This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
There is a completely FALSE entry in the "flood" details of Alexandra. For the 1878 flood.. DID actually flood the lower portions of Alexandra. And until the higher flood of 1999 .. there was a PLAQUE .. in Tarbert Street.. MARKING THE NEAR ENOUGH EXACT SPOT.. That the waters had entered the lower end of Alexandra's MAIN STREET.
Therefore.. YOUR ENTRY IS TOTALLY INCORRECT.
re: [quote] A major flood in 1999 caused serious damage to river communities, especially Alexandra. The flooding in Alexandra was attributed to a rise in the riverbed, resulting from silt loading in the Roxburgh reservoir behind the Roxburgh Dam downriver from the town. The 1878 flood had not flooded the town, but the 1999 did, despite being only 80% of the volume of the 1878 flood. [2]. [unquote]
YES IT DID FLOOD INTO ALEXANDRA. How do I know? I have lived nearly all my life.. In & near to.. Alexandra. And my 99 yr old Dad.. has lived nearly all of HIS LIFE.. there too.
Plus: The NZ Governmental records.. ALSO PROVE THIS FOR A FACT.
Re: http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/1966/disasters-and-mishaps-flood-hazards/page-3 re: Clyde and Alexandra were flooded and the wide Manuherikia Valley resembled an inland sea. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.237.40.89 ( talk) 13:58, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
The data given here is INCORRECT, as the maximum recorded flood volume for Clutha / MataAu river during the November 1999 extreme flooding event has been OFFICIALLY established as being in excess of 5,100 cumecs. PLUS the greatest flood ever recorded in 1878 delivered a "massive" quantity of 5,700 cumecs into the lower reaches of the clutha river. re: [quote] South Island rivers
In the South Island, many major eastern rivers originate in the Southern Alps. Weather conditions in their mountain headwaters often produce floods in their lower reaches. The greatest flood ever observed on the Clutha River, New Zealand’s largest river in catchment area and volume of flow, occurred in 1878. It was the result of a succession of weather systems bringing in warm rain and warm wind, which melted the winter snow cover. At the height of this flood, more than 5,700 cubic metres of water poured down the lower reaches of the river near the coast every second.
[unquote]
Hence your INCORRECT assumption that the 2015 flood had a higher level when it was a mere trickle compared to the 5,100 cumecs during the 1999 flood event, or the 5,700 cumecs of the 1878 flood event. It is recorded here that at ALEXANDRA the flood was only 80% of the 1878 flood volume, however the total volume by the time it reached Balclutha was ADDED TO, by the volume of waters exiting other tributaries BELOW ALEXANDRA, (such as the Pomahaka River & the Teviot River) to create the full 51,000+ cumecs at Balclutha..
Also - somewhere in this article's main page, is reference to the 1878 flood that washed away the bridge at Clydevale, which was washed downstream, where it collided with the Balclutha Road Bridge, destroying the latter.
HOWEVER - absolutely NO MENTION has been made to the FACT, that as well as washing away the Clyde bridge (AND KILLING A BUTCHER WHO WAS CROSSING IT AT THE TIME) that Clyde bridge debris also washed away the bridge at Roxburgh when it's debris came hurtling down - during the same 1878 flood event. The "body" of the BUTCHER who died at Clyde, was washed up at Horseshoe Bend, downstream from Millers Flat, and was buried nearby at the site of the LONELY GRAVES.
So - a "lot" of your earlier entries here, DO NOT ACCURATELY RECORD THE FULL FACTS of the major flooding events of this river. 115.188.58.87 ( talk) 06:09, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. per discussion consensus and WP:NCNZ. There may be an ongoing discussion about changing that convention, but for now, the current guideline is how we adjudicate and close discussions. When/if that guideline changes to not support dual names here, this can be revisited. ( closed by non-admin page mover) — Shibbolethink ( ♔ ♕) 13:00, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
Clutha River → Clutha River / Mata-Au – official name [1], see Avon River / Ōtākaro for reference Gryffindor ( talk) 06:53, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
reflect[s] the consensus of the community. While these discussions are ongoing, I decline to present my own opinion on this proposed move. BilledMammal ( talk) 07:17, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Port Pegasus / Pikihatiti which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 02:03, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 01:30, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
Clutha River / Mata-Au → Clutha River – Per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:CONCISE. Ngrams shows no significant use of the dual name, Google News shows 210 results for the proposed title in the past year, compared to 15 results for the current title, and Google Scholar shows 191 results for the proposed title since 2018, compared to 33 results for the current title BilledMammal ( talk) 01:19, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
name most often used for this entity; the most
widely accepted name. It provides a list of sources that may be suitable for determining this, including
English-language news media,
Google Scholarresults, and
Google Ngram Viewer, and it's not clear why you are dismissing the fact that the vast majority of suitable sources prefer the proposed name over the current name. If you believe that these results are fallacious, can you explain why?
English-language news mediaand
Google Scholar. BilledMammal ( talk) 06:23, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
The New Zealand convensions on dual names clearly states that there has to be clear evidence that the second name has usage beyond mandatory official usage. Wikipedia also has clear guidelines on using common names over official names.
Because the article has been renamed against official guidelines I request that either clear sources be provided that the second name has common use, or that the article be renamed back to it's common name in line with both the aforementioned policies. Spekkios ( talk) 23:09, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
I'm going to go ahead and change this back to Clutha River / Mata-Au. There was a large discussion on the Wikipedia:New Zealand Wikipedians' notice board about dual names. Mata Au is clearly used in many sources and meets the criteria set out in Wikipedia:Naming conventions (New Zealand). If there is still desire for a move I suggest using the WP:RMCM process. ShakyIsles ( talk) 08:51, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
There is a completely FALSE entry in the "flood" details of Alexandra. For the 1878 flood.. DID actually flood the lower portions of Alexandra. And until the higher flood of 1999 .. there was a PLAQUE .. in Tarbert Street.. MARKING THE NEAR ENOUGH EXACT SPOT.. That the waters had entered the lower end of Alexandra's MAIN STREET.
Therefore.. YOUR ENTRY IS TOTALLY INCORRECT.
re: [quote] A major flood in 1999 caused serious damage to river communities, especially Alexandra. The flooding in Alexandra was attributed to a rise in the riverbed, resulting from silt loading in the Roxburgh reservoir behind the Roxburgh Dam downriver from the town. The 1878 flood had not flooded the town, but the 1999 did, despite being only 80% of the volume of the 1878 flood. [2]. [unquote]
YES IT DID FLOOD INTO ALEXANDRA. How do I know? I have lived nearly all my life.. In & near to.. Alexandra. And my 99 yr old Dad.. has lived nearly all of HIS LIFE.. there too.
Plus: The NZ Governmental records.. ALSO PROVE THIS FOR A FACT.
Re: http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/1966/disasters-and-mishaps-flood-hazards/page-3 re: Clyde and Alexandra were flooded and the wide Manuherikia Valley resembled an inland sea. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.237.40.89 ( talk) 13:58, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
The data given here is INCORRECT, as the maximum recorded flood volume for Clutha / MataAu river during the November 1999 extreme flooding event has been OFFICIALLY established as being in excess of 5,100 cumecs. PLUS the greatest flood ever recorded in 1878 delivered a "massive" quantity of 5,700 cumecs into the lower reaches of the clutha river. re: [quote] South Island rivers
In the South Island, many major eastern rivers originate in the Southern Alps. Weather conditions in their mountain headwaters often produce floods in their lower reaches. The greatest flood ever observed on the Clutha River, New Zealand’s largest river in catchment area and volume of flow, occurred in 1878. It was the result of a succession of weather systems bringing in warm rain and warm wind, which melted the winter snow cover. At the height of this flood, more than 5,700 cubic metres of water poured down the lower reaches of the river near the coast every second.
[unquote]
Hence your INCORRECT assumption that the 2015 flood had a higher level when it was a mere trickle compared to the 5,100 cumecs during the 1999 flood event, or the 5,700 cumecs of the 1878 flood event. It is recorded here that at ALEXANDRA the flood was only 80% of the 1878 flood volume, however the total volume by the time it reached Balclutha was ADDED TO, by the volume of waters exiting other tributaries BELOW ALEXANDRA, (such as the Pomahaka River & the Teviot River) to create the full 51,000+ cumecs at Balclutha..
Also - somewhere in this article's main page, is reference to the 1878 flood that washed away the bridge at Clydevale, which was washed downstream, where it collided with the Balclutha Road Bridge, destroying the latter.
HOWEVER - absolutely NO MENTION has been made to the FACT, that as well as washing away the Clyde bridge (AND KILLING A BUTCHER WHO WAS CROSSING IT AT THE TIME) that Clyde bridge debris also washed away the bridge at Roxburgh when it's debris came hurtling down - during the same 1878 flood event. The "body" of the BUTCHER who died at Clyde, was washed up at Horseshoe Bend, downstream from Millers Flat, and was buried nearby at the site of the LONELY GRAVES.
So - a "lot" of your earlier entries here, DO NOT ACCURATELY RECORD THE FULL FACTS of the major flooding events of this river. 115.188.58.87 ( talk) 06:09, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. per discussion consensus and WP:NCNZ. There may be an ongoing discussion about changing that convention, but for now, the current guideline is how we adjudicate and close discussions. When/if that guideline changes to not support dual names here, this can be revisited. ( closed by non-admin page mover) — Shibbolethink ( ♔ ♕) 13:00, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
Clutha River → Clutha River / Mata-Au – official name [1], see Avon River / Ōtākaro for reference Gryffindor ( talk) 06:53, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
reflect[s] the consensus of the community. While these discussions are ongoing, I decline to present my own opinion on this proposed move. BilledMammal ( talk) 07:17, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Port Pegasus / Pikihatiti which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 02:03, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 01:30, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
Clutha River / Mata-Au → Clutha River – Per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:CONCISE. Ngrams shows no significant use of the dual name, Google News shows 210 results for the proposed title in the past year, compared to 15 results for the current title, and Google Scholar shows 191 results for the proposed title since 2018, compared to 33 results for the current title BilledMammal ( talk) 01:19, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
name most often used for this entity; the most
widely accepted name. It provides a list of sources that may be suitable for determining this, including
English-language news media,
Google Scholarresults, and
Google Ngram Viewer, and it's not clear why you are dismissing the fact that the vast majority of suitable sources prefer the proposed name over the current name. If you believe that these results are fallacious, can you explain why?
English-language news mediaand
Google Scholar. BilledMammal ( talk) 06:23, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
The New Zealand convensions on dual names clearly states that there has to be clear evidence that the second name has usage beyond mandatory official usage. Wikipedia also has clear guidelines on using common names over official names.
Because the article has been renamed against official guidelines I request that either clear sources be provided that the second name has common use, or that the article be renamed back to it's common name in line with both the aforementioned policies. Spekkios ( talk) 23:09, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
I'm going to go ahead and change this back to Clutha River / Mata-Au. There was a large discussion on the Wikipedia:New Zealand Wikipedians' notice board about dual names. Mata Au is clearly used in many sources and meets the criteria set out in Wikipedia:Naming conventions (New Zealand). If there is still desire for a move I suggest using the WP:RMCM process. ShakyIsles ( talk) 08:51, 13 April 2021 (UTC)