This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
what is Smartdisk. The link is red and as far as i know its a company. If you search google it doesn't seem to say anything different. Of course I didn't look at all 1,390,000 results but the first 30 are all the same. My question is: is at a type of storage or a company? If it is only a company should it be listed here? Bawolff 02:30, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Sorry if something like this was mentioned already. I was redirected here from memory chips, but this article seems to be mainly more permanent memory, "storage," like hard disks, floppies, CDs, not RAM, Flash, etc. Is there a better page to redirect to? -- Twilight Realm 23:59, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
The first intro paragraph does not state clearly the difference between memory and storage in the sense that memory is volatile. I think the distiction is important even if both are explained in the same article under computer storage.-- Kim Nevelsteen 22:34, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
I think that in all types of computer memories, if it does not exist, we need informations of how it does function, what is its construction? -- User:Vanished user 8ij3r8jwefi 16:52, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
As an organizing concept for computer data storage I have found the "Storage Pyramid" useful. The Y axis is access time and the X axis is capacity. I think a highly granular approach, starting with the CPU's registers, on-chip I&D caches, L2 cache, main memory (RAM), and then off to disk, flash, tape & optical makes a lot of sense. Then it is not about processing, but about data. I believe I have some cycles to help with this too. Let me know. www.storagemojo.com
I have started cleaning up the article. Any comments regarding the direction I'm taking, and any help would be welcome. I also propose that the article should re-merged with memory (computers), since storage and memory are separated only in a very casual sense and it is very hard to discuss the related concepts separately, especially since there used to be no distinction, and a large part of the industry is busily working to remove any present distinction. I think the problem with the August 2005 version was bad organization, not the fact that storage and memory were discussed together. Aapo Laitinen 00:13, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
My digital camera is not a computer, its data storage device should not be considered 'computer storage'. The name 'computer storage' is simply the wrong term for something like a flash card. Kevin_b_er 00:59, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
@ 2006-08-18 02:59Z
The name "computer storage" to cover all storage media is irrespective of the fact that analog data storage still is not obsolete and even digital storage is used in applications other than computing. The merge should be reversed. Oicumayberight 21:32, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
@ 2006-09-09T02:29Z
@ 2006-09-09T02:46Z
I moved this page to Electronic Information Storage. If someone wants to split the page, having storage signal processing on one page and storage media on another, thats fine. If someone want's to contrast computers storage from other uses on a different page that's fine too. I just don't want to write articles about the alternate uses of common electronic information storage methods with duplicate information and have to worry about version control. My suggestion to the computer writers is to not try to force every technology into a von Neumann computer model, because not everything fits. Some of these technologies have a much longer history and possibly an alternate future than computing. Oicumayberight 12:11, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
@ 2006-10-08T06:08Z
Taking into consideration that computers don't have to be electronic and that "computer storage" sounds like a store room for PCs, I recommend 3 things:
1) This page is renamed "Computer memory" and only discusses processes for reading and writing digital data RAM, ROM, PROM, device formatting, parallel, serial, etc. Only the storage devices that are unique to the process of computing should be discussed in detail on this page. Storage devices that can store analog data or data for non-computing devices (e.g. magnetic tape recorder) should be discussed on the appropriate page. Oicumayberight 00:39, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
@ 2006-10-09T22:18Z
@ 2006-10-10T00:40Z
2) The " Data storage device" page stays separate and expands to include analog as well as digital. Since most electrical information is mechanical, magnetic or optical before it is converted to electrical, use those categories for everything that doesn't require electrical power to maintain the information. Batteries, capacitors, tubes and transistors are examples of the few exclusively electrical storage devices. You can talk about punch cards on that page. You could technically say that a printed book is an optical data storage device on that page if you want to be accurate. The page should make the distinction between the "accessing device" (e.g. player, reader, writer) and "holding device" (e.g. disk, microchip, reel, etc.) Oicumayberight 00:39, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
@ 2006-10-09T22:18Z
3) Stop trying to fit everything that is used by computers to fit exclusively within the context of the Von Neumann computer model. It seems to limit emerging technologies that are not computer related from getting exposure on the wikipedia. Devices like cell phones and digital cameras may integrate with computers, but are not considered computers, nor should they be. This will keep non-computer scientists like myself from having to rename pages that are monopolizing terminology. I wouldn't have renamed this page if there weren't so many redirects to it that had little or nothing to do with computing. Oicumayberight 00:39, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
@ 2006-10-09T22:18Z
@ 2006-10-10T00:40Z
quote from article:
In a home computer, storage will often take the form of:
- A hard disk, which stores the user's files and programs. It keeps data even if the computer is turned off, and has a large capacity.
- different sorts of drives
- tertiary storage, using robotic arms
Could someone perhaps expand upon the 'tertiary storage' concept (which isn't discussed in the article), or take it out if it's vandalism (can't tell which it is)? Thanks. AustinZ 01:43, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
What about a jukebox? Wouldn't that be a better example for the general public? 163.1.143.187 11:03, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
What exactly is the point of adding memory cards? I mean, the hardrive stores memory right? I'm having a hard time understanding the article. I need an answer to this before I start reading the article again. THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED! 22:16, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
One thing that is on the flops article is a nice trends table that tracks how the cost/flop has improved over time. I would LOVE to see something similar here for hard drive memory, flash memory, and RAM memory. Any idea where such information could come, and if we could include it here? -- Jlc46 17:14, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
Since this article is focused on the Main storage/ Primary storage, Secondary storage, Tertiary storage concepts and those pages are mostly stubs, I think they should be merged into this page. Also, the major section in this article that lists technologies is cluttered and disproportionate. Much of it should be moved to pages that can be much more specific. Data storage device and the other technology specific pages would be good places to put this info. -- Austin Murphy 16:44, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
There is no mention of the concept of 'ECC' or 'non-ECC' memory. When I hunt, I can end up at Forward error correction but that's not a useful article explaining memory.
What is ECC memory? What does it look like?
-- Sy / (talk) 11:28, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I still think computer storage sounds like a store room for computer. I suggest renaming this page "computer data storage". I directed that page name to this page, but I think the redirect should be reversed. Oicumayberight 09:42, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
"Content-addressable storage can be implemented using software (computer program) or hardware (computer device), with hardware being faster but more expensive option."
Are "(computer program)" and "(computer device)" needed? "software" and "hardware" are linked for a reason.
I am a Wikipedia noob so feel free to correct me.
-- Pokeman 02:33, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Mass storage is vague term. How much storage do you need to have before it's mass storage? Is a 40 MB HDD from 1988 still a mass storage device? I suggest dumping the existing mass storage page and replacing it with a redirect to this page. There isn't much there to salvage... Also mass storage is not strictly limited to secondary storage. The typical example of mass storage is a hard disk, but tapes and DVDs are also a form of mass storage that don't usually fit into the the definition of secondary storage. -- Austin Murphy 18:37, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Please see IEEE Mass Storage Systems Technical Committee. While the definition of Mass Storage may have changed over the years it is clearly one of many subsets of Computer Data Storage and therefore should remain as a separate article. Perhaps the article needs rewriting but not eliminating Tom94022 17:45, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
It is not clear this section is appropriate to the article which is more focused on the architecture of the data storage and the components thereof. For example, compression was well established as a means of reducing the size of the stored information well before de-duplication appeared yet compression not been cited. To me, de-duplication is just another, albeit more sophisticated compression within a SAN or NAS. I propose deleting the section but would like to hear some discussion. Tom94022 ( talk) 15:50, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
so funny —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.152.53.126 ( talk) 19:02, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
The following section is best understood from a historical POV where usage of the terms evolved. Economically, speed is an asset when the CPU is operating on the data, whereas size is an asset when reading or saving the data streaming to or from the CPU.
Main memory vs. Secondary Storage
In traditional parlance, main memory contains data that are actively being used (for example, the programs currently being run and the data they are operating on). "Main memory" is typically high-speed, relatively small, is often (but not always) volatile.
Secondary storage, also known as peripheral storage, is where the computer stores information that is not necessarily in current use. It is typically slower and higher-capacity than main memory. Peripheral storage is almost always non-volatile.
I propose this substituted text. Ancheta Wis 05:36, 11 May 2004 (UTC)
Spintronics anyone?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.113.16.28 ( talk) 14:06, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
In the first section, this is said, this should be verified though I do not have time at this moment...
@ 2007-02-24T17:18Z
There is a discrepancy with the ways a megabyte is measured. Companies which produce secondary storage tend to use the 1 = 1000 standard metric argument, probably because it is better for marketing. Meaning the MB count is higher using this method, making the storage device look like it holds more data. However, software companies such as Microsoft, as well as primary storage manufacturers use what is technically correct, the 1 = 1024. Remember that this is computer science, not SI mathematics. Numbers work differently than they work in the real world.
Wow, I just looked at the dates and realized that this argument has long passed, but I am posting this already, only because I already typed it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.32.4.83 ( talk) 03:40, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
I think something like this would be more correct. Normally memory is used to refer to RAM, or virtual memory is used to refer to all addressable storage space on architectures and operating systems that support virtual memory and something like swapping. Normal hard drive storage space would not be called memory, as it is only accessible through system calls and sequences of I/O instructions, not through memory operations. Although certainly operating system mechanisms like virtual memory and RAM-disks can blur the boundaries. NTK 18:05, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I'm english and I use the word memory far more often than storage. Is this just me? or should the distinction between US and UK words be kept the way it is?
@ 2006-07-03 00:19Z
In my personal experience, as per all the posters above, the term 'storage' isn't used to refer to volatile memory. Could someone provide a reference for this statement
To whoever made the above unsigned comment, a quick search for "real storage" will give you a definition. Since virtual storage is being discussed, and also to distinguish between hardware and memory content, I'd suggest adding a section that clarifies the distinction.
For a historical example and one that's easy to find references to, you can check IBM's z/VM command reference manual, which I believe is available on line. The CP (control program) query command, which is the layer below the virtual machine level, will give information about memory, not disk, if you query storage. For a privileged user (class A system administrator) "QUERY STORAGE" will give information on real storage, or real memory. For a general (class G) user, it will give information on virtual storage, which of course looks like real memory to the user's virtual machine. A class A user would need to "QUERY VIRTUAL STORAGE" to get information on memory being used by the virtual machine that's issuing the command or would end up querying real memory by using the class G form of the command.
I use this as an example because it is a documented use of a command that was used the same way in 1972 as it is today. In addition to calling memory "real storage," it was also commonly referred to as core storage. When I first learned about core storage, it literally consisted of a bunch of wires passing through iron cores, each one used to store a bit. But programmers talked about what's "in core" for many years after that. So there's no question that storage referred to volatile memory going back to the early days of computers, and nobody used it to refer to disk drives.
In the example above, the distinction between what the computer reports as storage based on context is simple. Virtual storage refers to the content of memory as the user's application sees it, whether or not the OS has it there at any given instant. If we step out of the mainframe world, real memory is only a concern for typical end users with respect to whether their total hardware capacity can support what they run. If virtual storage is not discussed in the main article, there's nothing giving readers a clue what's meant when referring to what's in memory, because some of it might be in real storage and some might be swapped out to auxiliary storage.
Hagrinas ( talk) 01:31, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
No mention of this primitive storage device, as used by HP-65, etc. I remember spending longer convincing my boss that it worked than I did programming it! SombreGreenbul ( talk) 16:17, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
Does any system built in the past 20 years use CRC in storage? I would be interested in -- and surprised by -- any examples. (Ideally, examples in the form of a reliable source WP:RS that we could use as citations in this article).
Recently, I changed the sentence that previously said "The cyclic redundancy check (CRC) method is typically used in storage for error detection and correction."
That edit was reverted with the comment "CRC was used and probably still used in storage".
Really?
My understanding is that, while a typical CRC is excellent for detecting errors and widely used in communication, CRC is useless for correcting errors in storage.
The current hard drive and random-access memory and ECC memory articles never mention "CRC". Instead, the hard drive article mentions "Reed–Solomon error correction" and "low-density parity-check codes", which (unlike CRC) correct bit errors. Likewise, the ECC memory article instead mentions "SECDED Hamming code" and "triple modular redundancy", which (unlike CRC) correct bit errors.
I propose that we begin the sentence "... method is typically used in storage for error detection and correction." with some method that actually is commonly used in storage for error detection and correction. -- DavidCary ( talk) 05:08, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
Article needs to be brought up-to-date. Secondary data storage is no longer just traditional HDD-based, that is spinning disks. There are now SSD, SSHD and OSD options. Obviously, solid-state-based date storage devices do not have seek-time latency. Should also mention object-based storage ( OSD) as a next-generation data storage architecture, particularly for unstructured data, such as images and video, linked with the rise of companies such as Facebook and YouTube. 66.155.23.67 ( talk) — Preceding undated comment added 12:16, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
I didn't see mention of cloud data storage i this article. Did I miss something? 70.247.162.60 ( talk) 15:24, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
(Copied from tom94022 talk page)
This is authoritative referenced info. Where should this go? This shouldn't be deleted.
Researchers at University of Southampton discovered a way to store 360 terabytes of data on a quarter sized disc for billions of years preserving humans' learned information. The scientists use a sophisticated laser to encode the information into minuscule formations, known as nanostructures, inside fused quartz. The structures alter the way light travels through the glass, allowing the data to be read by special optical devices. [1] -- Wyn.junior ( talk) 18:01, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
Since now GPUs are also becoming widely used, should we use processor as a general term (to refer to both CPU and GPU) instead of CPU alone? Previously CPU alone was synonymous for processor, but it is no longer true. -- Bhattasamuel ( talk) 12:51, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
I did not expect this gem hidden inside trivial Computer_data_storage#Hierarchy_of_storage.
This page is huge and most of the statement are historical/trivial. Please don't merge articles about professional terminology with historic articles about Punched cards. It should be stated at History of computer data storage, not at Computer data storage (or Memory hierarchy). Ushkin N ( talk) 21:16, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
Data deduplication, Data proliferation can be used at any level.
Yes there in-memory deduplication.
There so many unsourced inaccuracies in this article, that I'm simply using Memory hierarchy. Ushkin N ( talk) 03:47, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
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The article now is mostly physical: speed of access, energy use, hierarchy, etc. There needs to be something about the business end: concentration and competition of manufacturers, buying storage hardware vs. renting online storage, license and privacy restrictions, etc. Let me know if there is another article which gives an overview of the business end. If not, I could start adding a section here, and if it gets big it could then become a separate article.
For example Western Digital and Seagate each has about 40% of the hard drive market; Toshiba has most of the rest, and the total is declining. The market for solid state drives is rising. The biggest flash memory manufacturers are Samsung, Toshiba and Sandisk (Western Digital).
Licenses from different companies have different pitfalls:
There are articles on very specific storage businesses, such as Comparison of file hosting services and Comparison of online backup services, so maybe there's a general article on the computer storage business already. Numbersinstitute ( talk) 19:27, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
Searching for " overprovisioning" currently leads to a disambiguous page, which has a link to this article. However, this article currently doesn't mention overprovisioning. Should "overprovisioning" be added to this article, or should it be a separate article? I think there is enough information about "overprovisioning" for creating a dedicated article about it. The article can be named "Overprovisioning (computer data storage)". The following is a list of some items that we can include:
Please feel free to contribute! Somerandomuser ( talk) 16:04, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
The article seems to assume that primary storage is volatile, and delay lines certainly were. However, the 1950s and 1960s were dominated by nonvolatile primary storage, e.g., core memory, magnetic drum, magnetic rod, magnetic thin film.
Devices such magnetic tape drives served the role of secondary storage on early machines without disk storage, but on machines with disks they served a role closer to tertiary storage, although usually without an automatic tape library.
The 1960s and 1970s had several technologies that, while slower than disks, were faster than the 5–60 seconds in the description of tertiary storage. These included
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul ( talk) 14:48, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
Generally, the fast volatile technologies (which lose data when off power) are referred to as "memory", while slower persistent technologies are referred to as "storage". Generally, the fast volatile technologies (which lose data when off power) are referred to as "memory", while slower persistent technologies are referred to as "storage".In the 1950s through early 1970s, faster persistent technologies were referred to as both memory and storage, depending on the vendor and sometimes the device.
Today, fast volatile technologies (which lose data when off power) are typically used as "memory", while slower persistent technologies are used as "storage".
References
Should the article mention SD cards, or have they been supplanted by USB thumb drives? Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul ( talk) 13:23, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
@
Tom94022: I changed In contemporary usage, memory is usually
semiconductor memory storage read-write
random-access memory, typically
DRAM
to In contemporary usage, memory is usually
semiconductor read-write
random-access memory, typically
DRAM
to eliminate redundant use of the word memory.
Tom94022 then changed it to In contemporary usage, memory is usually fast but temporary
semiconductor
read-write memory, typically
DRAM
, which introduced adjacent links.
Can somebody come up with wording that is clear, concise and complies with wiki guidelines on adjacent links? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul ( talk) 20:52, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
what is Smartdisk. The link is red and as far as i know its a company. If you search google it doesn't seem to say anything different. Of course I didn't look at all 1,390,000 results but the first 30 are all the same. My question is: is at a type of storage or a company? If it is only a company should it be listed here? Bawolff 02:30, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Sorry if something like this was mentioned already. I was redirected here from memory chips, but this article seems to be mainly more permanent memory, "storage," like hard disks, floppies, CDs, not RAM, Flash, etc. Is there a better page to redirect to? -- Twilight Realm 23:59, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
The first intro paragraph does not state clearly the difference between memory and storage in the sense that memory is volatile. I think the distiction is important even if both are explained in the same article under computer storage.-- Kim Nevelsteen 22:34, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
I think that in all types of computer memories, if it does not exist, we need informations of how it does function, what is its construction? -- User:Vanished user 8ij3r8jwefi 16:52, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
As an organizing concept for computer data storage I have found the "Storage Pyramid" useful. The Y axis is access time and the X axis is capacity. I think a highly granular approach, starting with the CPU's registers, on-chip I&D caches, L2 cache, main memory (RAM), and then off to disk, flash, tape & optical makes a lot of sense. Then it is not about processing, but about data. I believe I have some cycles to help with this too. Let me know. www.storagemojo.com
I have started cleaning up the article. Any comments regarding the direction I'm taking, and any help would be welcome. I also propose that the article should re-merged with memory (computers), since storage and memory are separated only in a very casual sense and it is very hard to discuss the related concepts separately, especially since there used to be no distinction, and a large part of the industry is busily working to remove any present distinction. I think the problem with the August 2005 version was bad organization, not the fact that storage and memory were discussed together. Aapo Laitinen 00:13, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
My digital camera is not a computer, its data storage device should not be considered 'computer storage'. The name 'computer storage' is simply the wrong term for something like a flash card. Kevin_b_er 00:59, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
@ 2006-08-18 02:59Z
The name "computer storage" to cover all storage media is irrespective of the fact that analog data storage still is not obsolete and even digital storage is used in applications other than computing. The merge should be reversed. Oicumayberight 21:32, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
@ 2006-09-09T02:29Z
@ 2006-09-09T02:46Z
I moved this page to Electronic Information Storage. If someone wants to split the page, having storage signal processing on one page and storage media on another, thats fine. If someone want's to contrast computers storage from other uses on a different page that's fine too. I just don't want to write articles about the alternate uses of common electronic information storage methods with duplicate information and have to worry about version control. My suggestion to the computer writers is to not try to force every technology into a von Neumann computer model, because not everything fits. Some of these technologies have a much longer history and possibly an alternate future than computing. Oicumayberight 12:11, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
@ 2006-10-08T06:08Z
Taking into consideration that computers don't have to be electronic and that "computer storage" sounds like a store room for PCs, I recommend 3 things:
1) This page is renamed "Computer memory" and only discusses processes for reading and writing digital data RAM, ROM, PROM, device formatting, parallel, serial, etc. Only the storage devices that are unique to the process of computing should be discussed in detail on this page. Storage devices that can store analog data or data for non-computing devices (e.g. magnetic tape recorder) should be discussed on the appropriate page. Oicumayberight 00:39, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
@ 2006-10-09T22:18Z
@ 2006-10-10T00:40Z
2) The " Data storage device" page stays separate and expands to include analog as well as digital. Since most electrical information is mechanical, magnetic or optical before it is converted to electrical, use those categories for everything that doesn't require electrical power to maintain the information. Batteries, capacitors, tubes and transistors are examples of the few exclusively electrical storage devices. You can talk about punch cards on that page. You could technically say that a printed book is an optical data storage device on that page if you want to be accurate. The page should make the distinction between the "accessing device" (e.g. player, reader, writer) and "holding device" (e.g. disk, microchip, reel, etc.) Oicumayberight 00:39, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
@ 2006-10-09T22:18Z
3) Stop trying to fit everything that is used by computers to fit exclusively within the context of the Von Neumann computer model. It seems to limit emerging technologies that are not computer related from getting exposure on the wikipedia. Devices like cell phones and digital cameras may integrate with computers, but are not considered computers, nor should they be. This will keep non-computer scientists like myself from having to rename pages that are monopolizing terminology. I wouldn't have renamed this page if there weren't so many redirects to it that had little or nothing to do with computing. Oicumayberight 00:39, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
@ 2006-10-09T22:18Z
@ 2006-10-10T00:40Z
quote from article:
In a home computer, storage will often take the form of:
- A hard disk, which stores the user's files and programs. It keeps data even if the computer is turned off, and has a large capacity.
- different sorts of drives
- tertiary storage, using robotic arms
Could someone perhaps expand upon the 'tertiary storage' concept (which isn't discussed in the article), or take it out if it's vandalism (can't tell which it is)? Thanks. AustinZ 01:43, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
What about a jukebox? Wouldn't that be a better example for the general public? 163.1.143.187 11:03, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
What exactly is the point of adding memory cards? I mean, the hardrive stores memory right? I'm having a hard time understanding the article. I need an answer to this before I start reading the article again. THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED! 22:16, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
One thing that is on the flops article is a nice trends table that tracks how the cost/flop has improved over time. I would LOVE to see something similar here for hard drive memory, flash memory, and RAM memory. Any idea where such information could come, and if we could include it here? -- Jlc46 17:14, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
Since this article is focused on the Main storage/ Primary storage, Secondary storage, Tertiary storage concepts and those pages are mostly stubs, I think they should be merged into this page. Also, the major section in this article that lists technologies is cluttered and disproportionate. Much of it should be moved to pages that can be much more specific. Data storage device and the other technology specific pages would be good places to put this info. -- Austin Murphy 16:44, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
There is no mention of the concept of 'ECC' or 'non-ECC' memory. When I hunt, I can end up at Forward error correction but that's not a useful article explaining memory.
What is ECC memory? What does it look like?
-- Sy / (talk) 11:28, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I still think computer storage sounds like a store room for computer. I suggest renaming this page "computer data storage". I directed that page name to this page, but I think the redirect should be reversed. Oicumayberight 09:42, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
"Content-addressable storage can be implemented using software (computer program) or hardware (computer device), with hardware being faster but more expensive option."
Are "(computer program)" and "(computer device)" needed? "software" and "hardware" are linked for a reason.
I am a Wikipedia noob so feel free to correct me.
-- Pokeman 02:33, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Mass storage is vague term. How much storage do you need to have before it's mass storage? Is a 40 MB HDD from 1988 still a mass storage device? I suggest dumping the existing mass storage page and replacing it with a redirect to this page. There isn't much there to salvage... Also mass storage is not strictly limited to secondary storage. The typical example of mass storage is a hard disk, but tapes and DVDs are also a form of mass storage that don't usually fit into the the definition of secondary storage. -- Austin Murphy 18:37, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Please see IEEE Mass Storage Systems Technical Committee. While the definition of Mass Storage may have changed over the years it is clearly one of many subsets of Computer Data Storage and therefore should remain as a separate article. Perhaps the article needs rewriting but not eliminating Tom94022 17:45, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
It is not clear this section is appropriate to the article which is more focused on the architecture of the data storage and the components thereof. For example, compression was well established as a means of reducing the size of the stored information well before de-duplication appeared yet compression not been cited. To me, de-duplication is just another, albeit more sophisticated compression within a SAN or NAS. I propose deleting the section but would like to hear some discussion. Tom94022 ( talk) 15:50, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
so funny —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.152.53.126 ( talk) 19:02, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
The following section is best understood from a historical POV where usage of the terms evolved. Economically, speed is an asset when the CPU is operating on the data, whereas size is an asset when reading or saving the data streaming to or from the CPU.
Main memory vs. Secondary Storage
In traditional parlance, main memory contains data that are actively being used (for example, the programs currently being run and the data they are operating on). "Main memory" is typically high-speed, relatively small, is often (but not always) volatile.
Secondary storage, also known as peripheral storage, is where the computer stores information that is not necessarily in current use. It is typically slower and higher-capacity than main memory. Peripheral storage is almost always non-volatile.
I propose this substituted text. Ancheta Wis 05:36, 11 May 2004 (UTC)
Spintronics anyone?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.113.16.28 ( talk) 14:06, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
In the first section, this is said, this should be verified though I do not have time at this moment...
@ 2007-02-24T17:18Z
There is a discrepancy with the ways a megabyte is measured. Companies which produce secondary storage tend to use the 1 = 1000 standard metric argument, probably because it is better for marketing. Meaning the MB count is higher using this method, making the storage device look like it holds more data. However, software companies such as Microsoft, as well as primary storage manufacturers use what is technically correct, the 1 = 1024. Remember that this is computer science, not SI mathematics. Numbers work differently than they work in the real world.
Wow, I just looked at the dates and realized that this argument has long passed, but I am posting this already, only because I already typed it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.32.4.83 ( talk) 03:40, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
I think something like this would be more correct. Normally memory is used to refer to RAM, or virtual memory is used to refer to all addressable storage space on architectures and operating systems that support virtual memory and something like swapping. Normal hard drive storage space would not be called memory, as it is only accessible through system calls and sequences of I/O instructions, not through memory operations. Although certainly operating system mechanisms like virtual memory and RAM-disks can blur the boundaries. NTK 18:05, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I'm english and I use the word memory far more often than storage. Is this just me? or should the distinction between US and UK words be kept the way it is?
@ 2006-07-03 00:19Z
In my personal experience, as per all the posters above, the term 'storage' isn't used to refer to volatile memory. Could someone provide a reference for this statement
To whoever made the above unsigned comment, a quick search for "real storage" will give you a definition. Since virtual storage is being discussed, and also to distinguish between hardware and memory content, I'd suggest adding a section that clarifies the distinction.
For a historical example and one that's easy to find references to, you can check IBM's z/VM command reference manual, which I believe is available on line. The CP (control program) query command, which is the layer below the virtual machine level, will give information about memory, not disk, if you query storage. For a privileged user (class A system administrator) "QUERY STORAGE" will give information on real storage, or real memory. For a general (class G) user, it will give information on virtual storage, which of course looks like real memory to the user's virtual machine. A class A user would need to "QUERY VIRTUAL STORAGE" to get information on memory being used by the virtual machine that's issuing the command or would end up querying real memory by using the class G form of the command.
I use this as an example because it is a documented use of a command that was used the same way in 1972 as it is today. In addition to calling memory "real storage," it was also commonly referred to as core storage. When I first learned about core storage, it literally consisted of a bunch of wires passing through iron cores, each one used to store a bit. But programmers talked about what's "in core" for many years after that. So there's no question that storage referred to volatile memory going back to the early days of computers, and nobody used it to refer to disk drives.
In the example above, the distinction between what the computer reports as storage based on context is simple. Virtual storage refers to the content of memory as the user's application sees it, whether or not the OS has it there at any given instant. If we step out of the mainframe world, real memory is only a concern for typical end users with respect to whether their total hardware capacity can support what they run. If virtual storage is not discussed in the main article, there's nothing giving readers a clue what's meant when referring to what's in memory, because some of it might be in real storage and some might be swapped out to auxiliary storage.
Hagrinas ( talk) 01:31, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
No mention of this primitive storage device, as used by HP-65, etc. I remember spending longer convincing my boss that it worked than I did programming it! SombreGreenbul ( talk) 16:17, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
Does any system built in the past 20 years use CRC in storage? I would be interested in -- and surprised by -- any examples. (Ideally, examples in the form of a reliable source WP:RS that we could use as citations in this article).
Recently, I changed the sentence that previously said "The cyclic redundancy check (CRC) method is typically used in storage for error detection and correction."
That edit was reverted with the comment "CRC was used and probably still used in storage".
Really?
My understanding is that, while a typical CRC is excellent for detecting errors and widely used in communication, CRC is useless for correcting errors in storage.
The current hard drive and random-access memory and ECC memory articles never mention "CRC". Instead, the hard drive article mentions "Reed–Solomon error correction" and "low-density parity-check codes", which (unlike CRC) correct bit errors. Likewise, the ECC memory article instead mentions "SECDED Hamming code" and "triple modular redundancy", which (unlike CRC) correct bit errors.
I propose that we begin the sentence "... method is typically used in storage for error detection and correction." with some method that actually is commonly used in storage for error detection and correction. -- DavidCary ( talk) 05:08, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
Article needs to be brought up-to-date. Secondary data storage is no longer just traditional HDD-based, that is spinning disks. There are now SSD, SSHD and OSD options. Obviously, solid-state-based date storage devices do not have seek-time latency. Should also mention object-based storage ( OSD) as a next-generation data storage architecture, particularly for unstructured data, such as images and video, linked with the rise of companies such as Facebook and YouTube. 66.155.23.67 ( talk) — Preceding undated comment added 12:16, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
I didn't see mention of cloud data storage i this article. Did I miss something? 70.247.162.60 ( talk) 15:24, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
(Copied from tom94022 talk page)
This is authoritative referenced info. Where should this go? This shouldn't be deleted.
Researchers at University of Southampton discovered a way to store 360 terabytes of data on a quarter sized disc for billions of years preserving humans' learned information. The scientists use a sophisticated laser to encode the information into minuscule formations, known as nanostructures, inside fused quartz. The structures alter the way light travels through the glass, allowing the data to be read by special optical devices. [1] -- Wyn.junior ( talk) 18:01, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
Since now GPUs are also becoming widely used, should we use processor as a general term (to refer to both CPU and GPU) instead of CPU alone? Previously CPU alone was synonymous for processor, but it is no longer true. -- Bhattasamuel ( talk) 12:51, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
I did not expect this gem hidden inside trivial Computer_data_storage#Hierarchy_of_storage.
This page is huge and most of the statement are historical/trivial. Please don't merge articles about professional terminology with historic articles about Punched cards. It should be stated at History of computer data storage, not at Computer data storage (or Memory hierarchy). Ushkin N ( talk) 21:16, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
Data deduplication, Data proliferation can be used at any level.
Yes there in-memory deduplication.
There so many unsourced inaccuracies in this article, that I'm simply using Memory hierarchy. Ushkin N ( talk) 03:47, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
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The article now is mostly physical: speed of access, energy use, hierarchy, etc. There needs to be something about the business end: concentration and competition of manufacturers, buying storage hardware vs. renting online storage, license and privacy restrictions, etc. Let me know if there is another article which gives an overview of the business end. If not, I could start adding a section here, and if it gets big it could then become a separate article.
For example Western Digital and Seagate each has about 40% of the hard drive market; Toshiba has most of the rest, and the total is declining. The market for solid state drives is rising. The biggest flash memory manufacturers are Samsung, Toshiba and Sandisk (Western Digital).
Licenses from different companies have different pitfalls:
There are articles on very specific storage businesses, such as Comparison of file hosting services and Comparison of online backup services, so maybe there's a general article on the computer storage business already. Numbersinstitute ( talk) 19:27, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
Searching for " overprovisioning" currently leads to a disambiguous page, which has a link to this article. However, this article currently doesn't mention overprovisioning. Should "overprovisioning" be added to this article, or should it be a separate article? I think there is enough information about "overprovisioning" for creating a dedicated article about it. The article can be named "Overprovisioning (computer data storage)". The following is a list of some items that we can include:
Please feel free to contribute! Somerandomuser ( talk) 16:04, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
The article seems to assume that primary storage is volatile, and delay lines certainly were. However, the 1950s and 1960s were dominated by nonvolatile primary storage, e.g., core memory, magnetic drum, magnetic rod, magnetic thin film.
Devices such magnetic tape drives served the role of secondary storage on early machines without disk storage, but on machines with disks they served a role closer to tertiary storage, although usually without an automatic tape library.
The 1960s and 1970s had several technologies that, while slower than disks, were faster than the 5–60 seconds in the description of tertiary storage. These included
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul ( talk) 14:48, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
Generally, the fast volatile technologies (which lose data when off power) are referred to as "memory", while slower persistent technologies are referred to as "storage". Generally, the fast volatile technologies (which lose data when off power) are referred to as "memory", while slower persistent technologies are referred to as "storage".In the 1950s through early 1970s, faster persistent technologies were referred to as both memory and storage, depending on the vendor and sometimes the device.
Today, fast volatile technologies (which lose data when off power) are typically used as "memory", while slower persistent technologies are used as "storage".
References
Should the article mention SD cards, or have they been supplanted by USB thumb drives? Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul ( talk) 13:23, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
@
Tom94022: I changed In contemporary usage, memory is usually
semiconductor memory storage read-write
random-access memory, typically
DRAM
to In contemporary usage, memory is usually
semiconductor read-write
random-access memory, typically
DRAM
to eliminate redundant use of the word memory.
Tom94022 then changed it to In contemporary usage, memory is usually fast but temporary
semiconductor
read-write memory, typically
DRAM
, which introduced adjacent links.
Can somebody come up with wording that is clear, concise and complies with wiki guidelines on adjacent links? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul ( talk) 20:52, 16 January 2024 (UTC)