This disambiguation page does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Text and/or other creative content from Constitution of the Athenians was copied or moved into Constitution of the Athenians (Aristotle). The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
Text and/or other creative content from Constitution of the Athenians was copied or moved into Constitution of the Athenians (Pseudo-Xenophon). The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
Shouldn't it be Constitution of Athens?
Add Pseudo_Xenophon Constitution of Athens. Septentrionalis 21:57, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps this should be split into two articles, Constitution of the Athenians (The Old Oligarch) and Constitution of the Athenians (Aristotle), with this page to disambiguate? Not that there's enough material now, but later...? → ( AllanBz ✎) 03:12, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
The wikisource link links to Aristotle's Constitution of the Athenians, not the Old Oligarch's. I spent a good 20 minutes looking for a passage before I figured that out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.103.4.0 ( talk) 22:58, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
There is now a rather extensive article describing the Constitution of Athens, from the (public domain) 1911 encyclopaedia, on wikisource. If someone (who has a better knowledge of the subject than me and knows how much of the EB1911 article is outdated) could incorporate part of it into the wikipedia article, there would hopefully be enough material to finally split it. If it's any help, I've copied the EB1911 article, (making some of the syntax, idiosyncratic to wikisource, more wikipedia-friendly and splitting some of the paragraphs) to this talk subpage. (I didn't change any of the actual text). Gephyra ( talk) 00:48, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Number 5 7 12:58, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
Constitution of the Athenians → The Polity of Athenians – The translation of the word Πολιτεία is obviously wrong in this article. It is translated as Polity and not as Constitution. Conste33 ( talk) 15:28, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
[10] Description of polity - American Heritage® Dictionary
The form of government of a nation, state, church, or organization. An organized society, such as a nation, having a specific form of government: "His alien philosophy found no ...
Polity - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster ... Definition of POLITY. 1: political organization . 2: a specific form of political organization . 3: a politically organized unit . 4. a: the form or constitution of a ... (NOTE: "constitution" with little "c" is not the same as "Constitution" with a capital "C." The little one means "make up, structure" instead of the document of the proper noun "Constitution." www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/polit... - Cached More results from merriam-webster.com » polity - definition of polity by the Free Online Dictionary ... pol·i·ty (p l-t) n. pl. pol·i·ties. 1. The form of government of a nation, state, church, or organization. 2. An organized society, such as a nation, having a ... www.thefreedictionary.com/polity
Note, this is not the same as "Constitution" which is a document setting up the a type of polity...federal, state, republic, democracy, monarchy, theocracy etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Conste33 ( talk • contribs) 23:22, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Up until just over a week ago, the first sentence of the lead has remained relatively unchanged since June 2014; since March 26th this article page has undergone 17 edits (at the time of writing), mostly concerning this lead sentence.
It currently reads:
"The Constitution of the Athenians (Greek: Ἀθηναίων πολιτεία Athenaion Politeia also translated The Polity of Athenians) is the name given to two texts from Classical antiquity: one probably by Aristotle or a student of his, the second attributed to Xenophon, but not thought to be his work."
Prior to this, it read:
"The Constitution of the Athenians (The Athenian constitution; Greek: Ἀθηναίων πολιτεία Athenaion Politeia) is the name given to two texts from Classical antiquity: one probably by Aristotle or a student of his, the second attributed to Xenophon, but not thought to be his work."
The major difference is in which alternative titles we mention for the work in the lead. WP:OTHERNAMES says that "significant alternative names for the topic should be mentioned in the article, usually in the first sentence or paragraph". As far as I can see, The Polity of the Athenians is not a "significant alternative name". For instance, this google ngrams search shows that "constitution of the athenians" has been more common than "polity of the athenians" consistently since 1936. The Loeb and Penguin translations both title the work "The Athenian Constitution"; the Cambridge Texts in the History of Political Thought translation calls it the "Constitution of Athens", Kenyon's translation calls it the "Athenian Constitution", the OED(2) refers to the Politeia as Constitutions (but refers to Ath. Pol. as such), and the Oxford Concise Companion to Classical Literature refers to the "collection of the 158 constitutions" of which Ath. Pol. is the only extant. Finally, volume 5 of the Cambridge Ancient History refers to the Athenian Constitution throughout.
It seems clear to me that if we are to follow WP:OTHERNAMES, the lead should follow the form which has been agreed on for the past two years, and that there is no need to add in "also translated The Polity of Athenians".
Anyone want to make a case for a different position?
@ Conste33, Conste34, Furius, LeoFrank, Dr.K., and Insertcleverphrasehere: pinging people involved in the move request discussion and the relevant article space edits.
Caeciliusinhorto ( talk) 19:46, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Constitution of the Athenians. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:24, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
This disambiguation page does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Text and/or other creative content from Constitution of the Athenians was copied or moved into Constitution of the Athenians (Aristotle). The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
Text and/or other creative content from Constitution of the Athenians was copied or moved into Constitution of the Athenians (Pseudo-Xenophon). The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
Shouldn't it be Constitution of Athens?
Add Pseudo_Xenophon Constitution of Athens. Septentrionalis 21:57, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps this should be split into two articles, Constitution of the Athenians (The Old Oligarch) and Constitution of the Athenians (Aristotle), with this page to disambiguate? Not that there's enough material now, but later...? → ( AllanBz ✎) 03:12, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
The wikisource link links to Aristotle's Constitution of the Athenians, not the Old Oligarch's. I spent a good 20 minutes looking for a passage before I figured that out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.103.4.0 ( talk) 22:58, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
There is now a rather extensive article describing the Constitution of Athens, from the (public domain) 1911 encyclopaedia, on wikisource. If someone (who has a better knowledge of the subject than me and knows how much of the EB1911 article is outdated) could incorporate part of it into the wikipedia article, there would hopefully be enough material to finally split it. If it's any help, I've copied the EB1911 article, (making some of the syntax, idiosyncratic to wikisource, more wikipedia-friendly and splitting some of the paragraphs) to this talk subpage. (I didn't change any of the actual text). Gephyra ( talk) 00:48, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Number 5 7 12:58, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
Constitution of the Athenians → The Polity of Athenians – The translation of the word Πολιτεία is obviously wrong in this article. It is translated as Polity and not as Constitution. Conste33 ( talk) 15:28, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
[10] Description of polity - American Heritage® Dictionary
The form of government of a nation, state, church, or organization. An organized society, such as a nation, having a specific form of government: "His alien philosophy found no ...
Polity - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster ... Definition of POLITY. 1: political organization . 2: a specific form of political organization . 3: a politically organized unit . 4. a: the form or constitution of a ... (NOTE: "constitution" with little "c" is not the same as "Constitution" with a capital "C." The little one means "make up, structure" instead of the document of the proper noun "Constitution." www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/polit... - Cached More results from merriam-webster.com » polity - definition of polity by the Free Online Dictionary ... pol·i·ty (p l-t) n. pl. pol·i·ties. 1. The form of government of a nation, state, church, or organization. 2. An organized society, such as a nation, having a ... www.thefreedictionary.com/polity
Note, this is not the same as "Constitution" which is a document setting up the a type of polity...federal, state, republic, democracy, monarchy, theocracy etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Conste33 ( talk • contribs) 23:22, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Up until just over a week ago, the first sentence of the lead has remained relatively unchanged since June 2014; since March 26th this article page has undergone 17 edits (at the time of writing), mostly concerning this lead sentence.
It currently reads:
"The Constitution of the Athenians (Greek: Ἀθηναίων πολιτεία Athenaion Politeia also translated The Polity of Athenians) is the name given to two texts from Classical antiquity: one probably by Aristotle or a student of his, the second attributed to Xenophon, but not thought to be his work."
Prior to this, it read:
"The Constitution of the Athenians (The Athenian constitution; Greek: Ἀθηναίων πολιτεία Athenaion Politeia) is the name given to two texts from Classical antiquity: one probably by Aristotle or a student of his, the second attributed to Xenophon, but not thought to be his work."
The major difference is in which alternative titles we mention for the work in the lead. WP:OTHERNAMES says that "significant alternative names for the topic should be mentioned in the article, usually in the first sentence or paragraph". As far as I can see, The Polity of the Athenians is not a "significant alternative name". For instance, this google ngrams search shows that "constitution of the athenians" has been more common than "polity of the athenians" consistently since 1936. The Loeb and Penguin translations both title the work "The Athenian Constitution"; the Cambridge Texts in the History of Political Thought translation calls it the "Constitution of Athens", Kenyon's translation calls it the "Athenian Constitution", the OED(2) refers to the Politeia as Constitutions (but refers to Ath. Pol. as such), and the Oxford Concise Companion to Classical Literature refers to the "collection of the 158 constitutions" of which Ath. Pol. is the only extant. Finally, volume 5 of the Cambridge Ancient History refers to the Athenian Constitution throughout.
It seems clear to me that if we are to follow WP:OTHERNAMES, the lead should follow the form which has been agreed on for the past two years, and that there is no need to add in "also translated The Polity of Athenians".
Anyone want to make a case for a different position?
@ Conste33, Conste34, Furius, LeoFrank, Dr.K., and Insertcleverphrasehere: pinging people involved in the move request discussion and the relevant article space edits.
Caeciliusinhorto ( talk) 19:46, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Constitution of the Athenians. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:24, 12 November 2016 (UTC)