE RECORD: I have pulled the original merger proposal since an RfC is currently in progress. ZeroGravity was asked very politely if there were any concerns to address them on this talk page, and he reverted without any comment other than "OR" (which the above discussions clearly show is not the case). After several days he finally made a couple of comments (out of many) that actually made sense were based on facts, not his own opinion, so I therefore modified my merger proposal with the compromise table below. It is now my position that the RfC should address the validity and/or value of adopting the the proposed changes in the table, or leaving the mess as it currently is. The list of involved articles and other related pages is:
As 'most' people can see, the changes in the table would greatly simplify the current mess, which could only get worse. It also sets a dangerous precedent for POV pushing by naming mountan ranges (or any other greographical 'feature') by all of the different countries that may have territory on it. wbfergus Talk 18:22, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
new page | current page | comment |
---|---|---|
Cordillera Oriental (Northern Andes) | Cordillera Oriental (Colombia) | |
Cordillera Central (Northern Andes) | Cordillera Central, Ecuador | Article is actually Cordilla Real, which states "They are continued in the Cordillera Central of Peru in the South and Cordillera Central of Colombia in the North. The Cordillera Real includes the Antisana, Cotopaxi, and Cayambe, while Chimborazo is in the Cordillera Occidental." |
Cordillera Central (Northern Andes) | Cordillera Central, Colombia | |
Cordillera Central (Northern Andes) | Cordillera Central, Bolivia | |
(leave as is) | Cordillera Central, Peru | Article is actually Cordillera Blanca, which doesn't really appear to be part of the Cordillera Central, which seems to only exist in the Northern Andes. |
Cordillera Occidental (Northern Andes) | Cordillera Occidental (Colombia) | |
Cordillera Oriental (Central Andes) | Cordillera Oriental (Bolivia) | |
Cordillera Oriental (Central Andes) | Cordillera Oriental (Peru) | |
Cordillera Occidental (Central Andes) | Cordillera Occidental (Bolivia) | |
Cordillera Occidental (Central Andes) | Cordillera Occidental (Ecuador) |
Request for comments on whether the Oriental, Central and Occidental Cordillera should be discussed in three separate articles with those names, with subdivision by mountain range, or whether these article should be done by nationality.:
wbfergus is trying to merge all "cordilleras Occidentales" in the Andes mountain system into one article (same for the case of all named "cordillera oriental" and all "cordillera central").
-- Zer0~Gravity (Roger - Out) 21:56, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
Well, it looks like everybody with an opinion on this has weighed in so far. So what's the resolution? OracleDude 11:36, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
As one of the authors of some of the Cordillera articles, I have only today come upon this discussion page. I can understand both points of view expressed on this page, but I see one problem: All the different Cordillera titles which do exist now are by no means complete, and for some regions or countries articles do not even exist. If we collected all this information - that which exists and that which is still to be added - under three main titles, the information would become quite voluminous.
I would suggest that we go a different, a compromising way. Look at many of the articles of the world's countries. At beginning of subtitles, there are often links ("For a detailed article, see: ...") to articles which handle the subtitle in detail. So, why does wbfergus not write a general article about the Andine Cordillera Oriental, with subtitles like
where below the subtitles the specific features of each of those sections are characterised in short, and below each subtitle there is a reference to each of the (already existing) more detailed articles about each of the sections of the Cordillera Oriental? -- Meister ( talk) 10:18, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
with the various cultures or actions compared and contrasted. -- Bejnar ( talk) 16:59, 22 October 2008 (UTC)