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It seems to me that Martin Luther rejected Maccabees, precisely because he believed that the church on earth could not affect the condition of people who had died. Therefore, no indulgences were necessary.
Protestants believing in a similiar manner, therefore, confess to a belief in "the communion of saints," (Nicean Creed) but it doesn't mean much (is meaningless) since we cannot pray to saints for intercession, nor can we affect their existence.
While the belief of Catholics is presented, the article does not present the belief of (non-catholic) Protestants. Or does the article present the belief by not saying anything? Student7 03:28, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was moved. -- BDD ( talk) 17:33, 27 February 2013 (UTC) ( non-admin closure)
Communion of Saints → Communion of saints – "Saints" is not a proper noun, see Saint and WP:NCCAPS. JFH ( talk) 02:21, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
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Wikipedia's policy on article titles.But How? Isn't this a complete contradiction in terms? Is there something to read on this? Ioan.Church ( talk) 12:00, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
These two statements smack of Jehovah's witness doctrine [1](in the reference hover over it-1 254) but are not clearly put forth as such: the 144,000 sealed in the book of Revelations, as distinct from the countless multitude from every nation, tribe, people and language who attain salvation. As such I wonder if they have any place here as the tone of this writing is more didactic than encyclopedic.
The following is a quote from the official Jehovah's Witness website: [2]
The vision given to the apostle John, as recorded in Revelation, harmonizes with this when, after showing John the 144,000 “sealed” ones, it turns his eyes to “a great crowd, which no man was able to number.” These are shown as having “washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb,” indicating faith in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ the Lamb of God. (Re 7:9, 14) They are therefore given favorable recognition, “standing before [God’s] throne,” but are not those whom God selects to be the “sealed” 144,000. As to this “great crowd,” the vision goes on to point out that they serve God day and night and will be protected and will be cared for by him.—Re 7:15-17.
Kellnerp ( talk) 11:45, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
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The quoted text by Luther doesn't conform to current German usage. "Gemeine" is the indefinite plural form of "Gemeiner" (commoner). The parish community is "Gemeinde". I don't have the actual quote at hand, though. Jorganos ( talk) 09:37, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
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It seems to me that Martin Luther rejected Maccabees, precisely because he believed that the church on earth could not affect the condition of people who had died. Therefore, no indulgences were necessary.
Protestants believing in a similiar manner, therefore, confess to a belief in "the communion of saints," (Nicean Creed) but it doesn't mean much (is meaningless) since we cannot pray to saints for intercession, nor can we affect their existence.
While the belief of Catholics is presented, the article does not present the belief of (non-catholic) Protestants. Or does the article present the belief by not saying anything? Student7 03:28, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was moved. -- BDD ( talk) 17:33, 27 February 2013 (UTC) ( non-admin closure)
Communion of Saints → Communion of saints – "Saints" is not a proper noun, see Saint and WP:NCCAPS. JFH ( talk) 02:21, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's policy on article titles.But How? Isn't this a complete contradiction in terms? Is there something to read on this? Ioan.Church ( talk) 12:00, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
These two statements smack of Jehovah's witness doctrine [1](in the reference hover over it-1 254) but are not clearly put forth as such: the 144,000 sealed in the book of Revelations, as distinct from the countless multitude from every nation, tribe, people and language who attain salvation. As such I wonder if they have any place here as the tone of this writing is more didactic than encyclopedic.
The following is a quote from the official Jehovah's Witness website: [2]
The vision given to the apostle John, as recorded in Revelation, harmonizes with this when, after showing John the 144,000 “sealed” ones, it turns his eyes to “a great crowd, which no man was able to number.” These are shown as having “washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb,” indicating faith in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ the Lamb of God. (Re 7:9, 14) They are therefore given favorable recognition, “standing before [God’s] throne,” but are not those whom God selects to be the “sealed” 144,000. As to this “great crowd,” the vision goes on to point out that they serve God day and night and will be protected and will be cared for by him.—Re 7:15-17.
Kellnerp ( talk) 11:45, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
References
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The quoted text by Luther doesn't conform to current German usage. "Gemeine" is the indefinite plural form of "Gemeiner" (commoner). The parish community is "Gemeinde". I don't have the actual quote at hand, though. Jorganos ( talk) 09:37, 11 August 2018 (UTC)