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only word-initial clicks: Not true. Xhosa and Zulu have lots of words with clicks in the middle, such as iqaqa (some stinky mustelid), uqhoqhoqho(Z)/uqhoqhoqha(Xh) (larynx), and esanqoba.
I believe it says that no initial OR FINAL clicks. Since isiZulu and isiXhosa are Bantu languages, all words end either in a vowel or in a nasal consonant, not clicks.
Why not just use Unicode?
Hadza and Sandawe are languages, not "language groups", although if they are unrelated to any other language (and many linguists still regard them as Khoisan), they would by default be language _families_.
While the quote about the Kirshenbaum system is verbatim, I have a problem with the section of the quote that says that the clicks are infrequent in the languages most often discussed (more than 50% of all words in !Kung begin with a click). Also, the reference to "IPA diacritics" could be misleading; there are no diacritics, but there are four full characters for clicks. That aside, I don't see how t! in the Kirshenbaum system is any less ambiguous than // in SAMPA. The use of SAMPA // is fine in most languages that use clicks, because two unaspirated voiceless clicks cannot appear next to each other in the Khoisan or the Bantu languages that use them. thefamouseccles
Would it be possible for anyone to include a sound samples of these click consonants? I have read Manner_of_articulation, but as a north-american, I must say I am utterly incapable of following these instructions to make any sort of sound. UnHoly 23:22, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
i just added the data, will someone please fix it up to table format? Benwing 08:48, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
Added some ‡Hõã as well, but it's from one of L's old html pages, and thus ASCII, so the identities really need to be verified. For example, what seemed by its transcription to be a uvular ejective sounds like a uvular followed by glottal stop, so I counted it as that. But my ear isn't good enough to be able to tell with many of them, and the sound quality isn't great.
kwami 08:22, 2005 July 23 (UTC)
I am a South African and have never heard of a Southern African language called yeyi. If no one gets back to us soon I suggest we remove the listing.
please do not use "tenuis" as this is an obsolete term. Benwing 04:15, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
I had added ‡Hõã some time ago, but my source was not very reliable. (It might not even be the right language!) Can anyone verify? If not, we should probably delete these entries. Seems a shame, though. kwami 21:58, 2005 August 31 (UTC)
any info on the origins of click consonants? It seems clear how many consonants in many languages are formed, and how they all are related to easy sounds for a baby to make, "b, p, m, d, t, n, g, k, ng" but how do clicks originate? I've noted among the nonsense cooing of babies some clicks happen, but how were these transferred into language? Does the world proto-language include clicks? How did they arise? etc. etc. Could they be evidence of language evolving indepedently in different parts of the world? -- ChadThomson 05:20, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
So clicks are represented in IPA like this, and in ASCII renderings of IPA like that, but how do the respective languages' orthographies deal with clicks? I guess most, if not all of them use the Latin alphabet when written, and this would have to have been innovated since the Romans didn't use clicks. My non–South African layman's impression is that the Bantu languages featuring clicks tend to use Latin letters like Q or C, or digraphs as in 'Xhosa', while Khoisan languages tend to use (in addition, since they have more clicks?) 'letters' like //, !, ', etc. (Is // a letter or a digraph? A ligature? How are these strange glyphs collated, eg in a Namibian phone book?) Could anyone enlighten me and other readers on this subject?
Aren't we lucky not to have to use click consonants in everyday speech? They sound hard. 203.167.171.81 09:41, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't know if I'll have time to revise this page based on new research into the Nǀu language. See that page and Velaric ingressive for what I think needs doing. kwami 01:43, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
From the article: 'in Persian a click accompanied by tipping the head upwards signifies "no".'
Tipping the head upwards is the gesture used for "no" in Greece as well. My Greek teacher would tut as she did this - I don't know whether it was her habit (maybe showing disapproval that we, her students, had made a mistake) or if it is widespread in Greece (I don't remember hearing it when I've been in Greece), but, if the latter, possibly this is used elsewhere in (or maybe even throughout) south-eastern Europe and the Middle East. Is there any evidence for this? — Paul G 07:37, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm taking some guidance from WP:CITE. The style is chatty, not right for an academic presentation. Several assertions are dubious. There is redundancy. There is excess detail. The edits I just made just scratch the surface. Hurmata ( talk) 08:42, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Actually, about there being no evidence to support that clicks are ancient sounds, I found an article in the New York Times called "In Click Languages, an Echo of the Tongues of the Ancients" by Nicholas Wade on March 18, 2003, which says click sounds may be some of the oldest sounds in languages. Perhaps the ideas expressed there are significant enough to warrant noting on the article page? Captain Gamma ( talk) 01:16, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
While what the article currently says is true (click consonants aren't difficult to produce; children pick them up, etc.), I believe the real difficulty with clicks isn't producing them in isolation, but producing them as consonants in between vowels in the regular flow of speech. I wasn't sure if this needed a source to be added, but I feel it's relevant to the Difficulty section. 76.167.253.199 ( talk) 21:56, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
In the Competing orthographies table in the Transcription section, the character (U+F211) is used for Doke's bilabial click symbol. That character is non standard PUA and it probably not in most people's system fonts. Kwamikagami added this character in a modification on 6 May 2008 -- Moyogo/ (talk) 18:07, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
So, neither (formatted) nor (unformatted) display? Perhaps {{ IPA}} needs to be updated. — kwami ( talk) 19:43, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
Doke's symbol for the palatal doesn't show for me. What does it look like? And maybe it is a good idea to include an image. -- JorisvS ( talk) 07:54, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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only word-initial clicks: Not true. Xhosa and Zulu have lots of words with clicks in the middle, such as iqaqa (some stinky mustelid), uqhoqhoqho(Z)/uqhoqhoqha(Xh) (larynx), and esanqoba.
I believe it says that no initial OR FINAL clicks. Since isiZulu and isiXhosa are Bantu languages, all words end either in a vowel or in a nasal consonant, not clicks.
Why not just use Unicode?
Hadza and Sandawe are languages, not "language groups", although if they are unrelated to any other language (and many linguists still regard them as Khoisan), they would by default be language _families_.
While the quote about the Kirshenbaum system is verbatim, I have a problem with the section of the quote that says that the clicks are infrequent in the languages most often discussed (more than 50% of all words in !Kung begin with a click). Also, the reference to "IPA diacritics" could be misleading; there are no diacritics, but there are four full characters for clicks. That aside, I don't see how t! in the Kirshenbaum system is any less ambiguous than // in SAMPA. The use of SAMPA // is fine in most languages that use clicks, because two unaspirated voiceless clicks cannot appear next to each other in the Khoisan or the Bantu languages that use them. thefamouseccles
Would it be possible for anyone to include a sound samples of these click consonants? I have read Manner_of_articulation, but as a north-american, I must say I am utterly incapable of following these instructions to make any sort of sound. UnHoly 23:22, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
i just added the data, will someone please fix it up to table format? Benwing 08:48, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
Added some ‡Hõã as well, but it's from one of L's old html pages, and thus ASCII, so the identities really need to be verified. For example, what seemed by its transcription to be a uvular ejective sounds like a uvular followed by glottal stop, so I counted it as that. But my ear isn't good enough to be able to tell with many of them, and the sound quality isn't great.
kwami 08:22, 2005 July 23 (UTC)
I am a South African and have never heard of a Southern African language called yeyi. If no one gets back to us soon I suggest we remove the listing.
please do not use "tenuis" as this is an obsolete term. Benwing 04:15, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
I had added ‡Hõã some time ago, but my source was not very reliable. (It might not even be the right language!) Can anyone verify? If not, we should probably delete these entries. Seems a shame, though. kwami 21:58, 2005 August 31 (UTC)
any info on the origins of click consonants? It seems clear how many consonants in many languages are formed, and how they all are related to easy sounds for a baby to make, "b, p, m, d, t, n, g, k, ng" but how do clicks originate? I've noted among the nonsense cooing of babies some clicks happen, but how were these transferred into language? Does the world proto-language include clicks? How did they arise? etc. etc. Could they be evidence of language evolving indepedently in different parts of the world? -- ChadThomson 05:20, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
So clicks are represented in IPA like this, and in ASCII renderings of IPA like that, but how do the respective languages' orthographies deal with clicks? I guess most, if not all of them use the Latin alphabet when written, and this would have to have been innovated since the Romans didn't use clicks. My non–South African layman's impression is that the Bantu languages featuring clicks tend to use Latin letters like Q or C, or digraphs as in 'Xhosa', while Khoisan languages tend to use (in addition, since they have more clicks?) 'letters' like //, !, ', etc. (Is // a letter or a digraph? A ligature? How are these strange glyphs collated, eg in a Namibian phone book?) Could anyone enlighten me and other readers on this subject?
Aren't we lucky not to have to use click consonants in everyday speech? They sound hard. 203.167.171.81 09:41, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't know if I'll have time to revise this page based on new research into the Nǀu language. See that page and Velaric ingressive for what I think needs doing. kwami 01:43, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
From the article: 'in Persian a click accompanied by tipping the head upwards signifies "no".'
Tipping the head upwards is the gesture used for "no" in Greece as well. My Greek teacher would tut as she did this - I don't know whether it was her habit (maybe showing disapproval that we, her students, had made a mistake) or if it is widespread in Greece (I don't remember hearing it when I've been in Greece), but, if the latter, possibly this is used elsewhere in (or maybe even throughout) south-eastern Europe and the Middle East. Is there any evidence for this? — Paul G 07:37, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm taking some guidance from WP:CITE. The style is chatty, not right for an academic presentation. Several assertions are dubious. There is redundancy. There is excess detail. The edits I just made just scratch the surface. Hurmata ( talk) 08:42, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Actually, about there being no evidence to support that clicks are ancient sounds, I found an article in the New York Times called "In Click Languages, an Echo of the Tongues of the Ancients" by Nicholas Wade on March 18, 2003, which says click sounds may be some of the oldest sounds in languages. Perhaps the ideas expressed there are significant enough to warrant noting on the article page? Captain Gamma ( talk) 01:16, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
While what the article currently says is true (click consonants aren't difficult to produce; children pick them up, etc.), I believe the real difficulty with clicks isn't producing them in isolation, but producing them as consonants in between vowels in the regular flow of speech. I wasn't sure if this needed a source to be added, but I feel it's relevant to the Difficulty section. 76.167.253.199 ( talk) 21:56, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
In the Competing orthographies table in the Transcription section, the character (U+F211) is used for Doke's bilabial click symbol. That character is non standard PUA and it probably not in most people's system fonts. Kwamikagami added this character in a modification on 6 May 2008 -- Moyogo/ (talk) 18:07, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
So, neither (formatted) nor (unformatted) display? Perhaps {{ IPA}} needs to be updated. — kwami ( talk) 19:43, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
Doke's symbol for the palatal doesn't show for me. What does it look like? And maybe it is a good idea to include an image. -- JorisvS ( talk) 07:54, 4 May 2015 (UTC)