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"It can be argued that for all its left wing rhetoric, punk was youth culture's equivalent to Thatcherism. Even going as far as unwittingly laying the foundations for it, as the parallels are striking. Both stressed autonomy, entrepeneurship and individualism."
BOGUS ALERT? I didn't see Crass holding hands with Maggie Thatcher in the good old days during the miner's strike? Thatcher was everything punk resented, individual autonomy does not mean a weak social state and a strong military/security-state. How one can label an entire spectrum of local movements into one coined reference to a despot boggles my mind.
Basically, a bunch of american hipsters trying to be offensive and seeing a pseudo-intellectual equivalent of punk and party-political politics aren't worth listing.
So Crass didn't hold hands with Maggie Thatcher? What kind of argument is that? The fact is, and I was there, I grew up punk, had many, many punk friends, was part of the scene, and can verify that there always has been and always will be a conservative streak amongst punks. Anarchy is one thing, but most of my friends in the 1980s and I were very much aware of how the hippies, boomers and yuppies screwed things up in society. It is a historical fact that many in the punk movement were greasers, and as a military member in the U.S. Army, I cannot remember ANY unit that didn't have three or four soldiers who went against the grain of metal/hair bands/new-wave ripoff bands. Some were liberals, some even against the military, but we loved Reagan, Mulroney and Thatcher, because they were proud patriots who wanted government out of our lives. Surely, one can quibble with this, saying "social conservatism is not out of the bedroom, blah blah blah," but another distinguishing point of conservative punks is their laissez-faire view of the economy and socially moderate and/or liberal POV. I know this to be true BECAUSE I WAS THERE. Don't write us off, because you have an insecurity with conservative types. Robertjonesphoto 06:02, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
True, but liberals who stand up for gun control, anti-smoking laws, and censorship of music that is disrespectful to women or gays (which punk has ALWAYS been, even if not a true ideological view, but to piss liberals off) aren't exactly in tune with punk values. Conservative punk for the most part means libertarian punk, but it also means disrespecting liberal pc hippie crap. Libertarian values have been as prominent in punk as liberal values, so in that sense, conservative punk is just as important. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.248.9.115 ( talk) 00:41, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
This article survived an Articles for Deletion debate. The discussion can be found here. - Splash talk 03:10, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
I think this has to be rewritten as an article on the movement, not a website. - Randwicked 03:29, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
It appears as if an individual from IP 80.176.234.47 is removing the link to the website repeatedly in a POV attempt to make the website inaccessible to wikipedia readers. This individual replaced the link with a link to the World Socialist News website.
If there really is a "Conservative Punk" movement, is it related to Straight edge? And should Punk Voter be redirected to Rock Against Bush, as had been suggested there? Esquizombi 02:58, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
I feel like this article overlooks some pretty clear points that could (and should?) be included as responses to the views of conservative punks that are expressed here. I don't think it's entirely out of line to expect that the article on conservative punk would have conservative punks' general response to other punks along with the corresponding response. For example, it says, "They even argue that as these values become more mainstream, conservatism becomes more punk, not less. They even goes as far as saying left wing punks are becoming what punk was a reaction against: hippies." Why not point out that the punk response to this is that punk isn't just anti-hippy and that punk ideals sit firmly on one side of certain issues? Or when it notes that conservative punks are pro-individualism, shouldn't we point out that plenty of non-conservative punks are too? Individualism is not a conservative ideal, not exclusively, and especially not in this sort of a context.
When a sentence says "because he believed ..." one should not be (1) trying to clean up his personal beliefs with outside political theory or (2) using scare quotes (violates MoS and is in bad form). If we paraphrase a quotation, we need not quote particular words just because someone thinks the person being indirectly quoted is incorrect. I have been trying to avoid edit warring, but frankly, I find it bothersome that there is an insistence on trying to make his statements more "correct" than it is. (The use of scare quotes here was intentional - to illustrate the unprofessionally of such selective punctuation.) The sentence is fine as is. Adding scare quotes or notes about how he's wrong about political theory are not appropriate. This isn't a place to criticize or correct his political views. -- Cheeser1 19:18, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Unlike in this article, Michale Graves is listed as the founder of "Conservative Punk" on his respective page. Please address this contradiction by citing sources and making appropriate edits where necessary. Thank you! CessationLeakingThrough ( talk) 02:22, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
Wait. What? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.215.122.16 ( talk) 19:18, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
This entry is missing quite a bit of information. Basically, this is about a defunct website involving 3 people, which really doesn't constitute a movement or genre. How about a list of conservative punks, like Johnny Ramone? Any conservative punk bands? Jtyroler ( talk) 18:40, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 2006 March 25. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
![]() | This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
"It can be argued that for all its left wing rhetoric, punk was youth culture's equivalent to Thatcherism. Even going as far as unwittingly laying the foundations for it, as the parallels are striking. Both stressed autonomy, entrepeneurship and individualism."
BOGUS ALERT? I didn't see Crass holding hands with Maggie Thatcher in the good old days during the miner's strike? Thatcher was everything punk resented, individual autonomy does not mean a weak social state and a strong military/security-state. How one can label an entire spectrum of local movements into one coined reference to a despot boggles my mind.
Basically, a bunch of american hipsters trying to be offensive and seeing a pseudo-intellectual equivalent of punk and party-political politics aren't worth listing.
So Crass didn't hold hands with Maggie Thatcher? What kind of argument is that? The fact is, and I was there, I grew up punk, had many, many punk friends, was part of the scene, and can verify that there always has been and always will be a conservative streak amongst punks. Anarchy is one thing, but most of my friends in the 1980s and I were very much aware of how the hippies, boomers and yuppies screwed things up in society. It is a historical fact that many in the punk movement were greasers, and as a military member in the U.S. Army, I cannot remember ANY unit that didn't have three or four soldiers who went against the grain of metal/hair bands/new-wave ripoff bands. Some were liberals, some even against the military, but we loved Reagan, Mulroney and Thatcher, because they were proud patriots who wanted government out of our lives. Surely, one can quibble with this, saying "social conservatism is not out of the bedroom, blah blah blah," but another distinguishing point of conservative punks is their laissez-faire view of the economy and socially moderate and/or liberal POV. I know this to be true BECAUSE I WAS THERE. Don't write us off, because you have an insecurity with conservative types. Robertjonesphoto 06:02, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
True, but liberals who stand up for gun control, anti-smoking laws, and censorship of music that is disrespectful to women or gays (which punk has ALWAYS been, even if not a true ideological view, but to piss liberals off) aren't exactly in tune with punk values. Conservative punk for the most part means libertarian punk, but it also means disrespecting liberal pc hippie crap. Libertarian values have been as prominent in punk as liberal values, so in that sense, conservative punk is just as important. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.248.9.115 ( talk) 00:41, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
This article survived an Articles for Deletion debate. The discussion can be found here. - Splash talk 03:10, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
I think this has to be rewritten as an article on the movement, not a website. - Randwicked 03:29, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
It appears as if an individual from IP 80.176.234.47 is removing the link to the website repeatedly in a POV attempt to make the website inaccessible to wikipedia readers. This individual replaced the link with a link to the World Socialist News website.
If there really is a "Conservative Punk" movement, is it related to Straight edge? And should Punk Voter be redirected to Rock Against Bush, as had been suggested there? Esquizombi 02:58, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
I feel like this article overlooks some pretty clear points that could (and should?) be included as responses to the views of conservative punks that are expressed here. I don't think it's entirely out of line to expect that the article on conservative punk would have conservative punks' general response to other punks along with the corresponding response. For example, it says, "They even argue that as these values become more mainstream, conservatism becomes more punk, not less. They even goes as far as saying left wing punks are becoming what punk was a reaction against: hippies." Why not point out that the punk response to this is that punk isn't just anti-hippy and that punk ideals sit firmly on one side of certain issues? Or when it notes that conservative punks are pro-individualism, shouldn't we point out that plenty of non-conservative punks are too? Individualism is not a conservative ideal, not exclusively, and especially not in this sort of a context.
When a sentence says "because he believed ..." one should not be (1) trying to clean up his personal beliefs with outside political theory or (2) using scare quotes (violates MoS and is in bad form). If we paraphrase a quotation, we need not quote particular words just because someone thinks the person being indirectly quoted is incorrect. I have been trying to avoid edit warring, but frankly, I find it bothersome that there is an insistence on trying to make his statements more "correct" than it is. (The use of scare quotes here was intentional - to illustrate the unprofessionally of such selective punctuation.) The sentence is fine as is. Adding scare quotes or notes about how he's wrong about political theory are not appropriate. This isn't a place to criticize or correct his political views. -- Cheeser1 19:18, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Unlike in this article, Michale Graves is listed as the founder of "Conservative Punk" on his respective page. Please address this contradiction by citing sources and making appropriate edits where necessary. Thank you! CessationLeakingThrough ( talk) 02:22, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
Wait. What? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.215.122.16 ( talk) 19:18, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
This entry is missing quite a bit of information. Basically, this is about a defunct website involving 3 people, which really doesn't constitute a movement or genre. How about a list of conservative punks, like Johnny Ramone? Any conservative punk bands? Jtyroler ( talk) 18:40, 13 January 2014 (UTC)