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The image Claimed-to-be-ahmadinejad.jpg is not correct. The person indicated is clearly not Ahmadinejad. I have changed it for a montage including the same photo indicating the individual to the far right. Included are several other photos taken at the same time. That person appears almost certainly to be Ahmadinejad. -- Packmanus 1 July 2005 19:01 (UTC)
Sources: CIA finds Iranian president likely not hostage-taker Analysis not final, officials say Friday, August 12, 2005 Posted: 1826 GMT (0226 HKT) http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/08/12/cia.iranpresident/index.html
Well, that settles it then. -- Joodoo 02:22, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
I don´t understand why suspicions of any kind are allowed to be part of someones description in Wikipedia. It is more than clear, especially in the case of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, that right at this time the chapter "Allegations" is some kind of propaganda war on Wikipedia. So, reminding the sentence "someone is not guilty until his debt is proven", I think suspicions should not to be allowed in Wikipedia articles about persons, because they try to shift readerships view about the person to some unproven opinions. Persons should be described with facts and with a neutral point of view. This is clearly not given at this time to the article about Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
It is importand that Wikipedia is not used as an political instrument. This case shows, that Wikipedia is some importand source of information for the public today, and that some suspects try to use this free editable source to push the publics view to some direction they want. If this is allowed to be continued by Wikipedia administration, Wikipedia will lose her reputation as a worth to be reading information source.
Wikipedia articles of people who are in the news focus with unproven suspicions should be locked for editing until some time when there are again facts to say. Wikipedia administration should think about some reasonable timespan for article locking. It is like with the stocks: if things are getting uncontrollable, stocks administrations disallow trading for some time. I think this is the only way Wikipedia can protect its information quality without changing informations published by editors. 80.140.156.5 ( talk · contribs)).
Contributor Jeremygbyrne reverted my edit to the grammatically incorrect media, which is plural. You can't have "a media." It's a medium, singular. I recommend that Jeremy not be so quick on the draw to revert. It just pisses people off. Schnaz 05:01, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
Hello HKT. You have included the following in the "allegations" sections: "Ahmadinejad, his political supporters, and even a number of his political opponents in Iran, have denied all or some of these allegations." -- The problem I have with that is that it gives the general reader the impression that some people have only partially denied the allegations. I don't think any of the Iranians (whether supportive or against Ahmadinejad) have implied that some of the allegations may be true. While you are right that some of those who have denied some of the allegations were not in a position to authoritatively reject *ALL* of the allegations, still, the way that part of the article is currently written, gives the general reader the impression that some of the allegations are being accepted. Can we work on improving that a little? Mansour 6 July 2005 06:51 (UTC)
-- AI 23:10, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
Isfahan's Islamic Superdemocracy puts nothing in brackets. Not U 235.
The heading of this section is preposterously long. Clearly, it's not a title at all but a full-blown position statement. Earlier, I truncated it to sensible length, a change that was reverted within minutes by user Jeremygbyrne. If my edit was inadequate, I'm open to something else, as long as it's not what was there and is there now, which is just plain stupid. But if JGB wishes to get into a revert war with me, I am more than happy to oblige. Schnaz 04:53, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
As originally requested by President Bush on June 26th, the goverment had investigated whether or not Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was one of the captors of the 52 U.S. diplomats who were held hostage in Iran from 11/4/1979 to 1/20/1981--the hostage-taking was supposedly in response to Iranian unrest over the 1953 U.S. coup that toppled the democratically elected Prime Minister & rose the Shah to power & was also until being released thirty-three minutes after Ronald Reagan was sworn-in as President. Well, the CIA has officially concluded their investigation & discovered that there was "no evidence" that Mr. Ahmadinejad was invovled in any way to the 1979 hostage-taking. Ahmadinjead & his political allies concede that the newly sworn-in president was part of the students who tookover the U.S. embassy & was a devout supporter of the Ayatollah Khomeini, yet they & the currently pro-American once-anti-US leader of the captors told Iranian & U.S. media that President Ahmadinejad was not one of his fellow captors.
Ahmadinejad is believed to be a member of the Hojjatieh Society. Inasmuch as he has made in his speeches numerous references to the Mahdi, I suspect that it is a reasonable to think that he is a member, although Ahmadinejad, himself, has never admitted publicly that he is. -- Schnazola 16:43, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
When this topic was being discussed for inclusion in the main Ahmadinejad article, it made sense, perhaps, not to incorporate it. Incorporating here, though, makes perfect sense inasmuch as his alleged involvement in Hojjatieh is nothing if not controversial. The Asia Times Online has an article from September of 2005 that talks to his (and three cabinet members') close ties to the secret, eccentric society. As soon as I have a chance, I will gin up a paragraph or two and include it. -- Schnazola 16:38, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
I noticed that many (all?) of the numbered endnote/footnote links lead nowhere or, more accurately, right back to the Controversies page, itself. I suspect this is because the source text was copied and pasted from the original Ahmadinejad article, and the links are now broken.
Also, the numbering system is inconsistent, some using superscripts and others not. I'm not a big fan of superscripts because they disturb the line spacing and make articles appear sloppy. Further, there is no Notes section in which the code <references/> has been placed, so there is no home for the footnotes. I tried adding that tag myself but had no luck. -- Schnaz 21:06, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
Reference for quotation. - Objectivist-C 23:48, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Jeremygbyrne, please do not remove this section without discussion again. - Objectivist-C 03:05, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
I found this site, but I don't know if it's legit. Comments appreciated. http://www.international-economy.com/TIE_W06_Smick.pdf IronDuke 03:12, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Claims of insanity in elected officials (particularly at a presidential level) require a great deal more than the offhand opinins of an ex-CIA officer. I have changed the section to "Eschatology", which is what this is really about. JEREMY 11:59, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
This section has been added since I added the preceding section on MA's involvement in Hojjatieh -- which is an eschatological sub-sect of Shi'a Islam, something I failed to mention explicitly in the Hojjatieh section. Someone (moi?) should add wording to that effect, which would make the transition to this section better. Better still, perhaps someone can integrate the Hojjatieh and Eschatology sections. I'm thinking that the Eschatology section should be subsumed by the Hojjatieh section. -- Schnaz 18:49, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
To be fair to Baer, I think his remarks are taken ever so slightly out of context in this page. If you read the Seymour Hersh article Baer is talking about what Iran looks like from the point of view of Israel: [The Iranians] "are capable of making a bomb, hiding it, and launching it at Israel. They’re apocalyptic Shiites. If you’re sitting in Tel Aviv and you believe they’ve got nukes and missiles—you’ve got to take them out. These guys are nuts, and there’s no reason to back off." It's not entirely clear to me whether Baer is actually stating his own views in the last critical sentence or whether he's talking as thoiugh he was an Israeli.
This article desperately needs its references cleaned up (which I've just done for the main article). If this results in edit conflicts during the next half hour or so, please accept my apology. JEREMY 12:01, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Ahmadinejad's chief strategic counselor is Hassan Abbasi. -- HResearcher 16:19, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
"... For example, Hassan Abbasi, who has reportedly been the principal foreign policy voice in President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's administration and an influential Revolutionary Guard intelligence theoretician,..." - FrontPageMagazine.com [1] Is that also an anti-iranian blog? -- HResearcher 02:53, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
The Wall Street Journal referenced for new claim. -- HResearcher 03:51, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
"Another terror outfit dedicated to this recruitment drive is the “Headquarters for Commemoration of Martyrs of Global Islamic Movement”, established in 1982. It grabbed the headlines in spring of 2004 when it was introduced as an NGO in charge of recruiting “suicide volunteers” to combat “World arrogance.” As Tehran’s Mayor, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad took this organization under his wings and facilitated its activities by placing the capital's resources at its disposal." - US Alliance for Democratic Iran [2] Is this also an anti-iranian blog in your opinion? -- HResearcher 02:36, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
An editor described Iran Focus as "one of numerous web outlets of the MKO terrorist group." I added a citation needed tag to this claim initially, but after some research have decided remove the claim as entirely wrong. Ahmadinejad's involvement with OSU has been confirmed by al-Jazeera. RonCram 15:58, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
The first sentence is also not true representation of thfacts:
"On June 29, 2005, shortly after Mahmoud Ahmadinejad won the Iranian presidential election, several major western news outlets publicized various allegations against him. "
This create the impression that his views as holocaust denial and destruction of Israel are an invention of " western news outlets - which is of course not true: the man has used Iranin TV to preech for all those really bad tatste ideas.
I would like to see added what kind of entertainment besides music is being banned in Iran by Ahmadinejad with citations.
I recently heard a radio interview (on either NPR or the BBC, iirc) with an Israeli official who claimed that MA had referred to Jews as "sons of donkeys and pigs". This shocked me, and I assumed it must have been a new thing. Google doesn't know anything about it. Does anyone else? JEREMY 16:19, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, its coming from an Israeli official, not exactly the most reliable source. I've never heard this. -- Jonmedeiros 23:58, 29 August 2006 (UTC) Akoura 01:22, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
Akoura 01:22, 20 September 2006 (UTC)Akoura-(Lebanon)
Akoura
01:22, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
I am not writing this to defend Ahmadinejad's position in any way. BUT Whatever Ahmadinejad did say was NOT anitsemetic. This misuse of the race is enfuriating. Everyone in the Arab world INCLUDING Saphardic and Some Azkenazi Jews are semitic or are mixed with it. Its not a race issue and the Jews being one of the smallest of the semitic groups cannot clame the entire RACE. Ontop of that, I think that there is a difference between being against the government of Israel and Israeli people. There is an even greater difference between Israelis, and Judaism as a faith and ethnicity represented in its many groups throughout the world. So to be against Israel on the national level does not mean that you are calling for the eradication of Judaism and especially NOT making antisemetic remarks. The many Jewish communities throughout the Middle East are not being systematically attacked even though their neighbors might hate Israel, and wished it would go away. Not saying whether I think it should or shouldn't.
Simply saying what the problem isn't can sometimes help solving the problem. I don't see this as a race issue and I find that those who do see it as one are not from the region, because I will tell you, we all look the same. You can switch up the babies at birth and if no one knew then no one would have guessed. So if we collectively stopped calling this a race issue, then it won't be; because its NOT, based on any science.
This text appeared on the Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in the section called "Holocaust denial and allegations of anti-Semitism". This section now links to this page, Controversies surrounding Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. We will be replacing this text on MA's page with a summary in accordance with the summary style guideline, but not all of this information is repeated on Controversies surrounding Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. So, I put this here so that an active editor from this page can look through it and add whatever is appropriate to the article.
Happy editing! Vir4030 15:34, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Ahmadinejad repeatedly made controversial statements questioning the Holocaust, and criticized European laws against Holocaust denial. These statements were condemned by many governments, by United Nations Security Council and Secretary General Kofi Annan, and led to accusations of anti-Semitism. [1] [2] [3] [4]
According to numerous media reports, he stated that "they have invented a myth that Jews were massacred". [5] In an interview with Der Spiegel, he was asked, "Are you still saying that the Holocaust is just 'a myth'?" Ahmadinejad responded, "I will only accept something as truth if I am actually convinced of it." In the same interview, he later stated, "We oppose every type of crime against any people. But we want to know whether this crime actually took place or not. [...] If it did not occur, then the Jews have to go back to where they came from". [6]
In reaction to Ahmadinejad's comments on the Holocaust, the United States Senate passed a unanimous resolution condemning his "harmful, destructive, and anti-Semitic statements." and "hate and animosity toward all Jewish people of the world." [7]
The UN Security Council issued a statement on Dec. 9, 2005, condemning his statements denying the Holocaust as well as his statements on Israel. [8] UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, in response to reporters' questions on Ahmadinejad in August 2006, said through a spokesman that Annan "considers anyone who would try to deny the truth of the Holocaust or make false claims about it to be a bigot." [9]
Former Iranian President Mohammad Khatami said that the Holocaust was a "historic fact," while criticizing what he claimed was a connection between the Holocaust and "the persecution of the Palestinian people". [10]
The translation of his statements on the Holocaust have been disputed by the Iranian government. The government-controlled IRNA news agency has stated that Ahmadinejad said, "some have created a myth on holocaust and hold it even higher than the very belief in religion and prophets.". [11] [12] The Iranian government further responded through a spokesman who charged that "the Western media empire is trying to portrait [ sic] Iran as an anti-Semitic country. [...] If you believe in the Holocaust [...] let other people express their ideas too and then try to convince them by your justifications.". [13]
In January 2006, Iran announced a conference to examine what it described as "scientific evidence" for the Holocaust. An Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman said that "For over half a century, those who seek to prove the Holocaust have used every podium to defend their position. Now they should listen to others." The conference received widespread condemnation. [14] British Prime Minister Tony Blair called the conference as "shocking, ridiculous, and stupid." Iran reacted by inviting Blair to the conference. [15]
In addition Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has stated that “Jews are respected by everyone, by all human beings.…some people think if they accuse me of being anti-Jew they can solve the problem. No, I am not anti-Jew.…I respect them very much.…We love everyone in the world - Jews, Christians, Muslims, non-Muslims, non-Jews, non-Christians". [16]
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This putz is toast. He'll be killed by the most powerful weapon in human history....the voting booth. I feel bad for the Irainian people. The Islamic Council thwarted the previous 'reformers', and that caused MA to be a viable alternative for the voting public. Hopefully, they (the Iranians) will have learned a valued lesson about the true cause of their hardships....the Islamic Council. Those Islamic clerics are nothing more than modern-day politicos and capitalists, who dress themselves in the clothing of 15th-century barbarians....while all the time, they are only interested in holding power to themselves. Hopefully, the Irainian middle class (what remains of it) will assert itself and out-vote the ignorant peasants who cling to their allah-superstition and thier cult-of-victimhood. It is those uneducated masses who have allowed the evil Islamic council to remain in power. No matter how it eventually works out, one thing is certain....this putz is toast. I expect that the final Wiki-entry on Mahmoud Ahmadirtbag will be that he ended up as a shoe-salesman somewhere in a strip mall in the suburbs of Tehran and that one day an revenge-seeking Iranian walked into the store and gave him a 9-mm frontal lobotomy.
Amen! He and his beloved Koran! Lol Motherland73 ( talk) 08:16, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
He was stationed here in Pensacola in late '70's. He bragged how he would become president of Iran. Everyone thought that was funny. He was most times seen with Koran , reading it. Motherland73 ( talk) 08:19, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
removed wp:aww (such as MKO terrorist group -> MKO militant group)
removed undercited accusations by a known MKO network lacking wp:notability:
According to Iran Focus, soon after attending Elm-o Sanaat University in 1975 to study engineering, Ahmadinejad was caught up in the Islamic revolution of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini. Ahmadinejad founded the Islamic Student Association at his university. By 1979, he became a representative of Office for Strengthening of Unity Between Universities and Theological Seminaries, later known as OSU. The OSU was organized by Ayatollah Mohammad Beheshti, one of Khomeini's top advisors. Members of the OSU central council, including Ahmadinejad, Ibrahim Asgharzadeh, Mohsen (Mahmoud) Mirdamadi, Mohsen Kadivar, Mohsen Aghajari, and Abbas Abdi, were regularly received by Khomeini himself. The OSU leadership played a key role in the crackdown on dissident university professors and students during the Islamic Cultural Revolution of 1980. Many professors and students who did not support Khomeini were arrested and executed. [1]
removed ridiculous uncited allegations and false: Hojjatieh.
Ahmadinejad is believed by many to belong, or to have once belonged, to the anti- Bahai and anti- Sunni clandestine society known as Hojjatieh. An Islamic society to which Ahmadinejad belonged when he attended Alm-u Sanat University was, according to an article that appeared in the Asia Times Online, an extreme, traditional, and fundamentalist group that maintained close links with Hojjatieh. Three members of Ahmadinejad's cabinet are said to have Hojjatieh backgrounds, including Hojatoleslam Gholam Hossein Mohseni-Ejehyi, the intelligence chief who graduated from the Haghani theological school, founded by Hojjatieh. Ayatollah Mohammad Taqi Mesbah-Yazdi, a Shi'ite cleric closley associated with the school, issued a fatwa urging two million members of the bassij Islamic militia to vote for Ahmadinejad in the 2005 presidential elections.
Ahmadinejad was also implicated in the assassination in Austria of Abdul-Rahman Ghassemlou. Ahmadinejad was apparently instumental in smuggling the weapons used for the assassination. citation needed -- Gerash 77 02:58, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Additional studies of photos have identified a second man as Ahmadinejad. The second man is dressed in a sport jacket and turtleneck more suitable to a leader. [2] [3] - Twp weblog provided as reference, contrary to wp:cite-- Gerash 77 03:09, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
References
I think the current title needs renaming because 1) the term controversy is a Word to Avoid and 2) because 'surrounding' is unclear and has negative implications. The implication is that, if someone is 'surrounded' by something, it is essential to their nature. For example, I might state "Monica Lewinskiy was involved in a controvery but Bill Clinton is surrounded by controversy." Both words are WP:POV unless qualified by the phrase "according to (fill in the blank)". Antonrojo 01:08, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
I've add a bunch of information from the official CIA investigation into whether Ahmadinejad was involved in the hostage taking. The report is old, from August 2005, thus I am surprised it wasn't already included in the article. The results of the investigation was that there was no evidence that Ahmadinejad was involved. The edits I made with regards to this issue are these two.
The CNN report on the CIA's investigation is online here: http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/12/cia.iranpresident/index.html
Again, I think it is shocking that this reputable information wasn't covered in this article. -- Lucretius 22:22, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I searched on Google for the statement, "He is guilty of interrogating our American hostages," attributed to President Bush in the introduction. Google returned only 11 results, all citing the original Wikipedia statement. If anyone knows of a source that can corroborate this statement, they should add a citation; otherwise, it seems the statement should be deleted. TrippingTroubadour 00:10, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Well, I think I found the original transcripts which might proof that he didnt denie the holocaust etc. I'm from germany so reading it would be hard for me, I can read a bit persian, but this might work sb else out. Here is the page where you will find the links. http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=NOR20070120&articleId=4527 beforehand I have to tell you: one transc. is in persian language, one is written in englsih. I hope this will help you. By the way, In the german wiki- article it is already said that the quotes (wiped off the map etc) are wrong... I have already send my find to: Please redirect comments that have to do with Israel to Talk:Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Israel. Well I dont know if ahmadinejad is wrong quoted or not but I'd say the truht will triumph at wikipedia (-: Englishazadipedia
It sounds a little intimidating that there's a banner saying this article is part of the wikiproject judaism. Ahmadinejad doesn't hate jews if that's the point you're trying to get at. (Evidence is on Ahmadinejad article talk page) -- µWiki Talk / Contributions (YouWiki) 19:40, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
They do not deserve a place in this article. The hostage taker conspiracy, for one, has no verifiable support whatsoever. Moreover, the majority the hostages themselves have already disagreed with the theory, even after seeing the pictures. - Rosywounds ( talk) 01:00, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Normally I would agree but I think that it bears mentioning becuase it is better to explain what it is and say that it is widly considered non sense than to ignore it and leave people wondering.
Thoughts?
CaptinJohn ( talk) 10:52, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
I am somewhat amazed that the section on Ahmadinejad's activities suggesting Holocaust denial are completely merged into the Israeli article. This creates the impression that Holocaust denial, at least as it relates to Ahmadinejad, is only controversial in Israel, which is obviously not the case. This section should have its own, independent text. Niremetal ( talk) 20:37, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
He never denied the holocaust. The closest statement was interpeted as "expressing doubt". There is a significant difference. Eyalmc ( talk) 17:26, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
The links and quotes provided clearly spell Denial
This sentence shows that its a denial of the holocaust, not simply questioning a fact about it but questioning the entire event and that it has happened in the manner or to the extent historically recognized. that falls under the category of holocaust denial as it is described in wikipedia. changing the section name back to denial of the holocaust. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aonana ( talk • contribs) 14:17, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
He has been accused of flat-out denial, not skepticism, and that is the controversy; personal interpretations notwithstanding. -- Avi ( talk) 16:33, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
Any wiki is ipso facto not a reliable source because it is open to constant editing. -- Avi ( talk) 16:51, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
Well firstly, it's a blog, a personal site, as it says: "This Site is owned by a group of freedom fighters from different countries in support of Ahmed Rami's global struggle." Secondly, it is not even remotely neutral, as they themselves claim: "World Jewish Zionism, today, constitutes the last racist ideology still surviving and the Zionist's state of Israel, the last outpost of "Apartheid" in the World. Israel constitutes by its mere existence a complete defiance to all international laws, rules and principles, and the open racism manifested in the Jewish State is a violation of all ethics and morals known to Man." Eyalmc, you can most certainly find opinions of all shapes and sizes on the internet, but you seem to be in dire need of a review of WP:NPOV and WP:V, since the sources you want to add to wikipedia are completely unacceptable. Shall we start adding things from the Jewish Internet Defense Force and accept them as fact too, like their claim that Mohammed was a pedophile? I would say certainly not and I would hope you would agree. This is why we have very strict standards for accepted sources and separating opinion from fact. -- Avi ( talk) 17:56, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
I am really puzzled eyal. the quotes are in plain site. there are many sites calling this denial. sure there are many that call this questioning, doubting, challenging, skepticism. the fact remains he said the things. can we relate to what he actualy said and not ONLY to how it was described by reporters? i claim that what he said falls under the definition of holocaust denial. even if it is described somewhere else as doubt. that reporter is not sharing on wiki, did not publish on wiki, and if he wanted to publish on wiki his description would be contested. as we are doing now. ok? having a source that supports yoru view on things is good. we have sources sayign otherwise. can we continue to talk about wether the quotes are denial or not and stop talking about the various descriptions around the world. im sure ill find someone somewere describing them as "courageous" . should that also be the standard? Aonana ( talk) 18:28, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
Eyal, you're giving me a list of blogs. We know blogs can misrepresent stories. But more importantly, even if the Reuters story is absolutely correct, there are just as many, if not more, sources that indicate that he flat out denied it, and that the "doubt" is once again post-event spin. I understand you have a personal preference to one version of the history, but wikipedia cannot. -- Avi ( talk) 19:08, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
links that describe various quotes by MA as holocasut denial or claiming the holocasut is a lie
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/21/ahmadinejad-holocaust-den_n_293083.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/19/world/middleeast/19iran.html?_r=1&hp http://theweek.com/article/index/100604/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejads_Holocaust_denial http://www.foxnews.com/world/2009/09/21/ahmadinejad-proud-holocaust-denial/
i dont post the blogs, the forums, and other pretend media sources. just quotes and interpretations. Aonana ( talk) 20:53, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
eyalmc, Since i found a link where MA self describes his past claims as holocasut denial you should change your course. I am sure the presidents self interpretaion of his words and their meanings is more then enough to see all his past remarks within the context of denial. please concentrate on the link to the statement from 2009 as it is now a conrnersotne for any interpretation of MA statements about the holocaust. thanks.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32950027/
Aonana ( talk) 21:19, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
Can you classify a quote as a holocaust denial, even though it is not interpreted as such in the sources? Eyalmc ( talk) 21:12, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
i belive : yes. we can test quotes to see if they match to wikipedia definition of terms and see if they fit. f.e.: if i see a post by someone making racist remarks i can link it and describe it as racist even if the source does not describe it as racist. as long as my analysis of wether it is racist or not corresponds to wikipedia racism article. Aonana ( talk) 21:19, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
I have completely rewritten the section based on reliable secondary sources; primarily The New York Times. -- Avi ( talk) 21:36, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
Your problem is with the New York Times, the US state department, the British government, etc. Not with wikipedia. We are using reliable secondary sources in the article as we should. You have an issue with those sources' interpretations; fine, by all means, get some free webspace and post to your heart's content. However, you cannot re-interpret facts and statements to fit your worldview on wikipedia; we call that original research here and it is one of our core pillars. If you feel that Nazila Fathi or Robert F. Worth or Tony Blair or Angela Merkel or Philippe Douste-Blazy etc. are "misinterpreting" Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, you are free to contact them directly. For the first two, I suggest nytnewsnytimes.com or managing-editornytimes.com. The others need to be contacted through their respective governments. However, further attempts to sidestep wikipedia policies and guidelines in order to implement your own personal vision may be construed as disruptive editing, since this has been clearly explained multiple times. -- Avi ( talk) 22:47, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
You had an issue with the quote; I provided a section impeccably sourced that did not rely on any interpretation of the quote inside wikipedia. Wikipedia does not have to be made to conform to what you want, Eyal; it must be made to conform to its policies. Also, do not remove sourced and cited pertinent information that you do not like; it is disruptive, a POV violation, and can cause your editing privileges to be temporarily removed, or even revoked, if you continue to ignore wikipedia's policies in favor of your personal opinions. -- Avi ( talk) 15:35, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
I'm jsut happy that the 2009 decleration by MA settled the discussion of wether or not he ever denied the holocasut. at least we all agree that his self-testimony to the nature of his previous statements marks him as a holocaust denial, as reported by msnbc. Aonana ( talk) 20:00, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 ( talk) 00:42, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
The article fails several of the basic NPOV issues in particularly inappropriate manner for an article about a living person / WP:ATTACK . I have moved the article to the more neutral "Perceptions of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad " and this article should be enhanced to cover all manner in which he was perceived. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 22:48, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
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I believe Ahmadinejad trained on NAS Pensacola. He has been reported that he made a statement : "I am going to be president". Comrades have been known to call him "little Mahmoud" . This flight training is due to US selling Iran and several other middle east countries . The had to train here to fly them. This all took place during the late 70's on NAS Pensacola. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rosemls ( talk • contribs) 19:12, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
This man spent many months in training at NAS Pensacola and San Antonio Texas. I was introduced to him on NAS Pensacola. His nickname was "little Mahmoud". He is very familiar with both Air stations where he and other middle eastern air men trained to fly planes we, the us sold to them in the late 70's. I find this a bit disturbing , that he is so familiar with our bases. I presently live in Pensacola. Motherland73 ( talk) 08:15, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
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The image Claimed-to-be-ahmadinejad.jpg is not correct. The person indicated is clearly not Ahmadinejad. I have changed it for a montage including the same photo indicating the individual to the far right. Included are several other photos taken at the same time. That person appears almost certainly to be Ahmadinejad. -- Packmanus 1 July 2005 19:01 (UTC)
Sources: CIA finds Iranian president likely not hostage-taker Analysis not final, officials say Friday, August 12, 2005 Posted: 1826 GMT (0226 HKT) http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/08/12/cia.iranpresident/index.html
Well, that settles it then. -- Joodoo 02:22, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
I don´t understand why suspicions of any kind are allowed to be part of someones description in Wikipedia. It is more than clear, especially in the case of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, that right at this time the chapter "Allegations" is some kind of propaganda war on Wikipedia. So, reminding the sentence "someone is not guilty until his debt is proven", I think suspicions should not to be allowed in Wikipedia articles about persons, because they try to shift readerships view about the person to some unproven opinions. Persons should be described with facts and with a neutral point of view. This is clearly not given at this time to the article about Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
It is importand that Wikipedia is not used as an political instrument. This case shows, that Wikipedia is some importand source of information for the public today, and that some suspects try to use this free editable source to push the publics view to some direction they want. If this is allowed to be continued by Wikipedia administration, Wikipedia will lose her reputation as a worth to be reading information source.
Wikipedia articles of people who are in the news focus with unproven suspicions should be locked for editing until some time when there are again facts to say. Wikipedia administration should think about some reasonable timespan for article locking. It is like with the stocks: if things are getting uncontrollable, stocks administrations disallow trading for some time. I think this is the only way Wikipedia can protect its information quality without changing informations published by editors. 80.140.156.5 ( talk · contribs)).
Contributor Jeremygbyrne reverted my edit to the grammatically incorrect media, which is plural. You can't have "a media." It's a medium, singular. I recommend that Jeremy not be so quick on the draw to revert. It just pisses people off. Schnaz 05:01, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
Hello HKT. You have included the following in the "allegations" sections: "Ahmadinejad, his political supporters, and even a number of his political opponents in Iran, have denied all or some of these allegations." -- The problem I have with that is that it gives the general reader the impression that some people have only partially denied the allegations. I don't think any of the Iranians (whether supportive or against Ahmadinejad) have implied that some of the allegations may be true. While you are right that some of those who have denied some of the allegations were not in a position to authoritatively reject *ALL* of the allegations, still, the way that part of the article is currently written, gives the general reader the impression that some of the allegations are being accepted. Can we work on improving that a little? Mansour 6 July 2005 06:51 (UTC)
-- AI 23:10, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
Isfahan's Islamic Superdemocracy puts nothing in brackets. Not U 235.
The heading of this section is preposterously long. Clearly, it's not a title at all but a full-blown position statement. Earlier, I truncated it to sensible length, a change that was reverted within minutes by user Jeremygbyrne. If my edit was inadequate, I'm open to something else, as long as it's not what was there and is there now, which is just plain stupid. But if JGB wishes to get into a revert war with me, I am more than happy to oblige. Schnaz 04:53, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
As originally requested by President Bush on June 26th, the goverment had investigated whether or not Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was one of the captors of the 52 U.S. diplomats who were held hostage in Iran from 11/4/1979 to 1/20/1981--the hostage-taking was supposedly in response to Iranian unrest over the 1953 U.S. coup that toppled the democratically elected Prime Minister & rose the Shah to power & was also until being released thirty-three minutes after Ronald Reagan was sworn-in as President. Well, the CIA has officially concluded their investigation & discovered that there was "no evidence" that Mr. Ahmadinejad was invovled in any way to the 1979 hostage-taking. Ahmadinjead & his political allies concede that the newly sworn-in president was part of the students who tookover the U.S. embassy & was a devout supporter of the Ayatollah Khomeini, yet they & the currently pro-American once-anti-US leader of the captors told Iranian & U.S. media that President Ahmadinejad was not one of his fellow captors.
Ahmadinejad is believed to be a member of the Hojjatieh Society. Inasmuch as he has made in his speeches numerous references to the Mahdi, I suspect that it is a reasonable to think that he is a member, although Ahmadinejad, himself, has never admitted publicly that he is. -- Schnazola 16:43, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
When this topic was being discussed for inclusion in the main Ahmadinejad article, it made sense, perhaps, not to incorporate it. Incorporating here, though, makes perfect sense inasmuch as his alleged involvement in Hojjatieh is nothing if not controversial. The Asia Times Online has an article from September of 2005 that talks to his (and three cabinet members') close ties to the secret, eccentric society. As soon as I have a chance, I will gin up a paragraph or two and include it. -- Schnazola 16:38, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
I noticed that many (all?) of the numbered endnote/footnote links lead nowhere or, more accurately, right back to the Controversies page, itself. I suspect this is because the source text was copied and pasted from the original Ahmadinejad article, and the links are now broken.
Also, the numbering system is inconsistent, some using superscripts and others not. I'm not a big fan of superscripts because they disturb the line spacing and make articles appear sloppy. Further, there is no Notes section in which the code <references/> has been placed, so there is no home for the footnotes. I tried adding that tag myself but had no luck. -- Schnaz 21:06, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
Reference for quotation. - Objectivist-C 23:48, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Jeremygbyrne, please do not remove this section without discussion again. - Objectivist-C 03:05, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
I found this site, but I don't know if it's legit. Comments appreciated. http://www.international-economy.com/TIE_W06_Smick.pdf IronDuke 03:12, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Claims of insanity in elected officials (particularly at a presidential level) require a great deal more than the offhand opinins of an ex-CIA officer. I have changed the section to "Eschatology", which is what this is really about. JEREMY 11:59, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
This section has been added since I added the preceding section on MA's involvement in Hojjatieh -- which is an eschatological sub-sect of Shi'a Islam, something I failed to mention explicitly in the Hojjatieh section. Someone (moi?) should add wording to that effect, which would make the transition to this section better. Better still, perhaps someone can integrate the Hojjatieh and Eschatology sections. I'm thinking that the Eschatology section should be subsumed by the Hojjatieh section. -- Schnaz 18:49, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
To be fair to Baer, I think his remarks are taken ever so slightly out of context in this page. If you read the Seymour Hersh article Baer is talking about what Iran looks like from the point of view of Israel: [The Iranians] "are capable of making a bomb, hiding it, and launching it at Israel. They’re apocalyptic Shiites. If you’re sitting in Tel Aviv and you believe they’ve got nukes and missiles—you’ve got to take them out. These guys are nuts, and there’s no reason to back off." It's not entirely clear to me whether Baer is actually stating his own views in the last critical sentence or whether he's talking as thoiugh he was an Israeli.
This article desperately needs its references cleaned up (which I've just done for the main article). If this results in edit conflicts during the next half hour or so, please accept my apology. JEREMY 12:01, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Ahmadinejad's chief strategic counselor is Hassan Abbasi. -- HResearcher 16:19, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
"... For example, Hassan Abbasi, who has reportedly been the principal foreign policy voice in President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's administration and an influential Revolutionary Guard intelligence theoretician,..." - FrontPageMagazine.com [1] Is that also an anti-iranian blog? -- HResearcher 02:53, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
The Wall Street Journal referenced for new claim. -- HResearcher 03:51, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
"Another terror outfit dedicated to this recruitment drive is the “Headquarters for Commemoration of Martyrs of Global Islamic Movement”, established in 1982. It grabbed the headlines in spring of 2004 when it was introduced as an NGO in charge of recruiting “suicide volunteers” to combat “World arrogance.” As Tehran’s Mayor, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad took this organization under his wings and facilitated its activities by placing the capital's resources at its disposal." - US Alliance for Democratic Iran [2] Is this also an anti-iranian blog in your opinion? -- HResearcher 02:36, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
An editor described Iran Focus as "one of numerous web outlets of the MKO terrorist group." I added a citation needed tag to this claim initially, but after some research have decided remove the claim as entirely wrong. Ahmadinejad's involvement with OSU has been confirmed by al-Jazeera. RonCram 15:58, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
The first sentence is also not true representation of thfacts:
"On June 29, 2005, shortly after Mahmoud Ahmadinejad won the Iranian presidential election, several major western news outlets publicized various allegations against him. "
This create the impression that his views as holocaust denial and destruction of Israel are an invention of " western news outlets - which is of course not true: the man has used Iranin TV to preech for all those really bad tatste ideas.
I would like to see added what kind of entertainment besides music is being banned in Iran by Ahmadinejad with citations.
I recently heard a radio interview (on either NPR or the BBC, iirc) with an Israeli official who claimed that MA had referred to Jews as "sons of donkeys and pigs". This shocked me, and I assumed it must have been a new thing. Google doesn't know anything about it. Does anyone else? JEREMY 16:19, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, its coming from an Israeli official, not exactly the most reliable source. I've never heard this. -- Jonmedeiros 23:58, 29 August 2006 (UTC) Akoura 01:22, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
Akoura 01:22, 20 September 2006 (UTC)Akoura-(Lebanon)
Akoura
01:22, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
I am not writing this to defend Ahmadinejad's position in any way. BUT Whatever Ahmadinejad did say was NOT anitsemetic. This misuse of the race is enfuriating. Everyone in the Arab world INCLUDING Saphardic and Some Azkenazi Jews are semitic or are mixed with it. Its not a race issue and the Jews being one of the smallest of the semitic groups cannot clame the entire RACE. Ontop of that, I think that there is a difference between being against the government of Israel and Israeli people. There is an even greater difference between Israelis, and Judaism as a faith and ethnicity represented in its many groups throughout the world. So to be against Israel on the national level does not mean that you are calling for the eradication of Judaism and especially NOT making antisemetic remarks. The many Jewish communities throughout the Middle East are not being systematically attacked even though their neighbors might hate Israel, and wished it would go away. Not saying whether I think it should or shouldn't.
Simply saying what the problem isn't can sometimes help solving the problem. I don't see this as a race issue and I find that those who do see it as one are not from the region, because I will tell you, we all look the same. You can switch up the babies at birth and if no one knew then no one would have guessed. So if we collectively stopped calling this a race issue, then it won't be; because its NOT, based on any science.
This text appeared on the Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in the section called "Holocaust denial and allegations of anti-Semitism". This section now links to this page, Controversies surrounding Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. We will be replacing this text on MA's page with a summary in accordance with the summary style guideline, but not all of this information is repeated on Controversies surrounding Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. So, I put this here so that an active editor from this page can look through it and add whatever is appropriate to the article.
Happy editing! Vir4030 15:34, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Ahmadinejad repeatedly made controversial statements questioning the Holocaust, and criticized European laws against Holocaust denial. These statements were condemned by many governments, by United Nations Security Council and Secretary General Kofi Annan, and led to accusations of anti-Semitism. [1] [2] [3] [4]
According to numerous media reports, he stated that "they have invented a myth that Jews were massacred". [5] In an interview with Der Spiegel, he was asked, "Are you still saying that the Holocaust is just 'a myth'?" Ahmadinejad responded, "I will only accept something as truth if I am actually convinced of it." In the same interview, he later stated, "We oppose every type of crime against any people. But we want to know whether this crime actually took place or not. [...] If it did not occur, then the Jews have to go back to where they came from". [6]
In reaction to Ahmadinejad's comments on the Holocaust, the United States Senate passed a unanimous resolution condemning his "harmful, destructive, and anti-Semitic statements." and "hate and animosity toward all Jewish people of the world." [7]
The UN Security Council issued a statement on Dec. 9, 2005, condemning his statements denying the Holocaust as well as his statements on Israel. [8] UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, in response to reporters' questions on Ahmadinejad in August 2006, said through a spokesman that Annan "considers anyone who would try to deny the truth of the Holocaust or make false claims about it to be a bigot." [9]
Former Iranian President Mohammad Khatami said that the Holocaust was a "historic fact," while criticizing what he claimed was a connection between the Holocaust and "the persecution of the Palestinian people". [10]
The translation of his statements on the Holocaust have been disputed by the Iranian government. The government-controlled IRNA news agency has stated that Ahmadinejad said, "some have created a myth on holocaust and hold it even higher than the very belief in religion and prophets.". [11] [12] The Iranian government further responded through a spokesman who charged that "the Western media empire is trying to portrait [ sic] Iran as an anti-Semitic country. [...] If you believe in the Holocaust [...] let other people express their ideas too and then try to convince them by your justifications.". [13]
In January 2006, Iran announced a conference to examine what it described as "scientific evidence" for the Holocaust. An Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman said that "For over half a century, those who seek to prove the Holocaust have used every podium to defend their position. Now they should listen to others." The conference received widespread condemnation. [14] British Prime Minister Tony Blair called the conference as "shocking, ridiculous, and stupid." Iran reacted by inviting Blair to the conference. [15]
In addition Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has stated that “Jews are respected by everyone, by all human beings.…some people think if they accuse me of being anti-Jew they can solve the problem. No, I am not anti-Jew.…I respect them very much.…We love everyone in the world - Jews, Christians, Muslims, non-Muslims, non-Jews, non-Christians". [16]
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This putz is toast. He'll be killed by the most powerful weapon in human history....the voting booth. I feel bad for the Irainian people. The Islamic Council thwarted the previous 'reformers', and that caused MA to be a viable alternative for the voting public. Hopefully, they (the Iranians) will have learned a valued lesson about the true cause of their hardships....the Islamic Council. Those Islamic clerics are nothing more than modern-day politicos and capitalists, who dress themselves in the clothing of 15th-century barbarians....while all the time, they are only interested in holding power to themselves. Hopefully, the Irainian middle class (what remains of it) will assert itself and out-vote the ignorant peasants who cling to their allah-superstition and thier cult-of-victimhood. It is those uneducated masses who have allowed the evil Islamic council to remain in power. No matter how it eventually works out, one thing is certain....this putz is toast. I expect that the final Wiki-entry on Mahmoud Ahmadirtbag will be that he ended up as a shoe-salesman somewhere in a strip mall in the suburbs of Tehran and that one day an revenge-seeking Iranian walked into the store and gave him a 9-mm frontal lobotomy.
Amen! He and his beloved Koran! Lol Motherland73 ( talk) 08:16, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
He was stationed here in Pensacola in late '70's. He bragged how he would become president of Iran. Everyone thought that was funny. He was most times seen with Koran , reading it. Motherland73 ( talk) 08:19, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
removed wp:aww (such as MKO terrorist group -> MKO militant group)
removed undercited accusations by a known MKO network lacking wp:notability:
According to Iran Focus, soon after attending Elm-o Sanaat University in 1975 to study engineering, Ahmadinejad was caught up in the Islamic revolution of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini. Ahmadinejad founded the Islamic Student Association at his university. By 1979, he became a representative of Office for Strengthening of Unity Between Universities and Theological Seminaries, later known as OSU. The OSU was organized by Ayatollah Mohammad Beheshti, one of Khomeini's top advisors. Members of the OSU central council, including Ahmadinejad, Ibrahim Asgharzadeh, Mohsen (Mahmoud) Mirdamadi, Mohsen Kadivar, Mohsen Aghajari, and Abbas Abdi, were regularly received by Khomeini himself. The OSU leadership played a key role in the crackdown on dissident university professors and students during the Islamic Cultural Revolution of 1980. Many professors and students who did not support Khomeini were arrested and executed. [1]
removed ridiculous uncited allegations and false: Hojjatieh.
Ahmadinejad is believed by many to belong, or to have once belonged, to the anti- Bahai and anti- Sunni clandestine society known as Hojjatieh. An Islamic society to which Ahmadinejad belonged when he attended Alm-u Sanat University was, according to an article that appeared in the Asia Times Online, an extreme, traditional, and fundamentalist group that maintained close links with Hojjatieh. Three members of Ahmadinejad's cabinet are said to have Hojjatieh backgrounds, including Hojatoleslam Gholam Hossein Mohseni-Ejehyi, the intelligence chief who graduated from the Haghani theological school, founded by Hojjatieh. Ayatollah Mohammad Taqi Mesbah-Yazdi, a Shi'ite cleric closley associated with the school, issued a fatwa urging two million members of the bassij Islamic militia to vote for Ahmadinejad in the 2005 presidential elections.
Ahmadinejad was also implicated in the assassination in Austria of Abdul-Rahman Ghassemlou. Ahmadinejad was apparently instumental in smuggling the weapons used for the assassination. citation needed -- Gerash 77 02:58, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Additional studies of photos have identified a second man as Ahmadinejad. The second man is dressed in a sport jacket and turtleneck more suitable to a leader. [2] [3] - Twp weblog provided as reference, contrary to wp:cite-- Gerash 77 03:09, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
References
I think the current title needs renaming because 1) the term controversy is a Word to Avoid and 2) because 'surrounding' is unclear and has negative implications. The implication is that, if someone is 'surrounded' by something, it is essential to their nature. For example, I might state "Monica Lewinskiy was involved in a controvery but Bill Clinton is surrounded by controversy." Both words are WP:POV unless qualified by the phrase "according to (fill in the blank)". Antonrojo 01:08, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
I've add a bunch of information from the official CIA investigation into whether Ahmadinejad was involved in the hostage taking. The report is old, from August 2005, thus I am surprised it wasn't already included in the article. The results of the investigation was that there was no evidence that Ahmadinejad was involved. The edits I made with regards to this issue are these two.
The CNN report on the CIA's investigation is online here: http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/12/cia.iranpresident/index.html
Again, I think it is shocking that this reputable information wasn't covered in this article. -- Lucretius 22:22, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I searched on Google for the statement, "He is guilty of interrogating our American hostages," attributed to President Bush in the introduction. Google returned only 11 results, all citing the original Wikipedia statement. If anyone knows of a source that can corroborate this statement, they should add a citation; otherwise, it seems the statement should be deleted. TrippingTroubadour 00:10, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Well, I think I found the original transcripts which might proof that he didnt denie the holocaust etc. I'm from germany so reading it would be hard for me, I can read a bit persian, but this might work sb else out. Here is the page where you will find the links. http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=NOR20070120&articleId=4527 beforehand I have to tell you: one transc. is in persian language, one is written in englsih. I hope this will help you. By the way, In the german wiki- article it is already said that the quotes (wiped off the map etc) are wrong... I have already send my find to: Please redirect comments that have to do with Israel to Talk:Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Israel. Well I dont know if ahmadinejad is wrong quoted or not but I'd say the truht will triumph at wikipedia (-: Englishazadipedia
It sounds a little intimidating that there's a banner saying this article is part of the wikiproject judaism. Ahmadinejad doesn't hate jews if that's the point you're trying to get at. (Evidence is on Ahmadinejad article talk page) -- µWiki Talk / Contributions (YouWiki) 19:40, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
They do not deserve a place in this article. The hostage taker conspiracy, for one, has no verifiable support whatsoever. Moreover, the majority the hostages themselves have already disagreed with the theory, even after seeing the pictures. - Rosywounds ( talk) 01:00, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Normally I would agree but I think that it bears mentioning becuase it is better to explain what it is and say that it is widly considered non sense than to ignore it and leave people wondering.
Thoughts?
CaptinJohn ( talk) 10:52, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
I am somewhat amazed that the section on Ahmadinejad's activities suggesting Holocaust denial are completely merged into the Israeli article. This creates the impression that Holocaust denial, at least as it relates to Ahmadinejad, is only controversial in Israel, which is obviously not the case. This section should have its own, independent text. Niremetal ( talk) 20:37, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
He never denied the holocaust. The closest statement was interpeted as "expressing doubt". There is a significant difference. Eyalmc ( talk) 17:26, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
The links and quotes provided clearly spell Denial
This sentence shows that its a denial of the holocaust, not simply questioning a fact about it but questioning the entire event and that it has happened in the manner or to the extent historically recognized. that falls under the category of holocaust denial as it is described in wikipedia. changing the section name back to denial of the holocaust. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aonana ( talk • contribs) 14:17, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
He has been accused of flat-out denial, not skepticism, and that is the controversy; personal interpretations notwithstanding. -- Avi ( talk) 16:33, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
Any wiki is ipso facto not a reliable source because it is open to constant editing. -- Avi ( talk) 16:51, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
Well firstly, it's a blog, a personal site, as it says: "This Site is owned by a group of freedom fighters from different countries in support of Ahmed Rami's global struggle." Secondly, it is not even remotely neutral, as they themselves claim: "World Jewish Zionism, today, constitutes the last racist ideology still surviving and the Zionist's state of Israel, the last outpost of "Apartheid" in the World. Israel constitutes by its mere existence a complete defiance to all international laws, rules and principles, and the open racism manifested in the Jewish State is a violation of all ethics and morals known to Man." Eyalmc, you can most certainly find opinions of all shapes and sizes on the internet, but you seem to be in dire need of a review of WP:NPOV and WP:V, since the sources you want to add to wikipedia are completely unacceptable. Shall we start adding things from the Jewish Internet Defense Force and accept them as fact too, like their claim that Mohammed was a pedophile? I would say certainly not and I would hope you would agree. This is why we have very strict standards for accepted sources and separating opinion from fact. -- Avi ( talk) 17:56, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
I am really puzzled eyal. the quotes are in plain site. there are many sites calling this denial. sure there are many that call this questioning, doubting, challenging, skepticism. the fact remains he said the things. can we relate to what he actualy said and not ONLY to how it was described by reporters? i claim that what he said falls under the definition of holocaust denial. even if it is described somewhere else as doubt. that reporter is not sharing on wiki, did not publish on wiki, and if he wanted to publish on wiki his description would be contested. as we are doing now. ok? having a source that supports yoru view on things is good. we have sources sayign otherwise. can we continue to talk about wether the quotes are denial or not and stop talking about the various descriptions around the world. im sure ill find someone somewere describing them as "courageous" . should that also be the standard? Aonana ( talk) 18:28, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
Eyal, you're giving me a list of blogs. We know blogs can misrepresent stories. But more importantly, even if the Reuters story is absolutely correct, there are just as many, if not more, sources that indicate that he flat out denied it, and that the "doubt" is once again post-event spin. I understand you have a personal preference to one version of the history, but wikipedia cannot. -- Avi ( talk) 19:08, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
links that describe various quotes by MA as holocasut denial or claiming the holocasut is a lie
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/21/ahmadinejad-holocaust-den_n_293083.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/19/world/middleeast/19iran.html?_r=1&hp http://theweek.com/article/index/100604/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejads_Holocaust_denial http://www.foxnews.com/world/2009/09/21/ahmadinejad-proud-holocaust-denial/
i dont post the blogs, the forums, and other pretend media sources. just quotes and interpretations. Aonana ( talk) 20:53, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
eyalmc, Since i found a link where MA self describes his past claims as holocasut denial you should change your course. I am sure the presidents self interpretaion of his words and their meanings is more then enough to see all his past remarks within the context of denial. please concentrate on the link to the statement from 2009 as it is now a conrnersotne for any interpretation of MA statements about the holocaust. thanks.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32950027/
Aonana ( talk) 21:19, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
Can you classify a quote as a holocaust denial, even though it is not interpreted as such in the sources? Eyalmc ( talk) 21:12, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
i belive : yes. we can test quotes to see if they match to wikipedia definition of terms and see if they fit. f.e.: if i see a post by someone making racist remarks i can link it and describe it as racist even if the source does not describe it as racist. as long as my analysis of wether it is racist or not corresponds to wikipedia racism article. Aonana ( talk) 21:19, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
I have completely rewritten the section based on reliable secondary sources; primarily The New York Times. -- Avi ( talk) 21:36, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
Your problem is with the New York Times, the US state department, the British government, etc. Not with wikipedia. We are using reliable secondary sources in the article as we should. You have an issue with those sources' interpretations; fine, by all means, get some free webspace and post to your heart's content. However, you cannot re-interpret facts and statements to fit your worldview on wikipedia; we call that original research here and it is one of our core pillars. If you feel that Nazila Fathi or Robert F. Worth or Tony Blair or Angela Merkel or Philippe Douste-Blazy etc. are "misinterpreting" Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, you are free to contact them directly. For the first two, I suggest nytnewsnytimes.com or managing-editornytimes.com. The others need to be contacted through their respective governments. However, further attempts to sidestep wikipedia policies and guidelines in order to implement your own personal vision may be construed as disruptive editing, since this has been clearly explained multiple times. -- Avi ( talk) 22:47, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
You had an issue with the quote; I provided a section impeccably sourced that did not rely on any interpretation of the quote inside wikipedia. Wikipedia does not have to be made to conform to what you want, Eyal; it must be made to conform to its policies. Also, do not remove sourced and cited pertinent information that you do not like; it is disruptive, a POV violation, and can cause your editing privileges to be temporarily removed, or even revoked, if you continue to ignore wikipedia's policies in favor of your personal opinions. -- Avi ( talk) 15:35, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
I'm jsut happy that the 2009 decleration by MA settled the discussion of wether or not he ever denied the holocasut. at least we all agree that his self-testimony to the nature of his previous statements marks him as a holocaust denial, as reported by msnbc. Aonana ( talk) 20:00, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 ( talk) 00:42, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
The article fails several of the basic NPOV issues in particularly inappropriate manner for an article about a living person / WP:ATTACK . I have moved the article to the more neutral "Perceptions of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad " and this article should be enhanced to cover all manner in which he was perceived. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 22:48, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
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I believe Ahmadinejad trained on NAS Pensacola. He has been reported that he made a statement : "I am going to be president". Comrades have been known to call him "little Mahmoud" . This flight training is due to US selling Iran and several other middle east countries . The had to train here to fly them. This all took place during the late 70's on NAS Pensacola. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rosemls ( talk • contribs) 19:12, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
This man spent many months in training at NAS Pensacola and San Antonio Texas. I was introduced to him on NAS Pensacola. His nickname was "little Mahmoud". He is very familiar with both Air stations where he and other middle eastern air men trained to fly planes we, the us sold to them in the late 70's. I find this a bit disturbing , that he is so familiar with our bases. I presently live in Pensacola. Motherland73 ( talk) 08:15, 19 October 2021 (UTC)