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This article is incredibly biased and reads like an anti-cohabitation pamphlet. Corrolation is not causation, yet this article constantly hits on how people in sexual relationships who cohabit have a much higher instance of divorce. Yet it doesn't posit any reasons why, except for the cohabitation itself leading to divorce. I can think of one off the top of my head - people who do not live together in a sexual relationship before marrying are far more likely to be of a religious mindset where marriage is sacred and divorce is frowned upon. People who cohabit most likely view marriage as less sacred, therefore divorce is more common. The article doesnt even remotely touch on this. Reading through the comments, I see over 10 years of similar complaints. If no one objects I will be tagging this article biased pov. Also, why is te talk page tagged with this article of importance to "Latter Day Saints"? All the other tags make sense but that one. I'm seeing a potential reason for the biased tone in that tag. 2601:601:D00:C060:3901:F4D2:E5EE:827B ( talk) 08:32, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
This arrticle appears to be narrow in scope: cohabitation does not necessarily connote a sexual relationship. For example, family members cohabitate. This needs to be rectified.
Furthermore, why it is that the first-sentence definition designates cohabitation as a communal living arrangement not condoned by governmental or religious elements? No official statute exists in the state of California prohibiting the cohabitation of heterosexual individuals, nor, I believe, that of individuas of any sexual/gender orientation. What's more, many religious sects do allow pre-marital cohabitation or at least don't explicitly forbid it. So, one could postualate, if a heterosexual couple, whose religious group did not prohibit pre-marital cohabitation, lived together in California, one would have an invalidating example of cohabitation without prohibition by governmental or religious elements. The only true counterargument is that there are some governments and some religions that don't condone premarital cohabitation, and, consequently, cohabiting couples live together inviolation of these laws. However, blanket applicaiton of the laws of governmetns and religions to individuals not existing under those entities (California Couple) is unacceptable as it implies a single government or religion is corret. It also violates the natural right of individuals to choose their political and religious affilitation and to follow their respective laws. I feel strongly that the -"exists without legal or religious sanction."- portion of the opening sentence should be removed or at least preceeded with "that may" so as not to be an absolute. I am not advocating that the very relevant controversy surrounding pre-marital cohabitation not be adressed in the artical, merely that an incorrect statement asserting the universal prohibition of cohabitation by religion and/or governmetn be removed from the opening sentence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.245.62.245 ( talk) 23:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC) I will be compelled to change it myself soon, though I encourage any who may have a supported opposition to this revision to respond with there contrary evidence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.245.62.245 ( talk) 23:53, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
The section on opposition to cohabitation is biased in that it shows both sides of the argument as completely equal. I think it should be noted that the majority of research findings within the last ten years support the case for a much higher divorce rate among couples who cohabitated prior to marriage. The line "advocates, in turn, cite research that either disproves these claims or indicates that the statistical differences are due to other factors than the fact of cohabitation itself" makes it seem as though even researchers are torn about the issue, when among academia, supporters of cohabitation as a strength to marriage are among the minority.
20:23, 26 August 2008 (UTC)~
For someone who slams the claims of others as unsupported and bias, you seem to provide relativley little concrete evidence of your own. Furthermore, the claim you made asserting the majority status of experts in opposition to cohabitation would, to be sufficiently supported, require all said experts to study the subject suficiently (they should have already done this to be concidered experts) so that their opinions were supported by scientific evidence, then a massive survay of these scientists to determine the prevalence and degree of their impression on the matter. While I am sure that their has been much study of cohabitation and its effects, I can also assure you that no holistic survay of cohabitation experts has ever been conducted. I guess the point I am trying to make is that you, yourself are making unsupportable claims while hypocritically criticizing others for doing just that. Whats more, I find it inspirationally incredible that fellow editors have managed to, as you so eloquently put it, "show both sides of the argument as completely equal" though it seems you don't share my sentiment. Your opposition, undersupported as it is, is based on the realitive prevalence of the respective subjects, contending that more popular opinons should be giving more weight and, from the sound of it, support in Wikipedia. To this I respond that Wikipedia is a encyclopedia, a compilaiton of human knowledge that does not advocate any ideology above another. All articles should provide enough information so that their subject may be understood and enough references so that that information may be verified and further explored by all. If something exists then it brobably matters and if someting matters then it probaly deserves a balanced wikipedia article about it. Any controversies and opposing viewpoints should be treated as equals regardless of differences in support or popularity as all viewpoints are integral parts of an issue that can be niether more or less important than eny other (though I will concede that popularity statistics do have a place in every controversy article). I ask that you not advocate the presentation of a particular viewpoint as superior to another on wikipedia whatever the reason, but rather that you join us in the struggle to make wikipedia as balanced and universal as possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.245.62.245 ( talk) 00:40, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
20:23, 26 August 2008 (UTC)~
I do agree with much of what you have said. I think it's important to present every side of an issue clearly and let the reader decide how they interpret it. And you are right, that there is no mass poll of experts available. All I'm saying is that among what has already been published in peer-reviewed journals, studies showing cohabitation as a plus are few compared to those that suggest negative effects. I base my comments on search results for "cohabitation" on EBSCO's online journals database. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.17.172.174 ( talk) 22:50, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
This is a pov anti-cohabitation essay, not an encyclopedia article. Unless it is fixed soon, it will have to be deleted. -- Zantastik talk 23:03, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
More importantly than the pov, I think this article needs broadening beyond the US. When this article moves from the general concept of cohabitation into specifics, it is always about the US ("Cohabitation has been dramatically on the rise in the United States within the last few decades", "about two-fifths of Americans", "according to the U.S. Census Bureau", etc etc etc). Furthermore, this article reeks very much of original research, particularly in the "Gender differences" and "Risks" sections. In those sections, the OR is close to pov. The references are all American references. I'll see if I can find some European data on cohabitation to add to the article. Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 02:19, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Just because an article, essay, or news story doesn't support your subjective views doesn't make it wrong. How long you have personally cohabitated with a person and never had an issue is irrelevant. Most of the scientific evidence has proven cohabitation as problematic. -- Supernix ( talk) 15:39, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
According to this, the states with laws against cohabitation are: North Carolina, Virginia, West Virginia, Florida, Michigan, Mississippi and North Dakota.
This article really needs NPOVing. It once again has been turned into anti-cohabitation propaganda.
I removed N. Dakota given recent events, and added Virginia and N. Carolina per the article I read, and left in Idaho though it's not mentioned. Feel free to clarify, this is just a quick change Mbelrose 21:44, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
http://www.newsobserver.com/662/story/462833.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.53.191.246 ( talk) 02:15, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
According to this only 4 states (VA, FL, MS, MI) still have anti-cohabitation laws. The citation in the current article is over 10 years old. This needs to be updated pretty badly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.48.230.72 ( talk) 20:02, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
According to the article, cohabitation "is defined as an emotional, physical, and intellectually intimate heterosexual relationship which includes a common living place and which exists without the benefit of legal, cultural, or religious sanction." I have removed the word "heterosexual", since cohabitation is not intrinsically heterosexual: Homosexuals and bisexuals can cohabitate as well, provided the relevant laws allow them to do so. The obstruction to cohabitation in cases where that is not allowed is legal/moral/political. It is related to a specific view on social preferences, and not so much to the concept of cohabitation itself. Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 22:12, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
This article has been reverted to the version of December 7th, in order to deal with the pov and OR textdump. If any non-or, non-pov edits have been reverted with it, I would like to ask you to reinstate them into the article if and where necessary. Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 20:12, 16 January 2006 (UTC)j
Generally speaking, more conservative people who would not cohabit would also not entertain the idea of divorce. Yet, people with more liberal views would be more inclined to cohabit, as well as divorce more easily.
(Breathe in... breathe out...) Okay, glad we're past that. I'll assume good faith here, which isn't hard to do in this situation. First, about me countering your revert... I believe you're an administrator, so you definitely should know this anyways, but just to remind you... on Wikipedia, we generally do not unilaterally revert a month's worth of good-faith editing without discussing it on the talk page. That tends to make people who have worked on the page angry. Of course I would revert it! Anyone would! This doesn't mean that I supported having the "heterosexual" bit in. Silly me--when I voiced my assent to removing "heterosexual", I didn't realize that I was giving you full license to wipe out a month's worth of edits!
(I hope it doesn't sound like I'm angry here. I'm not--I'm just a little unclear on your methodology here.)
On the tags... When you first put the tags on, I deleted the ones that pointed the reader to the talk page for a discussion, for the simple reason that there WAS no discussion! I'm always trying to think, "what would the reader think in this situation?" It would probably confuse most of them, I believe. When I browse Wikipedia, if I find a cleanup tag (or especially a POV tab!) on any random page with no corresponding discussion on the talk page, I just remove it on sight. That's what I did here.
Now that we've got a discussion corresponding to the tags, I'm not SO against them being there... but look at what you've done! Yes, every sentence (basically) SHOULD be referenced as per Wikipedia policy... but out of the 920,000+ articles on Wikipedia, I guarantee you that at least 900,000 of them are not referenced nearly as well as this one was (see Jet d'Eau, Bishop O'Dowd High School, North_London_Line...). Just press the "random article" button (which is how I found those articles). What it looks like to me is that you're SERIOUSLY trying to violate WP:POINT.
So... I'm not entering into a revert war (that's what I'm telling myself)... but the version you're proposing for the time being is UGLY. So I'm removing your "citation needed" things. I hope you understand. (Summing up: The tags are removed because I believe you're violating WP:POINT and you are applying an unfair standard to this article, as the references at the bottom are more than what would be expected on a normal Wikipedia page.) Matt Yeager 00:49, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
I have placed the OR tag on the top of the article because the article consists of a lot of interpretations, assumptions, projections and expectations. This stems from a major overhaul to this article, performed on December 7th, 2005 ( [1]). An anonymous user ( 152.163.100.202 ( talk · contribs)) added an unwikified textdump to the article. Considering the wording, the textdump is most likely a student's essay or thesis. The easiest way out of this is simply removing all that remains of this textdump. There are two reasons why I believe this is not an option. Firstly, it has been tried by User:Acjelen, which was almost immediately reverted by User:Matt Yeager. Reremoving would only lead to a revert war, which is not in wikipedia's interest. Secondly, the references section provides some credible and reliable sources that should not be overlooked and should be incorporated into the article. Using them properly and encyclopedically would imo add to the article. Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 14:20, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
How does cohabitation differ from domestic partnership? Nurg 11:24, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
There is a major misunderstanding of Jesus' conversation with the Samaritan woman in this piece. Jesus is cited as meaning the exact opposite of what he means. The purpose of Jesus' pointing out the Samaritan woman's marital situation(having 5 husbands and now living with another man) is precisely to point out the extremely unacceptable position she is in. It is a not a offhand comment on his part that shows no sign of disgust or condemnation! Anyone who knows anything about Palestinian historiography knows that poligamy and cohabitation were completely unacceptable in Jewish society. --Geminatea(0:46 EST July 13,2006)
The statement: "Such groups sometimes call cohabitation "living in sin", but this phrase is perhaps misleading as sin is not merely a matter of sexual behaviour. " seems to be logically confused. The phrase "living in sin" in no way implies that we are dealing "merely with sexual behavior." Because Christians believe cohabitation (an instance of sexual behavior outside of a Godly context) is sinful, they occasionally use the term "living in sin." There is no implication that this term referes merely to sexual bahavior. It deals with sexual bahavior within a specific context. -- Geminatea 1:02, 13 July 2006 (EST)
Among "Several common reasons that lead couples to decide to live together" not wanting to participate in marriage as the institution considered inacceptable (on the grounds of its historical burden of institutional violence over women, for example) or "just" bad and/or not neccessary, is not mentioned. I am aware of the (justified) absence of an ambition to give a complete description of cohabitation (indicated by the word "include"), but i feel this should not be omitted. Pappil 23:28, 18 December 2006 (UTC)lappip
From the Description: "In 2005, the U.S. Census Bureau reported 4.85 million cohabiting couples, up more than 1,000 percent from 1960, when there were 439,000 such couples. A 2000 study found that more than half of newlyweds lived together, at least briefly, before walking down the aisle."
A few comments about this:
1. The 1,000 percent should be removed -- I think a general rule of thumb is that if the percent is more than 100, then you need to reconsider expressing whatever it is as a percent (and for this case in particular, 4.85 million is 11 times as much as 439,000).
2. I think the stats are trying to show that there is a wider acceptance of cohabitation in the United States. However, saying that the raw number of cohabitating couples is 11 times more in 2000 than in 1960 does not necessarily show this. For instance, if the total US population is 11 times more in 2000 than in 1960, then really the number of cohabitating couples has remained the same. I'm not in any way suggesting that this is the case, I'm just illustrating that these raw numbers may suggest one conclusion, but the truth may be completely different.
3. These stats should be footnoted so that if anyone wants more detail, they can get it from the source (for instance, one might be curious as to the methodology for collecting and tabulating the data)
4. The stat that begins with "A 2000 study..." needs to be cited. I am very suspicious of any stat that starts with "A study from the year...", gives an interesting tidbit, and nothing else.
My inclination is to remove the paragraph completely until those issues are worked out. Thejacobian 22:24, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm not great at wikis, could someone look at this line?
"In Mexico, 18.7% of couples were cohabiting as of 2020"
Year 2020? -- 76.232.1.120 ( talk) 19:26, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/5840263/Couples-who-live-together-before-marriage-more-likely-to-get-divorced.html See page 393 of Intimate Relationships by Miller & Perlman Couples who start living together after they become engaged, and who cohabit for a shorter period of time do not divorce more frequently than do those who marry without living together. Stafford et al 2004. However, Casual cohabitation seems to lead to less respect for the institution of marriage, less favourable expectations and greater willingness to divorce McGinnis 2003. These are studies vs popular press surveys. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.93.112.22 ( talk) 00:29, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
What exactly is meant by "traditionally" in this opposition paragraph? The whole reason that common-law marriage exists is because so many people, over so many centuries, joined households without going through a specific religious or legal "now we are married" step. You just moved in, and announced to your friends that you considered yourself (as good as) married now. If you were poor, your equally poor neighbors weren't going to turn up their noses at you because you couldn't pay the fees for an official marriage license.
If we're going to keep this language, we need a good historical source for it. Otherwise, perhaps we could be a little less vague, and name a particular time and place when cohabiting was always considered poor form. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 20:21, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
While the content of the support section as it stands may be factual, it gives undue weight to a minority view. The father's and men's rights communities are active on the internet and in particular on sites like WP and forums like Reddit and Digg, but as a general cross-section of the population the truth is that most people are relatively unaware of what these communities believe or who they are. This isn't a criticism of their beliefs, mind -- lots of people with minority viewpoints, particular as concern civil rights and equality, have been vindicated as society becomes more progressive. The problem rather is that this is the *only* view given in the support section, and in that context it's not notable. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the majority of people who support cohabitation (and that would be most young people in the developed world these days) do not do so because of concern about men's rights. So that's the source of the undue complaint.
The other problem is OR. The section reads like it was written by a member of the men's rights or father's rights groups, who is detailing what he has found anecdotally to be the case in his own community. This is an example of a primary source, and WP doesn't use primary sources, we catalog secondary sources. What the editor who wrote this is saying may well be true about his own community, but per WP policy we try instead to quote what other, third parties (such as journalists or whatever) are saying. This is essentially like a guy writing an article about his own band. Eniagrom ( talk) 18:48, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
Is there a reason why there is no mention of how cohabitation restrictions were imposed by the US Federal Government on the Utah Territory with the Edmunds Act and later, similar measures were required as conditions for Utah to become a US State? How about how the cohabitation laws were vigorously enforced there to punish Mormons participating in polygamy while the law was not enforced on non-polygamous relationships? How about the currently legal status of Murphy v. Ramsey ( 114 U.S. 15 ( 1885)) in the United States and the likelihood of it currently being considered constitutional if challenged. -- 208.81.184.4 ( talk) 21:31, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
I think the subsections "Negative effects" and "Positive effects" need to be change to state the facts, i.e. "Increases divorce rates", "Decreases divorce rates". With the current headings it's impossible to tell who the effects are positive or negative for. Are they negative for cohabitators or the religious right? Are they positive for young cohabitators, old cohabitators, etc.
Perhaps a section called "Effects of cohabitation" with subsections on "divorce", "children", "money", and the like would serve the article better. Thoughts? -- Scochran4 ( talk) 01:24, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
This template might be better positioned at the top of the page, so other users are made aware that the article needs work. Then it might be more likely that citations are added. PurpleMousey ( talk) 19:00, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
Deleted. Entire section was cited by an editorial, opinion article on the New York Times. Section included non-objectively nor without sufficient data to conclude that females "think" are the basis of a cohabitation to an implied opinion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.43.51.210 ( talk) 17:03, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
Someone has added news articles mentioning peer-reviewed journal articles. I've added in more useful info with the papers the news articles cite, and info on the years that the surveys were run. The number of couples cohabiting in Western countries has changed significantly, along with statistics of divorce. Most people saying that couples are more likely to divorce are using data from before 1996, as noted in the recent surveys and journal articles I cite in the section. I've removed parts that were very POV and OR. Lots of the rest of the article, unfortunately, is conservative religious POV about perceptions of cohabiting couples, without data. Also lots of confusion between correlation and causation. -- Aronzak ( talk) 16:49, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
Removed this section: the psychpage source is very POV and has no peer reviewed source for the following claims that have been text dumped in:
On the whole, couples who cohabit are more likely to have a poorer financial picture because one partner is less likely to support the other partner financially. Statistically speaking, people who cohabit tend to live a shorter life because their partner are less likely to remind them about doctor's appointments or speak up about unhealthy behaviors or risks. Also unmarried men and women are more likely to commit a crime compared to married men and women.
(ref) Cohabitating and Domestic Partnership." PsychPage | …perspectives on psychology in daily life. N.p., n.d. Web. 21 Mar. 2012. Retrieved from http://www.psychpage.com/family/mod_couples_thx/cohabitation.html
If anyone has verifiable reliable sources for these claims, please add them with correctly cited references. -- Aronzak ( talk) 20:33, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
A lot of this page has inaccurate, POV, out of date figures, and conjecture and speculation from columns and opinion articles, lacking good sources. I've edited some sections to remove POV text and replace it with discussion of modern peer-reviewed research findings, more should be integrated from good quality sources such as these:
-- Aronzak ( talk) 20:56, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
This seems very POV, bordering on offensive. the cite: Murrow, Carrie; Lin Shi (2010). "The Influence of Cohabitation Purposes on Relationship Quality: An Examination in Dimensions". The American Journal of Family Therapy 38: 397–412. doi:10.1080/01/01926187.2010.513916.
Gives a bad DOI link and I think it should be removed as a source. If someone can find a link to the article with a working DOI they can add it back in later.
Cohabitation can be an alternative to marriage in situations where marriage is not able to happen for financial or other reasons, such as same-sex, some interracial or interreligious marriages. [1] Other reasons might include cohabitation as a way for polygamists or polyamorists to avoid breaking the law, a way to avoid the higher income taxes paid by some two-income married couples (in the United States), negative effects on pension payments (among older people), or seeing no need to marry. -- Aronzak ( talk) 12:19, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
References
The two statement under the "Reasons for Cohabitation" section contradict each other: "More than two-thirds of married couples in the US say that they lived together before getting married" and this sentence a few paragraphs down: "Today sixty percent of all marriages are preceded by a period of cohabitation" Reza789 ( talk) 09:50, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
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North American and European countries on the other hand, are expressly enumerated and have better coverage. I would like to make the Asian section similar in that regard. I can expand the part on the Philippines, as I am most familiar with that country and its laws. I encourage others to do the same with other Asian countries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Riverarvi ( talk • contribs) 19:28, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
Programs like TANF, SNAP, and Section 8 provide a financial disincentive to marriage. Why would this not be mentioned? Patrickferguson ( talk) 00:43, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
There needs to be more facts carrying this article. It seems to be lacking information, only noting the negative factors of cohabitation. There seems to be a lot of one-sided 'facts'. For example, children are more negatively affected with cohabitating parents than a single parent. There could be a lot of other factors mentioned. The same can be said for why cohabitation leads to higher divorce. Tmjimenez ( talk) 03:09, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 17 April 2023 and 17 July 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Emmalou72 ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Emmalou72 ( talk) 20:59, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
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This article is incredibly biased and reads like an anti-cohabitation pamphlet. Corrolation is not causation, yet this article constantly hits on how people in sexual relationships who cohabit have a much higher instance of divorce. Yet it doesn't posit any reasons why, except for the cohabitation itself leading to divorce. I can think of one off the top of my head - people who do not live together in a sexual relationship before marrying are far more likely to be of a religious mindset where marriage is sacred and divorce is frowned upon. People who cohabit most likely view marriage as less sacred, therefore divorce is more common. The article doesnt even remotely touch on this. Reading through the comments, I see over 10 years of similar complaints. If no one objects I will be tagging this article biased pov. Also, why is te talk page tagged with this article of importance to "Latter Day Saints"? All the other tags make sense but that one. I'm seeing a potential reason for the biased tone in that tag. 2601:601:D00:C060:3901:F4D2:E5EE:827B ( talk) 08:32, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
This arrticle appears to be narrow in scope: cohabitation does not necessarily connote a sexual relationship. For example, family members cohabitate. This needs to be rectified.
Furthermore, why it is that the first-sentence definition designates cohabitation as a communal living arrangement not condoned by governmental or religious elements? No official statute exists in the state of California prohibiting the cohabitation of heterosexual individuals, nor, I believe, that of individuas of any sexual/gender orientation. What's more, many religious sects do allow pre-marital cohabitation or at least don't explicitly forbid it. So, one could postualate, if a heterosexual couple, whose religious group did not prohibit pre-marital cohabitation, lived together in California, one would have an invalidating example of cohabitation without prohibition by governmental or religious elements. The only true counterargument is that there are some governments and some religions that don't condone premarital cohabitation, and, consequently, cohabiting couples live together inviolation of these laws. However, blanket applicaiton of the laws of governmetns and religions to individuals not existing under those entities (California Couple) is unacceptable as it implies a single government or religion is corret. It also violates the natural right of individuals to choose their political and religious affilitation and to follow their respective laws. I feel strongly that the -"exists without legal or religious sanction."- portion of the opening sentence should be removed or at least preceeded with "that may" so as not to be an absolute. I am not advocating that the very relevant controversy surrounding pre-marital cohabitation not be adressed in the artical, merely that an incorrect statement asserting the universal prohibition of cohabitation by religion and/or governmetn be removed from the opening sentence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.245.62.245 ( talk) 23:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC) I will be compelled to change it myself soon, though I encourage any who may have a supported opposition to this revision to respond with there contrary evidence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.245.62.245 ( talk) 23:53, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
The section on opposition to cohabitation is biased in that it shows both sides of the argument as completely equal. I think it should be noted that the majority of research findings within the last ten years support the case for a much higher divorce rate among couples who cohabitated prior to marriage. The line "advocates, in turn, cite research that either disproves these claims or indicates that the statistical differences are due to other factors than the fact of cohabitation itself" makes it seem as though even researchers are torn about the issue, when among academia, supporters of cohabitation as a strength to marriage are among the minority.
20:23, 26 August 2008 (UTC)~
For someone who slams the claims of others as unsupported and bias, you seem to provide relativley little concrete evidence of your own. Furthermore, the claim you made asserting the majority status of experts in opposition to cohabitation would, to be sufficiently supported, require all said experts to study the subject suficiently (they should have already done this to be concidered experts) so that their opinions were supported by scientific evidence, then a massive survay of these scientists to determine the prevalence and degree of their impression on the matter. While I am sure that their has been much study of cohabitation and its effects, I can also assure you that no holistic survay of cohabitation experts has ever been conducted. I guess the point I am trying to make is that you, yourself are making unsupportable claims while hypocritically criticizing others for doing just that. Whats more, I find it inspirationally incredible that fellow editors have managed to, as you so eloquently put it, "show both sides of the argument as completely equal" though it seems you don't share my sentiment. Your opposition, undersupported as it is, is based on the realitive prevalence of the respective subjects, contending that more popular opinons should be giving more weight and, from the sound of it, support in Wikipedia. To this I respond that Wikipedia is a encyclopedia, a compilaiton of human knowledge that does not advocate any ideology above another. All articles should provide enough information so that their subject may be understood and enough references so that that information may be verified and further explored by all. If something exists then it brobably matters and if someting matters then it probaly deserves a balanced wikipedia article about it. Any controversies and opposing viewpoints should be treated as equals regardless of differences in support or popularity as all viewpoints are integral parts of an issue that can be niether more or less important than eny other (though I will concede that popularity statistics do have a place in every controversy article). I ask that you not advocate the presentation of a particular viewpoint as superior to another on wikipedia whatever the reason, but rather that you join us in the struggle to make wikipedia as balanced and universal as possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.245.62.245 ( talk) 00:40, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
20:23, 26 August 2008 (UTC)~
I do agree with much of what you have said. I think it's important to present every side of an issue clearly and let the reader decide how they interpret it. And you are right, that there is no mass poll of experts available. All I'm saying is that among what has already been published in peer-reviewed journals, studies showing cohabitation as a plus are few compared to those that suggest negative effects. I base my comments on search results for "cohabitation" on EBSCO's online journals database. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.17.172.174 ( talk) 22:50, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
This is a pov anti-cohabitation essay, not an encyclopedia article. Unless it is fixed soon, it will have to be deleted. -- Zantastik talk 23:03, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
More importantly than the pov, I think this article needs broadening beyond the US. When this article moves from the general concept of cohabitation into specifics, it is always about the US ("Cohabitation has been dramatically on the rise in the United States within the last few decades", "about two-fifths of Americans", "according to the U.S. Census Bureau", etc etc etc). Furthermore, this article reeks very much of original research, particularly in the "Gender differences" and "Risks" sections. In those sections, the OR is close to pov. The references are all American references. I'll see if I can find some European data on cohabitation to add to the article. Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 02:19, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Just because an article, essay, or news story doesn't support your subjective views doesn't make it wrong. How long you have personally cohabitated with a person and never had an issue is irrelevant. Most of the scientific evidence has proven cohabitation as problematic. -- Supernix ( talk) 15:39, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
According to this, the states with laws against cohabitation are: North Carolina, Virginia, West Virginia, Florida, Michigan, Mississippi and North Dakota.
This article really needs NPOVing. It once again has been turned into anti-cohabitation propaganda.
I removed N. Dakota given recent events, and added Virginia and N. Carolina per the article I read, and left in Idaho though it's not mentioned. Feel free to clarify, this is just a quick change Mbelrose 21:44, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
http://www.newsobserver.com/662/story/462833.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.53.191.246 ( talk) 02:15, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
According to this only 4 states (VA, FL, MS, MI) still have anti-cohabitation laws. The citation in the current article is over 10 years old. This needs to be updated pretty badly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.48.230.72 ( talk) 20:02, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
According to the article, cohabitation "is defined as an emotional, physical, and intellectually intimate heterosexual relationship which includes a common living place and which exists without the benefit of legal, cultural, or religious sanction." I have removed the word "heterosexual", since cohabitation is not intrinsically heterosexual: Homosexuals and bisexuals can cohabitate as well, provided the relevant laws allow them to do so. The obstruction to cohabitation in cases where that is not allowed is legal/moral/political. It is related to a specific view on social preferences, and not so much to the concept of cohabitation itself. Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 22:12, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
This article has been reverted to the version of December 7th, in order to deal with the pov and OR textdump. If any non-or, non-pov edits have been reverted with it, I would like to ask you to reinstate them into the article if and where necessary. Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 20:12, 16 January 2006 (UTC)j
Generally speaking, more conservative people who would not cohabit would also not entertain the idea of divorce. Yet, people with more liberal views would be more inclined to cohabit, as well as divorce more easily.
(Breathe in... breathe out...) Okay, glad we're past that. I'll assume good faith here, which isn't hard to do in this situation. First, about me countering your revert... I believe you're an administrator, so you definitely should know this anyways, but just to remind you... on Wikipedia, we generally do not unilaterally revert a month's worth of good-faith editing without discussing it on the talk page. That tends to make people who have worked on the page angry. Of course I would revert it! Anyone would! This doesn't mean that I supported having the "heterosexual" bit in. Silly me--when I voiced my assent to removing "heterosexual", I didn't realize that I was giving you full license to wipe out a month's worth of edits!
(I hope it doesn't sound like I'm angry here. I'm not--I'm just a little unclear on your methodology here.)
On the tags... When you first put the tags on, I deleted the ones that pointed the reader to the talk page for a discussion, for the simple reason that there WAS no discussion! I'm always trying to think, "what would the reader think in this situation?" It would probably confuse most of them, I believe. When I browse Wikipedia, if I find a cleanup tag (or especially a POV tab!) on any random page with no corresponding discussion on the talk page, I just remove it on sight. That's what I did here.
Now that we've got a discussion corresponding to the tags, I'm not SO against them being there... but look at what you've done! Yes, every sentence (basically) SHOULD be referenced as per Wikipedia policy... but out of the 920,000+ articles on Wikipedia, I guarantee you that at least 900,000 of them are not referenced nearly as well as this one was (see Jet d'Eau, Bishop O'Dowd High School, North_London_Line...). Just press the "random article" button (which is how I found those articles). What it looks like to me is that you're SERIOUSLY trying to violate WP:POINT.
So... I'm not entering into a revert war (that's what I'm telling myself)... but the version you're proposing for the time being is UGLY. So I'm removing your "citation needed" things. I hope you understand. (Summing up: The tags are removed because I believe you're violating WP:POINT and you are applying an unfair standard to this article, as the references at the bottom are more than what would be expected on a normal Wikipedia page.) Matt Yeager 00:49, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
I have placed the OR tag on the top of the article because the article consists of a lot of interpretations, assumptions, projections and expectations. This stems from a major overhaul to this article, performed on December 7th, 2005 ( [1]). An anonymous user ( 152.163.100.202 ( talk · contribs)) added an unwikified textdump to the article. Considering the wording, the textdump is most likely a student's essay or thesis. The easiest way out of this is simply removing all that remains of this textdump. There are two reasons why I believe this is not an option. Firstly, it has been tried by User:Acjelen, which was almost immediately reverted by User:Matt Yeager. Reremoving would only lead to a revert war, which is not in wikipedia's interest. Secondly, the references section provides some credible and reliable sources that should not be overlooked and should be incorporated into the article. Using them properly and encyclopedically would imo add to the article. Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 14:20, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
How does cohabitation differ from domestic partnership? Nurg 11:24, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
There is a major misunderstanding of Jesus' conversation with the Samaritan woman in this piece. Jesus is cited as meaning the exact opposite of what he means. The purpose of Jesus' pointing out the Samaritan woman's marital situation(having 5 husbands and now living with another man) is precisely to point out the extremely unacceptable position she is in. It is a not a offhand comment on his part that shows no sign of disgust or condemnation! Anyone who knows anything about Palestinian historiography knows that poligamy and cohabitation were completely unacceptable in Jewish society. --Geminatea(0:46 EST July 13,2006)
The statement: "Such groups sometimes call cohabitation "living in sin", but this phrase is perhaps misleading as sin is not merely a matter of sexual behaviour. " seems to be logically confused. The phrase "living in sin" in no way implies that we are dealing "merely with sexual behavior." Because Christians believe cohabitation (an instance of sexual behavior outside of a Godly context) is sinful, they occasionally use the term "living in sin." There is no implication that this term referes merely to sexual bahavior. It deals with sexual bahavior within a specific context. -- Geminatea 1:02, 13 July 2006 (EST)
Among "Several common reasons that lead couples to decide to live together" not wanting to participate in marriage as the institution considered inacceptable (on the grounds of its historical burden of institutional violence over women, for example) or "just" bad and/or not neccessary, is not mentioned. I am aware of the (justified) absence of an ambition to give a complete description of cohabitation (indicated by the word "include"), but i feel this should not be omitted. Pappil 23:28, 18 December 2006 (UTC)lappip
From the Description: "In 2005, the U.S. Census Bureau reported 4.85 million cohabiting couples, up more than 1,000 percent from 1960, when there were 439,000 such couples. A 2000 study found that more than half of newlyweds lived together, at least briefly, before walking down the aisle."
A few comments about this:
1. The 1,000 percent should be removed -- I think a general rule of thumb is that if the percent is more than 100, then you need to reconsider expressing whatever it is as a percent (and for this case in particular, 4.85 million is 11 times as much as 439,000).
2. I think the stats are trying to show that there is a wider acceptance of cohabitation in the United States. However, saying that the raw number of cohabitating couples is 11 times more in 2000 than in 1960 does not necessarily show this. For instance, if the total US population is 11 times more in 2000 than in 1960, then really the number of cohabitating couples has remained the same. I'm not in any way suggesting that this is the case, I'm just illustrating that these raw numbers may suggest one conclusion, but the truth may be completely different.
3. These stats should be footnoted so that if anyone wants more detail, they can get it from the source (for instance, one might be curious as to the methodology for collecting and tabulating the data)
4. The stat that begins with "A 2000 study..." needs to be cited. I am very suspicious of any stat that starts with "A study from the year...", gives an interesting tidbit, and nothing else.
My inclination is to remove the paragraph completely until those issues are worked out. Thejacobian 22:24, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm not great at wikis, could someone look at this line?
"In Mexico, 18.7% of couples were cohabiting as of 2020"
Year 2020? -- 76.232.1.120 ( talk) 19:26, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/5840263/Couples-who-live-together-before-marriage-more-likely-to-get-divorced.html See page 393 of Intimate Relationships by Miller & Perlman Couples who start living together after they become engaged, and who cohabit for a shorter period of time do not divorce more frequently than do those who marry without living together. Stafford et al 2004. However, Casual cohabitation seems to lead to less respect for the institution of marriage, less favourable expectations and greater willingness to divorce McGinnis 2003. These are studies vs popular press surveys. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.93.112.22 ( talk) 00:29, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
What exactly is meant by "traditionally" in this opposition paragraph? The whole reason that common-law marriage exists is because so many people, over so many centuries, joined households without going through a specific religious or legal "now we are married" step. You just moved in, and announced to your friends that you considered yourself (as good as) married now. If you were poor, your equally poor neighbors weren't going to turn up their noses at you because you couldn't pay the fees for an official marriage license.
If we're going to keep this language, we need a good historical source for it. Otherwise, perhaps we could be a little less vague, and name a particular time and place when cohabiting was always considered poor form. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 20:21, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
While the content of the support section as it stands may be factual, it gives undue weight to a minority view. The father's and men's rights communities are active on the internet and in particular on sites like WP and forums like Reddit and Digg, but as a general cross-section of the population the truth is that most people are relatively unaware of what these communities believe or who they are. This isn't a criticism of their beliefs, mind -- lots of people with minority viewpoints, particular as concern civil rights and equality, have been vindicated as society becomes more progressive. The problem rather is that this is the *only* view given in the support section, and in that context it's not notable. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the majority of people who support cohabitation (and that would be most young people in the developed world these days) do not do so because of concern about men's rights. So that's the source of the undue complaint.
The other problem is OR. The section reads like it was written by a member of the men's rights or father's rights groups, who is detailing what he has found anecdotally to be the case in his own community. This is an example of a primary source, and WP doesn't use primary sources, we catalog secondary sources. What the editor who wrote this is saying may well be true about his own community, but per WP policy we try instead to quote what other, third parties (such as journalists or whatever) are saying. This is essentially like a guy writing an article about his own band. Eniagrom ( talk) 18:48, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
Is there a reason why there is no mention of how cohabitation restrictions were imposed by the US Federal Government on the Utah Territory with the Edmunds Act and later, similar measures were required as conditions for Utah to become a US State? How about how the cohabitation laws were vigorously enforced there to punish Mormons participating in polygamy while the law was not enforced on non-polygamous relationships? How about the currently legal status of Murphy v. Ramsey ( 114 U.S. 15 ( 1885)) in the United States and the likelihood of it currently being considered constitutional if challenged. -- 208.81.184.4 ( talk) 21:31, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
I think the subsections "Negative effects" and "Positive effects" need to be change to state the facts, i.e. "Increases divorce rates", "Decreases divorce rates". With the current headings it's impossible to tell who the effects are positive or negative for. Are they negative for cohabitators or the religious right? Are they positive for young cohabitators, old cohabitators, etc.
Perhaps a section called "Effects of cohabitation" with subsections on "divorce", "children", "money", and the like would serve the article better. Thoughts? -- Scochran4 ( talk) 01:24, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
This template might be better positioned at the top of the page, so other users are made aware that the article needs work. Then it might be more likely that citations are added. PurpleMousey ( talk) 19:00, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
Deleted. Entire section was cited by an editorial, opinion article on the New York Times. Section included non-objectively nor without sufficient data to conclude that females "think" are the basis of a cohabitation to an implied opinion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.43.51.210 ( talk) 17:03, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
Someone has added news articles mentioning peer-reviewed journal articles. I've added in more useful info with the papers the news articles cite, and info on the years that the surveys were run. The number of couples cohabiting in Western countries has changed significantly, along with statistics of divorce. Most people saying that couples are more likely to divorce are using data from before 1996, as noted in the recent surveys and journal articles I cite in the section. I've removed parts that were very POV and OR. Lots of the rest of the article, unfortunately, is conservative religious POV about perceptions of cohabiting couples, without data. Also lots of confusion between correlation and causation. -- Aronzak ( talk) 16:49, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
Removed this section: the psychpage source is very POV and has no peer reviewed source for the following claims that have been text dumped in:
On the whole, couples who cohabit are more likely to have a poorer financial picture because one partner is less likely to support the other partner financially. Statistically speaking, people who cohabit tend to live a shorter life because their partner are less likely to remind them about doctor's appointments or speak up about unhealthy behaviors or risks. Also unmarried men and women are more likely to commit a crime compared to married men and women.
(ref) Cohabitating and Domestic Partnership." PsychPage | …perspectives on psychology in daily life. N.p., n.d. Web. 21 Mar. 2012. Retrieved from http://www.psychpage.com/family/mod_couples_thx/cohabitation.html
If anyone has verifiable reliable sources for these claims, please add them with correctly cited references. -- Aronzak ( talk) 20:33, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
A lot of this page has inaccurate, POV, out of date figures, and conjecture and speculation from columns and opinion articles, lacking good sources. I've edited some sections to remove POV text and replace it with discussion of modern peer-reviewed research findings, more should be integrated from good quality sources such as these:
-- Aronzak ( talk) 20:56, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
This seems very POV, bordering on offensive. the cite: Murrow, Carrie; Lin Shi (2010). "The Influence of Cohabitation Purposes on Relationship Quality: An Examination in Dimensions". The American Journal of Family Therapy 38: 397–412. doi:10.1080/01/01926187.2010.513916.
Gives a bad DOI link and I think it should be removed as a source. If someone can find a link to the article with a working DOI they can add it back in later.
Cohabitation can be an alternative to marriage in situations where marriage is not able to happen for financial or other reasons, such as same-sex, some interracial or interreligious marriages. [1] Other reasons might include cohabitation as a way for polygamists or polyamorists to avoid breaking the law, a way to avoid the higher income taxes paid by some two-income married couples (in the United States), negative effects on pension payments (among older people), or seeing no need to marry. -- Aronzak ( talk) 12:19, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
References
The two statement under the "Reasons for Cohabitation" section contradict each other: "More than two-thirds of married couples in the US say that they lived together before getting married" and this sentence a few paragraphs down: "Today sixty percent of all marriages are preceded by a period of cohabitation" Reza789 ( talk) 09:50, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
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North American and European countries on the other hand, are expressly enumerated and have better coverage. I would like to make the Asian section similar in that regard. I can expand the part on the Philippines, as I am most familiar with that country and its laws. I encourage others to do the same with other Asian countries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Riverarvi ( talk • contribs) 19:28, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
Programs like TANF, SNAP, and Section 8 provide a financial disincentive to marriage. Why would this not be mentioned? Patrickferguson ( talk) 00:43, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
There needs to be more facts carrying this article. It seems to be lacking information, only noting the negative factors of cohabitation. There seems to be a lot of one-sided 'facts'. For example, children are more negatively affected with cohabitating parents than a single parent. There could be a lot of other factors mentioned. The same can be said for why cohabitation leads to higher divorce. Tmjimenez ( talk) 03:09, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 17 April 2023 and 17 July 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Emmalou72 ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Emmalou72 ( talk) 20:59, 14 June 2023 (UTC)