This article was nominated for merging with Prince of Wales on 19:54, 28 May 2023 (UTC. The result of the discussion ( permanent link) was merge. |
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This is a good article, and the individual claims made in it are well referenced. What is lacking, though, is any clear evidence that there is a campaign ("an organized course of action to achieve a goal") to end the Prince of Wales title. There are clearly individuals who oppose the use of the title by the heir to the throne, and there are those who oppose the monarchy (not just the Prince of Wales title), and the background section is thorough and covers the history of English rule of Wales well - but none of these things point to a campaign to end the Prince of Wales title.
A google search of Campaign to end the Prince of Wales title yields little to convince me that such a campaign exists. I suspect that what exists in this article could be adequately covered by the Welsh republicanism article, as this campaign (if indeed it is a campaign) would seem to be just a part of the goals of welsh republicanism. Llwyld ( talk) 05:46, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
TBH, I'd support the deletion of this page. Unless there's a huge protest, bordering on revolution, if/when Prince William has his investiture. GoodDay ( talk) 17:02, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
I agree, and support the removal of this article Kalamikid ( talk) 21:07, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Your Opinion polls section stops at the date of June 2022 with 46% support for retaining the Prince of Wales title. I found a YouGov poll from late September; here is the pdf file titled "YouGov / Barn Cymru Survey Results. Sample Size: 1014 Adults in Wales (16+). Fieldwork: 20th - 22nd September 2022"; the question is "Do you have a favourable or unfavourable opinion of each of the following?", Prince William → "Very favourable: 47, Somewhat favourable: 28, Total Favourable: 75, Somewhat unfavourable: 11, Very unfavourable: 8, Total Unfavourable: 19, Don't know: 7". Another recent YouGov poll via The New York Times ( web archive) says that: "In one online survey from the British polling company YouGov, William ranked as the third most popular royal, with a 66 percent approval rating; he trailed only the queen, who had 75 percent popularity before her death, and his wife Kate, with 68 percent.". No disrespect to its creator but like @ GoodDay: and @ Kalamikid:, I would support the removal of this article because the poll above shows that this is not a considerable protest or revolution. Oroborvs ( talk) 23:51, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
Please makes suggestions here to improve the page and allow removal of improvement template banners. Thanks Titus Gold ( talk) 18:23, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
There is a quite lengthy article on this in today's i newspaper - here - which should be incorporated into the article and gives the whole subject some additional weight. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 10:24, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
I propose the merger of this page into Prince of Wales, where there is already a controversy section that might be expanded a little. Although there is clearly something to be said about opposition to the title within Wales, this largely amounts to protests at the investiture of Charles to the title and a petition now that has thus far reached 40,000 signatures (just over 1% of the Welsh population). Opinion polls also show falling support for the title, and the low percentage on the petition is more indicative of those for whom the matter is pertinent rather than the full extent of opposition, but there is no large movement here, and as per the discussion above, several editors have questioned why this page represents a subject in its own right.
Much of the article is strung together from primary sources, but I would suggest there is good information here about opposition to the last investiture and this one that should be merged. The opinion polling could be summarised in a couple of sentences, showing how attitudes have changed since the last investiture.
There are under 3,000 words on the target page so it can easily accommodate the pertinent information here within recommended article sizes. Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk) 06:53, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
There has been a massive -27,147 removal from the page. Some of this is acceptable trimming and removing a long background however, a significant amount of relevant content has been unnecessarily removed. I kindly ask @ Peter Ormond to re-include some parts of the removal that may have merit for inclusion. Thanks Titus Gold ( talk) 14:45, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
Copy/paste of the article page
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Please don't do that! That is just the page as it was. The first reference and first line I checked is still in the article, and the same is true for much of it, so all you are saying is that you think the page should be as it was per this diff: [3]. This is not explaining what content you believe should go back in nor why, and it is cluttering up the talk page. I have collapsed the content, but maybe it should just be deleted. Maybe you should use your sandbox? Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk) 15:52, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
I am not surprised my edit was reverted, nor by whom; however, their edit summary was inaccurate. The percentage is relevant to the significance of the vote, and does not need a source as it is a simple calculation, and a generous one at that, because I used the total population, not the population eligible to vote (i.e. adults). Having said that, I don't mind if it is the article or not, as anyone can look up the population of Wales if they want to know (and it's going to be merged anyway); I just thought it would be interesting to readers of the article. Tony Holkham (Talk) 16:06, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
I have merged what I believe is the core of this article now into Prince of Wales. A notable omission is the polling charts, which as per the merge discussion, I suggest might be better merged into Welsh republicanism. I will leave this article as "Being merged" for now, and will move the polls later (unless anyone wants to help). I don't propose to set the redirect until all mergeable content is relocated. Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk) 20:57, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
This article was nominated for merging with Prince of Wales on 19:54, 28 May 2023 (UTC. The result of the discussion ( permanent link) was merge. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Controversy of the Prince of Wales title redirect. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This redirect is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
This is a good article, and the individual claims made in it are well referenced. What is lacking, though, is any clear evidence that there is a campaign ("an organized course of action to achieve a goal") to end the Prince of Wales title. There are clearly individuals who oppose the use of the title by the heir to the throne, and there are those who oppose the monarchy (not just the Prince of Wales title), and the background section is thorough and covers the history of English rule of Wales well - but none of these things point to a campaign to end the Prince of Wales title.
A google search of Campaign to end the Prince of Wales title yields little to convince me that such a campaign exists. I suspect that what exists in this article could be adequately covered by the Welsh republicanism article, as this campaign (if indeed it is a campaign) would seem to be just a part of the goals of welsh republicanism. Llwyld ( talk) 05:46, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
TBH, I'd support the deletion of this page. Unless there's a huge protest, bordering on revolution, if/when Prince William has his investiture. GoodDay ( talk) 17:02, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
I agree, and support the removal of this article Kalamikid ( talk) 21:07, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Your Opinion polls section stops at the date of June 2022 with 46% support for retaining the Prince of Wales title. I found a YouGov poll from late September; here is the pdf file titled "YouGov / Barn Cymru Survey Results. Sample Size: 1014 Adults in Wales (16+). Fieldwork: 20th - 22nd September 2022"; the question is "Do you have a favourable or unfavourable opinion of each of the following?", Prince William → "Very favourable: 47, Somewhat favourable: 28, Total Favourable: 75, Somewhat unfavourable: 11, Very unfavourable: 8, Total Unfavourable: 19, Don't know: 7". Another recent YouGov poll via The New York Times ( web archive) says that: "In one online survey from the British polling company YouGov, William ranked as the third most popular royal, with a 66 percent approval rating; he trailed only the queen, who had 75 percent popularity before her death, and his wife Kate, with 68 percent.". No disrespect to its creator but like @ GoodDay: and @ Kalamikid:, I would support the removal of this article because the poll above shows that this is not a considerable protest or revolution. Oroborvs ( talk) 23:51, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
Please makes suggestions here to improve the page and allow removal of improvement template banners. Thanks Titus Gold ( talk) 18:23, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
There is a quite lengthy article on this in today's i newspaper - here - which should be incorporated into the article and gives the whole subject some additional weight. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 10:24, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
I propose the merger of this page into Prince of Wales, where there is already a controversy section that might be expanded a little. Although there is clearly something to be said about opposition to the title within Wales, this largely amounts to protests at the investiture of Charles to the title and a petition now that has thus far reached 40,000 signatures (just over 1% of the Welsh population). Opinion polls also show falling support for the title, and the low percentage on the petition is more indicative of those for whom the matter is pertinent rather than the full extent of opposition, but there is no large movement here, and as per the discussion above, several editors have questioned why this page represents a subject in its own right.
Much of the article is strung together from primary sources, but I would suggest there is good information here about opposition to the last investiture and this one that should be merged. The opinion polling could be summarised in a couple of sentences, showing how attitudes have changed since the last investiture.
There are under 3,000 words on the target page so it can easily accommodate the pertinent information here within recommended article sizes. Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk) 06:53, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
There has been a massive -27,147 removal from the page. Some of this is acceptable trimming and removing a long background however, a significant amount of relevant content has been unnecessarily removed. I kindly ask @ Peter Ormond to re-include some parts of the removal that may have merit for inclusion. Thanks Titus Gold ( talk) 14:45, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
Copy/paste of the article page
|
---|
References
|
Please don't do that! That is just the page as it was. The first reference and first line I checked is still in the article, and the same is true for much of it, so all you are saying is that you think the page should be as it was per this diff: [3]. This is not explaining what content you believe should go back in nor why, and it is cluttering up the talk page. I have collapsed the content, but maybe it should just be deleted. Maybe you should use your sandbox? Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk) 15:52, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
I am not surprised my edit was reverted, nor by whom; however, their edit summary was inaccurate. The percentage is relevant to the significance of the vote, and does not need a source as it is a simple calculation, and a generous one at that, because I used the total population, not the population eligible to vote (i.e. adults). Having said that, I don't mind if it is the article or not, as anyone can look up the population of Wales if they want to know (and it's going to be merged anyway); I just thought it would be interesting to readers of the article. Tony Holkham (Talk) 16:06, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
I have merged what I believe is the core of this article now into Prince of Wales. A notable omission is the polling charts, which as per the merge discussion, I suggest might be better merged into Welsh republicanism. I will leave this article as "Being merged" for now, and will move the polls later (unless anyone wants to help). I don't propose to set the redirect until all mergeable content is relocated. Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk) 20:57, 28 May 2023 (UTC)