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Pax to ALoan, but I done the deed. All my loose ends have been tidied up by Bishonen, and it's now a smooth read, a good tale, and a manageable and scholarly summary of a man famous and infamous. Geogre 02:40, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Wow - how can an article of this undoubted quality not be featured? It should be on WP:FAC instantly!
My only comment is, what about Brighton Rock and You are X and I claim my £5. -- ALoan (Talk) 23:08, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Just a note on FAC status. I think the idea has always been for this to become an FA, but Bishonen and I are both still doing work. There is one major problem with the article. We've gotten the research in, and the material is there, but there is a substantial disjunction, both stylistic and substantive, between the biographical and Dunce sections. As one reviewer said, it appears that the amount and level of detail increases when it gets to the dunce material. I have undertaken to smoothe it to some degree. When the article was being constructed, the idea was to put in everything, then to weed out later. The weeding has been delayed by various things, but it's underway now. Geogre 13:49, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Shoot, not my toes, anyway. I appreciate the information on the Graham Greene. I didn't know that. For my part, this is a good article that's just a little too sloppy at this point to be featured, but I'm just the Dunce guy (least ways I'm getting to be an expert on dunces). Geogre 15:51, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
This is an excellent article, wonders have been worked but I'm not sure about this claim that Cibber was the first actor-manager. Surely the same thing could be said about
Richard Burbage (incidentally a rotten article) and even more convincingly
Thomas Betterton, who gave Cibber his first big break. --
Mr impossible 19:03, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
He wrote some plays for performance by his own company at Drury Lane, and adapted many more from various sources, receiving frequent criticism for insensitive butchery of "hapless Shakespeare, and crucify'd Molière" (Alexander Pope).
It would be helpful for the article to note how his last name is pronounced. TotoBaggins
As the main contributor, I appreciate all improvements, and it's great that fresh eyes are reading and editing the article today, but it may be a little backwards to make drastic changes to the Lead before/without reading the rest, as the Lead is a summary of the article. Sorry, but it doesn't make any sense to telescope Cibber's brash personality and his laureateship into one sentence in the Lead, stating that the former gained him the latter... sheesh. Or to say that two of his more tasteless comedies are interesting documents. Those are considered his two best comedies, as the article explains further down. Bishonen | talk 11:13, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
Hey Bish!
After the discussion that such a topic has generated on Shakespeare, i'm almost loathe to ask here, but my curiosity isn't satisfied. In searching for something over the weekend, I stumbled across the fact that evidently Mr. Cibber has been included in the Gay Literary Canon. I noted that your article says nothing on the subject (besides the fact that he was married and had children, which, as we all know, means nothing) but do you have any clue as to why he might be included? I'm praying that I don't receive a visit from Bishzilla for asking. :-) *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 18:09, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Suggestion: It is likely that Cibber is included in the 'Gay Literary Canon' on account of his daughter Charlotte Charke, who lived for a significant part of her life as 'Charles Brown' or 'Master Brown'. In addition to her complex sexual and gender identity, her propensity to autobiography i.e. A Narrative of the Life of Mrs Charlotte Charke &c, which was, it seems, intended to repair their estrangement might connect him with her lifestyle. Equally, Cibber's own significant role in the development in authorial and acting terms of the fop in literature, would legitimately place him within the realms of gender and sexuality studies. Is there not a constant question around the actual sexual interest / capacity of Sir Novelty Fashion / Lord Foppington.
In brief, I can find no suggestion that Cibber himself exhibited any 'gay' behaviour (no he is not mentioned in Rictor Norton) the association would be more familial and for the content of his work.
According to poetsgraves.co uk, ( http://www.poetsgraves.co.uk/List%20of%20other%20Poets.htm) Colley Cibber was buried in either: The Danish Church, Wellclose Square, Shadwell, London. (Demolished 1870) Or: in Grosvenor Chapel, Mayfair, London, England. Ogg 19:37, 28 August 2007 (UTC) According to this website ( http://www.doubleo.fsnet.co.uk/bgstgeorgeeast.htm) the Danish Church had been designed by Caius Gabriel Cibber (1630-1700), father of the actor/ dramatist. Ogg 19:41, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Cibber seems to have an unusually high number of permutations of his birth and death dates on the web. Birth is sometimes given as 11 June (= 11/6), sometimes 6 November (= 6/11). Death is sometimes given as 12 November (= 12/11), sometimes 11 December (= 11/12). I've found examples of all 4 possible matching pairs. Given that confusion, are we absolutely certain it's 11 June-12 November, not 6 November-11 December? -- JackofOz ( talk) 10:59, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Many blatant errors exist on this page:
Two of the most obvious: subtitle of Love's Last Shift is not "Virtue Rewarded" but "The Fool in Fashion"
And, the article says that Love's Last Shift was never performed after the 1690s unlike its sequel, Vanbrugh's The Relapse -- that's wrong. It was performed through out the eighteenth century. Check The London Stage, A calendar of plays 1660-1800 for details about performances.
Several statements in the dispute between Pope / the other Scribblerus members and Cibber strike me as contravening the NPOV.
"The greatest poet of the age" is not encyclopaedic. Therefore should be removed, some qualification or reference would be necessary to meet expected standards.
Likewise '...easily got the laughers on his side", quite apart from being quite oddly expressed, needs to be supported by reference or removed.
This section seems to have been the subject of dispute without resolution for sometime, therefore I think it would now be fair for some judicious editing to take place to bring it back to a position of neutrality and compliance with guidance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Assiduosity14 ( talk • contribs) 11:58, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
Because the pronunciation is disputed (and no reliable source is cited), I have removed it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.186.90.87 ( talk) 16:55, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Colley Cibber article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | Colley Cibber is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | ||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on October 18, 2005. | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on December 11, 2017. | ||||||||||||
Current status: Featured article |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
Pax to ALoan, but I done the deed. All my loose ends have been tidied up by Bishonen, and it's now a smooth read, a good tale, and a manageable and scholarly summary of a man famous and infamous. Geogre 02:40, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Wow - how can an article of this undoubted quality not be featured? It should be on WP:FAC instantly!
My only comment is, what about Brighton Rock and You are X and I claim my £5. -- ALoan (Talk) 23:08, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Just a note on FAC status. I think the idea has always been for this to become an FA, but Bishonen and I are both still doing work. There is one major problem with the article. We've gotten the research in, and the material is there, but there is a substantial disjunction, both stylistic and substantive, between the biographical and Dunce sections. As one reviewer said, it appears that the amount and level of detail increases when it gets to the dunce material. I have undertaken to smoothe it to some degree. When the article was being constructed, the idea was to put in everything, then to weed out later. The weeding has been delayed by various things, but it's underway now. Geogre 13:49, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Shoot, not my toes, anyway. I appreciate the information on the Graham Greene. I didn't know that. For my part, this is a good article that's just a little too sloppy at this point to be featured, but I'm just the Dunce guy (least ways I'm getting to be an expert on dunces). Geogre 15:51, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
This is an excellent article, wonders have been worked but I'm not sure about this claim that Cibber was the first actor-manager. Surely the same thing could be said about
Richard Burbage (incidentally a rotten article) and even more convincingly
Thomas Betterton, who gave Cibber his first big break. --
Mr impossible 19:03, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
He wrote some plays for performance by his own company at Drury Lane, and adapted many more from various sources, receiving frequent criticism for insensitive butchery of "hapless Shakespeare, and crucify'd Molière" (Alexander Pope).
It would be helpful for the article to note how his last name is pronounced. TotoBaggins
As the main contributor, I appreciate all improvements, and it's great that fresh eyes are reading and editing the article today, but it may be a little backwards to make drastic changes to the Lead before/without reading the rest, as the Lead is a summary of the article. Sorry, but it doesn't make any sense to telescope Cibber's brash personality and his laureateship into one sentence in the Lead, stating that the former gained him the latter... sheesh. Or to say that two of his more tasteless comedies are interesting documents. Those are considered his two best comedies, as the article explains further down. Bishonen | talk 11:13, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
Hey Bish!
After the discussion that such a topic has generated on Shakespeare, i'm almost loathe to ask here, but my curiosity isn't satisfied. In searching for something over the weekend, I stumbled across the fact that evidently Mr. Cibber has been included in the Gay Literary Canon. I noted that your article says nothing on the subject (besides the fact that he was married and had children, which, as we all know, means nothing) but do you have any clue as to why he might be included? I'm praying that I don't receive a visit from Bishzilla for asking. :-) *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 18:09, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Suggestion: It is likely that Cibber is included in the 'Gay Literary Canon' on account of his daughter Charlotte Charke, who lived for a significant part of her life as 'Charles Brown' or 'Master Brown'. In addition to her complex sexual and gender identity, her propensity to autobiography i.e. A Narrative of the Life of Mrs Charlotte Charke &c, which was, it seems, intended to repair their estrangement might connect him with her lifestyle. Equally, Cibber's own significant role in the development in authorial and acting terms of the fop in literature, would legitimately place him within the realms of gender and sexuality studies. Is there not a constant question around the actual sexual interest / capacity of Sir Novelty Fashion / Lord Foppington.
In brief, I can find no suggestion that Cibber himself exhibited any 'gay' behaviour (no he is not mentioned in Rictor Norton) the association would be more familial and for the content of his work.
According to poetsgraves.co uk, ( http://www.poetsgraves.co.uk/List%20of%20other%20Poets.htm) Colley Cibber was buried in either: The Danish Church, Wellclose Square, Shadwell, London. (Demolished 1870) Or: in Grosvenor Chapel, Mayfair, London, England. Ogg 19:37, 28 August 2007 (UTC) According to this website ( http://www.doubleo.fsnet.co.uk/bgstgeorgeeast.htm) the Danish Church had been designed by Caius Gabriel Cibber (1630-1700), father of the actor/ dramatist. Ogg 19:41, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Cibber seems to have an unusually high number of permutations of his birth and death dates on the web. Birth is sometimes given as 11 June (= 11/6), sometimes 6 November (= 6/11). Death is sometimes given as 12 November (= 12/11), sometimes 11 December (= 11/12). I've found examples of all 4 possible matching pairs. Given that confusion, are we absolutely certain it's 11 June-12 November, not 6 November-11 December? -- JackofOz ( talk) 10:59, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Many blatant errors exist on this page:
Two of the most obvious: subtitle of Love's Last Shift is not "Virtue Rewarded" but "The Fool in Fashion"
And, the article says that Love's Last Shift was never performed after the 1690s unlike its sequel, Vanbrugh's The Relapse -- that's wrong. It was performed through out the eighteenth century. Check The London Stage, A calendar of plays 1660-1800 for details about performances.
Several statements in the dispute between Pope / the other Scribblerus members and Cibber strike me as contravening the NPOV.
"The greatest poet of the age" is not encyclopaedic. Therefore should be removed, some qualification or reference would be necessary to meet expected standards.
Likewise '...easily got the laughers on his side", quite apart from being quite oddly expressed, needs to be supported by reference or removed.
This section seems to have been the subject of dispute without resolution for sometime, therefore I think it would now be fair for some judicious editing to take place to bring it back to a position of neutrality and compliance with guidance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Assiduosity14 ( talk • contribs) 11:58, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
Because the pronunciation is disputed (and no reliable source is cited), I have removed it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.186.90.87 ( talk) 16:55, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Colley Cibber. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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