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The Garveyite movement was "contradictory" and consisted of "defeatism"? I think that's a little too biased of a description. How can having a revolutionist mindset in the context of separatist context constitute "defeatism". Far too many people place an emphasis on Marcus Garvey's "back to Africa" aspects, but Garvey wasn't proposing that African Americans simply give up and return to Africa. Rather, like Malcolm X, he was proposing economic independence. In fact, Garvey loved Haiti and Jamaica, as he felt these were areas where blacks could take over and successfully achieve pure independence from the white man, outside of apartheid and Jim Crow. In many ways, his ideas were more activist and revolutionary than that of Martin Luther King Jr.'s. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.196.86.161 ( talk) 11:08, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:African-American Civil Rights Movement (1954–68) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 07:44, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
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I am proposing to merge this article to Jim Crow Era. That term is the closest WP:COMMONNAME to denote this period of time. Nor, does that period limit itself solely to the experiences of African Americans. I am also proposing to merge Nadir of American race relations, Disenfranchisement after the Reconstruction Era, and Jim Crow laws to Jim Crow Era. See Pageviews Analysis from 10/2/2015 to 3/11/2016 of the four terms. Mitchumch ( talk) 06:40, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
ADDENDUM: African-American Civil Rights Movement (1865–95) is also being proposed to merge into Reconstruction Era and Jim Crow Era. For a separate discussion on that merge, please see Talk:African-American Civil Rights Movement (1865–95)#Merge discussion in progress. Mitchumch ( talk) 03:50, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
WP:COMMONNAME is irrelevant to this conversation. Jim Crow era refers to a period of time; this article is about a movement that occurred within this era. Lockley is clearly on point in all of his arguments. These articles may have overlap, but the solution is not to eliminate the articles in favor of some unwritten article. The first thing to do is write the Jim Crow Era article. I'm guessing, based on the material already available in the proposed deleted articles, that this is going to be a pretty good sized article. Those sections in the new article which overlap with these existing articles should be written as summaries of these articles (see Wikipedia:Summary style).
I'm also curious why you picked these particular articles to eliminate. For example, a key player in this whole era, as it relates to race, is the Ku Klux Klan. Why eliminate an article dedicated to the Civil Rights movement while keeping an article about this racist, violent organization? Or why not, going in the direction you seem to favor, eliminate all the topics found at the template "African American topics"? Tom (North Shoreman) ( talk) 17:51, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
@ Mitchumch:, this is a good discussion. I don't think your merge proposal is going to make it. It would be a shame to walk away from what we've discovered here. So I have a counterproposal which, I think, addresses the concerns that you started with.
Let's establish United States race relations (1865-1876), United States race relations (1877-1895), United States race relations (1896-1954), and United States race relations (1954-2007). And merge the five existing articles you named into those targets. The scope of these new articles would be national. We would leave Reconstruction Era as it is, with its focus on the south, covering everything about that era not directly related to race relations.
I believe the phrase "race relations" is neutral, encyclopedia, and would emcompass de jure discrimination, important racial incidents, social standing, etc., for African-Americans AND Asians, Hispanics, American Indians, everybody. We've discussed the overlaps in this whole area but we haven't even mentioned some of the large gaps. (The treatment of Chinese on the west coast, the deliberate coordination of the southern states to overturn Reconstruction, etc.) I think this scheme would be a good top-down way to provide a framework for that. This scheme would address @ Rjensen:'s (and my) concerns about the size and scope of the resulting articles. Tell me what you think. All best. Lockley ( talk) 21:21, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
Since everyone is opposed to both proposals, then here is a counterproposal.
Mitchumch ( talk) 07:31, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
I'm not going to pretend to have read this entire page, but fwiw I think we need to have a separate article that specifically explains what people mean by the "nadir" of black history. It's a phrase that comes up a lot. Rosekelleher ( talk) 16:41, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
I just skimmed this discussion, and it seems that this proposal is defeated, so I'm going to remove the tag from the article. I hope that doesn't violate some protocol. Klortho ( talk) 04:11, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
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There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:African-American Civil Rights Movement (1954–1968) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 14:16, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
Old, old sources that are not just out of date but represent a historical POV that is either fringe, incorrect, or just wrong. The idea that communists were responsible for the civil rights wins is just one example, and this is an old JBS/evangelical Christian canard that should be removed. Viriditas ( talk) 01:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
What is meant by civil society protest 160.119.221.2 ( talk) 12:12, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
This is the
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Civil rights movement (1896–1954) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Archives: 1 |
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The Garveyite movement was "contradictory" and consisted of "defeatism"? I think that's a little too biased of a description. How can having a revolutionist mindset in the context of separatist context constitute "defeatism". Far too many people place an emphasis on Marcus Garvey's "back to Africa" aspects, but Garvey wasn't proposing that African Americans simply give up and return to Africa. Rather, like Malcolm X, he was proposing economic independence. In fact, Garvey loved Haiti and Jamaica, as he felt these were areas where blacks could take over and successfully achieve pure independence from the white man, outside of apartheid and Jim Crow. In many ways, his ideas were more activist and revolutionary than that of Martin Luther King Jr.'s. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.196.86.161 ( talk) 11:08, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:African-American Civil Rights Movement (1954–68) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 07:44, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
African-American Civil Rights Movement (1896–1954). Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 20:31, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
I am proposing to merge this article to Jim Crow Era. That term is the closest WP:COMMONNAME to denote this period of time. Nor, does that period limit itself solely to the experiences of African Americans. I am also proposing to merge Nadir of American race relations, Disenfranchisement after the Reconstruction Era, and Jim Crow laws to Jim Crow Era. See Pageviews Analysis from 10/2/2015 to 3/11/2016 of the four terms. Mitchumch ( talk) 06:40, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
ADDENDUM: African-American Civil Rights Movement (1865–95) is also being proposed to merge into Reconstruction Era and Jim Crow Era. For a separate discussion on that merge, please see Talk:African-American Civil Rights Movement (1865–95)#Merge discussion in progress. Mitchumch ( talk) 03:50, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
WP:COMMONNAME is irrelevant to this conversation. Jim Crow era refers to a period of time; this article is about a movement that occurred within this era. Lockley is clearly on point in all of his arguments. These articles may have overlap, but the solution is not to eliminate the articles in favor of some unwritten article. The first thing to do is write the Jim Crow Era article. I'm guessing, based on the material already available in the proposed deleted articles, that this is going to be a pretty good sized article. Those sections in the new article which overlap with these existing articles should be written as summaries of these articles (see Wikipedia:Summary style).
I'm also curious why you picked these particular articles to eliminate. For example, a key player in this whole era, as it relates to race, is the Ku Klux Klan. Why eliminate an article dedicated to the Civil Rights movement while keeping an article about this racist, violent organization? Or why not, going in the direction you seem to favor, eliminate all the topics found at the template "African American topics"? Tom (North Shoreman) ( talk) 17:51, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
@ Mitchumch:, this is a good discussion. I don't think your merge proposal is going to make it. It would be a shame to walk away from what we've discovered here. So I have a counterproposal which, I think, addresses the concerns that you started with.
Let's establish United States race relations (1865-1876), United States race relations (1877-1895), United States race relations (1896-1954), and United States race relations (1954-2007). And merge the five existing articles you named into those targets. The scope of these new articles would be national. We would leave Reconstruction Era as it is, with its focus on the south, covering everything about that era not directly related to race relations.
I believe the phrase "race relations" is neutral, encyclopedia, and would emcompass de jure discrimination, important racial incidents, social standing, etc., for African-Americans AND Asians, Hispanics, American Indians, everybody. We've discussed the overlaps in this whole area but we haven't even mentioned some of the large gaps. (The treatment of Chinese on the west coast, the deliberate coordination of the southern states to overturn Reconstruction, etc.) I think this scheme would be a good top-down way to provide a framework for that. This scheme would address @ Rjensen:'s (and my) concerns about the size and scope of the resulting articles. Tell me what you think. All best. Lockley ( talk) 21:21, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
Since everyone is opposed to both proposals, then here is a counterproposal.
Mitchumch ( talk) 07:31, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
I'm not going to pretend to have read this entire page, but fwiw I think we need to have a separate article that specifically explains what people mean by the "nadir" of black history. It's a phrase that comes up a lot. Rosekelleher ( talk) 16:41, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
I just skimmed this discussion, and it seems that this proposal is defeated, so I'm going to remove the tag from the article. I hope that doesn't violate some protocol. Klortho ( talk) 04:11, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on African-American Civil Rights Movement (1896–1954). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:39, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:African-American Civil Rights Movement (1954–1968) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 14:16, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
Old, old sources that are not just out of date but represent a historical POV that is either fringe, incorrect, or just wrong. The idea that communists were responsible for the civil rights wins is just one example, and this is an old JBS/evangelical Christian canard that should be removed. Viriditas ( talk) 01:59, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
What is meant by civil society protest 160.119.221.2 ( talk) 12:12, 1 May 2023 (UTC)