![]() | Cleomenean War is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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This could use several improvements besides a copyedit.
Also Project Perseus doesn't have the lives of Agis or Cleomenes so I will use Attalus. Plus the heavy use of Plutarch is because he is the only primary source of the first few years of the war. Kyriakos 06:38, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm doing a copyedit at the request of Kyriakos, so here are some notes on larger things (and items I don't feel comfortable changing) as I come across them. Let me say that I'm enjoying the article very much; it's very comprehensive, and filled with good information. (I used to play on the Achaea MUD, so I'm delighted to learn of its name's origin.)
Any questions presented are out of my total ignorance of the subject matter. Please feel free to undo any copyedits I make in the article itself (so long as there's a good reason).
More to come. I hope this is useful. Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns. Good luck with the article! –
Scartol ·
Talk
15:49, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the copy edit and for the review. I greatly appreciate it and I have fixed all the points you have made. Kyriakos 11:26, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Could you perhaps better distinguish between the assessments of modern historians and what the ancients did and said. sometimes the changes are rather abrupt and I wonder what Smith sat in the Achaean war council. Wandalstouring ( talk) 14:42, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I didn't get back to the FAC in time. There's a problem with your short citation of Hammond as you have two Hammond texts in the references. Your final secondary source has a bad space in its publisher. I would not oppose the current citation of this article, adequate secondary sources are cited; and, as a result I strongly encourage you to bring it back to FAC after the necessary time delay and/or checking with the FAC closers. (Please fix the Hammond thing before bringing it back, its unclear which of his two works you're citing :). Fifelfoo ( talk) 04:54, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
As I'm putting the maps together, I've been reviewing and researching the article, and I ran up against a few questions.
"In 229 BC, Cleomenes took the important cities Tegea, Mantineia, Caphyae and Orchomenus in Arcadia, who had by then allied themselves with the Aetolian League, a powerful Greek confederation of city states in central Greece.
I think that these cities could have been allied to the Achaean League before defecting to the Aetolian League. The Achaeans and the Aetolians had a very turbulent relationship being allied at various states before being at war with each other such as the Battle of Caphyae.
"Efforts from inside the city failed . . . "
"Around this time, the Achaean League sent an army under a new strategos—Aristomachos of Argos, who had been elected in May of 228 BC—to meet Cleomenes in battle. The Achaean army of 20,000 infantry and 1,000 cavalry advanced on the 5,000-strong Spartan army at Pallantium. Aratus, who had accompanied Aristomachus, advised him to retreat because even 20,000 Achaeans were no match for 5,000 Spartans."
Hope you don't mind, MapMaster ( talk) 05:47, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
I don't mind at all. Whatever can make the article better to read is great. Kyriakos ( talk) 22:36, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
"Despite numerous attempts to break through the defensive line and reach Lechaeum, Antigonus' force failed and suffered considerable losses. These defeats took such a toll on Antigonus that he considered advancing his attack of the palisade and moving his army to Sicyon."
Google Books is unfortunately unreliable as an archive, books that are available for viewing today become unavailable tomorrow, with no rhyme or reason. They are not in the business of being a library or archive. For books in the public domain (PD), the best long term archive is Internet Archive, a non profit that actually has more PD books online than Google, 5 million or so with around 1000 new a day, and of better image quality. IA has all the PD books listed in this article's source section (I believe), it would be first choice for linking as a source. Green Cardamom ( talk) 03:34, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
A little hole that could use filling here: Was the purchase of freedom by the helots one of the reforms that was revoked? Or did they really stay free? Were they neodamodes, perioeci? Wnt ( talk) 22:34, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
Article should be delisted due to its vast reliance on ancient sources, especially Plutarch and Polybius. This was already pointed out during the 1st FAC, but ignored in the 2nd. T8612 (talk) 16:19, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
![]() | Cleomenean War is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on May 9, 2012. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article is rated A-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This could use several improvements besides a copyedit.
Also Project Perseus doesn't have the lives of Agis or Cleomenes so I will use Attalus. Plus the heavy use of Plutarch is because he is the only primary source of the first few years of the war. Kyriakos 06:38, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm doing a copyedit at the request of Kyriakos, so here are some notes on larger things (and items I don't feel comfortable changing) as I come across them. Let me say that I'm enjoying the article very much; it's very comprehensive, and filled with good information. (I used to play on the Achaea MUD, so I'm delighted to learn of its name's origin.)
Any questions presented are out of my total ignorance of the subject matter. Please feel free to undo any copyedits I make in the article itself (so long as there's a good reason).
More to come. I hope this is useful. Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns. Good luck with the article! –
Scartol ·
Talk
15:49, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the copy edit and for the review. I greatly appreciate it and I have fixed all the points you have made. Kyriakos 11:26, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Could you perhaps better distinguish between the assessments of modern historians and what the ancients did and said. sometimes the changes are rather abrupt and I wonder what Smith sat in the Achaean war council. Wandalstouring ( talk) 14:42, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I didn't get back to the FAC in time. There's a problem with your short citation of Hammond as you have two Hammond texts in the references. Your final secondary source has a bad space in its publisher. I would not oppose the current citation of this article, adequate secondary sources are cited; and, as a result I strongly encourage you to bring it back to FAC after the necessary time delay and/or checking with the FAC closers. (Please fix the Hammond thing before bringing it back, its unclear which of his two works you're citing :). Fifelfoo ( talk) 04:54, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
As I'm putting the maps together, I've been reviewing and researching the article, and I ran up against a few questions.
"In 229 BC, Cleomenes took the important cities Tegea, Mantineia, Caphyae and Orchomenus in Arcadia, who had by then allied themselves with the Aetolian League, a powerful Greek confederation of city states in central Greece.
I think that these cities could have been allied to the Achaean League before defecting to the Aetolian League. The Achaeans and the Aetolians had a very turbulent relationship being allied at various states before being at war with each other such as the Battle of Caphyae.
"Efforts from inside the city failed . . . "
"Around this time, the Achaean League sent an army under a new strategos—Aristomachos of Argos, who had been elected in May of 228 BC—to meet Cleomenes in battle. The Achaean army of 20,000 infantry and 1,000 cavalry advanced on the 5,000-strong Spartan army at Pallantium. Aratus, who had accompanied Aristomachus, advised him to retreat because even 20,000 Achaeans were no match for 5,000 Spartans."
Hope you don't mind, MapMaster ( talk) 05:47, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
I don't mind at all. Whatever can make the article better to read is great. Kyriakos ( talk) 22:36, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
"Despite numerous attempts to break through the defensive line and reach Lechaeum, Antigonus' force failed and suffered considerable losses. These defeats took such a toll on Antigonus that he considered advancing his attack of the palisade and moving his army to Sicyon."
Google Books is unfortunately unreliable as an archive, books that are available for viewing today become unavailable tomorrow, with no rhyme or reason. They are not in the business of being a library or archive. For books in the public domain (PD), the best long term archive is Internet Archive, a non profit that actually has more PD books online than Google, 5 million or so with around 1000 new a day, and of better image quality. IA has all the PD books listed in this article's source section (I believe), it would be first choice for linking as a source. Green Cardamom ( talk) 03:34, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
A little hole that could use filling here: Was the purchase of freedom by the helots one of the reforms that was revoked? Or did they really stay free? Were they neodamodes, perioeci? Wnt ( talk) 22:34, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
Article should be delisted due to its vast reliance on ancient sources, especially Plutarch and Polybius. This was already pointed out during the 1st FAC, but ignored in the 2nd. T8612 (talk) 16:19, 9 May 2021 (UTC)